The death of a star. NASA
“Few delights can equal the presence of one whom we trust utterly.” George MacDonald
Dane Ortlund is the son of Ray Ortlund Jr, who has been quite big in the Calvinist Revival circles. I have written about him off and on. According to his bio:
Dr. Dane Ortlund is on the planet to enjoy the endless grace of God and to invite others to join him there. He’s a pastor, author, and speaker, currently serving as Senior Pastor of Naperville Presbyterian Church outside Chicago after a decade in non-profit publishing at Crossway.
He is best known for his well-received book: Gentle and Lowly: The Heart of Christ for Sinners and Sufferers. This book received over 10,000 5-star ratings. It is described on Amazon:
Pastor Dane Ortlund Explores Jesus’s Heart to Reveal His Tender Love for Sinners and Suffers
Christians know that God loves them, but can easily feel that he is perpetually disappointed and frustrated, maybe even close to giving up on them. As a result, they focus a lot―and rightly so―on what Jesus has done to appease God’s wrath for sin. But how does Jesus Christ actually feel about his people amid all their sins and failures?
This book draws us to Matthew 11, where Jesus describes himself as “gentle and lowly in heart,” longing for his people to find rest in him. The gospel flows from God’s deepest heart for his people, a heart of tender love for the sinful and suffering.
These chapters take us into the depths of Christ’s very heart for sinners, diving deep into Bible passages that speak of who Christ is and encouraging readers with the affections of Christ for his people. His longing heart for sinners comforts and sustains readers in their up-and-down lives.
Although I have not read the book, I have heard it discussed as a book that has helped many people. So when I read the following tweets by Ortlund. I experienced some cognitive dissonance. It is easy to write about the love of Jesus for sinners. It is another thing to share it with others. He seems to blame people for their frustrations, leading them to leave the church. Since he is the pastor of a church currently in the news, I might have suggested that he quote from his book instead of revealing his frustrations with people in the church. Is he speaking about the people in his own church?
Once again, Ortlund appears to be pastorcentric, giving rules for sitting in church. This seems far away from his acclaimed book. So, who is the real Dane Ortlund? Right now, he sounds like his father.
Ortlund again focuses on his unhappiness with some folks in his church.
There was some pushback towards Ortlund, who seemed a bit off of his Gentle and Lowly game. A couple of these tweets have been deleted. Was this pushback the reason why he signed off Twitter? Probably not.
The Mahaney connection.
Dane Ortlund and Ray were part of the cheerleading squad for Mahaney until the bitter end. This alone makes me wonder about the Gentle and Lowly mantle worn by Ortlund.
There is trouble at Naperville Presbyterian Church.
Dane Ortlund is the senior pastor. Christianity Today published: State Finds’ Substantial Evidence’ of Retaliation at Illinois Church: “A firing at Dane Ortlund’s Naperville Presbyterian Church spurred a rare legal determination that could be a useful case study for churches.”
The former director of operations at Naperville Presbyterian Church, Emily Hyland, said her termination came days after privately complaining to two elders about gender discrimination from Ortlund. At the time, she had worked at the church for eight years, and he had been senior pastor for six months. After her firing, she filed charges over gender discrimination and retaliation at the state agency.
The Illinois Department of Human Rights (IDHR) did not find evidence that the church or Ortlund discriminated against her based on her gender. Evidence shows that “Ortlund … never made any discriminatory remarks directly related to [Hyland’s] sex,” the report said, nor was there evidence of discrimination that rose to the level of a “hostile work environment.”
But the agency found “substantial evidence” that she was fired “in retaliation for having engaged in prior protected activity.”
This finding by the agency is significant.
Employment disputes are common, but this case might offer useful lessons for churches in similar disputes–both in terms of legal complexity and in terms of navigating pastoral care of a terminated staffer who is also a church member. Employment lawyers say it’s rare for an agency to issue a finding of substantial evidence of retaliation, making Hyland’s case a significant one.
The longest-serving elder left the church over this action.
One of the two elders who fired Hyland alongside Ortlund, Dave Veerman, said he regretted the handling of the firing and said he should have listened to Hyland before taking action. When Ortlund became the pastor, Veerman was excited, he said, because he liked Ortlund’s writing and teaching. Now, Veerman told CT, “I tend to believe Emily’s side of things,” though he thinks Ortlund “wants to do the right thing.”
Did the “session” drop the ball, or are they all the “king’s men?”
You can substitute elders for the session, which is the Presbyterian word. I have a question. Ortlund comes across as bull-headed in his tweets. He had only been at the church for six months. It is not unusual for certain pastors to fire personnel to make way for their friends. Could this be what is happening here?
After her firing, Hyland also brought her complaints about Ortlund to the local presbytery in the Chicago area, which investigated. The presbytery concluded in a private action this fall that “the reports from Emily Hyland do not create a strong presumption of guilt against the character” of Ortlund. The presbytery report focused on her professional performance issues as justification for her firing.
Hyland said no one had complained about her work or behavior before Ortlund joined the staff. The firing was devastating to her personally. “It was so catastrophic to lose all my Christian community in Naperville,” she said. “Just gone.”
The presbytery said her legal actions following her firing created a “challenging environment” for church leadership to provide her with “pastoral care.”
Another elder, who has struggled to transition to a new church and asked not to be named, said he felt pushed out of the church after he helped Hyland remove some of her office items from the church following her firing. He said Ortlund was angry with him about helping her move and questioned him extensively about it.
If these statements are factual, I could imagine that Ortlund was cleaning house, Calvinista style. Similar stories were told in my series on Chapel Hill Bible Church.
Her “unwillingness to grow” was the problem. This is nonsense or a more precise term, “gobbledygook.”
In the church’s responses to charges in the state investigation, Ortlund stated the elders believed the “reality” was different than Hyland’s characterizations and that her “unwillingness to grow” made it impossible to continue working together.
Of course, they tried to get her to sign an NDA. She didn’t. Yay!
The Roys Report posted Investigation Finds Author; Pastor Dane Ortlund Likely Retaliated Against Church Employee.
She indicated she was told her termination was the “will of the session”—or the body of elders overseeing a Presbyterian church—and the reason was communication.
Hyland wrote that she was offered severance on condition that she sign a non-disparagement agreement (NDA). She added that she refused to sign it.
She claims Ortlund told people not to contact her.
It seems possible that Ortlund learned how to “shun Mahaney style.”
After Hyland was fired, she wrote, Ortlund told other staff, church deacons and elders not to contact her. And an elder who helped her clean out her office was removed from the session soon after, according to Hyland.
“I lost my job, my friendships, my relationships with my co-workers, my reputation, and the home where I had worshiped for so long,” Hyland wrote.
If these accounts are accurate, Mr. Gentle and Lowly could be Mr. Pastorcentric and Authoritarian. The next move is Hyland’s.
Hyland could start a complaint with the state’s Human Rights Commission or file a civil lawsuit against the church based on the finding, according to the IDHR. She told TRR she hasn’t decided yet what she’s going to do.
We’ll keep you posted.
Pastorcentric. It’s a thing.
It’s also an oxymoron. One is not pastoring (others) if one is centered on oneself.
There are 18 gifts of the Holy Spirit to the church. One gift is pastoring. If a pastor is in a leadership position, is the pastor valuing, recognizing, and facilitating the other 17 gifts? Or is church a function of: all resources go to the pastor, and the pastor then is in charge of everything?
From the main article up-top:
“I lost my job, my friendships, my relationships with my co-workers, my reputation, and the home where I had worshiped for so long,” Hyland wrote.
Friends?
Believe me, people like that Are Not Your Friends.
They never were.
That’s the game plan.
Let’s face it, ‘churches’ like that are dictatorships.
This is my church so I feel I can clarify a couple of mistakes in this write up! Dave, the elder, left for reasons unrelated – that is even stated in the original story by CT. Also, Pastor Ortlund is not new to the church. He is a long time member.
(This isn’t criticism of you btw, I love your blog, I just happen to have this info!)
Overall, I’m really sad about all of this. Please be in prayer for our elders and congregation. It’s just not what we were expecting going into the most joyful part of the church calendar.
That’s the gist of it in many churches.
“It is not unusual for certain pastors to fire personnel to make way for their friends. “
The good ole boys club.
Thank you for a great but very troubling write up.
“…though he (Dave Veerman, former elder) thinks Ortlund “wants to do the right thing.”
“Ortlund stated … her “unwillingness to grow” made it impossible to continue working together.”
++++++++++++++++++++++
so, a few observations:
somehow in the last 25-30 years, the pastor industry has lost (and reversed) some of its ethical moorings, embracing arrogant misogynistic jerkery as godly and biblical — as the right thing.
shamelessly so – with a clean conscience as if they are model citizens and God is very pleased with their behavior.
apparently even as far as redefining these words to be compatible with humble and lowly.
perhaps cloaking it all in ‘niceness’ and christianese language deceives even them.
.
.
not me.
i’m not sure how many parts unaware, confused, self-entitled, and stupid make up these men.
i marvel that this is what Jesus’ namesake religion produces. how can it be??
.
.
as for that ‘opportunity to grow’, even that has been redefined to mean ‘become a submissive doubleplus unperson’.
although i highly doubt emily hyland was even given that ‘opportunity’. i think Dane switched to ‘corporate speak’ and simply lied (sort of to himself, too).
“somehow in the last 25-30 years, the pastor industry has lost (and reversed) some of its ethical moorings”
+++++++++++++++
an expectation that the pastor is on a elevated plane and should not be questioned by the lowly rest of the church is biblical leadership — it is the right thing to do
.
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ignoring women and taking away their sphere of power and influence is godly, and part of biblical manhood and leadership — it is the right thing to do
.
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firing a female employee who expects to be treated with the same dignity as her male peers and who speaks up in confrontation when she is not is part of godly, biblical leadership — it is the right thing to do
.
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expecting unquestioning support and loyalty from the elders and staff for these beliefs and actions is godly, biblical leadership — it is the right thing to do.
.
.
getting rid of people (as if they are merely annoying weeds) who confront, challenge, and do not show unquestioning support and loyalty to ‘me’ the pastor is ‘my’ godly & biblical right — it is the right thing to do.
.
.
i, as pastor, operating with absolute power can’t possibly be cruel for others because it is godly, biblical leadership — it is the right thing to do.
.
.
Dane Ortlund, what’s wrong with you???
Elders of Napier Presbyterian Church, what’s wrong with you??
A couple of random questions for Dane Ortlund, based on his tweets:
1. Why do you call a sermon a “preaching event?”
2. When you “occasionally rip out a weed” is that the same as “throwing someone under a bus?” How many weeds/dead bodies is the godliest amount?
Get back to me, please. I’ll go make popcorn.
Again, church should NEVER comprise your entire social life or support crew. NEVER.
Cling to Jesus, throw the preacher under the bus if he isn’t living up to his calling, hang out with true friends.
Why expect dead (spiritually dead) people in an organization operating in ways clearly forbidden in the Bible to be heaven on earth?
What a wonderful term. You make very good observations.
I have not read his book but it has been on my Amazon wish list as a book I thought might be helpful. I think maybe his actions now are speaking louder than his written words. I’m taking it off my book list
For this one, anonymous,
Thank you for your comment. I think things change when a person becomes a pastor. This particularly happens if one is steeped in the authoritarian culture of the “We are calvinsts” resurgence. Once these. folks become pastors, the real inner “I am the pastor” comes to the top and things begin to happen. It used to be theoretical and observational for me until I watched Chapel Hill Bible Church take a 180 and stopped being the incredible and thoughtful church I remember.
I am sorry for what is going on in your church.at the moment. However, it is Christmas and God always wins.
I had a good laugh over this one.
Ted,
Dee,
The comment about ripping out weeds led me to the ‘wheat and the tares’ parable of Jesus which appears in Matthew 13:24–43. The parable relates how servants eager to pull up weeds were warned that in so doing they would root out the wheat as well and were told to let both grow together until the harvest.
I think the weed pulling is supposed to be left to God, the just judge
“Dr. Dane Ortlund is on the planet to enjoy the endless grace of God …”
“Pastoring a church is like watering a garden. Patience, tenderness, gradual change, gentle care – and occasionally rip out a weed.”
Ortlund apparently is like most New Calvinist “pastors”, who distort the “endless grace of God” … preferring to rip out weeds that don’t fit in their garden rather than exercising patience, tenderness and gentle care. You will know them by their fruit, not their words. These folks talk a lot about grace … grace-this and grace-that … but don’t appear to know Grace at all.
“I am humble” (Mahaney)
“I am gentle and lowly” (Ortlund)
“I want to break your nose” (Driscoll)
Which New Calvinist comes closer to the real stand up?
As opposed to Christocentric. The New Calvinists have done a sly job of moving the needle on how we are to view faith and doing church. The authority and influence of Jesus is almost non-existent in most NeoCal churches … they have substituted their own authoritarian my-way-or-the-highway overlord system without ‘the’ Lord.
“Small ways to encourage your pastor during the preaching event”
What kinds of public speakers need this type of encouragement other than “dear leader” dictators? A person who needs to emphasize this should not be a pastor.
Ava, I’ve been a Christian for 70+ years and have “preached” that sermon for most of that period. Few are listening. A true pastor will recognize, equip, and enable ALL the spiritual gifts in the Body of Christ (regardless of race, class or gender) and mobilize them to fulfill the Great Commission together. As you note, the office of pastor is but one gift given to the church, only one spoke in the wheel, only one player on the team. But finding a pastor and church that resemble the Biblical model is like looking for a needle in a haystack, a rare and endangered species, a treasure buried in a field.
Print it and stick this on your refrigerator folks!
Someone Virtue-Signalling how Gentle & Lowly(TM) he is should be approached like a country Virtue-Signalling how People’s Democratic they are in their official name.
“The more adjectives about Democracy in a country’s official name, the nastier a Dictatorship it is.”
— TV Tropes, “People’s Republic of Tyranny”
“The greater the Righteousness, the greater the Perversion.”
— comment thread on one of these blogs (about yet another Pedo Pastor)
And both are specific examples of “The Louder the Pious Virtue-Signalling, the greater the Corruption.”
Which is why this Romish Papist has never been in awe of Priests.
To me, they’re just Specialists in the Body of Christ.
As Many as Necessary.
And no matter how many mass graves you fill, it will NEVER be enough.
He GAWD’s Anointed and He KNOWS it.
Never underestimate the Ego and Arrogance of GAWD’s Speshul Pets. It’s literally Impossible.
How can you ever feel “shame” when YOU CAN DO NO WRONG? Because GAWD SAITH!
And not only GAWD’s Speshul Pet, but Predestined Elect – GAWD’s Speshul Pet from before the creation of the world, with a pre-stamped Get Out of Hell Free Card for him and himself alone. No Matter What He Does. No Matter How He Acts.
Who Needs Christ when you have CALVIN?
CALVIN who alone Has God All Figured Out –
How Dare God think or do anything other than what CALVIN Hath Predestined Him To Do?
I’m not surprised. You should read Gentle and Lowly. Despite Christians (Reformed, probably) enjoying it, I found it awful, very Calvinist and Puritan. Both groups who excluded and killed Others. The book was total worm theology. Also his father being part of biblical manhood and womanhood, not surprised by the discrimination toward a woman.
Headless Unicorn Guy,
“they’re just Specialists in the Body of Christ.”
++++++++++++
but are they?
i see men dressing up in funny hats (either literal or figurative) and thinking it makes them special and powerful. (well, whatever it takes)
or men behaving like Buzz Lightyear (“SpaceRanger“), member of the elite Universe Protection Unit from Gamma Quadrant of Sector 4, protecting the galaxy from the threat of invasion from the Evil Emperor Zurg, sworn enemy of the Galactic Alliance.
And thinking the little lightbulb that blinks on his arm is a laser.
Or really, like my son when he was 3 and what happened to his personality when he put on his spandex batman costume with muscles made of sponge.
I agree.
elastigirl does have a way with words.
Grace that is mediated by another human is not grace.
Muff Potter,
This is a good point… maybe I am just to subbern/arrogant/etc., but I can not imagine letting a chuch tell me to “not communicate with X”. On what “authority” can they say this?? Now, there examples in the NT of people being “thrown out” for immorality… but no one has said she was immoral???
The “authority” that these clowns claim is just mind boggling to me..
For this one, anonymous,
“Overall, I’m really sad about all of this. Please be in prayer for our elders and congregation. It’s just not what we were expecting going into the most joyful part of the church calendar.”
+++++++++++++++++
i understand. i felt similar things in past churches when stuff would happen. I really grew to like/love the pastor and the church as a whole was a place to belong, feel good in, and feel safe.
until it wasn’t, and i saw the manipulative & unethical things that were happening.
————-
anonymous, why is your first impulse to solicit prayer for the elders and congregation?
it’s hard not to see emily hyland as the one who took the devastating blows. as the one understandably hurting the most. who was treated very poorly, excruciatingly so, in her experience perhaps illegally.
why is she not your first concern? words matter and have a way of betraying truths.
.
.
————————-
a huge problem in church culture is giving automatic and unquestioning favor and benefit of the doubt to the pastor.
and not being ready, willing or even able to consider what an aggrieved party has to say on a matter.
but instead disappearing them.
(seems to me your pastor took active steps to make sure she disappeared, forbidding staff/elders to contact her & creating a threatening atmosphere if anyone disobeyed, to some degree making an example of the elder who helped her clean out her office.)
because the pastor is always right… because…. well, because he just is.
because we love our church/social club, where we see our friends, how it benefits our life, and don’t want to upset its apple cart.
the hurting person, well, they were disappeared so outta sight outta mind.
we know what’s important to us so please pray for us.
.
.
that’s how it appears. from your comment as well as other comments i’ve seen from people at Napier Presbyterian Church.
elastigirl,
like the maffia. but nice and no blood.
because of what we get out of it.
Muff Potter,
“Friends?
Believe me, people like that Are Not Your Friends.
They never were.”
+++++++++++++++++++++
well, it’s just like middle school, isn’t it.
or 2nd grade.
“we can’t be your friend anymore because billie said so.”
such people are not worthy of friendship. aside from situational immaturity and regressed character development.
.’
.
the shunning folks at napier presbyterian (cuz dane said so) can always make things right, though.
and perhaps redeem their ability & right to be a friend.
Bridget,
edit functions would be lovely . . . alas
FreshGrace,
Hadn’t got to your comment yet when I made mine above. We are thinking on the same lines.
Amen!
“For there is only one God, and only one Mediator between God and mankind, the Man Christ Jesus” (1 Timothy 2:5)
Too many churches peddle cheap grace, blocking the flow of real Grace. Too many pastors usurp the authority and influence of Christ and substitute their own.
Within New Calvinism, anyone who challenges pulpit teachings, who question if what the pastor is saying is truth, who call out aberrant belief and practice … would be considered a weed by NeoCal pastors.
The Bereans would not be welcome in NeoCal churches for they “examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true” (Acts 17:11).
“
Linda, unfortunately you nailed in when you suggested that church people shouldn’t be your entire support group or social life. I’ve had close friends outside of my church for years. At first it was unintentional. Now it’s a permanent decision. Sadly, I don’t trust many “Christians” either personally or professionally.
It can only go well for women leaders in male-led, complementarian churches UNTIL she claims or presumes functional equality in the administration of the church, particularly in the day-to-day direction of ministries and use of church resources. When she colors outside the lines in actual, functional leadership in a complementarian church, all without permission from the males, she should do so with her bags packed.
And yet, predators, perverts, pedophiles – could be weeded out of the church for good measure, in good conscience with excellent results of safety for the vulnerable.
Interesting that all the weed-pulling pastors BFF or at the very least they give a pass to the predators, perverts, & pedos.
OTHO, pastors don’t give pause to the well-being of the vulnerable. For so many pastors: church, church viability, and church sustainability, are all about them: loyalty to them, resources for them, and serving them with their “vision” which is their enterprise.
The New Testament turns the tables on this, just as Jesus angrily turned the tables of the money changers in the Temple.
A pastor’s vision is not the function of the church. Nor are churches to collect for and serve church leadership. The gifts of the Holy Spirit are not to be bought. The Gospel is never sold.
But the needy? The church is to care for each other, the least of the least (“anawim”) first.
“Anawim (pronounced ann-a-weem) is a Hebrew word from the Old Testament which describes the ‘poor ones’ who remained faithful to God in times of difficulty. These humble people became known as the anawim or the ‘faithful remnant’.”
Ruth is a good example of the anawim. She was poor and destitute through no fault of her own. She worked, she looked to God for her answers, she faithfully took care of her loved ones (her mother-in-law, also anawim), and she was neither a beggar nor codependent.
Caring for others can seem to be a black hole of need in our world. However, faithful to God and faithfully loving our neighbors as ourselves should never be a black hole. Where God guides, He provides.
The real black hole would be closer to church entities putting on extravagant pageantry via donations & free labor & tickets charged, or collecting for pastors’ planes and such.
Of course they are! Just ask them!
Or you probably don’t even have to ask them, because if you spend more than ten minutes with them, they will tell you. Loudly. Over and over.
Maybe back you into a corner and refuse to let you leave to force you to listen.
Yes, this has happened to me in real life. More than twice.
Gentle and lowly…..in their heads only.
When rubber meets the road, “pastorcentric” (or “pastor lead” in my former church) is all about who is in control. Certainly it is not Christ nor the Father, nor the Holy Spirit.
Any objection to “pastorcentric” is going to “slow” the growth of church down because the pastor has to get everybody on board. Damn the working of Holy Spirit through the whole body.
One part of Jesus’ temptation in the desert was to relinquish controlling outcome to his favor.
I found the correct answer:
“There is a pile of dead bodies behind the Mars Hill bus, and by God’s grace, it’ll be a mountain by the time we’re done.” —Mark Driscoll
A mountain. A mountain is the correct answer.
Best illustration of the day right there.
The best, most real-deal, humble, loving, faithful Christians I have known in my life have not been pastors. Certainly, I have known a few pastors like that over my 70+ year tenure in church … but those following Christ in everyday life, behind the scenes, who know Jesus and are known by Him have been folks in the pew.
Made me think of the pic of Mr. Cool in the recent TWW piece about “Pastor” Mike Lee … the old man in his skinny jeans and cowboy boots, at his wedding with a new younger wife, was over the top. Whew, I don’t ever want to see a pic of him in a spandex batman costume!
So we have another jerk turned pastor behaving badly. Narcissism on display of the malignant subtype. Leverage God in order to have the power to abuse. Let the discerning know that you are an inner agnostic who just does not care rather or not there will be a judgment for them. All these types are of the same spirit and it ain’t The Holy One.
And given the massive amount of plagiarism these days you can hardly trust that just because someone claims to write something good that it actually came from them. More than likely it was just stolen. And I have not read his book, but just because people like something does not mean that it is good in the sight of God or true. Things men love are detestable in the eyes of God. I note the one comment that claims the book is a flaming pile of @(*!
Jesus can be known by common ordinary people. The most important thing is to know Him in the first person. I have found Jesus to be extreme. His grace and mercy and kindness and patience are extreme for those who choose to put their faith in Him. His justice is extreme and we will all see this in regards to those who knowingly trample His grace underfoot. They will suffer fates worse than anything that men have been able to do to other men in the name of justice.
Max,
ha!
I think the people that, sadly, feature here and the seminaries they come from really think behaviourism and codependency are the highest values “God” ever gave.
Pastorcentric … that really is at the root of the wayward church in America, isn’t it … Pastorcentric, rather than Christocentric … which always ends in a mess of some sort.
“I’M YOUNG! I’M YOUNG! I’M YOUNG! REALLY! I AM! I’M YOUNG! I’M YOUNG! I’M YOUNG!”
Classic mid-life crisis straight out of a cartoon – dress like a kid, trade in your used wife for a new trophy model, and disappear into the sunset in your bought-on-credit Lamborghini yelling “I GOTTA BE MEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!”
I actually saw one guy go through a mid-life crisis that spectacular – even more extreme than that – WHEN HE TURNED 30! Apparently at 30 he was OLD and had to prove he wasn’t by a constant parade of sex sex sex partners visibly younger than him (and not gender-specific). At 30…
My mid-life crisis (at 55, not 30) was mild in contrast; just traded in my econobox on a 96 Del Sol and started watching a lot of My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic. A lot less destructive.
Again, like “People’s Democratic” in the official name of a Third World Dictatorship.
Rank Hath Its Privilege, Lowborn.
Especially when bestowed by Divine Right, Predestined by GAWD before the Foundation of the World.
dee,
Thank you, Dee <3 and thanks for your thoughts/input.
elastigirl,
Hey, just wanted to quickly reply to this – I wasn’t saying don’t pray for her Emily, it seems clear to me she needs prayer and comfort. I am newer to the church and feel completely blindsided by the situation as do many others in my circles. I’m just thinking of the days ahead – who will be or has been hurt in this situation and what they will do going forward. People will leave the church and often when something like this happens it causes people to leave the faith altogether and that makes me really sad for my fellow congregants. I didn’t mean the comment selfishly or with vitriol towards Ms. Hyland. I just ask for prayers for a few hundred people who are left with making choices.
From the Twitter reply “contentment is not about the restaurant, it’s about me”
I was acquainted with pastor-turned-frugal-gourmet Jeff Smith. Our last meal at his restaurant wasn’t contenting due to service/food from hell warmed over. The whole time he hob-nobbed with important people over a glasses of wine rather than lifting a finger. When we complained, he said Oh no! You shouldn’t feel that way! Dining is meant to be a wondrous slpunderous relaxing experience. You might give yourselves indigestion or unhealth or something!
He was also the boss from hell. My friend worked for him and went from assistant bottle washer to chief cook in 3 months due to everyone quitting.
Michael in UK,
Over the last many years, i’ve been amazed at the degree to which christianity turns co-dependency into religious practice.
turns co-dependency into godliness, “real” manhood, biblical womanhood, and biblical leadership.
it’s quite a sight to behold.
christianity is what people make of it.
Max,
Max, a seasoned aged no name pastor in yesterday’s generation once mention to me that if there were any major church decisions, he would seek the Holy Spirit to work through the congregation even if it took time. He would look for unity and peace of the whole congregation in general. This is because he believes HS speaks to the whole body not just him.
Swore-Sweet Dayes,
Praise God for that pastor; he would be a rare and endangered species in today’s church. We need to pray for a new generation of such Spirit-led pastors to enter American pulpits … the current bunch ain’t scaring the devil much.
Yet another example of “the great and the good” being great in their own minds and good only in their carefully crafted public persona.
It is so tiresome.
How does Jesus measure greatness?
“The more lowly your service to others, the greater you are. To be the greatest, be a servant. But those who think themselves great shall be disappointed and humbled; and those who humble themselves shall be exalted.” (Matthew 23:11-12 TLB)
There was the church where they wouldn’t tell me what the row was about. Six months later, someone told me “the nasty people have left”: that was when I left.
It looks as if he’s forgotten what he wrote in 2012 for TGC on resentment.
“ What causes such bitterness? How do our hearts become so immovably deadened toward that person?
They wronged you, so you resent them. They hurt you. They did what they should never have done. Or didn’t do what they should have done. And you bear the wounds.”
Or more recently what he wrote in his acclaimed book,
But what’s the reason beneath the reason? The fundamental reason is your God-given sense of justice—-itself a good thing. You have been wronged, and you, created in God’s image and therefore with a rightly functioning sense of justice, of fairness, cry out that justice be done. The playing field must be leveled. Fairness demands it.
The trouble is that as a law-abiding citizen you know you can’t do something physically to them, as you may wish to (let’s just be honest here). And as a Christian you know you can’t verbally or publicly do something to them (perhaps simply because you would rather keep your reputation and leave them alone than exact revenge and lose your reputation; the greater idol outweighs the lesser).
So what happens? Where does a gospel-vacuous heart go in such a case? Instead of doing something externally to harm them you do something internally to harm them. You harbor bitterness. This is the psychology of resentment. You exercise emotional punishment toward them internally when actual punishment can’t be exercised externally. You set up a law-court in your heart, since an actual law-court is unfeasible.”
Or this “ Jesus is not trigger-happy. Not harsh, reactionary, easily exasperated.
He is the most understanding person in the universe.
The posture most natural to Him is not a pointed finger but open arms.”
For this one, anonymous,
Hi, anonymous.
I appreciate the response.
I believe you. And understand the sad and hurting things you describe.
Thank you in advance for putting up with me.
What matters more? The institution or the hurting person? The one bulldozed by the institution, for the sake of the institution.
For the sake of some twisted, cruel version of biblical that is many levels beneath common decency & kindness as practiced by atheists and agnostics everywhere. And many levels beneath humane professionalism as practiced by dread secular workplaces.
As i see it, the chief tenet of faith of the current iteration of ‘christianity’ is the ends justifies the means.
The so-called “mission” is more important than the individual.
I think Jesus said and did the opposite, in a variety of different creative ways.
But as to “the mission”, really, when you boil it all down, the brass tacks at the bottom of the pot, it’s the preservation of the institution. The industry. The network of interdependent careers & revenue streams.
And the net result of all that is that human beings are expendable. Collateral damage. The cost of doing business.
Mere weeds to pull and throw away with relative ease.
The inconvenient ones (not the ones with resources to be exploited. certainly not the yes-men a pastor may have surrounded himself with).
The human beings who don’t fit the mold. Who are icky and make us uncomfortable. Who are threats to the beloved neat-&-tidy presentation of ‘biblical’ that makes us feel safe.
Threats to pastoral control, power, and the tithing stream.
The human beings with enough integrity to speak up and rock the boat —
because some ‘biblical’ things are simply not right. they are stupid. unethical. they are cruel and destroy human lives. ‘biblical’ PR simply pacifies and silences the consciences of many.
You mention people leaving the church. I agree, it’s sad and disappointing – because we’ll miss them and it will feel lonely.
But know that faith is alive and well and thriving with integrity outside the institution.
and what is a human being worth? certainly not the sake of a church. i say the opposite is true.
if christians really believe what they say they believe, that Jesus gave his life for ‘me’ –for one person– like the parable of the shepherd leaving the 99 to save the 1…
i truly don’t understand the doped up, dare i say groomed response to save the institution at the expense of a person.
Lowlandseer,
“gospel-vacuous”
+++++++++++
wow, didn’t see that one coming.
is there room on the bull$h|t bingo card for that many letters?
I find it interesting that on an elder board, one person can fire someone. The two churches I’ve belonged to that were elder led had to go through a process for firing anyone (except outright major sin, like .adultery). They just didn’t fire people at the senior pastor’s pleasure.
Just like the Communists of the last century.
How else can you climb high enough to Godhood?
Headless Unicorn Guy,
Don’t let the congregation think they have understood mission, or conversion, or that human beings have consciences (even if it’s fashionable to be easy going about baptism).
That happens when GAWD Is On Your Side – You Can Do No Wrong.
Headless Unicorn Guy,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjY7ut6J8mQ&list=PLzvdeRjhZpVnmmzJtUmLDrE5ye7VW8wXa&index=18
Matilda Jr | The Smell of Rebellion | TKA Theatre Co
There’s clearly something wrong with the “conversion” of this lot
(Principal Trunchbull is the aunt of Miss Honey who stole her home and income. It’s funny – for gender theology – that a bloke sometimes plays the role in productions)
(Christmas Eve pantomime bonus) 😉