Lining up the Sun, Moon, and ISS. NASA
“Victory belongs to the most persevering.” Napoleon Bonaparte
Earlier this week, I wrote the deeply disturbing post: Song of Solomon Sexpert, Tommy Nelson of Denton Bible Church, Who Never Heard the Word’ Pedophile’ Until 2005, Overlooked the Sex Abuse of Students
In this post, we learned that the church knew about Shiflet’s predilections and chose to overlook them, presumably because the pastor, Tommy Nelson, had NEVER heard the word “pedophile” until 2005 when he was forced to deal with Shiflet’s behavior. As I said in that post, I don’t believe Tommy Nelson primarily because I sat through his “Song of Solomon series” and knew that he considered himself an expert on the Biblical view of sex.
Diversion alert: One perceptive reader commented that she never paid attention to the Song of Solomon because Solomon had 900 hundred wives and 200 concubines. Nelson explained this, but I didn’t buy it back then and still do not. It went something like this.
This points to the fact that the Song of Solomon is the story of Solomon’s first marriage, before he sinned by adding many other wives (1 Kings 11:3). Whoever the Shulammite was, she was Solomon’s first and truest love.
The transcript of the sentencing hearing of Robert Shiflet
Todd should be a court reporter. He sent me the transcript from the sentencing of Robert Shiflet on 6/22/21. Here is a link to the PDF for those of you who are like Todd and me and love to scour such documents.
Robert Shiflet Transcript of Sentencing 62221
We will be quoting directly from the transcript for the rest of this post. Todd and I want to point out a few concerning things in the transcript and will follow it up with the testimony of some victims.
Shiflet had a plea deal, and his defense attorney said his parents bankrolled his attorney and court fees but they were now financially strapped.
would we argue against imposing a fine? Yes. why?
Because he still has a lot of financial obligations. I will
tell you this that Mr. Shiflet did not hire me and cover my
fee. It was his family, his parents, that did that, because
they didn’t have the money to do it. so that’s not reflected
in that as well; that his family, his parents, have put
together the $140,000 to help him out.
They, in and ofthemselves, don’t have the funds to satisfy a large fine
Why a plea deal (33 months)?
This case went back over 20 years, and there was not enough hard evidence. Shiflet pled guilty to two counts of molestation. The judge was frustrated with the 33 months sentence, but there wasn’t much he could do following the plea deal. He expressed his frustration in the following.
I have to worry about general deterrence.nAt least in mymind, this is amongthe very worst crimes one can commit.
In terms of just the conduct that Mr. shiflet pled guilty to, it’s among the worst crimes that one can commit.And it’s among thecrimes that probably have the longest term psychological effect on its victims,
of any I know, perhaps save murder. And certainly as to the related offense conduct that’s in the
presentence report, it gets even worse than the specific crimeso which Mr. Shiflet pled quilty to.Part of what I need to do is make sure that other people don’t do this.How in the world is 33 months
telling people who might commit a crime like this, who are in a position of authority
over their victims like Mr. Shiflet was, telling them that they might get 33 months how in the world does that
deter them from doing something as heinous as this?
He asked each victim if this sentence would help them get on with their lives. (This judge appeared compassionate and victims centered.) Here is what one victim answered.
THE COURT: If I accept the plea, will you go home
7 satisfied and feel like justice was served and that you can get
8 on with your life?
9 MS. LACY: I think any measure of justice was more
10 than I hoped for whenever this investigation started. My life
11 will never be normal regardless of what you decide today.
12 THE COURT: Okay. Thank you very much.
The victims knew that if they did not accept the sentence, Shiflet’s plea would be removed, and they would go to trial. They assented to the ruling.
There were many letters of support for Shiflet, and the judge would not release them to the public. Why?
THE COURT: And I should say for the record that I have read all of the letters that have been submitted,
and I’m going to make sure they are part of the record.
I will put them in the correspondence file. so they will be available to
the parties but not the public, unless anybody has any objection to that.
MS. Bryant?
MS. BRYANT: No, Your Honor.
THE COURT:
Mr. Ross, do you have an objection to that?
MR. ROSS:No objection, Your Honor.
His defense team used those letters to get a good plea deal.
And what we have supplied to the Court is a considerable amount of character letters
and support letters that cover an extended period of time that show what Mr. Shiflet has been
about over the last 15, 20 years and his conduct. And thatthere hasn t been any inclination
there hasn”t been any otherreports of any inappropriate behavior over this period of time.
And that he’s taken that time to, you know, continue to strengthen his family.His kids are grown
now.
Todd and I are suspicious that some of those support letters came from Denton Bible Church members and leaders since that is a pattern we have noticed and written about. In this case, Todd has written the judge to ask him to reconsider releasing those letters of support. In the meantime, I wonder if the victims in this trial might be amenable to viewing those letters and letting us know if the church wrote letters in support of their abuser.
Shiflet’s brother was also accused of pedophilia, raising questions.
THE COURT: All you need to do is say whatever you were going to say but just say it to me.
MS. LAVALLE:
okay.
You must be well aware now that Robert Shiflet. sr. both of his sons have been accused of
pedophile behavior. I wonder how both of his sons turned out to be this way,
I wonder were they also abused as children.Rob and his brother Tom were caught by their uncle
watching pornography together as young men.Tom said that it was given to him by his father.
whatever demonic stronghold to sexual addiction,pornographv, and child abuse going on in our home needs to
stop and be broken. All of vou a11 of them need to come clean, including your wives in their denial.
The victims address the Court and Shiflet.
If you only have time to read one, get to the final address by Kristine Lavalle. She was the one who reported Shiflet to Denton Bible Church. These testimonies stand on their own. You will learn much about victims and their strength to go on if you read them all. They are my heroes.
Brittany Lacy addresses Shiflet.
MS. LACY: My name is Brittany Lacy. I first want to
8 thank you for giving me the opportunity to speak today.
9 Believe it or not, this is a very sad occasion for me. There
10 are no winners here. Today, you face the consequences of this
11 in your life, but the victims you’ve hurt have already paid a
12 very high price.
13 I am less trusting of others. I doubt that other’s
14 motives and intentions are pure. I am less likely to believe
15 that people are innately good. You have affected my ability to
16 be intimate with others and not just physically. I tend to be
17 guarded because someone I trusted hurt me in a way that left
18 permanent scars.
19 I believed you when you told me you loved me in the purest
20 sense. I believed you when you said you couldn’t love me any
21 more if I was your own daughter. I believed that that is what
22 a father’s love looked like. It took me years to untangle all
23 of those lies.
24 I loved you like a dad. I would have done anything you
25 asked. You knew that, and you used those lies to exploit me
1 for your own selfish gain.
2 After I reported you to the church, you blamed me and have
3 continued to do so. I carried that responsibility for a long
4 time, but I won’t anymore.
5 I was a kid. You were my pastor, a father figure, and you
6 used that position to manipulate and exploit me. Even if you
7 are remorseful, you can never grasp the depth of the damage
8 you’ve caused to me, to the other women you’ve hurt, to our
9 families, to your own family.
10 It might surprise you to know that my reason for coming
11 forward never came from a place of resentment, bitterness,
12 anger, or even hatred towards you. I spent many years
13 struggling with those feelings. But by God’s grace and with
14 his help I forgave you a long time ago.
15 I feel like God has been very patient with you. He has
16 given you multiple opportunities over the years to repent of
17 this sin in your life. He has confronted you in the form of
18 friends, counselors, the church, and the law enforcement.
19 Unfortunately, I truly believe we’ve reached a critical
20 point when someone has to intervene. You really can’t control
21 yourself.
22 (The court reporter interrupted.)
23 THE COURT: Ma’am, I know you’re nervous. Anybody
24 would be in your situation. It’s just we’ve got to make sure
25 we got a good record.
1 MS. LACY: I truly believe we’ve reached a critical
2 point when someone has to intervene. You really can’t control
3 yourself. I don’t say that to relieve you of any
4 responsibility for your actions. I do feel at this point that
5 the most merciful thing that can be done is to put you in a
6 position where you can’t hurt anyone else. If I can save one
7 victim, then this was all worth it to me. And believe it or
8 not, it hasn’t been easy.
9 I would like to say that your victims, they are some of
10 the bravest, most encouraging, Christ-centered ladies that I
11 have ever had the pleasure of knowing. That is a testament to
12 their strength but even more so it is a testament to God’s
13 redemptive grace working in our lives. Only he can heal the
14 wounds you caused.
15 Before you brought it up, I also put in there, Your Honor,
16 if I may, I respectfully ask that you consider the full measure
17 of Mr. Shiflet’s offenses when you hand down his sentence
18 today.
Hayley Rigden addresses Shiflet
MS. RIGDON: I want to begin by saying I forgive you,
1 not because you have asked for my forgiveness or even deserve
2 it, but I will continue to choose forgiveness over bitterness.
3 I don’t think I ever let myself believe that you would actually
4 face consequences for what you did to me almost 25 years ago.
5 Sometimes I wonder if you really thought you were in the
6 clear and had everyone in your life duped. I trusted that the
7 Lord would be the vindicator, and I am so thankful that you
8 have now been exposed as the predator you are.
9 You dropped into my world and my family’s home on the
10 night of my 13th birthday party. Looking back, you started
11 grooming all of us day one. You made sure to target the people
12 surrounding me, my most trusted gatekeepers. You perverted
13 what I believe the Lord gave you as God-given gifts to be used
14 for his glory and had put you in a position of disciple making.
15 Instead, you chose to use these sacred gifts for
16 manipulation and exploitation. You cruelly abused your
17 position, and you used it to be a selfish and evil predator to
18 many young women.
19 The fact that — the fact that you chose to leave teaching
20 me about God and helping me grow more deeply in my faith and
21 doing it with the intention to gain all of my trust to abuse
22 me, psychologically and physically, is beyond my comprehension.
23 You tried to convince me that I had fault and ownership in what
24 you did to me. You were relentless.
25 Your calculated choices to be this predator has had a
1 ripple effect way beyond me. You groomed and lied to all the
2 people around me so strategically, and I know that they are
3 dealing with the pain of not being able to protect all of us
4 from you.
5 I’ve had to forgive 14-year-old Hayley for not speaking up
6 when you molested me. I wish more than anything that I could
7 have protected all of those girls that you hurt after me. I
8 know without a doubt that I did nothing to deserve or invite
9 this into my life. No one is responsible for what happened
10 except for you.
11 I do believe that Melissa stood silently and complicitly
12 and did nothing to protect us, but you are the predator. I did
13 not know that the psychological consequences would last this
14 long. I have come to learn that, despite walking through great
15 counseling, that my brain and nervous system would continue to
16 be impacted to this day. The trauma that you caused in my
17 young life rewired my developing brain to involuntary
18 self-protect and be hypervigilant for any perceived threat,
19 among other things.
20 I know that more healing is possible over time, but this
21 physiological and emotional damage has caused suffering that
22 lasted well beyond the events of your abuse.
23 I am so thankful for the healing that I have experienced
24 and for the beautiful life and family that God has given me.
25 God has remained so faithful to me.
1 My prayer is that your heart will be softened before the
2 Lord and true repentance comes. I have no wish for harm in
3 your life, but I do pray justice is served for the decades of
4 trauma and pain that you have caused.
5 I want to thank Jerry Spurgers and Kristin Bryant and
6 their teams for taking on our case and getting us to this
7 monumental point today.
Kyle Rigden, Hayley’s husband, gives a poignant address to Shiflet
I did not prepare a written letter. I
8 actually decided to speak today, and so forgive me. It may not
9 be as polished as Brittany and Hayley.
10 Rob, you’ve never met me. But I met Hayley ten years ago,
11 and it was the greatest gift of my life. What I can tell you
12 is that you stole from my wife. And what I’ve come to find out
13 since is that you’ve stolen from a whole lot more people than
14 just my wife.
15 I don’t know how many letters you submitted today, but I
16 am very grateful for your sake that we’re in Arkansas because,
17 if we were in our hometown, this courtroom would be packed full
18 of character witnesses on the other side of your cube letters.
19 Your Honor, I completely agree that the way that we’re
20 speaking about what happened to these girls so many years ago
21 is unfair.
22 The same way that you stole from them was unfair. The
23 sentencing process is unfair. Twenty years goes by, it doesn’t
24 change the crime. It doesn’t change what you’ve robbed from
25 them.
1 What I can tell you is, in the happiest moments of our
2 marriage, our child being born, the day that we got married,
3 monumental parts of our life, you have some way of creeping
4 into these ladies’ minds.
5 And so whatever happens today with sentencing, my hope and
6 my prayer is that you have nothing but time to think about your
7 actions, the way that it’s affected them, the same way that
8 what you did to them haunts them to this day, even after hours
9 and hours and hours of counseling and processing this with
10 friends and seeing pastors, and the list goes on and on, as you
11 can imagine. The same way that this haunts us consistently for
12 the last ten years and for them 25-plus years ago, I hope that
13 this haunts you in the quiet of a cell, haunts you the same way
14 that it’s haunted them in their lows and in their highs.
15 Whatever happens today will be unfair. What I do pray for
16 you is that the Lord absolutely wrecks your heart in the midst
17 of those quiet times because you and I both know that this
18 courtroom has nothing on what the Lord can do when he gets
19 ahold of somebody’s heart. That’s all, Your Honor
Finally, Kristine Lavalle, who reported this to Denton Bible Church addressed Shiflet
Rob, we’re all here today because you chose to sexually
6 abuse, molest, rape, manipulate, spiritually and emotionally
7 abused teenage girls. You stole childhood innocence for your
8 own sexual fulfillment.
9 I am the brave 19-year-old girl who told her counselor at
10 Ditton Bible about your power, abuse against me. I also
11 invited Brittany to Texas to tell her story. Had religious
12 leaders not covered for you and the church and Liberty
13 Christian School, you could have been arrested 15 years ago.
14 I told the police how you took advantage of my emotional
15 and physical boundaries as a 13-year-old girl. You rubbed your
16 feet up and down my legs under the dinner table while I was
17 paralyzed to say anything in front of your wife. Your tickled
18 me and didn’t stop when I told you to. You made me lay down
19 with you on the couch while you wrapped your arms and legs
20 around me after your wife went to sleep.
21 You forced your hands on my neck, sides, lower back, and
22 face, and you whispered in my ears — you told me you loved me.
23 You asked me if your touch was okay, and you iced me out
24 emotionally if I said, “No.”
25 Manipulation, spiritual and emotional manipulation. You
1 are the very man who taught me textbook purity culture about
2 dating, marriage, physical touch, sex, turn — and you turned
3 out to be sexually abusing teenage girls in my youth group at
4 the same time. This breaks the very heart of God.
5 Your selfish criminal behavior caused me years of trauma,
6 tears, anxiety, depression, grief, questioning, money for hours
7 of counseling, medical leave from my job, hours on the phone
8 talking to other victims, my family, lawyers, police, and the
9 FBI. What an absolute waste of my time and energy, an absolute
10 waste — I’m sorry.
because you wanted sexual
13 gratification from children. Instead of addressing your sexual
14 brokenness, you indulged yourself, and you hid.
15 Unfortunately, it took the teenagers you abused to grow up
16 into adult women in our thirties to call the police on you.
17 You’re a pathological liar, a sex offender, a federal prisoner,
18 and incredibly selfish.
19 You will have plenty of time in jail to repent, reflect,
20 and be real with yourself and God about what you have done
21 should you choose to. You lied to your wife. You lied to your
22 parents. You lied to your children. You lied to all of us,
23 the community of Ditton Bible Church and Liberty Christian
24 School. You lied. You’re a threat to society and not a safe
25 person.
1 To your father, Robert Shiflet, your oldest son Tom
2 recently admitted to sexually abusing his cousin when she was
3 ages three to six years old. You must be well aware that both
4 of your sons have been accused of pedophile behavior.
5 MR. ROSS: Your Honor, I’m going to object to any
6 addressing of the father in this.
7 THE COURT: Why don’t you address the Court.
8 MS. LAVALLE: To the Court, it must be well aware
9 that Robert Shiflet’s —
10 THE COURT: It’s okay. Take your time. It’s fine.
11 MS. LAVALLE: Like just another casual day in
12 America.
13 THE COURT: All you need to do is say whatever you
14 were going to say but just say it to me.
15 MS. LAVALLE: Okay. You must be well aware now that
16 Robert Shiflet, Sr. — both of his sons have been accused of
17 pedophile behavior. I wonder how both of his sons turned out
18 to be this way. I wonder were they also abused as children.
19 Rob and his brother Tom were caught by their uncle
20 watching pornography together as young men. Tom said that it
21 was given to him by his father.
22 Whatever demonic stronghold to sexual addiction,
pornography, and child abuse going on in your home needs to
24 stop and be broken. All of you — all of them need to come
25 clean, including your wives in their denial.
1 Melissa, I also hold you responsible for this mess. You
2 have kept silent and turned a blind eye to your husband’s
3 pattern of pedophilia. Why did you get up and go to sleep and
4 leave me alone with your husband in the living room when I was
5 a teenage girl. I managed to get away that night and laid
6 awake so anxious I could vomit, fearing I would be raped if I
7 fell asleep. I was traumatized.
8 Over and over his pattern continued. Where were you?
9 What did you do to confront it? What negligence on your behalf
10 not to call out your husband and save teenage girls from his
11 oppression, especially Brittany. You have continued to stand
12 by your husband after multiple confrontations by the church,
13 police detectives investigating your home and your family, and
14 you continued, till date, to stand by him like you are today
15 sticking up for him. Your husband is a criminal. It’s time
16 for you to wake up. You are part of the problem.
17 Quite frankly, I wish nothing to hear from your family.
18 Your denial would only add insult to injury. I don’t even
19 think it’s fair to really hear Rob’s side at this point, unless
20 he’s confessing his guilt. You’ve desecrated the church, the
21 name of God as a pastor, and you are a wolf in sheep’s
22 clothing.
23 I am choosing to forgive you for the abuse, pain, and
24 suffering you have caused me because Jesus has forgiven me. I
25 cancel the debt you owe me by the blood of Jesus and release
1 you from how badly you’ve hurt me whether you are repentant or
2 not.
3 Legally, you are responsible for the crimes you’ve
4 committed and the punishment you deserve consequently. The
5 trauma you’ve caused cannot be undone.
6 Jesus alone heals me and stands with me in righteous
7 anger. I can only imagine how he feels compared to the amount
8 of righteous anger I feel against you.
9 I beg God’s mercy on your lives to convict you of your
10 sin, to bring confession, repentance, and healing for all of
11 you.
12 This is my story of redemption: forgiving you and finding
13 healing from all the damage you have done. Jesus gets all the
14 glory he is due, and no one will steal his joy from me.
15 I am almost done.
16 THE COURT: No. Take your time.
17 MS. LAVALLE: Okay. Today ends. I’ve been waiting
18 for this day 20 years. Today ends a dark era that has followed
19 me for 20 years. Hopefully, today ends. Let some Earthly
20 justice be served, and we will celebrate it.
21 I slept so soundly the day that you got arrested. I
22 haven’t slept that well since I was 13, knowing that you were
23 put away, to my knowledge, away from society, away from
24 tormenting other teenage girls.
25 I am so proud of myself and all the victims for our
1 bravery and encouraged to be resilient and share our story.
2 I feel incredibly privileged — I feel incredibly
3 privileged to have a government that believed us and pursued
4 justice on our half — our behalf. It only took two hard,
5 exhausting years to complete.
6 Even to stand up here today and to say our final thoughts
7 is so empowering and vulnerable. These were the most
8 exhausting, emotionally draining, upsetting, infuriating,
9 disgusting, annoying, disappointing, retraumatizing, and
10 successful years of my life.
11 Your Honor, I besiege you on behalf of the victims, our
12 communities, and the law to commit Rob Shiflet for the greatest
13 amount of jail time possible. He’s been confronted multiple
14 times and denied it or found a way out of legal prosecution for
15 years.
16 Let this be an example to the global church. You cannot
17 silence the voice of childhood victims of sexual abuse because
18 you’re afraid, value fame over honesty, are uneducated or
19 passive about what to do. This negligence left the door open
20 for more children to be abused in the last 15 years. That is
21 completely unacceptable and cannot be tolerated.
22 I imagine if there are more victims after Brittany, maybe
23 even Rob’s children or their friends, I hope they will find
24 their voices and use them one day, too. He is a repeat
25 offender with a pattern of behavior that has not been exposed
57
1 until now. He is a threat to society and women of all age —
2 ages.
3 Thank you, Your Honor, for your diligence in this case and
4 for hearing me today because this story matters very much.
“… we learned that the church knew about Shiflet’s predilections and chose to overlook them, presumably because the pastor, Tommy Nelson, had NEVER heard the word “pedophile” until 2005 when he was forced to deal with Shiflet’s behavior …” (Dee)
Well, as far as I’m concerned, I wish the American church had never heard the words “Tommy Nelson” and other church leaders like him who have overlooked pedophiles on staff, enabling them, ignoring their victims, and passing them to other churches to repeat their crimes.
From Ms. Rigdon’s testimony:
“You perverted what I believe the Lord gave you as God-given gifts to be used for his glory and had put you in a position of disciple making. Instead, you chose to use these sacred gifts for manipulation and exploitation.”
I have trouble believing that God, in His foreknowledge, gave Mr. Shiflet any spiritual gifts. IMO, he went into the ministry with an objective to prey on the vulnerable. He didn’t forfeit any gifts from God, he never had them. He manipulated and exploited because that’s what his father, the father of lies, does. There was nothing sacred about Mr. Shiflet’s journey through the church.
Instead of looking at such pastors as falling from grace, we should consider that they never knew Grace. Being ordained into ministry, having hands of mere men laid on you to confirm you, doesn’t mean that God’s hand is upon you. Holding the title of pastor doesn’t mean that the Creator of the Universe put you in that position.
It seems that there are daily reports of “men of God” who have committed god-awful sins, some spanning back decades. Let’s face it, these men knew exactly what they were doing when they chose ministry – they knew they would be trusted, that their churches would provide hunting grounds for their perversion. IMO, we have only seen the tip of the iceberg on abuse in the American church.
Agree with you on both points, Max.
In Dee’s previous post on Quarterback Tommy Nelson, AbuseCrusher pointed out in the comment section the ties between some of these pastors and Kamp Kanakuk. It is my personal belief that there is a vast, behind-the-scenes network of pedophiles among many evangelical pastors, not unlike what we have seen among Roman Catholic priests.
“I do believe that Melissa stood silently and complicitly
12 and did nothing to protect us,”
– Hayley Rigden, addressing the criminal wife, yes complicit.
“Melissa, I also hold you responsible for this mess. You
2 have kept silent and turned a blind eye to your husband’s
3 pattern of pedophilia. Why did you get up and go to sleep and
4 leave me alone with your husband in the living room when I was
5 a teenage girl. I managed to get away that night and laid
6 awake so anxious I could vomit, fearing I would be raped if I
7 fell asleep. I was traumatized.
8 Over and over his pattern continued. Where were you?
9 What did you do to confront it? What negligence on your behalf
10 not to call out your husband and save teenage girls from his
11 oppression, especially Brittany. You have continued to stand
12 by your husband after multiple confrontations by the church,
13 police detectives investigating your home and your family, and
14 you continued, till date, to stand by him like you are today
15 sticking up for him. Your husband is a criminal. It’s time
16 for you to wake up. You are part of the problem.
17 Quite frankly, I wish nothing to hear from your family.
18 Your denial would only add insult to injury.”
– Kristine Lavalle addressing the wife, the pedophile’s partner in crime.
Todd, the average pewsitter doesn’t believe that the devil goes to church, too … and even shows up in the pulpit here and there. There’s not enough discernment in most churches to detect bad boys in the pew, let alone the pulpit. We’ve got to get over blindly trusting pastors and elders … keep your eyes open, folks.
This darkness … this evil … affects everything it touches. IMO, pedophilia among church leaders is not a psychiatric disorder, it is demonic … it comes to steal, kill and destroy faith among the youngest and most vulnerable in church.
It’s rampant, it’s endemic, it’s systemic.
There’s a reason: the idolatry of the hierarchical setup of a man in charge with neither surveillance nor accountability coupled with the denial of voice to minors and the gender deemed as second class (thus less than human).
Thank you for including the victims’ statements to the court. You’re right, they’re powerful and far more deserving of “air time.”
Would the church include victims’ statements? Would any church include the victims’ statements?
No? Well, that’s a tell. A big tell.
Not the Body of Christ, obviously. “church” in name only. Nothing to do with Jesus.
It wouldn’t surprise me if both the defense attorney and the DA wanted this case to go away quietly because of the influence of this church and of the many letter writers in the county. Why yes, I’m jaded.
The photo at the top obviously reveals a TIE Fighter in front of the sun. The ISS label fools no one. Please stop covering for The Empire.
Christians have their own Ghislaine Maxwell.
A girl will trust a woman. A woman will betray a girl, for a monster. The woman is a criminal partner.
Max,
This is because, just as in the Rome fold, the things that got deliberately discredited by distorted caricature by church authorities are:
prayer
belief
Holy Scripture meaning
sound ecclesiology
Holy Spirit gifts
Kingdom of heaven (the actual one)
providence
eschatology (the real one I mean)
Thereby destroying any soul competence / priesthood in believers.
The perfect set-up for an abuser-wannabe desiring to go into the ministry. How many are in seminary right now?
They should be a Sunday morning bulletin insert for all to see. We don’t expose these bad-boys enough when they are exposed.
IMO, we have more churches in name only across the American landscape, than the gathered Body of Christ. The authority and influence of Jesus is waning in the American church.
Jeff Albertson,
May the Force be with you. 🙂
I love this idea. Maybe we should start a vigilante group who sneaks into a church and slips them into a bulletin.
So am I, friend.
I had the same thought.
Every one of these cases is another nail in the coffin that contains any faith I had as a believer.
And every time an apostate throws in the towel, we often influence our families and those within our sphere.
Since I ceased any religious activities, the whole family’s religiosity has decreased.
My wife (who remains a believer) and children don’t attend as much as they used to.
And there’s a lot of Christians who attend because of family or social networking. They dial it in, usually leaving after those networks weaken, kids grow up, retirement, whatever.
As a citizen, I support these clowns being held accountable to the fullest extent of the law.
Ultimately the root cause needs to be addressed by the rank and file people who adhere to the faith.
As long as people continue to support these leaders then secularization will continue apace, and Christianity will be relegated to a fringe cult.
The “great commission” is failing.
My faith (such as it is) was never contingent on what the clowns say and do.
It exists separately and on its own merits based on free and independent thought.
The clowns don’t want me around any more than the other side (progressive) does.
The “great commission” isn’t failing … the “great commissioners” are
dee,
TWW ‘is’ their bulletin if they would read it.
The insert could simply say “Wolves in shepherd’s clothing … read all about it at thewartburgwatch.com”
Nah. I vote for putting up bulletin boards on interstates and highways near churches like Denton…….. with just a breif statement about how the church protects pedophiles and sexual abusers.
Maybe include a photo of Jack Nicholson from The Shining.
A lot of churches really deserve the “publicity”
Could a body get sued for doing that?
Free and independent thought also led me in the opposite direction.
Serious question. How does the great commission work without commissioners?
People do not spontaneously come to Jesus or the world would be 100% Christian. Wouldn’t need missionaries.
Fortunately, not all great commissioners are failing to take the great commision forward. However, many in the church tasked with that responsibility are.
Holy Smokes!
So Tom, Rob Shiflet’s brother, is ALSO an acknowledged child molester?!? How on earth was he (with Rob) working at Liberty Christian School with kids?!? (Note this was after Rob had been removed from 2 church positions for his abhorrent behavior with young girls!) Moreover, has anyone checked into Tom’s international children’s ministry and whether either of the Shiflet boys were abusing those young, vulnerable girls? This is absurd and appalling!
Now, questions REALLY need to get asked..with no fear of unfairly impugning an “innocent” man. This molester was on staff at a Christian school and was running an international adoption/rescue ministry. Questions must be asked!!!
Quoting myself from previous blog post comments:
“Tom Shiflet ran/runs an international rescue/adoption ministry called The Great Need (you can put thegreatneed.COM in the Wayback Machine, as the site seems to have been taken down). I fully hate to impune Tom Shiflet, as he may well be innocent, but given that he may have known of brother Rob’s issues and still let him around the Liberty kids, I think it must be asked, “What contact (if any) did Rob Shiflet have with the kids in that international rescue ministry?” Is that rescue legit, or was it a used for sex trafficking? I hope it was legit.
I hate to ask those questions, but responsible adults must! And my experience with churches and parachurches tells me to not at all be surprised if the whole organization was a front. I’m saddened to think so, but to not ask the question is to bury our heads in the sand. If Jeffrey Epstein had a brother with an international children’s rescue, we’d certainly ask some hard questions.”
Right. Because, even as we properly excoriate Denton Bible, it is very much worth noting that many of Rob Shiflet’s molester offences took place while he was a youth pastor at Fellowship Bible Church in Little Rock.
Fellowship-Little Rock is the mothership of a huge network of these churches that have participated in sex crime coverups (e.g. hiring prolific Kanakuk child molester Pete Newman AFTER he’d been arrested for multiple molestations and was out on bail, threatening whistleblowers, etc).
Fellowship Little Rock is home base for Dennis Rainey’s Family Life Ministries. Perhaps, that is why there has been NO MENTION by local press in Little Rock of Fellowship Little Rock’s involvement in this, despite the articles of Shiflet’s arrest. Doesn’t basic reporting require that it is asked “where” in Arkansas this took place?
It is also true that the great commissionED are failing. It is not enough to point at our “leaders”…we are also culpable by supporting these buffoons. Every time we let our own pastors be silent (not only about their own church issues, but for not calling out their pastoral brethren for their wicked misdeeds), we are contributing to the problem.
A modest proposal: each of us refuses to attend or financially support a church/pastor/parachurch until they begin stridently draining the pastoral swamp and calling out the wicked pastoral offenders by name.
Perhaps, an “Empty Collection Plate” November would do the trick. Withhold your tithes, offerings, and attendance from organized churches and pastors that don’t take a stand. Instead, use your time and money that would have been dedicated to these (even mild-mannered) parasites and give it to a homeless shelter, help a struggling community member put food on their table or pay their rent, etc.
If we mobilized something like this, we’d hit the wicked/willfully-ignorant where it hurts and I suspect make a number of unbelievers think differently about those of us professing to follow Jesus. Could be a revival by church freeze-out.
True.
Opting out is everyone’s right. I’ve done that. Later I availed myself of the right to rely on my own judgment and to worship with a healthy congregation that has safeguards against abuse.
If a church is not a building, then let us call it a group of people. Harming spiritual oases and refuges would harm the people who freely choose to worship together—as well as the communities they serve.
From the OP:
Diversion alert: One perceptive reader commented that she never paid attention to the Song of Solomon because Solomon had 900 hundred wives and 200 concubines. “Nelson explained this, but I didn’t buy it back then and still do not. It went something like this.
“This points to the fact that the Song of Solomon is the story of Solomon’s first marriage, before he sinned by adding many other wives (1 Kings 11:3). Whoever the Shulammite was, she was Solomon’s first and truest love.”
————————–
1 Kings 11:3 — The New International Version (NIV)
“3 He had seven hundred wives of royal birth and three hundred concubines, and his wives led him astray.”
The message about sin is certainly in the chapter, but it has to do with having hundreds of wives and concubines from other religions.
Are our current-day sickos blaming their numerous victims for being numerous, and not Christian enough?
It’s good to be a free thinker.
Beholden to none and believing in one’s own self.
Evangelical pastors pointing fingers and piously intoning “We thank Thee, LOOOOOOORD, that WE are nothing like those filthy Romish Papist Priests over there.”
Ava Aaronson,
AVA,
one has to feel very sorry for what Kristine Lavalle was put through – I can’t imagine her terror at finding herself in that situation
May God have mercy on the young girls who are victimized by these predators AND THE PREDATOR’S wives –
that is shocking to hear about, but why am I surprised knowing how in ‘patriarchy’ some wives ‘look the other way’ (reminds me of Josh Duggar’s wife) –
is this a ‘pattern’ in patriarchal cults? where the wife is in effect a co-predator?
Let me address in depth what others here have touched on lightly. Let’s look at the logic of the arguments that you use. I know something about logic. I have a degree in computer programming and I use a picture of Spock for my account I use elsewhere on Warren’s blog. There is a reason for that.
Now forgive me but what I have seen from your comments is that you are disillusioned with Christianity so much so that you have left it. Most others here are also disillusioned with what is leveraged in the name of Jesus Christ but not so much that we think the whole thing is evil. It is common for men and women to judge individual groups by their worst and often times most hypocritical examples within them. Yet is this fair or even logical?
You have said many times that you are an atheist. So have you taken the same measure that you have judged Christianity and applied it to your new religion? Some of us have acquaintances, friends or family members who while claiming to be Christians have molested children to the shock and surprise of us. This is a horrible thing. Is this also true in Atheism? How many atheists who have claimed superior moral fiber have done horrible things? Have you researched this?
Kings and rulers who claimed to be Christians have done horrible things–true. Are Atheists better? Has anyone killed more people ruthlessly than Mao and Stalin? Their religion was atheism, was it not? How many conmen are atheists? Mass murderers? Rapists? How many in jail and death row are atheists?
So if you care to be logically consistent and not join a religion with horrible people as members, why choose Atheism? It has more blood on its hands if Mao and Stalin are included. You may have to keep searching. Or it could be that humans love to lie and that they can grow up within any race, religion, or sub-group and then do horrible things that their race, religion or sub-group condemn and even punish. In my mind you may have jumped out of the boiling pot into the fire with Atheism for even Hitler who was a spiritist could not kill as many people as a few of them have managed to. I say this as you appear to be claiming the higher moral ground in your arguments. But what kind of ground are you actually standing on? State atheism has done horrible things. Is the Atheism to blame?
This happens, including with international organizations and missionary work, as you note.
Power, profit, and pleasure (which can be vice).
Brother Andrew (God’s Smuggler) just passed away on Sept. 27th in his native Holland, age 94.
The organization he founded, Open Door, now based in Southern Cal, morphed into the Profit, Power, Pleasure mode some time ago, under leadership distant from the founder. https://www.billionbibles.com/open-doors-brother-andrew.html
The Open Door leaders today use Brother Andrew’s name, story, and legacy for their purposes of Profit, Power, and Pleasure. 58% of donations supports the home office overhead. Etc.
Voice of the Martyrs, Gospel for Asia, and Open Door all have the same template of morphing into a profit org for leaders, distant from their founders.
Fortunately, Corrie ten Boom never founded an org. Her work ended at her passing and her story is free to watch on Amazon Prime, to inspire but never to front for false purposes.
Actors would have no stage if it weren’t for an audience scrambling to buy tickets to the show.
Whoa, Mr. Spock! Atheism is not a religion.
If you’re going to blame atheism for the world’s evils, you might logically blame men, since the three destructive historic figures you name were all men. You could also blame authoritarians and despots. However, that might cause you to realize that authoritarians and despots use any means to gain and hold power, sometimes imposing a religion, and sometimes crushing a religion. Several of the most familiar religions have been spread partly by force, but I’ll stop there, because the Force is not a Star Trek thing.
Mr. Jesperson,
Jack,
My guess, Jack, is that you are an agnostic as to baggage. That’s how I see us “free thinkers” around “christian” religion. We aren’t package dealers and neither was Jesus (oops should I have mentioned that).
Our central event was Ascension, and Jesus sent gifts differing without veto. What proportion of churches teach that? Zero. Some live it, but, without the true talk, that is in risk of dwindling.
The actual “great” commission, and the actual “so great” salvation, are . . . well . . . so great . . .
The 19 th century system described by Timothy Gloege, of selling premium oats and premium religion was on a basis of jealousy panned by St Paul.
The New Calvinists in America are out and about to do just that.
“Tommy Nelson had NEVER heard the word “pedophile””
It seems that everyone in America have heard about pedophiles but the American pulpit!
If they admit knowing something, they might be obliged to do something.
See no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil, … selectively.
… confront no evil
Mr. Jesperson,
https://www.richardcarrier.info/archives/11792
Hitler wasn’t an atheist and in fact- opposed atheism.
Ava Aaronson,
And book a never-ending Egyptian River Cruise.
I have encountered people who deny reality even when it’s in front of their face. It’s happening in front of them in plain sight yet to them It Does Not Exist, It Never Existed.
i.e. “Ignorance is Bliss and I WANT EUPHORIA!”
How can you communicate with someone who lives and moves and has their being in a completely Alternative Reality of Alternative Facts? (Especially when those Alternative Facts include “YOU Worship SATAN and Eat Children!”?)
“THE DWARFS ARE FOR THE DWARFS! WE WON’T BE TAKEN IN!”
If we’re talking literally, I’m standing…
“… on a planet that’s evolving
And revolving at nine hundred miles an hour
That’s orbiting at nineteen miles a second, so it’s reckoned
A sun that is the source of all our power”
– Monty Python “the Meaning of Life – Galaxy Song”
In her monologue “Letting go of God”, Julia Duffy’s mom told her that she didn’t have a problem with Julia not believing in God as long as she didn’t become an atheist.
The designation atheist is a person who does not believe in God.
I’ve shed the term “Christian” because I don’t believe the bible happened as written.
If you don’t believe that the resurrection actually happened – which is the cornerstone of Christianity then you aren’t Christian.
I think a lot of the problems with all fundamentalist Christianities is biblical literalism. It takes the faith down some really dark roads which are discussed here.
Christians who rise above the old testament madness (as in love your neighbor, don’t judge others, use their power for goodness and niceness) are of the type of Christianity that I was raised in.
I wish they were more critical of their coreligionists (the great irony is the jerk Christianities don’t consider the nice ones Christian)
Biblical literalism is the millstone around Christianity’s neck. It drags the conversation literally to the stone age.
My issue is the weaponization of the bible. How it is being used to harm good people.
There’s a lot to unpack in your comment. The concept of atheism has already been explained above by some other folks.
Live long and prosper.
Yes, that, too.
Pass the plate, collect from the giving units, and never offend [predators] who are donating, or potential donors.
“You know, lad, truth sometimes requires more courage than lies,” said a German officer to a child soldier who questioned how could Germany possibly lose the war and surrender.
Let me clarify.
I hold to the tenets of The Apostle’s Creed as non-negotiable parameters up front and on the table.
The stuff beyond that?
Say the doctrine of PSA (penal substitutionary atonement)?
I no longer buy into it, and that’s what I meant by believing in my own conscience.
wickedness in high places
Mr. Jesperson,
But Mr Jesperson, would you join the ranks of those who would spruce up the morals of the christian leaders, or would you espouse the radically different meanings of Scripture and Ascension that Jesus, St Paul, Jeremiah et al derive? Jack may not have had the chance to advance far in exploring the latter: does your church help people there? I admire all the Josh Harrises who declare atheism in order to give themselves space to breathe.
In Eusebius of Caesarea’s (c. 260/265 – 339) view, the atonement changes us; it does not appease God.
Imagine if this were allowed in churches.
I mean, we do repeat The Apostles’ Creed together, which should mean we are basically on the same page.
But just imagine if debate beyond the basics was permitted. IMHO, that’s progressiveness, in a positive way, and would alleviate some of the absolutely necessary deconstructionism because: open discourse (while agreeing on the basics). IOW, none of the authoritarian strongman-ism in power, profit, pleasure (sometimes vice) would flourish.
According to Kristin Du Mez’s “Jesus and John Wayne”, America loves the strongman, gotta have the strongman flanked by his cutesy bubbly princess (reminds me of a certain Beth, not her really, but comes to mind), fight the culture wars, the commies, and the god-denying libs.
I attend a small Lutheran (ELCA) congregation in my town, and yes we do recite The Apostle’s Creed every Sunday, it’s part of the Liturgy.
We have everything from young couples with kids to old god-hating liberals like myself (sarcasm).
There’s no tribal strongman in the pulpit, and you won’t get beat over the head with some obscure verse outta’ 1st Kings.
Afterwards, there’s coffee and donuts with great people.
Reminds me of The Football Star Quarterback and his (Bubble)Head Cheerleader.
(Never mind when you add 20 years of Entropy you get Married with Children.)
High School really messed me up bad; FIFTY years ago and it can still come into mind. One of the worst seasons of my life.
Muff Potter,
What you’re describing is typical of older Liturgical churches.
Though with mind, never mind the donuts, if one of the ethnic ministries are doing a fundraiser it’ll be street tacos, homestyle enchiladas, or (if we’re lucky) homemade tamales!
Also very Jewish.
Where Rabbi Aleph has one angle on a passage, Rabbi Beth has another, Rabbi Gimel still another, and the Rabbis keep hashing it out and recording their observations – “two Jews, three Opinions” but somehow it all usually works out without weaponization.
I consider myself fairly well read. In addition to reading the bible, I’ve read the Koran, the book of Mormon, the Gnostic gospels & and most of the Archie comics digest library.
Amazing how that can follow you through the years. I did confront my bullies, it was five on one in their favor. You know how the hero rises? Didn’t happen, lol, got the stuffing beat out of me, but they left me alone after that.
Muff Potter,
This mirrors the progressive Christianity I was raised in.
For me, free thinking and Christianity are not mutually exclusive.
It’s not about liberal or conservative, it’s about coming to your beliefs honestly and not being a jerk to those who are different.
My wife is a believer, my good friends are Christian, they are secure in their faith that they don’t need to beat others with it.
Those that weaponize faith are insecure in their beliefs, they can’t handle challenges.
Probably because you put up a decent fight.
At least you’re not still there.
Some folks seem to hit their sweet spot in high school, then stay in high school mode FOREVER.
Grownups still acting like jocks and cheerleaders right up through middle age and beyond … is highly entertaining yet kinda pathetic, actually.
It happens.
Homecoming queens, forever. HS basketball champ, forever. Hit a home run once. Won the spelling bee. Set the school record for the 100yd dash.
Jack,
Yes good. My favourite philosopher is Epicurus (in his writings). I meant the way the gifts were distributed to us without veto at Ascension. Part of my ideas comes from Samuel Conner; part of them just osmosed. I got almost nothing of them from any churches, except an out of the way little church I only went to once.
I actually consider myself as an agnostic because I don’t carry organisational baggage and I don’t package deal. I look for actual Bible meanings which christians aren’t “supposed” to do these days (and the ones I find are different from everybody else’s). No church I blatantly infiltrate, can bring themselves to ask me to leave.
I suppose I was trying to head off those who were trying to give you a “stern talking to”. The entire Bible is a tract against bad religion. The entire Bible is a tract in defence of orphans and widows. Read what Jeremiah had to say about Josiah’s bodged triumphalistic “revival”, just like that of the resurgents, hegemonists and dominionists.
Bibles used to variously translate Rom 12:1 both “reasonable service” and “spiritual service” because my God’s gospel is rational not the quaint arbitrary nonsense that gets parrotted by churches not yet “considered scandalous”. Because if they don’t talk the walk – set example by straight speech – their walk isn’t going to last longer than the last lot of denominations I saw go down the drain.
Orphans who trade gifts with each other will build up each other’s integrity to get them through a dark day (living sacrifice) which will be their crowns. Bad leaders traced in the writings of T Gloege and K K Du Mez, so called pro and anti “charismatic” alike, discredited Holy Spirit.
Yeah. “I was a Football Star in High School; Once I Scored THREE Touchdowns in One Game.”
Not only is this the appeal of Twilight (Sparkle Sparkle) and the premise of the Robin Williams Movie The Best of Times, but my informants who HAVE attended 20-30 year High School Reunions have reported it for real. Guys who 20-30 years down the road can only talk about their High School days.
When Twilight had Author Self-Insert Bella get “Embraced” as a teen so she could be in High School FOREVER, holding court at the KEWL Kids Table with Sparkling Eddie FOREVER, all I could think of was “Her High School career must have been WAAAAY different from mine”.
Type example (with added T&A), Married with Children.
Because the Christianese Bubble can get so stifling and oppressive (if you’re not a brainless bubbly Worship Bot) that you want to get as far away from it as possible.
I’m a compulsive creative with a hyperactive brain. One of the side effects of my two-three years in country was for years afterwards in order to create, I had to push God completely out of the picture. Only then could my compulsive creativity surface. When I first described this effect back on Internet Monk, I got a reply comment that “You could only Create when you closed yourself off completely from the Source of Creation”. That was the side effect and aftereffect.
Like the punch line at the end of the first Father Brown Mystery, where Fr Brown explains how he saw through a master thief’s clerical disguise:
“You attacked Reason. That’s bad Theology.”
They are probably all New Calvinist pastors now … beating the spiritual life out of church members.
How dated!
One became a dentist, one of them went to prison, one became an engineer and apparently married a woman who beat the stuffing out of him. The other ones I don’t know about.
you were lucky to survive that beating
Don’t know how decent it was. It was dead of winter. I took a shot at the biggest guy and whap. His parka absorbed the punch. After that it was pretty much a beat down. Only in Steven Seagal movies do the bad guys line up one at a time so you can fight them fair.
But I didn’t turn them in & word must have got out because people in general were a lot nicer.
There’s no bragging rights when you beat up a bookworm.
Back then, when someone was beat, then the beatdown stopped. Lol, one guy had a nice jacket, I bled all over it. Made a real mess.
The bible is what you make of it.
For every passage, there’s a counter passage.
The problem is people think it is a how to manual. It’s going to put your life together like furniture from IKEA.
But it won’t, on its own.
I think theology has a place in faith because that’s the lens through which you view scriptures.
Theology that interprets the bible literally will come to some pretty nasty conclusions.
Not too worried about stern talking to’s
Michael in UK,
We still love ‘Father Brown’ on this side of the pond.
Something oddly comforting about that show . . . 🙂
Jesus is Jewish.
Well put Jack and I concur.
Hard-core fundamentalism is as loopy as over cooked pasta.
christiane,
I was “ironically impersonating” the sadly dominant fideists from since early church times, plus everyone on the Vatican side since centralisation.