This rare scene features star Wolf-Rayet 124 framed by a colorful halo of gas and dust before exploding in a supernova, NASA/James Webb
“Man is not, by nature, deserving of all that he wants. When we think that we are automatically entitled to something, that is when we start walking all over others to get it.” ―
Special thanks to Jerome, a knower of many things.
In November 2022, I wrote Former SBTS Professor David Sills, Accused of Abuse, and Wife Mary, Sue SBC, Guidepost, Jennifer Lyell, and Others For Defamation. This lawsuit did not surprise me. For those of you who have not been following this lawsuit, a review is in order. To recap:
- Lyell was a 26-year-old MDiv student at Al Mohler’s Southern Baptist Theological Seminary.
- Davi Sills, a professor, is accused of grooming her. This resulted in a 12-year relationship which Lyell and others, including Al Mohler, considered an abuse of the power differential.
- He was forced to resign and disagreed with the interpretation of events.
- He and his wife sued the following person and entities: The Southern Baptist Convention, Ed Litton, former SBC president Bart Barber, current SBC president Willie McLaurin, interim SBC Executive Committee (EC) president/CEO Rolland Slade, former chair of the SBC EC, Jennifer Lyell, The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary (SBTS), Albert Mohler, SBTS president, Lifeway, Eric Geiger, former Lifeway executive, Guidepost Solutions, a third-party investigative firm secured in 2021 by the Sexual Abuse Task Force,
From my post:
It looks like the alleged abuser and his wife are fighting back and are hunting for bear. Sadly, this will be one to watch since it will hurt the victim, Jennifer Lyall, and many of those in the SBC who have sought to defend her. Baptist News posted: Sills files suit against SBC and 11 other defendants, claiming his relationship with Lyell was consensual, and he became a ‘scapegoat’ in the SBC’s sexual abuse crisis.
Lyell’s claim that she was abused by David Sills while he was a professor at Southern Baptist Theological Seminary resulted in a controversial news story published by Baptist Press, the denominational news service, which portrayed the relationship as consensual. Lyell contends it was not consensual.
After several years of dispute, the SBC Executive Committee earlier this year reached a financial settlement with Lyell and issued a public apology for the Baptist Press story.
According to Relevant Magazine in The SBC President Is Defending a Sexual Abuse Survivor From Attempts to Discredit Her Story:
In 2019, Lyell wrote her story of sexual abuse at the hands of a former Southern Baptist seminary professor and sent the story to a Christian news outlet. But when the Southern Baptist Convention’s Executive Committee’s Baptist Press published her story, it did not characterize it as a story of abuse but as a “morally inappropriate relationship.” Online, Lyell was branded as an “adulteress” instead of a survivor of abuse, and “lost her job, her reputation and her health,” according to the Washington Post. It got so bad that, in 2021, she told Religion News Service she wished she had never gone public.
But then the Guidepost investigation and report happened. According to Baptist Press, Jennifer Lyell’s name appeared on 36 pages of that investigation.
Background on what is alleged
- The Courier-Journal in 2019 posted Southern Baptist professor accused of sexually abusing student ‘by design’ over a decade.
- In a statement posted on her website, Jennifer Lyell, who is now 41 and works for a major Christian book publisher, said Sills first “sexually acted” against her on a mission trip in 2004 and that the relationship continued until she was 38.
- She said she was a 26-year-old Master of Divinity student when it began.
- He was a Southern Baptist Theological Seminary professor and was allowed to resign.
- Lyell said the reason she didn’t report Sills’ alleged abuse sooner and he was able to continue “grooming and taking advantage” of her for so long was because he made her feel part of his family.
- She said when she reported what happened to Mohler and her boss at Nashville, Tenn.-based LifeWay Christian Resources, she accepted responsibility for “being compliant at times” and not reporting the allegations sooner. “I am not a sinless victim,” she said, “but I am a victim nonetheless.”
- She praised Mohler and the seminary for taking “immediate action” against Sills after he admitted “inappropriate sexual activity” and for handling the situation “justly and as I asked.”
- She also said Sills’ Louisville church took action after he resigned from the seminary May 23.
End of a way too long quote from my post.
David and Mary Sills claim they have been made the scapegoat for the SBC sex abuse crisis. Is this true? Hmmm
David and Mary claim he cannot find work in Christian ministry.
In a complaint filed Thursday (May 11) in the U.S. District Court for Middle Tennessee, Sills and his wife, Mary, claim he was made a scapegoat for the denomination’s sex abuse crisis.“After various mischaracterizations, misstatements, and contrived investigations by Defendants, Plaintiffs have been wrongfully and untruthfully labeled as criminals and shunned by the SBC and every other religious organization with which Plaintiff Sills has tried to associate,” the complaint alleges.
…the complaint alleges that the seminary’s president, Albert Mohler, as well as members of the SBC’s Executive Committee, the SBC’s former president, Lyell and others, then conspired to shame Sills, who alleges he has no longer been able to find work in Christian ministry.
This raises an interesting question. Should a seminary professor who engaged in a 16-year sexual relationship with a student, a relationship many might claim is an abuse of the power differential, expect to find a job in Christian ministry?
Sills claims he is repentant. He also claims he is obedient to SBC rules. Could folks in the know email me a copy of these so-called “rules” written by the SBC? I know about the ten commandments. Maybe SBC leaders get a copy of the rules? I had a pastor who claimed that people cook the books regarding rules. Often people who claim to be perfectly obedient follow a set of rules they can follow and don’t add in rules they cannot or don’t wish to follow. For example, the guy with a temper and yells omits that from his rule book. However, he has things he can follow in his book, like shoveling his neighbor’s walkway. So he follows all the rules…Please get me the official SBC rule book ASAP!
…Sills admits his conduct with the student, Jennifer Lyell, was inappropriate and says he was “repentant and obedient to the rules of the SBC.”
I think that anyone who has a 16-year sexual relationship with a student and then claims all is well, could be cooking the books, but who knows? But sixteen years with no repentance during that time by a professor at the premier SBC seminary? Good night!
The SBC and every other religious organization have shunned David. What about Mary?
I am not a lawyer, but I found it interesting that the suit does not mention the shunning of Mary. Could it be that Mary has a job in the broader religious sector? She does. She works at the United Methodist school, Millsaps College. She is on the staff of the Office of Academic Affairs.
Does being shunned by every religious organization involve membership in the church?
It does for me. Here is a link to a bulletin at First Presbyterian Church, Jackson, Mississippi. Look who was welcomed into membership.
They have been restored to church membership. Not too bad for participating, as a Christian professor, in a 16-year disturbing relationship with a student. I wonder how many of us would be admitted to the church with a similar background.
David Sills has his own real estate business in Jackson, Mississippi, so he has a job with a way to earn income.
Here is a link to his group.
Final thoughts
David Sills has moved on in his life. He had a real estate business. His wife works for a Methodist-based college, and I bet she has a decent income. Both have been admitted to church membership. They should spend the rest of their lives thanking God for what they have. But instead, I believe that they seem entitled. They want it all. I think that God may be disciplining them while at the same time giving them a way to earn a living and participate in a church.
I don’t get them. David knows better. He was in an institution that is the home of demanding church discipline. What did he think would happen? That life would continue with no harm, no foul? I believe these lawsuits will not bring honor into their lives. But they may get money. Is that what it’s about? They should consider letting go and humbly living out the faith for years to come. They will be subject to much pain with depositions and court cases.
Repentance takes time and is lived out over many, many years. It could last to the end of one’s life. So then, one faces God with a well-lived life instead of suing everybody and his brother!
Could anyone send me the definitive SBC rule book?
First? Dee, you are correct in noting that the courts will have to rule on the autonomy of SBC churches. Like you, I will be curious as to the outcome. “Repentance takes time and is lived out over many, many years.” I have to wonder how Sills (and others) will face God in eternity for what they have done.
It seems the whole Country is sue happy these days.
It ain’t just folks who are pi$$ed off at the SBC.
Today’s post serves up well-aged entitlement with hypocrisy sauce and a side of DARVO. Bon appétit.
That part about Sills making the victim feel like a part of the family (according to the victim) sounds strange to me.
Did Mrs. Sills condone the relationship of her husband to the victim?
No doubt that Jennifer Lyell is a ‘victim’ in the sense that there was a ‘power differential’ in that a professor and a student are NOT on the same level of authority.
So I can agree with this:
“I think that anyone who has a 16-year sexual relationship with a student and then claims all is well, could be cooking the books, but who knows? But sixteen years with no repentance during that time by a professor at the premier SBC seminary? Good night!”
Lyell is right when she says she is ‘not sinless’ as she was an adult, not a minor.
Is anything known about Lyell’s claim that she felt included in ‘the family’? I found that ominous and creepy and wondered about how this was exhibited to her in her opinion AND if there were any revelations that put clarity on that strange comment.
Two adults.
One having professorial authority over the other in her student role.
A wife who supports her husband (?)
Just on the grounds of a power differential, one would hope that the courts might take the positions of the ‘professor’ and the ‘student’ as non-equals in authority under consideration, yes. Therein lies moral support for Ms. Lyell’s case.
Dark story, this. Our human frailties are magnified when conducted under the ‘auspices of the Church’ in any capacity . . . there is also a violation of ‘trust’ in that the professor was employed under the auspices of a Christian entity . . .
one expects ‘better’;
one hopes for better
but the track ‘record’ . . . . . (sigh)
Again, we see the common confusion of believing that some form of repentance automatically leads to restoration to vocational ministry. Receiving forgiveness/being restored to the church and being trusted (again) with the privilege of leading God’s flock ARE mutually exclusive.
Arrogant men, thinking that they have the right to be involved in Christian ministry after committing gross sins should learn from the example of John Profumo.
This is extraordinary. I don’t know how it works legally in the US but every entity he is suing can’t conceivably have a liability towards him.
In the UK the one he would take to the employment tribunal would be the seminary if he disagreed with their interpretation of events. Given that his employment contract probably includes a clause about not sleeping with the students he would probably lose anyway unless the seminary hadn’t followed their procedures.
You would think a lawyer would advise their client to accept that sleeping with a student would end their teaching career.
This man should be on the State’s Sexual Offender registry, and he is restored to church membership? What the H E Double toothpicks?
Standard SBC Church Covenant.
Having been brought as we trust, by divine grace, to accept the Lord Jesus Christ as our Saviour and to give ourselves wholly to Him, we do now solemnly and joyfully covenant with each other, and in His strength do engage:
That we will walk together in brotherly love and will exercise a Christian care and watchfulness over each other and faithfully warn and exhort; and as occasion may require will admonish one another in the spirit of meekness, considering ourselves, lest we also be tempted, and that as we have been buried with Christ in baptism, and raised again, so there is on us special obligation henceforth to walk in newness of life;
That we will not forsake the assembling of ourselves together, but will uphold the public worship of God and the ordinances of His house, and will cheerfully contribute according as He may prosper us for the maintenance and spread of the Gospel and for the relief of the poor;
That we will not omit private and family devotions nor neglect the religious education of our children and those under our care for the service of Christ;
That we will seek divine aid to enable us to deny all ungodliness and every worldly lust, to walk circumspectly in the world to the end that we may by our influence win souls for Christ;
That we will be just in our dealings, faithful in our engagements, temperate in our lives, and by our counsel and example strive to promote every good work for the elevation of mankind;
That we will remember each other in prayer, visit and aid each other in sickness, and seek to cultivate and maintain Christian sympathy and courtesy and earnestly endeavor to avoid doing, or giving utterance to anything which may grieve or offend any from the least to the greatest of those for whom Christ died;
And may the God of peace, who brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus Christ, that Great Shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting Covenant, make us perfect in every good work, to do His will; working in as that which is well-pleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ, to whom be glory forever and ever. Amen.
“Can’t find work in Christian ministry….” A young man that I personally know took money from an account at a bank that he worked at to cover his gambling addiction. He was confronted and confessed to what he had done and didn’t make excuses. He was very repentant. He reimbursed the funds. He is prohibited from working in the banking industry the rest of his life. He pursued another direction and has done well.
Exactly! The Wartburg Watch has published several pieces about church leaders who committed immoral sin being restored to ministry after a brief “restoration” period. There are no examples in the NT of bad-boy pastors being restored to ministry. Broken trust is hard to fix, but when the pulpit betrays the pew it is darn near irreparable.
“Touch Not Mine Anointed”, remember?
“If you question what I say or do
YOU REBEL AGAINST THE FATHER, TOO!”
— Steve Taylor, “I Manipulate”
So did Douggie ESQUIRE of Vision Forum.
First Wife always outranks a mere Handmaid.
And if she was Winsomely and Gospelly Submissive, whatever Biblical Man Husband wants, goes.
“In the spring of 2018, after more than two years of therapy, she disclosed to her boss at Lifeway that a former professor named David Sills had first “sexually acted” against her — without her consent — during a mission trip he was leading while she was a seminary student. Lyell told RNS she did not initially report what happened because she was in shock, confused and scared about what people would believe. Lyell says Sills, who was a surrogate father figure to her, eventually abused her again and then continued for years, even after she left seminary.“
https://religionnews.com/2021/03/18/jennifer-lyell-wanted-to-stop-her-abuser-by-telling-her-story-instead-her-life-fell-apart/
“In the spring of 2019, Lyell, then a well-respected leader in Christian publishing, decided to publicly disclose that she was a survivor of sexual abuse. She did so after learning her abuser, a former Southern Baptist seminary professor, author and missionary, had recently returned to ministry. Lyell feared he would once again have the opportunity to abuse others and wanted to stop that from happening.”
And the answer to that is “it was consensual” and scores of lawsuits? And the penalty isn’t jail time, but potentially an assessment by churches and institutions that the contention of non-consensual initiation and the alleged progression and pattern could constitute abuse as such. And the issue may be purported harm cuz potential barriers to well-compensated “Christian ministry work” — I mean, I’m guessing that’s what he might likely have aimed for versus setting up shop preaching on street corners in Ulan Bator, as he probably could’ve gotten a position doing that (or provided himself a position)?
Is First Pres in Jackson, MS, Ligon Duncan’s former or current church? He’s a Mohler BFF. That’s interesting.
Also, is it beneficial and does it play into Sills’ hands to describe his behavior as the violation of criminal statutes that would put him on a State’s sex abuse registry? Among his claims in the lawsuit is that SBC officials have been saying such, but that is not true even if Ms. Lyell’s claims are accepted completely.
I don’t believe the lawsuit will come to much.
delete. I don’t know where I read Methodist instead of Presbyterian. More coffee please.
“I don’t get them. David knows better. He was in an institution that is the home of demanding church discipline. What did he think would happen? That life would continue with no harm, no foul? I believe these lawsuits will not bring honor into their lives. But they may get money. Is that what it’s about? They should consider letting go and humbly living out the faith for years to come. They will be subject to much pain with depositions and court cases.”
Well said, Dee. He has a real estate business, they have a church membership, God has forgiven them, but he must work in ministry! They need to sue to bring this all up again! So much for humility. So much for walking in gratefulness for what God is doing now in your life.
Many conservative SBC people rank sexual abuse as a lesser offense, a lesser sin, than having women in positions of power. (Hello, Baptist Press!)
……. Sexual abuse of women and minors should be an issue kept within the local churches ( (Mike Stone, candidate for SBC Pres., has stated this. He is all in for counseling offenders…. keep it quiet, no law enforcement involved.). No real threat to spreading the ‘gospel’.
……. women in power is a full-blown SBC denominational issue, that needs to be addressed at the national level. Women pastors are existential threats to both the SBC and the gospel.
What else should we expect from David Sills and his cronies??? If they had just kept his horrible, sinful, criminal behavior at the local level, Sills’ pride, prestige, and power wouldn’t have been so badly injured.
I wonder to what extent that cultural practices that appear on the OT (specifically polygyny and concubinage) may influence the thinking of men who are looking for justifications for violating church ethical norms (not to mention marriage vows).
Just thinking out loud. Is there no conscience/fear of God at all, or is the conscience inaccurate or the fear of God lulled by reflection on the … umm … “privileges” of powerful males in the OT?
In an earlier time, that would have worked.
But not now, not in this day and age of the internet and instant news media coverage.
Surely they’re smart enough to realize that?
We always assume that these characters know God. If you don’t know God, your conscience would not necessarily convict you of sin.
Major drivers in the New Calvinist movement. When those are taken away, you are either broken and humbled or come out fighting.
Max,
The odd thing is that there are things that “even” unbelievers recognize are wrong. Use of power differential to exploit a person in a position of weakness is one of those.
We really need better proxies for character in hiring decisions in christian enterprises.
Yep. From the string of bad-boy reports on TWW alone, it’s obvious that a confession of faith, degrees from Christian universities, and experience in ministry are not necessarily good indicators of “Christian.” Scripture says “You will know them by their fruit” … I guess we need better fruit inspectors in Christian institutions.
Oracle at Delphi,
Thank you for your input. I think there is a possibility of a behind the scenes settlement with the dreaded NDA.
The entitlement to work in a ministry position again by people that have been perpetrators of sexual or financial abuse bothers me. Part of the problem I struggle with is paid ministers to begin with. I’m not totally against it, but it tends to define a lot of thinking when it comes to “being in the ministry”. I call this big “M” Ministry as opposed to little “m” ministry.
Big “M” Ministry is a paid position with a fancy title. “Did you hear about Billy-bob? He went into the full-time ministry at Pastor So-and-so’s church.” Being in the full-time ministry is proof that you have arrived. All the better if the title has the word “pastor” in it. Senior Pastor, Associate Pastor, Teaching Pastor, Music Pastor, Business Pastor.
People that end up in the full-time ministry often aren’t good for very much else. At least David has some real estate skills, but I have seen too often that pastors involved in scandals just go out and start another ministry or are taken in by another pastor. They don’t know how to do anything else. The best thing for these people would be to work a real job.
It’s a big question, of course, whether or not they could survive in a normal job, you know, the kind everyone else has to work, with all the stresses and everybody having an ASK for the TAT on something really important needing to be done by EOD, difficult coworkers, managers, etc.
Then there’s the whole nepotism aspect involved in big “M” ministry. The church we attend now, it’s not really our church, we go mostly to support our kids. We like a lot of things about this church, but the the pastor is very good at keeping things all in the family. If he’s out of town his father or his wife will preach even though there are several other pastor/elders who could preach. It’s not that his father or his wife don’t have good messages, usually they do, it’s just that I only remember someone not in his family preaching maybe once. Recently he’s hired two of his kids, maybe it’s just for the summer. But I guess this is sorta getting off topic.
Little “m” ministry is serving God and others. Sometimes you get paid for this but mostly you don’t.
” He was in an institution that is the home of demanding church discipline. What did he think would happen? That life would continue with no harm, no foul? “
He was part of the inner circle at the most prestigous SBC seminary…… bullet-proof …..untouchable.
I believe that is exactly what he thought. I believe he thought that either his victim would be ignored, or that the troops would rally ‘round him and protect him.
I think that for him it’s gonna’ be like Berlin in March-April of 1945.
Muff Potter,
I’m afraid his ego may be the only structure that gets damaged. Of course, I get this feeling that his ego is his most important part.
Max,
They think no one will ever go all tattle-tale on them.
MOD: Did you mean to change your email address? GBTC
Happens all the time in New Calvinism … they stand by their man until the potato becomes too hot to handle.
Nancy2(aka Kevlar),
No. I did not mean to change the address.
I’m sorry.
I need to remember to proofread…… every time.
Keys on my new iPad are different….take a much firmer hit than my old one, and I am not adapting well.
Because that real estate business is SECULAR(TM), of the Flesh instead of the Spirit.
“Spiritual Good, Physical BAAAAAAAAAAAAD!”
Remember the Heresy of Clericalism?
That ONLY Priests, Monks, Nuns, and Full Time CHRISTIAN Ministry is acceptable in the eyes of God?
Then it’s “doulbeplusungood ref doubleplusunperson”.
You are right HUG. Poor me, working my secular job for the past 25 years, showing up on time, being a team player, loving my enemies, and crying in the bathroom with a co-worker whose young husband got stage 4 cancer. Oh, and giving her meal delivery cards using my own money. Yep, no chance to shine the light of Christ in a secular job.
I got so hopelessly befuddled trying to work an iPad, I chucked it into the Mariana trench (so to speak). Now I just stick to my desk-top PC.
Same with ‘phones’.
I was finally able to get a ‘simple’ old-fashioned flip-phone.
No bells, no whistles, no internet, no ups, no extras.
It’s just a phone.
I am now a confirmed Luddite.
Anyways, back to the topic at hand.
I’m wondering if one day there’ll be a split in the SBC, much like Lutheranism split into LCMS and ELCA.
Headless Unicorn Guy,
This exchange, and Dee’s main points in the post really does get to me… How many times have us pew peons been “preached to” about being “G4dly witnesses” and how “bad” we were for doing X,Y, or Z… All of the disgusting stuff that keeps getting exposed, usually, by, as HUG calls it “the clerical class”, just makes my blood boil..not so much about how depraved this clerical class is, just that I ever took stuff they said serious… especially with respect to my personal behavior..
Jeffrey J Chalmers,
I’ve noticed this same thing. Among the non-clergy christians I know, (the “laity”) there is less morally repugnant behavior than the clergy I’ve known. And if a member of the non-clerical class does exhibit disgusting behavior, and someone says something about it, a cleric is quick to defend their behavior, and there will follow, for the benefit of the one who objected about it, a sermon about being a pharisee, taking the log out of their eyes, etc.
Muff Potter,
Adjusting to this iPad has been difficult. I love iPads. This one replaced my old one that I had had for 8 years…..and it was very, very touch sensitive. I just about have to bang on this one!
But, a part of my problem is that we live in what I call a technological desert……signals come and go……. Dish tv, cell phone, computer. A few months ago, we had no satellite service for over 2 weeks! Occasionally, the PC and the iPad will just freeze for a moment. We’re waiting for a fiber optic line they are supposed run below our house at the end of the year.
My son-in-law has his own IT business (well, 51% of it) that he and a partner built from scratch a few years ago. He and my daughter have the newest and best of everything in phones, etc …. Even they don’t get a good signal at our house!
Call my cell number or message it and I won’t know until I get in the car and drive about 3 miles.
We still have to have a land line all of the time, and and we have to use our old tv antenna sometimes.
Highly overrated. IMHO.
Sounds like the New Testament.
Ava Aaronson,
Many of today’s evangelical big dogs do not want to work like the Apostle Paul did……. but they do want the the influence and the fame … and much more …. and they don’t want to wait a century or two.
No doubt about it. Southern Baptists have had several splits over this and that during the past 150 years. That’s just what they do.
Well then, it seems it’s all about them. Nothing to do with God. Fake. Famous. Froth with evil. Full of themselves.
“Unspeakable! Sickening!
What’s happened in this country?
Prophets preach lies
and priests hire on as their assistants.
And my people love it. They eat it up!
But what will you do when it’s time to pick up the pieces?”
(Jeremiah 5:31 MSG)
The LCMS has been separate from the other Lutheran strands ever since they first established themselves in the US. One small group of LCMS did split from the LCMS (1974, Seminex) and eventually became a small section of ELCA when it first formed (1988) from several Lutheran strands. The LCMS itself was formed by some German speaking Lutherans who wanted independence from the Lutheran state established churches back in Europe (see for instance Saxon Lutheran immigration of 1838–39 and the trajectory of Pastor Martin Stephan’s career [very relevant to Wartburg Watch]).
Touch Not Mine Anointed(TM), remember.
This is the issue. THE ISSUE. If you know God, are a believer in Christ, and God is real, it is possible for you to sin. But God will discipline you. Christ will do the sovereign work of sanctifying you (Philippians 1:6), ” being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.” However, if you are merely a hanger-on, a person who professes faith but is not truly indwelt by the Spirit of God, you can twist the scriptures to condone any kind of sinful departure from biblical morals.
bob M,
“However, if you are merely a hanger-on, a person who professes faith but is not truly indwelt by the Spirit of God, you can twist the scriptures to condone any kind of sinful departure from biblical morals.”
++++++++++++++++++++
any human being on any spirituality spectrum is fully capable of this.
“biblical morals” – which interpretation are those?
any number of so-called biblical morals are unethical.
…having the impulse to both laugh and cry at the same time as a faith sojourner is so tiring.
“biblical morals” – which interpretation are those?
The simple, clear ones.
Do not commit adultery.
Do not kill.
Love your neighbor as yourself.
Love God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength.
Not sure what you’re laughing at. I am not talking about spirituality in general. I am talking about faith in Jesus Christ, which is laid out in the Christian scriptures. If you are talking about some vague spirituality that is however you feel like defining it, we’re in different universes.
I don’t think Elastigirl was disputing your point unless I’m missing out on everybody’s subtext. I think she was saying more people will know good enough morals (based on the very ones you’ve listed) in this situation as well. I think she was expressing scepticism towards the lack of truthful content to some people’s (presumably not your) slogan “biblical” and their definition of loving God.
Michael in UK,
yes, that’s basically it. wow, you were so straightforward, there — i understood everything you wrote.
1. there are so many versions of biblical all coming to different if not opposite conclusions.
2. who am i to judge whether or not someone is indwelt by the holy spirit. but i can judge the conclusions of numerous biblical interpretations as unethical.
3. religion is what people make of it. it is beyond belief to me that i can no longer practice my religion because i have to compromise my own integrity and morals to do so.
the macabre irony of it all is ridiculous and crushing.
This has created a great tension for true believers trying to fit in some expressions of “Christianity” today.
“They say that what is right is wrong and what is wrong is right; that black is white and white is black; bitter is sweet and sweet is bitter” (Isaiah 5:20 TLB)
(Passing irony in non-ironic usage of “true believers”)
The functionally cessationist fake charismatics and their identical anti-charismatic peas in the pod gerrymandered us who see the world’s real needs and each other’s needs, to outside their constituency.
However, I get an inkling my latest batch of reformed friends are coming round – and we mustn’t forget to give thanks & supplicate for revivals in Asbury, Londonderry etc.
I misunderstood her post then.
It’s grisly. I feel your anguish, always.