(1/2) Come Thou Long Expected Matt Chandler. Is This the Conclusion to One of the Weirdest LOAs in Evangelical Lore?

“Mankind was my business. The common welfare was my business; charity, mercy, forbearance, and benevolence were all my business. The dealings of my trade were but a drop of water in the comprehensive ocean of my business!” ― Charles Dickens, A Christmas Carol.


There are two posts tonight to keep us up with many discussions.


Come Thou Long Expected Chandler

Enjoy this letter sent to me, written by the elders at The Village Church. See if you learn why he has to suffer such toil with “trusted outside experts.”

 


During his LOA, he studied the Scriptures, prayed, and exhibited humility and submissiveness. It didn’t mention that he got to go hunting during this time of contemplation.

TVC, did you know?

Does anyone outside of his cabinet really know what he did? As far as I can tell, he made some coarse joke with a woman he knows. His wife knew and was OK. Anonymous woman’s husband knew, and he was OK. If that is all that happened, why didn’t the gang tell him to cut it out, dock him a week of pay, and go on?

What happened during this LOA while we’re on that subject? We know he went elk hunting in Colorado. Was he paid during his shore leave?

Do you see what I see?

Let’s get back to what caused all the furor. Here are the two options from my POV. Can you suggest others?

  1. He told or participated in coarse jokes with a woman he knew. If that is all that happened, this lengthy LOA is one heckuva reaction. This would indicate that the TVC is hardnosed regarding discipline for things other churches would react to by slapping him upside the head. I would be pretty wary of this church’s view on church discipline.
  2. He did something really bad, and his BFF and advisors decided to downplay it and deal with it privately. If that is the case, it’s one of those “rules for thee but not for me” things. Never forget they sent a letter to 6,000 people when Karen Hinkley left her child porn-loving husband.

I wonder as I wander if this was really a ‘beautiful coincidence.”

The cabinet reminded the pew sitters that this weekend is the 20th anniversary of Chandler’s initial appearance at TVC. They claim that this wasn’t planned and it was happenstance. Forgive me, but I find this absolute nonsense. Could it be that the elders are hinting that God is behind Chandler’s second coming?

Please tell me they won’t plan a standing ovation on Sunday. It sure sounds like they are leading up to this. They will let everyone know they did not plan or encourage a standing ovation. Look out for the possible plants in the auditorium who will jump up, clap, scream and yell and get the party going when “he appears.”

Ovations for a sin that resulted in a three-month LOA would be crass, prompted by vacuous people who have been ill-taught on how to approach repentance.

I would hope that a ‘Silent Night’ might be observed, but that would not be fun, would it?

God rest ye merry gentlemen.

It’s now over, and things can get back on track. So, will the principals and key players quickly deep-six questions from the hoi polloi and tell them to “trust their authority?” I hope I’m wrong, and we will see a newly chastened Chandler who exhibits humility and submissiveness. If so, it will be time to “Deck the Halls.”

Comments

(1/2) Come Thou Long Expected Matt Chandler. Is This the Conclusion to One of the Weirdest LOAs in Evangelical Lore? — 72 Comments

  1. Nice work.¹

    If you can get it.

    =====
    ¹ Or, not work, but paid.
    Also, they make a lot of noise about the things Chandler had to do during his leave of absence, but they never get very specific. Probably because it would turn out that he had to do something like 5 hours’ busiwork a week, at full salary.

  2. Also, with regard to standing ovations:
    I’ve always hated applause in churches, but it has become more and more common. I think, the only exception would be during announcements, when the congregation hears about someone doing good. Especially, if this person were to modest to even draw attention to their achievements themselves.

    But standing ovations? – That’s too much like turning a church service into a show, a theatrical or musical performance.

  3. I agree, Gus. Applauding in church has become overkill. It rubs me the wrong way too. And, yes, will anyone be asking the question did he get paid during this time? For his little vacation too? So few people ask questions in church.

  4. Gus: with regard to standing ovations:
    I’ve always hated applause in churches, but it has become more and more common …too much like turning a church service into a show, a theatrical or musical performance

    It’s becoming more and more common because the Great God Entertainment sits on the throne in much of the American church.

    “Many churches these days have become little more than poor theatres where fifth-rate producers peddle their shoddy wares with the full approval of evangelical leaders who can even quote a holy text in defense of their delinquency. And hardly a man dares raise his voice against it.” (A.W. Tozer)

  5. I prophecy that not only will there be a standing ovation, but it will be prolonged and emotional. The great one, preacher to all but pastor to none, has returned from exile to the pulpit … and no one really knows why he left!

  6. “The cabinet reminded the pew sitters that this weekend is the 20th anniversary of Chandler’s initial appearance at TVC.”

    A light from heaven will accompany his return (the stage crew is working on how to make this happen).

  7. For all of you folkies out there, I’m about to commit blasphemy. But this is what it might sound like if TVC were Joan Baez and Chandler were Bob Dylan:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDtU81tyCZk

    Joan Baez was on tour in Australia when she heard that Dylan and made a concert comeback after his burnout/motorcycle accident.

    “Idols are best when they’re made of stone.”

  8. Max: A light from heaven will accompany his return (the stage crew is working on how to make this happen).

    And to animate the gold-plated statue of Mett Chandler to speak and order all who do not worship Matt Chandler be Dealt With.

  9. JJallday: will anyone be asking the question did he get paid during this time? For his little vacation too? So few people ask questions in church.

    Don’t Ask Political Questions, Comrade.

  10. Dee wrote “I wonder as I wander if this was really a ‘beautiful coincidence.”
    So as they carefully explain the timing of the holiday’s end, they forget, now as then, the beautiful coincidence of the timing of the holiday’s beginning. Let’s see— confronted in February, whole team of lawyers working for 6 months, and in August they happen to settle an annoying lawsuit by a sex abuse victim. Imagine the inconvenience if it had come out that their godly spiritual leader had been coarsely jesting, in writing, about the victim. Just a coincidence, I’m sure.

  11. There must be a play book floating around out there detailing how long a fallen pastor must be in exile before he can be “restored.” Coarse joking with a woman puts you out of pulpit for 3 months (Chandler) … sexual misconduct will get you 6 months out of the spotlight (Hunt) … just being an all-around bad boy puts you in exile for 18 months (Driscoll).

    Does anyone get permanently disqualified from ministry? Nah, the beat goes on …

  12. Max: There must be a play book floating around out there

    If memory serves this right…

    Chandler and Tullian both complained about how they have suffered in marriage, blamimg their wives for their improprieties.

    How does that feel? For the wife?

    Hybels also blamed his marriage… his wife.

    What about the recent post of “grandpa” finding a young chick… these wives are just supposed to take one for the team?

    Pastors’ ex-wives anonymous.

    It’s OK for a wayward pastor to blame his wife?

    Did the wives sign NDAs? What are their stories?

    Curious.

  13. Ava Aaronson: blamimg their wives for their improprieties

    And the wives have a LOT to blame their sorry pastor-husbands for … the shame he brought on their family, broken trust, lost income, agony, weeping … life will never be the same for them.

  14. JJallday: So few people ask questions in church.

    Thus, an easy target for scoundrels masquerading as pastors. See something, say something, ASK something!

  15. “We know he went elk hunting in Colorado.”

    Undoubtedly, part of the stress relief involved in his restoration process. Blasting an elk is not as bad as James MacDonald shooting pictures of his elder board with an air rifle and killing deer at point blank range.

    Whew! There are some real characters out there in American pulpits!

  16. “…His wife knew and was OK. Anonymous woman’s husband knew, and he was OK…”

    Was the woman herself okay with it? I’m confused here.

  17. Paul Wilkinson: Was the woman herself okay with it?

    Is the marriage “restored”?

    (i.e., elk hunting and six months LOA makes everything now lovely with the wife?)

    ——

    Then there are the pedophile pastors who move their victims right into the pastor home where the active pedophile pastor violates a minor, right under the nose/eyes/ears of the pastor’s wife … and she stands by her man.

    ——-

    IMHO, a pastor’s extramaritals or predatory activites at some point involve the pastor’s wife, as victim or complicit partner.

    What’s her story? Why is she a non-person? Ghosted? Ignored?

    Somehow, in the pastor world, witnesses don’t count. It’s as if a pastor rules the narrative wherever he goes, about everything that takes place everywhere. It’s as if everything the pastor says is “gospel” truth.

    Pastors are in reality on level ground with the rest of us, down off a pedestal and out of the bulletproof glass enclosure.

    The eyes, ears, thoughts, and feelings of others in the pastor world are of equal value.

    A pastor’s activities are neither anointed nor holy just because he holds the pastor title. Get over it, pew people. The Dones and Nones are so over it, BTW.

  18. Ava Aaronson,

    “A pastor’s activities are neither anointed nor holy just because he holds the pastor title.”
    +++++++++++++++

    …my husband has all this privileged knowledge, that seems to all be located in his donger…

    like it goes schwing & all of a sudden he starts carrying on, spouting off all this stuff as if it is fact

    (which is clearly assumption, complete nonsense, or else i’ve know for years it’s patently untrue).

    i can only imagine all the gnosis ‘wonders’ when a pastor’s holy gospel donger of privilege goes schwing… sparkles & all…

  19. Ava Aaronson: It’s OK for a wayward pastor to blame his wife?

    Oh Ava,
    I just watched a film about a man who murdered his wife and two little girls. Your comment reminded me, that this man TRIED to say that his wife killed the children and that he ‘had’ to kill her in response. There was no evidence of his poor wife having harmed her babies, no.

    What makes such people blame their wives for their sins??? I realize that ‘murder’ is not in the same league as adulterous affairs,
    but then I remembered that the man who murdered his family ALSO had a ‘girlfriend’ on the side and wanted to ‘get rid of’ the wife and babies so that he could be ‘with’ his girlfriend, his new ‘soul mate’.

    The saddest note: the poor murdered wife was pregnant with their third child, a son.

    Only God can understand the depths of our woundedness.
    For some of what we humans do to one another in this world, there are no words.

  20. elastigirl: (which is clearly assumption, complete nonsense, or else I’ve know for years it’s patently untrue).

    When we as people get over the Marriage Myth, the two marriage partners stand on level ground with equal footing, with head, heart, and body intact and functioning well.

    Moreover, in cases of DV, there are life-saving divorces. Marriage and family are never a Norman Rockwell painting. Quality of character and how people treat each other matter.

    As we as people get over the Church Myth, church participants stand on level ground with equal footing, and with bended knee in worship of our God alone.

    Jesus himself was so over the Religious Leadership Myth. https://wildmustangmall.com/blog/f/blind-guides-vipers

    IMHO, a lot of what is posted and what is discussed here at TWW shatters the Church Myth, for good reason. Church should respect the science of observable documented human behavior, and not circumvent the reality of what goes on in relationships. The reality of what goes on in human relationships is the primary topic of Jesus’ teachings.

  21. Max: Coarse joking with a woman puts you out of pulpit for 3 months (Chandler) … sexual misconduct will get you 6 months out of the spotlight (Hunt) … just being an all-around bad boy puts you in exile for 18 months (Driscoll).

    So where’s the list with time penalties for misbehang pastors (in 3-month increments), so that they can plan ahead?

    Just asking for a friend.

  22. Matt Chandler spent time meeting with “experts.”

    Experts in what?

    Pedicures? Hydrology? Theology? Porn recovery?

    Going to borrow a phrase from Wade Mullen, here. This is “obscurity disguised as transparency.”

  23. christiane: Only God can understand the depths of our woundedness.

    Woundedness?
    How about the depths of our own evil.
    There’s a difference.
    We all have voices within which clamor for our attention.
    The ones we listen to for good or for ill are by our own free choice.
    There’s really nothing to ‘understand’.
    It is what it is.

  24. Max: “We know he went elk hunting in Colorado.”

    Makes me almost wish a hunter from space would make a trophy of him.

  25. elastigirl: i can only imagine all the gnosis ‘wonders’ when a pastor’s holy gospel donger of privilege goes schwing… sparkles & all…

    FUNNY!

  26. Ava Aaronson:

    IMHO, a lot of what is posted and what is discussed here at TWW shatters the Church Myth, for good reason.

    :
    Too many churches/religious institutions are being used like high fence hunting preserves…………. contained ares where hunters can corner their prey.
    Matt Chandlers elk hunting brought this correlation to mind.

  27. Gus,

    I saw that. Someone sent me the Tik Tok video and then I saw Julie posted it. I may post it next week. I used to live about 3/4 mile from Prestonwood.

  28. What makes such people blame their wives for their sins??? I realize that ‘murder’ is not in the same league as adulterous affairs,

    I don’t want start a competition about which trauma is worse; however, after divorcing a cheating (part time minister) husband, every day felt like I was being murdered. This pain went on for years, in spite of therapy. I remember wishing he had murdered me, just so the pain would stop.

    This may be what many of these fallen pastors’ wives are going through (if they were not complicit and were blindsided by their husbands activities).

    It is possible to live in the same house with someone and not know they have a double life. It’s not that the wives are stupid; it’s because the perps are just that good at deceiving people (or convincing their wives that they’re “imagining things”). That’s why they’re called manipulators.

  29. Gus: https://julieroys.com/megachurch-christmas-show-flying-drummers-sparks-backlash-online/

    At least the Crystal Cathedral guy said “If I wasn’t a preacher, I’d be in showbiz,” he so liked putting on elaborate pageants.

    Why does this clip remind me of EL&P’s “Karn Evil Nine”, “First Impression, Part 2” and its prloogue/warmup act in the second half of “First Impression, Part 1”?

    The prologue even includes the lyric:
    “And not content with that
    With our hands behind our backs
    We’ll pull Jesus from a hat!
    Get into that! Get into that!”
    https://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/emersonlakepalmer/karnevil9.html

  30. Nancy2(aka Kevlar): Too many churches/religious institutions are being used like high fence hunting preserves…………. contained ares where hunters can corner their prey.

    In two words: CANNED HUNT.
    Like Paige “Bungalow Bill” Patterson, Sean Feucht, and JMac from Chicago.
    (Ask an actual hunter about “Canned Hunts” sometime. And make sure to back up well clear when you do.)

  31. Ariel: What makes such people blame their wives for their sins??? I realize that ‘murder’ is not in the same league as adulterous affairs,

    Because They Can Do No Wrong, so it has to be HER Fault.

  32. Muff Potter,

    Thanks for responding, Muff.

    ‘libera nos a malo’ is one of the oldest and most spoken of Christian prayers, so we have been giving God credit for being able to save us from evil since the beginning of Christianity

    that God sees into our souls even better than our own consciousness is a given because it is by God’s grace that our own conscience is ‘pinged’ when we are confronted with a choice between ‘right’ and ‘wrong’ because we ourselves cannot see that far ahead on the road to know all the possible consequences of our choice,
    so we are given help with our conscience being that still small voice that speaks to us in warning, without taking away our choice – the choice for which we will answer in the end

    Muff, the problems come when we try to judge as God would judge thinking we know all that there is to know in order to see into the heart of the person who is destructive, but we cannot know ‘the depths’ of what has affected this person . . . not as God knows those depths
    so we cannot ‘be God’ at the same level, we can only see what we can see as ‘evidence’ of something terrible without knowing fully the person’s heart

    evil?

    the great sadness is that we see it’s consequences in the suffering of the innocent and UNLESS we acknowledge that we are all of us sinners, we cannot ask for mercy as did the publican in the temple

    what keeps us from ‘the pointing of the finger’ may be a kind of humility that CAN say
    ‘God have mercy on me, a sinner’

    The story I told Ava about is the excruciating heart-breaking story of the Chris Watts family murders . . . wherein the older child who watched her father kill the littlest baby said to him ‘Daddy, please don’t do to me what you did to CeCe’

    if you can understand the depths of what happened, please let us all know, otherwise
    I will keep thinking that it is God’s wisdom that sees into the hearts of men and weighs what He finds in the balance

    Will Chris Watts ‘repent’? The human condition is at the mercy of God’s grace.

    We may see things differently, Muff, but I value what you have shared here as insights so thank you for responding.

  33. Nancy2(aka Kevlar): Too many churches/religious institutions are being used like high fence hunting preserves…………. contained areas where hunters can corner their prey.
    Matt Chandlers elk hunting brought this correlation to mind.

    Predators’ paradise. Targeting the young and naïve in particular.

    There’s a documentary about colleges and universities as Hunting Grounds. Churches function similarly. In the Higher Ed doc, it’s particularly heartbreaking to see real footage of a young high school student being accepted to her Ivy League dream school, beyond her wildest dreams. But then within a week of arriving at the Ivy League school, she is violently raped. Her dream is shattered as she cannot continue her education there, out of fear and trauma.

    All that glitters is not gold, in any institutional framework.

    I think this captivation happens in the world of Clergy Sexual Abuse. A girl, young woman, or woman, is finally accepted into the inner circle or gets the attention of a leader, only to find herself played as the object of his vice. Very evil, indeed. She was preyed upon. This happens to boys and young men, also.

  34. christiane: For some of what we humans do to one another in this world, there are no words.

    About another man who violently killed his lover, his girlfriend:

    “He was an extremely vicious, talented con man, and I have no doubt that she was in love with the person he pretended to be. And unfortunately for her, he wasn’t the person he actually was.”

    The relationship myth is that we fall in love with who someone pretends to be (the con) something, but that is not who they actually are.

    The church myth is that we embrace a church for what the church pretends to be (the con orchestrated by the leadership), but that is not what the church actually is all about – and we come up short.

  35. Max,

    “Coarse joking with a woman puts you out of pulpit for 3 months (Chandler) … sexual misconduct will get you 6 months out of the spotlight (Hunt) … just being an all-around bad boy puts you in exile for 18 months (Driscoll).”
    ++++++++++++++++

    do something that threatens ‘some’ (not all) pastors’ egos and/or tight authoritarian control, you’re booted out for good and lose your community who pretend they never knew you.

    (as I’ve heard many times)

  36. elastigirl: do something that threatens ‘some’ (not all) pastors’ egos and/or tight authoritarian control, you’re booted out for good and lose your community who pretend they never knew you.

    (as I’ve heard many times)

    that

  37. Max: Gus: Max: the Great God Entertainment sits on the throne in much of the American church.

    https://julieroys.com/megachurch-christmas-show-flying-drummers-sparks-backlash-online/

    Jesus wept.

    That.

    From the linked Julie Roys post:

    According to the church, their Prestonwood Cares initiative donated $7.5 million to 70 different charity initiatives in 2020. Over the past two years, their “Hunger Project” reportedly has provided over 250,000 meals to food-insecure individuals across North Texas.

    Reminds me of so many stories (scandals) of abusive pastors and / or abusive churches – “but look how much good they do!”

  38. researcher: “but look how much good they do!”

    The pastors are simply the money-collectors that put their name on wages earned and donated by others, as they distribute these donations. I guess we all could be such do-gooders but then there would be no wage-earners, no working class, and no money to pay the money-collectors’ salaries nor to donate.

    Paul was a tent-maker.

  39. researcher: so many stories (scandals) of abusive pastors and / or abusive churches – “but look how much good they do!”

    “But man he can sure preach!” … “He is the greatest Bible teacher the world has ever known!” … “He was the premier apologist for the Gospel of the 20th century” … etc. etc.

    To which Jesus responds:

    “In ‘that day’ many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, didn’t we preach in your name, didn’t we cast out devils in your name, and do many great things in your name?’ Then I shall tell them plainly, ‘I have never known you. Go away from me, you have worked on the side of evil!’” (Matthew 7:22-23 Phillips)

  40. Ava Aaronson: Chandler and Tullian both complained about how they have suffered in marriage, blamimg their wives for their improprieties.

    How does that feel? For the wife?

    Hybels also blamed his marriage… his wife.

    They’re just Women. They don’t count.

  41. Max: “But man he can sure preach!” … “He is the greatest Bible teacher the world has ever known!” … “He was the premier apologist for the Gospel of the 20th century” … etc. etc.

    “He Has NO Book-Larnin’, and HE IS LOUD!”
    — The highest complement you could say about a preacher in rural Kentucky, according to Internet Monk

    Don’t forget “He Saved All Those Souls — How Many Souls Have YOU Saved? HUH? HUH? HUH?”
    — Mike Warnke’s fanboys, after Cornerstone exposed him as a total fraud from day one

  42. Ava Aaronson: Predators’ paradise. Targeting the young and naïve in particular.

    Where the prey gathers, the Predators Will Swarm.
    In a Feeding Frenzy.

  43. Max: James MacDonald shooting pictures of his elder board with an air rifle and killing deer at point blank range.

    I still wonder whether he stopped to reload while shooting the semi-domesticated deer to pieces on his canned hunting ground. Now THAT says Rage Issues.

    And more important, that he’s into it purely for the Killing.

    I’d like to see what an FBI Profiler would make of his antics.
    And the antics of a lot of MenaGAWD, for that matter.

  44. Ava Aaronson: Is there fear of ending up in their car, carefully backed into a semi trailer which sits in a random field hidden from the highway?

    Or in their car trunk, carefully sent down a boat ramp into a deep lake?
    (I’ve been watching a lot of Search-and-Recovery Diver channels on YouTube…)

  45. christiane: but then I remembered that the man who murdered his family ALSO had a ‘girlfriend’ on the side and wanted to ‘get rid of’ the wife and babies so that he could be ‘with’ his girlfriend, his new ‘soul mate’.

    TIP:
    A “Soulmate” is NEVER the one you’re married to.
    It’s ALAWYS the trophy you’re screwing on the side.

  46. Headless Unicorn Guy: I still wonder whether he (James MacDonald) stopped to reload while shooting the semi-domesticated deer to pieces on his canned hunting ground. Now THAT says Rage Issues.

    I remember one observer saying he kept shooting until he emptied the gun. He was a bit strange, but man could he preach! (or so his loyal followers say)

  47. Headless Unicorn Guy: “He Has NO Book-Larnin’, and HE IS LOUD!”
    — The highest complement you could say about a preacher in rural Kentucky, according to Internet Monk

    Well, as a 7th gen rural western Kentuckian on my daddy’s side (baptists, Methodists), and a 7th gen rural eastern Kentuckian on my momma’s side (Pentecostals, Methodists), Internet Monk is, in most cases, absolutely correct!
    There were a couple of preachers, now long gone, that I’m just about ashamed to admit were kinfolk of mine.

  48. Headless Unicorn Guy: Where the prey gathers, the Predators Will Swarm.
    In a Feeding Frenzy.

    Church should have a warning label.

    “Never attend wearing trust on your shirtsleeve.” – for one.

    “What are some examples of warning labels?”
    ❖ “Not intended for highway use.” — On a 13-inch wheel on a wheelbarrow. ❖ “This product is not to be used in bathrooms.” — On a Holmes bathroom heater. ❖ “Eating rocks may lead to broken teeth.” — On a novelty rock garden set called “Popcorn Rock.” ❖ “Caution: Hot beverages are hot!” — On a coffee cup.

  49. Headless Unicorn Guy: They’re just Women. They don’t count.

    Reading Beth Allison Barr’s book about historical womanhood and biblical womanhood.

    The subversion of women behind their husbands came with the Reformation. Kinda sad, and sickening.

  50. Max:
    Sooooo … does anyone know if Mr. Chandler received a standing ovation today?

    He did and I’ll post the video tomorrow.

  51. dee,

    You didn’t have to be a prophet to know that was coming!

    I suppose there was also weeping without tears as the prodigal returned.

  52. How does this teach people to pray?

    Old song: “It’s me it’s me it’s me O Lord, standing in the need of prayer”

    Not in the need of being called worms, or mocked, or manoeuvred.

    Has Manifest Destiny succeeded already?

    Designer outlet perpetual melodrama is supposed to edify the masses.

  53. Ava Aaronson: Predators’ paradise. Targeting the young and naïve in particular.

    There’s a documentary about colleges and universities as Hunting Grounds.

    So are Furry Fandom events. Especially the big ones like Furry Conventions.
    It’s a problem the fandom’s had since it first split off into a separate fandom with its own conventions, peaked around Confurence 8 in the Nineties, and remains a problem to this day. (After CF8, a lot of the startup furry cons instituted a code of conduct for attendees; AnthroCon (now in Pittsburgh) has been the most consistent in applying them, and has the reputation of a clean con.)

    Where the Prey congregates, the Predators will swarm.