Curiosity’s ‘Postcard’ of ‘Marker Band Valley’ NASA
“Of all tyrannies a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive.” C. S. Lewis
I don’t believe one word from the SBC Executive Committee. Also, over the past several months, I have come to distrust the reports of the Sex Abuse Implementation Task Force, which may or may not have changed its name to the Abuse Response Commission (ARC). That unfortunate acronym sends shivers down the spines of those acquainted with the oft-reported Association of Related Churches.
What is going on with the database initiative? The hotline?
The abbreviations of SATF, SAITF, and ARC are confusing, particularly as they change without any progress on the abuse database. It appears that the various volunteers and those of us cheering them on were foolish to imagine that the SBC would ever attach their name and their money to such an endeavor. Yes, they gave money to “study” and “implement,” but we were naive to imagine this process would progress without a hitch.
Christa Brown was the first to call foul on the entire process. William Thornton at SBC Voices expressed doubt on multiple occasions that the SBC would fund a database of accused and credibly accused pastoral offenders. Thornton also questioned how the money was, is, and will be spent as this committee (whatever their name) moves along. They were both proven right.
In the midst of this, a hotline was established for victims to report abuse. There were reports that hundreds of calls were being made. Christa Brown wondered what was going on with those reports. Who answered the calls? Were the callers offered help? Were reports being made to authorities? I don’t know. ‘They’ won’t tell us.
The SAITF said the process was cumbersome and that a nonprofit should be formed to implement the cumbersome task. Groups within the SBC said they would not allow their money to be used for such a task. That baby sounded dead on arrival.
In the background, rumors were circulating that the SBC Executive Committee, and perhaps other groups, were having trouble getting insurance coverage for sex abuse situations.
As all of this was developing, a new situation entered the mess, which made it even messier.
The DOJ investigation begins.
In August 2023, TWW wrote “We Made Mistakes.” The SBC Still Hasn’t Learned That Sex Abuse and Coverup Is a Crime. Maybe the DOJ Will Educate Them.
The Statement from the SBC leaders/entities link
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE – August 12, 2022
The SBC Executive Committee recently became aware that the Department of Justice has initiated an investigation into the Southern Baptist Convention, and that the investigation will include multiple SBC entities.
Individually and collectively each SBC entity is resolved to fully and completely cooperate with the investigation. While we continue to grieve and lament past mistakes related to sexual abuse, current leaders across the SBC have demonstrated a firm conviction to address those issues of the past and are implementing measures to ensure they are never repeated in the future. The fact that the SBC Executive Committee recently completed a fully transparent investigation is evidence of this commitment.
We recognize our reform efforts are not finished. In fact, those efforts are continuing this very moment as the recently announced Abuse Reform Implementation Task Force begins its work and as each entity has strengthened its efforts to protect against abuse. Our commitment to cooperate with the Department of Justice is born from our demonstrated commitment to transparently address the scourge of sexual abuse.
While so many things in the world are uncertain, we can be certain that we serve a mighty God. Nothing, including this investigation, takes Him by surprise. We take comfort in that and humbly ask you be in prayer in the days and weeks ahead. Specifically, we ask God to grant wisdom and discernment to each person dealing with the investigation.
Well, good for the DOJ. Maybe they could make some sense of the SBC’s sexual abuse history. So, we all sat back to wait for anything to come out of this investigation. After all, the Executive Committee maintained a secret list. Indeed, that should count for something. We all waited silently since the DOJ does not discuss their ongoing investigation.
The DOJ investigation ends, according to Jonathan Howe, Interim EC Prez
Religion News Services reproted on March 6, 2024: Department of Justice closes investigation into SBC Executive Committee’s handling of abuse.
“On February 29, 2024, counsel for the SBC Executive Committee was informed that the US Attorney’s Office for the Southern District of New York has concluded its investigation into the EC with no further action to be taken,” Jonathan Howe, Executive Committee interim president and CEO, told Religion News Service in a text responding to a request for comment.
It looks like this pending DOJ investigation caused issues for the SBC. Money, lawsuits, and settlements, oh my!
The Executive Committee has reported that the DOJ investigation has added to its growing legal expenses in recent years. The committee also faces ongoing civil lawsuits, including one filed by a former denominational president named in the 2022 abuse report from Guidepost Solutions.
Last December, several SBC entities settled a lawsuit prompted by years of alleged sexual abuse by legendary SBC leader and retired Texas judge Paul Pressler.
Dee was off her game. She should never, ever trust anything that the EC boys say. Note: Howe did not wave a paper showing a nice note from the DOJ bidding him farewell.
Has the DOJ investigation been called off?
On March 8, 2024, Bob Smietanaof RNS posted What Is Happening With the SBC and the Department of Justice?
abuse survivors and advocates such as Megan Lively and Tiffany Thigpen. They reached out to Department of Justice investigators, who they say told them the investigation was ongoing. Both said they were told the lead DOJ investigator had no more questions for the Executive Committee but that the investigation remains open.
“The lead investigator from the DOJ concerning this investigation was as surprised as we were by these reports. She answered both Megan and I immediately when we called (separately) and said the investigation is very much open and active,” Thigpen told Religion News Service in a text message.
RNS asked for confirmation.
A staff member in the press office of the U.S. Attorney’s Office for the Southern District of New York said she could not comment on investigations. When asked whether the attorney general’s office disputed the statement made by the SBC Executive Committee, the staff member had no comment.
An attorney for the SBC also declined to comment.
According to Baptist Press, Criminal considerations aside, Southern Baptists want abuse reform, ARITF says.
(March 7,2024) The SBC Executive Committee released a statement on March 6 saying it had been informed there would be no further action taken in the investigation that was launched in 2022. In August 2022, a statement from SBC entity leaders and SBC President Bart Barber said multiple SBC entities were involved in the DOJ investigation.
Legal counsel for the SBC has since confirmed that the investigation into the SBC as a whole remains open and ongoing, however, the DOJ has never made a public statement about the investigation and BP’s requests for comments were not returned on March 5 and March 7.
So, it appears the DOJ investigation is ongoing, and Jonathan Howe and the rest of the EC leadership are left with an egg on their faces.
The abuse group, currently known as ARITF, stated in Baptist Press:
In a statement posted on its website Thursday, the Abuse Reform Implementation Task Force (ARITF) said, “Southern Baptists initiated the work of sexual abuse reform not in response to criminal inquiries or threats of lawsuits but due to an increasing burden and awareness that vulnerable people were suffering harm in many of our churches and institutions, which were vastly under resourced to care for and protect them.”
“Irrespective of any actions the Department of Justice may or may not take, the goal of abuse reform is to ensure SBC churches and entities are consistently able to protect and care for the vulnerable with the love and compassion of Jesus Christ,” the group said.
I’m sure the ARITF, soon to be known as ARC, thinks the SBC didn’t do this due to threatened lawsuits, but I’m afraid I have to disagree. It has to do with money, and the current SBC leadership is weighing whether the sex abuse reform is worth it. If the dollars don’t add up, the soon-to-be-called ARC and its database will be on the chopping block. Christa Brown and William Thornton were right all along.
Did Howe think to call the abuse victims before his announcement? With whom did he consult before issuing his statement that the DOJ was out of the picture?
What may have happened after JD Greear cried the crocodile tears?
I think the EC and BFFs had no intention of letting this database be anything more than a simple recounting of who went to prison. Even the sex offender list was too much for them. I believe they wouldn’t have allowed it since someone would need to remove names from the list when offenders were officially removed. The SBC saw potential lawsuits for database mistakes.
The mistake I made was believing that they might want to do a database. For just a moment, I thought they were on board and really cared about solving the problem. However, look at the silence surrounding the hotline. What are they doing with the hundreds of reports? Maybe this is something for the DOJ to investigate. The ones who are hurt the most are the abuse victims who, once again, see political maneuvering to protect the institution first, and, if there is bandwidth, they could set up a slimmed-down version that might look like they care. Do they?
In the meantime, they will need to go onto something far more pressing. Well, more pressing for them, not the victims. The SBC needs to boot those churches which make the mistake of putting a woman’s name next to the word “pastor.” There is a witch hunt ahead and you can be sure that it will demonstrate what the boys in the SBC really care about.
Dee, respectfully as one member of the LCMS to another, how can you continue to castigate the SBC about tossing churches that put pastor next to a woman’s name, when you know that would not fly in our synod either?
You are doing so much good in regards to the sex abuse scandal. I do fear mixing in the issue of women’s ordination or women with the title pastor while remaining in a church that does not ordain women gives the enemy ammunition.
Those you want to reach may find your stand hypocritical, thus negating anything good and important you have to say.
Peace!
Someone once said:
“Ignoring things won’t make them go away. It only makes it harder to face them when they finally come around.”
Evil is convoluted, complicated, and twisted, always. Lies upon lies. Like that fake “Oxford” guy who personality-led his way into creating his inner circle to take over a Boston church; he can’t do the plain and simple show his credentials cuz he is up to no good.
Good is simple and straightforward. Truth.
Rather than get all twisted up in following the wild trail down the rabbit holes of these evil fake church people, Jesus said to shake the dust off sandals and walk away. Abandon them and call it a day.
LE and DOJ? There’s a time and place, but that’s long AFTER the damage has been done to minors.
Attorney Jeff Anderson has successfully used the DOJ to call out the grand RCC org in his arena and hit it where it hurts … the pocketbook. Money. So much so that in Anderson Associates own state of MN, the Archdiocese hired a top BCA guy to require training and filtering of all who work with minors in the RCC in MN. Effective? Guessing Anderson would know.
Note: Jeff Anderson is an old white guy who was NEVER a bystander talking about the good old days golden decades of church (when actually minors were being violated – Anderson’s criminal cases date back to those white guy bystander days).
“Maybe this is something for the DOJ to investigate.”
USA freedom of religion with separation of church and state means a lot goes on, or potentially, that the DOJ will not address. It behooves church people to attend to their children, and guard their trust.
Evil is complicated in darkness. Good is simple straightforward and well-lit. But one has to keep eyes open. Don’t blink. At least not in church.
You would think by now that millions of Southern Baptists would have found it just too exhausting to keep chasing rabbits. Everytime they turn around, it seems there’s another rabbit hole to fall in. But, I suppose as long as they don’t care about the dust on their sandals, they’ll just keep doing church the way they always have and pay no attention to the shenanigans at SBC headquarters.
If you snooze, you lose.
linda,
I think that Dee is not criticizing SBC stance on female ordination per se ; she is drawing attention to the contrast between the obvious SBC zeal to root out female ordination from the Convention with the evident lack of zeal to deal with the abuse of flock that is being perpetrated by ordained persons in SBC congregations.
I think she is attempting to shame the SBC by showing that it is capable of dealing with problems that it takes seriously.
linda,
Well, I supported a Congregational church. I support many nondenominational churches which do not practice communion and baptism from the same perspective.
The LCMS solved this problem years ago (1970s.) They split and wrote up a careful perspective on their polity, etc. Because of this well thought out move, the LCMS does not face the same problem as the SBC.
Go back to the founding of the SBC. There was a racial element which led to its founding. Today, many of the African American assemblies in the SBC have women pastors and have had them since the beginning of their churches.
The SBVC, ever the snail, sat around twiddling their thumbs as society was changing. Suddenly, in the middle to the society which sees women in powerful positions (VPof the US), this group decides to “act.” It is stupid and it will harm the SBC in the long run. What will happen to the Black churches? Many are threatening to leave,
Bottom line: Don’t change via back tracking. I support my LCMS church. I joined accepting where they were at.
Be careful using the hypocrite word. I have struggled and thought through the issues involved and am at peace. I still think the SBC is stupid and they will be hurt by this witch hunt.
One of my Lutheran pastors asked me this question a few years back. “Why is the SBC changing at this time? Why didn’t they do it years ago?
I explained what I have said here. This is going to be a racial issue for the SBC and a backtracking of what was going on and allowed with a wink and a handshake.
PS I checked to see if I needed to attest to YEC which is in their “what we believe section (of central LCMS.) I was told I did not have to do so. Am I a hypocrite there as well since I hold to theistic evolution?
Samuel Conner,
See my comment to Linda. There is a difficult racial element to this as well.
Samuel Conner,
We are complex people, aren’t we? My travels throughout the evangelical world have exposed me to so much.
ALTERNATIVE FACTS(TM), of course.
So “The Beauty of Complementarity” and “Biblical Manhood/Womanhood” and No Female Pastors are the latest code phrases for “Whites Only”?
(“GOD Saith” is a very old one.)
All the more argument that ‘one-size-fitz-all’ doesn’t work.
For those convinced of their own righteousness while they despise everyone else, Jesus said:
“Two people went up to the temple area to pray; one was a Pharisee and the other was a tax collector. The Pharisee took up his position and spoke this prayer to himself,
“‘O God, I thank you that I am not like the rest of humanity — greedy, dishonest, adulterous — or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week, and I pay tithes on my whole income.’
“But the tax collector stood off at a distance and would not even raise his eyes to heaven but pounded his chest and prayed,
“‘O God, be merciful to me a sinner.’
“I tell you, the latter went home justified, not the former; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and the one who humbles himself will be exalted.” from Luke 18
“For I desire love not sacrifice,” God speaking via Hosea, ch. 6.
Finally, from Psalm 2, the kings of the earth, including kings of the church, set themselves up … and God laughs at the pseudo power, of these mighty powerful… little, small minded, tiny hearted, overblown gigantic ego, self entitled, “kings”, and yes, church kings.
Excellent response IMO to Linda.
And you’d think audiences would have had enough of Piper drivel and drool.
It’s circulating now that John Piper did another attention-grabbing stunt in a speech at MacMasters. Anyone in their right mind would have got up and left the room. Insane pulpitry.
The answer is to LEAVE. Enough. All of these guys and their orgs are nonprofits supported by donors.
Lots of koolaid drinking in USA churches and their orgs.
Sugar, paint, water. Koolaid.
He’s too theo-entertaining for the NeoCals I suppose
Good Lord! What did the Pied Piper say/do this time?! He’s only been able to stay afloat for so many years by coming up with some sort of whopper sensational “revelation” to keep the Piperites coming back for more. They proclaim “Wow Daddy Wow!” and continue to follow him to Lord knows where.
linda,
i highly doubt any of us signs on to every jot and tittle of a christian org’s stated and unstated doctrine.
(at least those of us who are still capable of critical thought)
we put up with as much as we can.
exclusive male leadership is dumb, stupid, and unethical. but kind and humble male leaders mitigate much.
Fake news
We have this under control. (Interpret “control” as you wish.)
Leave us alone.
Religious freedom.
For some reason the idea of women’s ordination is a major issue in churches, SBC, LCMS, PCA and so on. I will not attend a church which does not permit women in pastoral leadership. For many years my husband and I did but at our advanced age we have decided No More. We are blessed with one non denominational church and one Texas Baptist church in our area who both affirm women in pastoral leadership and egalitarian marriage, as well as holding to the essential beliefs from an evangelical standpoint. They reject the BFMM 2000, and are not linked to the SBC. We have to drive some distance but it’s worth it.We had decided to give up on attending church but we’re blessed to have found somewhere where complementarian ideas and male hierarchies do not hold sway. So many dangers of abuse , and the limitation of the mission of the Kingdom, arise from these controls .
We have to drive some distance but would rather go nowhere than
This is great. Thx for sharing.
Proverbs 31 says a godly women brings her family food from afar. Sometimes distance is worth it. As a couple, you found spiritual food from afar.
“So many dangers of abuse, and the limitation of the mission of the Kingdom, arise from these controls.”
Very true. Not everyone is in the same place on this, but IMHO, you are spot on. God bless.
It’s wonderful that as a couple you all agree on this. Somehow the hubby is not suffering, not threatened, not losing his manhood, not needing to prove manhood. Wonderful place to be as a couple. We need more like you two.
More, please.
There are Southern Baptist churches in my area that rejected BFM 2000, preferring to stick with the BFM 1963 as their statement of faith. They are becoming rare & endangered, but they do exist.
For those not blessed to attend church with us this morning in the chapel built by God’s own hands, the forsythia are in full bloom and larger than pickup trucks. All the trees that bloom white except the dogwood are in full bloom. Pink magnolias or tulip trees are rosy beauties. Redbuds are just beginning to grace us with their own pink/purple color. Pansies, grape hyacinths, hyacinths, daffodils, and paperwhites are blooming. Some of the pink and some white fruit bearing trees are beginning to bloom.
I think the trees of the fields are clapping their hands in praise to the Lord Jesus Christ.
Gello Max. Yes, some SBC churches do stick with the 1968 statement, but most of these do not affirm women in pastoral leadership and are increasingly leaning strongly towards Calvinism. The original ideas of the priesthood of each believer and soul competency are being lost to elder rule. As Arminian baptists in the tradition of Thomas Helwys, (1611, )we are not comfortable even in some of the 1968 SBC churches .
Ah well, fixing our eyes on Jesus, we press on…
Grainne Mcdonald,
Yes, long-standing Baptist doctrines of priesthood of ‘the’ believer and soul competency were diminished in the 2000 revision of the Baptist Faith & Message. You will never hear these truths preached in New Calvinist churches. The changes made to BFM2000 definitely trend toward Calvinism in belief and practice. When I realized that, I said bye-bye to SBC after 70 years … but, as I tell folks: I didn’t leave SBC; SBC left me.
Max–I wish I had a dollar for every time I also have said I did not leave the SBC, but it left me.
linda,
A once-great evangelistic Gospel-oriented, mission-minded denomination is now no more. I know that SBC has always had its problems with occasional bad-boys in the pulpit and national leadership (what denomination hasn’t) … but, IMO, it had it theological brains screwed on right (pre-Mohler).
You have ditched the Church of Andrew Tate and War Machine.
i.e. Going full-honk Pat Robertson?
My apologies, Linda, for slightly modifying your beautiful comment. 🙂
You’re far ahead of us where I live….nothing is in blossom yet. There MIGHT be some buds on some of the trees, but if so, they would be unusually early. And if there are any flowers starting to peek out, they would be crocuses. 🙂
I’d venture to say that only a small minority would find dee’s stand hypocritical.
After all, most rational and intelligent adults have long known that you (generic you) don’t have to eat the whole enchilada (so to speak) in order to stay with a particular religion and/or brand of theology.
I myself have gone over from the LCMS to the ELCA brand of Lutheranism because I could no longer (in good conscience) abide LCMS’s prohibition of women in the pulpit.
ION, I’m sure Wartburgers everywhere will be hoping that SpaceX do indeed get FAA approval for a Starship test launch this Thursday (and that it doesn’t have to be scrubbed!).
#GiantMachDiamonds
Muff Potter,
Muff, those Dee need to reach have their heads in—well, a very dark place lol. They are not acting like intelligent adults, and yes, being LCMS and criticizing the SBC for taking the stand the LCMS also takes will draw cries of foul and hypocrite. Of course we don’t eat the whole enchilada. Which means one can be SBC taking a strong stand on the word pastor when associated with women and not be supporting abuse. Or vice versa.
There is an old saying about those that live in glass houses not throwing stones . In this case, her work on abuse is far too important to blow it. I am not suggesting she has to leave the LCMS, but she should if she continues to criticize the SBC for stands the LCMS also takes. Or else focus on the abuse issues and not comment on those questionable areas where the LCMS and SBC are in agreement. Or include the LCMS in the comments she makes about the SBC on those issues.
Peace to all! Just spent a long day in the woods driving the truck pulling the logs for dh to cut up and load. Future firewood. Redbuds, wild cherries, wild plums, and hawthorn were in full bloom. Smelled soooo good. Off to get the pollen off lol.
Nick Bulbeck,
I too wish them Godpeed Nick.
I can almost hear William Shatner telling us all that space is the final frontier.
Nick Bulbeck,
Sorry. i want another giant Space X boom.
nmgirl,
Last time, we had both! However, I’m at least hoping for a successful boost-back burn next time.
This is one thing I really like about Lutheranism (both LCMS and ELCA).
They allow freedom of conscience.
In many of the ‘independents’ run by alpha-male strong-men, there is no such thing as freedom of conscience.
What the Chieftain (Pastor) says, goes, and you (generic you) don’t dare and disagree.
linda,
I am glad you showed you don’t understand what makes bad religion bad religion
We’ve got Weeping Angel infiltration, too?
(Doctor Who reference)
The Anglican Tradition nows no other way; it’s called “Muscular Christianity”.
Those of the SBC agitating for benighted 9Markist Mike Law’s amendment, would they embrace the concept of women as “commissioned ministers” as LCMS does? I doubt it.
Max,
Women who happen to have muscles detract from hedonism . . . ?