With the release of the Guidepost Solutions investigative report on abuse within the SBC on May 22, 2022 Johnny Hunt had a fall from grace of epic proportions. I first will give some background information on Johnny Hunt. There is nothing new here, just rehashing the factual information.
Then, at the end of this article you will find several short video clips taken from a June 26th talk that Senior Pastor Jeremy Morton gave at the morning church service of First Baptist Church of Woodstock, GA. It appears to be an effort by Pastor Morton to be transparent as well as put the Johnny Hunt scandal behind them.
First, I wanted to post an ironic devotional by Johnny Hunt that I came across in my research for this post.
“And almost coincidentally during this outside investigation, allegations of abusive behavior surfaced against a former SBC president who — until last week — was the No. 2 leader of the SBC’s North American Mission Board.
“During our investigation, an SBC pastor and his wife came forward to report that SBC President Johnny Hunt (2008-2010) had sexually assaulted the wife on July 25, 2010. We include this sexual assault allegation in the report because our investigators found the pastor and his wife to be credible; their report was corroborated in part by a counseling minister and three other credible witnesses; and our investigators did not find Dr. Hunt’s statements related to the sexual assault allegation to be credible,” the executive summary of the Guidepost report states.
According to NAMB President Kevin Ezell, Hunt, who is 69, resigned his role as senior vice president for evangelism and leadership Friday, May 13, “effective immediately.”
Ezell called the details of the Guidepost report “egregious and deeply disturbing.”
“Prior to May 13, I was not aware of any alleged misconduct on the part of Johnny Hunt,” Ezell said on Sunday afternoon, May 22. “I learned the details of the report today along with the rest of our Southern Baptist family.”
About an hour and a half after release of the report, Hunt issued a statement via Twitter [The Twitter link no longer works, but a screenshot of Hunt’s statement is below.] confirming he had indeed resigned from NAMB but denying the allegations of abuse:
“I vigorously deny the circumstances and characterizations set forth in the Guidepost report. I have never abused anybody.”
Source: Baptist News Global; “Former SBC President Johnny Hunt admits improper conduct but denies abuse claims.”
Steve Baughman – the Banjo Skeptic, was not the only one upset with Johnny Hunt’s hastily contrived denial. (It was published the same day the Guideposts investigative report on SBC abuse was made public, though Hunt said he had not yet read the report.) What follow is only a handful of the many negative comments made on Twitter in response to Hunt’s denial.
Johnny Hunt and Ravi Zacharias apparently were good buddies. We know they both traveled the world to….ahem, “preach the Gospel.”
Ravi endorsed a book authored by Hunt, saying, in part: “Applying these truths will save you a nightmare of regrets.” Zacharias would have known.
Steve Baughman was the individual largely responsible for bringing the truth to light regarding Ravi Zacharias. Below Steve speaks of a conversation he had with Johnny Hunt. This video was recorded in 2020. Hunt spoke at the Grand Opening of the Jivan Wellness Clinic and defended Zacharias and his “clinic.” In what I found to be an amazing confession Hunt told Baughman he was a regular customer at the “health spa.” This seemed like something a leader in the SBC should steer clear of and it raised a red flag in my mind, although it didn’t seem to phase any of Hunt’s apologists.
My guess is Johnny Hunt had a PR individual from the SBC get in touch with him and advise him he desperately needed to craft another statement. He did just that a mere five days after his initial denial, producing a video message and a written letter to his church, although it was clearly published for wider distribution.
I compiled some typical comments from Facebook on the new statement Hunt produced. Of all the comments I saw only a few that mentioned the victim and her family, and as you can see below it was a “praying for all involved” type of comment.
Unfortunately, these types of responses are what we always seem to see from church members. They rally round the man they idolize and don’t say a thing about the woman abused by the pastor.
On June 26, 2022 Jeremy Morton, the man who replaced Johnny Hunt after he resigned from First Baptist Church of Woodstock, GA spoke to the church on what is happening with Johnny Hunt. I have some clips from his talk below, but first is a link to the whole talk on YouTube. You may wish to view the entire talk so you get it all in context.
Link to Jeremy Morton’s talk at First Baptist Church of Woodstock, GA.
Morton did mention a few times that they support all victims, but the majority of his talk had to do with how they as a church were ministering to Johnny Hunt and his family. No mention was made of anything they were doing to help the victim and her family. As a matter of fact, Morton said only two people were in the room and they are the only ones, besides God, who knows what actually took place. It seems to me Morton tends to believe Hunt’s version.
I believe the woman’s version. Her story has been corroborated by three others. Also, and this is not a minor thing, having investigated many such stories, the pastor is overwhelmingly the individual who lies. We have already seen Hunt do so in this situation. These guys only admit to facts that are undeniable.
Morton and Hunt both seem to have “restoration” of Hunt as their goal. What exactly that means I don’t know. Restoration of Hunt’s tarnished reputation? Restoration of Hunt’s title of Pastor Emeritus? Hunt preaching again?
My view is Hunt should never preach again. Sure, he can attend church again, but he should not be restored to any type of leadership role. I would love to hear your thoughts in the comment section.
The “response” of “the system” is sooo predictable…… sigh
If the worst comes to the worst, JH can always go to Robert Morris or Brian Houston for restoration. They will restore anybody, even Mark from Seattle. Oh, wait, Houston’s gone. Well, RM will definitely not shy awy from anybody, given his own history.
“Unfortunately, these types of responses are what we always seem to see from church members. They rally round the man they idolize and don’t say a thing about the woman abused by the pastor.”
church with a little “c” … not ‘the’ Church which has no idols and loves/ministers to the suffering and brokenhearted – including those who are suffering and brokenhearted at the hands of church leaders. In ‘the’ Church, there are no celebrity pastors, no personality cults, no fallen pastors who are honored. In ‘the’ Church, victims are cared for … Dr. Hunt is not the victim.
“My view is Hunt should never preach again. Sure, he can attend church again, but he should not be restored to any type of leadership role.”
Forgive him if he genuinely confesses/repents? Certainly. Restore him to ministry? NO! There are no examples in the New Testament of pastors who failed morally being restored to ministry. There are other places in the Body of Christ for the repentant to serve … the Church of the Living God is comprised of repentant sinners serving the Lord everyday. But, to whom much has been given much will be required … the Body of Christ should expect pastors to be faithful, trustworthy, focused on their call, walk in the Spirit and not in the flesh. Is this becoming too much to ask?
Yes, Morris has restored many who were on “Satan’s Hit List”
Perhaps wear a scarlet letter, “p” for “predator”?
After a suitable interval and convincing infallible proofs to warrant an adjustment, the neckwear could be amended to “rp” for “repentant predator”
“Morton and Hunt both seem to have “restoration” of Hunt as their goal. What exactly that means I don’t know. Restoration of Hunt’s tarnished reputation?”
I suspect this is certainly a primary goal. You didn’t get any more reputable than Johnny Hunt in the SBC … he was the man! A giant, top of the SBC pyramid, wielded great influence … even had his own stained class image in Patterson’s chapel.
“The last will be first, and the first last.”
i think jeremy morton needs a bran muffin.
i reckon “restoration” and “restore” have kicked “winsome” and “irenic” off the top spots in bullsh|t bingo christian edition.
Does it really all come down to this?
“Brothers and sisters, if someone is caught in a sin, you who live by the Spirit should restore that person gently. But watch yourselves, or you also may be tempted.” Galatians 6:1
a pastor completely disqualifies himself and poops all over “above reproach” on purpose, rendering it utterly meaningless.
oh no! job security and revenue streams are now in jeopardy for all the professional christians associated with said pastor!
but never fear! “biblical” saves the day!
thank God for Galatians 6:1! we’ll co-opt this “restore” concept to save all our @$$es, and as a convenient insurance policy for us professionals should we ‘misstep’.
well, i wish they’d all go the whole way and emasculate themselves. just being biblical here.
The problem with that is finding enough “who live by the Spirit” Christians. I only knew a handful of such folks during my 70+ year tenure in the American church. On the other hand, I knew a LOT “who live by the flesh” churchgoers.
That’s the sort of preachin’ the American church needs!!
My, my. Why do these people talk like this. Rhetoric has its place, but when you talk like this, you’re ducking ridiculous. I hate “sermon voice.” The only thing worse is their “prayer voice.”
“Morton and Hunt both seem to have “restoration” of Hunt as their goal.”
… with standing ovations, shouts of joy, hugs and kisses, etc. … while victims weep in silence, once abused and abused again by being forgotten
You noticed that, too. The only thing worse than “sermon voice” is “preacher hair”.
Piper’s “prayer voice” ranks up there…..
Just an observation. Restoring someone “gently” does not have to equate to restoring them “immediately.”
My kids are doing swim lessons right now. We’ve done group lessons in the past where kids pretty much get in the water right away and are encouraged to start doing deep water bobs.
My kids were having none of that.
So this year we bit the bullet for a private instructor. She is taking things so much more “gently” and gradually, and as a result is accomplishing more in two weeks than the group lessons did in two summers.
Restoring a sinful brother “immediately” might put them right back in the way of temptation (particularly if we’re talking about the temptations of abuse of power/authority). Restoring “gently” or “gradually” has the benefit of pausing or pulling back and finding the appropriate limit for what someone can handle until they build up the spiritual muscles.
And even after years of training, some people’s spiritual muscles will never be equal to others for certain temptations. I am not holding out hope that my kids will become Olympic swimmers just because their first few weeks of private lessons are going smoothly.
If I hear ‘Biblical’ one more time from those professional Christians, I won’t know whether to laugh, cry, or cuss.
Probably all three, although I wouldn’t wanna’ predict in what order.
“My view is Hunt should never preach again. Sure, he can attend church again, but he should not be restored to any type of leadership role. I would love to hear your thoughts in the comment section.”
Thanks for this post, Dee, and for your invitation. (How many religious leaders that talk at podiums and publish books ask for our thoughts? Any, ever? Then offer the opportunity to put our thoughts in print beside them? Like, equally of value? Like they are actually interested in what others have to say? Just curious if this ever actually happens, with value and not perfunctory.)
My thoughts on this are not new. If we’re addressing sin here, John the Baptist, Jesus, and Peter spoke of repentance for sin required to restore fellowship with God and men (people). Repentance required full admission of the sin as well as boots on the ground material restitution and compensation for all wronged: Luke 3.8 & Acts 3.8.
Zacchaeus repaid x4 what he had extorted from others. How should this transgressor compensate his victims? What has been their cost? For actual repentance, this compensation, according to the victims’ needs & viewpoint, must be addressed and fulfilled by the predatory transgressor.
From Psalm 14.4-5
“Don’t they know anything, all these predators?
“Don’t they know they can’t get away with this—
“Treating people like a fast-food meal over which they’re too busy to pray?
“Night is coming for them, and nightmares, for God takes the side of victims.”
– The Message
Well, we see Who has the last word, Who gets the final say.
screechin’ preachin’ is what I call it. I could only get through the first clip. Then I looked for the shortest clip – third one down was only 42 seconds. At the end of that one he whines ‘Trust me, being a pastor in this season has been difficult’. That about says it all – all about them, not those who have been hurt; those who they have been given the charge to care for.
Twelve years ago, right after my service as SBC president, and in the aftermath of my battle
with cancer, I entered into a season of deep despair and probably clinical depression. I remember Janet asking me how I felt and I said to her, “I feel like something inside of me has died.”
I’m pretty sure it was his conscience.
His speaking style is the corniest I’ve seen in awhile. What a delivery with shouting and half smiles of a serious issue.
RANK HATH ITS PRIVILEGES.
“TOUCH NOT MINE ANOINTED!”
“Biblical”, “Scriptural”, “Gospel”, and “Christian” are no longer buzzwords.
They are Cusswords.
Only useful for Mockery.
Whatabout Cash Flow?
The quicker you Restore them into the pulpit, the sooner the money resumes coming in in buckets!
What problem, Max?
Just invoke Christianese One-Upmanship:
“I LIVE IN THE SPIRIT! YOU LIVE BY THE FLESH!”
As in pronouncing “LOOOOOORD” (every other word) with caps lock and multiple “O”s?
Ending every word with an extra “-UH!” syllable?
The overall “See How Godly and Pious I AM”?
“The last shall be first, The first shall take New Hampshire.”
— Jerry “Governor Moonbeam” Brown, Doonesbury, back when he was trying for the White House
Some Christianese is “Biblical”, HUG … can’t throw out God’s plan for His Church because a few knuckleheads are trying to mess it up.
First time poster here. Thanks for the service you are doing by hosting this blog.
As I have been following the stories surrounding the Guideposts Solutions report and the larger issues of the prevalence of so many forms of abuse throughout the organized/institutional church, this question has occurred to me:
“Can a pastor EVER have an affair?”
It would seem that any kind of sexualized/romantic or “inappropriate” relationship or contact with a member of their church or someone looking to them for any kind of spiritual guidance would by definition be abuse because of the power imbalance. Correct?
What if the person were not in that pastor’s congregation and not specifically looking for spiritual guidance from that pastor? Could that person engage in a consensual affair with the pastor?
What if the person were unaware of the pastor’s “occupation;” didn’t know that the pastor was a pastor? Hypothetically (because I’m sure it would never happen-sarcasm), could a pastor go on Tinder (or Grindr), not reveal that he was a pastor, and engage in a consensual sexual affair? Obviously this behavior would require a much different confession than the “I inadvertently slipped in to the temptation that just appeared before me” that seems to be common in these pre-restoration-to-unspecified (ministry) statements. The premeditation and intentionality for a pastor to have a consensual affair rather than engage in abuse would be much less excusable to a congregation, I suspect.
Then again, in the hypothetical, would the information asymmetry constitute its own form of abuse?
I’m curious to hear your thoughts about these questions. I’m not making an argument, just thinking on the screen and trying to process my own experiences in the evangelical world as I grieve for those devastated by what frail human committed to the preservation of power and wealth have done in the name of Christ.
“Can a pastor ever have an affair?’ is a really good question. Let me take a stab at this. Here is what you said.”What if the person were not in that pastor’s congregation and not specifically looking for spiritual guidance from that pastor? Could that person engage in a consensual affair with the pastor?”
I do believe that a woman (or even a man for that matter) could have a consensual relationship with a pastor so long as the pastor is not functionig in any spiritual or employer capacity with the individual. However, it would have to be carefully looked at to make sure tha pastor did not use any coercive measures in that relationship.
Obviously, if this were a traditional church, a male pastor having a relationship with another man could disqualify him on that basis. Also, the intentional use of such websites as Grindr might indicate more problems than “just a slip.”
This is just a quick comment. I’ll think about it further and I hope some folks might also comment.
IMO, yes. I would classify Carl Lentz’s sexual relationship with Ranin Karim an affair. But I would like to know what Diane Langberg thinks.
I agree. I could only take the guy in small doses!
By far my favorite of the videos. The “creepy” factor was off the charts!
If the rest of that sentence is “and still remain a pastor?”, I would say No (IMO).
I believe the Church should take “above reproach, self-controlled, upright, holy, and disciplined” seriously. If a pastor fails morally … if he betrays the trust of his congregation … if he breaks the terms of his calling as sworn to God and the Body of Christ … then I believe he has forfeited the sacred office of pastor permanently. There are no examples of a pastor in the New Testament who had an affair being restored to the pulpit. Folks like to drag David into the discussion at this point, but David was in the military not the ministry.
But then where’s the signal amid all the noise?
Remember the Heresy of Clericalism?
Only Clergy count before God; the rest of us can all go to Hell.
Only nowadays we call Clergy “full time Christian Ministry” instead of Priests, Monks, and Nuns.
I think the answer is obviously “yes” – for pastors seeking a partner outside their congregation.
But what I always read about in stories of pastors abusing congregants is “undue influence”. In every story I’ve read of pastors seeking partners within their congregations, these pastors seek to control the behavior, information, thoughts, and emotions of the person they are abusing. In no sense are they having a consensual “affair”; instead, they are coercing someone into abuse.
A pastor who seeks an affair with someone outside the congregation is unhealthy and needs help. But a pastor using his real or perceived power to abuse a congregant is perpetrating a level of destruction on that congregant that is soul-destroying. Both are horrible – one indicates a truly dangerous person.
I like this. “Betrys the trust of his congregation. I find myself agreeing with you here.
Does anyone remember the Ashley Madison expose some years ago? It was a site that set up affairs for married folks. I remember several pastors, parachurch leaders, politicians and others who were “outed” and their names released. I agree with Paul K, an affair by a pastor is wrong. But if a congregant is being abused, that is soul-destroying. Both are horrible.
“A pastor who seeks an affair with someone outside the congregation is unhealthy and needs help.”
well,….what’s an affair?
it’s quite a loaded, old-fashioned word.
I would tend to agree with your assessment. But I’m a little biased, because my husband was a pastor (unmarried, just to clarify) when we were dating and got engaged. I was not attending or a member of his church.
The whole balance of power thing with a pastor’s romantic relationships is just incredibly awkward, in my tends-to-overthink-things opinion. Particularly in super hierarchical complementarian/patriarchal churches. Like, what does this mean for his relationship with his wife, if he is in spiritual authority over her? Is the entire marriage an abuse of power?
And some people put pastors in a position of spiritual authority even if they’re not members of said pastor’s church. I remember once during my engagement (to my now-husband), a complete stranger I was sitting next to at a wedding reception was making polite small talk and discovered that my fiancé was a pastor. The gentleman (who had to be in his 50s, while I was only 27 at the time)’s whole demeanor changed, and he became almost fawning. Like some of my fiancés “pastoral glory” had rubbed off on me. It was weird, to say the least. If a woman has a similar reaction to a pastor, even a woman who is not a member of his church, does that immediately make any romantic interest he has of her an abuse of power?
Genuine questions I’m mulling over. Don’t necessarily have answers to.
But I’d tend to agree with Todd and his comment about Carl Lentz’s affair. And Max, that any affair (with or without a congregation member) would disqualify a pastor. I would think that secrecy surrounding a relationship would be a red flag. And that a relationship with someone outside the congregation (and outside any counselor/client relationship) would be a good guideline to start with.
I’ve grown highly suspicious of people who exhibit a lot of control over their own voice and who routinely deploy that skill; I intuit that they have developed skill in use of their own voice as an instrument with which to manipulate people.
Yep. It’s pure manipulation. It has a Jedi effect with weak minds.
as well as to intimidate and dominate … folks who use their voice to speak with authority to control others do so with an illegitimate authority
Robert Schuller was a master at this
Our pastor, who just retired after many years of service in our church, told us that he almost wasn’t allowed to go on in the seminary he went to (not a Baptist one) because of his raspy voice; they didn’t think it sounded pastor-y enough, I guess…
Glad that stupid idea didn’t win out in the end.
It was part of the grand show he put on each Sunday in his Crystal Cathedral.
“Hurry, Hurry, Hurry, Step Right Up To The Greatest Show On Earth!” shouted the carnival barker. Yep, American church folks are some of the most gullible on the planet.
Scientology Tone 40 Voice.
(A direct knockoff of “The Voice” from Dune.)
Never mind his HUGE spectacles on Christmas and Easter.
Schuller once said if he wasn’t a preacher, he’d have been in showbiz, he enjoyed putting on those spectaculars so much.
In the words of the prophets Emerson, Lake, and Palmer:
“WELCOME BACK MY FRIENDS
TO THE SHOW THAT NEVER ENDS!
WE’RE SO GLAD YOU COULD ATTEND!
COME INSIDE! COME INSIDE!”
And where is Crystal Cahtedral now?
Gone the way of all personality cults. When the cult leader steps aside, everything he touched disappears … except confused and disillusioned followers.
When one’s focus is on the cathedral, on the leader, on the teaching, on church as entertainment … on everything but Jesus … it never ends well for either the pulpit or the pew. (I got this wisdom from my dear wife just now)
It might be a 3-step process:
The 3 keys to the kingdom of authoritarian autocracies of strongmen.
Once a leader arrives there, he has joined the Mob that circles their wagons and backs each other up. Planes, fame, and mansions, oh yeah.
Who are their hitmen? Their faithful lawyers handing out NDAs and covenants? Their Social Media misinformation attack dog sycophants that gaslight anyone who sheds light?
“This indeed is a fountain-qualification of a Preacher, to be travailing in birth till Christ be formed in hearers; and so to preach to them, as hungering and thirsting for their Salvation, and not having only before him the proposing of some profitable matter, or the handling of some point exactly; nay; not only his own exoheration, and the justifying of God by making the hearers inexcusable; but a single serious desire to have them gathered and espoused to Christ; that the proud may be humbled, the hypocrite convinced, and the Word made the favour of life unto life unto them according to their case” (James Durham: Commentarie upon the Book of Revelation, published 1680).
It’s now “Christ Cathedral,” a building owned by the Catholic diocese of Orange.
I still think the world would have been better off by having that glass human cooker torn down but not my choice.
Indeed Max. Small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life and only a few find it.
Talk is cheap. I used to think when somebody said they were Christian that meant they were trying to walk as a disciple of Jesus in humility, forgiveness, truth, and servanthood. Now I don’t assume it means anything until proven otherwise. The corollary is I’m quite amazed when I find a genuine disciple. Even among the clergy class.
Or on basically good-hearted and highly empathetic people. Years of painful experience has led me to the view that the most prudent posture to adopt toward people whom you don’t already know well is “cautious suspicion”. Try to verify everything, and take warning when this is resisted. Possibly manipulative church leader doesn’t want to be 100% transparent about matters of valid public interest, such as church finances? Run.
i find that manipulation is simply baked in to the church leadership industry.
i look at my most recent church (which i felt was the best and most honest of churches i’ve been a part of).
the leaders are decent, good human beings trying to do their best.
but i observed manipulative speech patterns and presentation of information. i imagine they, too, are influenced by such things by their ‘influencers’.
it’s just the done thing, the emulated thing, the industry standard for how to do church, despite best intentions.
It has been reported that 70% of Americans identify as Christian … in name only, for sure. Religious perhaps, but 70% of Americans are not disciples of Christ truly. If 200+ million Americans were real-deal Christians, walking-talking-Jesus-loving believers, the world would know it. Where’s the fruit?
a rare and endangered species
“When I came to proclaim to you God’s secret purpose, I did not come equipped with any brilliance of speech or intellect … What I said and preached had none of the attractiveness of the clever mind, but it was a demonstration of the power of the Spirit! Plainly God’s purpose was that your faith should not rest upon man’s cleverness but upon the power of God.” (1 Corinthians 2:1-5 Phillips)
In the absence of a demonstration of the power of the Spirit on a ministry, much of the American pulpit resorts to brilliance of speech, intellect, and cleverness. So, the beat goes on.
thank you. It’s important to not swing 100% of the way from “bad systems” toward “bad people” as explanations for the problems one sees.
But there are “bad people”. It is thought that roughly one in 25 has sociopathic personality traits. I have become hypersensitive to this possibility in the people I deal with.
Thanks for the reminder that even the good people are trapped in their systems. (That sounds a bit Marxist — KM thought that the problems of capitalism were not down simply to ‘bad capitalists,’ but that the system itself constrained them to do what they do)/ Perhaps it’s a form of Gresham’s Law, applied to religion — ‘bad church drives out good’.
The evangelical church culture that idolizes pastors is insane. I have never seen so many mediocre-to-perfectly-adequate men given so much undeserved adoration and influence. It’s a narcissistic culture – so many pastors real-life education, achievements, and skills DO NOT MERIT the praise they receive. It’s so sad for everyone involved because I think most pastors would benefit from a realistic evaluation of their abilities – but there is no one to give that to them.
“Elders with a gift of leadership should be considered worthy of respect, and of adequate salary, particularly if they work hard at their preaching and teaching.” (1 Timothy 5:17 Phillips)
Respect and adequate pay if they are deserved, certainly. But idolized?!
And another thing … borrowing sermons from the internet is not working hard at preaching and teaching … in fact, God says He is against such folks:
“Therefore behold (hear this), I am against the counterfeit prophets,” says the Lord, who steal My words from one another.” (Jeremiah 23:30 AMP)
He ‘was’ in showbiz!
As usual elastigirl, you’re right.
That’s exactly what it is.
An effin’ industry.
Just throwing it out there but my guess is most congregations would benefit from the pastor paying for a sermon from the internet instead of coming up with one himself during 20+ hrs/week of his own study. 😉
YES. You might like this Christianity Today article about the benefits of establishing regular feedback channels in churches: https://www.christianitytoday.com/pastors/2022/spring/dont-need-thicker-skin-criticism-feedback-ike-miller.html
Oh Lord, how many “sermons” I suffered through during my 70+ years in church … preached by “pastors” for 30-60 minutes without really saying anything.
Read it when it came out. Loved it. Saved it. Sent it to people.
“But there are “bad people”.”
“‘bad church drives out good’.”
it’s the weirdest thing….
how is it that Jesus’ namesake religion and people who claim to follow him generate such destructive, cruel, and stupid systems (including doctrine)?
how is it Jesus’ namesake group attracts, promotes, and enables many people of the worst character for its leaders? (my atheist, agnostic, muslim and hindu friends and family have the highest integrity without even trying)
how is it Jesus’ namesake everything, as a whole, looks nothing like Jesus of Nazareth?
i mean, i recently read the book of Luke, the whole thing. (It had been a while.)
the person i read about bore no resemblance to this thing called church, or christian culture, or all the things that christians talk about and write about.
my silly religion has become a caricature of itself.
but this is old news.
I hope all guns have been removed from Hall and any premises where he might live. He is in a dangerous state. Dangerous to others and to himself. He needs medical and psychological help.
Sorry, this is on the wrong thread. Please ignore.
So much of current “American Church” avoids the Gospels….
But then, Christ did not know John Calvin…. If he did, I an sure he would cited his “Home boy” Calvin….
It’s not only lawyers who can talk for a hour and say absolutely nothing.
Headless Unicorn Guy,
P.S. Max, everybody:
Here’s a TED Talk on just that subject:
Remind you of any speeches or sermons?
Thankfully, Calvin knew God and His Son Jesus because this is what he says in 2 Timothy 1:8 about the importance of preaching the Gospel. “2 Timothy 1:8 – He infers this from what has been already said; for he who is armed with the power of God will not tremble at the noise raised by the world, but will reckon it honourable that wicked men mark them with disgrace.
And justly does he call the gospel the testimony of our Lord; because, although he has no need of our assistance, yet he lays upon us this duty, that we shall give “testimony” to him for maintaining his glory. It is a great and distinguished honour which he confers upon us, and, indeed, upon all, (for there is no Christian that ought not to reckon himself a witness of Christ,) but chiefly pastors and teachers, as Christ said to the apostles,—“Ye shall be witnesses to me.” (Acts 1:8.) Accordingly, the more hateful the doctrine of the gospel is in the world, the more earnestly should they labour to confess it openly.”
And a few weeks before he died, he addressed a letter to the ministers of Geneva and said, among other things, “As to my doctrine, I have taught faithfully, and God has given me grace to write what I have written as faithfully as it was in my power. I have not falsified a single passage of the Scriptures, nor given it a wrong interpretation to the best of my knowledge; and though I might have introduced subtle senses, had I studied subtilty, I cast that temptation under my feet and always aimed at simplicity.
I have written nothing out of hatred to any one, but I have always faithfully propounded what I esteemed to be for the glory of God.”
From which I conclude that not only did Calvin know God, but that God knew Calvin, contrary to your vain surmising.
People who burn other people alive for not believing the way they do, do not know God.
He was a man of his time and constrained by the customs of his time, just like Paul, Jesus,…
Ken F (aka Tweed),
Well he didn’t, so get over it.
I stand corrected. No one who pushes the first domino can blamed for what happens with later dominoes…
Exactly, because more humane ways of killing heretics are much better. For example, Calvin preferred decapitation for Servetus rather than burning at the stake. In any case, executions back then were quite popular and encouraged:
Ken F (aka Tweed),
Who was it that ordered Servtus burned on a pyre of GREEN wood (which burns much more slowly)?
Still are among Christians.
The diocese had been looking for a cathedral site for some time, even starting construction on one in Santa Ana. And when the Crystal Cathedral Fire Sale went down, they couldn’t pass up the bargain.
I understand the building took a lot of internal remodeling and refurbishing. It also includes a lot of office spaces, so they were able to close down the old diocesan offices – “Marywood” in the hills east of where Lincoln Blvd crosses the 55 Freeway.