“The soul selects her own society,
Then shuts the door”
I remember hearing that Karen Swallow Prior (KSP) would teach at Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary. I decided she must be one of those women so enmeshed in the SBC that she has trouble seeing the institution’s problems. I wrote an email to her, welcoming her to Wake Forest, which is the next town over from Raleigh. I live on the border of these towns and spend much of my life in Wake Forest. I wondered how a woman with her education and skills would fit into an institution of men. There are few women at the school, and I wondered if she might be lonely or ignored. Those were the early glory days when KSP was often spoken of by the boys in charge as a beautiful example of scholarship and womanhood. I wondered if that perspective would last when she settled into her job at SEBTS.
As an aside, I would have loved to sit in on one of her courses. She is truly one of a kind as she speaks of the evangelical imagination. She is also an expert on Jane Austin, a particular favorite of mine.
KSP shook the dust off her feet.
KSP didn’t last at SEBTS. Unlike Liberty, where she taught for many years, SEBTS is an ‘official’ SBC entity, and what they say goes. And she went, taking her talent for literature and writing with her. I wondered if she would open up about her thoughts on what happened and how it affected her. She did and it t is worth reading. In November, I wrote about some of her thoughts: Do You Think You Can Change an Abusive Church or Institution? Thoughts by Dr. Karen Swallow Prior.
…I thought for a long time I could help the church (or at least my slice of it) change. I could take a community and denomination rife with racism, cronyism, misogyny and abuse and change it.
How foolish I was.
…Sometimes we don’t see who or what a person — or institution — is because of our own history, experiences, upbringing, expectations and blind spots
…here are other times when people don’t show who they are at first. Some are skilled with smoke and mirrors.
…Just as important is owning our own misplaced trust in ourselves or self-pride in thinking our influence might be greater than it possibly could be; it’s also important not to bear the responsibility for what others have done or failed to do.
Ultimately, our responsibility is to know when it’s time to shake the dust off our feet (Matthew 10:14) — and then do it
After a few years of teaching at SEBTS, KSP shook the dust off her feet and got out.
KSP says the SBC could have done better when it comes to abuse. Way Better…
In February 2024, She wrote the following for Religion News Services: An open letter to the Southern Baptist Convention. It was subtitled, “Dear SBC, you don’t have to be this way.
Even more importantly, the church should be the place where abusers are dealt with swiftly and justly, where the abused have their needs more than met.
…You didn’t have to take the widow’s mite, over and over, millions of times, in the name of the Great Commission only to use it to pay for a $1.6 million renovation of a seminary president’s home, a $2.5 million retirement home for another seminary president, espresso machines, hunting trophies, fake scrolls, lawsuits and legal settlements for evil deeds done in darkness and the lawyers who defend those evildoers.
…You didn’t have to file an amicus brief in favor of those who ignored horrific child sexual abuse and against the one abused in a case that doesn’t involve you (but surely does involve your financial interests in another case).
…You didn’t have to come to court in support of the abuser instead of the abused just because he is one of your own
…You ignored the “open secret” that one of the leading architects of your current iteration is allegedly a serial sexual predator who couldn’t even get clearance to serve in the government.
You put him and other abusive icons in your stained-glass windows.
She pointed out many other examples of the SBC’s failure in dealing with sexual abuse in its midst. As I read her words, I felt like I was reviewing articles in TWW or, as the late, great Johnny Cash would say, “You’ve been reading my mail.”
However, she has not finished outlining her concerns in the SBC.
Women and minorities are mere tokens in SBC institutions: Understanding the evangelical bro code.
Katelyn Beaty interviewed KSP and wrote How the Old Boys’ Club Ousted Karen Swallow Prior. It gives me much satisfaction to see them point out the “Good Old Boys Club,” an entity that I have shortened to “the boys” in my writings. I plan to continue to do so, especially after reading the following.
First, the old white men leaderschoose the young white men to replace themselves.
Within the SBC, formerly in institutions and informally in relationships, the leaders — who are all men — surround themselves with other men, generally younger men that are literally groomed to replace them. And this happens even in places where women and minorities are invited.
KSP was “invited” to the discussion table, but the decisions were already a done deal. Women and minorities had little say in the process.
There were several times when I was invited into a conversation to give input — or so I thought — but the decisions were really already a done deal, so it was more a matter of after the fact being able to say that certain people or certain different representatives were consulted and so were therefore part of the process. But the fact was that the actual process really didn’t consider the input that people from other perspectives could bring.
KSP is complementarian in her perspective, and she thought she would fit in the system. That wasn’t enough. She wasn’t a white male.
I grew up without the word complementarian in my vocabulary, but always believed in a male-only ordination, pastors, and eldership. Those were my long-time views, so I had no problem working in those spaces. I didn’t think there would be anything wrong with men leading institutions, and theoretically perhaps there isn’t. But what I saw was that because there’s such a priority placed on simply being male what ends up happening is that even men who should not have a voice or influence do — simply because the quality of being male is so high on the list of qualifications.
Even an abusive white male takes priority over women and minorities.
I saw abusive men have a voice, so much of a voice that those voices do take priority over other voices of those who aren’t within the circles.
…Being a man covers a lot of sins.
Incompetent men cannot succeed outside of the protection of “the boys.”
How often have we and others decried the speaking platforms in which money is paid to those who adhere to the “bro code?”
There’s a vicious cycle that gets set up when men who lack competence are surrounded by likeminded people and then get propped up and platformed and paid and promoted in these circles, to the point where, for all intents and purposes, they are probably unemployable or at least less employable outside those circles. That becomes a trap. The only option is to stay inside the circle.
When do those who see the problems become complicit in the problems?
At what point are we not so much bringing change as becoming complicit? That’s the key question and it’s not always easy to answer, but we always have to be asking it, because at some point we just become part of the problem rather than the solution.
Katelyn Beaty summarizes the problem of complicity beautifully.
It strikes me that the solution you’re offering isn’t so much about fixing those people out there. It’s that if you find yourself within a particular setting where you recognize you are being walked all over, conscripted, silenced when you’re raising questions, you can leave. You don’t have to go along with it.
I am grateful that KSP is using her writing skills to benefit the abused, women, minorities, and the rest of the forgotten people. Her voice is needed and appreciated.
And all the bros and bro wannabe’s slap their ears to the beat saying in unison:
“la, la, la, la, la.”
I read her open letter.
Scorching in it’s (very partial) list of sins committed by those in “controllership”.
They should hang their heads in shame. They won’t though since their heads are so inflated and bolstered by their own self-importance which is reinforced by their sycophants and salaries.
Every member of the SBC that reads her letter should demand that their church leave such a sinfully poisonous organization and stop supporting the SBC. It is beyond saving.
By not leaving, the “good” churches and pastors give their tacit approval of the organization and it’s agenda – which is clearly not to “set free the oppressed” as Jesus (their purported example) said in Luke 4:18.
At this point the SBC’s very existence is a pox upon Christianty and an active blasphemy of what Christ came to earth for.
To the pastors and churches who are not sold out to their evil agenda – please leave the SBC.
To the members that are horrified at what the SBC has become, take your money and time, leave the SBC, and put those resources some place else that will do some good with them and not blaspheme His name like the SBC is doing.
“Abusive White Men Have Priority Over Women, Minorities, and Abuse Victims”
When and where … over all time and all places … has this not been the case?
(If you are a white male, especially an older white male, please don’t answer this question. If this simple request bothers you, then please please please, especially, don’t answer this question. Even more so, if you’re an older white male of the clergy variety. Thx.)
I think the SBC thought they could use KSP to make themselves look “woman-friendly,” but KSP figured out she was being used and silenced. Good for her; I’m not sure I could just burn my bridges like that.
My brother: His toe was removed on Saturday, along with the wound on the foot that started all of this. It’s all stitched up nicely. He’s still in the hospital until his doctors are satisfied his white blood count has dropped. My brother would like to go home. The hospital is noisy and boring.
She (Swallow-Prior) could learn from the Bene Gesserit witches and profit greatly by it.
Ava Aaronson,
So what’s the end goal of this whole exercise?
To remove any legitimacy from old white men simply because they’re white and mature?
Not relevant to the OP, but my sons live in Youngsville. Small world!
I think that part of the forms of the self-delusion of thinking one can, starting from a place of weakness in a power hierachy, change an institution is that one tends to project ones hopes and goals onto the people one hopes to influence. They may listen and seem to welcome your input, but usually they are using you for their own purposes, which you may not clearly perceive.
IMO, if an institution is already clearly articulating and pursuing what you think is right, it will be possible for you to help the institution move further in that direction. If it is not, it will rarely be possible to meaningfully promote the changes you think are needed. Your efforts will be subsumed into the agendas that the leaders want to pursue and have the power to pursue. In the end you are likely to regret your investment.
Decades ago, I read somewhere that you should not imagine that you can change a dysfunctional church — your efforts will almost always be fruitless. I didn’t believe it the. Now, older, wiser and sadder, I do believe it.
I think that Scott McKnight has written about institutional change. It requires power and time. Maybe a Seminary President could effect meaningful change, if he could bring the Trustees and the donors to share his vision. A professor? Not a chance.
As I have said for years: if, in hiring or promotion decisions, one qualification becomes the only relevant one, pretty soon all your hires will have this one qualification only.
If having received male plumbing at birth is the only relevant qualification for some job, you’ll end up with candidates whose main or only qualification is being male.
Not even a history of barely concealed predation will change that.
Another example: if the only relevant qualification for public service is loyalty to the president, pretty soon you will find a steady stream of people whose only “qualification” is loyalty to a person, not the country, populating the halls of, for instance, the White House.
Complementarian views have very limited biblical support, and there are a few Southern Baptists who have the intellectual ability and the influence to make a difference if they change their minds. It would be a bold move for someone like Al Mohler, but it could be a game changer for Southern Baptists. And it would certainly mean that his legacy as a leader would survive into the future when everyone recognizes that God has poured out his Spirit on “both men and women” (Acts 2:18). The Baptist Faith and Message makes complementarian views an essential, and it will take spiritual boldness by a few courageous leaders bring change. May God grant the church a modern day Peter who recognized God’s acceptance of Gentiles (Acts 10)—may God grant us someone who recognizes and affirms God’s full and equal acceptance of females.
Whew! KSP has been reading my mail indeed! I deeply appreciate her courage to speak truth over the SBC mess. I kept thinking an SBC President would rise from the ranks to nail 95 theses to the door (e.g. Bart Barber), but they have either wimped out our held to the party line.
For Southern Baptists still sitting on the fence and reading this, KSP points her trumpet your way:
“Ultimately, our responsibility is to know when it’s time to shake the dust off our feet (Matthew 10:14) — and then do it.”
After decades of trying to make a difference within SBC churches to no avail, I shook the dust off a few years ago. I found it liberating and refreshing to enter the Done ranks … done with SBC, but not done with Jesus.
should read “wimped out OR held to the party line”
Here is a different way of looking at things, and I personally believe it leads to more personal peace and joy.
First, know what you believe. Second, if you feel compelled to practice what you believe in a group setting, find a group that believes what you believe.
I never “got” why some are so determined to join a group with the intent of changing it. The members of that group are apparently happy with it as it is. Move on and find or form your own group.
For the record, I don’t believe the drivel that all white males, especially older ones, are somehow abusive or just “wrong” for being older white males. That dog don’t hunt with me anymore than saying all black people have rhythm or all Hispanics are hot blooded or all Irish are prone to drink too much and have kissed the blarney stone.
I truly do not understand picking a group and being hung up on their misdeeds for decades. Only makes the angry person sick and never changes the group.
At some point it is time to move on and quit picking the scab.
So I would say to all women not liking the stands taken by the SBC or LCMS regarding women to just walk away. Find a compatible group.
And sow peace, not strife.
Al Mohler was the architect behind the 2000 revision of the Baptist Faith & Message, which engraved “the beauty of complementary” into SBC life. He’s too intellectual for his own good. Mohler was vicious about his view of the role of women in the church when he assumed the presidency of Southern Seminary. He ain’t going back at this point. Southern Baptists would have to look for another hero of the faith to put women back into the Kingdom.
WHAT “Evangelical Imagination”?
Max,
I am more hopeful. If Peter could repent when challenged face to face by Paul (Galatians 2), a change of mind and direction by Al Mohler would be one of the greatest demonstrations of the power of God’s Spirit in the 21st century. Who knows, perhaps he has come to his “position for such a time as this” (Esther 4:14)!
His legacy is sealed. Dr. Mohler almost single-handedly Calvinized the largest non-Calvinist denomination in America! The stealth and deception of his band of Mohlerites to plant and takeover SBC churches for the glory of the New Calvinist movement is legendary. His strategy was brilliant … educate a new generation of reformers at SBC seminaries, fire them up with speeches about reformed theology being the only viable option for doing church, and turn them loose on millions of unsuspecting non-Calvinist Southern Baptists. He certainly has a passion for his mission, but it is a misplaced passion … this will be his legacy.
Sandy Williams,
Well, there’s always hope. I guess there is always the remote possibility that a prophet of God will point a finger in Dr. Mohler’s face, causing him to humble himself and repent. But, I’m holding out hope for a new generation of SBC leaders to come to their spiritual senses and turn this thing around, rather than trying to change the hearts of the old guys. But God …
Max,
I am so hopeful that it may even be a prophetess who points the finger! Wow! Wouldn’t that be something to behold.
DO IT LORD!!!
(essentially, that’s what KSP is doing)
Well put. I can’t stand all that silly categorization either.
In business, we recognize that a turn-around can be affected if and only if the leader is brought in explicitly to change the direction of the organization and has the authority and support to do so. Unless you have been brought in to “turn-around” the SBC or other entity, you have no chance to do so.
Yes.
Al’s cold lifeless stare during this Q&A session at SBTS is not a good indication that this is the “intellectual” you are looking for:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jk_VQgsjFz8
Agreed.
On behalf of us older-than-dirt white males who don’t resemble that remark, I say thank you.
So, KSP was nothing more than the token woman at SEBTS, window dressing….. meant to be seen, but never heard. (A publicity stunt used to keep other women captive?)
Somehow, I’m not surprised. At one of my former SBC churches, I was chosen to be on a committee appointed to oversee the purchase of an adjacent property, and to have a new building on constructed on that property. I was the only woman on that committee, and I quickly learned that all they wanted was a secretary to keep meticulous records on the committee’s discussions and decisions.
If Peter could repent when challenged face to face by Paul (Galatians 2), a change of mind and direction by Al Mohler would be one of the greatest demonstrations of the power of God’s Spirit in the 21st century.
Sandy Williams,
Not going to happen. Peter followed Jesus.
If Al Mohler follows anyone besides Al Mohler, it’s Calvin ….. or Piper, or Grudem, or MacArthur……..
Max,
I agree with Linda. A lot of white males are wonderful, humble people….. like you and Muff. I think it would be a blast to meet both of you in person, and go fishin’!
(Can’t remember for sure…. but it seems like Muff had said once that he is part Native American? I am too, but just barely…. only 1/16th, with pale skin, light eyes and hair.)
Makes no difference. Good and bad both come in all creeds, colors, and ancestral DNA.
Please make sure you note that it is ABUSIVE white men, not white men.
Today I had to put my little Tulip to sleep. We had her for 8 years. She was almost 13 when she died. She was a feisty dog who lived life in her own unique way. I will miss her terribly.
dee,
Sorry to hear this Dee. Tulip had a good life with you.
SBC leaders have a few of them scattered around at seminaries and on committees. It makes them feel less oppressive toward women than they really are.
linda,
“I don’t believe the drivel that all white males, especially older ones, are somehow abusive or just “wrong” for being older white males.”
+++++++++++++++
i agree.
I see the issue as people with power favoring those who look like them and who are in their demographic. and not thinking beyond that.
because they don’t have to.
they are not challenged to think any further.
feeling no challenge within themselves, having no need to challenge themselves, and experiencing no challenge from others beyond themselves.
at least no challenge that they don’t dismiss like flicking away a bug, feeling righteously justified in doing so.
it’s comfortable. easy.
lukewarm water.
it means the decisions and policies favor those who look them and who are in their demographic, and the consequences of such land on others sometimes with life-destroying impact.
it’s stupid, immoral, destructive, and worth calling out.
especially when done in the name of God and Jesus.
linda,
“So I would say to all women not liking the stands taken by the SBC or LCMS regarding women to just walk away. Find a compatible group.
And sow peace, not strife.”
+++++++++++++++++++++
if favoritism amongst those in power weren’t destructive to others, then maybe.
but it is. and it’s done in the name of God and Jesus. on a huge public platform.
it is very much worth taking a stand.
in kind — on a huge public platform.
It’s right here:
https://www.amazon.com/Evangelical-Imagination-Stories-Metaphors-Created/dp/1587435756
But you might be alluding to Mark Noll’s book The Scandal of the Evangelical Mind, in which he claims, “The scandal of the evangelical mind is that there is not much of an evangelical mind.”
dee,
I’m so sorry, Dee. She will be missed. I remember when you got her.
Indeed!
Meanwhile, over at Liberty University:
“Liberty University fined a historic $14 million for failing to report crimes on campus … The fine imposed on the evangelical Christian university is the largest ever against a school for violating the Clery Act, which requires support for sexual violence survivors and campus safety initiatives”
https://19thnews.org/2024/03/liberty-university-14-million-fine-clery-act-sexual-violence/
Unlike the one who told a reporter today that he couldn’t vote for haley because she’s female. (North Carolina voter BTW)
Dee, sorry to hear about Tulip.
The current latest cultural phase: https://www.voguebusiness.com/story/fashion/what-the-rise-of-babygirl-men-means-for-fashion
That’s what the SBC needs – baby girl men.
And most likely a Southern Baptist!
dee,
I’m sorry to hear about Tulip, too.
{Our Lizzie (aka Queen Elizabeth III) is here beside me, now. She was a very sick shelter puppy when we adopted her on Oct. 3, 2012.}
I know you made it possible for Tulip to have a wonderful 8 years that she never would have dreamed of when the two of you first met.
Yes, I am about 3/4 Native (Wisconsin). I was adopted at a very young age and raised by Danes and Germans in the town of Racine. So yeah, I do get a bit touchy (not you Nancy, I speak in broad and general terms) when the ‘woke’ left makes white people the butt of their contempt and jokes.
dee,
Me and mrs. muff know exactly what you’re going through. We’ve had to have beloved dogs put down too. They are not just ‘like family’, they are family.
Noted.
In any case, it’s a question: When and where … over all time and all places … has this not been the case, that “abusive white men are prioritized over women, minorities, and abuse victims”?
I thought it would be preferable to hear from the targets and not the bystanders.
Historically, for this prioritization to be prominent down through the ages, it takes those in power and lots of non targeted bystanders. Not targets, not abusers, just bystanders holding the system in place. Down through the ages.
The bible has sexism baked right in. Fundamentalism (so-called) believes a literal bible. Stories that were written before any concept of democracy. The idea of any sort of human rights as we understand them would be anathema to people of the ancient world (just like it was for Martin Luther).
The bible is a reflection of its time.
As an older white male, we’re not any more evil than the rest of the population but society as a whole is grappling with a post colonial world and it’s causing some uncomfortable conversations. There’s a swath of people who had a very different American/Canadian/Western European experience. Just ask those that lived through the Indian residential schools. While the constitution is an amazing document, it’s principles have not been applied equally in history.
It’s not a “group” problem, it’s a systemic one.
dee,
I’m so sorry about your loss, Dee.
dee,
We have had a significant number of “rescue” dogs and it always very sad/sobering when “there time has come”…. The quirky one we miss the most…
Say something about old white guys controlling the narrative, then watch old white guys control the narrative.
It’s the only trick they know.
What/Where are different scenarios? Many examples in the Gospels. We don’t hear those stories preached much. Who is doing the preaching?
Jack,
God made the Bible be written the way it is in order to catch the forcible misinterpreters forcibly misinterpreting (and us impolitely pointing it out in public), and shall ask them questions about it in the hereafter they don’t believe in. The Bible explains the kingdom of God backwards and much of Gensis is just so stories. Euphemisms and / or Roman cues are throughout. It’s not only christianity adherents that the goons have damaged: they have stoked up jewish schoolboys and hindutva followers.
The war against women is the same war as the war against boys. Look how they turned Falwell junior into worse than a wimp, look what they did to RZ at age 17 on his hospital bed, what they did to Aaron Long by “restoring” him, what they did to the younger Ortbergs, the younger Smyth . . .
In my young day when religion had far more influence women and girls were regarded as collaborators for men and boys (but an ill then was unequal pay), and other men and boys were regarded as allies and not vermin to be destroyed after use. The RE teacher who, when religion went “trendy” in a wrong way, turned “civics” department head whose acolytes told us 14 year olds we should consider “having” sex, himself groomed a boy then fled.
My very blokish pal dropped his wrists and talked nasal (glandular). We knew the variety in older costumes from illustrations. I remember when tastes overlapped greatly but no-one, especially not statutory institutions, made a fuss about an individual’s tastes. For women over about 21, makeup was lipstick and nose powder only.
Jesus Himself said “the Spirit gives life” and that is even in the Bible but ignored by those goons. I was expecting you Dee to cover KSP’s latest.
Nancy2(aka Kevlar),
From 6 to 18 I was the sallowest in my class, which comes more from one of my non-Jewish English sides and one of my non-Jewish foreign sides, than from my English Jewish woman ancestress who played the drums. I always felt a lot in common with non “whites” but then I also assumed everyone else was different from each other, as well. Three of my grandparents changed religion twice when that was a less done thing.
Not the boy (probably village hooligan) with the bread and fish (family shopping) under his (sweaty) armpit whom the disciples (inspiredly) headhunted, for sure.
Max,
I read that in Australia, some boys felt not right apologising (at political behest) to girls SOLELY for being boys. One might even imagine that they (seculars) intuited the example of Daniel in repenting before God in prayer BY PROXY because the evangelical bosses haven’t heard of it for sure and what about the enmity the latter showed other boys all along as well anyway.
Otherwise, you’ll be pushing them in the direction of Self-Defense White Supremacy, i.e. “If we don’t stomp them down, they’re going to stomp us down. It’s Them or Us.”
Pushing all other men in the direction of Andrew Tate and Doug Wilson.
In any case, the fashion industry is about as detached from reality as you can get.
Especially when you factor in the shock value of “See How EDGY I Am?”
Many years ago, there was a common rumor going around that Fashion Designers were all homosexuals (if not pedos) whose designs reflected what turned them on sexually (and nobody else). The same detachment in an echo-chamber bubble as Hollywood and a lot of churches.
How can God’s Predestined Special Pet “change mind and direction” when He already Can Do No Wrong?
Any change away from Absolute Perfection and Utter Godliness is by definition a decline.
If he doesn’t have a crazy lady in the room across the corridor yelling 24/7, the hospital ain’t noisy.
That’s what happened to me when I was hospitalized after emergency surgery 17 years ago.
I wish this old white guy could control the SBC narrative right now!
Human history: Men have acted with testosterone since the beginning of human history. If you continue to think men are different now then they were 6,000 years ago you’re not learning Solomonic Wisdom; “There is nothing new under the sun” [ especially when it comes to human behavior ]
If you think this is limited to SBC leadership, you’re a really lousy historian.
*
Karen Swallow Prior has her own narrative which actually reflects her bias.
Have they rung in the “PERSECUTION!!!!!!!” Card yet?
Fragmentary memory of a 1960s-vintage (the height of the Civil Rights Movement) MAD Magazine I read as a kid, a filksong titled “The Negro We Hired” (tune unknown, from a 55-year-old fragmented memory):
“We keep him in a desk
Right by the door
In case someone visits
From VISTA or CORE;
He knows what his place is,
We’ll see…
If not quickly fired
That N******r we’ve hired
Will Be!
— MAD Magazine
I *think* the tune is probably that of “The Girl That I Marry,” by Irving Berlin, featured in his musical, *Annie, Get Your Gun.*
I loved MAD Magazine when I was a kid.
And fetch coffee when they rang their bell?
So sorry. Our doggies really are family.
OT, but mo surprise!
https://www.foxnews.com/media/liberty-university-fined-14-million-dept-education-over-failure-comply-with-campus-safety-standards.amp
Jack,
Well put, and I concur.
There is no easy ‘labeling’ and categorization for old ‘white’ men.
There is no easy ‘labeling’ and categorization for old ‘white’ men.
Muff Potter,
Male or female…. white, black, brown, red, yellow, any combination….. An honest effort to slap labels on any of us with, ahem, a few years in life experience would look like a torn-paper scrap collage…… or the end result of a lengthy paintball fight.
I couldn’t access this as I don’t have a “Vogue” subscription. Baby-girl men indeed, say. No. More.
Whatever floats your boat.
Glad you’re moving up from “the Real McCain and Smitty”
Let me know the results of your next dating quiz in “Cosmo” – it is possible he’s just not that into you.
Headless Unicorn Guy,
Yes
Yeah it’s not as easy as it looks. When I was recruiting for my harem, all I got was various epithets and a restraining order. Do you know how difficult it is to pick up chicks in a twenty year old beige Toyota Corolla?
If we could only go back to Solomon’s time, you know before antibiotics made us all wimps. Yeah, when the real men survived. When you could have good discussion with a donkey.
If we could bring back that old testament magic…
seneca,
And hers is as impelse’s. And wieth listening to as any one elses.
Bridget,
Wow! I don’t remember that looking like that when I posted it. I swear there’s a little elf running across my keyboard.
Her narrative and bias is as important and worth listening to as anyone else’s.
linda,
Yes, yes, yes, and yes. Excellent observations.
seneca,
Strangely enough, there are huge numbers of men who manage to not let their testosterone determine every waking thought and every single action¹. Who manage to interact with women as friends or colleagues without looking down on them or objectifying them, or both.
And it seems that outside fundigelical culture it’s easier for men to not be a**holes².
—
¹Mind you, I’m mot dissing testosterone – it has its moments 😉
²The current regression in male behavior towards women seems to be a byproduct, at least partially, of the current regression in behavior propagated by the current crop of reactionaries posing as “conservatives”.
I’m so sorry, Dee….
seneca,
Solo Testerono?
Sounds about right.
Here’s another song fragment from MAD – “Lunatic Fringe”, to the tune of “My Favorite Things”:
“Stark raving Pinkos and mobs that are lawless,
Right Wing fanatics parading for Wallace,
Gun-toting Nazis on a Jew-hunting binge,
These are just some of The Lunatic Fringe…”
Same here – “WHAT? ME WORRY?”
Plus listening to Dr Demento (which should have given me a degree in Novelty Songs).
Someone once said “Blood makes you related. Love makes you family.”
I never had a dog that didn’t love me unconditionally.
++++++++++++++++++
I like that way of putting it.
Jack,
“As an older white male, we’re not any more evil than the rest of the population but society as a whole is grappling with a post colonial world and it’s causing some uncomfortable conversations. There’s a swath of people who had a very different American/Canadian/Western European experience.“
+++++++++++++++++++
Yes… I’m about to mix metaphors –
turning the ship of culture around is very slow-going. It starts with a big pendulum swing, of more information than can be processed well towards anything resembling general consensus.
In time things will even out with understanding.
I do believe that truth and justice will win out – albeit in an imperfect way.
I hope I’m still around to see some of it.
And just like a real luxury liner (big) it won’t turn on a dime cuz’ the inertia is so huge.
It’s gonna’ take awhile.
There’s no “evangelical bro code,” there’s just the Bro Code. It ain’t going away. Men aren’t women and never will be.
senecagriggs,
The full Bro Code is “Bros and Hos”.
And because of her anatomy, KSP is always going to be a Ho to the Bros.
I try to stay away from group affiliations.
I learned my lesson when I joined the “Archie” fan club (you know, the wholesome kid who mainstreamed bigamy).
I only joined because of Veronica. Then you realize Veronica and Betty are the same person when you switch their hair.
It just got confusing after that…
headless
“The full Bro Code is “Bros and Hos”.
And because of her anatomy, KSP is always going to be a Ho to the Bros.”
Ken that is totally inappropriate. Do not insult Karen Pryor Swallow.
senecagriggs,
i’m prone to stating the obvious — the searing remark is addressed to the Bros.
He’s pointing out that a segment of the christian men population is only able to see Karen’s worth as someone to use and exploit.
(but even men who’ve been turned into newts once can get better)
Title is true. And abuse is not just politics.
https://melodykayyoung.wixsite.com/website/post/so-you-wanna-vote-for-a-rapist-and-call-it-pro-life