On a completely unrelated note, a very happy New Year to Wartburgers everywhere.

“He was best buddies with Paige Patterson. I believe it is safe to say that he was among the most well-known men in the SBC.”

Pressler and Patterson were (are) referred to as co-architects of SBC’s Conservative Resurgence in the 1970s-1990s.

“I wonder how many leaders in the SBC knew about this and covered it up? I suspect that many of today’s SBC leaders knew about Pressler and did nothing.”

What a sick group of criminals running a religious organization. Reporting is mandatory, which makes these leaders’ complicity criminal.

The truth caught up with Pressler.
_______

FYI
The Methodist Church of Great Britain Labels Terms ‘Husband’ and ‘Wife’ Offensive. The death march continues for the progressive Methodist Church.

Max,

I know for a fact that Paige Patterson knew about it in 1988 because he called a friend of mine and tried to intimidate him into keeping quiet about it. Pressler’s homosexuality was discussed openly by Moderates during the 1980s. The problem was that no news outlet would break the story because no one wanted to go public against him. He was that powerful. I’m so glad to see this coming out now at the end of his miserable life. I hope he dies penniless.

Max: Pressler was kingpin of SBC’s conservative movement to send denominational liberals and moderates packing … he was critical for that mission … he was too big to fail. His bad-boy behaviour was overlooked, covered up, swept under the carpet.

Rather than liberal vs conservative, how about moral vs immoral? Criminal vs civil? Love vs hate? Ethical vs unethical? Sicko vs healthy? Safe vs destructive?

Some people “got it” and left the SBC. Jimmy Carter, for example. Some would label him “liberal” but he took a hard line re: human rights, women, and church ethics. Is that “conservative” or “liberal”? It’s moral.

“Gareld Rollins Jr. claims he was regularly raped by the conservative leader. Rollins met Pressler in high school and was part of a Bible study Pressler led. Rollins claims he was raped two to three times a month while at Pressler’s home.”-wikipedia

With this type of Sodom and Gomorrah leadership and culture in churches, who needs a church? It’s worse than the local sleaze bar of consenting adults doing their hetero, bi, pan, and paramour activities. The SBC leadership is all about VIOLATING MINORS, CHILDREN. Sexual predation.

Evil of the worst kind.

“ the likelihood that counsel for the SBC and Executive Committee would have to confront and cross-examine abuse survivors”

Am I reading too much into this, or is this the SBC’s attorneys acknowledging that the complainants are indeed abuse survivors? Implying that they agree Pressler is a serial sexual predator.

Anthony: Pressler accomplished the destruction of the free Baptist press system leaving the denomination with a membership of uninformed congregations. Without strong state papers lay people are ignorant of
Facts and events that formerly helped them make wise decisions. it was part of his plan.

In the absence of a free Baptist press, I fault 45,000+ SBC pastors for not keeping their congregations informed about the good, the bad, and the ugly SBC issues. Church leaders know, but remain silent. For example, the New Calvinist movement is sweeping through SBC ranks, displacing the traditional non-Calvinist belief and practice of millions of SBC members. The pew ain’t got a clue that their tithes and offerings are financing this rebellion. Their pastor knows and is not having family meetings with the congregation to warn and inform, as a good shepherd should. Yep, their pastor knows a lot he is not telling them, with the widespread abuse of women and children being at the top of the list. Praise God for watchblogs like TWW that are standing in the gap … a printed version should be inserted in SBC church bulletins at 45,000+ churches every Sunday!

Nick Bulbeck: I’m likely to be semi-retired in the next couple of months!

I recommend fly fishing.

Max,

I’m going to write my second and third books, hopefully.

Max,

It’s not just non-Calvinist belief which has been displaced. Non-complementarian beliefs and churches are being eliminated by the BF&M and by actions of leaders like Al Mohler. Can God answer more than I ask or imagine by moving some notable influencers in the SBC to change their minds (i.e., repent) in 2024?

Anthony: Pressler accomplished the destruction of the free Baptist press system leaving the denomination with a membership of uninformed congregations.

“I LOVE the Poorly Educated!”

Sandy Williams: It’s not just non-Calvinist belief which has been displaced. Non-complementarian beliefs and churches are being eliminated by the BF&M and by actions of leaders like Al Mohler.

The two are related. Calvinism begets complementarity. Mohler has largely accomplished his mission to Calvinize the SBC via the New Calvinist movement.

dee: Is he a believer? If he did some of those things of which he is accused, I have my doubts.

Be careful not to get sidetracked onto whether “Is he a believer or not?” Because while we start infighting about that (“DIE, HERETIC!”), Pressler slips out the back door (with his boy-toy boys) laughing.

However, it is alleged (and I believe it to be true) that he was a prodigious molester of teen males and young men.

Same-sex Ehebephile.
Same-sex version of Voddie Baucham’s “As a man gets old, his eyes turn towards younger women.”
AKA “I keep getting older; they stay the same age.”

“I discovered that this was not unusual behavior for Pressler, and that he had a long history of lecherous behavior towards young men. Even going as far as bringing scantily clad men and parading them through the office,”

“I keep getting older; they stay the same age.”

Rather than pay him a salary, Woodfill testified, the firm provided Pressler a string of employees to serve as personal assistants, most of them young men who typically worked out of his River Oaks mansion. .

Oh, they were paying him a salary.
Off the books, in continuously Fresh Meat.
“I keep getting older; they stay the same age.”

Pressler appears to have held carte blanche when it came to acquiring young men to feed his disturbing habit, which he denies that he has. I think he has spent most of his life covering up his proclivities.

A better word than “proclivities” would be “APPETITE” or “APPETITES”.

Max: In the absence of a free Baptist press, I fault 45,000+ SBC pastors for not keeping their congregations informed about the good, the bad, and the ugly SBC issues.

Why would they? They ARE the system. They kissed the Don’s ring and pledged their allegiance to their godfather. For their paycheck, their livelihood, of course… for home and family.

This is the same system and godfather loyalty of Jesus’ day. Jesus says flat out to whom the religious leaders have sworn their loyalty:

“You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he tells a lie, he speaks from his own nature, because he is a liar and the father of lies. But because I say the truth, you do not believe Me. Which one of you convicts Me of sin? If I speak truth, why do you not believe Me? The one who is of God hears the words of God; for this reason you do not hear them, because you are not of God.”

-from John 8.

They have sold out their very souls. This system’s evil violation of children, minors, youth, and women, has been going on for a long time. The org has even kept a file on it to protect themselves, their org, and to silence the violated.

Like Dee says in the post, she didn’t post the truth about certain individuals earlier due to the threat of lawsuits. She wasn’t part of the system but she saw the threat looming.

Everything about the violation of children, minors, youth, and women comes from one place and serves one entity or spiritual Being, just as Jesus said. This has NOTHING to do with God even though it is in the church. A mouse in the cookie jar is NOT a cookie.

dee,

Cowards, and individuals unwilling to follow the basic tenants that Christ advocated…. I do not disagree that all humans are fallen, and all leadership is “compromised”; however we are EXPLICiITY called to stand up for the downtrodden/weak/children, etc… The SBC has failed on some of the most basic commands of Christ..

senecagriggs: Are there troubled, sinful men in leadership? All of them actually when compared to the Holiness of God. Are they all about sexual sin? That’s crazy talk. They aren’t.

What Jesus says to religious leaders who circle the wagons to support their org & provide cover for predators, from John 8:

“You are of your father, the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and doesn’t stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks on his own; for he is a liar, and the father of lies. But because I tell the truth, you don’t believe me. Which of you convicts me of sin? If I tell the truth, why do you not believe me? He who is of God hears the words of God. For this cause you don’t hear, because you are not of God.”

So, a bit beyond “troubled”.

Sure, everyone sins, Rom. 3.23, but not all have sold out to the father of lies and evil – Jesus called out religious leaders serving their father the Prince of this World, who is NOT our Heavenly Father.

Then they executed Jesus, the Son of God. The religious leaders did this.

Then Jesus rose from death. Meanwhile, they all went to the other place. The religious leaders. Of Jesus’s day.

Do we have such religious leaders serving the Prince of this World today? Beyond “troubled”? Out and out sold out to evil? Apparently so.

The Weinsteins and Epsteins and Cosbys and Lauers with supporters leading our churches. Prominent, powerful, pompous, profitable, posing & posturing as Jesus’s servants, who serve none other than the devil himself. Doesn’t get worse than that.

Ava Aaronson: It’s as if Winston Churchill covertly joined the Third Reich’s inner circle of leaders then delivered his country to the Third Reich’s Empire.

Judas delivered Jesus to His execution.

These wolves in church garb with church titles deliver children, minors, youth, and women, right into a pit of evil where the church leader wolves violate them.

It’s only by the grace of God, that the innocent flee the evil to hopefully maintain and preserve their innocence. They are innocent. But what they have experienced is a snake pit of being violated while under the care of a church man serving the devil.

Ava Aaronson: They kissed the Don’s ring and pledged their allegiance to their godfather. For their paycheck, their livelihood, of course… for home and family.

… and for their SBC retirement annuity.

This whole mess is a classic example of thinking that the end (conservative resurgence) justifies the means (Paul, others like him, and covering for them).

The reality is that, of course, the means defined the end (an organization bereft of morals).

Smooth move SBC.

Ava Aaronson: Why would they? They ARE the system. They kissed the Don’s ring and pledged their allegiance to their godfather. For their paycheck, their livelihood, of course… for home and family.

And like Reichsminister Speer, they “arranged their minds” to see nothing wrong with the System that personally benefited them.

And for the Godly men at the top?
“He shall rule above the Law,
Calling on The LORD…”
— Rudyard Kipling, “The Old Issue”, 1899

Max: … and for their SBC retirement annuity.

Indeed, that, too.

Headless Unicorn Guy: And for the Godly men at the top?

Godly men my a$$.

Paul Pressler – Just like Jimmy Saville, Except CHRISTIAN(TM)?

Headless Unicorn Guy,

They serve the same god, have the same godfather, as Jesus points out.

Headless Unicorn Guy: Be careful not to get sidetracked onto whether “Is he a believer or not?” Because while we start infighting about that (“DIE, HERETIC!”), Pressler slips out the back door (with his boy-toy boys) laughing.

From what I understand, none of the men Pressler hit on (and who have come forward) wanted to be hit on. Pressler was a *power* in Houston when I was in law school. He was on the 14th Appellate Circuit bench as well as being a Baptist bigwig. And for those of you who have forgotten, during that period (1980s) Southern Baptists and other Christians absolutely covered themselves in glory (*sarcasm*) by going after people with AIDS and suggesting some fairly terrible “solutions” to same. So for me, there’s heavy, heavy irony that Pressler was apparently hitting on men during that period.

I don’t forget.

Muslin fka Dee Holmes: So for me, there’s heavy, heavy irony that Pressler was apparently hitting on men during that period

More like intentional hypocrisy in my book. All to the purpose of Pressler keeping power securred wherever necessary. So disturbing.

Muslin fka Dee Holmes: From what I understand, none of the men Pressler hit on (and who have come forward) wanted to be hit on. Pressler was a *power* in Houston when I was in law school

StarF’ers.
Screw your way to the top.
“I’m the Sultan’s Favorite!”
Is there a word for the male equivalent of P*ssy Politics?
Or is this one of those things that has no name, even among the Goyim?

Muslin fka Dee Holmes: during that period (1980s) Southern Baptists and other Christians absolutely covered themselves in glory (*sarcasm*) by going after people with AIDS and suggesting some fairly terrible “solutions” to same.

Solutions such as those worked out by Heydrich (and his sidekick Eichmann) at Gross-Wansee?
Remember the Pink Triangle was right up there with the Mogem David.

Bridget: intentional hypocrisy

A good way to describe the dilemma in most organized church structures. Compromise enters the door where pride, power, and prestige resides. All can be found in the ivory towers of SBC.

from the Texas Tribune article:

“Pressler … was a youth pastor at a Presbyterian church in Houston. He was ousted from that position in 1978 after church officials received information about “an alleged incident,” according to a letter introduced into the court file. Soon after, Pressler ramped up his involvement in Southern Baptist life.”

Chilling. From one denomination to another, looking for prey.

“Your adversary the Devil is prowling around like a roaring lion, looking for anyone he can devour” (1 Peter 5:8)

Muslin fka Dee Holmes: Pressler was apparently hitting on men during that period.

His cover?

Spouse: Nancy Avery Pressler (m. 1959)
Children: 3
Residences: Houston, TX; Hidden Hills Rch in Wa. Cty, TX
Alma mater: Princeton; UofTX Law; Nat Col of St Trial Judges
Occupation: Lawyer; ret. judge; Leader of SBC Cons resurgence

It’s the 4-point predator cover. Like BTK: 1. Married 2. with children 3. Civil servant 4. Church leader.

During WW2, the Soviets recruited high level powerful sophisticated MI5 Brit agents to work for them, the Dark Side, as double agents. From Cambridge University, there were the Cambridge Five, who from the inside (top government positions) gave up deep intel over to the Enemy.

How much more, Satan works from top positions on down, inside the church. In Jesus’ day, from Judas to Caiaphas to the Barabbas-loving mob, they all executed Jesus.

Nothing new today.

The question about anyone in churches: Whom do they serve? Who is their godfather? Whose ring have they kissed? Whom will they betray with a kiss?

When donating, what kingdom is being supported?

From Tim Meshginpoosh @oldreepicheep on Twitter thread about SBC and Pressler:

“At my last church, where I was on the security team for over 10 years, I remember telling the pastor: ‘you know what keeps me up at night? It ain’t the active shooter. If one of those guys tried to bring an AR-15 in and shoot the place up, we’d take him out before he got in the building. It’s not the shooter… it’s the grooming, schmoozing predator who’s going to sneak in and win everyone over. He’s going to do the real damage.’

“I was right. But the predator didn’t strike that church.

“He hit the whole damn convention.”

He nails it, describing the embedded wolf in sheep’s or shepherd’s costume. The real danger. Doing serious damage. From within. A corrupt org. Grand old org. Deadly as a plague of Medieval times. Through and through.

Remember Paige Patterson’s stained-glass windows depicting leaders of SBC’s Conservative Resurgence in the hall of fame at the SWBTS chapel? Pressler’s image was depicted there, along with Frank Page (who failed morally) and Johnny Hunt (who failed morally). SWBTS was right to do away with the hall of shame when Patterson left campus.

sinful men in leadership? All of them actually when compared to the Holiness of God. Are they all about sexual sin?
senecagriggs,

We are all sinful when compared to the Holiness of God, including you and me.

So, tell me: How many children, women, boys. and young men have you abused sexually?
How many sexual predators have you lied for to protect them and keep them in positions power… or to keep yourself in a position of power.
How many victims have you verbally attacked?
How many innocent lambs have you sacrificed on a pagan altar for your own “Godly” glory?
…… This is what the SBC leaders do, and their acts are very intentional.

Nancy2(aka Kevlar): How did he not know what Pressler was doing?

“Break her down” Patterson knew.

Abigail,

Abigail,
93 or not, if he dies tomorrow the fact that some wrongdoing was acknowledged and some compensation was given will matter to the victims. So many have been coerced into silence because of the unwillingness of the SBC to deal with the issue. And, the cost of the settlement might force the SBC to be more careful in the future. The only thing that ever got the attention of the Catholic Church was the large payouts they have had to make to victims. You need large sums of cash to run a religious empire.

Max: there are thousands to pick from who have never bowed a knee to Baal. I know several in my area … not all Southern Baptist pastors are bad-boys.

Really? Have they ever showed up to support the victims of their org leaders? Boz says they never do.

Rallied with, for example, Christa Brown? Called out the predator who violated her?

Used social media to expose the Presslers, et al?

They are all in with the Conservative Resurgence that silences women, youth, and children? Theological duct tape?

Used their pulpit platform to address church predation, among their bro-guy favs?

It seems that’s how Dee left the SBC – no one listened, children were violated.

These “good-guy” SBC pastors are still in the system?

Robert Downen is a good guy – he puts the truth right out there front and center, no cover up, never looking away. Far more integrity than clergy.

Ava Aaronson,

Point well-taken. As Scripture says “There is none good, no not one” (Romans 3:10-12). Yep, the thousands of SBC pastors who have remained silent about abuse in the denomination are just as bad as those who commit such sins (if I could sin-level a bit). They should have been hammering on their pulpits for accountability and change. I’ll look at the ‘nice’ guys in pulpits in my area in a different light. You can’t preach the Good News without addressing the bad news, too. As I said in an earlier post, I fault 45,000+ SBC pastors for not having congregational meetings to inform members of the good, the bad, and the ugly within SBC. A good shepherd protects the flock.

Ava Aaronson

From the outside (not God’s perspective), it sure appears that you may not be wrong.

Marconi plays the mamba…
Listen to the radio…

Max,

The whole thing (“stained glass”, etc) would be a real laugh if it was not so utterly depraved what these clowns did…. ( note, I use the word clowns to get past censors, and keep my posts less offensive)…

Jeffrey Chalmers: so utterly depraved what these clowns did…

In Calvinism, “More Utterly Depraved Than Thou” is bragging rights among the Predestined Elect.

And since the Predestined Elect have a Get Out Of Hell Free card issued by God before the foundation of the world, why not indulge their Pelvic Appetites? What can God to to them? They’re His Predestined Elect! His Special Pets!

Headless Unicorn Guy,

You certainly have a better line-up of stained-glass who’s who at your church than the characters which formerly ‘graced’ the walls at the SWBTS chapel. The images of mere men like that should never be adored and revered … it was a bad idea, even before some of them fell from grace.

Headless Unicorn Guy: How does that lineup compare to the one in SWBTS?

Protestantism has no provenance.

elastigirl,
If he has ME/CFS, there isn’t much that can be done. The diagnoses is done through the process of elimination. The best thing your son can do is pace himself….. Pushing too hard takes a big toll — makes exhaustion and pain worsen and takes a longer time to recover….. may cause set backs. The naps are a good thing. Honestly, I hope your son’s problem is ADHD/ADD…. there are medications that will help that. I would think that having undiagnosed, untreated ADHD/ADD combined with the stress he is under right now could cause issues similar to ME/CFS.
At my worst, I felt like I was walking in thigh deep concrete…every step was forced. My legs ached constantly.

Seeing a specialist is a good idea. A primary care doctor can send out a referral/referrals.
Has he had his white blood cell count and iron level tested? A high white blood cell count and/or low iron can cause fatigue, or can worsen the symptoms of ME/CFS. They could also be red flags for other things.
Tell him I wish him the best, and I hope doctors can solve the problems

Max,

Max, anytime someone wishes to to glorify you – run like Hell. God knows you don’t deserve it. Paige at least should have put an immediate stop to it.

Nancy2(aka Kevlar),

Thank you, Nancy. Truly appreciate your thoughts on this.

Headless Unicorn Guy: Here’s the stained glass windows at my parish:

To the left the Seven Secraments:
1) Anointing of the Sick: St James the Greater
2) Penamce (Confession): St John Vianney (the Cure of Ars)
3) Holy Orders: St John Bosco
4) Holy Eucharist (Communion): St Pius X
5) Confirmation: St Paul (whose epistles the Calvinists quote chapter-and-verse)
6) Baptism: St Francis Xavier
7) Matrimony (Marriage): St Elizabeth of Hungary

To the right the Seven Cardinal Virtues:
1) Counsel: St Catherine of Sienns
2) Fortitude (Courage): St Joseph
3) Understanding: St Augustine of Hippo
4) Piety (Faith): St Charles Borromeo
5) Knowledge: St Thomas Aquinas
6) Fear of the Lord: Moses
7) Wisdom: St Mary, Mother of Jesus

How does that lineup compare to the one in SWBTS?

I want to see those stained-glass windows. They sound wonderful.

dee: have him tested by a sleep specialist

Our 6 year old grandson recently went through a sleep study, where it was found that he had sleep apnea attributed to swollen tonsils and adenoids. Both were surgically removed over the Christmas break – he is now sleeping soundly and more attentive at school. Praise God!

Max,

super encouraging!

Burwell Stark: I never made it to Texas so the invitation was moot, but I shudder to think of being invited into a predators lair at all.

“Delivered from the snare of the fowler” (Psalm 91:3)

Headless Unicorn Guy,

Thx. These are wonderful. The Saints in glass have aged well.

Ava Aaronson:
Headless Unicorn Guy,
Thx. These are wonderful. The Saints in glass have aged well.

Much better than Paige Patterrson, Mark Driscoll, Douggie ESQUIRE, or End Times Prophecy Du Jour.

Ava Aaronson,
One wonders was Pressler himself a victim of abuse when very young and did this evil imprint itself on him in a way that he could not cope with? In short, was he also one of the ranks of the ‘wounded’ that lash out and attempt to inflict their own pain on others in doing so.

What are we that God is mindful of us?
Why? A question that cannot be answered in our own earthly time-frame.

No ‘excuses’,
only ‘reasons’ . . . . there is a SADNESS that ends up on the Cross of Christ Crucified that expresses the pain that has no voice other than its own screams

christiane: One wonders was Pressler himself a victim of abuse when very young and did this evil imprint itself on him in a way that he could not cope with? In short, was he also one of the ranks of the ‘wounded’ that lash out and attempt to inflict their own pain on others in doing so.

Type example of this was a famous Austrian cult leader with a funny little mustache, who grew up surviving some very violent physical abuse and paid it back with interest his entire adult career.

Ava Aaronson: Nice guys on their supposedly pious public platforms being silent about these horrific destructive terrors in their org used as a hunting ground, are NOT nice.

Have you ever heard the proverb “The more Pious, the more Perverted”?

Headless Unicorn Guy: “I just can’t help myself” is just the Geraldine Defense

Was it Geraldine who also said “The Devil made me do it”?

Max,

love it!

‘pre destination’ : does it also include that satan ‘makes us do it’?
I have wondered about that point of view.

Headless Unicorn Guy,

The old-fashioned church was founded in 1995, the more up to date iteration in 2008. Falwell Senior was OT, which is why some can’t remember him.

I fell to some similar sects inspite of my spiritual background being mixed so that I could sense perspective somewhat, but only belatedly at an articulate level.

In the case of Falwell Senior I sense Manifest Destiny (which is very Hegelian) and contrived coinciding with secular ideals came into it.

In my second para. in the previous, add “it manifests as emotional turmoil – also in their followers”.