In the constellation Aquila, located about 7,200 light-years from Earth, you’ll find this massive star formation with a protostellar jet streaming toward us. NASA/Hubble
“I am a firm believer that transparency goes hand in hand with collective intelligence.” Rana el Kaliouby.
I bet few Amicus briefs have caused such an uproar. I have read enough over the last few days to agree that the SBC leadership is terribly concerned about protecting the “institution,” which they claim hardly exists (“We are just a collection of autonomous churches,” right?) This is a game that has gone on long enough, but my guess is the faithful will keep throwing their money into the coffers to be spent by the boys on all kinds of things about which the leadership will never speak.
Start at the beginning. What happened?
Christianity Today posted Abuse Survivors ‘Disgusted’ by Southern Baptist Court Brief. Carefully read the last sentence.
Earlier this week, the Louisville Courier Journal reported that lawyers for the Executive Committee, Southern Baptist Theological Seminary—the denomination’s flagship seminary in Louisville—and Lifeway had filed the amicus brief earlier this year in a case brought by abuse survivor Samantha Killary.
Killary was abused for years by her adoptive father, a Louisville police officer, the Courier Journalreported. She has sued two police officers who allegedly knew about the abuse and did nothing to prevent or report it, as well as Louisville’s city government, which employed them. Her suit was initially dismissed but was later reinstated after Kentucky legislators passed legislation that changed the statute of limitations for filing abuse claims.
That legislation also allowed survivors to sue third parties, “such as police, government units or religious organizations that violated their duties to children,” according to the Courier Journal. Kentucky’s Supreme Court is now trying to decide whether third parties can be sued in cases of past abuse under the new law, known as KRS § 413 249.
Now, who do you think might be concerned about third parties getting sued? In other words, not only the perp but some institutions? You got it-The SBC.
Why is the SBC leadership so concerned about a Kentucky law? Self-interest, perhaps?
The Roys Report posted Chaos Erupts Over SBC Legal Filing in Louisville Abuse Lawsuit, which gives us an idea of the answer to the above question.
A number of states, including New York and Maryland, have lifted or amended states of limitations for filing civil lawsuits in cases of abuse. That has led some Catholic dioceses to declare bankruptcy in the face of abuse lawsuits.
The brief filed by lawyers for the Executive Committee, Southern seminary and Lifeway argues that the Kentucky law should not apply retroactively to third parties. While those entities have no ties to the Killary case, they are being sued in a different case of abuse.
Further information is found in The duplicity of an SBC amicus brief written by Christa Brown, Dave Clohessy, and Dave Pittman for Baptist News Global.
The reason the SBC filed this hostile-to-survivors amicus brief (once again, in a case in which they aren’t even a party) is because of another pending case — the lawsuit of Hannah Kate Williams against the SBC — and the possibility of more future cases. They referenced Hannah Kate’s lawsuit in their brief, stating they are “non-perpetrator third parties who were allegedly made aware of the abuse and violated common law duties in responding to it.”
Read that line again: “non-perpetrator third parties who were allegedly made aware of the abuse and violated common law duties in responding to it.”
Think about what this means. The SBC is so determined to protect itself against liability that it’s willing to throw all child sex abuse survivors under the bus, even those with cases against otherinstitutions. It’s willing to stand on the mere passage of time as a tactic to evade institutional responsibility, without regard for the merits or specifics of the case.
Protecting their butts…Lawyers will lawyer and will do whatever their payee wants them to do. Therefore, I blame the ones involved in this mess: Al Mohler and SBTS, Lifeway, and the officers of the Executive Committee, who claim they knew nothing, saw nothing, etc.
Needless to say, everyone except the lawyers is upset
- Here is SBC Sexual Abuse Survivors Joint Statement 2023, found at SBC Voices. This was written by Megan Lively, Jules Woodson, and Tiffany Thigpen.
As survivors who have chosen to continue in a role actively engaged with members of the EC, ARITF, and others within the SBC, with the goal of reform, we are sickened and saddened to be burned yet again by the actions of the SBC against survivors. We are releasing this joint statement to stand against the continued measures of destruction chosen by those in leadership to actively detonate any and all measures of justice that are rightfully ours as victims of abuse.
We understand from our own inquiry that not all parties within the SBC, EC or the 47,000 or so churches it represents, are aware of this drastic stance that certain members of SBC and the SBC legal team took back in April on behalf of the Executive Committee, Lifeway and SBTS. This joint statement is to alert all to the dastardly deeds of these and to the red flag of the monies being spent on legal fees to take such action as this Amicus Brief and the Oral arguments now being heard. To absolutely stab survivors in the back. There are no mincing of words here. No holding back. This is disgusting.
- The Baptist Press posted EC officers, ARITF release statements on Kentucky amicus brief.
The EC officers portion wants to put this into context and clarification. I always worry when I hear these terms. It means, “We gonna ‘splain this to you in the hopes of getting you to shut up.” They claim they really care about the sex abuse in the SBC and still love all the victims, but this is a discrete issue which means you dolts might not be able to understand it. Here is the full response.
The amicus brief concerned “a discrete legal issue” that directly impacts the Executive Committee and the SBC’s “legal and fiduciary interests,” EC officers said.
At issue are amendments made to Kentucky law by the state legislature in 2021 and whether lawmakers’ intention was to apply a retroactive extension of the statute of limitations for sexual abuse claims to non-offender third parties, including organizations.
- Some EC members claim they knew nothing about this in SBC Executive Committee members surprised to learn they filed an amicus brief against a sexual abuse survivor in Kentucky. So, just who is running this show?
Mississippi Baptist pastor Adam Wyatt, a member of the Executive Committee, tweeted: “We had no working knowledge of this as a board. Poor excuse, I know. But it’s true.”
In a separate tweet he said: “I continue to grow very tired of seeing people speak on my behalf without ever being consulted. Today was the first time that I ever heard of an amicus brief being filed on behalf of the @SBCExecComm.”
From Christa Brown
This @SBCExecComm statement is a carefully calibrated mix of bullsh*t, horseshi*t & chickensh*t. It is craven, cowardly & despicable.I will NEVER allow my voice or personhood to lend even an ounce of legitimacy to their grotesquely illegitimate “reform efforts.” #ThisistheSBC pic.twitter.com/6YXMxWgVNV
- Finally, the Abuse Implementation Task Force had this to say: A Statement from the ARITF. They ain’t happy.
The Abuse Reform Implementation Task Force (ARITF) underscores our unwavering commitment to supporting survivors of sexual abuse in pursuit of healing and justice. Along with many others, we are now aware of concerns about the legal actions of various entities connected to the Southern Baptist Convention. We also understand the deep impact that these actions have had on the survivor community. As a task force with a limited mission, we had no knowledge or involvement in the legal issues surrounding various entities nor gave input in these matters.
The EC Officers are trying to figure out how to make this go away, but read the statement. It appears nothing will change since we Baptist types always disagree.
Once again, from Baptist Press:
A Zoom call with trustees and legal counsel will take place Nov. 16 at 2 p.m. Central, he said.
“The Executive Committee remains committed to engaging with survivors and working toward eradicating sexual abuse from Southern Baptist churches, institutions, and entities, and we remain committed to bringing about meaningful abuse reform across the SBC,” Robertson said.
Today’s statement reiterated that goal in addition to responsibilities to the Executive Committee.
“The SBC Executive Committee must continue to defend itself, and its interests, within the judicial system as appropriate. These goals (eradicating sexual abuse and legally defending itself) are not mutually exclusive,” it read.
Disagreements are bound to happen among Southern Baptists, it added, but “tension and disagreement on one matter are not reasons to abandon the broader effort to eradicate sexual abuse from all Southern Baptist churches.”
Al Mohler and Lifeway ain’t talking.
SBTS was behind this thing. Kentucky Today posted SBC entities take fire over Kentucky amicus brief. Al Mohler wants you to talk to the lawyers cause he ain’t talking.
Southern Seminary President Albert Mohler issued the following:
“As is often the case in questions of law, significant constitutional and legal questions arise and require arguments to be made before the courts,” he said. “In such cases we must refer all questions to legal counsel. We respect the rule of law and must work through the process with legal representation, who must speak for us in this case.”
The report said Lifeway didn’t respond.
The SBC President weighed in today: He signed off on it, but he didn’t read it carefully. 🙂
Baptist News Global posted SBC president apologizes for signing off on amicus brief.
- “I should have read it more carefully.”
I did not give this decision to file this brief the level of consideration that it deserved,” Bart Barber said i
- “Maybe I wasn’t allowed to sign it after all.”
he now questions whether he had the right to sign off on such an important matter because ad interim authority — between the two-day annual meetings of the SBC — is delegated to the Executive Committee, not the convention president.
- “I won’t do it again,”
“Our future decisions likewise lie with the SBC Executive Committee. I hope to do a better job of using my voice to influence those decisions going forward.”
- “They only gave me three hours to review it.”
he received an email from the SBC’s legal team telling him about the brief and “recommending that we join it.” He was given a little more than three hours to decide, while also engaged in the orientation meetings.
“The whole thing was an email conversation, and a brief one at that. I became aware that the SBC Executive Committee was joining the brief. I approved our joining the brief. I hadn’t heard anything about it or thought anything about it since then until last Wednesday.”
Barber said he understands many people are upset with him, including many friends. He added: “I don’t have words to express how I feel about that.”
We are reminded that the DOJ is investigating the SBC.
He was in Nashville for an orientation of the new members of the SBC Executive Committee. He also had called the Great Commission Council — the heads of all SBC entities — together “to reveal to them something they did not yet know — that the Department of Justice had opened an investigation of the Southern Baptist Convention and that we were determined to cooperate fully.”
That investigation reportedly is about mishandling of sexual abuse claims, although the Justice Department has declined to specify the scope or acknowledge if the investigation is happening.
Is silence golden?
Finally, the SBC leadership crowd should have said something before joining this fight. The SBC seems to wait until they are forced to speak. Look at the NAMB. Try to get any information from this group, which appears to be a depository for tired-out pastors who like to make lots of money.
I am suspicious that the SBC leaders knew exactly what would happen when this came out. Little can be done at this juncture, so they do not plan to discuss it. Al Mohler sure isn’t, and he played the “I care about sex abuse victims” card so well. Marc Wingfield at Baptist News Global wrote Why is Lifeway silent on sexual abuse amicus brief?
Here’s a sure way to know Southern Baptist institutions and some Baptist universities don’t think they’re accountable to anyone outside their inner circle: The perpetual refusal to comment on, or even acknowledge, questions from media.
…Now, it appears Lifeway Christian Resources has joined the “no comment” crowd. Despite a week of intense controversy over an amicus brief filed against a sexual abuse survivor in Kentucky, allegedly orchestrated by Lifeway and its attorneys, there has been no explanation given, no comment offered, no public statement.
…“No comment” is one of the worst public relations strategies ever invented. People who actually work in media relations will testify to this. One of the oldest truths of public relations and of crisis communications is this: You are always better off telling your own story first rather than allowing someone else to frame it for you.
When you sit silently and let critics frame the case against you, you’re always one step behind and you’re always reacting rather than acting. Even if you think you’re winning.
“… the faithful will keep throwing their money into the coffers to be spent by the boys on all kinds of things …”
If SBC’s faithful pewsitters (millions are non-Calvinist) so willingly threw away their tithes and offerings for the last 20 years to finance the New Calvinist takeover of their denomination, they’ll support anything! They simply don’t have a clue what goes on at the national SBC level. While they rest comfortably in their autonomy, thousands of SBC churches are experiencing a shift in belief and practice without realizing it. They lost their identity as soul-winning, evangelistic, mission-minded Southern Baptists while they dined on potluck meals with fun and fellowship. The giant is asleep. Rome is burning. The Gospel is falling in the street.
Would it be possible for the Kentucky legislature to clarify its intentions with its own brief, or by amending the law?
The layers of committees and men in charge and theobros is mind boggling. Kudos to you, Dee, for being able to wade through all of this. But she needs to say it louder for those in the back: Al Mohler cares about no one but himself from all I read about him! This is their “leadership.”
“I should have read it more carefully.”
Oh goodness, what an idiot.
The wizard behind the curtain on all things SBC these days.
On X/Twitter Hannah-Kate states that the SBC has petitioned the court to have her involuntarily committed, which she believes is a move so that she can’t testify in legal proceedings in her lawsuit against them. She tweeted today that she “got an almost $3,000 bill for crisis intervention from the Southern Baptist Convention petition to have me committed so that I couldn’t testify in a case against them.”
Poor old Bart Barber. The excuses he is making should be a fire able offense. He is just one of the SBC good old boys, playing a role as the SBC President.
The level of evil by the SBC leaders is off of the charts.
Emily honey, I don’t understand that. Does she mean they invoiced her for doing crisis intervention?! If so, just when I think they can’t sink any lower they rise to that challenge.
Sadly the SBC leaders do not have a bottom IMO.
Ah, the cost of such immoral unethical choices by elite religious “leadership”:
“It’s wrong, very wrong, to go along with injustice. Whoever whitewashes the wicked gets a black mark in the history books, but whoever exposes the wicked will be thanked and rewarded.” Prov 24.23-5
We all know what narcissists do when they are exposed, they lash out. However, better to face off with a cowardly navel-gazing egomaniacal manipulative narcissist than Almighty God, Creator of all that is.
Choices: choosing one’s friends and enemies.
What the theo-boyz care about, their focus: their position, their power, their profits, their pleasures. Anything else is superfluous… oh, bother.
How low can you go?
They play the game of limbo trying to see which one of them (individually or organizationally) can get closest to the gutter without getting any on them.
News flash, they are covered in excrement.
I posted a comment about this on SBCVoices. Guess what? My comment got deleted. I don’t remember exactly what I said, but it went something like this:
When men who just can’t keep their pants zipped abuse women and children, they clearly need someone to protect them and cover for them. In turn the SBC entities whose leaders and/or employees covered up for and protected abusers for decades now need lawyers to protect their reputations/influence, and all of the money in their coffers in particular.
https://baptistnews.com/article/as-southern-seminary-honors-al-mohlers-30th-anniversary-as-president-o-s-hawkins-compares-mohler-to-moses-king-david-paul-and-jesus/
‘ The point of the sermon was to detail three traits of Al Mohler that others should emulate, just as Mohler has been found “imitating Christ,” Hawkins said.’
Hey, Mr. Hawkins (and Jesusy Al)…… I must have missed something. Where did Jesus oh-so eloquently say (or instruct anyone to say), “No comment! Call my lawyer.” ???
Any voices contrary to SBCVoices will eventually suffer that fate. I stopped posting comments there years ago when the New Calvinists ganged up on my wit and wisdom. They had no interest in my SBC voice nor decades-long perspective as a Southern Baptist … I was a thorn in the early NeoCal movement to takeover the SBC. They’ve cleaned up their act in recent years to appear more female-friendly and abuse-hating, but I still don’t trust them.
I doubt that Jesus has noticed that resemblance.
Hawkins is obviously a Mohlerite idol worshiper. There’s a bunch of them in SBC right now.
JJallday,
I needed to wade through all the statements, etc., for it to make sense to me. There are lots of SBC apologists online trying to say, “Nothing to see here; move along.”
“Baptist News Global posted SBC president apologizes for signing off on amicus brief.”
Barber, like so many current SBC leaders, have been caught up in theo-politics of the day and brand protection at all cost. When they step away from the Great Commission into matters such as this, they can easily get confused and do the wrong thing. The whole of the SBC has a recent history of doing wrong things.
Dee wrote: “Some EC members claim they knew nothing about this in SBC Executive Committee members surprised to learn they filed an amicus brief against a sexual abuse survivor in Kentucky. So, just who is running this show?
Mississippi Baptist pastor Adam Wyatt, a member of the Executive Committee, tweeted: “We had no working knowledge of this as a board. Poor excuse, I know. But it’s true.”
In a separate tweet he said: “I continue to grow very tired of seeing people speak on my behalf without ever being consulted. Today was the first time that I ever heard of an amicus brief being filed on behalf of the @SBCExecComm.””
I tend to believe members of the EC who said they didn’t know.
Feature, not bug.
Some time back, you published resignation letters from elders of the Chapel Hill Bible Church. One stated, “… repeatedly during my time as an elder, decisions were made which I had absolutely no input, yet these decisions were characterized to the congregation as having the endorsement of all elders.”
Dee, your question, “Who is really running the show?” is key. When no one knows who is really making the decisions, it’s easy for a select group to be operating behind the scenes, so both they and their actual agenda remain shrouded in darkness. We are called as children of the light.
JJallday,
Here’s the tweet:
https://twitter.com/freedomsbride/status/1719106922442330379
I think your interpretation is accurate, that this is for a prior intervention; it’s a little unclear as there is not context within the tweet (followers presumably have more awareness of the prior history from prior tweets). I initially had the alarming thought that perhaps the petition was the intervention for which she is being billed, but that is so grotesque that I think it is unlikely.
Dee reported: “The SBC Executive Committee must continue to defend itself, and its interests, within the judicial system as appropriate. These goals (eradicating sexual abuse and legally defending itself) are not mutually exclusive,” it read.”
This is telling. Their goal (which is not possible) is to eradicate sexual abuse in the future, yet they feel no obligation to take care of those already abused or to see justice done. It’s another iteration of ” Let’s move on.”
And they are wrong that the goals don’t conflict. If your official position is that you are against justice for a past abuse survivor, you are strengthening the kind of culture that makes abuse more likely. Money cannot make up for the harm, but there is a large financial cost to abuse for the victim.
The “gospel” their behavior preaches is contrary to the Gospel of Jesus. How many struggle with faith because of this? What impact does this have on spreading the Good News?
Can you imagine the difference it would make both the the wounded and to the watching world if the church was instead more like Zaccheus or the Good Samaritan?
Vladimir Lenin would be proud of them.
He got a perverse pleasure on making the Capitalist Enemy foot the bill for their own extermination.
oldthinkers unbellyfeel INGSOC.
Who in their right mind would WANT to imitate a Christ like that?
Unless you’re an Egomaniac and a Sociopath.
The woman whose case the amicus brief was filed for is Samantha Killary.
Hanna Kate Lee Osborne, the woman who SBC tried to get involuntarily committed, is presumably another woman, though she might have been a witness in Samantha Killary’s case. That situation is bizarre, too. A reporter reached out to her on X/Twitter, so maybe we’ll know more soon.
I’ve said it before.
Everything that happened to the Catholic Diocese in Boston is gonna’ happen to the SBC.
It’ll be a bomb-shell, huge pay-outs, crocodile tears, the works.
Corporations, companies, businesses, and non-profit orgs can and have been sued because someone within an org was/is a sexual abuser. When it comes down to it, the SBC is no different, and certainly no better than any other organization. Oh, the the SBC is not a highly organized top-down operation like the Catholic Church, but ……..
……. For decades, many high level SBC men —- who were in positions to do the right right thing — were very much aware that abuse was happing in SBC churches and entities, and they actively and intentionally did everything within their power to protect (No, not the victims…. NEVER the victims) to protect the perps and provide cover for them. Their goals were to protect and increase the SBC finances, influence, reputation, and membership. …… victims be damned! …..Decades of CYA, at the victims’ expense….. It it wasn’t for a few very courageous victims and #ChurchToo, the SBC would still be fooling everyone.
The SBC is not a “third party”.
But it’ll cry if it wants to.
😉
Only under pressure, did “Southern Baptist leaders release a previously secret list of accused sexual abusers” https://www.npr.org/2022/05/27/1101734793/southern-baptist-sexual-abuse-list-released
A criminal court would have a heyday with that!
Over at Voices-(Pravda) Todd B tried to be the voice or reason but William and especially Louis shouted him down.
Max,
MAX “They lost their identity as soul-winning, evangelistic, mission-minded Southern Baptists while they dined on potluck meals with fun and fellowship.”
Max, I guess we could return to the good old days of 30 minute altar calls singing “Just as I am” for 15 of those minutes – dubiously
Max:
What happened after this list was published?–IMO very little.
my experience with SBCVoices … voice of reason doesn’t always work with that bunch … I haven’t commented on that blog in years – got tired of them ganging up on me and my humble, but accurate, opinion … they simply didn’t want to hear my SBC voice and my 60 year perspective as a Southern Baptist (I wasn’t in their tribe)
What happened after this list was published?–IMO very little.
Tom Parker,
Well, they kicked out three churches that had women pastors and successfully passed the first phase of banning all churches with females in pastoral/preacher/church leader positions.
IOW, they made it painfully clear what really, truly matters.
Other than that, there hasn’t really been anything newsworthy.
Did you wear a HazMat suit? Protecting yourself from the muck?
Ava Aaronson,
It sure got deep!
Nancy2(aka Kevlar),
I assume there is much going on behind the scenes. I understand the leaders don’t want it to happen but they have little wiggle room with the vote from the messengers.
but the leaders will use every tactic available to delay the process-they are untouchable
Again, the SBC makes the world safe for Pedo/Predator PASTORS.
“TOUCH NOT MINE ANOINTED!”
And safe from Gurlz Cooties.
Because Reason is of The Flesh and they’re Moving in The Spirit.
JUST LIKE SCIENTOLOGY!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Freakout
dee,
IMO, the leaders very much want and are actively trying to make the SBC a top-down, lockstep entity with the ability to hide beneath a the cloak of “autonomy of the local church”.
And, I think, Al Mohler (the would-be pope???) is most likely the man behind the curtain who started this amicus brief. He’s the type to do it, and who else in the SBC elite would be so alert to what goes on in Louisville secular and legal society? AFAIK, neither the victim nor the perps have any connection to the SBC.
Yeah, my reasoning – seasoned with age – annoys them … “Touch not mine annoyed”
Behind a curtain in a smoke-filled room behind a locked door down a dark alley in Louisville.
inaccessible, indestructible, invulnerable, indomitable … too slimy to catch
I still say the guy could pass for Rodney Dangerfield’s Evil Twin.
JUST LIKE CALVARY CHAPEL!
Well, thx for sorting through the muck for the rest of us.
Can’t even imagine.
Luckyforward: “I should have read it more carefully.”
Great bro drop! Quick, carve it under his bust in the Hall of Celebrity while he’s still alive to bask.
Er, um, he could always read his Bible more carefully too – as long as it’s not been tampered with by Grudem.
There’s a tremendous need for that in SBC life right now. New Calvinism thrives in a once-great evangelistic denomination because the SBC millions don’t read their Bibles, nor pray, as they ought. It’s hard to believe that the leading characters in the NeoCal movement were chosen by God before the foundation of the earth … just look at the mess they’ve made of things!
In case you haven’t seen “Go Wayne Grudem!” … https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GAmzaAtvhvw&t=29s
HMMM
emily honey: On X/Twitter Hannah-Kate states that the SBC has petitioned the court to have her involuntarily committed, which she believes is a move so that she can’t testify in legal proceedings in her lawsuit against them. She tweeted today that she “got an almost $3,000 bill for crisis intervention from the Southern Baptist Convention petition to have me committed so that I couldn’t testify in a case against them.”
______________
There are at least a couple of things that are confusing here. It’s been at least 30 years since people could be involuntarily committed by families, institutions etc. to a state or private mental hospital. Those days passed at least 3 decades ago; maybe 4. In my quite large state it takes an Act of God to get somebody involuntarily committed to a state institution. Now a policeman or a psychological professional can have somebody sent to a facility for a 72 hr hold but unless that individual is a threat to kill themselves or somebody else the moment they leave the institution holding them, they’re gonna be released within 72 hrs or less.
The SBC, of all institutions, has no power to have anybody committed. Zero, Zip, Nada power. However, just like you TWW commenter, they could certainly call the local police department to request somebody be put on a 72 hr hold but they don’t make the decision. The policeman does or the state licensed mental health professional does.
*
As for the SBC billing somebody for a crisis intervention; that assumes a written contract where an individuals agrees to pay an institution for services rendered. The SBC or a church within the SBC can send a request that you pay an amount for intervention but without a contract; the request has no teeth to it. Since the SBC is not a licensed mental professional, this dog ain’t gonna hunt. There’s something really “havey cavey” about this story.
You can take this any way you want:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XrLzYw6ULYw
The Good-O-Meter
Central Films
Michael in UK,
Preaching grace without preaching Jesus is not Grace at all. The New Calvinists seldom talk about Jesus … it’s all about God, with little mention of Christ, and nary a word about the Holy Spirit. Grace-this and grace-that won’t score very high on the Good-O-Meter.
dee,
SBCLitigation on X reported that the Brief was filed back in April 22 even before the case was accepted by the court. August was the 3rd time SBC filed the Brief.
https://twitter.com/SBCLitigation/status/1718992311843991602
This is absolutely evil and sickening
This
+++++++++++++++++
Seems to me they’re saying “well, shucks”, shuffling their feet, hands in their pockets….
Everyone’s been brainwashed to be so docile.
I long for someone of some consequence to raise a ruckus. Surely they have some leverage, some kind of weight to throw around in a strategic way.
Instead of whining.
I didn’t know
I only had 3 hours
seneca,
The inconsistency is on the side of the instigators not of the one receiving. And we read daily of (and experience) vexatious corporant litigants, repeat demanders of bills not due, threatending behaviours on doorsteps, etc, so a movement with proven form in this sort of tactic cannot be exempt from suspicions, now confirmed by the surrounding information.
With their “hoax hoaxes” and by flinging mud at someone defenceless they hope to attract against her a lesser but still severe and inappropriate action by some authority or other, also the continual harassing is intended to occupy her full attention, wrongfoot her, and damage her emotions and cognition by deliberately putting forward something untruthful in logic. Even Bart B. is now admitting its contents and that it wasn’t something he would have liked to approve if he hadn’t wasted all those hours.
They are using the well known ploy of overstating their moves in order to undermine morale and supposedly “defend” by attacking. It works in the animal world such as butterflies with “eyes” bigger than birds. As you’ve mixed with those (too long, like me) surely you knew that? The difference is: butterflies aren’t grinding axes against people smaller than themselves, and don’t enlist dishonest colluders with their own probable viciousness to uphold (the bringers of the actual case would surely have publicly announced they were countersuing the SBC for interfering, if they weren’t in on it).
Religious corporations’ behaviours in an outcome-oriented political state are directed solely against individuals as means. As you expected yourself to be on the receiving end of it, mainly in bad theology, because you incorrectly thought you deserved it, you didn’t notice how wrongful it all was. They damaged your cognition and mine because their “sacred” doctrine was untruthful in logic and made unrightful demands.
If they hadn’t wronged her they wouldn’t be singling her out. Thus the inconsistency isn’t on her part. I note your wording wasn’t accusing her, but merely noting an inconsistency among a number of parties proves nothing, yet we can clearly see – including from surrounding information – on what side that was. HTH.
And the “fake real” ruckus over what women do to keep churches going is a decoy. Every time R Warren finds himself induced to spend time and effort sticking up for the women pastors he is being distracted from what is real teaching on Christ and future salvation at all – the things the goons are denying and discrediting above all.
As an Englishman of mixed background I don’t see what value there is in being “southern” or “baptist” or “catholic” or “calvin” -ist, old, neo or new, those are words with less than zero content. St Paul wasn’t impressed by affiliations because he knew that real life is a raw experience (partly “thanks” to people with affiliations).
Denominations should be run honestly and according to the principle of principle. Ecumenism by the bosses, who stop ordinary pew goers from using any discretion, means colluding in thug theology applied in every walk against their unwary adherents. And “new” / “neo” / etc “calvin” -ists even pretend to be against ecumenism!
England has gone the same way: the bosses usurped what was once free individuals’ ecumenism and have taken this a step further by pretending to be the enemy to each other, so how dare we have an outlook.
Try telling the Macarthur outfit that, and try sending big “officially friendly” dogs at people unwarrantedly and from obviously underhand motives. The SBC protesteth much because the more it protesteth the “better”: “how dare she say they started it”. They and their UK and non-protestant twins like to look like bad guys because God is a bad guy, otherwise they wouldn’t have wanted to consecrate their careerings to “Him”. I’ve split from all that, to set you a good example.
Does anyone think that the documents that Bart B. was “allowed” to see but not copy or put in his files, before being frogmarched out, had a more toned down content than the ones being aimed against this woman in practice? But, he can’t admit that because it will make him look disloyal now. One doesn’t rise to the dizzy top as figurehead by drawing attention to a mind. They will say he has lost his memory and needs to be committed! In another church the man in charge of the files filed everything so that it could be used against the organization later (which it has, though not making any dent in their corporate standing).
For disloyalty!
They have succeeded in breeding Totally Domesticated Human Stock who will walk voluntarily into the abattoir and bare their neck for the slaughter knife of Their Betters.
i.e. What China and North Korea have been trying to do for generations.
Yet another sad development at an SBC church:
“An Alabama pastor and mayor died by suicide Friday after a conservative blog wrote a story about him wearing women’s clothing as a “hobby.”’
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/alabama-mayor-bubba-copeland-died-by-suicide_n_6547b70de4b01b258584135c
JUST LIKE UNDER COMRADE BREZHNEV!
Thank you, Max, for the link to the HuffPost article Alabama Mayor And Pastor Died By Suicide After His Social Media Accounts Are Exposed….
While I was reading the article, I said to my computer (and no offence or insult to anyone intended….and I hope no one takes what I write the way it’s so often misused and abused): “If the people who drove the Alabama mayor and and pastor to suicide don’t pay in this lifetime, at least they’ll be judged when they die.”
Don’t the people who drove the mayor and pastor to suicide have anything else to do with their time????
In other news:
https://julieroys.com/american-baptist-churches-usa-rev-gina-jacobs-strain/
Apparently they are the original baptists?
It’s as easy as ABC.
“ABCUSA is still congregational in structure, with churches encouraged to decide on their own doctrine, missions and style of worship in autonomy”.
Elastigirl,
There should be a Union of Board members pushing for basic standards among trustees / officers. Baroness Warsi advocates public revolt within organisations above resigning.
(Hannah Arendt believed that the then “zionism” had gone off course in her time. Imposing of one voice on another killed Yitzak Rabin. Dispensationism has continually fuelled this, but christians don’t care enough to pray to establish their peers of all races against that. Whom does it suit to keep Hamas in place and to not honestly remember our troops maimed in Afghanistan? I am too jewish for the Nazis – on one of my English sides. The uncle I didn’t know I had – a middle child like me – is last known to be known of when he was 12.)
The entire OT and NT form a diatribe against placing externals as highest value and the ensuing hegemonist, irredentist, totalist hubris. Whom does it suit to keep “neocal” and lookalike shibboleths in place, with faux shifts sometimes replacing those with fashionably convenient “different” ones? No prayer for the church = no prayer for the world.
Like a slow-speed welfare check?
On the subject of suicide hordes of youngsters are now hounded by trolls. Just because some of them are less identifiable doesn’t mean they aren’t doing the same thing to them. Jesus asked us to ask questions (critical theory).
My reaction when I saw this story in Roys’ staff’s fair minded piece:
It really isn’t a matter of sumptuary law, nor even of eccentricities in local religions. He has incited people to take hormones in a frivolous context, has impersonated a transgender (while there are genuine ones, including in a good group I know), and has used real children and public figures as subject matters for his unedifying “entertainments”. Are those the sins that (the then) commenters at Roys’ commit?
One of my questions: did his wife warn his children and if not, why not? Another: why would he want people to want these policies from a town mayor? Does he do his civic, humanitarian and “spiritual” work because he was induced by bad religion to think he needs self whitewashing? (Not just in Alabama but also in England, trust in Holy Spirit has disappeared.)
My additional observations:
– He is reinforcing stereotypes.
– Do genuine transgenders troll the vulnerable to relieve stress?
– Does familiarity with bot methods without critique (what questions would Jesus want asked) reflect some sort of tie to such operatives?
– It’s almost as if there are sleepers in theological movements (caught in material dialectics a.k.a kneejerk reactivity). What do they really think of general critical theory? Most sleepers wouldn’t need activating by their principals.
– Does Mr Copeland have too many jobs?
The analogy with Boss Bart’s Brief or equivalents elsewhere is too close. When hearing of wrongs is the first response of believing readers to break into supplication (whether privately, or on Dee’s Sunday page)?
Further: I hope the hitherto esteemed Huff hasn’t got an animus against local outlets.
Their time would have been better spent reaching out and getting the man some help, rather than judging him.
But then how can the Righteous Virtue-Signal their RHGHTeousness?
How else can they be Better Than Thou?
Max,
He appears to have taken that action as soon as it came to light. It was grave as I have described at 8.48 hrs – whether a police matter or not. Among my questions are, doesn’t a pastor have a support network and doesn’t a mayor have a support network? How can he work his way into those positions unbeknownst to people with objectivity? Are there small towns where no-one has? Did his wife and children have any friends?
Headless Unicorn Guy,
Certainly I’ve not seen any criticisms that were genuinely to the point. They all focussed on his gender not the children’s whom he shouldn’t be interfering with, nor on his misuse of medical propaganda.