Larry Tomczak Goes on Record – Mike Bickle is One of His Heroes!

Posted on by May 15, 2024avatar

“If you can tell me who your heroes are, I can tell you how you’re going to turn out in life.” -Warren Buffett

According to Wikipedia, the church denomination we now know as Sovereign Grace Churches “grew out of the charismatic renewal of the 1970s under the leadership of Larry Tomczak. It has its roots in a charismatic prayer meeting in Silver Spring, Maryland, then Washington, DC, called Take and Give (TAG), which grew into Covenant Life Church, the former flagship of Sovereign Grace. Tomczak co-founded the church with C. J. Mahaney. Mahaney describes himself as a “former “pothead.”  Larry Tomczak withdrew from the Charismatic Catholic scene shortly before the creation of Covenant Life Church.

In 1981, Brent Detweiler, pastor of Indiana Christian Fellowship in Indiana, Pennsylvania, asked Mahaney and Tomczak to provide oversight and accountability for his church. The two churches formed an informal church-planting partnership. In 1982, shortly after planting a church in Cleveland, Mahaney, Tomczak, and Detweiler formed People of Destiny International as an umbrella organization for their various ministries. The original apostolic team comprised Mahaney, Tomczak, Detweiler, and Bill Galbraith.”

Hindsight being 20/20 I believe it’s evident that a “pothead” with a high school diploma and a guy with a degree from Cleveland State University, neither of whom had any formal theological training, were not the wisest choice to start a church, much less a Christian denomination. This is not to say that God did not use these two men to advance His kingdom in this world, I believe He did, but in the long run, it is my opinion that neither man should be in the ministry today.

Larry Tomczak and C.J. Mahaney

It is not my intention to cover C.J. Mahaney in this article. I believe I have given him enough ink. Today I wish to expose the hypocrisy of Larry Tomczak as he foolishly rushed to the defense of his long-time buddy, Mike Bickle. Tomczak could not be bothered to take the time to attempt to ascertain the facts of the charges of sexual abuse by several women before trashing those who were speaking out in support of the victims.

Here is a comment Brent Detwiler made about Larry Tomczak a few months ago on Facebook. He has permitted me to publish it.

Despite Tomczak using “harsh and extreme discipline” nor having any formal training in child development, he didn’t let that get in his way of authoring the book, pictured below. Fortunately, the book had a short shelf life!

In the video below Larry Tomczak tells us he has known Mike Bickle for nearly 50 years. He tells us Bickle is a man of character, courage, and conviction. To make such a statement shows Tomczak to be an extremely poor judge of character and/or a guy who has his buddy’s back, truth be damned!  Either way, Tomczak has, in my opinion, shown himself to be unfit to be in Christian ministry.

Below is an excellent response to Tomczak and his ilk from a Canadian pastor.

As the heat on Mike Bickle intensified, Tomczak doubled down in defense of his buddy. He said Bickle is a man of God and one of his heroes. Further, he stated that he believes in Mike and loves Mike. Of note, he said nothing about the women Bickle has abused!

This last video of Tomczak was published towards the end of April. The evidence against Mike Bickle was now overwhelming. Do you think Tomczak would admit he was wrong and apologize? Never. He mentions the upheaval in the church, and some of the “recent happenings with Bickle, T.D. Jakes and Mark Driscoll.”  It’s a lame attempt to obfuscate his defense of Bickle and his horrendous sexual abuse crimes/sins by pulling a few other “pastors” into the mix. In speaking of Driscoll it is obvious Tomczak did not know what took place at the conference nor anything about Driscoll’s church. He said the men’s conference Driscoll had a dragshow – wrong! He said Driscoll was starting up a church out there in Arizona – do you mean the church Driscoll started in February 2016? That was over 8 years ago Larry!  You accuse bloggers of slander and gossip when we write about things we have researched and drawn intelligent conclusions from, and then you demonstrate actual slander and gossip by talking about things you have zero knowledge about.

Larry Tomczak, you are old, ill-informed and unfit to be in Christian ministry. I suggest you retire and spare yourself any further embarrassment.

Comments

Larry Tomczak Goes on Record – Mike Bickle is One of His Heroes! — 91 Comments


  1. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    Let’s face it Todd…. Larry will never be embarrassed he is clueless.


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    There is a lot of lamenting insufficient education by those around the world, even noted in the opening comments of this article. I don’t decry education, it’s important, helpful and often key to a successful endeavor. However, continually referring to education as if people, e.g. abusers, would have not abused, or would have been better stewards of their ministry, had they had more of a certain type of schooling falls short of the truth. Schooling does little if anything to improve the sinful heart, or displace or prevent sinful practices. The litany of crimes committed by people has no educational boundary. Skid row, LA, is filled with people who have higher degrees. The teaching profession has countless cases of child abuse from teachers with bachelors and masters degrees, and doctorates. The historical denominations are writ with clergy and staff with higher level theological degrees who have abused doctrine, people, and kids through the globe. We miss the mark to think education will fix sin, or that these abuses come mostly from the uneducated. We know from scripture, the heart is desperately wicked and full of all evil, and is not swayed by a degree, or tempered by theological training.
    To that end, I’m grateful my surgeons had higher level degrees, and specialties. I’m thankful that my mechanic is ASE certified. I’m glad for education as it can improve society and provides tools to engage in opportunities that may have been missed. But education is not a god to be worshipped, nor a tower to get closer to God. We need to stop perpetuating the concept that if certain pastors or ministers had certain credentials they’d not sinned against the body of Christ.


  3. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    Jes: There is a lot of lamenting insufficient education by those around the world, even noted in the opening comments of this article

    I understand my comments are a bit ‘off topic’ and not intended to challenge the primary context of the post.


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    Imagine what would’ve happened if the Charismatic movement exhibited the Fruit of the Spirit, rather than the Gifts of the Spirit?


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    Are you certain that such reliance on Brent Detwiler is wise? I applaud him for leaving SGM and exposing it, but it frankly appears now to have risen to the level of obsession including possibly abandoning of family and productive employment. And my impression is that his work smacks of so much self-congratulation that it smells kind of like narcissism. Maybe I’m wrong; I’m only watching from a distance.


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    Neil Cameron: Imagine what would’ve happened if the Charismatic movement exhibited the Fruit of the Spirit, rather than the Gifts of the Spirit?

    It’s easier to fake a gift than a fruit.


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    R: Are you certain that such reliance on Brent Detwiler is wise?

    I know Brent very well. His knowledge of all things related to Sovereign Grace is second to none. He is a meticulous note keeper and an honest man. As for being obsessed,I don’t look at that word as a pejorative, rather, I think anyone who fights for justice for survivors must be obsessed. I am obsessed. I spend many hours researching predators. I won’t speak for others, but let me just say that everyone I know that is engaged in speaking up for survivors, and seeking justice for survivors invests countless hours in their calling, and very few receive any remuneration for their work.


  8. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    The name “People of Destiny” has always reminded me of Bill Bright — a phrase he used in motivational speaking to groups of believers to exert themselves (I heard him speak at CCC training for new staff inductees in Summer 1984; I dropped out later that year) for the Gospel was “we are people of destiny.” Involving lightly-trained laity in ministry was kind of CCC’s style, too, though I’m sure it was not unique to them.

    I have the impression that there was a lot of “DIY church planting” in those days; I’m curious how much is known about what the influences were on LT and CJM. Did they get their ideas from somewhere or did they cook them up themselves?


  9. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    “This is not to say that God did not use these two men to advance His kingdom in this world, I believe He did,”

    I find this statement odd in the context of the article. Considering the outcome, along with the pain and suffering, I don’t see how the kingdom was “advanced”.

    Christianity is in decline. Clowns like this are part of the reason.


  10. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    Oh dear God! I’ve had a traumatic couple of weeks and this morning I decided to check The Wartburg Watch and I see Larry’s mug. AAAAH!

    I remember being a high schooler at the bus stop, when my friend gave me Larry’s book Clap Your Hands, hoping I’d be open to it because he grew up Catholic. I did end up becoming involved in the Catholic charismatic movement, and in my senior year of college at Catholic University in DC, I attended both TAG and also the young church, which FYI was called the Gathering of Believers. I was baptized in Che Ahn’s bathtub, which is now a very dubious legacy.

    Even in college, and when I moved back to Maryland two years later to attend whatever it was called back then, I never got anything out of Larry’s sermons. He was all cheerleading and sermons with alliteration. CJ at the time actually gave some decent sermons, including one about the name it and claim it movement and the fatherhood of God – both of which I remember to this day.

    Anyway, I never had any trust in Larry and consider him a man of little substance. So crazy that the first response of men like him is to defend his friend. If I found out something like that about a friend, I would certainly do some investigation and then respond accordingly. I wasted 16 years with CLC , but as my current pastor says, it’ll always be part of my story and hopefully God is redeeming it.

    Pray for me, as I continue to this day to have triggers and work through this stuff. It speaks to the grace of God that I’m still standing.


  11. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    It’s truly amazing how many characters are in “ministry” in America … Tomczak and Mahaney should have never happened … but what is more than amazing is that they have followers!! Bad actors would have no stage if it weren’t for a gullible audience willing to buy tickets to their show.


  12. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    R: risen to the level of obsession

    Those who fight for right usually are … those who are compelled to rescue folks from the same valley they were in are driven by passion and compulsion to inform and warn. I’m obsessed enough to speak against abuse, aberrant theology, and ministry charlatans that I show up daily at TWW to comment. The American church is such a mess that it will be turned only by those obsessed enough to swim against the current.


  13. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    Former CLC’er: Pray for me, as I continue to this day to have triggers and work through this stuff. It speaks to the grace of God that I’m still standing.

    PTCD (Post Traumatic Church Disorder) can indeed be cured by the grace of God! Ministries and ministers that inflicted this on the Body of Christ will someday pay a big price for their transgression.


  14. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    Max: Those who fight for right usually are … those who are compelled to rescue folks from the same valley they were in are driven by passion and compulsion to inform and warn.

    And for consideration for the group, there were more than CJ and LT as a part of this early organization, others who perpetuated their plans and cover over the years. Let’s not forget and wash those names under the rug. Truth is truth. I’m grateful for those leaders who’ve repented with some actively engaged with change.


  15. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    “This is not to say that God did not use these two men to advance His kingdom in this world …”

    Nah, they advanced their own kingdoms. The Kingdom of God is not built on arrogance and aberration. God does not use counterfeit to produce genuine. The Kingdom of Heaven in the here and now is being advanced by a totally different cast of characters … names you will never see in the blogosphere.


  16. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    Jes: I’m grateful for those leaders who’ve repented with some actively engaged with change.

    Yes, in any off-the-wall ministry, there are those who see the light and “Come out from among them, be not partakers of their sin.”


  17. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    Wow! Tomczak thinks it’s a great idea to draw a line connecting Driscoll and Bickle as a way to defend Bickle?!?

    Huge fail / argument lost.

    Also, Tomszak is believing God for a good outcome in all this. Logical conclusion: if Bickle goes down, then it must be the will of God.


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    Benny S: Also, Tomszak is believing God for a good outcome in all this. Logical conclusion: if Bickle goes down, then it must be the will of God.

    Benny S:
    Wow! Tomczak thinks it’s a great idea to draw a line connecting Driscoll and Bickle as a way to defend Bickle?!?

    Huge fail / argument lost.

    Also, Tomszak is believing God for a good outcome in all this. Logical conclusion: if Bickle goes down, then it must be the will of God.

    All is as Allah wills it.


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    Max,

    And we are grateful for that


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    Jes,

    You Jes, are 100% correct. When we all stand before God in judgment, one’s academic accomplishments will NOT play a part. So you earned a Ph.D.? “Big Whoop.” The issue will be your sins and that will not be aleviated by one’s academic accomplishments.


  21. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    Larry Tomczak is a resident spokesman at the demon obsessed, cartoon-Christian Charisma News.

    Coincidence?


  22. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    Sandy:
    Larry Tomczak is a resident spokesman at the demon obsessed, cartoon-Christian Charisma News.

    As is Charisma contributor Michael Brown, who, (to his credit) stands on the opposite side of the issue from Tomczak, according to The Roys Report: Charismatic Christian Leaders Declare Mike Bickle ‘Unfit’ and ‘Disqualified’ from Ministry (see link) https://julieroys.com/charismatic-christian-leaders-declare-mike-bickle-unfit-disqualified-from-ministry/

    I’m guessing there is more-than-a-little tension going on these days for those directly associated with Charisma News, especially for Charisma CEO Steve Strang.


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    Jes,

    Amen!!!


  24. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    God uses ONLY sinners to advance His Kingdom. A humbling thought actually.


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    I’ve not yet finished reading the comments…. 🙂

    Todd Wilhelm: I know Brent very well. His knowledge of all things related to Sovereign Grace is second to none. He is a meticulous note keeper and an honest man. As for being obsessed, I don’t look at that word as a pejorative, rather, I think anyone who fights for justice for survivors must be obsessed. I am obsessed. I spend many hours researching predators. I won’t speak for others, but let me just say that everyone I know that is engaged in speaking up for survivors, and seeking justice for survivors invests countless hours in their calling, and very few receive any remuneration for their work.

    Thank you for your comment, Todd Wilhelm….to continue the train of thought….(sarcasm on) I suppose Dee’s obsessed….as is every other watchblog (/sarc off).

    And not all watchblogs are church-related.

    Yes, there are “watchblogs” whose writer(s) are obsessed, and many of these “watchblogs” are dangerous. They spew out lies, etc., and incite people to violence, etc.

    There’s a BIG difference between a watchblog and a “watchblog”.

    (Now back to reading the comments…. 🙂


  26. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    Former CLC’er: Pray for me, as I continue to this day to have triggers and work through this stuff.

    Praying….


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    Max: Those who fight for right usually are … those who are compelled to rescue folks from the same valley they were in are driven by passion and compulsion to inform and warn. I’m obsessed enough to speak against abuse, aberrant theology, and ministry charlatans that I show up daily at TWW to comment. The American church is such a mess that it will be turned only by those obsessed enough to swim against the current.

    And I’m glad you’re here, Max…. 🙂 and grateful for all your comments. 🙂


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    Jack: I find this statement odd in the context of the article. Considering the outcome, along with the pain and suffering, I don’t see how the kingdom was “advanced”.

    Jack, the comment just below yours from “Former CLC’er” illustrates my thoughts on the kingdom being advanced through pastors like Mahaney and Tomczak.
    “Former CLC’er” said:
    ” I wasted 16 years with CLC , but as my current pastor says, it’ll always be part of my story and hopefully God is redeeming it.
    Pray for me, as I continue to this day to have triggers and work through this stuff. It speaks to the grace of God that I’m still standing.”

    I am embarrassed to say that I had 5 years in a Sovereign Grace church. Looking back I can see how God did redeem it for good in my life. I learned and matured through my time spent in what I would now consider to be a borderline cult. Like “Former CLC’er” I also credit the grace of God for the fact that I’m still standing.

    “Some indeed preach Christ from envy and rivalry, but others from good will.
    The latter do it out of love, knowing that I am put here for the defense of the gospel;
    the former proclaim Christ out of partisanship, not sincerely but thinking to afflict me in my imprisonment.
    What then? Only that in every way, whether in pretense or in truth, Christ is proclaimed; and in that I rejoice.”
    -Phillipians 1:15-18 RSV


  29. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    Max: God is not built on arrogance and aberration. God does not use counterfeit to produce genuine.

    Yet, God made Saul prophecy.


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    Max: off-the-wall ministry

    Seems most ministries at their core were “off the wall”. And, success wasn’t measured by popularity or longevity.


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    Jes: God made Saul prophecy

    True. I doubt that he used Tomczak and Mahaney in that way, though.


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    Todd Wilhelm: whether in pretense or in truth, Christ is proclaimed

    Was Christ proclaimed at SGM? Or was the spotlight on Tomczak and Mahaney?


  33. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    senecagriggs: God uses ONLY sinners to advance His Kingdom.

    God uses only redeemed sinners washed in the blood of Christ.


  34. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    Former CLC’er: Pray for me, as I continue to this day to have triggers and work through this stuff. It speaks to the grace of God that I’m still standing.

    Praying…


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    senecagriggs:
    God uses ONLY sinners to advance His Kingdom.A humbling thought actually.

    Help me out, here. You think there are humans living, walking, functioning among us who have never sinned?
    And, you think God chose use us sinners over them?


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    Benny S: Charisma CEO Steve Strang.

    Strang is featured in “The Kingdom, the Power, and the Glory: American Evangelicals in an Age of Extremism” by Tim Alberta.


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    Former CLC’er: I never got anything out of [imsert pastor name]’s sermons

    Weekly experience in churchdom. Common. Unfortunately.


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    Maybe it’s just Todd’s selection of screenshots, but Tomczak’s facial expressions give off a very strong Ken Copeland vibe.

    Now there’s a world class scam artist – almost in a league of his own.


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    Hindsight being 20/20 I believe it’s evident that a “pothead” with a high school diploma and a guy with a degree from Cleveland State University, neither of whom had any formal theological training, were not the wisest choice to start a church, much less a Christian denomination.

    You know the drill, Dee:

    That disqualifies them in The FLESH(TM), but they were In The SPIRIT(TM).

    Same justification as a phenomenon observed by Christian Monist: Churches who ALWAYS pick the LEAST qualified, LEAST competent man for the job. Any job. Something about how God will be Glorified when the guy is obviously incompetent but succeeds because GOD is Obviously Working Through Him. (This does not end well.)


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    Gus:
    Maybe it’s just Todd’s selection of screenshots, but Tomczak’s facial expressions give off a very strong Ken Copeland vibe.

    Now there’s a world class scam artist – almost in a league of his own.

    Worlds RICHEST Televangelist.
    (THREE private jets! Even Creflo Dollar only has TWO!)
    Whose facial expression even the atheist channels describe as “Demonic”.


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    Max: It’s easier to fake a gift than a fruit.

    And according to my writing partner (the burned-out country preacher), Tongues are the easiest gift to fake.


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    Isn’t Bickle the guy behind (the other) IHOP?


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    Gus: Maybe it’s just Todd’s selection of screenshots, but Tomczak’s facial expressions give off a very strong Ken Copeland vibe.

    He sure didn’t photograph well in the thumbnail for this posting.


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    Headless Unicorn Guy: Churches who ALWAYS pick the LEAST qualified, LEAST competent man for the job. Any job. Something about how God will be Glorified when the guy is obviously incompetent but succeeds because GOD is Obviously Working Through Him. (This does not end well.)

    Been there. Seen this.


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    Headless Unicorn Guy: Whose facial expression even the atheist channels describe as “Demonic”.

    As recorded by journos (YouTube has the vids).


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    Gus: Maybe it’s just Todd’s selection of screenshots, but Tomczak’s facial expressions give off a very strong Ken Copeland vibe.

    same spirit


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    Nancy2(aka Kevlar),

    No, there are ONLY sinners; [ “none righteous, no not one” ]. So all things done for the kingdom are done by sinners.


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    Max,

    Sinners never the less Max.


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    Off Topic…. 🙂

    I just finished reading a Religion News article by Bob Smietana, from April 19, 2024, titled Near Chicago, a Lutheran church finds new life at the YMCA. I thought the whole article was so neat, I wanted to share it with TWW readers. 🙂

    An Internet Archive link to the article is below:

    https://web.archive.org/web/20240512182552/https://religionnews.com/2024/04/19/near-chicago-a-lutheran-church-finds-new-life-at-the-ymca/

    And thank you, Dee — I’m guessing I picked the article off your Twitter. 🙂


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    ION: Cricket

    With the County Championship in full swing down in England, Nottinghamshire captain and opening batter Haseeb Hameed turned in a magnificent performance yesterday, carrying his bat for 247 as Notts were finally dismissed for 503. As at stumps yesterday, opponents Lancashire still need 72 runs to make the hosts bat again, with only 4 second-innings wickets remaining.

    The Notts tail certainly wagged, too, their score being significantly bolstered by a remarkable 8th-wicket partnerhip of 163 between Hameed and Olly Stone.

    Best regards,

    God


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    “Mike Bickle is One of His Heroes!”

    TWW reports frequently on “heroes” who turned out to be villains.


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    Jes,

    Jes–totally agree. Education can be a very good thing but no amount of education can prevent a sinner from sinning.


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    senecagriggs:
    Max,

    Sinners never the less Max.

    And you can now polish your “More Sinful Sinner Than Thou” halo.


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    senecagriggs: No, there are ONLY sinners; [ “none righteous, no not one” ].

    It depends on how you (generic you) look at the verse. The Bible also says that Joseph the husband of Mary was a righteous man, which is why I view the ‘no not one’ verse as hyperbole and not literal exact truth.


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    Muff Potter: senecagriggs: No, there are ONLY sinners; [ “none righteous, no not one” ].
    It depends on how you (generic you) look at the verse. The Bible also says that Joseph the husband of Mary was a righteous man, which is why I view the ‘no not one’ verse as hyperbole and not literal exact truth

    This seems a difficult equation. With this math applied to other scriptures, what else might be considered hyperbole? Maybe Jesus dying for our sins? God sending his Son? Does ‘righteous man’ mean, without sin?


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    Max: Jes: God made Saul prophecy
    True. I doubt that he used Tomczak and Mahaney in that way, though

    we don’t, and won’t know. I’m uncertain King Saul prophesying was a positive thing.


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    Jes: we don’t, and won’t know

    You will know them by their fruit.


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    linda: Education can be a very good thing but no amount of education can prevent a sinner from sinning.

    Good Lord! Some of the most sinful of sinners I have known in my long life have been educated sinners!


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    senecagriggs: No, there are ONLY sinners; [ “none righteous, no not one” ]. So all things done for the kingdom are done by sinners

    I repent! I am unworthy! I took 11 items into the 10 item or less checkout isle, I did a U-turn when the sign stated no U-turn, I didn’t seperate my recycling….oh god… I…did…not… drive…55…may Sammy Hagar, I mean Jesus have mercy on me…


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    Jack: checkout isle, I did

    “Isle” should be “aisle”…even my spelling is full of unrighteousness, may the Lord smite me with a thesaurus….


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    Jes,

    I hold to the tenets of The Apostle’s Creed, anything beyond that, I keep my own counsel.
    I stand on my statement that the husband of Mary was a righteous man.


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    Muff Potter: I stand on my statement that the husband of Mary was a righteous man.

    “Joseph, her husband to be, was a righteous man” (Matthew 1:19)


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    Muff Potter,

    Perhaps Jes & Seneca are trying to make a sin-leveling case that Messrs. Mahaney & Tomczak are no more sinful than you and me? … that we are all sinners … that their known sins or alleged transgressions would not disqualify them from ministry since none are righteous, no not one, and other misinterpreted Scriptures when it comes to defending bad-boy pastors?


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    Todd Wilhelm: I am embarrassed to say that I had 5 years in a Sovereign Grace church. Looking back I can see how God did redeem it for good in my life. I learned and matured through my time spent in what I would now consider to be a borderline cult. Like “Former CLC’er” I also credit the grace of God for the fact that I’m still standing.

    There’s no reason to be embarrassed. And I don’t think god led you there, your discernment and general goodness and niceness led you out.

    I still don’t think these men advanced the kingdom of God.

    And for others who have made their way out, I don’t think PTSD is from god either.

    These men ran a racket, they may have believed in their own manifest destiny but it was a racket none the less.

    God becomes a force multiplier when the racketeer plies the Jesus trade.

    No one should beat themselves up for getting sucked in.


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    Max: Perhaps Jes & Seneca are trying to make a sin-leveling case that Messrs. Mahaney & Tomczak are no more sinful than you and me? … that we are all sinners

    I am pure unadulterated evil … And I have the groceries to prove it. But it’s sooo deliciously gratifying to hear the 11th item beep….to see the cashier’s sneer…to hear the sigh of frustration from the shoppers behind me…. I need Jesus.


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    Jack: I need Jesus

    We all do, Jack


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    Jack: No one should beat themselves up for getting sucked in.

    Thanks, Jack.


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    Jack: I repent! I am unworthy! I took 11 items into the 10 item or less checkout isle, I did a U-turn when the sign stated no U-turn, I didn’t seperate my recycling….oh god… I…did…not… drive…55…may Sammy Hagar, I mean Jesus have mercy on me…

    I could have used a few of these in my Sovereign Grace care group/confessional!


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    Jack: These men ran a racket, they may have believed in their own manifest destiny but it was a racket none the less … No one should beat themselves up for getting sucked in.

    There are so many Jesus rackets and racketeers out there, that I dare say everyone tuning into TWW has been sucked in to one or more during their journey through the American church. Praise God for delivering us out of the fowler’s snare. Those who are out can help those who are still in; that’s why we inform and warn.


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    Here is one article on Tomczak:

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2013/01/15/lawsuit-accuses-pastor-of-abuse/1566390/

    These are the allegations against Tomczak by Carla Coe:

    FACTS REGARDING CARLA COE

    43. Carla Coe was repeatedly assaulted by Defendant Tomczak and his co-conspirators during a 25-year period spaning her childhood and young adulthood. Defendant Tomczak assaulted Carla Coe with his hands, as well as with various instruments, including but not limited to, plastic and wooden sticks.

    44. On multiple occasions, including occasions after Carla Coe reached the age of majority, Defendant Tomczak forced Carla Doe to strip out of her clothing against her will, and be beaten on her bare buttocks. Defendant Tomczak continued to engage in this forced undressing and beating of Carla Coe until she fled and escaped from the abuse.

    45. On several occasions, Defendant Tomczak imprisoned Carla Coe and denied her food for extended periods of time.

    46. Defendant Tomczak verbally admitted on one or more occasions to the individual Defendants and to the Church that he abused Carla Coe. No one reported the beatings to the secular authority.

    47. The assaults by Defendant Tomczak and his co-conspirator’s assault primarily occurred in Maryland and Virginia.

    http://www.brentdetwiler.com/brentdetwilercom/class-action-lawsuit-naming-sovereign-grace-ministries-is-ex.html

    Shocking for someone like Tomczak to think it is within his right to corporally punish a girl even after she becomes an adult (says up to age 25).


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    Steve240: Shocking for someone like Tomczak to think it is within his right to corporally punish a girl even after she becomes an adult (says up to age 25).

    When the god (small ‘g’ intentional) they’ve manufactured is a monster, is it any wonder that the men who worship this ‘god’ are monsters too?


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    Muff Potter,

    And I’m glad sovereign-grace-ministries are getting their a$$es sued off.


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    Anyone who still considers Mike Bickle a “hero” has had their spiritual brains scrambled.


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    Muff Potter: When the god (small ‘g’ intentional) they’ve manufactured is a monster, is it any wonder that the men who worship this ‘god’ are monsters too?

    Conformed into the Image of their God.
    Gives a whole new meaning to the Rabbi from Tarsus’ phrase “He must increase and I must decrease.”


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    Max:
    Anyone who still considers Mike Bickle a “hero” has had their spiritual brains scrambled.

    Again, isn’t this “Bickle” character the guy behind the Other IHOP?


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    Steve240: Shocking for someone like Tomczak to think it is within his right to corporally punish a girl even after she becomes an adult (says up to age 25).

    Just a variant of Christian Domestic DISCIPLINE(TM).
    “PAPA SPANK! SPANK! SPANK!”

    “Now that’s a guy who’s into S&M but won’t admit to it.”
    — reaction when I described CDD to an outsider


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    Max:
    “Mike Bickle is One of His Heroes!”

    TWW reports frequently on “heroes” who turned out to be villains.

    “For Satan himself can transform himself to appear as an Angel of Light.”
    — some Rabbi from Tarsus


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    Headless Unicorn Guy: isn’t this “Bickle” character the guy behind the Other IHOP?

    Yes, but he wasn’t flippin’ pancakes!


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    Muff Potter: I’m glad sovereign-grace-ministries are getting their a$$es sued off

    “There must be no sexual sin among you, or any kind of evil or greed. Those things are not right for God’s holy people … So have nothing to do with them” (Ephesians 5)


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    Jack: I repent! I am unworthy! I took 11 items into the 10 item or less checkout isle, I did a U-turn when the sign stated no U-turn, I didn’t seperate my recycling….oh god… I…did…not… drive…55…may Sammy Hagar, I mean Jesus have mercy on me…

    “I AM A COW-HEADED MONSTER!
    I HAVE SINNED! I HAVE SINNED!
    I HAVE SUCCUMBED TO COUNTER-REVOLUTIONARY THOUGHT!
    I HAVE SINNED! I HAVE SINNED!
    I CERTAINLY HOPE THAT I’M FRANK ABOUT IT!
    IF NOW YOU CAN SHRED ME TO BITS!”
    — Great Proletarian Culture Revolution Anthem the Chairman Mao’s Red Guard forced dissidents to sing


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    “Despite Tomczak using “harsh and extreme discipline” nor having any formal training in child development, he didn’t let that get in his way of authoring the book (“God, The Rod, and Your Child’s Bod”). Fortunately, the book had a short shelf life!”

    Yeah, and his bud Mahaney wrote a book on humility … give me a break!

    Some ministers and ministries need desperately to have a short shelf life!


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    Max: Yeah, and his bud Mahaney wrote a book on humility … give me a break!

    Which is why to me, Chuckles Mahaney will always be “The HUMBLE One”.
    With liveried flunkies blowing long trumpets before him and strewing his path with rose petals to announce how HUMBLE he is.


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    Max: “There must be no sexual sin among you, or any kind of evil or greed. Those things are not right for God’s holy people … So have nothing to do with them” (Ephesians 5)

    AKA “Don’t make a Shanda fur die Goyim.”


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    senecagriggs: The issue will be your sins and that will not be aleviated by one’s academic accomplishments.

    Fair question:
    What sins are we talking about, j-walking or capital murder?
    Why is evangelicalism so obsessed with ‘sins’?


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    One sad point is that Larry Tomczak wrote his book on raising children when his youngest child was like 4 years old. Not much experience with raising children but that didn’t stop him from writing a book. That reminds me of Josh Harris writing a book on dating when he was a teenager with little experience.

    I do wonder if Tomczak contacted Mike Bickle right when the allegations (about Bickle) came out and asked Bickle if what was being said was true rather than being so quick to defend Bickle. I imagine Larry didn’t and just assumed there was no truth to the Bickle allegations. Even when Bickle gave what many see as a partial confession Larry still tried to minimize and excuse what Bickle did admit.

    On another note, you don’t see Larry’s adopted Korean daughter in any of the family pictures Larry posts. This is apparently due to Larry’s daughter being estranged.


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    Jack,

    Your theology in this is sound. By thieving the bread of life from childrens’ lips CLC et al have caused the eclipsing of any understanding of what “kingdom of God” is.

    Tomczak should not be writing about any child’s bod.


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    senecagriggs,

    That’s because there is no Spirit, only works of the flesh. Thank you for bring “the” gospel to the world.


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    Michael in UK:
    Headless Unicorn Guy,

    Hullabaloo yabadabadoo!

    There actually was one Celebrity Preacher-man (don’t remember who) who when he went Charismatic/Pentecostal “tongued” by repeating “POOKIE-POO POOKIE-POO POOKIE-POO” really fast.


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    Headless Unicorn Guy,

    Tomczak is just a strange person, with strange features that show his mentally twisted state- that’s where those facial expressions come in. For anyone who has been traumatized by him directly, it must be hard to look at photos of him. That said, it’s long overdue for church members and leaders to take the side of survivors, rather than abusers and oppressors. I’ll never be able to wrap my head around it, all this abuse of children and babies !! It makes Jesus look heartless and lame, to say the least. Plus, Jesus NEVER said to treat them this way ! This kind of behavior is a European thing, not a Jesus trait.


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    Just came across this article after reading “God, the Rod, and Your Child’s Bod” for research and am now trying to learn more about Tomczak. The book didn’t disappear, unfortunately, it was simply rebranded as “The Little Handbook On Loving Correction: How To Raise Happy, Obedient, Respectful Children” – he has the seminar version up on his website currently, titled: “How To Raise Respectful, Responsible and Obedient Children”

    Unsurprisingly, the “method” is to “spank” them with “rods” starting at 16-18 months old.