“Sex Abuse in the SBC Is a Distraction From “Real Ministry””

Then someone needs to tell these real ministers to keep their pants on! Multiple hundreds have not according to the Houston Chronicle and the secret list kept in SBC ivory towers for years.

The bad news is: SBC has become a distraction to the Kingdom of God on various fronts … sex abuse, spiritual abuse, good ole boy networks that promote and protect bad boys, drifting theology (New Calvinism), shifting ecclesiology (elder rule), stealth & deception in taking over traditional (non-Calvinist) churches, female bondage to the beauty of complementarity, SBC leaders who shouldn’t be leading anything, etc. etc.

The good news is: the Kingdom of Heaven in the here and now doesn’t need SBC to accomplish its mission on earth.

Yes R. Real ministry is dividing your bread with the poor, not asking for more of it. It is opening your home, especially if your home is very large, to those trying to escape abuse. Nathan correcting King David, God’s words poured out from him, then leaving him to feel the weight of his sin, is ministry.

Dear Misters Brunson and Iorg,
Do ya think Jesus has Attention Deficit Disorder? I mean, the way He just stopped in his tracks and reacted to people who approached him just out of the blue….. big red flag there, huh?
Anyway, you’d better hope He’s easily distracted. Someday, you guys are gonna be wishing for some distractions…..
Humbleness, meekness, humility, obvious love for others, and heartfelt concerns for and a desire to help the downtrodden ….. and all that Jesuseee stuff is just not part of your oh-so-biblical lexicon.

Great post, Dee. It’s time these guys look in the mirror and realize they are a primary reason the SBC is in decline. People watched for several decades as these men promoted themselves and their pals, protected, promoted, defended, and collaborated with frauds (Ergun Caner, Darrel Gilyard), and now they complain that too much attention is being paid to the sexual abuse claims that have come to light.

People have watched these shenanigans and have moved on to non SBC churches. Here in Jax, FBC Jax is probably not even in the top 10 in terms of membership just in Jax, and as you pointed out we know who over saw that massive decline and got out just in the nick of time. I think one of the most under reported SBC stories is how far FBC Jax fell, and just why it fell. Heath Lambert has told some of the story, but man it is an ugly tale of how it all went down six years ago. If the story comes to light some people will be very embarrassed. Even Trinity Baptist didn’t experience that massive of a decline when it was found out their former pastor was abusing boys and girls and the church covered it up including the current pastor. Maybe Heath will tell you the FBC Jax story and you can write about it.

I believe the harm that Darrell Gilyard and Ergun Caner did to the SBC over the past 30 years is incalculable. Look who the players were. Look who supported, promoted and defended these two charlatans. Caner was a fraud through and through and he was defended for several years after his lies were exposed. The men who were behind these men and didn’t put a stop to their nonsense can’t be trusted to fix the SBC. They are the problem.

Tom R: Caner was a fraud through and through and he was defended for several years after his lies were exposed.

Same with Nike Warnke and Peter Popoff.
And Benny Hinn is still being defended by the Faithful.

Nancy2(aka Kevlar),

Yes indeed. I meant to imply that. I don’t trust anyone who was an admirer or supporter of Patterson. What Patterson and SWBTS did to Sheri Klouda was dastardly. The people who were silent and who even helped Patterson by lying about Sheri Klouda are lumped in. I wrote about how Brunson piled on Klouda and misrepresented the facts if Klouda’s plight in a sermon at FBCJ. These guys supported and defended each other’s dirty deeds.

Dave A A: I could only conclude he’d lost a power battle with the biblical counseling guy he’d brought in as a young protege.

Like Elron Hubbard and David Miscavage?
“Roos Bolton really screwed up on that one, didn’t he?”

Dave A A: I could only conclude he’d lost a power battle with the biblical counseling guy he’d brought in as a young protege.

There is a reason the Divine Caesars of Rome didn’t choose their successors.

Headless Unicorn Guy,

Although I’m not familiar with Roos Bolton, it must be his fault! On the Baptist line, the largest one in our county used to be stealthy SBC but has gone independent. This didn’t stop the pastor from being angry and controlling and fond of firing staff. So they put him on sabbatical with a restoration plan. But like Driscoll, that was too hard so he quit. Now I hear he also had a CFA (consenting female adult, but likely a CSA victim). The small baptist church in my town has, it seems, an ok pastor. But before him the guy abused his adopted daughters. And before that the guy had a CFA the whole 7 years he was collecting tithes. So maybe the kind Baptist folk around here can be forgiven if they get distracted from saving souls….

Max,

Related to your comment, Max, is my memory of fundamentalist/evangelicals. I have not been a “regular attender” of those flavors in many years, but what I read here on TWW tells me they are still the same..

SPECIFICALLY, these “types” constantly like to say how their “flavor” of Christainity is the proper one (think the “conservative resurgance” in SBC, etc), and in addition to the “Pure theology” they also harp on “proper piety”, and bash other flavors, and the culture in general… In fact, these types “stick” is basically to say we have the “true way”… O.K. then demonstrate it… which they don’t.
And when someone blows the whistle on them, like leaders molesting underage boys which ranks up there in a reason to “blow the whistle” these leaders are quick to call such things “distractions”… incredible..

“Mac Brunson, who has a history of intimidating those who disagree with him”

Intimidation, manipulation, and domination are not fruit of the Holy Spirit … yet, there has been an outbreak of that among the dudebros who now control SBC. It’s as if the more mean-spirited and abusive you are, the more theo-friends you gather and the higher you rise in the SBC kingdom.

Max,

What do you mean Max…. Christ exhibited allot of intimidation, manipulation, and domination…. ( being VERY sarcastic here)…

I dare Mac Brunson and Jeff Iorg to go from town to town, preaching sermons to law enforcement officers about sex abuse victims being distractions.

Jesus had a lot to say about leaders….and much of it wasn’t good. He had a lot to say about parading one’s piety in public, about wanting to be leaders, and even about not trusting them. Remember the bit about calling no one “father” or “rabbi?”

When the church comes to its senses and follows Jesus, not human beings, it will be on the road to good health.

Reminds me of the era when our kids and grands were little ones. Mama or grandma or some family member would faithfully teach Jesus, and at some point the littles or not so littles would want to accept Christ as Savior. And of course, if it became known at church, the pastor had to swoop in and “make sure they were really saved” as if it wasn’t real salvation without clergy involvement.

Horsefeathers!

Headless Unicorn Guy: Same with Nike Warnke and Peter Popoff.
And Benny Hinn is still being defended by the Faithful.

Mike Warnke (there are Satanists Everywhere) and Peter Popoff (Divine Knowledge courtesy of an earpiece). There a couple of blasts from the past. Wonder how many thousands they conned over the years.

How dysfunctional is it when your theology is based on getting people to Heaven someday when you could care less if they are living in Hell today??

I imagine demographics and many preferring the experiential Christianity of Pentecostal Charismatic churches are a bigger cause of the decline of Southern Baptist churches than sex abuse cases. Mac Brunson seems like an unpleasant fellow lacking any personal charisma common to leaders of large congregations. Last I heard FBC Jacksonville has 2100 members (down from an inflated 30,000 members – seems like the church never removed members who moved away or transferred to other assemblies). I left the SBC because I find Mid Acts Pauline dispensationalism a far superior way to understanding the Bible and how God operates today than the Henry Blackaby “Experiencing God” or the “Biblical Counseling” method popular at SBC churches today.

Troy: I imagine demographics and many preferring the experiential Christianity of Pentecostal Charismatic churches are a bigger cause of the decline of Southern Baptist churches than sex abuse cases.

IMO, millions of pew-sitting SBC members have no idea about the sex abuse issue in SBC. The SBC higher-uppers have covered it up well. Unless it has directly affected their church, they just don’t have a clue about it. The SBC multitudes don’t read watchblogs like TWW nor follow religious press. If it ain’t in the church bulletin, it’s not news!

ishy: I’m thinking they don’t give two cents about ministry and are more concerned about appealing to those who think we should just ignore abusers and let them carry on.

I’m thinking you’re right, that is until there’s a HUGE judgement and payout handed down by the courts. Just like what happened to the Catholic Arch Diocese in Boston. It could very well bankrupt the SBC.

“The SBC… is involved in 42 lawsuits. That is unbelievable. And it is heavily draining our executive committee.”

What if instead of forcing survivors to file lawsuits to get justice that the SBC instead followed biblical practice of repentance demonstrated through acknowledgment of wrongdoing, asking what they could do to mitigate the harm done to the victim, and voluntarily offering financial compensation for therapy, etc. Not only would it be the right thing to do (which should be reason enough to do it), but if money is what motivates them, I think they’d save themselves a lot of money by avoiding court costs and not making the victim angrier by blocking justice.

Acknowledging wrongdoing is itself healing to the victim because it validates his or her experience. Offering empathy and expressing remorse for pain is also healing for the victim. Asking a victim what can be done to help them now also aids healing because it restores their agency and voice. And voluntarily offering financial compensation for therapy, lost work, etc. helps restore wholeness. Some victims would not feel the need for any financial compensation and for those who did need the help, they’ll need much less than if the church put them through the trauma of a legal proceeding.

So whether the motivation is doing right or saving money, wisdom directs the same path.

R’as al Ghul: HUG,

Speaking of Benny Hinn, he has become quite the Sith Lord:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1093Xd-Qwk

The Dark Side is strong in Darth Hinn.