“I’m not upset that you lied to me, I’m upset that from now on I can’t believe you.” ― .
I am leaving for Boston on Friday for my mother’s funeral. She will be buried next to my dad. We are only having our immediate family for a graveside service, and then we will go out to dinner, which is what she wanted. She insisted that we “charge” the dinner to her account! I will post discussion questions for Friday and cancel Echurch this weekend. Stay tuned. I have a concerning story I will discuss soon about another well-known church I attended when I was in Boston.
What does it mean when a church is found on the SBC Church Directory website?
I am fed up with the obfuscation by pastors who claim to follow “the Truth” when it comes to this matter. Many of you might remember when JD Greear ran to become the SBC President. The problem was that most of his members had no idea that the Summit was a member of the SBC. I had more members get irritated with me when I informed them they were Baptists. They, of course, denied it.
In 2018, I wrote that President-Elect J.D. Greear’s Congregation FINALLY Realizes It’s Southern Baptist. You can watch the video there and have a good laugh.
J.D. Greear said:
“The third question some of you just asked is ‘Since when did we become Southern Baptist?’Uh, and I get that. That’s not something we really wear on our sleeve here. There are obviously parts of the Southern Baptist Convention that we’re not excited about, and we don’t feel like really represent who we are as a church…”
As Greear revealed, it’s all about the money – IMB dollars.In our previous post, I mentioned this conundrum. As residents in the same geographic area as The Summit Church, Dee and I have known for years that some Summit attendees had no idea that their church was part of the Southern Baptist Convention. If you check out the church website, you’ll understand why. It’s been one of The Summit’s best kept secrets.
Now Summit members know for certain that they are indeed Southern Baptists since their pastor has been elected SBC president. What a tragedy that Greear has had such shame for the denomination which he will now lead.
Of course, he had all sorts of excuses. The one that gets the most play is that they could cooperate with the SBC for missions as if the Summit wasn’t doing enough missions on their own. What they mean is that there is money involved. For example, the pastor can participate in retirement ‘opportunities.’
It is merely a “partnership”- the big lie.
in 2019, I addressed this topic again in We Are Not Baptists…Are We? Why Are SBC Churches Hiding Their SBC Affiliation From Their Church Members? This is one year from the last post I quoted.
We are not Baptists and the thought of the upsets me.
I was at a gathering with a group of Christians I’ve known for a long time.Person A::”You will be pleased. Our church is setting up a program to help those who have been sexually abused. It’s a really good program which involves outside counselors who are helping us to set up a supportive program.
Me: “That’s wonderful! Are you using the Caring Well materials that the SBC is giving out to churches?”
Person B: “Why would we use Baptist material? Our church isn’t Baptist.
Me (now confused): Your church is a Southern Baptist Church.
Person B: “My brother works there and the church is definitely not Baptist.”
Person A: “I think they don’t talk about it because it’s not important. It’s just in the background”
At this point, I realized that I had stepped into an explosive situation. I know their church is a member of the SBC. Yet, I could tell that they were becoming quite upset so I decided to end the conversation.
I was left with the question: Why did they become upset? Nothing changed. Their church was still the same church. Yet, something changed in the conversation. Tension was present.
So, I introduced the situation on Twitter. I suggested that people check the SBC church directory and see if their *nondenominational* church is listed. A few people responded. They were shocked to discover their nice nondenominational church was really a member of the SBC.
Sadly, Summit and other SBC churches are told to conceal their membership in the SBC. They are coached to tell people that it is not a membership, just a partnership. And that is simply not true.
This next part of that post is essential.
Why do people appear angry when they discover that their church is covertly a member of the SBC?
Here are some possible thoughts.They do not like being purposely left in the dark. This could lead to trust issues within the congregation.
They have heard about the recent reports of abuse in the SBC.
They have heard about the history of racism in the SBC.
They view the SBC as a *religion* that pushes lots of rules and regulations.
They view the denomination as not friendly towards women.
They have given a bunch of money to their church and feel like their own church is lying to them. People like to know how their donations are being used.
They feel like they are viewed by their church leaders as too stupid to understand such matters.
Recently, I have become aware that the SBC is making headway in New England. None of the ones I checked admitted that the church was a member of the SBC!
I contend that this is a big lie. It is predicated on the fact that many church members are trusting and don’t check things carefully., In other words, it’s better to keep them stupid. “Let’s preach Jesus, and when we hook ’em, we’ll laugh it off and say it’s merely a “partnership.” Greear got away with it, and so did many others.
David Platt and McLean Bible Church
Frankly, I knew that the people of this church were naive in calling Platt. Their previous pastor was Lon Solomon. He was an effective, generic evangelical and was beloved by many in the congregation. Looking for a way to slide out of the onerous IMB, Platt discovered a church with lots of money and infrastructure and saw a cash cow.
I have no problem with a church calling an SBC pastor. I have no problem with them joining the SBC. I have a problem with churches like the Summit, which played games with the SBC membership until JD was gonna be President. By then, the spin machine was well-developed, and he got away with his little obfuscation.
Well, Platt has miffed off many of the members of McLean Bible Church, and they aren’t sitting back and smiling about it. You see, there was a pesky little clause in the bylaws.
It appears there is going to be further action at McLean Bible Church. That little snippet was from this document addressed to parties at MBC from Chap, Petersen, and Associates, PLC.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-kqrOUDyebTM943ThdiOdEaFtVR8bF9g/view
If you say, “Well, maybe it was a sweet little partnership and didn’t mean anything,” look at this following document. It appears that Heather, wife to Platt, was elected to be a messenger to the SBC convention. That means she could VOTE for the church.
Here is a link to the entire document.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-qfw_uM1Z_4JJ2JGYsFw_yUnnWnjiA1n/view
If you want to laugh, the Capstone Report posted a video of David Platt saying that the church is not a member of the SBC.
I wonder how this happened. Did Heather get her flight, hotel room, food, and incidentals paid by MBC? Did she feel a bit guilty? I sure hope she did because, if she didn’t, that speaks for itself.
There are two other issues that I want to discuss on this matter, and I plan to do so next week.
Final thoughts
- A church that sends messengers to vote at the SBC convention means the church is a member of the SBC.
- All those joining a church should be told, in the new members class, that they are entering a Baptist church.
- Pastors should deal with the inevitable questions about child sex abuse, sex abuse of adults, money questions, etc.
- If the above is not dealt with, then church leaders are lying. Failing to mention a difficult truth is a lie.
- Tell them immediately if they don’t know. For example, Greear and friends knew the people didn’t think they were Baptists. Therefore, tell them before you need them to understand why you will be President of the SBC.
- In my opinion, Platt planned to move MBC to become SBC from the start. If he didn’t say anything, this is deceptive and unworthy of a possible pastor.
- David Platt is an SBC pastor, and it appears he lied.
At first, I thought this was a bunch of control freaks trying to undermine David Platt. I now don’t believe that to be the case. It appears, to this outside observer, that they had the right to be upset.
I look forward to seeing how Platt’s attorneys get him out of this. Stay tuned.
Unfortunately, I have seen way to examples, over many decades, of evangelical groups and churches to “lose with the facts”…. Marketing ( or other less savory reasons) always seems to ‘win”..
Dee, praying your mom’s funeral is a time of shared comfort and sharing fond memories.
“All those joining a church should be told, in the new members class, that they are entering a Baptist church.”
They want your time, your attention, and your money, without telling you who they are.
It is really seems that an SBC pastor can be just about anything (a liar; a backstabbed; a self-centered, controlling jerk; an abuser; one who protects and lies for his buddies who are abusers….) except a faithful, honest, well-educated, upstanding woman.
FYI: I was a member of a little SBC country church for over 20 years and did not know it until I left and went to another church. When the pastor at the new church said something about sending a letter to my old church to request a transfer my membership, he had to explain.
I recently read a series of credible articles that contrasted Platt’s luxurious lifestyle against the words from his own book; ‘Radical’, in which he harshly condemned the material comfort of Christians, and their lack of sacrificial financial giving.
After reading ‘Radical’ years ago, I now view it in similar light as K.P. Yohannon’s ‘Gospel For Asia’ grift exposure …that likewise, chastised Christians for the excessive indulgences they allowed themselves (scented soap, modern kitchen appliances, air conditioning) while the impoverished subjects of his alleged mission field, struggled to find daily sustenance.
Yohannon’s exquisitely crafted efforts to fleece the flock through ‘shaming and ‘guilting’ Christians into sacrificial giving (AKA: enriching himself), was later exposed and really pi$$e$ me off every time his ‘Gospel For Asia’ plea for funds is found in my mailbox!
I don’t have a problem with convicting challenges to support ministry efforts to the impoverished …but I DO expect to witness a lifestyle CONSISTENT with those calls to SACRIFICE, from the same individuals whom make such appeals.
My financial giving ‘RADICALLY’ declined after realizing I’d been emotionally manipulated by both men, through their books. Amazing how these individuals can look in the mirror and live with their hypocrisy.
Greed, financial malfeasance, ethical corruption and manipulation aren’t as wickedly offensive as the physical abuse so often exposed and discussed here …but it’s closely related.
Dave,
Great comment and wisdom Dave!
Disagree, now let me finish … this type of manipulation, malfeasance, and corruption is, IMHO, equally wicked as physical abuse.
2 notes:
1. With the trifecta of power, vice (such as CSA & DV), and profit, they all work together.
2. Extortion and CSA, are both on the list of 6 that should be avoided by participants (disfellowshipped) in church communities, according to 1 Cor. 5. Equally toxic.
Dave,
Excellent comment.
Link? To the articles?
If we, as pew people, follow the advice of 1 Cor. 5 by disfellowshipping 6 specific practicing people who call themselves “brother” or Christians, will we even end up with church?
Maybe.
In any case, unfortunately, we may lose many of our present church leaders.
We may also save our children, youth, minors, men and women from violation (vice). We may be better stewards of our resources (abuse of time & $$$). We may live with our agency intact (abuse of power).
Notably, 1 Cor. 5 doesn’t seem to be advising strongman topdown authoritative church discipline. It seems to appeal to each of us, as John and Jane Doe Churchfolk, to be circumspect about with whom we socially acknowledge as brothers and sisters in Christ.
Once you have to hide who you are as a church or to which denomination you belong (because it’s too shameful), the only thing that makes sense is to shut the thing down and shutter the doors.
Dave,
I appreciate your comment. You have hit on a subject I intended to discuss next week. I will use your comment if you don’t mind. Thank you.
Dee … thoughts and prayers with you and your family on Friday.
“the pastor can participate in retirement ‘opportunities'”
Could it be that thousands of non-Calvinist SBC pastors have not stood against the New Calvinist wave taking over their denomination because they fear losing their retirement annuities?
Any statement from MacLean Bible Church should be approached as if it came from North Korea.
(Wondering Eagle’s had some problems with them, too. I think they were a major burn job in his path.)
I remember when both SBC churches and CotN churches began changing their names. Cutesy generic usually geographic names like Willow Brook or Mountain Heights.
Yeah, right. IF you are ashamed of either the behavior or teachings of your denomination, leave it. IF you are not ashamed, be bold about it.
At one point in one town the SBC church wanted, openly, to attract gay and transgender folks who would not otherwise attend. Fair enough if you give them the actual, not trademarked, gospel AND if once inside the door you are open and honest about being a Baptist church. There the idea was get them first to come, then to join, and then later on teaching them what we believe the Bible says about those things, ask them to repent and get saved.
We left. First off, we are old enough to remember when the SBC only sought a born again membership. All comers to be welcome and treated nicely, but membership, communion, baptism, voting, and serving were reserved for those that at least had made a profession of repentance and of having been born again. So it wasn’t really an SBC church.
Secondly, we felt it was trying to bait and switch gay people and transgenders into attending and giving money.
No matter if you agree with the conservative view on those issues or not, that is not how you treat human beings.
Better to be open and honest about who you are and what you believe. Sure, some folks will disagree and not attend. That’s OK. It isn’t important how many attend.
It is about truth telling even if that truth as you see it is going to be massively unpopular.
“Deceptive and unworthy of a possible pastor” are key words from Dee’s post. How many pastors have been called by churches which have not been informed by the candidate that their intention is to change the church’s denomination, doctrinal statement, governing polity from congregational to elder ruled, etc. How many young male pastors think they are called to lead like a CEO or entrepreneur instead of serve like a shepherd? Deception and domination are not qualifications for successful ministry; they are certain disqualifiers. It does not matter how impressive the person is in the pulpit or as an author.
There have been thousands of SBC New Calvinist church plants over the past several years. They have cool church names with no reference to “Baptist”. I suspect that members at most of them have no idea they are affiliated with the SBC.
A young reformer in my area did the right thing. Under the church name on the sign out front it reads “A Reformed Southern Baptist Church”. On the church website, it explains what both “Reformed” and “Southern Baptist” mean. I may not agree with the young pastor’s theology, but I appreciate his honesty and transparency about who he is and the theology that members can expect him to deliver.
“Southern Baptist” is a name that has been in the media a lot in recent years. SBC is always fighting and splitting over something, and of course there is the widespread abuse problems. I suspect the young reformers simply desire to hide their affiliation, while enjoying the benefits of church planting funds, health benefits, retirement program, etc.
Platt’s modus operandi at MBC has been typical of SBC’s new reformers … stealth and deception.
And what spirit would that be?
The title fit with Platt’s involvement with the New Calvinist movement. He was one of the early darlings of the revolution. He became a star with sensational statements about the core belief and practice of millions of Southern Baptists. One of his more infamous claims was that the sinner’s prayer is superstitious and unBiblical.
https://thewartburgwatch.com/2012/06/25/david-platt-says-the-sinners-prayer-is-superstitious-and-unbiblical-2/
You have just described the modus operandi of the new reformation within SBC ranks. New Calvinists have no problem concealing (lying) about their theological leaning when interviewed by traditional (non-Calvinist) SBC pastor search committees. That happened at an SBC church near me, resulting in a church split after the young pastor deceptively changed congregational governance to elder-rule polity. I suppose the new reformers justify their stealth and deception because it is good for the movement to restore the one true church to America (Calvinism = Gospel to them). In the case of the church I mentioned, the New Calvinists ended up with the church building and property which had been paid for by the non-Calvinist membership through years of faithful giving to retire the debt. Folks, this is not a God-thing.
Max,
They may “justify their stealth and deception” but they will be held accountable on the Day that is coming. I’m glad Dee and others hold some of them accountable now.
I have a feeling that many of them will experience a touch of His hand before then. Presumption that God is on your side is a dangerous game.
If someone DOESN’T hold them accountable NOW, all your “God Will Hold Them Accountable on The Day That Is Coming” is just more pious platitudes. These guys must be seen to lose in the Here and Now, or all we’re doing is just sitting quietly with folded hands mouthing Pious Platitudes.
Like that atheist meme that was making the rounds a couple years ago:
“Give a man a fish, you’ve fed him for one meal.
Teach a man to fish, you’ve fed him for life.
Give a man religion, and he’ll starve to death praying for a fish.”
Faith must have application in the here-and-now.
Including exposing the corrupt in the here-and-now.
A Righteous enough End justifies any means whatsoever.
Ask Citizen Robespierre and Comrade Pol Pot.
I realize this is not true, but it sure seems like the only requirement is to be a man.
“Faithful, honest, well-educated, upstanding” seem to be optional and very likely to just get in the way of “doing whatever needs to be done” in so many “Christian” environments these days.
There are much worse things being done, but your statment is a massive understatement
Headless Unicorn Guy,
Reference to “the Day that is coming” is not a pious platitude but a confident expectation rooted in good biblical theology based on Romans 2:1-16, the letter of Jude, and many other clear and unambiguous texts. And, I did say that “I’m glad Dee and others are holding some of them accountable now”—so I’m not sure what your complaint is.
I appreciate your kind words, Thanks! (Though, I’m not sure if this is actually ‘wisdom’, rather than development of ‘cause-and-effect callouses’).
Okay, point taken …I can see your sound rationale.
Perhaps I should have said to the effect; ‘manipulation, financial malfeasance and ethical corruption, while inexcusably wicked violations of one’s personhood, the cerebral nature of these offenses bypass the physical, to directly assault intellect and emotion, inflicting upon the victim, intangible scars …from moral injury.
Thanks for your kind sentiment!
I hope I’m not unintentionally violating forum protocol by providing the requested link to the report I had referenced: (If so, please delete it and forgive me Dee!)
The linked article pertains to Platt. The expose on K.P. Yohannon’s GFA grift occurred enough years ago that I don’t have a ‘ready reference’ on hand. I’d expect google would be ‘very pleased’ to cough-up any scandalous reference to such a Christian ministry.
https://capstonereport.com/2023/12/17/david-platts-prosperity-gospel-platt-buys-1-1-million-home/42532/
I’m gratified to know your thoughts on the topic are ‘serendipitously aligned’! By all means, whatever I’ve posted that you might have some use of …please freely borrow! BTW: I always enjoy running across your insightful contributions at TRR or SBC Voices.
(Praying for healing blessings upon you and yours)
I just checked out the article (thanks for the link!). Yeah, isn’t it amazing that the most vocal attention-seeking pulpiteers whom seem to be constantly urging their flock to ‘Something MORE’ …eventually are found to be in duplicitous violation of their own counsel? Has he forgotten?: “You ARE the man!”
I’m ashamed at how many times I recognized at the LAST moment …that the stinging sensation of conviction washing over my soul …was from realizing that ‘my message’ …was actually intended by God, to be preached primarily for MYSELF.
“In my opinion, Platt planned to move MBC to become SBC from the start.” (Dee)
Another jewel in his SBC crown … another takeover victory for the New Calvinist movement … another sad chapter in the book yet to be written about the stealth and deception of the new reformation.
Dave,
“Amazing how these individuals can look in the mirror and live with their hypocrisy.”
++++++++++++
when the end justifies the means, the end is the concept of God, anything can be justified with righteousness enough to pat oneself on the back with congratulations and untroubled sleep.
Afterburne,
“I realize this is not true, but it sure seems like the only requirement is to be a man.”
++++++++++++
in the final analysis, taken to its logical end, yes, it is true.
and incredibly stupid.
Dave,
Thx for the link.
Jesus did not have good things to say about leaders who place burdens on parishioners while securing a life of ease for themselves. Woe.
Can they really loose their retirement investments? As long as they’re vested, doesn’t the fund stay with them, even if they change employers?
I suppose an SBC pastor wouldn’t lose his retirement fund if he left SBC, but he would lose additional contributions to it. In most cases, their church contributes to the fund as part of their employment benefits. Thus, a non-Calvinist pastor may opt to hang on in SBC as the New Calvinist movement swirls around them.
Dave,
This is a summary of the Yohanan years. The Canadian class action referred to in the article was dismissed in 2022.
https://billionbibles.com/gospel-for-asia.html
I appreciate your inclusion of the GFA link. Several years passed since my awareness of Yohannon’s scam was made public, but it was nice to get a chronology of the pertinent facts refreshed. Thanks!
Dave,
There are respective gradations as per unique situation: all severe. In a spirit of “tolerance towards imperfection” (towards ostentatious bungling) I sat (in denomination after denomination) through nonsense that those (even) more directly impacted weren’t (to my knowledge) complaining about; what do the religious authorities take us for? We take the shame of the dents in our heads and our morale with us through life as well as / if not the other dents. The main ethos of religious authority is to dent morale via minds, to make us feel as dirty as they were made to do by their forerunners. Secular authority just rises to the bar.
According to the prophets Chapter 13 in “Distraction”:
“hold on, it’s a momentary action
all the kids on the street making reaction
sorry don’t mean to be a distraction
what’s the plan of action”
“The” truth is the last knee-jerk, the last sleight of hand, the last finagle. If love is attention to detail, studied non-remembrance must be a form of hate. When religion lacks principle of principle, what will the upcoming generation of agnostics learn (who are expected to shoulder captaincy of industry and administration)?
linda,
You’ve seen that pretend liberal and pretend conservative are the same thing.
One can even “make a profession of repentance and of having been born again” without intruding into communion.
As an unmarried young person under about 25, what you described was what I was on the receiving end of at the RCC sitting out, feeling perfectly well accepted (for the hour a week) with nobody wheedling at me to go through any hoops.
I hear the slogan “Jesus did it all”. Jesus didn’t do their radically sacrificial praying for them.
That’s because he mistook us for megaphoning and posing instead of doing something properly personal.
In the New Calvinist world, they say “God did it all” … they hardly ever mention Jesus. They claim to be Christ-followers, but seldom mention His name.
“The rights of the king who will rule you will be as follows:
“He will take your sons and assign them to his chariots and horses, and they will run before his chariot. He will also appoint from among them his commanders of groups of a thousand and of a hundred soldiers.
“He will set them to do his plowing and his harvesting,
and to make his implements of war and the equipment of his chariots.
“He will use your daughters as ointment makers, as cooks, and as bakers.
“He will take the best of your fields, vineyards, and olive groves, and give them to his officials. He will tithe your crops and your vineyards, and give the revenue to his eunuchs and his slaves.
“He will take your male and female servants, as well as your best oxen and your asses,
and use them to do his work. He will tithe your flocks and you yourselves will become his slaves.
“When this takes place, you will complain against the king whom you have chosen, but on that day the LORD will not answer you.”
From 1 Samuel 8. They wanted a king. Samuel lays out the consequences.
Human nature hasn’t changed much. From chapels to megas, beware the “churches” that want and support their kings.
Churches are just not into that.
Popular supercedes truth. Barabbas wins over Jesus. The crowds don’t see that there’s a resurrection at the end of the story.
> I was left with the question: Why did they become upset? Nothing changed.
Decades ago, when I was associated with an independent fundamentalist baptist congregation, in discussion of the local church “landscape” or “ecosystem”, I encountered strong hostility to hierarchical forms of supracongregational “polity.” It seems that Baptists strongly value the absolute independence of their congregations.
I think one sees the reason for this in the McLean BC bylaw cited in the OP — “shall remain independent for the promotion of the Gospel”.
The thinking seems to be (and this echoes what I was told decades ago by people who were proudly IFB) that if a local congregation is under the authority of a supra-congregational entity, that entity has the power to corrupt the gospel message proclaimed by the local congregation. In conservative Baptist thinking, RCC would be the “index case” of this phenomenon. Presbyterianism may be regarded as another example, with their (from baptist point of view) dangerous practice of baptizing people who have not yet come to conscious faith in Christ.
It seems to me that SBC considers itself a “voluntary association” rather than a true hierarchical “denomination”. I think that there is similar thinking in groups such as the reformed baptist group ARBCA. Being “voluntary”, the higher-level entity does not have the power to compel local congregations to change their gospel proclamation.
I suspect that this accounts for the strong resistance expressed in the cited conversation. Congregational independence/autonomy is something of a sine qua non for many of them.
That states the American church dilemma well. Whatever we choose over Jesus is ‘our’ Barabbas. Pet theology, instead of truth … celebrity over calling … overlord, instead of servant … religious noise over the voice of God. Give us Barabbas we shout!
Do pastors who fib tell “white” lies? Are mistruth and half-truth ‘truth’?
“In’shal’lah… Al’lah’u Akbar!”
Is this the same Yohannon guy who turned his “Gospel for Asia” into a hyper-liturgical church with himself as its Pope of Popes? Like an EO clone except with more elaborate bling-bling?
There will come a day when they rue the day that they were incredibly stupid over inflexible ‘gender roles’.
Muff Potter,
it’s inevitable. just on survival instinct alone
(as if restricting vitality in certain kinds of human beings from benefitting the greater good could ever ultimately succeed.)
Muff Potter,
i suppose i’m a feminist in the sense of an everyone-ist.
i know it gets weirdly complicated – when does promoting one idea become restricting another.
however, i do expect men who are threatened by feminism to put on their thinking caps, with the logic feature enabled,
and realize the folly & detriment to themselves & everyone of prohibiting superior excellence because it doesn’t present as a man (or even as ‘man enough’).
ridiculous.
Headless Unicorn Guy,
Yes, you have it right. “Kiss the ring in submission to my authority”
The link that ‘Lowlandseer’ provided documents the chronology of Yohannon’s GFA scandal exposure.
Francis Chan is yet, another ‘celebrity pastor’ whom I’d once admired …(before his unmoored theological drift), whom is also tied to this shameful affair. Apparently he was a trustee or board member paid by Yohannon to provide the appearance of financial accountability oversight.
Yup, the title for Chan’s popular book; ‘Crazy Love’ …might have been an unintentionally prophetic choice, that portended his willingness to endorse virtually anyone on the ragged fringe, via his bizarre partnerships with heretical teachers and strange movements.
Isn’t the root issue here a lack of the fear of God? Whenever we fear offending people more than we fear offending God, or when pleasing people becomes more important than pleasing God, lies and deception will be the inevitable result, because people can be deceived and manipulated and God cannot. May God grant each one of us to seek Him in humility and pray with all our hearts: “Search me, O God, and know my heart: try me and know my thoughts: and see if there be any wicked way in me, and lead me in the way everlasting” (Psalm 139:23-24).
It’s impossible to lie to others for long without being deceived ourselves, and therefore unless GOD is the one searching our hearts and revealing our true condition to ourselves, our own attempts at self-examination will only strain out gnats and go on swallowing camels.
If we are willing to do this, God has promised: “Behold, thou desirest truth in the inward parts: and in the hidden part thou shalt make me to know wisdom” (Psalm 51:6).
Margret Meyer,
Amen, Margret!
Another darling of the early New Calvinist movement, Chan ran with the big dogs … Platt, Driscoll, MacDonald … all have proven to be more on the crazy side, than known for their love.
Max,
Yeah, I remember being so impressed by hearing HIS account of reaching the decision to just walk-away from the success and security of leading an affluent Calvary Chapel-Mega on the left coast. (In light of what he’s aligned himself with …I can’t help wondering if his departure was voluntary)
After finding myself enthralled by his passionate and humorous teaching style, I felt so disheartened by Chan’s public displays of compromised discernment. I guess we all have woeful examples of our once favored pastor-teachers, whom inexplicably changed course …in stark contrast of their own prior convictions.
Yes, I call it my “disappointment list” … those who swapped the blessing for a bowl of stew and left their followers disillusioned. TWW reports on a steady stream of these characters.
In addition to the stealth affiliation with the SBC, Platt also wanted to kill any money going to organic ministries among the people at the church. Platt wanted that money sent to the SBC agencies. Some of that money got sent back to Platt’s organization “Radical”.
Platt also ran a “social justice” scam. By running off thousands of MacLean members, Platt was able to promote and get secured as lead pastor a social justice warrior.
There’s a long time former member of MacLean on YouTube named Sal who has posted some good videos on all of this.
As President of SBC’s International Mission Board, New Calvinist Platt recalled 1,000 career missionaries from foreign fields, citing a funding shortage. (Reckon what theological flavor those missionaries were?) At the same time, his New Calvinist bud Kevin Ezell over at SBC’s North American Board spent $60 million per year to plant 1,000 new churches each year. (Reckon what theological flavor those young pastors were?) If they had asked SBC’s mainline (non-Calvinist) Southern Baptists where they would prefer to spend limited funds, I suspect they would have kept those missionaries on the field … in my opinion.
Like Don Carson.
Oracle at Delphi,
All denominations “have” parallel structures more powerful than the “proper” ones, it’s nothing new.
Persons in legit positions hope the parallels will go away or forget to interfere with them. I’ve seen those in charge in two different major sorts of church here trying to attend to the damage the parallels caused.
>At first, I thought this was a bunch of control freaks trying to undermine David Platt.
Glad you changed your mind!!
I was one of the plantiffs in the case that brought a lot of all of this to light. Platt spent MILLIONS of congregational dollars to fight our legal probes to compel disclosure of documents such as the one where the SBC invited Platt.
There is still one legal probe ongoing which MBC has already spent $750,00 to fight and this could easily go to 2 million if that probe goes to trial…
MBC spent a million to fight our legal probe.
Check out the Evidence and Reasons YouTube channel where I go into detail about how MBC spent a million dollars to fight our legal probe. Also look for the Titles:
“Sal in NY Times Legal Sect., Chap Peterson Champion of Truth, Chuck “nothing-to-hide” Hollingsworth”
and
“McLean Bible Lawsuit: Lon Solomon on Fox News on Christmas Eve 2004 vs. David Platt 2023”
Missionaries typically don’t work in high revenue regions.
In what demographic is the SBC NAB planting new churches? High income? Average income? Low income?
The demographics of the new church plants may explain the pivot.
Can’t install stained glass windows of their iconic leaders for their Hall of Fame (Hall of Flame for some, the perverts), without being flush with cash, for example.
From what I understand, the 1,000 recalled career missionaries from foreign fields weren’t working in high revenue regions of the world.
There have been 10,000+ new churches planted across North America since Kevin Ezell became President, SBC’s North American Mission Board. I’m sure it’s out there somewhere, but I’ve not seen anything on exact location in regard to average income in the area of each plant.
https://www.namb.net/send-network/church-planting/
When I read the article in the Washington Post about McLean Bible, I saw two threads in it. First was Platt going against a lot of the church’s bylaws and bypassing the authority and voting structures set in place. I know at least one person who left because of that, and all of the people I knew from when I attended twenty years ago have left. I never had trouble there, but wasn’t aware of behind the scenes stuff. The other thread is that a lot of the previous congregation think Platt is too “ woke”. I am middle of the road, though becoming more liberal in our current chaotic state. When I see post of former and current church attendees, I’m shocked at how conservative they are, especially given the political climate of northern Virginia.
Same game plan used by all new reformers when they take over a church for the glory of the New Calvinist movement. Stealth and deception are their modus operandi. There must be a play book circulating in NeoCal ranks for them to follow.
I have two comments//
First , I attended MBC in the 80’s as a high school student, after a youth outreach in my high school and run by the MBC youth pastor led to my conversion in 9th grade. I also attended during summers in college… Lon Solomon was the pastor, and it was not fancy or rich. Just a simple Bible church. Surreal to see what it has become.
Second, from 2002-2004, my now ex/husband and I were members of a growing seeker friendly style church in Ft Worth with the innocuous name, Fellowship of the Parks. It was modeled after Rick Warren‘s church, saddleback, and this was during the heyday of the purpose driven church craze. After a few months there, I learned that it was an SBC church… I realized then that many churches were what I then called “stealth Baptist,” because they did not want to affiliate publicly because the SBC was not “on brand” for hip pastors, who wanted to attract the unchurched. I thought that was sneaky and dishonest. This is apparently a pattern.
Margret Meyer,
i – are we seeing what is meant by “mission creep”?
ii – churchgoers need more of critical theories, not less. Holy Spirit illuminated Holy Scripture divides between marrow and bone.
And for what?
Some Greek words all run together on crumbling parchments?
Words from Paul to his protege (Timothy) in Ephesus that they take to be absolute commands, like a kind new of ‘Torah’?
Former CLC’er,
Two controversies for the price of one = belt and braces. Indeed, three: which controversy is “the” real / fake, right / wrong controversy?
Spinning heads in plain sight. May as well be hung for a lamb as for a sheep (there is a strangely heart warming Scripture about a lamb stealer, what’s his name now).
Michael in UK,
And at not much older than 25, I was told in front of people younger than me (by an animator), that I was suspect in the eyes of theology-of-the-body.
The man that had employed that animator was later found with his fingers in the till.
Dr. Ruth Ben-ghiat points this out in a video posted today: Authoritarian leaders conveniently rearrange the institution or org so they can get their way, do/get whatever they want, with NO consequences, to the point where the authoritarian leader normalizes evil.
Of course, Dr. Ben-ghiat’s research involves country leaders, which we won’t mention here.
It’s evil that this goes on in churches. The Pressler-Patterson leadership tenure is a stark and terrifying example. Is there anyone of sane mind and conscience who holds that Pressler violating boys, youth, and young men via churches is NOT evil? Yet it was normalized and went on for decades.
In this lengthy article about priests, a priest claims that it’s common Knowledge that children seduce adults.
https://bulletin.hds.harvard.edu/the-study-of-religion-on-the-other-side-of-disgust/
It’s amazing how much evil is called good and good called evil in the American church. Pressler’s acts were evil … just as the stealth and deception used by a new generation of Southern Baptists (New Calvinists) are dark at the core. It’s the stuff that frogs in a boiling kettle is made of … slowly acclimated until they die, rather than jumping out. Southern Baptists die spiritually when they accept evil as normal behavior. For God’s sake, get out of the kettle and turn it upside down!
Muff Potter,
“And for what?
Some Greek words all run together on crumbling parchments?
Words from Paul to his protege (Timothy) in Ephesus that they take to be absolute commands, like a kind new of ‘Torah’?”
++++++++++++++++++++
seems to me that the object of the exercise of much of christianity is counting the spots on the ladybugs on the leaves of the twig on the branch of the tree among many trees in the forest.
and reporting back to get a foil star of approval pressed on one’s nose (certainly not on one’s forhead).
the more foil stars one racks up (and displays), the more points one gets. the better things will work out in this life and the next. (and the more one can feel righteous about it, and show off — in many passive ways while pretending not to).
If you are getting tired of GFA flooding your mailbox (thus increasing the weight of your trash or recycling cart), I suggest sending them a letter, via certified mail with return receipt requested, informing them that you no longer support their “ministry” and that they remove you from their mailing list.
(As many of these groups use third-party firms for their fundraising efforts, if they do remove you, it may be 2-3 months before the mailings cease.)
If, after a reasonable period of time, they continue to send you unwanted mailings, send a second letter (same way), notifying them that you consider their actions to be harassment, and any further contact (again, after a reasonable period of time) will be grounds for legal action.
Lowlandseer,
The site is informative; however, when they speak about the “true Gospel”, they use YouTube clips from Paul Washer. For those who don’t know, Washer is a hardcore Calvinist.
To a hardcore Calvinist, Calvinism = Gospel. The New Calvinists have taken that message to the extreme by running roughshod over non-Calvinist churches to restore the one true gospel (Calvinism) which they believe has been lost from Christendom.
Mark R,
Yes, I agree that this is the standard procedure for affecting the de-listing of your mail correspondence inclusion by an organization. I guess the nature of my disgust for them is such, that I don’t even wish to formally acknowledge them.
It actually feels somewhat redeeming to allow them to continue wasting time/money on me …with zero potential return on their investment. The pleading for support also serves as a discerning reminder to remain skeptical …and perform one’s ‘due diligence’ before contributing funding to anything allegedly ‘Christian’ again. “Feel the burn, then learn!”
Shortly after responding to Mark R. (concerning his valid suggestion that I consider initiating ‘standard procedure’ to terminate unwanted organizational correspondence), I stumbled upon the timely existence of a ministry checklist, intended to measure the relative ‘worthiness’ an organization possesses, in receiving your financial support.
I’d only been previously aware of Guidestar, so I thought this link may likewise, be viewed as a useful tool to help inform giving decisions.
https://ministrywatch.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/Red-Flags-%E2%80%93-booklet-v5-no-marks.pdf
i.e. “There is no Christ, there is only CALVIN.”
I was unable to post a couple weeks ago, but maybe I can now.
I am 100% against Calvinism and my initial opposition to Platt taking over MBC was based on anti-Calvinism as well as the clearly undemocratic way he was muscled into power at MBC, but the leftist surge in the SBC is far broader than Calvinism.
John MacArthur is a Calvinist but I can certainly respect his faith and integrity despite my anti-Calvinism. Even if there were no financial improprieties (and there are clearly MANY) the leftism of the SBC is pervasive even leaving Calvinism aside.
SBC has some real characters on both the extreme left and extreme right. Toss in diverse theologies with distinctly different views of God’s plan of salvation, congregational vs. elder-rule polity, egalitarian vs. complementarian, etc. etc. … the denomination is in theo-tension. I just don’t see the two sides coexisting much longer. There will most likely be yet another contentious SBC division, with yet another reason for a lost world to say “See, there’s nothing to it.”
To them, Paul is the gold-standard, and like you’ve commented before, you’ll never hear them preach Jesus.
Never mind that the Rabbi from Tarsus constantly pointed to the Rabbi from Nazareth…
Somehow I don’t think that his definition of Theology of the Body is the same as, say, the Pope’s.
On the contrary I think they are all the same and and he was brought in by a person approved by my church region (until the latter was found embezzling). They and the Moral Majority (materialists) established a political correctness at that time. General supplication was exactly what they weren’t teaching us to do when we needed leadership. Your 1969 was different from our 1969 and that was when I smelled a rat but I didn’t know which churches to stay away from. Religious leaders have intruded into private matters since at least the 1920s.
He hasn’t got enough integrity because he hasn’t got belief in Holy Spirit and relies on the backlash against Jim Jones types to sell a book I at one time found plausible (the same way as Don Carson does), and his own reported management standards and associations give him away.