The SWOT (Surface Water and Ocean Topography) satellite has sent back the first taste of the detailed data it will provide about Earth’s surface water. NASA/JPL
“The people who are bullying you, they’re insecure about who they are, and that’s why they’re bullying you. It never has to do with the person they’re bullying. They desperately want to be loved and be accepted, and they go out of their way to make people feel unaccepted so that they’re not alone.” Madelaine Petsch
Mark Driscoll, as well as many people in this world, have a peculiar idea. If people don’t act or look, or do things the way I think they should, they must be sidelined. Why is this? It’s pretty simple. Such people do not feel comfortable in their skin. Anyone who sees or lives differently is to be suspect and isolated.
Two years ago, I posted about Mark Driscoll’s bizarre new church in Scottsdale: Dear Mark Driscoll. He’s Back and, If the Stories Are True, He Appears to Be Bonkers.* In this post, I discussed the sad tales of those who did not follow Driscoll exactly. They and their families would be suddenly thrown off the campus. These sudden and peculiar actions on the part of Driscoll were enlightening. Driscoll is terribly insecure. He got out of Seattle when people who had influence began to question his controlling and seemingly paranoid behavior.
Driscoll’s apparent insecurities cause him to measure how much he can trust others: Spectrum of Trust.
He learned his lesson. Upon arrival in Scottsdale, he was determined to never be in such a position again. So, he started a thing called the “Spectrum of Trust.” As you read the following, make sure that you understand that to have regular interactions with Driscoll and his family, you would have to be rated a “10” on a scale from “0-10.
Brandon said my ability to lead my family was in question because I was seen in a photo with a Pastor Dustin, whom you treated horribly and slandered. Brandon said he just sat through a staff meeting where you went over a “Spectrum of Trust” with the staff, where you rated individuals on a sliding scale of 0-10 based on how much trust you and the church have in them. He pulled up a picture he took from the dry erase board in your office and proceeded to brief me on this spectrum of trust. Brandon said that the higher the level of trust, the more access someone gets. I asked, “access to what?” to which Brandon replied, “The Driscolls because they are at level 10“. Once again, It’s All About the Driscolls.
In the post, I wrote about accusations that Driscoll does not allow inlaws (a couple of his kids are married)on the church campus. His kids hold positions in the church. Presumably, they are at the center of the Spectrum of Trust. He has an obedient security team whose job it is to protect him from people, or so it seems.
There was a group of men who were trusted to be part of Driscoll’s security entourage.
The detail was formed to provide safety for you and your family, with Marc Stirton running the screening and selection process for those so allowed to be in your “inner circle” as he is a “trusted” friend of the family.
…Having your entourage escort you from the parking lot to your office, to the sanctuary and back to the office, then back to the parking lot, and even driving you to and from your house is a tad dramatic
Driscoll is increasingly isolating himself and is allegedly building a secret corridor(I wonder if the church members are paying for this?)
You currently have an engineering team working on drafting the plans to blast a hole through the concrete and steel wall backstage to have a private entrance into your office from behind stage so you “don’t have to deal with being interrupted by people.”
Driscoll’s caricatures are a distortion of the faith.
Sadly, we are surrounded by people who will not trust or engage with others due to their fear of others. Jewish people are targeted simply for being Jewish. NPR reports that Threats against Palestinian, Muslim and Jewish people has spiked since the war began. Driscoll is like all of these people. He fears “the other.” He has placed himself as the “Arbiter of what is right,” and the equally insecure people who follow him will trust him to show them “Who is doing it wrong” and “Who it is we should laugh at.” There is no love in his equation.
Driscoll is not secure enough to say, “I disagree.” He needs to make fun of “the other” so his followers will know who is not accepted in their circles. He is a bully, exhibiting few fruits of the spirit as he belittles others to make himself look more significant in the eyes of his following.
If there is an unmarried lady in her 50s, she must have lots of cats as well as 2 STDs.
View this post on Instagram
There is an unmarried Christian woman on Twitter who was hurt and offended by Driscoll’s caricature. She said she had hoped to get married, but it hasn’t happened. She has no cats and certainly has no STDs. I think she, or someone else, made the point that loneliness in America is now an epidemic. Even those who have families can experience loneliness. I bet Mark Driscoll is lonely, but he has to preen and strut like he isn’t.”I’m not lonely. That woman over there is lonely, and she probably has 7 cats. Stop looking at me.”
The NYT posted Surgeon General: We Have Become a Lonely Nation. It’s Time to Fix That.
At any moment, about one out of every two Americans is experiencing measurable levels of loneliness. This includes introverts and extroverts, rich and poor, and younger and older Americans. Sometimes loneliness is set off by the loss of a loved one or a job, a move to a new city, or health or financial difficulties — or a once-in-a-century pandemic.
Other times, it’s hard to know how it arose but it’s simply there. One thing is clear: Nearly everyone experiences it at some point. But its invisibility is part of what makes it so insidious. We need to acknowledge the loneliness and isolation that millions are experiencing and the grave consequences for our mental health, physical health and collective well-being.
As a group, we are all often lonely as well as insecure. However, we all do not take the opportunity to hurt other people to build ourselves up. Driscoll is a good speaker when he is not building up his ego. Unfortunately, he uses his gifts to tear others down. I wonder how many people ever get a “10” on his Spectrum of Trust. I bet few, if any, make it. I believe that Driscoll’s soul has been damaged in the process.
It is too bad that Driscoll has never had any training to be a pastor. He has done all of this on the fly. Unfortunately, he needs to make fun of others when he could be more like Jesus and see beyond the parody. However, his inability to let go of the inner insecure and lonely man has hindered him. He will end up with a church filled with other insecure people who laugh at his jokes and will pay him money. He is their stand-up comedian who is so shallow that he can’t see beyond a cat joke.
Driscoll continues to be a mean, third-grade bully because there isn’t anything more inside. He is to be pitied that he has wasted his life on hurting so many people.
“It is too bad that Driscoll has never had any training to be a pastor.”
nor gifting … nor calling … nor anointing
Driscoll never has been a “pastor” in the classical, Biblical understanding of that office. His macho-man personna attracted early followers of the New Calvinist movement who found the potty-mouth preacher from Seattle so non-pastoral that they just had to see more. The more sophisticated NeoCal leaders (e.g., John Piper) put up with him because he was good for the movement … until he became a potato too hot to handle.
Only in America …
Max,
I think pastors need training for sure but churches tend to just look at communication “gifts” and miss the biblical requirement to love the flock the way that Jesus does. It is definitely a calling where preaching is just one component of the role. To be honest I missed some of that too when I became fixated on some of the big name teachers. Even if Driscoll was not guilty of some of the abuse we heard about, his function was not what the Bible would call a pastor. Based on Dee’s post he has not changed much.
“I bet Mark Driscoll is lonely, but he has to preen and strut like he isn’t.”I’m not lonely. That woman over there is lonely, and she probably has 7 cats. Stop looking at me.””
+++++++++++++++++
projection…
I’ve heard him go on berating men for a hypothetical activity so personal no one would ever talk about it (least of all, men).
the only way he could be acquainted enough with the activity to be able to describe it is if he himself did it.
it was so very transparent.
that he is unaware of what he betrays regarding himself is quite a weakness.
Driscoll hates women. He just does. He has a spectrum concerning women, with his smoking hot wife and genius daughter on one end the evil feminists on the other end. And as you mention, if women don’t fit into the tiny box he wants them to fit in, they will be on the low end of his spectrum and targets for his foolish rantings.
He believes that women are more susceptible to demonic attack and has compared demonic possession symptoms to menopause (an experience he presumes to understand)
https://wenatcheethehatchet.blogspot.com/2023/05/mark-driscolls-jokes-on-parallels.html
He presumes much. And people keep paying to hear him.
He thinks women are lesser and more evil beings.
And he fancies himself as being like Elijah when he really he is so controlling that he has more in common with Jezebel.
https://wenatcheethehatchet.blogspot.com/2023/10/for-mark-driscoll-in-2023-being-elijah.html
As I’ve said before, all it takes to be successful in ministry in America is a touch of charisma, a gift of gab, and a bag of gimmicks. Churches which key in on leaders who have communication skills seldom end up with a “pastor” in the true sense of the word.
“Love the flock”?! … I’ve never heard anyone accuse the New Calvinists of being a loving bunch. Arrogant is the first word that pops to mind to describe them.
“Hurry, hurry, hurry, step right up to the greatest show on earth!”
Actors would have no stage if they didn’t have an audience willing to buy tickets to their performance. Bad-boy pulpits exist because a gullible pew pays to keep them there.
“Aw, but ain’t that America for you and me
Ain’t that America somethin’ to see, baby
Ain’t that America home of the free, yeah
Little pink houses for you and me
Oh yeah, for you and me…”
— John Couger Mellencamp 1983 —
Belief actually in Christ and Holy Spirit is now so isolating because religious organisation bosses now monopolise all their adherents’ relating, deny that words HAVE meanings, and deprive me of my God, and their families and neighbours of any chance of providence.
Driscoll is proof positive of Jesus’ warning that there will be wolves who disguise themselves as sheep. IMHO.
So a simple criminal like Barabbas that the mob votes to keep in power as they also vote to execute Jesus? The manly man cult figure preferred over Jesus the Son of God?
The man-of-the-hour’s mob that builds a golden calf to worship as they abandon the God who rescues and saves?
A man-of-the-hour and his mob … codependent and in collaboration against God. Not the first time in history that this has happened.
Beware. Stay clear. With America’s opportunities under the Freedom of Religion, this happens, sometimes frequently.
Tom Rubino,
I wonder about those who follow him. I wonder if they are wolves as well.
In many corners of the American church, the pewsitters shout “Give us Barabbas!” … they identify with him more than Jesus. They have forfeited the presence, authority, and influence of Jesus to follow unChristlike pulpit celebrities. God has given them what they want and sent leanness to their souls.
Christianity Lite is comprised of wolves in shepherd’s clothing and sheep disguised as sheep.
The simple reason this new and not improved Calvinism sells is that it tells the sinner they are chosen by God, guaranteed heaven, and therefore there is no need for them to be obedient to Christ. They have a system that says they can be as evil as they choose to be and still are good to go.
This fits so well with toxic narcissism. Again, they see themselves as center of the universe and all others as lesser beings made to serve them, then exit the stage.
NOT. Without holiness no one will see the Lord. Any system, and this is not the only one, that tells you grace is grace because it allows you to continue in willful sin with no repercussions is a false gospel. Yes, salvation is by grace through faith, but the real deal changes us. It doesn’t pour perfume in cesspool we swim in, it provides us a ladder and a boost out.
Not “sheep disguised as sheep”;
FRESH MUTTON disguised as sheep.
My writing partner and I (both male) have been going through female menopause symptoms for years; it’s a side effect of the prostate meds.
I’d like to see Deep Throat Driscoll on the same meds for prostate problems. As hypermasculine as Adolf Hitler and Andrew Tate combined, how do you think he’d react to the side effects?
(I say FREAKOUT.)
Headless Unicorn Guy,
P.S. Like all those Spiritual Warfare Holy Hotshot Demon-FIghters, Driscoll has obviously never encountered a DEMON for real.
I have (“The Fullerton Freakout”, 1980) — someTHING Nnn-Physical, HOSTILE, and nothing like all those Spiritual Warfare Testimonies. The most spectacular of the two Paranormal experiences in my life, the other being a simple ghost sighting. (That’s TWO experiences in 40+ years, NOT the every 30 seconds of the Spiritual Warfare Experts.)
Nah, they’re just everyday folk who’ve found a travelin’ medicine show (metaphor) they can go to and have a good time, just like in the olden days.
I think a few are. But many are just sheep who think they’ve found a good shepherd, and not a hireling.
It occurred to me that since my mother passed away on Monday, the reason I was not protesting in front of Driscoll’s house of horrors is no longer there. But I don’t know that I want to protest when I am pretty sure they have guns on the property.
I also wonder how much his attack on single women is based on me. The only thing that’s true is that at the time I was regularly picketing Driscoll’s cult, I was in my 50s, single and had a cat. Now I have two cats, I’m in my early 60s, and I’m still single. The rest of it is garbage. Dear Mark, I don’t pay attention to anything you say, because as far as I’m concerned, you’re a snake. And whole some snakes are beneficial, there are rattlesnakes to be avoided. You’re a rattlesnake.
Headless Unicorn Guy,
I have wondered the same thing……
He and his family have a security team to keep people away from them? Jesus’ “security team” (aka disciples) tried that with a group of children. Didn’t go over well. But then again, maybe reading the Bible isn’t for Driscoll.
There is a verse in John 5 that talks about this.
John 5:44 How can you believe, when you receive glory from one another and do not seek the glory that comes from the only God?
The upshot of that question is, You cannot believe, if you receive glory from one another.
Receiving glory from one another can be in the form of approval, praise, applause, admiration, being noticed, exalted. And that is exactly what his church is all about. It is a basic human sin, to want to be noticed, approved, praised, applauded. But if that is what a group of people do for each other, Jesus, the One who speaks with perfect authority, says, you cannot be a genuine believer if that is what your life is about.
My conclusion is that Mark Driscoll is not a believer. He is deceived and a deceiver.
Smart thinking there Muslin.
Some of those folks are as crazy as outhouse rats, and gun-happy too.
Best to not engage them.
Take all that away and there would be no celebrity pulpits in America … no Christian personality cults … no mega-maniacs … no church as entertainment … no big screens, fog machines and skinny jeans … no standing ovations when church leaders are “restored” after failing and then fail again.
You will know them by their fruit.
I’m a Calvinist and this is certainly not what I believe.
Neil Cameron,
I have no reason to doubt what you say.
but it is the observation of many that the meanest, rudest, and most arrogant people (and I’m being polite) are (some) men who self-describe as reformed.
deductive reasoning kicks in from there.
That certainly fits the reformed community in my area. It is particularly apparent in New Calvinist churches. “The meanest, rudest, and most arrogant people” certainly doesn’t describe the Body of Christ in Scripture. Why do the new reformers act this way?
Max,
it’s like the worst & most extreme caricature of christianity.
I find that an elite mindset is baked in to christian culture. however, my fellows will vehemently protest that, but then i count the minutes until they go on about ‘the world’. the evil, worldly, world. full of scary goblins.
i have news for them – those goblins are my friends and family who are atheist, agnostic, muslim and hindu, and all of them outshine christians in integrity and character, kindness and generosity of heart.
(but i’ve said this many times. i’ll never get over it. it’s staggering to behold.)
Max,
“Why do the new reformers act this way?”
+++++++++++++++
well, really, i think they are arrested development on legs.
stuck at, oh, say, 11 years old.
and then the christian manhood industry sells them its propaganda and the perpetual insecure 11 year-olds embrace the message that they were baptized into alpha-male, and that it is godly to be the entitled, arrogant, big-man-on-campus (at last!) who reserves the right to bully whoever when they’re feeling especially needy. Their dreams have come true.
i’m so disappointed in my silly religion… don’t see why i should hold back.
They all find each other.
elastigirl,
The religious elite leaders of Jesus’ day were His executioners.
A leopard doesn’t change his spots.
dee,
I don’t know, Dee. But after seeing the successful re-platforming of so many disgraced and disqualified church leaders and the evangelical response to certain politicians, Jesus’ words in Matthew 24:24 have become much more interesting to me:
“For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.”
As I continue to observe the trajectory of the American church, I find myself wondering if the gate is a lot narrower than I’ve thought in the past.
I am humbled by and enormously grateful for the times the Lord has pulled me out of bad church/cult-like situations by giving me eyes to see and the courage to leave.
Indeed. Very little in the American church resembles the pattern set for it in Scripture … very little has anything to do with the Great Commission … very little looks like Jesus. Doing church without God is the theme of the day. “The gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it” … and you sure the heck ain’t going to find it in much of the American church.
Yes. They all find each other because they look for each other. There’s a segment of the American church which seeks preachers like Driscoll, who looks and acts no differently than they do. He makes them feel better about their rotten selves, lost and undone without God or His Son. UnChristlike pews can always find UnChristlike pulpits – they ain’t that hard to locate in America.
The problem with deception is that you (generic you) don’t know you are deceived because you are deceived … and that goes for both pulpit and pew.
The American church, in its current condition, ain’t scaring the devil much. Satan doesn’t shake in his boots when the average church member gets up each morning. As I’ve said before, there’s not enough spiritual power in the American church to blow the dust off a peanut, let alone confront the enemy … in my humble, but accurate, opinion.
Neil Cameron,
Neil–it may not be what you believe, but there is no way to get around unconditional election meaning a person is going to be saved if and only if they were preselected. And the preselected will be saved and will not fall.
Yes, old time Calvinism did indeed expect fruit meet for repentance. That meant if your life did not show fruit you should be very worried that you might not be elect. They old Protestant work ethic.
This new and not improved mess calling itself Calvinist or Reformed today does not teach that. They simply thank God they are chosen, and continue on in sin.
By your testimony you seem to be saying you stand with the old Calvinists, not the new.
And I encourage you to give serious thought to Arminianism.
Keep this in mind:
Mark has a degree in speech communication from my alma mater, Washington State University, from the Edward R. Murrow (famed alumnus) School of Communication.
His wife Grace has a degree in public relations from the same school/college.
Knowing their educational background helps one to understand why they are so good at crafting and controlling their public image. But thank the Lord for blogs like this one to shine the truth, for those wanting to know it. I had friends that attended Mars Hill Church in the Seattle area, and one of my best friends attended a different church with Mark before he started Mars Hill, so I have been watching him for a long time now.
And remember, it’s all about Jesus! Hmmm, maybe Mark’s middle name is Jesus . . .
https://www.cbeinternational.org/person/mark-driscoll/
https://thetrinitychurch.com/founders/
There is no doubt that Driscoll has a gift of gab. He has been successful in combining that with a macho-Jesus persona and thin veneer of Christianity to be “successful” in ministry. Only in America would so many folks fall for a potty-mouth preacher from Seattle.
I’ve not read any of the comments yet, although I did a quick skim of them….
Dee,
Two of the links in your post are broken….
I found one of the links, and for the other my search turned up a number of possibilities, so I just picked one of them.
The first broken link is on your phrase: “simply for being Jewish”
This is the broken link I found a number of possibilities for….I chose the NBC News article Cornell University says suspect who made antisemitic threats is in police custody.
The link is:
https://web.archive.org/web/20231031192855/https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/cornell-university-says-suspect-made-antisemitic-threats-police-custod-rcna123020
The second broken link is on your phrase: “Threats against Palestinian, Muslim and Jewish people has spiked since the war began”
The the link I found that appeared to match yours is NPR’s news item and transcript Threats against Palestinian, Muslim and Jewish people has spiked since the war began.
The link is:
https://web.archive.org/web/20231031025443/https://www.npr.org/2023/10/30/1209529125/threats-against-palestinian-muslim-and-jewish-people-has-spiked-since-the-war-be
Wait a minute, I turn 49 in a week, I have cats and I have chosen to remain single for the last 17 years to raise my son. I married once and that’s it. So because I have a cat and I’m single close to 50 by my own choice he says there’s something wrong with that? What a hack! LOL hysterical coming from this pervert. Has anyone heard any of the old videos of him and his wife discussing porn and sex? I’m his mama is an absolute fool and I hope the woman offended see’s this and dismisses anything he says. The man is the king of his own universe and a cult leader.
Max,
To echo Foucault and Briggs * (combined), Mr D. ought to enter into permanent fasting from self-proclamation.
{ * who stood up against IHOP the other day }
Tom Rubino,
To witness = to see what God sees. To bear witness = to tell it like it is (in the last resort, to oneself), no matter how tragically credulity-defying.
researcher,
My mum never mentioned the uncle we didn’t know we had, whom (we have figured out) she may have last seen when she was 16 and he was 12. She told us her dad had passed away 17 years earlier than he did, as many families were doing, because they didn’t know where was going to be invaded and it would delay tracing by a few months. Three of my grandparents (on my English sides) effectively changed religion twice.
I think Palestinians ought to be freed from who has held them as human shields for 19 years: I don’t know how – prayer maybe! Whatever the many wrongs of all kinds we mustn’t forget that the rise of dispensationism since Joachim of Fiore, increasing in the 17 th century and especially since the 1820s, hasn’t exactly avded fuelling the position. Then as J H Newman pointed out, why would England not be more neutral towards Russia in the 1850s which would have assisted the Romanov and Ottoman regimes to transform into just societies. Was Queen Vic afraid the Ruskies would nick all her tea? And what was the American position on others’ positions on Crimea then?
Please don’t forget to pray for the very small number of people now arising from the semi-vacuous remains of burnt-over country wishing to explore how to dedicate their lives to the real gospel – “longhairs” as Dean Briggs calls them after Nazirite values (he stood up to IHOP the other day).
In the 1940s this had been the (real) call, but was defused by mass defection to influencing methods. After 40 years this was still the real call but was defused by the ultimate political fix – body theology. It’s now been another 38 and a half years (like the wandering in the wilderness).
Is not the whole of the Gospel summed up in one verse in James: we who can help the world’s fate should pray to God for wisdom (for us and those around us in all waLks).
And why have we wandered off course in the church for so long? Pursuing celebrities? Dabbling in aberrant theology? Enjoying church as entertainment?
“You must remember that the Lord your God led you all the way these forty years in the wilderness, to humble you, and to prove you, to know what was in your heart, whether you would keep His commandments or not.” (Deuteronomy 8:2)
We’ve had too much in our hearts in the American church that is not Jesus. It’s high time to stop wandering in the wilderness and get back to the Main Thing! Unfortunately, I don’t see much movement in that direction yet … the masses remain firmly entrenched in doing church without God … how many more years will we wander? But I suppose it has always been the few that get it and move out of the wilderness into the promised land … from a vast sea of counterfeit to experience the genuine. Praise God for the few who stand for Jesus, who stand for Truth, who make a difference for the Kingdom.
Tom Rubino,
some ‘Christians’ seem to NEED their ‘wolves’ who act in ways that the so-called ‘Christians’ are too timid to act just yet but strive to imitate . . . ways hateful and filled with contempt and misogyny . . .
nothing in them that remotely resembles Our Lord Himself –
no wonder they thrive on their new idol ‘ the anointed one’ with his golden statue
how strange that they do this so openly
and how horrible to see
Max,
“We’ve had too much in our hearts in the American church that is not Jesus….
Praise God for the few who stand for Jesus”
+++++++++++++++++
growing up Christian, and now at this point having been a part of multiple diverse denominations or non-denominations, i can confidently say that Jesus factored in very little.
it was mostly Paul, and the stories that are easy to tell from the Old Testament.
i think it comes down to convenience – in presentation and the receiving of it.
–for the purpose of keeping people
–for the purpose of being a viable organization
–that creates jobs
–that brings in donation revenue
–and book-selling revenue
–that pays salaries & as many perks as possible
and for the purpose of political power to make the world the way the powerbrokers want it to be:
holding on to money (tax dollars)
and power (keep the little guy in his/her place).
.
.
Seems to me Jesus is about absolutely none of these things.
Paul was OK, but he’d be the first to say “I’m not Jesus!” Preaching Paul without preaching Jesus ain’t the Gospel! If you read Paul first (his epistles), you might get Jesus wrong … but if you read Jesus first (the Gospels), the writings of Paul come into perspective.
Max,
totally agree.
the fact of the matter is Jesus is inconvenient to Christianity.
it’s the darnedest thing.
Well, Jesus certainly has little to no authority and influence in the Christian Industrial Complex, that’s for sure!
1 – Specially voided of all meaning for the occasion;
2 – Dominionism just as the devil promised.
Linda, Arminius was a “Calvin” * -ist who explained it better. Even then the Beza and Gomarus party whom the Stadholder supported for economic reasons, refused to have it explained better.
While Arminus died of consumption he had seen that the Stadtholder was gearing up to repeat the massacre of Spain, which had been against all his (Arminius’) parents and siblings while he was away aged 14 or 15. He could do no else than stand up for the apparently already accepted religion, and there he stood.
The theological attitudes of Heidelberg and Dordt are identical to Rome’s once you see past the frippery. The purpose of Heidelberg and Dordt was to make religious leaders paint their congregations into a corner, hence the reductionism that sees less than a minimum as more than a maximum, having no logical thread. John Knox was not subservient to Calvin, nor to the latter’s English adherents.
Neil, you are a believer and prayerful and Holy Spirit filled with faith for living. That is more than “calvin” insofar as “calvin” even presents part of part of it right. Some actual believers I knew even called themselves Romans, before now (before the city state got rigid).
{ * a foreign politician in Switzerland }
I’ve quipped before, why don’t they just get it over with and call it Paulianity?
Michael–not exactly. Briefly, Calivists hold to the Tulip. Total Depravity, which Arminians hold also. Unconditional election, which Arminians reject. Limited atonement, which Arminians reject. Irresistible grace, which Arminians reject. Perseverance of the saints, which Arminians reject.
So no, they are not Calvinists. People get confused because they fall broadly into the Reformed tradition in some scholars eyes. That meaning many Arminians hold to the five solas: only by grace, only by faith, only through Christ, only the scriptures, and only God gets the glory. Calvinists, Arminians, Wesleyan Armininians, and Lutherans do define some of those 5 in very different ways.
But no, an Arminian is not a Calvinist nor is he a Lutheran. Nor is a Lutheran a Calvinist or vice versa. All are broadly Reformed. All Calvinists are Reformed, but not all Reformed are Calvinists.
RULE BY VICE.
Where the behavior of those in Power give blessing from On High to do the same.
GOLD-ANODIZED FIBERGLASS STATUE.
That’s got to be near the bottom of the barrel when it comes to Graven Images.
Though Telltale Atheist once did a reaction video on footage form some Christian leader who prayed over (or to) a carboard-cutout standee of the same Anointed One(TM).
Now THAT’s the bottom of the barrel.
Well, it would make him Mark J Driscoll — just like Bullwinkle J Moose, Rocket J Squirrel, Homer J Simpson, and Bartholomew J Simpson…
Same here.
I trust in his actual, literal, bodily person, and in nothing else.
Muff Potter,
St Paul was a blasphemer, according to most authorities, throughout his life. Do some church bosses not only think him a blasphemer, but maintain that is a good quality to be emulated?
linda,
1 – I’m not aware that “calvin” was an item in Arminius’ vocabulary except as an individual personality (a foreign politician in Switzerland). Arminius wasn’t a politician. He didn’t start “arminism” and especially not the many bad kinds. He was nervous of Maurice and those craven to him.
2 – Truth needs presenting by truthful expression. If we had our nomenclature and were living then, we would call Arminius calvinist if we were calling a spade a spade. Explaining reality is good reason, but misexplaining misexplanations isn’t. Was Calvin even there at Heidelberg?
I seem to think David Pawson, R T Kendall (when he has his ducks in a row), Spurgeon, Jessie Penn-Lewis, Lloyd-Jones, would have the brain power to agree with Calvin as non-politician and not feel obliged by figures of speech that happened to have been picked. I often hear people I regard as trustworthy for separate reasons, cite Calvin (amongst others) favourably.
3 – “Arminian” is a movable ragbag for manipulative sects and cults, the same as how the YRR think “calvinist” is.
4 – “Arminian” (sometimes spelled “Armenian” to make it sound more raffish) is a swear word.
5 – The tulip was invented in the 20 th century.
6 – It’s become fashionable, since the marketers of “Fundamentals”, to misconstrue minimums (or less) as maximums (or more).
7 – In their context and for their purpose:
a . Election is on the terms explained by God. Another word for terms is conditions. An example: “without price” (Is 55).
b . Thus the benefit of atonement is limited to those who accept it, but not limited in an arbitrary intention of God.
c . Grace is irrestistible when not resisted. Tautologies are spiral staircase arguments, not circular. Note: the people prone to resist it are likely to be religion leaders because of the temptations of position (and because they teach us to be complacent we forget to pray for them not to fall for it). And only God will know, on the last day, whether they had really resisted it decisively or not. Are some religion leaders trying to argue that’s not good enough to be getting on with?
d . Now let’s just suppose perseverance is to be judged / weighed up / discerned by God, by His matching fruits with their source. For example, Holy Spirit sent at Ascension providentially un-depraves believers (full circle) (but try telling the YRR in all denominations – including Roman – that). Jn 3:16 who continually believes … shall continue in the life that will be eternal.
8 – My childhood belief / faith which was on the fringes of a lot of denominations and was also pushed by agnostics of goodwill, contained a lot of trust in Holy Spirit sent at Ascension (by comparison with 2023) and of course, oodles of Blessed Assurance. This was because the public hadn’t yet been taught not to infer, and hadn’t yet been taught to excise most of the Bible.
Spiral staircase arguments are ones that remind you of meanings (which demands inferring), instead of cancelling all terms and leaving you with less than zero (which permits the abolition of inferring). This is how believers used to infer Blessed Assurance.