The first-anniversary image from NASA’s James Webb Space Telescope displays star birth like it’s never been seen before, full of detailed, impressionistic texture. NASA
“To be trusted is a greater compliment than being loved.” George MacDonald
Sex abuse between a licensed counselor and a client.
What would you call a licensed clinical counselor who embarks on a sexual relationship with a client? Is it a simple affair? No, it is an abuse of the client/counselor relationship. It is also abuse that can lead to a tort action. Usually, a client is made to sign a contract or agreement with a counselor. Guess where I will go with this?
Here is one abstract on the matter.
Sex between therapists and clients has emerged as a significant phenomenon, one that the profession has not adequately acknowledged or addressed. Extensive research has led to recognition of the extensive harm that therapist-client sex can produce. Nevertheless, research suggests that perpetrators account for about 4.4% of therapists (7% of male therapists; 1.5% of female therapists) when data from national studies are pooled. This chapter looks at the history of this problem, the harm it can cause, gender patterns, the possibility that the rate of therapists sexually abusing their clients is declining, and the mental health professions’ urgent, unfinished business in this area.
…Although the prohibition against sex with patients reaches back beyond Freud, beyond the Hippocratic Oath, and at least as far as the code of the Nigerian Healing Arts, it was only with systematic research that began in the 1950s that the profession began to understand the depth, pervasiveness, and persistence of the harm that can result when therapists abuse their license, role, power, and trust.
Partly as a result of this increasing understanding of the consequent harm, it came to be recognized as more than a violation of professional or clinical ethics, of licensing laws, and of the civil laws (i.e., patients can sue offending therapists for malpractice in the civil courts). An increasing number of states have criminalized therapist-client sex, some classifying it as a felony. As one court held in reviewing the constitutionality of criminalizing therapist-client sex concluded:
the state has a legitimate interest not only in protecting persons undergoing psychotherapy from being sexually exploited by the treating therapist but also in regulating and maintaining the integrity of the mental health profession. It is equally obvious to us that the legislative decision to criminally proscribe a psychotherapist’s knowing infliction of sexual penetration on a psychotherapy client is reasonably related to these legitimate governmental interests. . . . [It] therefore comports with due process of law.
Whether because of increasing recognition of ways in which sex with a therapist can harm a client, increasing legal penalties, or other factors, studies suggest that fewer and fewer therapists are sexually abusing their patients.
Over time, it has become increasingly recognized that pastors’ relationship with their members is similar to that of a counselor to her client. Sexual misconduct in that context is a violation of trust and a misuse of the power differential. Like it on not, pastors wield enormous power over their membership. Many people regard their pastor as a sort of counselor of the soul. Therefore, people open their lives and hearts to someone they believe can help them spiritually and psychologically. It is difficult for many, myself included, to say where the line between spiritual and psychological (or spirit and psyche) begins and ends.
Enter the clergy abuse laws.
We can read this on the Clergy Sexual Misconduct Information and Resources website. In answering the question, “Is Clergy sexual misconduct illegal? It says:
Adult Clergy Sexual Abuse Criminal Statutes
Clergy sexual misconduct (CSM)/clergy sexual abuse (CSA) toward an adult is illegal in several states in the US. Survivors of clergy-perpetrated sexual abuse of adults, advocates, and experts are working to make clergy sexual abuse of adults criminalized in all 50 states.
Supporting legislation that makes it a crime for clergy members to commit sexual misconduct against adults in their spiritual care may help add another layer of protection for parishioners and hold abusive clergy accountable for their criminal acts of sexual abuse.
In many states, survivors of adult clergy sexual abuse can also choose to file a civil lawsuitagainst the abusive clergy and hold the religious institution legally accountable for ordaining or hiring a leader with a history of misconduct.
Where is Adult Clergy Sexual Abuse Against the Law?
Below is a list of states in the US with criminal statutes making it a crime for a member of the clergy to engage in sexualized behavior toward a congregant.
If your state has recently criminalized clergy-perpetrated sexual abuse of adults, please contact us with your state statute to be listed below. Please note that we do not offer legal advice.
Did you know that 26% of the states have outlawed clergy sexual misconduct? Here is a list on the website of states which have passed laws outlawing clergy sexual misconduct. Other states are contemplating such laws.
ARKANSAS (AR)
CONNECTICUT (CT)
DELAWARE (DE)
DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA (DC)
IOWA (IA)
MAINE (ME)
MINNESOTA (MN)
NEW MEXICO (NM)
NORTH DAKOTA (ND)
SOUTH DAKOTA (SD)
TENNESSEE (TN)
TEXAS (TX)
UTAH (UT)
WISCONSIN (WI)
In these references, do you ever see clergy sexual misconduct referred to as “pastoral affairs?” That would be a resounding “Nope!”
Even more problematic for pastors is the membership covenant.
Yep, I’m beating on that drum again. I’m sure we will hear from some whiney butts that there is no professional relationship between the pastor and members. There is. As I have said over and over again, membership covenants are legal contracts that allow the church to enforce all sorts of stupid rules like “Submit yourself to church discipline even though we will never tell you a priori what actions are disciplinable. We like to play around with that to keep you all on your toes.”
I contend that the pastor has a contract with members and is the professional in this relationship between member and pastor. The pastor can be sued for initiating sexual relationships with Elder Jim’s beautiful wife, who came to the pastor for what thought was spiritual counseling and who he thought might be good fun on Tuesday afternoon while waiting for ChapGPT to write the sermon.
Sam Allberry speaks out on the issue of pastors and trust but downplays clergy sexual abuse.
Here is the video recorded two years ago.
It appeared at The Gospel Coalition titled “How Can Pastors Become Trusted Again? Here is the synopsis of his talk.
Pastor and apologist, Sam Allberry, addresses the reasons Christian pastors have become less trustworthy in society, and how they might become trusted again. Pastors need to appreciate why trust has been lost, Allberry says, and they should prioritize compassion, honesty, pointing people to Jesus, and striving to become more like Jesus themselves. The more like Jesus pastors are, the more trustworthy they’ll become.
He recounts a time when he, dressed in clerical robes, walked through a park to a masquerade. He said a woman in the park reached out and pulled her child close, looking at him with horror. This is not a surprising scenario to me. Why? Worldwide knowledge of increasing reports of clergy sex abuse is responsible for that reaction. Here is Allberry’s list of “bad things pastors have done.”
affairs, embezzeling, bullying, lavish lifestyle, politics, dismissing all sicussion of gender ideology and sexulaity, and abuse (ed note: nospecific) of other people or covering it up.
What did he leave out? He didn’t mention “sexual abuse” or “sexual misconduct.” When he gave this talk, it seemed he believed that pastors only have affairs, which means “Nothing to see here. This is between two consenting adults, and we’ll send him to one of those lodges for fallen pastors if he’s a rainmaker.”
All those actions on his list are bad. Still, the woman pulled her kid away from Allberry due to the rampant reporting of pastoral sexual misconduct/abuse, not because she was concerned about clergy who embezzle. It used to be that only Catholics talked about clergy who were sexual abusers. Now the talk on Twitter is about the Southern Baptists and other Protestant groups.
I was particularly concerned that Allberry did not mention the sexual abuse of children and downplayed sexual abuse of adults as simple affairs.
Being a member of the Calvinistas means always trusting each other and never trusting the theologically impaired pew sitters.
To make matters worse, he quoted Dane Ortlund, whose dad Ray works at Immanuel Nashville with Allberry. Ortlund said that the thing that helps him most in ministry is not his library but his tears. Sounds good but isn’t this talk supposed to be about pastoral trust? The Roys Report posted Investigation Finds Author, Pastor Dane Ortlund Likely Retaliated Against Church Employee. It didn’t sound like tears were flowing on the part of Ortlund in that instance.
You can read the story, but let me leave you with this. Allberry was one of the main speakers with Ravi Zacharias. He shut down people who tried to tell him that there was a problem. He has since apologized, sort of, for his role in that debacle. When I heard about his apology, “I didn’t know!” I wondered why this bright man didn’t initiate a quick review of RZ. I did in 2015 and knew discovered there was a problem. Folks, it isn’t that hard! Allberry does it again with this post. He quotes a guy who has some baggage. Then again, Dane, Sam, and Ray are all part of TGC, are bonded, and trust each other. No need to read about the negative stuff, right?
Allberry points to himself and claims he has a problem with irritability. I assure him that no one who hears that will pull their child away from him in the park. The elephant in the room is sexual abuse. The other stuff is bad. Stop saying clergy sexual abuse is simply an affair. It’s not. It wasn’t for David and Bathsheba, and it wasn’t for Johnny Hunt.
Sorry, Sam, you are too smart for this nonsense.
“Over time, it has become increasingly recognized that pastors’ relationship with their members is similar to that of a counselor to her client. Sexual misconduct in that context is a violation of trust and a misuse of the power differential.”
THIS !
no such thing as a ‘predatory pastor’
– – – wolf in sheep’s clothing, yep
something profoundly evil about a violation of trust when the predator is ‘a pastor’
people don’t see the predation coming . . . the trust permits the predator enough opening credibility to get into the sheep-fold to reek havoc
affair? no way, more like a crime against humanity itself, especially against someone very young
Dee, I’ve never been able to understand why teachers, therapists, even financial planners who have a fiduciary relationship are held to strict accountability regarding sexual misconduct–and clergy are not. It is my understanding that Catholic priests are mandatory reporters of child abuse, even if heard in the confessional. Where is the level of accountability for child/teen/adult sexual abuse for Protestant clergy?
As for the membership covenants, several of the churches in my area who used to make mention of their membership covenants on their web sites have removed them. Are church covenants clearly explained in membership classes? Mmmm…doubt it.
One church I’m aware of requires those applying for membership to inform them if they have been arrested or convicted of any crime or felony. I mentioned to the pastors that employers can only ask if they have been convicted of a felony. I fully support background checks for those working with children, but for basic membership? Furthermore, depending upon where you live, any number of the residents will have a criminal record of some sort. That church would never survive, let alone grow there.
Additional questions ask about where they attended church previously, were they comfortable with this church’s “covenant,” yet couldn’t find a copy of the covenant.
And don’t get me started on Sam Allberry.
Old Timer,
This may seem like Im tooting my own horn, but… years ago, I started featuring membership covenants from churches that I found on their websites. I posted them and explained what I perceived as abusive leadership in the churches. I did this so many times s others started copying me. I think we drove them all underground. Thankfully, people make copies of the ones they must sign in the church and send them my way. Almost all of them mention church discipline with no parameters, the need to tell leaders one is leading the church, and the need to join a like church ASAP, which is also undefined. It was the last one that got Todd in trouble in Dubai a decade ago.
The church we joined does not have a covenant which is common in liturgical churches. I wouldn’t sign one again.
As for the criminal conviction stuff, some churches are so afraid they are going way beyond intelligent boundaries.
So, what do you know about Sam? Todd and I know a thing or two but will have to wait for corroboration.
Does Allberry think that coercing women and/or minors into having sex is on the same level as having “a problem with irritability”???
Would he make that comparison of his wife or child was victimized? I doubt it.
Why make solely headline issues your criterion? What about stealing truth from the minds of hundreds of millions?
Has anyone read this: https://julieroys.com/ousted-fl-megachurch-pastor-sues-arc-network-alleging-conspiracy-deception/ ?
Stovall Weems (honestly, where do they get those names from? Is there an ARC clergy name generator?) is suing the ARC (Association of Relapsed Clergy, f.k.a. Association of Related Churches [a self-referential abbreviation if ever there was one]).
Let’s hope this gets through the discovery phase and isn’t settled – lots to find out.
Get the popcorn!
“Still, the woman pulled her kid away from Allberry due to the rampant reporting of pastoral sexual misconduct/abuse”
Maybe. If the anecdote is true – and I think we always have to raise that question regarding a pastor’s anecdote – it’s more probable that the mother, seeing a person in a High Church Anglican outfit, thought he was dressed up as a wizard.
Seriously, how does he know why the woman pulled her kid back? Maybe she was just afraid he was a freak because he was out wearing a robe in public.
Because there has been so much misconduct unreported for so long, this entire profession is now tainted with shades of evil right from the jump. (See the Houston Chronicle’s “Abuse of Faith” series, or just read any MSM news daily.)
This may be unfortunate for the Good Guys, however,
-how many Good Guys have advocated for victims and exposed their clergy colleagues? Where is the outcry, the outrage?
-The Good Guys have a public platform with an audience at least once a week on Sundays; how many of them and how often do they call out the problem of clergy sexual abuse and clergy predators? Never? Jesus preached that sermon (Matthew 23), but do the Good Guy clergy then preach that sermon?
-Do the Good Guys ever advocate for victims of their evil colleagues? Show up in court supporting victims?
-Do they research and write about the issues of narcissism amongst their own?
-Are the Good Guys working with LE and the DOJ to clean out their profession? Exposing the monsters? Listening to victims? Giving voice to victims?
Don’t group the Good Guys in with the evil predatory pastors? How about, when have the Good Guys EVER ungrouped themselves from the evil predatory pastors? (Driving the getaway car or circling the wagons on behalf of evil colleagues is complicit. Silence is also complicit.)
The Good Guys communicate constantly (pulpits, conferences, youtube, books, tapes, interviews), incessantly, as the only voice in the room. WHEN DO THEY USE THEIR PRIVILEGE TO ADDRESS THIS PROBLEM, EXPOSE COLLEAGUE CLERGY PREDATORS, AND MAKE CHURCH A SAFE PLACE? Who has publicly stood with Christa Brown? Aimee Byrd? Jules Woodson? Who has publicly spoken out against Piper, Driscoll, RZ, pastors with planes & mansions, the SBC’s torment of women, and every single predatory pastor showing up in court as a felon – the colleagues of the Good Guys?
Cry a river for the Good Guys suffering scrutiny now in their calling as pastors? Maybe the so-called Good Guys need to step up, to live up to the Good Guy status they desire, and stop being complicit.
This is a clergy issue. Where are the clergy taking a stand on the issue of clergy abuse?
In general, the clergy work to keep the sheep in line, but then completely ignore the evil in their profession, among their colleagues. Integrity doesn’t work that way.
Sunlight is good. Cleansing. Walk in the light, as He is in the light, and you will have fellowship with one another. 1 John 1.
There is a great deal of darkness that goes on with clergy regarding what is going on among their own ranks in churches. Silence is complicit.
So when it comes to loyalty and obedience to the church/church leaders, pastoral authority is asserted and demanded upon.
But when it comes to having sex with one of the congregants, it’s not an abuse of that authority, it’s just a regular guy who happened to have sex with someone else.
What levels of self deception and sin have to be present to embrace such a hypocrisy!
In addition to legally, addressing a clergy person, having sex with a congregant, I also think all states need to pass laws to make all clergy mandatory reporters.
Tom Rubino,
Well said…
Before everyone gets too excited about Sam Allberry, he also said this in the same paragraph Dee quoted from – “ But in more recent times, there have been more and more instances of pastors maybe allowing a political ideology to overtake their ministry or pastors who have been discovered abusing people in their church or covering up abuse that other people have done.” He also said the following in October 2019 on the TGC website when looking at Matthew 5:2-28 in the context of the #metoo movement – “ Stories of harassment and abuse spread in realms of politics, media, academia, and religion. A parallel #ChurchToo hashtag also emerged, as survivors of assault in churches or by church leaders shared their horrific experiences……. But, given the prevalence of sexual assault by men against women, it is significant that the scenario describes a man looking lustfully at a woman. Jesus is saying that she is precious and valuable; she has sexual dignity, which should be honored by everyone else. This sexual dignity is so precious to Jesus that it must not be violated, even in the privacy of someone else’s mind…. We tend to think that someone’s thought life is their business alone, that what they think about in their own head has nothing to do with anyone else. Jesus disagrees. Looking with lustful intent is so serious precisely because the other person is worth so much. Love honors (1 Pet. 2:17), but lust degrades and objectifies. We forsake lust not because sexuality is so cheap, but because it is so valuable……We see this value consistently reflected throughout the whole Bible. Following his violation of Bathsheba and the arranged killing of her husband, Uriah, David confesses his wickedness to God: “Against you, you only, have I sinned” (Ps. 51:4). We might think David conveniently overlooks the human cost of his sin and writes it off as a “spiritual matter.” But the opposite is true. David is recognizing that his violation of Bathsheba’s sexuality, and the cruel termination of the marriage in which that sexuality had been rightfully expressed, is ultimately high treason against God himself—precisely because God places such high value on our sexual dignity.”
I think he’s quite clear in his condemnation.
“pastors wield enormous power over their membership”
It’s increasingly clear that some men go into the ministry with this as a primary objective … to manipulate, intimidate and dominate others. It’s a sickness not a calling.
Which, of course, is not the Biblical mandate for pastors. Paul paints a picture of how they are supposed to be:
“I have a special concern for you church leaders. I know what it’s like to be a leader, in on Christ’s sufferings as well as the coming glory. Here’s my concern: that you care for God’s flock with all the diligence of a shepherd. Not because you have to, but because you want to please God. Not calculating what you can get out of it, but acting spontaneously. Not bossily telling others what to do, but tenderly showing them the way.” (1 Peter 5:1-3 MSG)
“26% of the states have outlawed clergy sexual misconduct”
Which means abuser-wannabe seminarians looking for a job will search for one in the other 74% of states … just in case.
“membership covenants are legal contracts that allow the church to enforce all sorts of stupid rules”
Never, ever, forever ever join a church that requires you to sign a membership covenant! If you have already signed one, wiggle out of it and find another church where membership is voluntary (the Church of Jesus Christ is a free church). The only a covenant that a believer needs to enter into is the one written in red by Jesus.
“the more like Jesus pastors are, the more trustworthy they’ll become.” (Sam Allberry)
Now, that’s not the kind of stuff you usually hear from a Calvinista! Heck, they typically teach that “the more like Paul pastors are, the more this and that.” Christlikeness is not something NeoCals strive for, since Jesus receives little airtime compared to Paul and Piper. To find out how Jesus is, they would have to read the Gospels … but they obviously prefer to camp out in the epistles of Paul, where they can twist more easily what he said than taking on Jesus.
Articles like this posted by The Gospel Coalition are yet another reason to write them off and move on. Their views just don’t come across as Christian sometimes … and are certainly not good guidance for budding young pastors.
= New Calvinism
“Boys will be boys” does not apply to clergy. No sin-leveling here. Their sin is much bigger when they betray clergy/laity trust (“You have worked on the side of evil” Matthew 7). When pastors sign on to be ambassadors for Christ, they enter a sacred agreement with God to pursue purity and holiness … not lusts of the flesh. Thus, when pastors fail morally, they are permanently disqualified from ministry … they can’t be restored to that sacred office … they have forfeited that role (in my humble, but accurate, opinion).
on second thought, NeoCal belief and practice are not followed by hundreds of millions …. probably more like, hundreds of thousands … Praise the Lord!, Calvinista reach and influence are not that widespread
Like a union, you gotta pay your dues. What are the benefits? (Other than to the person/people running the church …)
It’s odd. You sign the church covenant, like a work contract, and then you gotta do your part. But unlike your real job, you don’t get paid. In this case, you gotta do the work AND pay your overseers to be your overseers. So, basically whoever signs a church covenant is out EVERYTHING. It’s a black hole (full of nothingness or even despair?).
Jesus had no such covenant or contract. The covenant we have with God is to love Him all in, and to love our neighbor as ourselves. Our life purpose is to be friends with God, and respect others as they are made in the image of the God we love. We have a covenant all right, and it’s with God; the benefit is we are in fellowship with God Himself, and in fellowship with each other. Fellowship. Relationship. More precious than gold.
There’s no money involved here. That’s the 9-5 deal M-F, that puts food on the table and a roof over our heads. The fact that pastors don’t do that type of work contract themselves as productive members of society, but turning church into a business, and church work into capitalism, that’s what Jesus flipped over and evicted from the Temple with righteous angry rage.
As Christians, we do our 9-5 M-F deal, that’s a contract, that’s money.
As Christians, we share in fellowship with others the gifts of the Holy Spirit God has appointed and anointed to us: 1 Cor 12, Rom 12, Eph 4. The covenant is with God the Giver of the HS gifts – GIFTS, so no money, no charges.
How is it that all the biblical literalists get off the track when they themselves are charging other folks for GIFTS of the Holy Spirit?
Luther rejected indulgences, payment for forgiveness of sins. But he didn’t take this far enough. No gift of the Holy Spirit should exact charges from one’s fellow man. It’s a gift of the Holy Spirit, anointed and appointed to each Christian for the benefit of the entire Body of Christ.
God tolerated polygamy in the Old Testament.
God tolerates pay-to-play churches today, but it’s not right. It’s weak, unfaithful, corrupting, and unbiblical. The GIFTS of the Holy Spirit are never pay-to-play. If there are income and charges involved, then it’s not a gift and not from the Holy Spirit. It’s a masquerade, fake, mere façade, false front. Man has made some of the gifts of the Holy Spirit into paying jobs. This is not from God. Gifts are not paying jobs. If I have the gift of mercy or teaching or pastoring, I was given that GIFT from the Holy Spirit to GIVE to my fellow Jesus-following believers without charge.
You can’t pay for a gift from the Holy Spirit. Anything you pay for in the Kingdom, is not from God. In the New Testament, Christians housed and fed their traveling apostles, preachers, teachers, and evangelists. But they never paid them, particularly they did not pay them for their GIFTS from the Holy Spirit.
Pastor, teacher, administrator, etc., as salaried careers are an invention of man but have nothing to do with the GIFTS of the Holy Spirit.
Side note: I belong to a women’s organization. We all volunteer. No one gets paid a salary. We contract our CPA, so that’s a fee paid; some in the organization have the “gift of giving” so they put money in the kitty for such fees. Anyway, if this group of women can figure this out, so can Christians. BTW, the org got PPP money, a small amount, and then paid it back pronto, once COVID had passed, so no loan forgiveness. Just a bunch of women, but then what do women know?
I have 3 words that need to be brought up here in the context of clergy abuse….CRIMINAL SEXUAL OFFENDER. End of story.these guys get their names on the internet and have to register where they live…kinda hard to be a pastoral CSO….hmmmm.
All 50 states need to have them as mandated reporters. Also, those church contracts are one sided, at least the 2 I have read. Both of them told me what I needed to do/how to act, and neither told me what they promised to do for me. I signed neither.
That’s why I say that the only covenant a believer needs to enter into is the one written in red by Jesus. He has promised to never leave you or forsake you, to give you rest, to guide you by the Holy Spirit, to take you to where He is in eternity. Yep, no reason for a Christian to sign on a church dotted line when the Creator of the Universe has already signed you up for much, much more.
But, what good is a gift if it’s not received? Much of the organized church does not believe in, teach or promote the operation of spiritual gifting within the Body of Christ. Pulpit power mongers don’t want you to know who you are in Christ … they can’t control you if you do.
It’s only a matter of time before the whole Protestant world is shaken to its core when there’s a landmark court case against its upper echelon, and they’re ordered to cough up a huge pay-out.
Lowlandseer,
Kudos for discovering the 2019 statement. However, it is my opinion that he pulled his punches in 2021. I would have appreciated him utilizing terms like clergy sexual assault or sexual misconduct. Perhaps when he hangs around Russell Moore, he will learn to become more outspoken on this issue. The fight continues as we look at groups like the PCA, with pastors downplaying clergy sexual abuse.
Since you are good at finding these things, have you seen him speaking out against people in the UK like Donald MacLeod, Ian Campbell, and others in the UK? TGC ran this disgusting tribute to MacLeod, overlooking the disturbing history of this man. Donald Macleod (1940–2023): In Memoriam https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/article/donald-macleod-memoriam/
I’m forever grateful to Dee for all the resources on TWW regarding church covenants. When I finally left my church, I copied and pasted the resignation letter (I did add a sentence confirming I was not under church discipline).
In this church’s membership class we were not taught the teaching statement of the church or shown the bylaws. It was years later before I realized that membership gave me no discernible benefits (no vote, etc…) and the elder team (lead pastor plus his disciple) had all decision-making authority.
I’m happy I left.
You are totally right that Dane cried no tears over anything regarding me. But you want to correct the quote! Dane said “Six months in to pastoring and I’m learning a ton. One lesson: My greatest tool in ministry is not my library but my tears.”
He wrote that a few days after he fired me and it was one of his most well liked tweets ever. He’s probably telling the truth. Tears are an effective tool and get the job done.
Dane has brought many people to grief and tears (myself included) yet to my knowledge none of us have ever seen him shed a tear. Whoever is getting the waterworks isn’t those he has hurt.
I remember when I heard this podcast episode two years ago because that imagery was (and remains) spot on. If I see Dane in my neighborhood, I grab the kids and change my route.
Yep, that’s the intent of the standard NeoCal membership covenant in a nutshell … sign on the dotted line and surrender your soul to church leaders (“You can trust us”). Most of them have you sign your spiritual life away by agreeing that the Westminster Confession of Faith (a Reformed confession) constitutes the only system of Biblical truth and that you will adhere to every jot and tittle of it … so sit down and shut up, submit to our authority, no questions allowed … if you leave, we will chase you down, shun you, excommunicate you, and send you to hell, and your little dog, too.
Emily Hyland,
I am so sorry. We covered your story here in https://thewartburgwatch.com/2022/12/14/will-the-real-dane-ortlund-stand-up-is-he-gentle-and-lowly-or-authoritarian-and-pastorcentric/
Max,
I totally agree.
Pastors committing heinous sins can receive (through repentance) God’s grace of forgiveness.
That grace does not mean they should be restored to a ministry position.
One thing that makes me nauseous is when a congregation gives a church leader a standing ovation after he/she has just confessed a terrible, ministry disqualifying sin. The frequency of both of these happening indicate a serious sickness in the American church at large.
The problem, and yes, it is disgusting. Propping up the predators. Not good. Complicit.
Hi Dee, it was your posts that made me aware of church covenants, and I have been referring folks to your site for additional information. Then I met some women who were burned by church covenants, and that drove me into examining all the local churches around here.
As a child/young person in the Lutheran church, I don’t recall a covenant as such–but my parents did have to sign a form indicating that I was contributing 5 cents each week. My dad was rightfully livid about it. Evidently they really needed that 5 cents. Really??
As for Sam Allberry, there were some lurid descriptions about sexual encounters with men. Evidently he got smart and removed them from his web site. This was a number of years ago. I just remembered being sickened by them, and did a double take because I became aware of him through TGC.
I’ve read in several places that he has never had a homosexual encounter, and he wishes he could be married instead of dealing with SSA, something I can certainly understand.
and your little dog, too.
Max,
I like the comparison!!!
One of these days, they’re gonna get what both witches did: A House will fall on them, and their fire will get doused…… their toes will curl and they will melt.
Nancy2(aka Kevlar),
Toto Rocks!
Max,
It is almost universal among “evangelicals” in England now.
Old Timer,
My church has stopped touting membership – probably because I said I’d like to look into having it!
I knew Zacharias was no good (due to what was done to him at age 17) in 2011 and that is based on information Sam Allbery knew well before 2011.
Their circuit is one that most C of E and lots of other denomination churches are affiliated to.
Hand wringing will come into fashion which is conveniently similar to hand washing.
Evangelicals claimed the Bible and they claimed church.
Non evangelicals claim church.
Evangelicals don’t really believe the Bible and they are becoming bolder – in deceptive ways like tinkering with “downloads”.
They were told in 1966 not to claim the church.
Make sure to address wrongs wrongly, because maximum damage causing places limits on damage limitation.
read: unlimited
Max,
In contrast, so much of Christ’s teachings were parables, which, if taken seriously, make you walk away and think about….. just the opposite of submitting to a human “authority” that tell you what to think..
Max,
In fact, this is how all the denominations have become as one – indistinct: the ability of pew goers to mingle at discretion is diluted thereby, while all the leaders form a bloc.
Dominionism goes back to popes, reinforced recently by Bentley and Wagner. New apostolics reinforced the ideology of hierarchicalism in other denominations. Muscular christianity substitutes stoicism and “influencing” for spiritual gifts.
I’ve been round a lot of “different” churches and they are the same! Jesus wanted the churches to vie humbly in example of truth and not get involved in sex * , marriage, sacraments (probably) or power.
{ * The real Bible teaching is merely about the value of situational chastity at personal discretion for making one’s trading of gifts with one’s peers effective. }
To vie humbly in example of truth will make the churches distinct in a natural and not contrived way. If leaders look after their churches properly, ordinary attenders can mingle at discretion.
vs. walking under the authority of Jesus who reveals to you who He is and leads you in paths of righteousness. The phrase “religion vs. relationship” may be overworked, but that’s exactly the issue. To which authority will you submit? It makes all the difference as you walk out your Christian experience on earth … will you be bound by the teachings and traditions of men or walk freely in Christ? … is the essence of your Christianity based on doctrinal propositions about grace or a direct experience of Grace, a personal encounter with the Living Christ?
Ahhh … yet another form of child abuse … taking money from a child! I suppose it was a trick by church leaders to get kids in the habit of contributing to the work of church, to stimulate a tithing attitude for later years … but come on! Within SBC, kids had offering envelopes to bring from home to put small change in and drop in a box at Sunday School … but, at least, it was a freewill offering!
Forgive them if they repent? Absolutely. Restore them to the pulpit? Absolutely not! They have permanently disqualified themselves from that sacred office, IMO. There are other places for the penitent to serve in the Body of Christ.
In Church as Entertainment, the audience applauds … in the Real Church, believers agonize.
Everything birthed in America eventually ends up in Europe. Sorry.
Crying on cue?
On and off like a light switch?
“YEAH! IT’S GOOD TO BE THE KING!”
— Mel Brooks, History of the World, Part One
And those that do, take it deep into Woo-Woo Land.
“Just like Shirley MacLaine, Except CHRISTIAN(TM)!”
Crying on cue?
On and off like a light switch?
Headless Unicorn Guy,
Yeah. That’s one of the things good actors get paid to do, while pretending to be something they are not.
dee,
I’m not quite sure how to answer you. Not many church leaders publicly offered their views on the late Professor Macleod or Rev Iain D Campbell. Those who did (mainly other Free Church men), particularly in the former’s case, had good grounds for expressing their concern about alleged impropriety but they lost their case in court. The result caused much pain to all parties and ultimately led to a split in the denomination which no doubt grieved the Lord Himself. As for the memorial/appreciation by Hunter Nicholson, there is an oblique reference to events in it but there was no need for him to go into all the details again. I thought the appreciation was restrained and circumspect, not disturbing. It’s a cultural thing.
Ava Aaronson,
But back to Sam Allberry. He was clear in his condemnation both in the article you quoted from and in the one I mentioned and he won’t need any advice from Russell Moore unless he wants to dabble in politics. 🙂
He certainly wasn’t “propping up” “the predators”, Ava.
Absolutely! God does not need them or their gifts to advance His kingdom. These disqualified pastors would do well to consider the humble response of British politician, John Profumo, after he was involved in his own scandal.
The ability to cry without tears must be a trick they learn in seminary.
It’s obvious that most of these characters use their “talents” (not spiritual gifts) to advance ‘their’ kingdoms. With a touch of charisma, a gift of gab, and a bag of gimmicks, anyone can become a successful celebrity “pastor” (a working knowledge of the Bible is helpful, but not required).
Sounds like they all all in cahoots to downplay/ignore abuse and protect themselves, the institution, and men:
https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/ray-ortlund/the-peace-of-christ/
From Ray Orlando’s article:
“ Never mount a campaign to correct those who wronged you. The Bible says, “Beloved, never avenge yourselves, but leave it to the wrath of God” (Rom. 12:19). The wrath of God is all the wrath this world needs. It would be nice if unjust people finally owned up. But they don’t have the self-awareness to do that, which is what makes them unjust in the first place. They will never see it until God opens their blind eyes. But he will. And only he can. If you appoint yourself the one to open their eyes, you are putting yourself in the place of God—which is what your abuser did to you. Don’t let your abuser make you an abuser. Sit tight, and trust in the Lord.”
A guy like this always either claims it was consensual, or says the woman threw herself at him. Either way, they’re just men doing what men inevitably do… or so we are to believe.
I just don’t know any men like this, apart from a few gropers and assailants.
Not if they Absolutely Have to be the Guy On Top, GOD’s Speshul Anointed One.
“Better to Rule in Hell than Serve is Heaven!”
— John Milton, Paradise Lost
Max,
On the contrary. Manifest Destiny was a bad English idea before it was a bad American idea (I still don’t get any reaction from your side of the pond when I name that phrase). If you want to see what burned-over country looks like, look here.
The real tragedy is that agnostics of goodwill who used to be the main pillar of society here, have had the ground stolen from under their feet by the not even half-baked “new atheists” and their identical twin “theists” simultaneously.
“Allberry was one of the main speakers with Ravi Zacharias. He shut down people who tried to tell him that there was a problem. He has since apologized, sort of, for his role in that debacle. When I heard about his apology, ‘I didn’t know!’ I wondered why this bright man didn’t initiate a quick review of RZ. I did in 2015 and knew discovered there was a problem. Folks, it isn’t that hard! Allberry does it again with this post. He quotes a guy who has some baggage. Then again, Dane, Sam, and Ray are all part of TGC, are bonded, and trust each other. No need to read about the negative stuff, right?”
Colleagues that are silent about colleagues while they side with some other victims of others, are complicit in their silence while virtue signaling in their condemnation or advocacy with these some other victims.
The SBC hired Denhollander. Strategic, it seems, as the SBC ghosts their own BFFs’ victims. Denhollander exposed a doctor for the Olympics, not a pastor.
Christian leadership could clean house but left the details to the Houston Chronicle’s “Abuse of Faith”.
Apparently Christian leaders are pretty much connected. What are they afraid of? Or, are they just bored with the daily news of predatory religious leaders?
One of these guys could do a blog like TWW and make a difference: “A Pastor Exposes Predatory Pastors: Send Your Stories, Let Truth Abound.”
“The more like Jesus pastors are, the more trustworthy they’ll become.”
++++++++++++
i’m curious what this is.
to me, it’s one of those silly putty things. you can form it into any number of shapes and make it do different things.
(either for dumb reasons or self-serving reasons)
i’ve observed “be more like Jesus” to be any number of caricatures:
-be a docile doormat
-or smiley drippy syrup
-or purposely losing or doing poorly at golf, cards, picnic games, etc.
-be like that “wrestling” show my son was watching.
-or Melvin Udall-Jesus (the caricature of rude unbridled, from Jack Nicholsons’s character in “As Good As It Gets”).
.
.
christian culture is one identity crisis after another, just like junior high.
objectively, if one were to write a thesis on the subject, what does “be more like Jesus” actually mean?
R,
“Seriously, how does he know why the woman pulled her kid back? Maybe she was just afraid he was a freak because he was out wearing a robe in public.”
++++++++++++++++
creatures (animals, people) are subconsciously cautious around their kind who look or act different.
someone dressed in clerical robes looks (& likely acts) different.
but that is the point of wearing clerical robes in public.
Nancy2(aka Kevlar),
“It would be nice if unjust people finally owned up. But they don’t have the self-awareness to do that…”-Ray Ortlund, pastor
+++++++++++
the state of hypocrisy unawares
the irony is too much.
the unaware Unawareness Police, caught unawares
i’ve got my reason Christian pastors have become less trustworthy in society.
In other words, if “pastor” abuses you, keep your mouth shut. Forgive and forget, move on. Don’t inform and warn others, this ain’t none of their business.
In the meantime, Scripture (not “pastor”) advises believers to correct and rebuke when necessary (1 Timothy 4:2). Paul wrote this to Timothy as preaching instruction, but is applicable to all “priests” (believers = a royal priesthood).
Or it gets weaponized and launched at you like a mortar round cuz’ you’re not being like ‘Jesus’.
Anybody who’s been on the receiving end knows exactly what I’m talking about.
Muff Potter,
“be more like jesus…it gets weaponized”
+++++++++++++++++++
indeed.
objectively, if one were to write a thesis on the subject, what does “be more like Jesus” actually mean?
care to take a stab at it?
CynthiaW.,
Conjuror = manipulator of souls.
I ask you: irritability PLUS associating with embezzlers PLUS colossal public profile especially in Britain = DEFINITELY pull your child out of the way !!!
Is he ever walking to something not a masquerade?
These people talk “manglewurzle” on purpose – like Pilavachi (and hierarchical backers for his irregular doctrinal fingering) – look bad to look good (business modelling), to show that we are just like them.
It was at a (low) C of E church that I used to get patted down by married women I didn’t know; “but we were only being friendly”. And a similar one where George who blocked the door did horrible things to everybody’s hands (he wasn’t dealt with till years after I left).
TGC: The Gospel According to ChoMos.
That’s a hard one.
Lemme think about it.
“They have never left High School. They will never leave High School. And they will never, ever let any of us leave Their High School.”
Like that Mormon Goodwife who wrote Twilight and started the whole Sexy Sparklepire thing. In one of her sequels, her Author Self-Insert gets “embraced” into sparklepirism so she can stay in High School forever. (Holding court at the Kewl Kids table with her Sparkling Eddie forever.)
And Twilight begat a LOT of fanfic, including a kinkfic called 50 Shades of Grey. And its sequels.
Dee, you raise a very good point. Sexual abuse by a trusted authority is an exceptionally great evil.
The word “affair” doesn’t begin to cover it. It is a totally different category.
The pastor who sexually abuses a parishioner is committing multiple offenses against God, the victim, and the church.
The sexual immorality itself is sinful. The abuse of trust and manipulation of those under his care is another matter.
The word “affair” doesn’t even honestly address the sexual immorality aspect of the crime. The Bible doesn’t use the word “affair”. It uses words like adultery, fornication, sexual immorality, and whoring.
The abuse of authority is a betrayal and a breaking of covenant.
We have to be honest when we discuss sin.
I really wonder if a majority of evangelical pastors (including Reformed Calvinist types – which I also believe by the way) might not end up in hell, having never truly repented and believed Jesus Christ.
Art out West,
Thank you for your kind comment.
Except for signing in blood, isn’t that the classic shtick of a Deal with the Devil?
“She looked like she’d made a deal with the Devil and the payment was a-comin’ due.”