“The more that we choose not to talk about domestic violence, the more we shy away from the issue, the more we lose.” ― Russell Wilson
Please see the updated title. The listing of firearms is at the end of the post.
Julie Anne Smith and I have spoken with J.D. Hall off and on through the years. We have consistently urged him to be kind and thoughtful in his actions. I was also involved in the Braxton Caner suicide. You can read about it here. Although it is quite complicated, I can say that at least one primary family member does not blame Hall for what happened. I know the whole story, and I cannot comment on it for many good reasons. There has been repentance. However, the situation raised our concern about Hall’s judgment. We’ve maintained occasional contact with Hall. He often referred to us as “the survivor gal pals.” I am saddened to have to report the following.
Several months ago, I looked at a picture of him. I noticed that he had lost a lot of weight and looked unwell to me. But I brushed it off, thinking he may have been on a diet. In June, some concerning answers were provided.
The Xanax incident
Story #1
Here is how it was presented in a myriad of media reports. In May, Hall was stopped by police because he was swerving in his car. He claimed he had a severe Vitamin D deficiency. He was arrested for DUI. His alcohol level was reportedly normal. He offered to step down from his church because of the embarrassment. His church refused his resignation but put him on leave to recuperate. From The Christian Post:
Hall, who is now scheduled to appear in the Sidney City Court on June 6 at 9 a.m., also had a Smith & Wesson M&P 2.0 Shield handgun which was found under his coat in an inside-the-waistband holster during his arrest, the report added.
…The deacons and elders met … and rejected his (Hall’s) resignation in consultation with three well-respected and Godly pastors of other churches, as it was unanimously determined that, as no alcohol was used and Pastor Hall’s coordination/health issues have been well known, this unfortunate incident was not ministerially disqualifying,” Fellowship Baptist Church said.
Read the next part carefully:
The church further noted that: “The deacons, elders, and consulted pastors were apprised of Pastor Hall’s prescription medication, health issues, and spiritual, emotional, and physical state, and expressed great concern for his health and overworking.”
They concluded that “Hall was exhausted, potentially addicted to working, and must rest, do nothing for 3 months, and change his phone number (to not be bothered by outsiders).”
My husband and I took the story apart. Coincidentally, I had a severe Vitamin D deficiency a few years back, which did not result in DUIs or slurred speech. I believe that the baloney about Hall’s Vitamin D deficiency was covering for another issue. Given my concern about his weight loss, we proceeded to “bet” he had a potential drug problem. We would be proven right, and, in my opinion, it was much worse than we predicted. Sadly, it appears his church would go on to cover for him.
Story #2
One month later, on June 27, 2022 (the date is essential) Julie Roys reported: J.D. Hall Disqualified from Ministry for Dependency on Prescription Drug Xanax
Jordan “J.D.” Hall, founder of Protestia (formerly Pulpit&Pen), is disqualified from ministry because of his dependency on the prescription drug Xanax (alprazolam), his church announced today.
Here is the statement from the church on JUNE 27:
During the several days following an incident that took place Sunday June 5th, 2022, it came to the attention of church leadership of Fellowship Baptist Church of Sidney, MT that our lead pastor, Jordan Hall, had fallen into a dependency upon perscription alprazolam (Xanax), characterized by use that exceeded his perscribed doseage. As a result, Pastor Hall tendered his resignation from the pastorate shortly thereafter on June 8th, under the assumption that he had become disqualified from eldership as detailed in 1 Timothy 3.
In a subsequent business meeting, the church body voted to accept his resignation from his role as pastor and elder at Fellowship Baptist Church.
Blah, blah, blah. Then, it goes on:
Mr. Hall and his family are now being ministered to by church leadership. Through the application of church discipline as prescribed in Matthew 18, we are exhorting him to seek professional treatment and work toward the restoration of his mind and body, and the reconciliation of his relationships with God and family.
Your prayers for the Hall family along with wisdom regarding this situation as it unfolds, are coveted.
Signed,
Leadership of Fellowship Baptist Church, Sidney MT
Story #3: What really happened
On June 23 (note the date), Hall was arrested for the following alleged crimes.
-First allegation: Hall allegedly violently attacked his wife and daughter, strangling them and using some sort of weapon.
-Second allegation: Hall embezzled over $10,000 from his church.
Look at the following arrest records, and then I’ll lay it out for you.
JD Hall’s guns
JD Hall appears to have a boatload of guns. Hall declared bankruptcy this year, and look at what he declared as assets.
Fellowship Bible Church appears to have lied about what was going on.
Let’s go back to the statement from Fellowship Baptist Church in which Hall is booted from his pastor’s job. Here is the statement from the church on JUNE 27:
During the several days following an incident that took place Sunday June 5th, 2022, it came to the attention of church leadership of Fellowship Baptist Church of Sidney, MT that our lead pastor, Jordan Hall, had fallen into a dependency upon perscription alprazolam (Xanax), characterized by use that exceeded his perscribed doseage.
They knew that on June 23, Hall was arrested following acts of violence at his house, involving strangling his wife and daughter. They also knew about the embezzlement charges since it involved their church.
Yet, they lied. They said he was having Xanax problems (Isn’t that what all the pastors who have “incidents” are claiming these days? See Peeing pastor and Bill Hybels.) Why did they lie? Were they embarrassed by Hal’s violence? Were Xanax problems less uncomfortable than domestic violence? Did they feel the need to protect the already dubious reputation of their church?
Today I was listening to a far too long (5-hour) YouTube presentation by Servus Christi on the history of Hall. I give the guy kudos since he was the one who caught the police reports. One of the things that struck me (I made it through an hour) is the audio he played of Hall in the pulpit. Hall sounded impaired, and I don’t think it was Vitamin D deficiency. I believe Hall may have a genuine drug problem that might have led to him embezzling money from the church.
Strangulation can often result in death, so why the delay in reporting?
Go back to the police report above when Hall was arrested for strangulation of his wife and daughter. Servis Christi says that Hall’s son had to intervene. Note the following.
- The strangulation with a weapon happened on June 5
- The violence was reported on June 23.
Why did it take 18 days to call the police? I sure hope the church was not counseling the family to delay the report-not like I haven’t seen that happen. I believe that Hall’s family should not be living in the same home with him until there is massive intervention.
It is alarming since guns have been in the home in the past, and violence has now allegedly occurred.
This is a volatile situation. There may be guns in the home, two family members have been allegedly strangled but survived, and there is some sort of drug problem. Embezzlement is often done out of desperation for money.
I pray that those who are close will intervene in this horrific situation.
Jordan, if you are reading this, get help ASAP. You are in trouble.
PS Protestia went along with the Xanax excuse.
Update #2:
Barry Bowen sent me. the following info:
“I looked up JD Hall’s bankruptcy case today. The last docket entry: Trustee’s Notice of Intent to Sell Property. Downloaded the document.
Trustee proposes to sell pursuant to 11 USC § 363(b) and FRBP 2002 and will sell
at private sale to the above-named Debtor the Estate’s interest in the following property of the estate
with estimated non-exempt value:
All Non-Exempt Fire Arms, ammunition and accessories
Ruger 10/22 ss/synth ($150)
Ruger 10/22 Bl/synth with Firefield scope ($150)
Keystone Crickett 22Lr (Pink) ($100)
GForce Arms CIT12RR, 12GA with light ($350)
Mossberg 500 12GA ($275)
Tristar Cobra 12GA ($100)
TC Compass 6.5 Reed wiht Vortez Crossfire scope ($300)
Remington 870 Tactical (NOT SAFE TO SHOOT) ($100) Savage
340 E 30-30 (BROKEN FIRING PIN) ($100)
Notice of Intent to Sell
Heritage Rough Rider 22 Lr ($75)
Heritage Rough Rider 4.5 22 Lr ($125)
Taurus 65, 357 Mag SS ($300)
Cimarron 45 Colt Texas Ranger ($650)
Regent 1911-A1 45 ACP ($250)
Smith&Wesson Body Guard 380 ($275)
Smith&Wesson M&P 9 Shield 9mm ($325)
Smith&Wesson EZ shield 9mm ($295)
Glock 26 Gen H 9×19 ($325)
Glock 19 Gen 5 with vortex venom scope ($375)
Remington 30-06 ($260)
Total $5,255.00
AMMO
10 boxes 223 ($100)
1 box PMC 9A ($8)
1 box 9mm ($8)
1 box FC AE9fp ($12)
2 boxes S&B 9mm ($24)
3 boxes Win 223 ($45)
1 box Rem 12 GA ($5)
1 box Wolf 7.62 ($5)
1 box S 9mm ($23)
1 box Freedom Munitions 380 ($10)
1 box Win 380 ($18)
1 box CCI Blazer 45 CD ($35)
1 Box FC AW 45LC ($42)
1 box S&B 45 Autom ($15)
1 box Win 45 Amt ($20)
2 boxes 30-06 ammo ($10)
5 boxes Wolf 223 ($25)
1 box FCP 45 ($20)
1 box Hornady 90/500/352 Mag ($20)
1 box PMC 9A ($8)
2 boxes wolf power buckshot ($8) 2
boxes FC 357 Mag ($36)
1 box WIn 235 Rds 22 Lr ($15)
4 box 30 rd AR Maf ($28)
1 box AR Mag ($4)
2 boxes 5 rd 1312 GA AR ($20)
Total $523.00
MAGAZINES
3 for Glock 9mm ($30)
2 for S&W M&P 9mm ($40)
2 for S&W M&P EZ 9mm ($40)
1 for 1911 ($7)
1 for Taurus 300 ($5)
1 for Hi-Point 985 ($12)
Total $117.00”
First??
Dee, I completely agree with your comments. “This is a volatile situation.” Given what has happened, I pray that JD get help, and may God protect his family.
First?
One of the sad things about the guns he lists are a number of 22s that I imagine he would use to go shooting with his children. A Cricket is a small bolt-action rifle that would often be used to teach a child how to shoot. I believe he is undervaluing many of those firearms. Maybe he is giving a pawn price.
“Jordan “J.D.” Hall, founder of Protestia (formerly Pulpit&Pen), is disqualified from ministry …”
This seems to be a case where time wounds all heels.
I’m happy that someone has finally made it official.
I’ve thought he was “disqualified” all along.
I will set aside the shocking effort to make this even worse than it is (why a stock photo of a woman that has clearly been beaten? Have you contacted Jordan’s wife Mandy for comment? Have you laid eyes on her to see if she shows outward, visible signs of the assault (this isn’t a denial of the charges, just your attempt to further bias the readers)?
Second, in your attempt to throw Fellowship Baptist Church under the bus, you have claimed that they knew the details of the assault investigation and the embezzlement charge. You have conflated dates. Teh embezlement report was filed just this week (July) – well after Fellowship’s press release.
Did you even stop for a moment and consider the possibility that Fellowship began digging into the financials AFTER Jordan submitted his resignation (rightfully)? Again – I am not trying to defend or accuse Jordan – but just want the facts to be facts – and reporting to be reporting of facts, not conflating dates (ignoring them, really), to force a narrative to attack a church. Dangerous territory.
Hall is very likely slipping into plain old fashioned madness.
Will the church and the authorities in that area do the right thing by way of preventive intervention?
Or will they wait until there’s another needless gun tragedy with all he big news outlets circling the area like carrion birds?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMa77NSCWK8
After his “vitamin D deficiency” arrest, the elders of Hall’s church put his wife in charge of deciding when he got to return to ministry.
And Hall strangles her.
I think the elders have disqualified themselves, as well.
Here’s the pertinent section of the Montana theft statute (45-6-301):
My point in quoting this is to note that $10,000 is the *floor* for this statute. In other words, to be charged under this statute, you have to be accused of theft of a *minimum* of $10,000. I looked to see if there was a ceiling and the answer is “not in this section of the Montana code.” So, what I’m trying to say here is that Hall could have taken a lot more than $10,000.
I am also disturbed by the coverup of the domestic violence and the theft. I’m going to suggest that for the theft, the church didn’t have adequate oversight of its financial functions.
Finally, some people REALLY like to listen to themselves talk on YouTube. REALLY.
You never know what you are going to find on YouTube. I found a description of a “Sigma Male,” a term I had never heard of before. I listened to it and it describes me very well. It also describes why I do not believe I am liked by many others who also follow Watchblogs. If you are interested in what this is, here is the link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDL8aMiRRrQ
Haven’t read this, yet, but who the heck didn’t see this coming!!?? This guy was a bomb going off for some time. 🙁
I sure hope Hall’s family isn’t being told they have to forgive and reconcile.
To his family: You have the right to get out. Your lives are in danger. Strangulation has high correlation with later murder.
Don’t listen to those who say you can’t leave if you’re a Christian. Marriage is a covenant. J.D. has already broken that covenant.
There was a study done about cheating in schools:
Among middle school students, the study discovered that these students felt that sharing answers during tests & doing each other’s homework was truly loving, neighborly, and righteous. IOW, they didn’t understand cheating and the damage it does – damage to the student who gets the good grades without doing the work or learning.
Now about these elders: They cover up the pastor’s issues to do the church & this pastor & the pastor’s family a favor? What is it about 1 John 1 that these elders don’t get?
“God is Light, and in Him there is no darkness at all. If we say that we have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth; but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous, so that He will forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.”
Yes, many folks thought J.D. failed various Biblical requirements for elder/pastor:
Above reproach
Faithful husband to his wife
Temperate, sober, vigilant
Sober-minded, prudent
Of good behaviour, orderly, respectable
Given to hospitality
Able to teach
Not given to wine
Not violent, not pugnacious
Patient, moderate, forbearing, gentle
Uncontentious, not soon angry or quick-tempered
Not covetous, not a lover of money
Rules his own house well, his children are faithful, not accused of rebellion to God
Not a novice or new convert
Has a good rapport or reputation with outsiders
Not self-willed
A lover of what is good
Just, fair
Holy, devout
Self-controlled
Hold firmly to the faithful message as it has been taught
(1 Timothy 3:1-7; Titus 1:6-9)
It appears that the embezzlement charge occurred on 6/23 as can be seen above.
And I always post a picture of a woman when there are charges of domestic violence.
As for dangerous territory, you are wading into a filed police report for abuse. I think the danger is quite clear.
I’m not a fan of the producer of the video. However, It features about 1.5hr worth of interviews and he does produce a LOT of evidence to make his case. He goes over dozens of articles and video clips of Jordan Hall. He’s more interested in painting him and his enablers as tools of Satan than portraying a major failure of accountability. I understand this to some extent. I’ve interacted with Protestia types. I expect very few of them to wax self-reflective, but rather to latch onto the next strongman pastor. They’re addicted to their “righteous” anger.
The video, which features timestamps in a pinned comment if you want to skip around, makes a really strong case that someone who knew Hall should have known Xanax was the likely substance behind the DUI. Hall wrote about it in 2020, warning others that he went through withdrawal when he stopped taking it as a sleep aid, implying that he explained to his own church leadership why he had to take time off. If you review the church’s initial response to his arrest, they specifically stated
Emphasis mine. The church, and Protestia, who ran cover for Jordan for some time over this issue, have not owned up to the magnitude of their failure.
I scratched my head when I first heard about this story on Julie Roys site. Vitamin D deficiency?!? I’m in healthcare and I can confidently say that slurred speech, loss of coordination and other strange behavior are not known manifestations of vitamin D deficiency (but they could easily be caused by Xanax). This is a patently nonsensical excuse. Even if it weren’t, how is it better to knowingly drive when impaired by a medical condition than to do so when impaired by drugs? Both are reckless and should be considered equally disqualifying, imo.
The other thing that now jumps out at me is the means of the alleged assaults. Using strangulation in IPV is statistically a very strong indicator of a highly dangerous (ie potentially murderous) perpetrator. https://www.strangulationtraininginstitute.com/all-abusers-are-not-equal-new-ipv-research-reveals-an-indicator-of-deadly-abuse/
I pray for Mrs Hall and her kids. They need help and protection. There will no doubt be voices telling her to reconcile, to save her marriage, to forgive and suffer like Jesus. I pray there are people in her life who will shout them down and support her.
Here is an update from Barry Bowen:
“I looked up JD Hall’s bankruptcy case today. The last docket entry: Trustee’s Notice of Intent to Sell Property. Downloaded the document.
Trustee proposes to sell pursuant to 11 USC § 363(b) and FRBP 2002 and will sell
at private sale to the above-named Debtor the Estate’s interest in the following property of the estate
with estimated non-exempt value:
All Non-Exempt Fire Arms, ammunition and accessories
Ruger 10/22 ss/synth ($150)
Ruger 10/22 Bl/synth with Firefield scope ($150)
Keystone Crickett 22Lr (Pink) ($100)
GForce Arms CIT12RR, 12GA with light ($350)
Mossberg 500 12GA ($275)
Tristar Cobra 12GA ($100)
TC Compass 6.5 Reed wiht Vortez Crossfire scope ($300)
Remington 870 Tactical (NOT SAFE TO SHOOT) ($100) Savage
340 E 30-30 (BROKEN FIRING PIN) ($100)
Notice of Intent to Sell
Heritage Rough Rider 22 Lr ($75)
Heritage Rough Rider 4.5 22 Lr ($125)
Taurus 65, 357 Mag SS ($300)
Cimarron 45 Colt Texas Ranger ($650)
Regent 1911-A1 45 ACP ($250)
Smith&Wesson Body Guard 380 ($275)
Smith&Wesson M&P 9 Shield 9mm ($325)
Smith&Wesson EZ shield 9mm ($295)
Glock 26 Gen H 9×19 ($325)
Glock 19 Gen 5 with vortex venom scope ($375)
Remington 30-06 ($260)
Total $5,255.00
AMMO
10 boxes 223 ($100)
1 box PMC 9A ($8)
1 box 9mm ($8)
1 box FC AE9fp ($12)
2 boxes S&B 9mm ($24)
3 boxes Win 223 ($45)
1 box Rem 12 GA ($5)
1 box Wolf 7.62 ($5)
1 box S 9mm ($23)
1 box Freedom Munitions 380 ($10)
1 box Win 380 ($18)
1 box CCI Blazer 45 CD ($35)
1 Box FC AW 45LC ($42)
1 box S&B 45 Autom ($15)
1 box Win 45 Amt ($20)
2 boxes 30-06 ammo ($10)
5 boxes Wolf 223 ($25)
1 box FCP 45 ($20)
1 box Hornady 90/500/352 Mag ($20)
1 box PMC 9A ($8)
2 boxes wolf power buckshot ($8) 2
boxes FC 357 Mag ($36)
1 box WIn 235 Rds 22 Lr ($15)
4 box 30 rd AR Maf ($28)
1 box AR Mag ($4)
2 boxes 5 rd 1312 GA AR ($20)
Total $523.00
MAGAZINES
3 for Glock 9mm ($30)
2 for S&W M&P 9mm ($40)
2 for S&W M&P EZ 9mm ($40)
1 for 1911 ($7)
1 for Taurus 300 ($5)
1 for Hi-Point 985 ($12)
Total $117.00”
I shall add the above to the post.
You can be sure of that. And one of the tools they use will be ‘guilt’, backed up with this ‘verse’, that ‘verse’, and this ‘verse’ over there…
Ava Aaronson,
I think my original problem with asking his wife to approve his return to work, other than the BLATANT conflict of interest, is that the elders were pawning their jobs off on her.
Also, what on earth did they expect her to say?
Assuming her husband actually wants to return to work, if she genuinely thinks he’s ready, sure, she’ll say yes. No harm, no foul.
But if he wants to return to work / “his God-given calling” and she thinks he should not… if she says no, she’s the one who has to go home with him at the end of the day and deal with the dejection, the grumpiness, the depression while at the same time “being the direct contributor” to said rejection/grumpiness/depression. In an otherwise healthy relationship, this would place an impossible burden on the couple. In a relationship that is already showing signs of cracks (like an addiction to prescription medication), it’s a recipe for disaster.
“Keystone Crickett 22Lr (Pink) ($100)”
Sigh. For his girls to shoot with him.
I notice he didn’t sell his AR-15s. That’s what jumps out at me about this article. I also can’t find the arrest record to see if the gun he was carrying while arrested is listed here.
Wild Honey,
PS – If this is a more conservative complementarian church, she can’t really tell her husband “no,” because he will be the one to “break the tie” in the event of a disagreement. And if this is a more hierarchical church, she can’t really tell the elders “no,” because they are “in authority” over her.
So, yeah, the “stalwart defenders” of “winsome women” have not exactly lived up to their (self-proclaimed) reputation.
This is one big fail on their part on so many levels.
Sorry might have put in the wrong email as my last comment went to mod.
“Keystone Crickett 22Lr (Pink) ($100)” For shooting with his daughter(s).
What immediately jumps out at me in the bankruptcy sale list is the absence of the four AR-15s. Since the guns are listed differently in the initial post by Bowen and the sale list it is hard to identify what he kept (e.g., the “12 870” in the asset list would likely be the “Remington 870” in the sale list).
I would expect he kept one or more handguns for personal defense. Hopefully anyone in contact with him is aware of this for the safety of those around Hall, and Hall himself.
I called BS on that when I first heard it.
i.e. the latest Twinkie Defense. (Or Ambian Defense.)
I have a Vitamin D Deficiency (“Nerd Scurvy”), have been on 5000 IU (125 mcg) of D3 a day for several years, and NEVER heard anything like THAT happening.
Biblical Manhood(TM) in action.
You think such a Biblical Manly-Man (with a known “anger problem”) would part with his Penis Extensions?
(Aside: A lot of the appeal of Assault Rifles is they are the firearms equivalent of Muscle Cars.)
Most of the guns listed appear to be a mix of light .22 “plinkers” and ordinary rifles & shotguns, though with a heavy emphasis on 9mm autopistols (lotsa Glocks). Only one that stood out was the “Tactical (NOT SAFE TO SHOOT)” shotgun. “Tactical” is code for “Tacticool”, i.e. styled and blinged up as an “Assault Shotgun”.
The ammo list is what’s confusing. Here’s what stood out:
18 boxes (normally 20 rounds each) of .223 (civilian version of 5.56 NATO) when none of the guns listed are in that caliber.
Mystery box of “Wolf 7.62” – does that mean 7.62 NATO (AKA “308”), 7.62×39 (SKS/AK47 caliber), or 7.62x54R (old Russian Moison-Nagant caliber); no mention of an SKS, Moison-Nagant, or any other rifle of that caliber in the list. (“Wolf” is the manufacturer; a RUSSIAN Import/Exporter best known for 7.62×39 and 7.62x54R, so chances are the “7.62” is 7.62×39. Wonder if Wolf’s marking them with a “Z” these days.)
it seems sad that these days some of the features of ‘an annointed one of God’, whether in ministry or in the political arena, CAN include such troubled people;
so much so, that their ‘Christian witness’ confuses those who don’t get it that eventually the harm that these ‘annointed ones’ do turns inward on themselves and then the ‘big name’ and the ‘fame’ and those who cared for them and protected them and shielded them can no longer keep the stench from the world of a human soul in distress propped up by them what hoped to profit in some way from him.
At some point, people KNOW that their ‘idol’ is a drowning soul, but still they latch on, adding weight upon weight to the process of the destruction of their ‘idol’.
In my own opinion, you cannot have these ‘idols’ without the ones who hold them up (or try to) in hopes of ‘benefitting’ indirectly from what their idol’s ‘power’ and ‘fame’ can get them.
Then when our idol goes nuts, and the whole house of cards crumbles, we may walk away but I wonder if those folks who KNEW have any idea how their ‘worship’ of such a flawed creature imperiled his soul, and theirs?????
sounds like J.D. Hall is someone people used while they could, even more than J.D. Hall used them –
it all turned inward on him and them, as idol worship always does, all the way down to the boneyard
very sad ending, but was it not predictable???
Headless Unicorn Guy,
J.D.Hall, leader of the Pulpiteers.
* Known for being a positively VICIOUS Net Drunk in the blogopshere, i.e. “Instant A-Hole, just add Broadband”. Remember Braxton Caner?
* Known irrational violent behavior, believed to be addicted to Xanax (with full Twinkie Defense denial).
* Choked out his winsome wife, presumably when he was held accountable for something he did by a third party.
* Has listed an array of firearms and ammo worthy of a serious collector or survival bunker. (And the types and makes listed tend towards the latter.)
* And a Mighty ManaGAWD, acting in Holy Righteousness. “TOUCH NOT MINE ANOINTED!”
I figure this ManaGAWD’s going to make the mainstream news; only question is “How Long?”
Michael,
And the ManaGAWD’s sock puppets/Loyal Flunkies show up to Defend the Faith frome Heretics and Heathens.
Just like the Pulpiteers.
“SCRIPTURE! SCRIPTURE!! SCRIPTURE!!!”
“If you question what I say or do,
YOU REBEL AGAINST THE FATHER, TOO!”
— Steve Taylor, “I Manipulate”
Because assault is ok if there is no visible evidence…
Wait… J.D.Hall’s in MONTANA?
Home of the Unabomber, and Crazy Militias spilling over from the Patriot Redoubt in Idaho?
An FBI profiler who worked Unabomber said that Montana is the place to go if you’re antisocial or just asocial (can’t stand being around other people). Big, empty, and the Canadian border is handy if things get too hot and you have to bug out.
“Predictable” was the first word that popped to mind when I saw the title to this post. Indeed, a very sad ending … and yet another reason for the world to look at the church and say “See, there’s nothing to it.” But, as we often discuss on TWW, there is the church and ‘the’ Church.
In some cases it should be spelled with a double-s
Headless Unicorn Guy,
The list reads like the strongman playbook from @ruthbenghiat ‘s research.
But Piper said it’s ok for women to be abused for a season
This is what a true minister of the Gospel should be able to say –
“For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ”. 2 Cor 2:17
Etymology and contrast
“Corrupt the word of God” = “Unlike such people, who peddle the word of God for profit [καπηλεύοντες τὸν λόγον τοῦ θεοῦ]” (2 Cor 2:17), Paul made it a practice to earn his keep with his own hands (Phil 4:15; 1 Thess 2:9)”
(New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology and Exegesis)
Yeah, that they were to endure smacking
Why do people put so much stock in Piper?
And to think, before he left for Montana He and I had discussed starting a church In Arkansas, glad we never did.
Because he’s the Piper!
“Men from your very own ranks will arise, twisting words so as to seduce disciples into following them instead of Jesus” (Acts 20:30)
I hope all guns have been removed from Hall and any premises where he might live. He is in a dangerous state. Dangerous to others and to himself. He needs medical and psychological help.
At which point, the only goal becomes “I Use Them more than They Can Use Me”.
On both sides of the equation.
paranoia:
that list of weapons? And how these days, people who ‘love their guns’ are running out and buying more weapons and ammunition to stock up
stock up for what?
Is this some kind of national phenomenon, that extreme types also tend toward paranoia?
Is it ‘catching’??? My goodness, these days, a car backfires in the street outside and it’s ‘Katie, bar the door’ and we all jump until we know what the hey went down.
paranoia?
we’re in trouble, when a Boebert gets elected to responsible political office and some of our most prominent people in politics and the ministry strongly advocate ‘carrying’, even if concealed . . .
what kind of trouble? REAL violence, sure; but ‘fear itself’ seems also among us casting its shadow, and it’s getting darker in our land
If you’re smart, you don’t leave evidence.
Ask any violent abuser with a good Angel of Light mask.
Bonus points for gaslighting your victim into believing you never did.
Violent, hair-trigger, Gawd’s Chosen, weapons handy…
Like I said above, I’m sure someday we’ll hear about him on the news.
(But then I thought Deep Throat Driscoll would god down in a sex scandal, not a plagiarism one.)
Muff Potter,
Cuz they denigrate women? Men as masters, women as martyrs?
Isn’t Pipe a Southerner? (History of men – real men, that is – as masters?)
Surely, though, men and women of any region can embark on the Strongman trap, as exposed by the research of @ruthbenghiat.
“For there will come a time when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, because they have itching ears, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in line with their own desires” (2 Timothy 4:1-4)
Some folks like “pastors” who walk and talk no differently than them. It makes them feel better about themselves. Bad-boy preaching sells in some corners of the American church. I call it the Driscoll Delusion.
Strangulation, guns in the home, and addiction is a very high risk of deadly violence.
I wonder if the church was discouraging his wife from filing a report at first, then they saw the embezzlement and filed a report about that.
it’s a strange form of religion that PERMITS charges to be filed for church embezzlement while
DISCOURAGING a wife from calling the cops on a physically-abusive husband
so much for Christian values . . . in some corners of the anti-kingdom
stranger and stranger . . . . rabbit-hole religion, yep
It appears to be all about the money.
And keeping the man as master, with women in their place.
According to @ruthbenghiat’s research, this is way beyond Driscoll and current newsy Evangeo badboys.
Her research documents the rise of populist badboys over the last 100 years in free societies (exactly where one would never anticipate these strongmen to prevail).
Interesting that Evangelical and secular cultures* align perfectly with the rise of authoritarian autocratic rulebreaker (rules for thee but never me) populist leaders. (Strength as the power to do what one wants and get away with it, for freedom Christ has set us free.)
*Even as Evangelicals claim they are fighting and winning “culture wars”. LOL… Evangelicals are in thick with the strongman culture.
Muff Potter,
“Why do people put so much stock in Piper?”
++++++++++++++++++++
because he appears to be the anti-celebrity?
kind of like Napoleon Dynamite is a mascot. an unlikely hero. one you could never be accused of succumbing to celebrity over.
….all the while such people overlook the fact that they’re faith-glamour opportunists.
it’s no less a glamour pursuit being a john piper groupie than it is a star athlete / rock star / leading actor groupie.
it’s just easier to deny one is caught up in it.
elastigirl,
“because he appears to be the anti-celebrity?”
++++++++++++++++
‘appears’, that is.
i think he fancies himself the ultra-celebrity, and secretly revels in it. a sly attention-seeker (although i had another word in mind for the 2nd half of that compound word)
i see through it.
Ken F (aka Tweed),
Has anyone asked Piper yet if a strangulation is a sign that it’s ok for the season to be over?
Wild Honey,
A theology of masters and martyrs and a false nobility.
Like I said, it sounds like another gun tragedy waiting to happen.
God forbid, and by his mercies, such a thing won’t transpire.
The situation at Hall’s church – that he basically controlled the elders that he was accountable to – shows that the elder-based independent church model is flawed. This model is currently being promulgated by Reformed Baptists all over the world.
Of course, I’m a Presbyterian who believes that elders should run churches. Churches should not be a democracy, nor should churches be a top-down structure.
However the Presbyterian system of church government does have an advantage in that its churches, unlike the Baptist system, are not independent.
Had JD Hall’s church been part of a group of churches that have a presbyterian church government system, not only would the individual church still have elders, but they would, in turn, be accountable to a wider body of elders that make up the local “presbytery”.
Here in Australia, probably around 15 years ago, a Presbyterian church was discovered to be run by a group of elders that had created their own cult. In response, the presbytery fired the elders from that church and created a temporary committee (session in presbyterian parlance) to run that church.
In the case of JD Hall, had there been sufficient complaints against him, the elders running his church could have been dismissed by a higher church body.
Of course one reason why Baptists may not be happy with the presbyterian system is that think it might involve pedobaptism. This is not the case. If a bunch of congregational baptist churches join together in a denominational system like the presbyterian church, they can still mandate believers baptism.
Note that the presbyterian system isn’t perfect either. However it’s a better system for accountability than the congregational model or the episcopal (top down) model.
christiane,
Protecting the church’s money is more important than protecting victims of abuse.
I was in a church that investigated the pastor’s financial misappropriation of funds and did nothing about the abuse and harassment allegations against other clergy members. It was awful to watch how that played out.
Most of these should apply to all of us. Not everyone is married or has children (a larger issue is you are not the kind to be unfaithful, you are not a tyrant, or negligent, etc.). Not everyone can teach well, novices should be welcomed but also helped to grow. But I think just about everything else should apply to everyone – and all of us have had struggles with something. I was thinking there are some things on the list I am weak on, other things not so much.
Jacob,
Indeed! I’ve got some things I need to work on on that list.
Yes. The “independent” nature of a church could easily lead to an autocratic and/or narcissistic pastor who has complete control through a board of yes-men elders. We have seen problems with that model several times on TWW. SBC’s New Calvinist movement with a spiritually immature and inexperienced pastor in his 20s-30s, coupled with an elder team of dudebros of same age, have disrupted SBC life. The autonomous identity of SBC churches also provides an environment where a rogue “pastor” could interfere with God’s plan for His church.
God never had to use a strongman in the pulpit to get His message across … just a faithful man. In their attempt to change the culture, the culture has enveloped the evangelical church and they haven’t realized it yet.
I’m not convinced that a congregational model is better than the model with bishops. Denominations with bishops happens to include a lot of mainline denominations that ordain women, require academically rigorous seminary training, and insist on screening and counseling before and during the ordination process.
Maybe the best is a balance between lay people and ordained people, with nobody in the grip of cult leaders and yes-men. But maybe the problem is that any organizational chart is helpeless against people who go to church to narrow their minds and build little power structures at home, in the congregation, and anywhere else they can get away with it.
I’ve been in some churches where congregational governance worked fine. I’ve also been in churches where a powerful family had become entrenched power mongers for generations. They influenced congregational votes for everything from color of the carpet to color of the preacher. It depends on the congregation, I suppose … and whether they are seeking God’s will or pursuing their own.
Because you can’t do church without butts in seat in a building that has to be paid for. The people themselves don’t matter so much as long as they keep writing checks or volunteering (voluntolding?) to provide support to the check writers to keep their butts in seats.
So give them what they want, so they will come and stay and pay. Church as entertainment, shallow sermonettes, coffee & pastries in the foyer … no pursuit of holiness required.
Headless Unicorn Guy,
Hay, I like muscle cars!!! I do have one, and I think they are wasteful, but I like them
Jeffrey chalmers,
I DO NOT have one
That’s why SBC’s new reformers target established (paid for) non-Calvinist churches to take over by stealth and deception. Shortly after setting up shop, they vote out congregational polity, install elder-rule governance, and run off all the old folks that paid for the stuff they plundered. I call it the racketeering model of doing church.
Repent!! 🙂
that was the quickest act of repentance I’ve ever seen! 🙂
Nah. It was gas prices
eChurch will be interesting when someone actually preaches in church about what is happening here in churches at the TWW blog + comments.
Relevancy anyone? Church that actually addresses what is happening in church.
Michael,
I can’t take Michael seriously when he acts like he knows all the details, but here and on Twitter has the wrong name of the church. It’s not Friendship Baptist, but Fellowship Baptist.
Michael,
“I will set aside the shocking effort to make this even worse than it is (why a stock photo of a woman that has clearly been beaten? Have you contacted Jordan’s wife Mandy for comment? Have you laid eyes on her to see if she shows outward, visible signs of the assault (this isn’t a denial of the charges, just your attempt to further bias the readers)?”
++++++++++++++++++++
make it worse than it is?!?
i see the oaf has arrived.
What was that song again? I can’t remember all the words, am missing a noun, I fear.
But where are the …..
Send in the …..
Don’t bother
They’re here
Any church organization can become corrupted.
That’s why any & every New Improved Way to the Perfect Church – Heirarchy, Elders, Congregational, Seeker-Sensitive, Megachurch, House Church – doesn’t deliver on its promises and/or goes sour over time. And often gets replaced by another Way equally subject to Entropy.
And assault rifles are the firearms equivalent. The big mags, rapid rate of fire, and no-nonsense look are like the sound of a big-block V8 wit 4-barrel carb through low-restriction headers into dual 40-inch glasspacks. (Like my old 289 Mustang’s engine sound compared to my current 1600cc fuel-injected Honda’s.)
Isn’t the whole idea of a collective body to balance out the strengths and weaknesses of its individual bodies? Where one is weak, another who is strong steps in?
What do you think that Rabbi from Tarsus was saying when he wrote:
The eye cannot say to the hand, “I do not need you,” nor again the head to the feet, “I do not need you.” NET Bible The eye cannot say to the hand, “I do not need you,” nor in turn can the head say to the foot, “I do not need you.”
You should see what happens when they stop writing checks. That gets the attention real quick.
Whether that strongman is in a Pulpit or on on a Throne.
“They will call for The Strong Man. And The Strong Man will come.”
— Demonic voice near the climax of a Seventies (pre-Peretti) Spiritual Warfare Novel
Headless Unicorn Guy,
Or a Tesla…..
I try to put inflation into perspective … a gallon of gas weighs about 6 pounds … at $5.00 per gallon, that’s just a little over 80-cents per pound … hamburger costs $5.00 per pound
“just a faithful man.” man or woman
Indeed!
One day there will be a reckoning.
Ken F (aka Tweed),
Y’all are giving this guy way too much rope. He was a duplicitous conman from the get-go. No doubt he’s been abusing his family for YEARS, lying to and stealing from his church for YEARS, pulling the wool over kind-hearted but naive church-goers for YEARS. I hope he rots.
You can take it to the bank. Payday someday.
Random thoughts: JD Hall should never have been in the pulpit, and never should be in the pulpit again. After what he pulled at a revival at a charismatic church in Dickinson ND years ago, he should have been ousted.
As to having to have butts in a pew in a building that has to be paid for to do church, not. Some of the best churches we have been part of met on pick up tailgates, or at a corral, or in a donated room in a motel lobby, or around kitchen tables. No clergy, no overhead, lots of Jesus.
Should JD be held accountable for all of his crimes? Absolutely, no question, once convicted. Did a vitamin D deficiency play a part? It very well might have. We have inlaws who have been bipolar and who did not respond properly to treatment UNTIL vitamin D levels were checked, found to be near zero, and strong meds started. (Way stronger than 5,000 IU per day.) They also had atypical reactions to sleeping meds, psych meds, pain meds, alcohol, and antihistamines. Slurred speech, episodes of crazy, etc. My former doc had a nurse who turned out to have a level “under 7” who could turn volatile in a heartbeat, mess up med orders, make terrifying medical mistakes, have slurred speech, vision issues, and attacks of craziness. In her case no bipolar but she was released from work until her D levels were up. Once nurse V was back to normal levels, she was back to normal, and that office checked everyone’s D level yearly.
I can judge Hall’s actions, if proven and I assume they will be, are reprehensible. Beyond that, whether it is just free will evil or if there is a biomedical reason for his lunacy, is above my pay grade.
Off topic, but thanks to those praying for rain for us. Please keep praying as we are still low and the drought is expected to worsen as we face record high heat. But last night we got .75 inch of rain, our first since early June. Helped fill the cistern some, watered everything quite well, and will truly help. So far the garden is muddling along.
Mob boss leaders?
Again, @ruthbenghiat’s research comes to mind. There’s a playbook for this, that if followed, the church strongman rises via:
1. manipulation (love-bombing in churches),
2. intimidation (church covenants), to culminate with
3. domination (cult of the personality leadership running all, unhinged, unchallenged, and with support of sycophants and the bro-hood of other likewise strongman leaders).
See, know, understand, walk away, disengage.
If no laws are broken, then LE and the DOJ have no standing in this process in our freedom of religion by Constitutional rights society. Unplug.
The con leaders are the flip side of the benefits of being blessed with a society of many incredible freedoms for which we can be ever grateful.
Freedom requires critical thinking, freedom of information, and then taking responsibility for the scams and cons uncovered. Healthy spiritual journeys are both a right and responsibility of each disciple of Jesus. By choice. Choosing wisely.
That seemed so obvious to most observers when J.D. first came on the scene … I don’t understand what those church folks were thinking!
Praise the Lord!
So, better that the church be a part of a bigger dictatorship rather than a tinpot dictatorship.
That hasn’t stopped abuse in other denominations.
When church members park their brains at the curb before they enter their church, they have a problem. No thinking.
Friends of ours told about a rather prestigious church community in our area where that was common – even execs who ran name brand companies were churching without their brains. Not good.
As Christians we are children of God but we should never be children while churching. Church engagement requires all adult faculties intact and running well.
Friend,
Don’t be so hasty in name calling. Similar points are being made in the Christian Post article about evidence and veracity.
For example – “ So the church filed an assault charge that they never saw and weren’t there “for” the Halls, three weeks after the fact, to go with their embezzlement charge, and was deleting his wife comments on their facebook – not letting her speak.?!
This really doesn’t look good, and should not have been published without verification, when the same group – the only one used as a source in this article and police accusation. ;;When Hall’s wife publicly rebuked the church on their Facebook page for lying they deleted her comment and restricted more posting.
That isn’t honest, right behavior. “
Or this – “ I really have to object to this – this is illegal under all the states I’m familiar with – none of the people witnessed the said claim, it’s at best hearsay and this point gossip – because it was reported 3-4 weeks later as the article writes it, and by a group with an ax to grind – “he stole from us – and btw did you hear that he assaulted someone”.
I believe that a police report is a form of verification. I have been through this time and time again. Nothing is ever proven, beyond a reasonable doubt, even in court cases. For. example, OJ Simpson was found “not guilty.” Few believe that verdict. One can take history into account along with police reports and reach a reasonable conclusion.I know some facts about this situation that have not been published. Please pray for the family and for JD Hall.
Thank you for this comment.
Christian Post did an update which appears to corroborate some of the post-https://religionnews.com/2022/07/06/adult-abuse-survivors-often-treated-as-sinners-and-threats-to-churches/
I’ve known several abusers in the church who seemed to show care for victims very convincingly.
This disturbs me on so many levels. I haven’t read all the comments.
I assume someone has pointed out that strangulation makes the likelihood of homicide extremely more likely. This is similar to the reality that victims of intimate partner rape are much more likely to be killed by their abuser than victims who have not been sexually assaulted.
My concern is the impact of people calling for compassion and understanding for JD and looking for repentance. It is extremely difficult for wives and children to accurately identify abuse in highly religious homes. This would be compounded by seeing advocates call for a supportive, compassionate response to JD.
His public rants and attacks over the years are fueled by rage. The deception and lying are not new.
I would be distressed to see such a stance toward Jimmy Hinton’s father or Julie Ann’s abusive ex. No doubt they could appear caring and concerned about abuse if it served them.
I once provided multiple resources for preventing and dealing with abuse to a kind pastor who made gracious stands against all forms of abuse, trafficking and porn. That simply meant that when he was exposed as a predator of boys, he was protected and supported and the self-admitted abuser skated.
On a personal note, his armory looks quite spare compared to my abusive ex. He had many weapons and 1000’s of rounds of ammo when I left with a partial inventory record.
Many gun owners declare they will die before they give up their weapons. This adds a wrinkle to order of protection requests. If approved, the owner must relinquish control of their guns. My state requires the victim seeking an order of protection to face her abuser in court within a short period of time where he argues why the order is not needed or appropriate. So many abusers appear calm, safe and reasonable in the courtroom. The terrified victim looks unstable facing her abuser in court.
This is my plea for us to become more educated regarding domestic violence and the diabolical dynamics. It is unhelpful to have a simplistic perspective on complex and crucial matters.
If JD is repentant, reuniting with his family will be low on the priority list compared to their well being and healing.
Thanks for considering my perspective. I wish it were simply theoretical rather than historical.
Wild Honey,
elastigirl,
Narcissists find supply from the responses of others. Getting strong reactions is prime supply even when the reactions are negative.
“You have become people who need a milk diet and cannot face solid food! For anyone who continues to live on “milk” is obviously immature — he simply has not grown up. “Solid food” is only for the adult, that is, for the man who has developed by experience his power to discriminate between what is good and bad for him.” (Hebrews 5:12-14 Phillips)
I truly feel sorry for JD’s wife. This poor woman was strangled, probably not allowed to work outside the home. (I only say that because he seems to be of the hyper-complementarian stripe.)
Her life has been entangled with his, they have kids together, she knows him better than anyone, and probably loves him deeply. But now he tried to kill her. She is going to struggle for a long time to make sense out of this, get her life straightened out, and most likely try to make a living. Unless she “forgives” him so to speak, stays with him, and he never changes. I hope he does. He resigned. That may be a sign of true repentance, it may be just a man running from his problems.
May the Lord intervene in this family and rescue this wife and children, then him.
On a related note, does anyone know where the concept of going to the elders developed as an expected by someone in an abusive marriage? Is there “biblical” precedence for that expectation?
If so, it seems authority wielding elders would feel compelled to thoroughly understand domestic violence and abuse issues.
I was surprised to see Hall’s elders give his wife authority on when he was allowed back in the pulpit. That goes against their gender roles beliefs and put her in an awful position even before we knew how awful her position actually is.
People underestimate the skills abusers have in deception and outright lying within faith communities. We assume we would know when someone lies to us despite all the research debunking that belief.
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The problem with deception is that you don’t know you are deceived because you are deceived.
That, Bob, is perhaps the most compassionate comment on this thread.
dee,
when I hear ‘strangulation’, I think about poor Gabby Petito
Nobody is as Sincere and Truthful as a Pathological Liar. I’ve seen it in action – a Sociopath looking straight into your eyes with wide-eyed innocence, speaking with butter-wouldn’t-melt-in-my-mouth Sincerity, every word a manipulative Lie. And Everybody Except You Believes It.
Headless Unicorn Guy,
“What is the cost of lies? It’s not that we’ll mistake them for the truth. The real danger is that if we hear enough lies, then we no longer recognize the truth at all.”
— Chernobyl (HBO Miniseries), opening monologue
Embezzlement is $$$$$, and that’$ what REALLY Matter$.
And when they leave court, it’s time for his Second Amendment Solution(TM).