Was this bear for him or her? link
“We forget that the sweetest joys are found in the simplest acts: hugs, laughter, quiet observation, basic movements, holding hands, pleasant music, shared stories, a listening ear, an unhurried visit, and selfless service. It is sad we forget a truth so elementary.” ― Making Wishes: Quotes, Thoughts, & a Little Poetry for Every Day of the Year..
Teddy Bears and Methodist Churches
I was mulling over what to write about tonight and got a call from my good buddy, Eric Bonetti. He told me that he wouldn’t attend a particular Methodist church in the greater D.C. area because they were putting Teddy Bears in all the pews to provide comfort, primarily for adults. He noted that one of the teddy bears was covered in baby burp residue.
Anyone who has spoken with Eric knows he can be rather humorous. I thought he was joking, but he offered to take a picture of it for me. I began to think he was telling the truth. So, I googled “Methodist Church and Teddy Bear.” Eric was telling the truth.
The Methodist Schism
Last year I wrote The Coming Methodist Schism: Plans Are Being Laid for the Inevitable Split.
I believe it is the lens through which Scripture is interpreted which is at the heart of this matter. In other words, they take a more conservative approach, although they will ordain women. The ordination of women is gaining a foothold in some conservative denominations but that is for another time.
faithful Methodists have been praying and working to discern God’s will for a new church rooted in Scripture and the historic and life giving teachings of the Christian faith.
Here is why they say they are forming this church.
The Global Methodist Church has not been legally formed and is not operating as a church at this time. When legally formed, the Global Methodist Church will be as outlined on these pages. We expect the Global Methodist Church will be legally formed and begin to operate as a church when the General Conference of The United Methodist Church adopts the Protocol for Reconciliation and Grace through Separation which anticipates the creation of new Methodist churches. Alternatively, if it becomes apparent that the leading bishops, centrists, and progressives who covenanted to support the Protocol no longer do so, then the council will consider bringing the new church into existence without delay.
There is a tentative timetable for this new group of churches.
It is widely assumed that the delegates to The United Methodist Church’s next General Conference (August 29-September 6, 2022) will approve a plan for the denomination’s amicable separation. Once that plan of separation is approved, the Global Methodist Church’s Transitional Leadership Council will officially launch the new denomination. Alternatively, if it becomes apparent that the leading bishops, centrists, and progressives who covenanted to support the Protocol no longer do so, then the council will consider bringing the new church into existence without delay. For approximately one year, the Global Methodist Church will be a church in transition as it prepares for its convening General Conference. Unfortunately, due to Covid-19 pandemic induced travel and meeting restrictions, it is not possible to provide an exact date for the official beginning of the Global Methodist Church. Our fervent prayer is that it will take shape later this year.
Here is a link to THE TRANSITIONAL BOOK OF DOCTRINES AND DISCIPLINE THE GLOBAL METHODIST CHURCH. This is for those of you who are like me and love to look at some core beliefs, this is well worth the read
At the end of the post, I prayed for peace.
I wonder if it will take a year to get this ball rolling? I think it might happen sooner rather than later. May there be peace.
Numerous churches are leaving the denomination.
Eighteen months later, we find many churches separating from the Methodist church. For example, The Roys Report posted Over 400 Texas Congregations Exit United Methodist Church Over LGBTQ Issues.
Specifically, the Texas Annual Conference, meeting at First Methodist Houston West, approved plans for 294 of their 598 churches to disaffiliate; while the Northwest Texas Annual Conference special session, held at Lakeridge United Methodist Church in Lubbock, affirmed 145 of 201 churches would exit.
“We are incredibly sad that these churches have chosen to break connection with us,” said Hal Sharp, chair of the Texas Annual Conference Board of Trustees. “However, we have confirmed that they have met the requirements for disaffiliation and are properly before you today.”
Many of these congregations are expected to become affiliated with The Global Methodist Church, a denomination started by conservative Methodist leaders in the wake of the UMC’s drift towards a liberalized stance on LGBTQ issues.
In my state of North Carolina, WFMY News2 reported that 249 churches separate from N.C. United Methodist Church over LGBTQIA+ guidelines.
Leek explained, “Some of the votes who are unanimous, they want to all leave. Some only either passed or failed by a few votes. There’s deep pain and deep hurt maybe even a sense of betrayal in some of our members.”
Because of this, UMC has created something called United Methodist Collective, for people who feel displaced because of the disaffiliation.
The next meeting to talk about changes to the rules will be in April of 2024.
Disaffiliation is happening in the U.S., and it appears it will continue in the next couple of years. I wonder what percent of churches will leave.
The traditionalists are expected to lose the majority by 2024
Juicy Ecumenism wrote on 10/22 that United Methodist Church Exits Accelerate.
United Methodist exits are accelerating, as at least 260 of 779 churches in the North Carolina Conference, or one third, have voted to disaffiliate or plan to next year, according to The Carolina Journal. United Methodist churches, whose property is owned by the denomination through the local “conference,” can vote to exit the liberalizing denomination, with their property and a one-time payment, before the end of 2023.
…It’s expected that 1500 and likely more churches will vote to exit this year, with perhaps a total of 3000-5000 churches exiting by the end of 2023. United Methodist Book of Discipline Paragraph 2553 allows congregations to exit with property by the end of 2023. But exits must be confirmed by votes of annual conferences, which typically meet in May or June.
…Exiting churches must pay two years of apportionments and pension liabilities. In the Virginia Conference, the total equals about five or six times annual apportionments. Exiting churches there are paying from $24,000 for a 47 member church to over $600,000 for a 667 member church.
… Over 100 churches in the Florida Conference are suing Bishop Ken Carter and the conference over an exorbitant insurance charge he has added to exit costs.
It looks like traditionalists will be on the losing end.
Traditionalists are not expected to have a majority in 2024.
So, in times of sadness, some may reach for the Methodist Teddy Bear.
I was surprised to hear of this form of outreach.
Asbury United Methodist Church posted this comment on Facebook.
Long Plain United Methodist Church posted this on its website.
These bears are placed in the pews. According to Chapel Hill United Methodist Church:
The Teddy Bear Ministry’s purpose is to show God’s love for those who are hurting through the loving gift of a soft, cuddly teddy bear. The bears are free and can be found sitting in the pews in the sanctuary. The bears are available for those who need comfort or are going through a difficult time and not to be used as a toy.
Each bear will have a number attached tagged that says:
“Dear friend I’m just a teddy bear it’s true,But I have a message for you.I’ve been to church and sat in a pew;I’ve been hugged and squeezed by quite a fewI’ve bowed my head when they said a prayer;I’ve been charged with love by those who care.And now I’ve come to live with youTo bring you joy when you’re blue.To let you know that others careAnd want to help your burdens bear.So, keep me close and squeeze me tightand know God’s love helps make things right”Love, from your friends atChapel Hill United Methodist Church
Here’s a Methodist video on the matter.
58% of adults are lonely.
I don’t know these churches; I’m sure they mean well. Some church visitors might find teddy bears in the pews for adults a bit off-putting. I believe these bears are a simplistic solution to the loneliness epidemic affecting adults in the U.S. post-pandemic. According to Cigna in The Loneliness Epidemic Persists: A Post-Pandemic Look at the State of Loneliness among U.S. Adults:
Now, according to new, confirmatory data from Morning Consult commissioned by Cigna, more than half of U.S. adults (58%) are considered lonely. This is fairly consistent with pre-pandemic researchThis link will open in a new tab. [PDF] that showed 61% of adults experiencing loneliness in 2019, after a seven percentage point increase from 2018.
Sadly, in many churches today, people are just butts sitting in the pew, rarely leaving their seats to reach out to others. People are looking for human contact, and it’s sad to think that teddy bears are a solution to loneliness for some churches. Frankly, a teddy bear in a pew would hold little meaning for me, but perhaps I’m just the odd one. I want to hug a human friend as opposed to a teddy bear.
Is there a better use for these bears?
Here is what South Hills United Methodist Church does with the bears. I think this makes more sense.
South Hill UMC is collecting new and gently-used stuffed animals for Gleaning for the World who ships them to orphanages in impoverished countries. Providing comfort, security and love to children in tough situations through the gift of a stuffed animal.
So, call me a curmudgeon, but I think I would feel odd sitting next to a stuffed animal. I would prefer to sit next to a friendly person.
I encountered the Methodist teddy bear phenomenon about 20 years ago and did not quite understand it.
But I’d rather sit with a teddy bear than with church folks who utterly fail to get along.
Reconciliation. It’s in the Bible.
https://www.npr.org/2022/12/10/1141010320/as-attendance-dips-churches-change-to-stay-relevant-for-a-new-wave-of-worshipper?utm_campaign=storyshare&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social
“Pastor Battle says he used to measure church success by BPs: Butts in pews, bucks in the plate, baptisms in the pool, building programs. How you grow a church, right?
“The question was how can the church change the culture? Now it’s how do we change the culture of the church?”
Only in America do we pass out teddy bears when feelings get hurt. I have a friend ministering in an overseas country that persecutes Christian, sometimes horribly, it is the price you pay for your decision to follow Christ. I bet their feelings really get hurt when they lose jobs, lose their children and get tortured. No teddy bears for those brothers and sisters.
I have a teddy bear or two sitting on my couch. They’re probably biblically knowledgeable, given all the Scriptures they hear or read. Probably more than the folks in many churches.
Frankly, the bears would probably treat me and others better than most church people have.
I agree with Friend.
The church I grew up in voted to disaffiliate.
Mary Sills, who’s suing the Southern Baptists who exposed her SBTS professor husband, is now employed by a United Methodist school. She is Assistant to the Dean/Provost at Millsaps College.
But their new church home is First Presbyterian there in Jackson, Mississippi [flagship church of T4G & TGC pastored by Ligon Ducan until 2013 when he became chancellor of Reformed Th. Seminary; he still preaches there occasionally, his successor as ‘Senior Minister’ is a Wee Free import]:
David & Mary Sills being recognized as new members of the church, at 20min
https://www.facebook.com/FirstPresJackson/videos/1102618430243372
Map of the more than 100 colleges/universities/seminaries that are affiliated with the UMC:
https://www.gbhem.org/education-leaders/2021-map-of-um-affiliated-in-the-u-s-and-puerto-rico/
Church splits and regrouping are about money and numbers (numbers being “customers” who are actually donors who are willing to pay $$$ each week for their gospel – so numbers are actually money, too. All comes down to money $$$ to support the enterprising leader and his enterprise).
Church as a business enterprise has to keep reinventing: liberaler and liberaler for a bigger tent drawing that group, conservativer and conservativer for a “purer” more exclusive tent drawing that crowd. Christians go looking for their group or their brand, naturally.
Bottom line: church as enterprise, as business.
Nothing about Jesus linked the Gospel to $$$.
Nothing about Jesus was about numbers; at various times, Jesus’ followers deserted him.
The church, the Body of Christ, is not an enterprise. No $$$ is transacted with the Spiritual gifts of the Holy Spirit. Pastoring is a spiritual gift to the Church. Gift.
The Gospel is neither a self-help book nor a conference.
Any sales of anything for what God offers is heresy, and never supported by Scripture.
Church as a business enterprise is a false application of the NT practice of offering room and board to traveling men of God who came into town for a couple of days to evangelize and disciple and fellowship. These men of God were not to stay for more than a couple of days.
Money collections to support church overhead with church as an enterprise is found nowhere in the NT. The curtain in the Temple split when Jesus died and rose, ending the Levitical roles. Jesus is our only middleman, and he never collects money for the Gospel.
The NT writers advocated collecting money from wealthier Christians to share with legitimately needy Christians. In Jesus’ day, some were orphans, widows, and/or the displaced – through no fault of their own. What church enterprise does this today? They don’t, other than somewhat superficially. They need to support their overhead, to perpetuate and keep the church enterprise with the enterprising leaders.
People talk about kept women. Church leaders are kept men. And like kept women, the kept men have certain behaviors and characteristics to perpetuate their transactional lifestyle.
The deal about arguing creed with these denominational splits and regroupings is a smoke screen. Church working-real-jobs people could get over their infatuation with the theobros and all of their word salad creeds to move on to authentic non-enterprising church. Dones and Nones are so over it.
Leaving these toys in the pew for multiple people (probably mostly children) to handle sounds like a great way to get a respiratory virus. Where I live, the children’s hospital er is over capacity.
Yay, church….
I don’t know.
Biblical literalism is definitely at play though.
How do you open your church up to a LGBTQ person when the bible clearly states what should be done with them?
Or ordain women without shaving their heads for speaking in church?
Head shaving is an entirely personal fashion choice. Religion has no place in the fashion world.
Ok, maybe for some groups who like to emulate “little house on the prairie” but I digress….
Former UMC here, still on their mailing list 15 years later.
No matter how the American UMC spins being against the Global Methodist Church, there is much more at play than just disagreeing over the whole LBGTQ issue.
The root is that back in the 60s the UMC decided rightly to address racism by making the WHOLE UMC equal, including people of color around the world. No more paternalism.
Now the WHOLE church votes conservatively, and the American UMC is battling to make them second class citizens again.
Disgusted Methodists are fleeing them.
Jerome,
Jerome! Long time no hear. So glad you are still around and offering invaluable information. This one goes out on a tweet tout suit.
Old Timer,
🙂
“in many churches today, people are just butts sitting in the pew, rarely leaving their seats to reach out to others”
I’ve been in countless churches (within SBC) that could be described that way. The pewsitters have such melancholy faces – half of them look like melons, the other half like collies. Frankly, I would rather hug a teddy bear than those folks! Reach out to others? Nah, they spend decades as church members and never get around to doing that.
(disclaimer: Praise God for pulpits and pews across America who are not this way … who are remaining faithful to the commandments of God to reach a lost and hurting world around them, even those who visit their churches … you will know them by their love)
P.S. if you want to leave me something to hug in the pew, I could use a new fly rod
And everyone shouted AMEN! (or should have)
Jesus has a way of doing that. Perhaps we need to ask Him if He would reconsider going to church again. There is no doubt that the authority and influence of Jesus are waning in the American church.
Definitely not a good idea in the midst of the Covid/flu/RSV/cold season. The following Scripture sorta fits:
“For this reason many of you are weak and ill, and some have died” (1 Corinthians 11:30)
An army of teddy bears sitting in pews ain’t going to scare the devil. We need to get our heads screwed on straight again if we are going to challenge the enemy in these evil days.
The more I think about it … the church in America used to be counter-culture to the world, now it is a subculture of it.
something about a bear . . .
I have bought bears for the grieving, and then been too ashamed to give the gift I had chosen because I knew no better to do . . . I did not know the ‘words’ to say
there must be a legend or a story behind ‘teddy bears’ and comforting, yes, but I cannot remember hearing it
lately came the connection of ‘Paddington bear’ and the late Queen Elizabeth II,
and there was something about it that reminded me of the bears I had purchased and then been too reticent to give at the time . . . part of me would have done it, yes, and I think that was the better part of my nature
Methodists ? I love ’em. They educated my sister after she had partied too much at a university and flunked out. They did not scorn her, no. So the Family owes them some loyalty.
Bears? Love ’em. Alive and in their natural habitats, not getting shot at by people for sport, no. Leave ’em alone to live . . . our Alaskan wilderness is theirs before it is ours.
Stuffed Animals? I still have my ragged, very old ‘Skin Horse’ of whom it is written in the ‘Velveteen Rabbit’, this:
““Real isn’t how you are made,’ said the Skin Horse. ‘It’s a thing that happens to you. When a child loves you for a long, long time, not just to play with, but REALLY loves you, then you become Real.’
‘Does it hurt?’ asked the Rabbit.
‘Sometimes,’ said the Skin Horse, for he was always truthful. ‘When you are Real you don’t mind being hurt.’
‘Does it happen all at once, like being wound up,’ he asked, ‘or bit by bit?’
‘It doesn’t happen all at once,’ said the Skin Horse. ‘You become. It takes a long time. That’s why it doesn’t happen often to people who break easily, or have sharp edges, or who have to be carefully kept. Generally, by the time you are Real, most of your hair has been loved off, and your eyes drop out and you get loose in the joints and very shabby. But these things don’t matter at all, because once you are Real you can’t be ugly, except to people who don’t understand.”
― Margery Williams Bianco, The Velveteen Rabbit
christiane,
This is one of my favorite quotes. Makes me think of grandparents and great-grandparents, too.
I would just temper the Bible with reason and common sense.
Simply because it says such and such in this verse and that verse, doesn’t mean it has to followed to the letter.
Not one pro-LGBTQ+-add nauseous comment on a post like this? I am surprised. Not that I care too much what men do. There is a list of things that will exclude you completely from heaven, which means you go to the place I saw 25 years ago that was more real than this place where we comment. Now doing anything that guarantees you a place there, that I would not recommend to anyone. Did not Jesus say something about gaining the whole world (with its riches and lusts) and losing your very soul?
Other than that I am with Ava. I think all of our denominations and their pastor king ways just stink. Seeing that hole as I did does change someone’s perspective. I hope you never have to see it. But that is your choice not mine…
Let me be the first then.
I believe in a live and let live ethos.
So I guess that makes me pro-LGBTQ, even though I’m as straight as Popeye the sailor man.
Hell-bound for not believing a certain way?
A bit draconian I’d say.
I’d be extra careful with “personal revelations”.
You may have had one, but the likelihood is extremely low.
So my question – to anyone who tells me about a “religious vision from heaven”, not just you – would be twofold:
1) Have you talked to a health professional about it?
2) Have you been consuming chemical substances (natural or artificial) that might influence how you experience the world?
Not a chance that I will go to a place another online commentor envisions. Feel free to stop worrying and/or threatening. We all know how to read the Bible.
How do we know what “to the letter of LG” means? My friend’s 9 year old was told he was LG. Some honest self proclaimed LGs want to stop the LG authorities’ trenchant interference in their private lives: and are thereby sticking up for all children in the process. Watch for the latest trend: people coming out about going back in the closet.
Mr J, are you dishonouring what was given to you?
Gus,
Gus, no 1 is his affair. No 2, I recommend good quality tea to all (not coffee).
Pro which LG?
The materialistic teaching that tentative emotions are the core essence of a person (essentialism as causation fallacy) and that this has to be in the public sphere came FROM the body theologians with their deniable dominionism (double argumentation). Teaching us not to pray so heavens get shut up like brass. Now look at hundreds of millions of lonely christians of opposite sex attraction, and billions of terrified women and boys.
Unless situational chastity is understood as making ready to strengthen the integrity of one’s peers and supplicate, this is a non issue as long as the real meaning of the kingdom hasn’t been taught, both sides with their irrelevant mini-salvation. Linda and Chuckp had things of substance to say, with Jack raising some of the questions in drily ironic style.
Jesus didn’t say, “but now I call you methodists”. Why not go to both halves if you’ve got time, on different days. Rev and Mrs Sills go multi denom, like I usually do! It is to be applauded that thought has been given to splitting the assets in this way. How many of you would deplore it if the resurgents by some fluke offered honestly to buy some of the baptists out?
Since Ascension, as Samuel has helped us see!
Michael in UK,
1) To an old-school gamer like me, “LG” means “Lawful Good”, one of the D&D character alignments from the two-axis (Good/Evil, Law/Chaos) alignment system from the Feb 1976 issue of The Strategic Review and made official with AD&D1.
2) Have you ever tried to pronounce “LGBTQ” plus whatever other letters get appended? Sounds like John Denver being strangled (Monty Python reference). I just call them the “Unpronounceables” and let it go at that.
2A) Christians have this pathological obsession with Pelvic Issues – the OTHER guy’s Pelvic Issues, never their own. This is characteristic of a male-supremacist culture (such as Biblical Manhood and Biblical Womanhood) which will always have a Love/Hate relationship with Homosexuality. Penetrator forcing Dominance on the Penetrated; including a More Manly-Man Alpha Male than you using YOU as you use a mere woman. (“WOMAN! SUBMIT!”)
And his was the Guided Tour of Eternal Hell sub-type, which I am especially skeptical of:
1) Doing any search on “Visions of Hell” will get you MILLIONS of hits, NONE of which resemble each other in the slightest. No consistency whatsoever except for except Adolf Hitler ALWAYS being one of the stops on the guided tour. A tour of what all claim is the exact same Place.
2) I consider such Visions and Miracles to be a subset of Paranormal Experiences; of which I have had two-probables and one possible in my entire life. Like some extremely rare natural phenomenon. And all these Visionary types are so Spiritual they have a Direct Private Revelation from GOD every thirty seconds. (Like Witchfinder-General Matthew Hopkins smelling out Witches. Or Tatted Todd and Shaking Stacy at Lakeland.)
3) In my church (RCC), claims of Private Revelation (usually some form of “Mary Channeling”) is THE most common way to Flake Out Completely. Including founding flat-out CULTS with Rosaries like the Baysiders and Hill of Hopers.
Actual RCC policy on Private Revelations is that they are binding ONLY on those who have had the Revelation; others may accept and follow VOLUNTARILY, but belief in the Private Revelation is NOT required for anyone else. I think there’s even a Church office that investigates those sort of things and evaluates whether they are real or fake.
3)
“If You QUestion What I Say to You
YOU REBEL AGAINST THE FATHER, TOO!”
— Steve Taylor, “I Manipulate”
Muff Potter,
And we’re talking Mr J here.
Check the archives around April or May 2020 for any posts having to do with COVID and go through the comment threads looking for Mr J.
Mr J rang in on the thread(s) with claims of Private Revelation (what was it, “The Fourth Time Jesus Appeared to Me in a Dream/Vision He Told Me…”) that God Hath Sent COVID as a Plague on the Church for its Sins (effectively COVID created in GOD’s Bioweapons Lab in Heaven instead of the CCP’s in Wuhan) and ended up making Believing On this Revelation the Litmus Test of Salvation. With lotsa Chapter-and-Verse Zip Codes (ALL OT, NO NT), denouncing all who Scoffed and Doubted (like the rest of us) and shaking our dust off his feet.
That pretty much killed any credibility he had with me.
Why yes, Puddin’! It’s called Las Vegas!
And, Darling, it’s absolutely fabulous!
That’s because you use your powers for goodness and niceness.
And a fine scholar in the tradition of Dr. Seuss no less….
And that’s part of the problem. Anyone who doesn’t fit the straight way as defined by “normal” society gets tossed into a bucket. There’s a big difference between a gay person, a transgender person and someone who identifies as non binary.
Now black and brown triangles are on the rainbow flag so black and brown people can be tossed in the bucket.
Got to know who’s”us” and “them”
1 – the way as defined by hegemonic hijackers and false homogenisers of wouldbe free and diverse (“real”) self described LGs
2 – The thorough historian, KK Du Mez, traces a back and forth between “church” and “world” centred around the John Wayne meme or trope. Its sacred force has rubbed off to the extent that “secular theocracy” is now entrenching (in the UK at any rate).
In a uniform bloc lockstep (the exact opposite of live & let live – in Greyson Chance song title terms “Waiting outside the lines” – and of non binary, non all or nothing, non false dichotomy).
There being no private forum according to animators and fundamentalists of any ideology (see my earlier comment).
No, what it actually evaluates is solely whether visits may be given official parish / diocesan status, but what it is claimed to evaluate by all sorts of factions of hooligans of every real or pretended stripe is plethoric. There is also a process in which bishops have the equivalent power locally.
There is a separate question of the changing meanings of the apparitions and locutions as time progresses. For instance according to a hunch I’ve got, the vision of “A” (not described as “Our”) lady to Maximin Giraud was probably underlyingly about supplicating that the Vatican would not proclaim infallibility (go materialistic).
In regard to things some contributors occasionally say about any judgement or warning, those are always intended for religious leaders (read what Jeremiah had to say about Josiah’s triumphalism), which is why we should supplicate that God will give us good leadership (non ad hominem) and spare the burden from those not at the time morally well fitted to bear it.
Scripture says pray for leader/s and governor/s which is grammatical metaphor for the quality and process of government and leadership.
(Dan Allender groups three rough categories, the evil, the codependent, and ordinary sinners, in terms of disparate dynamics appearing around them and needed to deal healthfully with them.)
In providence, since Ascension, we shall need to trade all the spiritual gifts (kingdom = economy of talents = household) (see Prov 21: 10-31 which is not about wives), and to try to be diplomatic if someone misstates a case (as here, by not parsing the status of the many LGs or UPs).
Another Greyson Chance * song title, “Hold on till the night”, tells me that if we now “talk the walk”, those who come after us will have heard insights they can remember, to stand them in good stead in their turn. Thus they can understand the real basis and not the materialistic one, in the kingdom of heaven. Thus we are ourselves, God’s providence for each other and for those who come after us.
We had lunatics impose intensely on us, but what it boils down to is that a case has been misstated. God’s intentions and provision are most logical and clearer when we look for meanings to words. All knowledge is personal, is not subtractive, and is built up by continually reprioritising hypotheses (your degrees of inference).
* P.s “Sunshine and city lights will guide you” reminds me of the message both of Nature and of the spiritual realm. I use music poetically – but that’s just me 😉
Did anybody rise to my bait about honest buyouts of baptists 😉
Jack,
“Indeed in nothing is the power of the Dark Lord more clearly shown
than in the estrangement that divides all those who still oppose him.”
J.R.R. Tolkien (LOTR)
This is like those churches that disaffiliated from ELCA because they didn’t like LGBTQIA people being pastors and bishops. And the thought I had then is the same thought I have now. I won’t attend those churches, because they’ve made it very clear that they don’t see me as a full human being.
And I am frankly tired of “love the sinner, hate the sin.” That’s being used to justify all sorts of hateful actions right now towards LGBTQIA people, and all we’re trying to do is live our lives. I’m tired, very tired. It’s ironic that these churches will hive off because they don’t want to deal with the LGBTQIA community, but so many of these churches cover up child sexual abuse, have abusive systems in place and are otherwise just not good places to go.
The young people are abandoning the churches because they see the hypocrisy.
As a member of a Methodist church there is a broader issue that isn’t discussed much which is many of the more progressive churches have a clear Unitarian theology. It is one thing as fellow Christians to have open and honest discussions around LGBTQ issues it is another when leaders completely disregard foundational theological underpinnings. Personally I have no problem with someone who holds an Unitarian world view but many of us do have an issue with people who teach that under the banner of a Christian denomination. If they had integrity they would resign and open an Unitarian church and practice some truth in advertising. As others said being in it for the money happens at both the consecutive and liberal extremes.
Muslin, fka Dee Holmes,
I don’t parse your comments for your private life, and am adamant that private life is private life and that our conscience is our own. An LGBTQIA person might be what the majority of authorities religious or secular might call you since the dominionist “Moral Majority” sacredly entrenched these “essences”. Essentialism is fastening on an incidental and claiming it is core essence. (I group myself many times, overlappingly, as well as ungrouping myself.)
Schooling had already begun, in my day, to dumb down existence, identity in logic, relevance of attributes, grammar as metaphor. We did still think an emotion was an emotion, a taste was a taste, and an initiative was an initiative though.
People who make most noise about the transcendent are those who worst diss it and refuse to practise it: naive monist materialists and absolutists, people without method. 18 or 21 is the age we should start self homeschooling (in all subjects) in earnest, and go beyond the permission to not intercede / permission to blaspheme the gifts, promulgated by the churches. This is the same issue as in David’s comment.
The problem comes from influential people who insist on manoeuvring (the only means of influence when unbelieving in Holy Spirit gentleness since Ascension, or in honest logic) that gets done mainly in blocs (the bad kind of material dialectic). If staying within the sacred paradigm of the resurgents and their so called “liberal opponents” (who are their identikit doubles) we would risk not helping. That is why I see myself as “waiting outside the lines” (WOTL) – as Jesus does and we can for each other – and “baggage agnostic”. People on all sides who have been troubling you know insufficient about chastity, or the kingdom, or Holy Trinity, or gifts: they only pretend to, when pushed.
David,
The new martial art: tick boxing. Theism (as Spinozist absolutist jagganauth) and moralising are chic marketing as Ravi found to his expense at age 17 on his hospital bed. The phenomenon you highlight has sadly been in the ascendant in all denominations, for a century. It gives rise to the system of the “progressive” Bismarck (dead hand god) and the “tolerant” William James (wet blanket thinking).
The prevalence of atheistic agnostics – as Muslin points out – is because they are in truth intuitive “untheists” who have observed the internal inconsistency in prestigiously acclaimed Trinitarians imposing another gospel by force of mass media (recall McLuhan’s call, and sound phenomenology as basis for science). These blaspheme creeds as Ava affirms, though the canny recite the real thing unnoticed weekly.
– Real Holy Trinity = space for the other other (orphan, that’s you & me; the purpose of most of the parables) (this goes well beyond Buber and Scheler)
– Ascending He distributed to each of us unique gifts unvetoed, in providence towards our peers, the functioning of social fabric through us, and our children
– Laying up wealth in the kingdom of heaven is by the work of supplicating in Holy Spirit (“1.5 volt”) gentleness in these causes, and of talking the walk with each other.
– We can bring God glory by stringing together Glory Be’s
Jack,
Another gospel vs. Lk 2: 52
All, match the vivid descriptions in these short pieces (total 6 min 42 sec) with our frequent themes here at Dee’s:
Falling Up by Shel Silverstein | Rapping Literature
Wes Tank
113K subscribers
4,774 views 21 Feb 2022
link for Falling Up
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=moxpvdSH-uU
There are academic studies of what happens to otherwise heterosexual men’s sexual behaviour in settings with no women, such as ships and prisons, so never say never. (Intended humorously while also suggesting Popeye may not be all he seems).
perhaps they have ‘walked away’ from a place where, in order to ‘belong’ and to ‘find sanctuary’ for themselves, they were required to have contempt not only for ‘sin’ but for those ‘others’ that the place deemed to be ‘worthy of contempt’ . . . . all biblical of course, but somehow NOT biblical . . .
so the children walked away in hopes of finding the places where humility and service rule out ‘the pointing of the finger’ and the pridefulness of the ones who see themselves as ‘better than that other sinner’,
and when the children find such places, they will be able to live their faith the way it was meant to be lived ‘by the still waters’ and they can be peaceful again
‘all that wander are not lost’ (LOTR ?)
the hate rallies of the ‘christian’ extreme far right have exposed the dark hearts of too many who see themselves as ‘chosen’ and who look down on the ones Our Lord came to find,
so lately the process of the young leaving has speeded up,
but not for the wrong reasons
the young ‘know’ a wisdom and the old ‘know a wisdom
but sometimes the powerful and the vain in middle age can choose to be will-fully blind and deaf to the Word
Wild Honey,
🙂
Pink Floyd of course.
christiane,
It’s not just the young. Life is hard. People go to church for many reasons, but church fights do not typically lead to moral clarity, serenity, reconciliation, or other blessing. Church fights typically just add to the amount of conflict and heartache in our lives.
Many people spend six days a week dealing with family, a full-time job, household chores, money concerns, and maybe health problems. Then on Sunday they are expected to get all het up and take sides about something else? Oh, and this means they might have to reject people they know and love—or at least want to leave unbothered? No thanks.
True. Truth in advertising out front needed – no grift, no fooling the gullible, no games.
Rock bands, culture-war political talk, fear-mongering, finger-pointing, contempt for ‘the others’ . . . . that never really WAS the Church, was it, anyway?
People will always have need of a sanctuary that restores and nourishes and heals the broken-hearted. They will come to that kind of sanctuary, if they can still find it.
(?)
Look for a fruit-filled church instead. Might be tough to locate, but they are out there.
“The Spirit however, produces in human life fruits such as these: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, generosity, fidelity, tolerance and self-control—and no law exists against any of them. Those who belong to Christ have crucified their old nature with all that it loved and lusted for. If our lives are centred in the Spirit, let us be guided by the Spirit.” (Galatians 5:22-23)
christiane,
I’ve never gone to a church with a rock band. Once in a while my gang has a jazz band for a special celebration, but otherwise it’s organ, piano, violin, acoustic guitar, and the human voice.
Disclaimer! Of course there’s no such real thing as the spiritual power of dominionism taking over the world and shutting the heavens for “christ”, that was only an advertising ploy, and everyone knew advertising was meant to be lies all along right?
Mr. Jesperson,
When the big religions were substituting triumphalism for prayer, a 14 year old in a classroom noticed how the attempt was sprung, to create predators and predated. Now look at hundreds of millions of lonely christians of all emotions and billions of scared women and boys. Among the earliest to be quizzed, I suppose would be those who abandoned teaching praying. Is the true relevance of the book of Daniel to be found in the prayer for the dead in ch 9 v 3-21?
Oh my Lord, Friend, you’ve got to experience it at least once! I’m sure there is such a church in your area: rock band with loud drums and whining guitars, praise & worship team in tight pants swaying to the beat, laser lights, superb sound system, audience on their feet singing and clapping. Church as entertainment to enjoy while sipping a cup of espresso coffee. You’ve just got to witness the spectacle at least once … you know, be culturally relevant.
From the Canadian criminal code
https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/c-46/section-319.html
“Public incitement of hatred
319 (1) Every one who, by communicating statements in any public place, incites hatred against any identifiable group where such incitement is likely to lead to a breach of the peace is guilty of
(a) an indictable offence and is liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding two years; or
(b) an offence punishable on summary conviction.
Marginal note:Wilful promotion of hatred
(2) Every one who, by communicating statements, other than in private conversation, wilfully promotes hatred against any identifiable group is guilty of
(a) an indictable offence and is liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding two years; or
(b) an offence punishable on summary conviction”
If the missives of Deuteronomy & Leviticus from the bible were written today and not considered “holy scripture” it would fall under this definition.
You’re not missing a thing.
Most of em’ can’t play worth a diddly-damn anyway.
Thanks to TWW, I know exactly where they are, so I don’t wander in by mistake. 🙂
Friend,
Ah heck, put your Covid face mask on so they don’t recognize you and check it out … nothing like big screens, fog machines, and skinny jeans!
3 chords, 7 words, repeated 11 times
Might be taken to fall under, while it is taken as recommendation rather than object example of a mixture of how not to do things, and sometimes at best an imperfect substitute. Bad religion made sacred the “principle” since adopted by the world, that words have no meanings.
Scripture was always intended to be accompanied by explanations of meanings, and the explanations were always intended to be accompanied by belief in Holy Spirit since Ascension. Holy Scriptures are God’s gauntlet to the church (not to the world) to get this right.
Muff Potter,
I knew a talented pianist whose playing perpetually got destroyed by the jovially self-complacent amplifying minister (I almost called him “amplifying pastor”).
And have become THE Public Face of Christianity (and Christ) in this country.
Headless Unicorn Guy,
the 70% of evangelical-fundamentalist people who converted to trump-the-orange-jesus
. . . their antics never were a part of the Church anyway, were they?