The Pug’s motto in Latin is “multum en parvo.” This means “a lot in a little.” Tulip filled up our house with attitude and curiosity. We will miss her.
Yesterday was a difficult day for me. We knew something was terribly wrong with Tulip, one of our rescue pugs who was almost 13. She hadn’t eaten for four days. The labs came back, and we knew that she would not survive with any quality of life. So, my excellent veterinarians helped us to escort her out of this life. She was our prettiest pug with a spunky attitude. I tried to carry her into the animal hospital, but she fussed and, with great dignity, walked in on her own steam. I am grateful God created her because she was one of a kind. I decided to post her picture because she deserves more recognition than Jared Woodfill or Paul Pressler.
If you already know their stories, skip to the end. I ask some difficult questions about them and their activities. I hope you can answer them.
Let me start this post by saying that the word alleged belongs in front of all that I say or quote. However, I believe that Paul Pressler did sexually abuse individuals and that Jared Woodfill covered for or even helped him acquire potential victims. This is based on the following quotes from an investigation by various media sources. Some people would sue at the drop of a hat when it involves wealthy or influential people.
Jared Woodfill appears to have lost his election bid, and I temporarily remove my ban on discussing politics since it involves accusations of sex abuse coverup.
I think the post speaks for itself. The Texas Tribune reported that Houston Rep. Lacey Hull defeated Paxton-backed Jared Woodfill in the GOP primary. Perhaps the subtitle will help.
Woodfill’s endorsement by Paxton was decried by some Republicans because of his close ties to Southern Baptist leader Paul Pressler, who has been accused multiple times of sexual abuse.
The following quote from the post says it all.
Woodfill entered the race while still involved in a high-profile lawsuit that accused his former law partner, Southern Baptist leader Paul Pressler, of decades of rape. Woodfill was also accused of enabling Pressler’s behavior and, in a deposition last year, acknowledged that he continued to pay young men to work out of Pressler’s home for years despite being told in 2004 that Pressler had sexually abused a child. Before the lawsuit was settled late last year, a 2017 email was also unearthed in which one of Pressler’s aides — who was being paid by Woodfill — warned that the religious leader was a pedophile.
At this point, Dee thanked God that sometimes the people get the vote right (in her eyes.) Let’s take a closer look at the relationship between Woodfill and Pressler. When Dee first moved to the South, she was excited to be among many professed Christians and see many churches. When I became a Christian, I knew no other Protestant Christians among my friends and family. My Dad was nominally a member of the Russian Orthodox Church. There were many Catholics, but the ones in my area were not interested in evangelical pursuits then. It was a relief when I finally found a large group of evangelical Christians. We weren’t beholden to a particular denomination.
So Dee, ill-informed, was taken by all of the Southern churches, mostly SBC, of course. As time went on, I began to see the reality that claiming a faith is not the same as living out one’s faith. In other words, I was bamboozled. I learned that:
Many SBC Churches+Many “Saved” Christians ≠ A Vibrant Christian Faith
The dilemma: Are Paul Pressler and Jared Woodfill’s activities indicative of the Christian faith?
I know that all Christians struggle with sin. I also know that Christians are trained to associate “Being a Leader” with “Being a Role Model” Christian. How do we, as Christians, deal with the “leadership” of Paul Pressler and Jared Woodfill?
On the one hand, there is Paul Pressler. Christianity Today wrote Paul Pressler’s Case Haunts Southern Baptist Abuse Reform.
As one of the architects of the Conservative Resurgence that reshaped the largest US Protestant denomination beginning in the 1970s, he has been hailed for decades as a hero who helped rid SBC churches of a creeping liberalism.
But recently, Gene Besen, a lawyer for the SBC, called Pressler, 93, a “monster” and “a dangerous predator” who leveraged his “power and false piety” to sexually abuse young men even as he was building his reputation as a conservative reformer.
“The man’s actions are of the devil,” Besen said, clarifying that he spoke in his personal capacity and not as a representative of the denomination. “That is clear.”
…What makes Pressler’s case so enraging to many Southern Baptists, however, is that his abuse has been detailed for year
…In 2004, the year Pressler was first elected vice president, his home church warned in a letter about his habit of naked hot-tubbing with young men after a college student complained that Pressler had allegedly groped him, according to the Texas Tribune. That same year, Pressler agreed to pay $450,000 to settle Rollins’ earlier claim that Pressler had assaulted him in a hotel room.
According to Danny Akin, the conservative resurgence is still valid, as is the reality of the accusations against Pressler. But is the resurgence about theology or something else?
After the Rollins lawsuit was settled in December, Danny Akin, the longtime president of Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary, told RNS, “We can’t deny the reality of the accusations. You’ve got too many people stacked up that were ready to testify.”
But Akin said he still believes in the ideals of the resurgence. He said that Southern Baptists will need to acknowledge their sins and abuse when teaching about the Conservative Resurgence.
Karen Swallow Prior says the resurgence is about power. She is correct. Wasn’t Paul Pressler’s sexual abuse really about the abuse of power?
Karen Swallow Prior, a professor of English who has taught in evangelical Christian schools for decades, said the SBC can’t escape the failings of the Conservative Resurgence. She said she became a Southern Baptist because she believed the resurgence was about the Bible. Now she suspects that it was about power.
“It’s the convenient myth that the SBC has told us for the past several decades,” she said.
What was the extent of Pressler’s alleged sexual abuse?
According to Wikipedia:
In April 2018, the Houston Chronicle reported that Paul Pressler was accused by Toby Twining and Brooks Schott of sexual misconduct in separate court affidavits.[7] Both men said Pressler molested or solicited them for sex. The accusations were filed as part of a lawsuit filed in 2017 by Gareld Duane Rollins Jr. claiming he was regularly raped by the conservative leader. Rollins met Pressler in high school and was part of a Bible study Pressler led. Rollins claims he was raped two to three times a month while at Pressler’s home.[8] According to the Chronicle, Pressler agreed in 2004 to pay $450,000 to Rollins for physical assault.[9] Southern Baptist leader Paige Patterson is also named in the suit, for helping Pressler cover up the abuse.[10] The SBC settled the Rollins case out of court for an undisclosed sum and the case was dismissed with prejudice on December 28, 2023.[11]
In the 2018 Chronicle report, Toby Twining was a teenager in 1977 when Pressler grabbed his penis in a sauna at Houston’s River Oaks Country Club. Pressler was a youth pastor at Bethel Church in Houston but was ousted in 1978 after church officials received information about “an alleged incident.”
…n May 2022, Guidepost Solutions released an independent report stating that Pressler was the defendant in a civil lawsuit alleging that he repeatedly abused the plaintiff beginning when the plaintiff was 14. Two other men submitted affidavits accusing Pressler of sexual misconduct.[13]
According to the Texas Tribune, Pressler’s abuse went on for 40 years!
Rollins’ lawsuit also uncovered a 40-year pattern of alleged abuses by Pressler. As part of the suit, a former member of Pressler’s youth group said in a sworn affidavit that Pressler molested him in 1977 while the two were in a sauna at the country club in Houston’s tony River Oaks neighborhood.
In other words, if the allegations are true, and I believe they are, the amount of abuse perpetrated by one man is overwhelming. This comes as no surprise to many. The stories are out there, and there is little value in ignoring them. Pressler has allegedly harmed many.
Jared Woodfill is credibly accused, in my opinion, of enabling Paul Pressler’s prolific abuse history, but he denies that he did so.
As you read the following, ask yourself if Woodfill participated in an effort to procure “young men” for Pressler. According to the Texas Tribune as reported in Email sheds new light on Texas House candidate Jared Woodfill’s role in Southern Baptist leader’s sex abuse scandal, testimony from Woodfiil, Pressler did almost no work for the firm.
In March, The Texas Tribune reported that Woodfill had recently testified under oath that he was made aware of child sexual abuse claims against Pressler in 2004, when the two of them were law partners. Despite that, Woodfill continued to lean on the political connections of Pressler — who did almost no work for their firm but was compensated via a string of young, male personal assistants who worked out of his home. Three have accused Pressler of sexual assault or misconduct.
The newly-unearthed email shows that Woodfill continued to furnish Pressler with young aides until at least 2017 — 13 years after he was first warned that Pressler was a sexual predator, and less than a year after he was made aware of new sexual misconduct allegations.
In 2004, Woodfill admits he received an email procured by the Texas Tribune, which discussed Pressler’s abuse. The Tribune documented this in Houston GOP activist knew for years of child sex abuse claims against Southern Baptist leader, law partner.
In 2016, former Harris County GOP chair Jared Woodfill received an urgent warning about Paul Pressler, his longtime law partner and a Southern Baptist leader. In an email, a 25-year-old attorney from Woodfill’s Houston firm said he’d recently gone to lunch with Pressler, who told him “lewd stories about being naked on beaches with young men” and then invited him to skinny-dip at his ranch.
Initially, Woodfill claimed he knew nothing, saw nothing, etc. He even responded with indignation!
He responded to the young man’s request for help with shock and indignation. “This 85-year-old man has never made any inappropriate comments or actions toward me or any one I know of,” he wrote of Pressler at the time.
Well, not exactly…
In recent sworn testimony, Woodfill said he’d known since 2004 of an allegation that Pressler had sexually abused a child. Woodfill learned of those claims, he said, during mediation of an assault lawsuit filed against Pressler that he helped quietly settle for nearly a half-million dollars at the time.
Woodfill apparently continued to provide young men to be aides to Pressler. These young men had to work for Pressler in his home…
Despite his knowledge of the accusation, Woodfill continued to work with Pressler for nearly a decade — leaning on Pressler’s name and reputation to bolster their firm, Woodfill & Pressler LLP.
Rather than pay him a salary, Woodfill testified, the firm provided Pressler a string of employees to serve as personal assistants, most of them young men who typically worked out of his River Oaks mansion. Two have accused Pressler of sexual assault or misconduct.
In a TWW post, we noted that Pressler allegedly brought scantily clad men to the offices, having them parade around in view of others.
Woodfill similarly downplayed sexual misconduct allegations in 2016, after a 25-year-old lawyer at his firm alerted Woodfill that Pressler had told him “lewd stories about being naked on beaches with young men” and then invited him to skinny-dip at his ranch, court records show. The attorney said he addressed the incident with a longtime employee of Woodfill’s law firm, who made it clear that this was not the first time he’d heard such allegations.
“I discovered that this was not unusual behavior for Pressler, and that he had a long history of lecherous behavior towards young men. Even going as far as bringing scantily clad men and parading them through the office,” the attorney wrote in an affidavit that was filed as part of Rollins’ lawsuit.
Pressler continued to work with Woodfill despite procuring few cases. Pressler seemed to only want these young men to help him.
Despite his knowledge of the accusation, Woodfill continued to work with Pressler for nearly a decade — leaning on Pressler’s name and reputation to bolster their firm, Woodfill & Pressler LLP.
Rather than pay him a salary, Woodfill testified, the firm provided Pressler a string of employees to serve as personal assistants, most of them young men who typically worked out of his River Oaks mansion. Two have accused Pressler of sexual assault or misconduct.
Pressler was once ousted from a Houston Church due to his ‘activities.”
Released over the last few weeks, the thousands of pages of new court records show how Woodfill leaned on his Pressler connections to bolster his political and legal career — despite warnings about his law partner’s behavior. And they shed new light on how Pressler, a former Texas Court of Appeals judge and one-time White House nominee under George H.W. Bush, allegedly used his prestige and influence to evade responsibility amid repeated accusations of sexual misconduct and assault dating back to at least 1978, when he was forced out of a Houston church for allegedly molesting a teenager in a sauna.
Recently, TWW posted Stunned and Disgusted: SBC Executive Committee Settles Lawsuit, Allegedly Covering Up the Alleged Despicable Abuse by Paul Pressler. #ThisistheSBC.
What did First Baptist Houston and a ‘Presbyterian’ know?
In 2004, court records show that a small group of leaders at the massive First Baptist Church of Houston were made aware of allegations that Pressler, a powerful deacon at the megachurch, had undressed and groped a young man at his home. In a letter to Pressler that was unearthed as part of Rollins’ lawsuit, the church leaders condemned Pressler’s “morally and spiritually” inappropriate behavior. They also feared that publicizing the allegations would damage Pressler’s reputation in their church and the Southern Baptist Convention.
…Pressler, meanwhile, was a youth pastor at a Presbyterian church in Houston. He was ousted from that position in 1978 after church officials received information about “an alleged incident,” according to a letter introduced into the court file.
Paul Pressler versus Jared Woodfill: Who should bear the blame?
Paul Pressler.
- There are credible claims and lawsuits against Pressler.
- There have been accusations of abusive behavior going back to the 1970s.
- Seven men claim that Pressler abused them.
- First Baptist Houston leaders were made aware that he groped and undressed young men, and he eventually had to leave the church.
- Pressler was an influential lawyer and a powerful leader in the SBC conservative power play known as the resurgence.
Jared Woodfill
- He was informed as early as 2004 that Pressler was involved in, at the minimum, highly inappropriate behavior with young men.
- Woodfill was involved in business/lawyer activities with Pressler, who brought only two cases into the business.
- Woodfill kept on Pressler, even supplying him with young make assistants.
- Woodfill is an intelligent man who needs to do due diligence on backgrounds when taking cases. He certainly had enough information to investigate Pressler and, at the minimum, to not assign young men to work alone with Pressler in his home.
Tougher questions
Paul Pressler
Paul Pressler has been involved in abusive behavior for much of his adult life. It is possible he is still involved in such activities since lifelong abuse indicates a profound psychiatric illness. I wonder if he has ever sought help.
In some respects, his alleged activities remind me of Ravi Zacharias, who was allegedly still involved with women as he lay dying of cancer. Pressler is 93 and has never confessed to his predilections, as far as we know. Neither did Zacharias. Both Pressler and Zacharias were befriended and defended by well-known Christians. Both Pressler and Zacharias claimed to be Christians. They appeared to show no fear as death approached. Most believers have a healthy fear of standing before the Lord, one day. Confession and repentance are part and parcel of living out one’s Christian life.
Could it be that Pressler is not a Christian and has merely used the Christian faith to get power over leaders so he could continue his despicable activities with impunity?
Jared Woodfill
Woodfill allegedly knew of Pressler’s activities. He appeared to have hired Pressler due to his influence since Pressler did not seem to have offered much in the way of cases for the business. Could this have been a quid pro quo arrangement? Pressler gave the firm prestige, and Woodfill gave him young men who were preyed upon. Is this any different than the dealer in cocaine selling an illegal substance to a client?
However, it seems to go deeper than that. How was this alleged activity different than sex trafficking? Did Woodfill approve of Pressler’s activities? If so, how does he justify it from a Christian perspective? Is he involved in a church? He allegedly attends Second Baptist, the same church Pressler started attending when he left First Baptist. I wonder if Ed Young Sr. has sat down with his parishioners and urged them to repent. Have they repented?
Woodfill has been a prominent outspoken opponent of LGBTQ+ advocacy. Does he believe that procuring young men to work with Pressler was a more godly activity? Does Woodfill regret his activities? If so, has he reached out to those men and offered them counseling along with his repentance?
I am glad that Woodfill lost his election bid. Hopefully, it was due to voters who had educated themselves as to the issues surrounding Woodfill and his relationship with Pressler. If Woodfill is a true Christian as opposed to a person who uses Christianity to increase his power base, then there should be some statements of remorse coming in the near future.
Finally
As I have often said, there are no ghostwriters in the Book of Life. That is handled by the One who holds a much higher pay grade than all of mankind. I trust Him to make the right decisions. In the meantime, I know He is willing to let us wrestle with questions.
“What say youse guys?” Or should we say y’all?
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Tulip looks like quite the princess! Sorry for your loss but 13 is respectable and sounds like she went out on her own terms.
There’s a lot of people that use religion to further their own ends. Personally I think we should judge these clowns. I’m not god and I’ll never pretend to be. Christians believe there is justice in the next life. Fine but there needs to be justice in this life to.
From Luke 23
” One of the criminals who hung there hurled insults at him: “Aren’t you the Messiah? Save yourself and us!”
40 But the other criminal rebuked him. “Don’t you fear God,” he said, “since you are under the same sentence? 41 We are punished justly, for we are getting what our deeds deserve. But this man has done nothing wrong.”
42 Then he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.[d]”
43 Jesus answered him, “Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise.”
Jesus did not save these criminals in the temporal world. They were charged and punished. And had to see their punishment through.
So it is for Christians who are convicted of crimes now. What happens in the afterlife is up to god, but justice in this realm is up to us.
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I don’t think you can have a discussion about Pressler & Woodfill without throwing Paige Patterson’s name in there. As co-architect of the Conservative Resurgence with Pressler, Patterson surely knew about his bud’s dark side … IMO.
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1.). Tulip was adorable. Thanks for sharing the photo.
2.) It’s “y’all”, unless you’re talking to all of us: then it would be “all of y’all”. Make sense? It’s not suppose to.
3.). Pressler is a rabid wolf who preys on lambs. IMO, Woodfill was ready, willing, able, and did lead lambs to the slaughter for a profit.
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“Could it be that Pressler is not a Christian …”
“Those who belong to Christ have crucified their old nature with all that it loved and lusted for.” (Galatians 5:24 Phillips)
“Those who belong to Christ have nailed their natural evil desires to His cross and crucified them there.” (Galatians 5:24 TLB)
“Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature together with its passions and appetites.” (Galatians 5:24 AMP)
Did Pressler do that?
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I’m so sorry about your Tulip. Our pets are such a comfort in this sick world, and it’s so hard to lose them.
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“Dogs die. But dogs live, too. Right up until they die, they live. They live brave, beautiful lives. They protect their families. And love us, and make our lives a little brighter, and they don’t waste time being afraid of tomorrow.” – (Dan Gemeinhart)
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“Could it be that Pressler is not a Christian and has merely used the Christian faith to get power over leaders so he could continue his despicable activities with impunity?”
How many minors violated? Over decades… how many?
A mouse in the cookie jar is never a cookie.
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“Going to church doesn’t make you a Christian any more than going to a garage makes you an automobile.” (Billy Sunday)
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Awesome picture of Tulip
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I’m sorry for your loss.
Re: the question of whether people who do such things “really are christian”, I think that there are elements of baptist thinking, for example the concept “once saved, always saved”, that can have something of an anesthetic effect on the conscience. The thought that “Jesus died for all my sins, past/present/future” is a great comfort, but if one’s the heart is in the thrall of evil desires, that thought might lower internal barriers to bad behavior that a healthy fear of future consequences might otherwise maintain.
Perhaps there is something to the concept of “evanescent grace”, though in this case it might be that the grace was not so much “vanishing” as “long since vanished.”
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Once saved always saved is a good doctrine that has been misunderstood and perverted in two major ways: some see it as a get out of jail free card with no consequences. Others are perpetual sin sniffers sure they can find someone professing Christ but not living up to His standards and thus not truly saved.
The doctrine never taught either of those things. When properly taught it did assure the Christian that when we make mistakes, even huge ones, and sin horribly we are not somehow “unsaved.” That assurance can give the sinner the hope and courage to repent again, and start over again. But when properly taught it never gave anyone promises that they would not reap consequences. Those consequences will be in this life, and may continue to the next.
There were two common schools of thought on consequences in the next life, now anathema to most Baptists since the Calvinist takeover. One school taught the consequences in the next life were a loss of rewards. In heaven, but not enjoying the rewards of the faithful. The other school of thought, taught by but not invented by some such as Charles Stanley, was known as millennial exclusion. In that school of thought, those that were saved but unfaithful (gross sinners) would spend the millennium in outer darkness. Sort of only one step above hell.
The Reformed crowd finds that two Romish and neither of those are taught often today, but it IS part of Baptist heritage regarding once saved always saved. (Some of the history I learned back pre CR in getting a Baptist Doctrine Diploma from the SBC SS Board lol.)
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Oy Vey dumb spell check. Make that too Romish not two Romish.
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I’m saddened for you loss, dogs do so love unconditionally.
Pressler almost certainly considered himself a good Christian. After all David sinned and was forgiven and both David and him were doing the work of the Lord.
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“once saved, always saved”, that can have something of an anesthetic effect on the conscience.
Samuel Conner,
I think you’re right.
When I was a teenager, I had friends who would tell me the once you were saved, you could do anything you wanted to, and it wouldn’t matter!
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Samuel Conner,
Love your comment.
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But David didn’t continually rape women and kill their husbands.
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Jeffrey Chalmers,
She was the most photogenic pug we have had.
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Thank you. That did my heart good.
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Well said.
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Max,
It’s pretty hard for him to get around those verses.
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I had never thought of the thieves on the CRoss like this. Thank you.
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Careful about that, Max.
Once you get sidetracked onto Theology and Sotieriology (with or without the proof-text verses), you’re playing the Presslers’ game on their home field.
While everybody argues Theology and Soteriology and whether X is REALLY a CHRISTIAN/really SAVED (“DIE, HERETIC!”), X escapes out the back door laughing at all the stupid suckers.
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Why not?
Makes perfect sense.
Now that you’ve walked the aisle and said The Magic Words and are Saved(TM), your ticket’s punched, Fire Insurance policy, complementary Rapture boarding pass, and all.
Only difference between you and the Really Truly REFORMED is that God punched their ticket before the foundation of the world and punched yours when you walked the aisle, said the words, and Really Truly Meant It.
And anyway, you’ve got to do something to pass the time between saying the words and Rapture or Homegoing(TM). OSAS means whatever you do it wont’ affect your Salvation.
The Gospel of Personal Salvation and ONLY Personal Salvation is as selfish as anything from the typer of Ayn Rand. I find myself binge-watching N.T.Wright’s Surprised by Hope videos…
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Thank you, linda.
A thought, unarticulated in my prior comment, that underlies my rumination is that one of the fruits of regeneration ought to be a conscience that is alert to one’s own sin, that “hates what I do” (adapting language from Paul in Romans 7).
It is a bit hard for me to believe that, granting the underlying alleged history mentioned in the OP, this has been the case in the principal subject of the OP.
I think that both baptists and Reformed tend to affirm that “it is possible to know that you are saved, and for you to know that your knowledge is true and is not self-deception.” I tend to doubt this — my sense is that “assurance” should not be thought of as “deductive” (“I believe certain things or prayed a certain prayer, therefore I know”) but rather “inductive” (“I see evidence of what I believe is the sanctifying work of the Spirit in my life, therefore I have hope.” This seems to me to be the argument of an entire book of the Bible: I John.), but that’s controversial, not to mention highly disturbing to many people. It also might be vulnerable to the charge of being a form of moralism.
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i.e. You’re Still Saved, but in Heaven you’re living in a cardboard box behind a dumpster while your Spiritual Betters have Saddam Palaces and Bezos yachts.
This is a variant of what I encountered in-country in the Seventies from overripe Jesus People. Don’t know how it started, but the idea was that the only thing that determined the size of your Crown of Glory (i.e. position in Heaven) was “How Many Souls Did YOU Save? Huh? Huh? Huh?” Who has the best Sales Record?
The result of this was Wretched Urgency, where you were compelled to WITNESS! WITNESS! WITNESS! to everybody – EVERYBODY – you came across. (Often on Drive-By Prosletysing Sorties from your Christian fortress church. God help the guy in the airliner seat next to you.)
That way lies Madness.
How does that differ from Purgatory?
(Or as George Carlin put it, “Temporary Hell”.)
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I’ll also note that the “future consequences” should be thought of as also encompassing “under the sun” consequences. The principal subject of the OP was surely familiar with the OT story of what happened to David and David’s family after “the matter of Bathsheba and Uriah.” People who take the Scriptures seriously ought to experience some degree of fear of their own propensity to sin, even if only on account of the “under the sun” consequences.
Do we really want trouble and affliction such as befell David to the end of his days?
Do we really want to give unbelievers occasion to blaspheme YHWH?
Is there no fear of God before our eyes?
I would add these to the “hard questions” Dee posed in reference to the principal subject of the OP.
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Headless Unicorn Guy,
“You will know them by their fruit” is enough for me
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Of course, he could have repented since his bad-boy days … but he had decades to do that ‘while’ he was going to church and hearing verses like that!
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dee,
Here we go dragging out David again!
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Headless Unicorn Guy: nope, not living in a cardboard box in heaven. It was taught that all your sins were judged at the cross and gone. The faithful were said to be earning “stars in their crowns” or rewards. The unfaithful would be, as it says in Corinthians “saved but so as by fire” with all their works burned up. Everyone enjoys heaven as much as they are capable. The faithful are more capable of joy, so they enjoy it more.
And yes, current SBC teaching has tossed millennial exclusion as heretical because it sounds pretty much like purgatory. And it is…or was…a very similar teaching.
Those teachings are now more found in the evangelical universalist groups. Serious consequences for bad acts in the here and now. Even more serious consequences in the hereafter as all that dross has to be removed. But eventually final restoration of all things, including humans to a state of goodness and innocence.
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It’s hard for all of us to get around those verses!
“Yet, I do not consider myself to have “arrived”, spiritually, nor do I consider myself already perfect. But I keep going on, grasping ever more firmly that purpose for which Christ grasped me. I do not consider myself to have fully grasped it even now. But I do concentrate on this: I leave the past behind and with hands outstretched to whatever lies ahead I go straight for the goal — my reward the honor of being called by God in Christ.” (Philippians 3:13-14 Phillips)
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dee,
Someone once said “Blood makes you related. Love makes you family.”
I never had a dog that didn’t love me unconditionally.
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Isn’t the Heathen word for that “PIMP”?
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TOUCH NOT MINE ANOINTED, remember.
Also not surprised.
Reference Quote Fred Phelps does not apply to God’s Special Anointed.
Also rules of CELEBRITY are in effect: Nobody tells Celebrity anything Celebrity doesn’t want to hear, Celebrity’s inner ring supplies Celebrity’s appetites whatever they may be.
“Just like Jeffrey Epstein, Except CHRISTIAN(TM)!”
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“One Hand Washes the Other…”
And the Inner Ring feeds the Celebrity’s Appetite, whatever it may be.
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Why, yes. Yes, it is.
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Tulip is darling and I’ll know you’ll miss her. I had a spicy kitty I had to put to sleep when she was 18 due to failing health. She went out of this world waving her paw in protest. She would have the last word, always (she was also a great cat).
As to Pressler and his ilk, I don’t know. I do believe in eternal security, but I also believe that our works indicate whether or not we are truly saved. I know that God’s forgiveness for his children is infinite, yet the Scriptures seem to indicate that there will be some kind of evaluation for Christians before God’s throne and rewards for those who are faithful.
Then, there is the thief on the cross who was saved at the last minute, and Lot (who offered his young daughters to the sexual perverts of Sodom) who is in the “hall of fame” of faith in Hebrews 12. I think the church needs to make sure that people like Pressler are turned into the authorities and removed permanently from any ministry involvement. If they ever return to church, in a state of sincere repentance, they need to be carefully watched. People should be told that brother/sister so-and-so has an issue with whatever the sin happens to be. My current church screens ministry volunteers carefully, and issues have been few, but dealt with quickly (like a volunteer getting too involved with students outside of church who was quietly moved elsewhere and before something bad happened. She still attends, but she is not allowed at any youth functions, and she has “minders.”). That’s all in 20 years. We also don’t let people into the children’s zone unless they are parents or part of the ministry team.
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Ah Dee, the most difficult part of having pets. May the Lord who created them comfort you. I firmly believe they will be with us in Paradise – there could be no Paradise without them.
D.
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I’m with you dainca, I have no desire for streets of gold and jewel encrusted vistas.
Jewish heaven makes much more sense to me, living this life and the next in a real flesh-and-blood afterlife, and in a real planetary realm with the bad stuff removed.
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But even good works can deceive:
“Many will say to Me on that day [when I judge them], ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, and driven out demons in Your name, and done many miracles in Your name?’ And then I will declare to them publicly, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me [you are banished from My presence], you who act wickedly [disregarding My commands]'” (Matthew 7:22-23 AMP)
“Lord, Lord, wasn’t I a member in good standing at Second Baptist, a prominent Southern Baptist, a co-architect of the Conservative Resurgence? …”
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so sorry you lost your little Tulip . . . pets are like children and when they go, the pain is hard to bear. It broke my heart when our pup passed.
Praying for you.
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The question is, does he actually care?
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It is also the name that refers to a particular type of criminal.
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Unlike some parts of the bible these verses always resonated with me. Even now, it’s a good observation of our human condition – being “saved” does not exempt you from the consequences of your actions.
One word that is not mentioned is “forgiveness” – Jesus does not “forgive” in this case. I know that sounds counterintuitive but there’s also the story of the adulterous woman in John 8 – after all the accusers leave
” Then Jesus stood up again and said to the woman, “Where are your accusers? Didn’t even one of them condemn you?”
11 “No, Lord,” she said.
And Jesus said, “Neither do I. Go and sin no more.”
Jesus doesn’t use the word “forgiveness” but says he does not “condemn” her. I think there is a profound distinction.
Where does Jesus use forgiveness? “Forgive them for they know not what they do” – in this case Jesus is the victim. Even in the Lord’s prayer – “forgive us our sins as we forgive those who sin against us” – Forgiveness is the prerogative of the victim.
This becomes weaponized as the victim must forgive the accused – I posit that forgiveness means to let go of hatred before coming before God. Forgiveness is healing not for those who did you wrong but for yourself – it doesn’t mean “we’re all good now” and it doesn’t erase the wrong that was perpetrated.
The criminal on the cross did four things in this order
1) acknowledge the crimes before God
2) acknowledge they deserve to pay for those crimes
3) repent before God
4) accept their punishment (and consequences) to the end – I suppose you could add “sin no more” but this guy died)
Forgiveness is up to the victim – not the perpertrator.
I’m no theologian and I don’t speak for what God does (actually God doesn’t speak to me) but this seems to be the roadmap to moving forward as a criminal. Guys like Pressler are incapable of even completing step one.
And as for King David what’s remarkable about his “forgiveness” is that it was the prophet Nathan who delivered the message. There’s almost a contempt about it.
Jesus spoke directly to the common criminal and the adulterous woman – God sent his lawyer to talk to his “chosen” King.
Being “saved” isn’t a “get out of jail free” card.
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Let me rephrase that “acknowledge the crimes” period – they need to publicly admit their guilt especially to their victime.
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“…she deserves more recognition than Jared Woodfill or Paul Pressler.”
+++++++++++
And how!
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That’s also where “christian nationalists” go wrong. Texas is closer to their idea than many places. Stuff that they deem bad still happens.
● Will there be corruption in their “paradise”? Just ask a few TX politicians.
● Will there be murder and violence? You must be kidding to even ask the question.
● Will there be abortions? The abortion rate in the US has been lower than in ’73 (when it was still illegal) since 2012 or so, and it’s now about 82% of what it was when illegal. So will “christian” nationalists (see what I did there) concentrate on measures that are provably efficient in bringing the abortion rate down, like paid maternity leave, free healthcare for mothers and infants, affordable child care, higher minimum wage? Nope, they want to punish the women.
● Will there be predators going after after the vulnerable (children, and people that depend on them for a living)? Just ask Jared Woodfill and Paul Pressler.
Even in the most “christian” society, all this stuff will happen, but it will be covered up, because we have to keep up appearances. So predators will predate, and it will be covered up, pregnant women without money will be prosecuted, while the rich will always find a sympathetic doctor who will help them with their “inconvenient problem”.
Even in a perfectly “christian” society with laws determined by “christian” nationalists, all this will still happen.
But the punishments for those who are not in the in-group, those punishments will be, oh, so exquisite!
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The Righteous are never happy unless they have Unrighteous they can PUNISH! PUNISH! PUNISH! PUNISH! PUNISH! PUNISH! PUNISH!
In this they are conformed to the image of their God, the Revenge Jesus who created Eternal Hell and is coming back Any Minute Now to destroy the world and PUNISH! PUNISH! PUNISH! PUNISH! PUNISH! PUNISH! PUNISH! PUNISH! all the Unrighteous while awarcing Crowns of Glory to his Faithful (guess who?)
Remember the last scene from Left Behind: Volume 12 where the two Author Self-Inserts (in their immortal resurrection bodies and Crowns of Glory) walk away from the Judgment Seat into the Millenial Kingdom? And one ASI says to the other ASI “Now we can finally build a truly Chrisitan nation”?
Using Tolkien’s imagery, they have been in the Timeless Halls; they have just received a new Arda (if not a new Ea) from the Hand of Eru Iluvatar Himself; and their only concern is how this can advance their political agenda.
As in Sonderbehandlung in a KZ?
Several Christian Nationalist theologians have been arguing about the Death Penalty in their Perfect Christian Nation. All the methods they were debating from Scripture were slow, painful, and oh so EXQUISITE. GOD Hath Commanded, and GOD will be pleased with such Devotion.
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Where have you been for the past 50 years, Jack?
That was the attitude when I was in-country that long ago, and I’ve seen no indication that it’s changed.
The Gospel of Personal Salvation and ONLY Personal Salvation is at heart Utterly Selfish.
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Off topic I’ve followed 2 stories on the Roys Report but don’t wish to comment there…
1: Neuma, a smaller version of Hillsong, where the global leader was carrying on with the worship leader/prophet lady and says it was because he got too tired and worn out etc
When they first announced not only he but his wife had been fired, they tried to bamboozle the sheeple that it was due to health problems….
2: IHOP, where in the latest round of soap opera both affair-ers were world-famous worship leaders and the guy allegedly blackmailed the lady. The guy had long ago been “restored” after lots of previous affairs and married then divorced Bickle’s daughter. When TRR reached out to him he replied he wonted nothing to do with their BS narrative.
Also the “ministry” leaders allegedly retaliated against the lady’s former employee who blew the whistle and tried to get them to do something….
All this to reply to a comment saying the real culprit is the rascally reporter for publishing the article:
“I wholeheartedly agree! Grace and Peace, James MacDonald”
But they want us to use our real names over there….
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I’m not naive. Just saying these clowns are incapable of reading their own scripture.
If an apostate like me can use scripture for goodness and niceness, then they should be able to.
But they can’t.
They fear the Reaper so have to perform mental gymnastics to justify why they aren’t going to the roasting pan.
Ironically their “salvation” is their curse. They have leap through impossible hoops to prove they are “worthy” knowing what potentially awaits…
Me? I hurtle towards infinity with a six pack of beer in one hand and a bucket of fried chicken in the other…
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A ‘Christian Nationalist’ dictatorship would be as brutal as any the world has seen.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dy4HA3vUv2c
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Muff Potter,
Ah. the Cult of the Blue Oyster rides again…
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“We got a full tank of gas… It’s Dark, and we’re wearing sunglasses. Hit it!”
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Even more so, as its Ideology is justified at the Cosmic level — “GOD SAITH!”
And after a generation or two of such a Godly CHRISTIAN Nation, the name “Jesus Christ” will carry the exact same baggage as the name “Adolf Hitler”.
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“Could it be that Pressler is not a Christian and has merely used the Christian faith to get power over leaders so he could continue his despicable activities with impunity?”
++++++++++++++++
so, regarding this tough question:
christianity is what people make of it. it is how people build the institution.
a few things i observe about the current iteration of the christian institution:
–the doctrinal chief cornerstone “the ends justify the means”
(bullet point) seems to me actual doctrine is not written down
(bullet point) doctrines are easiest to see & understand by actions, not lofty silly words strung together in sanctimonious statements.
(bullet point) alliteration is for nursery rhymes, but the words say it well
.
.
–obsession with “leadership”
(bullet point)restrained megalomania in an evangelical halloween costume is the model
(bullet point) for everyone else, a litmus test of their ‘christian’ is willingness to submit
.
.
so, yes. Paul Pressler is a christian whose activities are not incompatible with the functional doctrine of christianity.
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One can also add the “works oriented” (although they would almost violently deny) aspect of many fundamentalist and you really have almost the opposite of Christ’s teaching…. I can not count the number of times I felt the “pride” emanating from said Fundy about how they act/believe…. Sigh..
However, given the NT warns us of wolves in sheep’s clothing, and I lived experienced allot, all of this just convinces me that their core “truths” in Christ’s teaching and the NT…. But, you need to figure it out yourself… not listen to blowhards/clowns
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I’ve only read the first few comments….I wanted to reply to you, Jack, before I continue reading…. 🙂
Good comment. 🙂
Now back to eating my lunch….
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I’ve only read as far as this comment of yours, Jack….I wanted to reply before I continue reading this morning….I’m still playing catch-up. 🙂
Good comment. 🙂
Now back to my reading….