I know Dee has lots to write about this week, thus my short post on a day we don’t generally publish anything.
In light of the controversy in the SBC concerning women pastors I thought it is appropriate to dust off a video I compiled a few years ago. In my opinion, this video establishes the fact that Al Mohler supported women as pastors in the SBC in 1984, but Mohler, always the shifty politician, quickly changed his views after the SBC convention established the conservatives as the dominant faction in the SBC.
Recently, Mohler has highlighted a few articles he has written opposing women in the ministry.
Here are links to Mohler’s two articles:
Women Pastors, Women Preachers, and the Looming Test of the Southern Baptist Convention
Look, “Mary Kahler Mohler” and her spouse “R. Albert Mohler” expressed their DISAPPROVAL of a 1984 SBC Resolution against women pastors, via a large ad in the Louisville newspaper:
“we, the undersigned members of Louisville area Southern Baptist churches, express our disapproval of this action”
https://www.newspapers.com/article/8500722/the-courier-journal-4-aug-1984-southern/
Jerome,
Great find, Jerome. Thanks.
I like to try to interpret institutional developments and the behavior of individual actors within institutional power structures in terms of the “Iron Law of Institutions”.
A representative description of that is (from a google search; interestingly clicking through to the source is prevented by my browser; an untrusted site):
“The Iron Law of Institutions is a proposition in the field of political science. The proposition states that the people who hold power in institutions are guided principally by preserving [ ed. or enlarging their own] power within the institution, rather than the success of the institution itself.”
It seems to me that this is practically a perfect summary of the kinds of things that have been reported again and again at TWW about the internal politics of SBC entities.
This is also why, I think, Jim Abrahamson’s [echurch 5/27/23] concern about “anti-institutionalism” as a cultural trend may be misplaced. When institutions lose public trust because of the self-serving conduct of the power-holders within the institutions, it is normal and appropriate for people to turn away from them. Due to the internal power structures (and, I suspect, the corrosive character of the struggle to attain places within these power structures, which will change initially good hearted people who try to obtain power out of a motive to improve the institution), they may not be reformable from within.
Whether there are forms of social organization that are not highly vulnerable to the “Iron Law”, I do not know. I used to believe that the churches might be, but I have become disillusioned about that.
Thank you, Todd, for doing this post. It’s great.
Jerome,
Jerome, you are amazing!
Samuel Conner,
Thank you for mentioning Jim’s church. He has meant a lot to me through the years.
Mohler, always the shifty politician, quickly changed his views after the SBC convention established the conservatives as the dominant faction in the SBC.
Al Mohler is in it for Al Mohler. Where would he be today, and how much material wealth, power, popularity, and influence would he have if he had not went to the dark side?
SBC 2023 update:
Saddleback and two other churches have been voted to be “not in friendly cooperation”, so I guess they’re out.
The pastor of each church was given 3 minutes to speak and appeal.
Al Mohler was the rebuttal speaker in each case.
Nancy2(aka Kevlar),
True enough Nancy, may the force be with you.
You are right, he is a politician in a preacher’s suit. There are legions of similar men in the religious ranks. Bloggers never have to worry about running out of material!
And now, the rest of the story: https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/trevin-wax/al-mohler-on-why-he-changed-his-mind-on-women-pastors/?amp
Interesting. I wonder how many of the delegates to the SBC convention know that Al used to be an egalitarian? R.C. Sproul would roll over in his grave.
They cut Rick Warren off mid-sentence when he went over the 3 minutes.
This is a really old article at this point, but here is more on the story of what led Mohler to change his mind.
https://baptistnews.com/article/mohler-says-hes-embarrassed-by-past-support-of-women-in-ministry/
As a “northern Baptist”, I am astounded that the vote was so lopsided—that so few SBC messengers realize that there are credible ways to read the Bible’s statements on women which do not prohibit women pastors. 2023 goes down in history as a shameful blight equaled only by the separation of northern and southern Baptists over the issue of slavery in the mid-1800s.
Sandy Williams,
Maybe the people who respect women have drifted away from the SBC.
Centrist? Mohler? Just a few years before being put in charge of SBTS!
Associated Press, 1989:
“ATLANTA (AP) – A centrist Southern Baptist has been named the new editor of The Christian Index, the newspaper of the Georgia Baptist Convention. Richard Albert Molder Jr., 29, will begin in the job June 1.”
Hadn’t endorsed either side in the SBC-CBF split? Mohler? Just a couple of years before being given the Presidency of SBTS!
New York Times, 1991:
“disaffected Southern Baptists set up an organization today that will allow them to operate independently of the conservative leadership of the Southern Baptist Convention…the Cooperative Baptist Fellowship”
“Dr. R. Albert Mohler Jr., the editor of The Christian Index, which is published by the Georgia Baptist Convention,…said he had not endorsed either either side in the quarrel.”
“Inerrancy isn’t the most important word about Scripture.” Mohler? So said he in 1990!
And his colleague David Dockery (now the newly-installed president of SWBTS) was also quoted in same article by Baptist Press in 1990 with some rather underwhelming statements about the inerrancy and infallibility of Scripture:
“‘A lot of us get quite hung up on terms like inerrant and infallible,’ he said. ‘I think it is very possible to move the discussion forward and still talk about the
nature of Scripture without using those particular red flag terms.’ ‘I would prefer that we talk about the Scripture as truthful, reliable and authoritative and see it having to be the normative guide for the church, for our lives and for the Christian community’.”
http://media.sbhla.org.s3.amazonaws.com/7009,17-Aug-1990.PDF
Oops, I misspelled Mohler’s name as Molder again.
Mohler was definitely against women in ministry when he rolled into SBTS as its new President in 1993. Check out this excerpt from a Q&A session by young Mohler with SBTS students … and check out his cold stare … he still creeps me out everytime I look at this video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jk_VQgsjFz8&t=78s
Anything this significant requires Al Mohler’s attention … he’s the SBC Pope, you know. Not to mention he was the architect behind the 2000 revision of the Baptist Faith and Message which put female believers into a deeper hole. Warren vs. Mohler and Mohler won.
The ordination of women was essentially the driver behind a big SBC split in 1991 … resulting in the formation of the Cooperative Baptist Fellowship. This was during SBC’s Conservative (aka Calvinist) Resurgence.
Mohler was also embarrassed by his past support of C.J. Mahaney. Seems the man doesn’t have much discernment.
Thanks for the link, Allison. I found the article very interesting, here is a quote from it:
“At one point, it was my responsibility to get Dr. Henry from one end of this campus to the other. As I was walking him along, he brought up the issue of women in the pastorate. He asked me my position on the issue. With the insouciance of youth and the stupidity of speaking more quickly than one ought, I gave him my position. He looked at me with a look that surprised me and said to me, “One day, this will be a matter of great embarrassment to you.” That’s actually all he said. When Carl Henry tells you that on the seminary lawn, the effect of that embarrassment was instantaneous… The shock on his face was enough to arrest me. We talked more; we didn’t get close to that. We did talk about it many times thereafter.
What do you do when Carl Henry tells you, “One day this is going to be a matter of great embarrassment to you?” Well, I went to the library. I looked for every book I could possibly find on the subject. Frankly, the urgency on me was such that I didn’t think I could eat or do anything until I found out why I was going to be so embarrassed. The campus was full of people who appeared to be wonderfully unembarrassed about the issue.
I found very little. There wasn’t much. There was a book by Stephen Clark, Man and Woman in Christ. It led me into, thankfully, some Scripture study. I ended up staying up until I could figure this out. Somewhere between Carl Henry saying what he said to me and the dawn of the next day, my position had completely changed.
Now… Carl Henry didn’t change my position, but he sure did arrest me. It was the Scripture that changed my position. I had to come face to face with the fact that I had just picked this up, I had just breathed this in, and I’d just capitulated it out without checking it according to the Scriptures. By the way, going to the Scriptures, it doesn’t take long. It wasn’t not like I embarked on a lifelong study to discover what Scripture says about this. It didn’t take long at all.”
My thought on this story is it reinforces what the video above stated – Mohler bases his stance on an issue on political expediency. He weighs what will most help his career before determining his position.
I know Mohler is an intelligent man, his friend C.J. Mahaney, before he became Mohler’s ex-friend, made that point abundantly clear in his speech concerning Mohler’s stack of books! That said, I am skeptical of Mohler’s story. How does one examine every book on the subject in the library and then read Stephen Clark’s 768-page weighty tome, digest every applicable passage of Scripture, and come to a total reversal of his position within 12-16 hours?
Trying to cut this objection down before it being voiced Mohler says, “By the way, going to the Scriptures, it doesn’t take long. It wasn’t not like I embarked on a lifelong study to discover what Scripture says about this. It didn’t take long at all.”
“With the insouciance of youth and the stupidity of speaking more quickly than one ought, I gave him my position.”
I suggest that the following morning Mohler hadn’t lost any of his youthful insouciance.
(I’m not as intelligent as Dr. Mohler and am not ashamed that I had to look up the definition of insouciance. It means “casual lack of concern; indifference.”)
I need to write a post that illustrates how Mohler changed his position on Secret Societies when a female student questioned him about his membership in Dodeka; how he changed his position on slavery when he received negative responses from the media and how he dropped his support for C.J. Mahaney and Sovereign Grace Churches after being confronted with the facts by Rachael Denhollander.
Thanks for the link to the video, Max. I had not seen that. What I found interesting was Al Mohler didn’t even reply to her well stated case.
“A double-minded man is unstable in all his ways.” (James 1:8)
so few SBC messengers realize that there are credible ways to read the Bible’s statements on women which do not prohibit women pastors
Sandy Williams,
Most of those messengers have been groomed since they were very young.
The women that are there as messengers ( a minority, btw) ..… believe me – they are “properly” trained and vetted.
I was a Southern Baptist before the “conservative resurgence”, so I’ve watched the changes creep in. They really started having an impact on churches in my rural area of Southern Kentucky about 2005 or so. By 2011-2013, the changes were blatantly obvious.
It just keeps getting worse, at least in my pre-submissive-wives-doctrine opinion.
Allison,
So one sentence from one man and one evening spent reading one book convinced Mohler to change his mind? That sounds more like he’s easily swayed than anything else.
You will also find interesting an exchange in that 1993 Q&A session between another young woman on the issues of women in ministry and the secret society Dodeka … beginning at the 26:00 mark in this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQTQOnv21Z8&t=2079s
Southern Baptists missed a perfect opportunity to send Mohler packing at that point, but didn’t … a mistake they are now dealing with, as Mohlerites run roughshod through the denomination.
Max,
Thank you. As you already realize, my understanding of the SBC comes largely from TWW and a couple of encounters in my college fellowship.
I had not been thinking about a schism, but about individuals and families thinking quietly, “This hurts.”
Another howler from Mohler in the early 1990s, not long before he showed himself to be a Conservative zealot seminary President:
[the Moderates’ candidate had defeated the Conservatives’ candidate for the presidency of the Georgia state convention]
“That non-aligned center of the denomination is increasingly traumatized by divisiveness caused by either party,” said Dr. R. Albert Mohler Jr., editor of the Christian Index, the Georgia Baptist newspaper.”
https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/400079547/
They are cold men.
Most of them have stone in their chests rather than living, pumping life.
I enrolled at SBTS in January 1993. Mohler arrived prior to the fall semester. It did not take long for him to start exhibiting thuggish behavior against many of his former mentors, friends, and associates, bold behavior for 33 year-old former moderate. He sarted dismantling and reforming the seminary from day one. I don’t believe he would have been so bold without the solid backing of those who installed him. He was young and gifted orator. I think he was seen a key to leading a new generation of young zealots, they weren’t wrong. His cold, calculated callousness has inflicted much pain and harm on many paople resulting in conflect and schism, not only to the structure of the SBC, but also to local congregations across the country. His record speaks for itself.
Dan,
Thanks for your comment, Dan. I agree with you, Mohler is a thug. His true character was seen from the podium of the 2016 T4G, supporting C.J. Mahaney while trivializing sexual abuse survivors.
Mohler apologized about three years later, after confronted with undeniable truths about the coverup of sexual abuse in the Sovereign Grace Churches, whose leader was C.J. Mahaney.
Whoa! And that from Mr. Divisive himself! Hopefully, the non-aligned center of SBC will send Dr. Al and the Mohlerites packing soon. The center is not aligned to mere men, but to Jesus.
SBC lost over 1 million members the last three years … they were hurting, I’m sure; I was.
Todd Wilhelm,
The hand-wringing response of lament Mohler issued when the abuse story went public showed that he was far more concerned for the welfare of – and the harm done to – his fiefdom (the SBC) than he was for the survivors.
As Lord Acton said “Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely.” You give an arrogant 33 year-old know-it-all a handful of power and it becomes a fist. Dr. Mohler has almost single-handedly corrupted America’s largest Protestant denomination. Once admired around the world, SBC is now a reproach and byword.
Yeah but the real question is; does he now believe that the SBC should have kicked him out at that point?
New Calvinists stick by their dudebros until the potato becomes too hot to handle, when a bro’s liabilities exceed their assets. Then it becomes “Mahaney who?” … “Driscoll who?” … “MacDonald who?” … etc.
With Ex Cathedra powers more vast and unlimited than any Pope in the Vatican.
Tell me again what was the Reformers’ big beefs with the RCC?
Mohler: “Dr. Henry…brought up the issue of women in the pastorate. He asked me my position on the issue. With the insouciance of youth and the stupidity of speaking more quickly than one ought, I gave him my position. He looked at me with a look that surprised me and said to me, ‘One day, this will be a matter of great embarrassment to you.’ That’s actually all he said.”
But what Mohler leaves untold in his oft-told tale of his sudden epiphany, is that it was Carl Henry himself who had introduced the anti-women-pastors SBC resolution at the 1984 Annual Meeting!
Proceedings of the 1984 Annual Meeting of the Southern Baptist Convention
http://media2.sbhla.org.s3.amazonaws.com/annuals/SBC_Annual_1984.pdf
p. 60, “Carl F. H. Henry (DC) moved the adoption of Resolution 3 [excluding women from “pastoral functions and leadership roles entailing ordination”]…results of the ballot on Resolution 3…Yes 4,793 (58.03%); No 3,466 (41.97%). Resolution 3 was declared adopted”. (p. 65)
Mohler says: “What do you do when Carl Henry tells you, ‘One day this is going to be a matter of great embarrassment to you?’ Well, I went to the library. I looked for every book I could possibly find on the subject…I found very little. There wasn’t much. There was a book by Stephen Clark, Man and Woman in Christ.”
But did Mohler consult the following book? He doesn’t admit to it.
SBTS Library
https://sbts.on.worldcat.org/oclc/972068
Bobbed Hair, Bossy Wives, and Women Preachers
by John R. Rice
[Sword of the Lord Publishers, 1941]
Contents…”Women preachers forbidden in Bible; Bobbed hair the sign of a woman’s rebellion against husband, father, and God; The horrible sin of rebellion.”
Women preachers don’t bother me … but bobbed hair scares me to death! 🙂
Chris S,
A younger Al Mohler once said that God was an equal opportunity employer (referring to women in ministry).
But he made a name for himself, achieving stardom during the Conservative (aka Calvinist) Resurgence by reversing his position … from egalitarian to complementarian. The new leaders of SBC would allow only those who walked the new partyline to enter the Inner Ring.
Beware of the double-minded.
Do you reckon that Southern Baptists will one day be embarrassed to the point of deep regret for giving Al Mohler a platform?
Bobbed hair was popular in the 1920s. The mind boggles that they were publishing a book against it in 1941, when the world had certain other things to worry about.
Mohler is the consummate politician with whetted finger to the breeze.
Christians have been Late Adopters for a LONG time.
Usually jumping on the bandwagon going “ME, TOO!” with cheezy CHRISTIAN knockoffs AFTER the original jumps the shark.
How can you be embarrassed when You’re God’s Chosen Who Can Do No Wrong?
I guess that by 1941 a few SBC women thought it was safe to try a decades-old brush-and-go hairstyle. Meanwhile the popular 1941 styles were long, precisely curled, and shiny, requiring time and skill to maintain.
If people are worrying themselves sick about their hair, they will have no time or energy to think new thoughts. And let’s face it: in the SBC, it’s always the women who are hectored about appearance.
… and riding the wave to glory!
Headless Unicorn Guy,
Al Who?
doubleplusungood ref doubleplusunperson.