I’ve never noticed his constant eye blinking and weird facial expressions when he speaks. As a therapist, it’s a little unsettling to watch it.

Dee, welcome back, hope you’re feeling better.

Ick. What goes around, comes around–again and again? I’m appalled (but not surprised) at the “resurrection” of this nonsense. What does amaze and sadden me is that people are willing to spend money for this. Questions: is it for a younger generation unfamiliar with the earlier versions? Is Driscoll hurting for money and hopes to generate a few bucks? As you said, sex sells.
Condolences to Todd at being forced to see the billboards.

You would think that even New Calvinists would be sick of these clowns by now. The only way that they can both stay in the spotlight is to say something sensational, even if it is not Scriptural.

I wonder how much it costs to rent billboard space in the Phoenix area? Is that money coming out of the church coffer? Is Driscoll using the church coffer to line his personal coffer.

Nancy2(aka Kevlar),

Funny!

can’t imagine a ‘Christian’ religion that would refuse to take holy communion to the sick and to pray with them – 90% of the Catholic clergy during the time of the Black Death perished because they TOOK CARE OF the ones who were infected – the 10% of the clergy who lived were either resistant to the plague OR not worth their calling

Dever doesn’t sound like he’s read the Holy Gospels – his ‘priorities’ sound strangely out of sync with the teachings of Our Lord Himself –

Driscoll?
oh, please – still can’t get over him throwing his wife’s reputation under the bus, no – who does that? why his own wife (?) And the Driscoll’s have children!!!

Erp: Dever would probably show up pretty quickly if a sick but very rich person was asking for him.

I don’t know much about Mr. Dever, but his ‘words’ (his own words) are revealing of someone who may not understand how ‘healing’ works in ‘the Church’. Perhaps someday, when he is old and sick, a minister will visit with him and pray with him, and then, he will ‘see’ that to which he is now blinded.

Sounds like he needs prayer as much as the old and the sick that he has denied to visit and bring communion. Not too late to change for the better,
but so sad for all the ones he might have helped but for his present woundedness and inability to love.

Muslin, fka Dee Holmes: I live in a downmarket city as opposed to Scottsdale.

Pastors choose their markets, their base, all to pay their salary and fund a lifestyle. As Christiane notes, who gets communion and who is overlooked or ghosted.

This probably figures into Denhollander’s situation: hubby needs a paycheck and he’s a theobro in a field of career predators, same denom. that is being investigated now by DOJ and featured by the Houston Chronicle.

Notably, attorney Jeff Anderson does not represent RCC nor does he take $$$ from them, except via a lawsuit.

With regard to pastoring as a salaried position versus the gift of pastoring given FREE by the HS to the church … the salaried career pastor needs his paycheck and therefore enters into marketing, complicity, cullusion, and choosing constituents based on how he’ll get paid.

It’s either a goldmine for a pastor who comes up with a marketing formula (Olsteen), or a hand-to-mouth paycheck to paycheck burden (Olsteen’s dad? Francis Schaeffer according to his son Frank).

The salaried pastors don’t have a good track record of policing their preacher predator colleagues, misogynist theology and all that, holding up a poisoned system, the church as Hunting Ground and the spiritual Epstein Island.

These clergy predation cases hit the news and the Courts daily … youth pastor’s bodily fluids on the church youthroom couch, etc.

The clergy cohort is deafeningly silent.

Until this evil propagated by the pulpit is addressed by the pulpit, what’s the point of the pulpit? Nothing to listen to there. As minors are violated, dogma means nothing.

Where’s the PhD on keeping minors safe in churches? Is this too mundane for stately noble revered published conference-speaking media-savvy clergymen?

Mark Dever will not minister to members of his own church who are homebound or must live in assisted living facilities. Mark Dever will not baptize people who live with their parents regardless of their age, or the reasons.
…….people with physical or mental disabilities; military veterans with debilitating injuries; people who lose their independence due to injuries or illnesses; college students who still have to live with their parents…..
the list goes on.

Mark Dever’s “Jesus” condemns people with financial difficulties. Mark Dever’s “Jesus” condemns people with physical and/or mental disabilities. Mark Dever’s “Jesus” wants nothing to do with the “least of these”.

I think Mark Dever wants nothing to do with anyone who is not in a position to put some cash in the coffers.
Mark Dever came not to serve, but to be served.

Tom Parker: What is it that attracts people to these “ministers.” I just do not understand it.

Strange, isn’t it? I suppose some of it has to do with the NeoCal promotion of their message as the one true gospel … that they alone hold truth. After all, regular church is so dull. And then there is Driscoll’s macho-man image which attracts like-minded weirdos .. and Dever’s beat you up with the Bible appeals to a certain breed of churchgoers. But after a while, everyone who sits under this aberration of faith go stark raving mad, losing all their spiritual brain cells, if they are not fortunate enough to get excommunicated first.

The thing is, these preacher boys cannot bring Christ to the people anyway. Christ is already there with them. Once enough people really understand there is no “God store” to go get a dose of God, and no “God pharmacy” to dispense it to the shut ins, they will realize shut ins are being denied nothing of God. Of human contact and fellowship, yes, and that is very important also. But no one need go without contact with the Almighty no matter if they are shut in or sick and in the hospital.

Of course, those shut ins if unbelievers need evangelizing, and if believers are already “on assignment” where they are shut in. They do need their brothers and sisters in Christ, which needs no seminary degree or ordination.

So the theo dudes can be safely dispensed with themselves. No one is under their authority, and no one needs to care what they teach, pay their salaries, or give them money. Move on with Jesus and ignore their childish chatter.

Max: And then there is Driscoll’s macho-man image which attracts like-minded weirdos .. a

“JUST LIKE ANDREW TATE, EXCEPT CHRISTIAN(TM)!”

Old Timer: most people don’t hear preaching that encourages them to read and study the Bible itself, rather than relying on church entertainment each week

Yep, no doubt about it. The Great God Entertainment sits on the throne in much of the American church. Big screens, fog machines, and skinny jeans rule the roost. Folks fall for it because they don’t read and study the Bible themselves … relying only on the pulpit to do that for you is risky business these days.

Driscoll: “Married? Stop being cellmates and start being soulmates!”

Sorry, Driscoll. But Narcissists can’t be Soulmates. They can be soul suckers and soul destroyers. But they can’t be soulmates.

My ex talked about needing to find his ‘soulmate’ in the last years of our marriage. You see, he had already sucked me dry without giving anything in return. And once he had sucked my life and soul out of me, he needed a new source for his narcissistic supply. He needed a new soul-supply that he wrongly labeled “Soulmate”, cause he already used up his last soul-supply.

I’m just adding this to all the other reasons Driscoll has no business teaching anyone anything, especially about sex. Cause he’s a soul-sucker/destroyer who throws people under his bus when they are no longer of any use to him. He can’t help it. He’s a Narcissist. This is what they do.

Mara R: However they stopped him, he needed to be stopped.

These guys never really get “stopped” … they just get restored and resurface again to work their charms somewhere else. What else are they going to do for a living?

Tom Rubino,

“I’ve never noticed his constant eye blinking and weird facial expressions when he speaks. As a therapist, it’s a little unsettling to watch it.”
++++++++++++

i’m sure this is old news – per psychologytoday,

“Research also shows that when we are nervous or troubled our blink rate increases, a phenomenon often seen with liars but also frequently seen with people under stress.”

or maybe the skin on his face is too tight making it hard to close his eyes which then induces a sort of panic feeling and he ends up overcompensating with lots of blinks

Someone should rent billboards right next to Driscoll’s sex billboards and put up his most egregious quotes – like God blessing his church when they “run over” people with the Mars Hill bus, and how women are penis homes for men. Include a link to the Rise & Fall of Mars Hill podcast.

elastigirl: or maybe the skin on his face is too tight making it hard to close his eyes

One facelift too many, like Liberace?
(Though that might also be the reason for Kenneth Copeland dropping into the Uncanny Valley…)

Yes, yes, no, yes. I’m a Catholic, so I didn’t know that Protestant seminaries were teaching Mark Driscoll-ism.

We Catholics take Communion to the homebound. Most, if not all, parishes have commissioned lay ministers for this purpose. Some receive Communion at home every day.

Victorious: Thank you for the link with Kyle Howard! It was wonderful!

More people need to see this video and deal with the fact that Driscoll was grooming women to accept marital rape as ordained and ordered by God.

Whether he is doing this in Scottsdale, I don’t know. But I’m sure he hasn’t recognized his sin of taking the Lord’s name in vain to promote marital rape, let alone repent of it.

I don’t know how he plans to teach The Songs this time. It may be toned down from his cussing pastor days. But I have no reason to believe that it won’t be as rotten to the core as his Peasant Princess series or his William Wallace II rampage.

Tom Parker:
What is it that attracts people to these “ministers.”I just do not understand it.

Wild Honey:
Tom Parker,

They mistake confidence for character.

The Overconfidence Game. It’s a thing.

https://www.pushkin.fm/podcasts/against-the-rules/episode-6-the-overconfidence-game

Overconfidence, when there’s no there, there, is another snake oil marketed by pastors, as well as other riffraff (some politicians, some salespeople, all Ponzi schemers, Bernie Madoff, Inventing Anna, Elizabeth Holmes with Theranos, etc.).

You can fool some of the people sometimes, but you can’t fool all the people all the time. Madoff, Anna, and Thernos all eventually got caught with their pants down or skirts up.

Fake can’t do real. Jesus was/is real. The religious elite were/are fake. Nothing about Mary, Joseph, Nazareth, and the stable in Bethlehem cultivated overconfidence. Nothing about Jesus spoke plush, wealth or posh. Like Abraham said he’d accept no gifts from the neighboring kings so none of them would take credit for his success, Jesus took nothing from the offerings proposed in the Wilderness at the start of his ministry.

Unlike the beggaring grifting pastors, Jesus did not do pledge campaigns. Jesus builds relationships, not dynasties.

The topic of Mark Dever’s views on private communion were covered here in November 2022 and I gave my opinion that Mr Dever was wrong, adding for fairness the view of Heinrich Bullinger who agreed with him.
This time, in order to give a bit of historical context to Mr Dever’s view, I’ve collated some statements from some early Reformed Confessions, which show why he might think the way he does, as well as showing why he is still wrong, in my opinion. This is fairly lengthy and if it’s too large to be included in this discussion, that’s okay.

From the Commentary of Zachariah Ursinus’ on the Heidelberg Catechism

II. What is the design of the Lord’s Supper?
The Lord’s supper was instituted:
1. That it might be a confirmation of our faith, or a most sure proof of our union, and communion with Christ, who feeds us with his body and blood unto everlasting life, as truly as we receive these signs from the hands of the minister. This object is attained by all those who receive these signs in true faith: for we so receive these signs from the hands of the minister, as if the Lord himself gave them unto us with his own hand. It is in this way that Christ is said to have baptized more disciples than John, when he, nevertheless, did it through his disciples. (John 4:1.)
2. That we may by the observance of it make a public confession of our faith, acknowledge our gratitude, and bind ourselves to constant thankfulness, and to the celebration of this benefit. Hence it is said: “This do in remembrance of me.” “For as often as ye eat of this bread, and drink of this cup, ye do shew the Lord’s death till he come.” (Luke 22:19. 1 Cor. 11:26.) This remembrance, or commemoration of Christ precedes and is taken for faith in the heart; after which we make public confession, and acknowledgements of our thankfulness.
3. That it might be a public distinction, or badge, by which the true church may be known, and recognized from the world. The Lord has instituted this supper for none, but those who are his disciples.
4. That it might be a bond of love, declaring that all who partake of it aright, are made members of one body whose head is Christ. “For we being many are one bread, and one body; for we are all partakers of that one bread.” (1 Cor. 10:17.) Those now who are members of the same body have a mutual love one for another.
5. That the people of God who assemble in a public manner might be united together in the closest fellowship; for it was instituted to be observed in the congregation, whether there be many or few present. Hence Christ says, “Drink ye all of it,” and Paul says, “When ye come together to eat tarry one for another.” (Matt. 26:27. 1 Cor. 11:33.)
That the Lord’s supper ought not to be celebrated privately, by one person alone may be proven; 1. Because it is a communion, and is the sign of our communion with Christ: but a private supper is no communion. 2. Because it is a solemn thanksgiving; and we ought all to render thanks unto God. Hence he who regards himself as unworthy to communicate with others, declares that he is not fit to give thanks unto God. 3. Because Christ, with all his benefits, is not the property of one, but belongs to all in common. A private communion would, however, make a private good out of that which is common. 4. Because Christ admitted all his disciples, yea even Judas, from which it is easy to see that a private communion is contrary to the appointment of Christ. 5. That some neglect the communion or defer it even until death, arises no doubt from some wrong notion, or influence, either because they will not commune with others, or because they think that they are not worthy. But all who believe that they are delivered from eternal condemnation by the death of Christ, and desire to advance in holiness, are worthy. Briefly, when the Lord’s supper is observed by one person alone it is done contrary to the design, name, institution, and nature of the sacrament.

From The Hungarian Confession Catholica h1562)

“The meaning of the word ‘supper’, as the words koinonia, synaxis and agape show, teaches that we should come together to receive the Lord’s Supper, not privately. As the apostle says, the church is one bread, one mystical body; we all share in one bread. Although each receives his own part, nevertheless they ought to receive it in the congregation. We administer it to the sick by assembling two or three of their relations for a congregation in the house, if the sick person did not despise it in the time of health, if they are feeble, and if they do not receive it unworthily in the superstitious belief that receiving the signs will save them, as many papists unworthily imagine. However, if the sick are dissatisfied with eating in spiritual fashion, we distribute the Lord’s Supper to the others by dispelling the superstition (if in fact the sick are of a sound mind, believe and are not yet deprived of their senses). Thus the fathers teach.”

From the Documents of the Debrecen Synod (1567)

“But as concerns the sacred mystery and communal significance of the Lord’s Supper, it must be communally distributed and received in the congregation…..Therefore they act wickedly that administer it privately to one person, outside the public congregation, as do the Mass-manufacturers, donkeys, devil’s scum. We do not deny that it is permissible to distribute the Lord’s Supper in the homes of the sick outside the congregation, as the lamb too was eaten in private houses, and the apostles gathered in houses and so broke bread. Only let their be a congregation, regardless of number and size: where two or three are gathered in the name of Jesus, Christ is present among them.”

From the Synod of Piotrkow (1578)

“Should the Holy Supper be offered to the sick and to those about to die? The conclusion is as follows: All pastors ought to teach and accustom each of their listeners not to neglect going to the Lord’s Table as often as it is provided for all the believers in the public assembly……Nevertheless, even in this situation, so that we do not lord it over the consciences of men, the Supper is not to be denied to a sick man who requests it for valid reasons, and who is in full possession of his mental and rational faculties – provided that his conscience has been diligently examined and prudently instructed, and that, as far as possible with respect to circumstances of time and place, some of the believers are gathered together and participate along with him.”

From the Bremen Consensus (1595)

“On this topic we have furnished a specific and detailed treatise in which all and each remonstrance and further justifications for a private Supper are considered and with good grounds refuted….But though a separate Supper is not to be carried to the dying at home, nevertheless, either they or their friends should request the minister of the church to be ready to visit and so to instruct and comfort from God’s Word and to pray to God with them, which the sick should discern and hold to be no small service, but the gift of God…..The ministers of the church should diligently instruct the sick and bystanders that, in the event that one can no longer have the ordinance instituted by Christ, it is not the case that one cannot be saved without the sacrament.”

(All taken from James T Dennison’s Reformed Confessions of the 16th and 17th Centuries in English Translation)

Mara R: I called them Driscollites.

Yep, they are definitely a tribe of their own. Unfortunately, Driscollites, Mohlerites, and Piperites have darn near taken over the SBC – changing the message and mission of the denomination I spent 70+ years in (I’m in the “Done” ranks now). While there is a lot which ails the SBC these days, it’s been sad to see it fall into the NeoCal hole.

Mara R: Those were hard times, watching Driscoll being heralded as a great leader and teacher in Christianity. It’s still hard that he won’t shut up, go away, and quit troubling the Body of Christ with his Narcissism. But it’s better then back in 2012.

Agreed. His influence on the American church and young believers has greatly diminished. Folks don’t take him as seriously as they did in his glory days. This must be extremely frustrating for him.

Max: olks don’t take him as seriously as they did in his glory days. This must be extremely frustrating for him.

The worst thing you can do to a Egomaniac is make him a running bad joke.

Andy:
Someone should rent billboards right next to Driscoll’s sex billboards and put up his most egregious quotes – like God blessing his church when they “run over” people with the Mars Hill bus, and how women are penis homes for men.

Don’t forget the Godly BJs in Song of Solomon.
Or the one about her duty to offer the other end of her alimentary canal. On demand.
“Just like Andrew Tate, Except CHRISTIAN(TM)!”

Muff Potter,

They have no desire to think for themselves.
Nor will they dare and question what their shaman tells them.

Headless Unicorn Guy: The worst thing you can do to a Egomaniac is make him a running bad joke.

Ignoring and rejecting narcissists like Driscoll drive them insane.

Headless Unicorn Guy: Even when he sics them on Heretics, Apostates, and Traitors.

The Lord is my pitbull
I shall not be kind

Muff Potter,

I wish that was NOT so funny…..

So obviously EVERYONE in the local church must be present for Communion to take place.
There, that should stop people just doing it when they feel like it. Or ever, in fact.

Erp: I suspect one should look to how ministers treat those who have less power than them. Dever would probably show up pretty quickly if a sick but very rich person was asking for him.

This. And it isn’t only in certain Reformed or non-denominational/mega churches. I was a member of a country club-like church for a while. Anyway, my late mother was in a hospital and we thought she might be dying, and she wanted a pastor to pray with her. I called my church. They put me through an interrogation. “Is she a member?” “No.” “Are you sure she is dying today?” “I don’t know but she is in bad health and asked for a pastor to pray with her.” And so on. I called twice and got a run-around. I asked for someone to call me back and no one did. But my mom had family to pray for her. Also, my sister had a friend who drove 40 miles to visit my mom throughout her illness and pray with her. Oh, my sister’s friend walked painfully with a cane but could drive all those miles and do all that walking in a hospital. I guess this was something beyond the ability of the mostly healthy young men who were pastors.

For me, it was like a light switch went off – I knew I didn’t belong at that church. I wasn’t a big enough donor. I stopped going there and tried to put it out of my mind. Oh, a few months after I quit there, there was a church scandal in the news – the details aren’t relevant. I felt relieved that I was no longer going to the church that was going through a stressful time – I felt sorry for the good people who were there. I can understand how some people feel they are “Done” with church but I try to keep an open mind while being cautious.

Dever seems to embody the memorial view of the Lord’s Supper. If he had any inclination towards “real presence” (which does not require a belief in transubstantiation), he wouldn’t be so quick to restrict the distribution of the elements.

Ironically, for a purported biblicist, his view on baptism cannot be justified in Scripture.

On Driscoll’s popularity:
When I was in seminary, one of my professors assigned one of Driscoll’s books, and we were to write a reaction paper to it. I read it and noted the seeming “anger issues” that Driscoll had. This was pre-meltdown when he was the darling of the yrr folks.

My reaction paper reflected my concerns about his anger and concerns that he wasn’t modeling Christ-like leadership. My professor said that I should take the good parts and ignore the rest. I thought that he was heading for a major PR crash and didn’t think the book contributed anything positive to our experience at the time. Now, I think the book might be useful as an example of abusive church leaders.

It wasn’t at all surprising when his abuse came to light a few years later.

Burwell Stark: You can only “eat the meat and spit out the bones” so long before you begin to choke.

Exactly. I didn’t find any meat in the book at the time. I have no idea what the professor’s reaction was when it came to light or even now.

Has anyone been following Driscoll’s fake romance, real p@rn sermon series?
Anything to report or have you heard any reports anywhere concerning it?

Mara R: Has anyone been following Driscoll’s fake romance, real p@rn sermon series?

You mean the latest unwanted peek into the ManaGAWD’s Appetites?
(Guy must be an Exhibitionist, too, he shouts it all from the rooftops…)