In the comments section of a recent article one of our unpaid, but not unnoticed crack researchers came across the video below and published a link so we could all access it. We found the video quite curious and wanted to display it so all our readers could see it and give us their thoughts on it.
I will preface the video by saying it was posted in October 2015. Danny Akin’s book, “God on Sex” was released in 2003. Bruce Ashford was married in 2007.
In other related news, you will recall that in my last post about Bruce Ashford I posted our email exchange questioning if he was still employed by SEBTS. I did this because even though his own CV says he left his Provost position at SEBTS in the summer of 2020 and he left his position as Professor at SEBTS in October of 2020 the bio on his blog still claims he holds those positions.
Bruce responded to my email on April 16, thanking me for the heads up and he stated he would be working on correcting the error that morning.
I checked back today and the erroneous information in his bio has yet to be removed.
Additionally, while conducting further research I noticed Bruce Ashford’s bio on his Amazon page also contains the erroneous information. I think it’s fair to say Ashford wants the world to think he remains gainfully employed at SEBTS.
My comment on the other post about Ashford applies here as well:
From the Introduction to Akin’s book “God on Sex: The Creator’s Ideas about Love, Intimacy, and Marriage” …
“Sex was God’s idea. Yes, I know it is hard to believe, but God is the one who came up with this fantastic idea, and I believe He was having a really good day when He did!” (Danny Akin)
Whew! God was having a really good day?!! These guys creep me out big time! (please wake me up when the New Calvinist nightmare is over)
A friend’s little boy said the word “poopy” during classroom snack time and the whole class fell silent. Attention.
The teacher quietly reminded the boy to mind his manners. Next day the little guy repeated the antic, (more attention) so the teacher called the parents. The attention-getting antics stopped. Done.
The above video and the T4G one recently posted on twitter with Piper, bring to mind that little guy’s attention-getting use of vernacular. The little student’s parents were not entertained. At all.
Too bad it takes so little and such crassness to entertain church folk. Pathetic.
I can’t believe he can say this with a straight face… what a farce! I kept waiting for the punch line that never came. If this was my most important contribution to the understanding of the glorious good news of the Gospel, I would blush in shame and feel I had wasted any time I had spent in seminary or studying the Holy Scriptures.
I wouldn’t put it past internet incompetence for being unable to update the info. He might well depend on third parties to do so (such as his publisher for the Amazon info, and, I doubt he maintains his blog himself [beyond perhaps being able to add new blog posts]) and not want to admit that.
Why are these guys so obsessed with sex?
As HUG would say, they’re as obsessed with it as the secular culture is, but in the opposite direction.
To me it seems as though Mr Akin was perhaps trying to promote his book under the guise of roasting Ashford, but he is so uptight it failed miserably. At one point I see what looks like a little smirk trying to break through. But what a weird thing to roast anyone about much less record it for all to see.
Erp,
He knew how to change his Facebook bio and to mark himself as “single.” Just sayin’.
If anyone knows or has heard something as to why he was fired, please reply to this comment (even anonymously). Thanks.
In addition to how weird that is, there is also the irony of the massive amount of books, videos, podcasts, sermons, blogs, tweets, and conferences pushed by people who insist on sola scriptura. Apparently alone does not really mean alone. And, of course, there is not much money to be made in scripture alone.
That’s a valuable tip, John. Thanks. His Facebook account also says where he is working – The Kirby Laing Center. His only problem is he has to raise his own support.
Ken F (aka Tweed),
It’s a good point, but I think the premise behind this Protestant tenet was that the church/es shouldn’t focus on discovering the meaning of traditions and teachings of men (via the Catholic Church). Meaning lay within the biblical texts themselves. But how Protestants have created their own hierarchies and microcosms, some that overshadow the Roman Catholic Church, is where the folly is. And in that sense your words apply so well.
Todd Wilhelm,
If you read a bit more on his Facebook page he mentions having to drive for Lyft 20-30 hours a week to make ends meet. From Provost to Lyft/Uber driver???
I don’t have anything against Bruce Ashford or Daniel Akin per se. But I am appalled at the “coverup” proclivities for the good boy clubs, especially in Evangelical world. Private life is private life, but when you can’t even finish out a semester because the powers that be know the “moderate” Baptists will call attention to scandals in “conservative” controlled entities, then you know it is bad.
We just want Ashford/Akin to issue a statement and acknowledge something happened… and if it’s a matter being relegated to the local church, then, well, say so, and then the issue can be directed to Summit. But my guess is JD can’t handle one more scandal, and this one is a big one.
I bet JD and Summit are doing one of those good boy club restorations…. I wonder how that will fly when it comes to light.
True, which is why it was not good for them to use the word sola, which literally means alone. No one uses scripture alone – we all interepet ot through our theological traditions and biases. It seems now that many use it in the alone sense when it is convenient as a way to dismiss tradition they don’t agree with with, but they reject the alone sense otherwise.
Ken F (aka Tweed),
Yeah, I wasn’t trying to correct you. Just wanted to offer some additional thoughts. Of course, it could be said that we shouldnt just use “faith” either in that sense (what about works?), or Christ (what about the Father and the Holy Spirit?). You have to understand the reason for sola; it doesn’t mean alone in the sense of “apart from interpretation.”
John,
Ken F (aka Tweed),
Luther believed in sola scriptura, and he was writing books and treatises and commentaries.
John,
You make good points here… IF “religous orgs” were just private “buinesses”, then they have the “right” to keep things “quite”. But, “religious orgs” rely on donors, AND, most seem to take very public stands on morality, espcially when it comes to us pew peons.. but, as we unfortuantely keep seeing, not for themselves..
Thank you for your comment. It has been quite helpful.
Thanks go to Jerome “Knower of All Things” for finding this video.
Jeffrey J Chalmers,
It’s private business when it happens to one of the “boys.” It goes public if it is one of us “little people.”
Jeffrey J Chalmers,
And Ashford appears to continue this theme; his blog is a public stand on morality among other topics.
I wonder what he would write in his blog if Joe Biden just immediately stepped down, no explanation from the powers that be, and Kamala was installed as president…. What would the evangelical response in the public square be? Does the public have a right to know?
dee,
Yup…
Just like Johnny MAc shamming the wife, during communion, (see other posts and Julie Roy if not familiar with the situation) yet his own son, who is a a board member of Grace to You, his father’s radio ministry, is charged by the SEC for defrauding investors of $16 Million….
https://www.sec.gov/litigation/complaints/2020/comp24738.pdf
You know, defrading investors, assoicated with MacArthur’s ministry, of $16 million, and the SEC filling a “complaint” is not a “minor offense”
but then, I am just a “pew peon” that does not know much..
Great comment! Yep, the NeoCal elite couldn’t make it on Scripture alone … they need the big bucks coming in by merchandising ‘their’ gospel.
“And My people love to have it so!” (Jeremiah 5:31 AMP)
The pulpit in far too many places gives the pew what they want. Pulpit actors would have no stage if it weren’t for the pew buying tickets to the show. Preachers don’t blush like they used to; they say and do pretty much anything these days to get a laugh and applause. It seems that sex has moved to top of the list on sermon topics.
I noticed that Akin said that Ashford will forever be thankful to him. Seems to me he has a problem with humility.
I was basically told I was not a performer at my last SBC church I pastored and that it was time for me to go. I resigned and have zero regrets. I never strived to be a performer as a minister.
…….. making money off of “christianized” peep shows???
“I know it is hard to believe, but God is the one who came up with this fantastic idea …”
Translation: I like to ejaculate!
These people’s concept of God grosses me out.
Neither were first-century pastors … you’re in good company. The 21st century church bears little resemblance to that modeled in the New Testament. Church as entertainment has taken over and “My people love it so.”
In my humble, but accurate, opinion, I believe you are right! Arrogance is the defining characteristic of New Calvinist leaders … love is not.
“Son of man, do you see what they are doing, the great repulsive acts which the house of Israel is committing here … do you see what the elders of the house of Israel do in the dark, each man in his secret room” (Ezekiel 8)
This is definitely a weird and creepy little clip. Is this guy promoting his book? If so why does he need to talk about his colleague’s sex life to do that? But I don’t see what this might have to do with Ashford leaving his job under hush hush circumstances. Context??
Last words of the creepy clip: “…he will forever be thankful for me for putting that book in his hands.”
Why, the jokes just write themselves!
Whatever it takes to sell books! It could be that most young, restless and reformed (Akin’s primary audience) are restless about their sex lives. They sure aren’t restless about preaching the real Gospel … in their world, grace covers everything so they can spend more time thinking about themselves.
On a more serious note: according to this mindset, the needs of men can be met in only one way, through the addition of a wife. Nowadays, Americans are marrying in their late twenties, and a hefty percentage of people never marry at all.
Lest anyone conclude that I think we should all “sin, that grace may abound,” no. I just want to point out that plenty of unmarried people are well-adjusted and productive. Not half-people.
The video describes a book lecture with an unmarried man in the audience as “his last gasp and his last hope.” I was married well into adulthood, so I know something about loneliness and wondering if I would ever find what I wanted. But I did not feel broken, flawed, or less than a person.
I also didn’t feel like a solution to the problem of an incomplete man. Yuck.
yes, i noticed that statement. so much humility-NOT
I don’t believe this video had anything directly to do with Ashford’s employment at SEBTS being terminated. It does, however, give us some insight into the relationship between Akin and Ashford and I believe when the truth comes out this will make more sense.
The strange thing about this is it’s the church telling young folks this lie not the world! Instead of teaching that you can be complete in Christ (not broken, flawed or less than a person), they are laying a burden on singles to get married as quickly as possible … it’s the Christian thing to do!
“Putting off marriage until their late 20s makes men, in particular, more vulnerable to lust … If you’re 17, 18, 19, 20 or in your early 20s, what are you waiting for?” (Al Mohler)
https://goodfaithmedia.org/southern-baptist-leader-labels-putting-off-marriage-sinful-cms-4434/
Todd Wilhelm,
Fair enough. As for “insight into the relationship between Akin and Ashford,” well, I still can’t understand why this guy thought that talking about his colleague’s (boss’s? Not sure where a provost fits in the chain of command) lack of a sex life was a good look.
Haven’t read any of the commentary yet (nor the book Danny Akin mentions), but after watching the video… Bruce read a book about sex, realized what he was missing, and so got married?
How humiliating.
For both Bruce and especially his wife. Without defining in that clip what he specifically means by “sex,” most of us are going to assume Aiken is talking about simply the physical act. And so Bruce and his wife’s entire relationship gets defined by something animals do by instinct to procreate. (A) Why did Akin make something like this public and (b) why didn’t Bruce ask him to take it down?
Ditto.
Max,
The racy stories, and references only to the needs of men, are not new. Our youth pastor told us all about the joys of newlywed life, how he couldn’t wait for classes at seminary to end every weekday so he could rush home to his new wife. I couldn’t find enough ways to cringe. Wasn’t he supposed to be paying attention in class? What if he came home and his wife was at the store? What about weekends?
Worst of all… every last one of us knew his wife well, since she often helped with the youth group. I was embarrassed for her, and not convinced that she knew her husband was describing their intimate life to 150 teenagers.
I think the youth pastor was trying to tell us (mostly the boys, of course) to wait till marriage, and reassure us that yes, just one person for your entire life would be interesting enough. It was an absolutely mortifying sermon.
In my husband’s situation, he was waiting for ME! There is an age difference between us that would have been problematic in his teens and early twenties.
Friend,
Max,
It is very silly. The guy looks pretty young in the photos. Was he really headed for a sad life of eternal celibacy 10+ years ago? Is the SBC treating young seminarians like unmarried ladies in an Austen novel-expired at age 30?
Has Al ever talked to a 17-year-old? They’re pretty awesome, but a lot of them can’t sit still, let alone build a life.
I’m blessed to know quite a few singles in their mid twenties. Emotionally they are far more prepared to share their lives, but most are too humble and wise to believe they are ready to step into marriage. They want to be able to support themselves—modestly—and to know somebody long enough to believe the relationship will last. My parents and grandparents approached marriage in much the same way.
It’s the same Al Mohler who said:
“Where else are they gonna go? I mean, what options are there? If you’re a theologically minded, deeply convictional young evangelical, if you’re committed to the gospel and you want to see the nations rejoice in the name of Christ, if you want to see gospel-built and structured and committed churches, your theology is just gonna end up basically being Reformed, basically being something like this New Calvinism or you’re gonna have to invent some other label for what’s just gonna be the same thing. There just are not options out there. And that’s something that I think frustrates some people. But when I am asked about the New Calvinism, I will say just basically, where else are they gonna go? Who else is gonna answer the questions? Where else will they find the resources they need? And where else are they gonna connect? This is a generation that understands, they want to say the same thing Paul said. They want to stand with the Apostles. They want to stand with old, dead people. And they know they are going to have to if they are going to preach and teach the truth.”
Obviously, Mr. Mohler doesn’t have a lick of sense about young people or Biblical Christianity. Where else are they gonna go? Don’t head Mohler’s way, young folks!
Yet another reason why the American church needs to seriously rethink its youth ministry model. You will not find the office of “Youth Pastor” in the New Testament model for doing church. Instead, old folks mentored young folks. The youth ministry model used in the American church are hormones waiting to happen! Mostly flesh and no Spirit.
Friend,
“ They want to be able to support themselves—modestly… My parents and grandparents approached marriage in much the same way.”
Not to mention, prior generations’ salaries went further at younger ages than young adults’ wages do now. My contemporaries (millennials) generally couldn’t dream of supporting a family at age 19 or 20. The oldsters telling younger generations to hurry up and get married do not understand the world teens and young adults live in now.
Sounds a lot like he was bragginag about his Smokin HAWT Wife, which to me means “See What I’ve Got That YOU CAN’T HAVE?”
As well as skating close to the Youth Group shtick of getting the kids to Save Themselves for Marriage (the de facto goal of the group) by bribing them with Promises of Swinging-from-the-Chanedeliers Dynamite S*E*X on your wedding night and hereafter. Not only does this require the Christian Bride to instantly morph from Virgin Unto Death to Hubby’s Personal Porn Star (fulfilling years of built-up fantasies) on the first night, but it seeds a LOT of unrealistic expectations in general.
It’s called Salvation by Marriage Alone, with expiration-date ages like the Old Maids in a Jane Austin novel.
Probably linked to Quiverfull Bedroom Evangelism; the younger you marry, the sooner you can start breeding New Christians.
AKA Only Men Count, not wimmenfolk.
“Boyz Rule, Gurlz Drool!” in fluent Christianese.
Both inside and outside the churches, women are primarily-to-exculsively for Sex (and/or breeding).
WHERE’S THE COMPANIONSHIP?
Before I got too old, I remember searching for COMPANIONSHIP, not Orgasm. And found none.
And my time in the Christianese Bubble just made things worse.
And when they find someone or something that gives them more of that entertainment dopamine fix, they’ll ditch their old dopamine fix for that greater high. With or without Bible quotes and/or long prayers for justification.
Looking at the Greear video and now the Akin one this is beginning to look like a pointed public campaign against Ashford by them.
Ever looked at one of their “want me to speak” forms?
https://bryanloritts.com/speaking
I think Luther would not be pleased with how “sola scriptura” is often used today. But it is a self-inflicted wound in protestantism because it literally means “alone” when “alone” is not how he apparently intended people to understand it. I see it used both ways, depending on which way most benefits the user.
John,
Wow, isn’t he just all that?
Headless Unicorn Guy on Tue Apr 26, 2022 at 04:04 PM said:
“As well as skating close to the Youth Group shtick of getting the kids to Save Themselves for Marriage (the de facto goal of the group) by bribing them with Promises of Swinging-from-the-Chanedeliers Dynamite S*E*X on your wedding night and hereafter.”
Don’t forget the warning of forever hell-fire if they don’t knuckle under and refrain from unmarried sex.
Cynthia W.,
At least he and his “accountability” intern don’t require first-class tickets. Or maybe that’s what the extra $1000 is for a flight over three hours, because airplane meals sure don’t cost that much, even adding booze in.
Friend,
Public in jokes are sinister and are actually at public expense.
The people that planned the “seminaries” didn’t want there to be a level playing field for the population of the world any more, they didn’t want anyone to have agency, they didn’t want anyone to know Scripture truth so they said they were speaking in the name of Scripture. That is why the worldly powers have followed suit.
Wild Honey,
Airplane ticket pricing is not based on the duration of the flight, so I assume that Mr. Lorrits and his “accountability intern” (*snicker*) are treating the value of their time as solid gold.
This man covered up for his brother-in-law, who was taking video of women and girls in the bathroom. Anyone who hires him for anything is either ignorant or corrupt. And it’s cult thinking to believe he has anything valuable to say about Christianity that members of one’s own congregation – no matter how small – couldn’t say.
Cynthia W.,
This really is nuts. How JD doesn’t have to account for that dumbfounds me. The evidence is so clear. Imagine how they laugh and cut up in that Summit good boy club. And they finally have a leader who is that shade of not-white. Was the timing right for that move at Summit? You bet it was. And when they realized they had hired an enabler, they dug their trenches. How dare we in the public get in the way of their noble transition to diversity that coincided with JD’s presidency? And they can’t even get his picture up on their site? What’s going on with that? They know as little about websites as Bruce Ashford.
https://summitchurch.com/about/staff
John,
If you can’t hold a person accountable in leadership for being disingenuous about his academic accomplishments, then you have a major leadership problem. “Dr.” helps sell books. Here’s another example of title abuse just 25 miles from Summit: “Dr.” Stephen Davey at Shepherds in Cary, NC. That guy has been milking his honorary doctor degree from Hindustan Bible Institute for decades now. I think issues like that indicate there are far deeper problems under the surface, both with the individuals themselves and the chuches/seminaries they lead.
John,
https://www.twr360.org/speakers/view/id,466
https://youtu.be/v8hmA2llN3o
https://www.truthnetwork.com/ondemand/wisdom-for-the-heart-dr-stephen-davey/
https://bbn1.bbnradio.org/english/home/all-programs/wisdom-for-the-heart-dr-stephen-davey/
https://voice.dts.edu/contributor/stephen-davey/
https://www.necep.org/site/cpage.asp?cpage_id=140033270&sec_id=140000662
https://m.facebook.com/ShepherdsSeminary/posts/dr-stephen-davey-spoke-at-the-2019-convocation-service-welcoming-students-and-th/2630549853642573/
I could do this all day long. What’s curious is Shepherds knows a little more about technology and the internet than Bruce Ashford. They don’t do that “doctor” stuff in his about me page for the seminary. Why not there but they do it with conferences at churches and on book promotion and radio ministry? The answer is pride and money, folks. Pride and money.
John,
Great comment.
Hope Church in Las Vegas has been able to get Loritts on their website! He is their “visiting teaching pastor” and is there about once every three months. https://hopechurchlv.com/teaching-team/ Now that senior Pastor Vance Pitman has resigned it remains to be seen whether Hope Church of Las Vegas will keep paying Loritts to speak at their church. Vance and Loritts are good friends from way back in their Memphis days.
dee,
Yup…
It also shows a desire to be “more credible”…. While do not know about these folks, I have seen people with honorary “degrees” turn around and “discredit” higher education as a bunch of “secular humanist” …..
sigh..l
Todd Wilhelm,
Veeeeerrrrry interesting. These people go where the money is. And they move on when it runs out (or low) and when someone wiser turns off the spigot.
At first glance I read that as “senior pastor Vladimir Putin”.
Misread or Prophecy?
“Give ‘en time…”
Let me guess…
Reads like a Celebrity flyer from The Smoking Gun?
New Calvinism is an assemblage of lots of creepy things … slimy leaders, overemphasis on sex, little playgroups, youth leaders who struggle with hormones … it’s just not a good bunch for female believers to be hanging out with.
Haha. While not Putin, Pitman probably has enough cash to be an oligarch. I’d keep my eye on him, it’s rare these types leave a high paying job and the limelight unless there is a sexual scandal involved.
Agreed… and I know you know this, but it’s sometimes overlooked. It’s also a bad bunch for the males. They need examples of integrity, self-restraint, kindness, reliability, honesty, faithfulness, tolerance, etc., etc., etc., etc. Instead they often get a guy who’s a complete mess, held up as a hero.
I would suggest he might be afraid someone would recognize him, but that would be kind of cynical of me.
Maybe Vance knows what happened to Lorrits’s brother-in-law’s cell phone.
New Calvinism heroes of the faith are anything but that. They are falling into shame left and right … the watchblogs cover one or more NeoCal bad-boy scandals per week. Such poor examples for young men. When Paul instructed believers to imitate him and other church leaders, he had no idea that the church would have such a bad leadership crop as we do today.
In my church (RCC) the Saints originated as officially-designated Heroes of the Faith.
Are the NewCals going ROMISH?
Or are they more like Caesar Caligula proclaiming himself a God while still alive to enjoy all the perks? In my church, living people cannot be canonized as Saints until “all their life is completed”; only then can their entire life be evaluated. (Skeptics say that like Heroes of the Soviet Union, it’s so they’re not around to contradict the Official Propaganda Story.)
WTF is an “accountability intern”?
The latest cover identity for a mistress or rentboy?
I don’t know enough about Summit to say whether they’d send a young woman as Lorrits’s aide/intern. I think the general idea is that Mr. Lorrits can’t be trusted on his own, so an intern/trainee goes with him on trips, either to rat him out or to help cover up (or both) any bathroom-filming incidents, and probably also to fetch for the Big Cheese.
Headless Unicorn Guy,
Quote from the Speaker Request form: “For accountability and teaching reasons, Pastor Bryan likes to travel with an intern from the church. Are you able to cover the flight of an intern as well?”
I assume that if an organization says, “No, we’re not rolling in dough, like ‘Pastor Bryan’,” it would be told he was busy, sorry, unless there was some overriding benefit for Summit’s marketing in his attendance.
Headless Unicorn Guy,
Didn’t that Ravi Zachariah guy have some of those (some of them were big name Baptists)? Did it help prevent the scandal or just help everyone pretend all was well? And didn’t that weird leadership pastor up in Chicago have them too? Hmmmm.
John,
Remember the famous Bill Hybels quote: “Almost every pastor I know who has wound up in a ditch had accountability structures around them and just gamed them.”
Game on.
“We believe he did not receive feedback as well as he gave it, and he resisted the accountability structures we all need.” (Willow Creek Elders)
So much for accountability structures in mega-mania. Bottom-line: celebrity pastors are not accountable to anyone … they are too big to fail. Unless the potato becomes too hot to handle, they can darn near do whatever they want to. Multiple examples prove this to be true (Hybels, Driscoll, MacDonald, etc. etc.)
John,
Good observations. “Accountability structures” are no solution to bad character.
I don’t need to take an intern with me for “accountability” when I go places.
As I’ve said before, all it takes to be successful in “ministry” is to have a touch of charisma, a gift of gab, and a bag of gimmicks. Charisma without character is playing out all over mega-mania … it’s tough to find the fingerprints of God on any of it.
Headless Unicorn Guy on Wed Apr 27, 2022 at 04:12 PM said:
“WTF is an “accountability intern”?”
+++++++++++++
someone whose next step is to invent the job classification of “Accountability Pastor” so he gets the tax deductions, exemptions, and higher salary.
elastigirl,
False witness, then.
Even though I suspected this was the case, it still surprises me this is the situation he finds himself in. Why didn’t some big SEBTS donor fly him and L somewhere for intense marriage helps?
Burwell Stark,
Good question. I guess they tried one of Akin’s marriage conferences instead.
I’ve asked some of the SBC bloggers to respond, but they won’t yet… I love those guys over at SBCVOICES, but it is so frustrating how they are reactive with their blog instead of proactive. Mark my words, they’ll respond when it feels a bit more trendy and inescapable. But you, they could respond now instead and simply debate/discuss whether it’s reasonable to expect an SBC entity to account for a vacant position in the middle of teaching semester especially when that person had been one semester prior the Provost of the entity. It’s not about beating up an individual. It’s about setting a new trend for how those in leadership respond when something happens that is reprehensible.
—
Here is Dave Miller’s reply to my question that I asked in the comments: “A semi-anonymous commenter using a suspicious email continues to ask questions about the resignation of a former SBC seminary employee, and questions why his comments are deleted. He references free speech. Folks, we don’t have a lot of rules, but one is that your comments need to have something to do with the post. An interview with Daniel Dickard is not the place to debate whatever you want.”
Do you know why I have to use a suspicious email? Because there isn’t an avenue for thinking freely within the Neocal world! And for what it’s worth, there wasn’t when Paige was controlling the SBC either.
—
Here is my first reply which will be deleted shortly: “Thank you for your comment and clarification, Dave.
But if you never write about how Ashford went from provost of SEBTS to (according to his Facebook page) driving 20-30 hours a week for Uber, then how can we debate/discuss whether SBC entities should just dissolve relationships without any explanation to those who support its mission via prayers and monies? And if we are honest, it appears like SEBTS has a pattern of letting men ride off into the sunset after they do something morally ….
You mentioned a “resignation.” That’s optimistic. People don’t resign in October in higher ed and the go drive for Uber/Lyft. Dee over at Wartburg Watch is right: SEBTS should have at least said something. Talk about suspicious; why don’t you use that word to describe them sweeping this under the rug?”
—
And here is my second reply aimed at trying to fit within the context of their original post, the interview with a candidate for President of thenPastor’s Conference: “Can I ask a follow-up question to Daniel Dickard? Daniel, there is a lot of talk in the SBC these days about accountability and transparency, especially in protecting the vulnerable and weak, but also in tearing down strongholds of power that so often foster the abuse we hate to see in churches and entities. You even mentioned having character be a theme at the Conference if you are elected. I am curious, what do you think SBC leaders should do when one of their own group falls down? Should it just go unaccounted for, or should there be some sort of statement that acknowledges the sin and the steps that are being taken to protect the entity and provide care for those affected and the one who transgressed? Or what do you think the proper response should be? Thank you for taking my question.”
Will it pass the test and get posted? And will this candidate respond to my inquiry? Or will SBCVOICES respond and react when Twitter is going crazy about the topic and they decide to come to the party?
John,
If you have a screenshot of Ashford writing about driving for Uber would you mind sending me a copy? I searched his FB and couldn’t find it. I would guess he purged it.
tlwdxb@protonmail.com
Thanks
Todd Wilhelm,
It was in one of his fundraising notes and he specifically stressed how he was driving 20-30 hours per week driving for Lyft (my mistake; it wasn’t Uber). But it’s incredible I can’t find it now. It was there. More evidence Bruce knows how to update his info. It’s crazy, Todd. Something serious happened with Bruce. I think his wife Lauren is the only one who is going to be able to break the en e. SBC leaders are hellbent on protecting the brand.
I’ll look for it some more. But I’m definitely not making up what I saw.
John,
The candidate responded to my question. FYI: Dave Miller deleted the question. Ridiculous. Protecting the brand as always. But kudos to the candidate for responding, though the response lots of words with a lot of fluff.
—
“ John, I appreciate the question. Transparency and accountability are two key ingredients to establish trust, and our convention is built on trusting the churches and entities in our shared partnership. Our convention cannot operate without a standard basis of trust. If we are to move forward in health, it will require that pastors be charitable to one another, dialogue in honesty, assume good intentions about each other, and operate off facts — not unsubstantiated claims and suspicious opinions.
It will likewise require denominational leaders to be open, honest, and transparent. Denominational leaders serve churches; churches do not serve denominational leaders. Our leaders must be willing to dialogue with its constituents, and not see such dialogue as a burden. Our trustee system works when there is honest dialogue and a desire to serve God and the messengers of the convention, not ourselves.”
John,
I, too, saw the mention of driving for Lyft while trying to raise support for the KLC. I thought it was on LinkedIn but I’m probably wrong.
John,
Re: SBCVoices, it is encouraging to see what the gentlemen wrote, but until it is supported through actions, it doesn’t mean much.
Also, I appreciate what you wrote in your longer reply to my statement. I knew BRA, both as a fellow student and after he became a professor. While I didn’t try to be his friend, this is all a surprise to me.
Yep.
SBC is done … it just hasn’t quit yet.
John,
And seven hours after replying to my question, Daniel added some more thoughts. Ready? Here it is.
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continued)… Your question, though a good one, is broad and I would want to know the specific situation in order to provide a plan of remediation. But, here are some general principles I follow:
1. There are always multiple sides to a story. We must get the facts correct before rushing to a verdict. In an attempt for an expeditious verdict, it’s possible to slander and libel someone and, once falsely accused, such person(s) never regain their reputation once it is publicly tarnished. If the accusation rises to a heightened level which creates grave harm to victim(s) or is damaging to the people of an organization or the cause of Christ, a leader should be placed on “leave” until the facts are sorted out. Facts are friends. We must get the facts right.
2. Scripture gives us a plan for confronting sin (Mt. 18:15-20). If we want God’s blessings, we must follow His methods as outlined in Scripture.
3. Where there is sin, repentance is always the goal — not cancellation. Leaders who are negligent or complicit in sin must be held accountable, but we must likewise be a community that fosters grace, redemption, and forgiveness. When we fail to offer forgiveness, we no longer are embodying the spirit of Jesus. Jesus cancels sin, not people. Leaders should be held accountable to the degree of their sin. All sin is an affront to God, but there are varying consequences to sin. Likewise, we must not be quick to restore someone to a position of power if their sin disqualifies them from a particular office in ministry. There are some sins that disqualify someone from ministry leadership (see 1 Tim 3, Titus 1). It is possible to experience/extend forgiveness of sin, and not be restored/restore someone to a position of leadership in the church. Those who have fallen into sin and repent can serve Jesus again, but it may not be in a position/office of leadership in the church.
If the sin is public in nature, a public statement detailing the steps of remediation can be helpful. Again, context is key. Our goals should be (in no particular order): 1) repentance on behalf of the Christian caught in sin; 2) care and help for the victim(s); and 3) restoring trust to those immediately affected and those watching from a distance. Wisdom is key here
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Remember this is a candidate for Pastors Conference in the SBC. I don’t like the fluff in the answers, but I do respect him for answering my question. And for providing follow up.
What if Greear and Akin have been interfering in the Ashford marriage all along? What if they consider Laura subject to them and not (even) him?
Another thing: ex seminary students, continuing seminary faculty = permanent pranksters even in public (it’s documented in the RCC too). Greear and Akin are too immature to be without a fall guy.
I know you’re not making it up. I vaguely recall seeing that as well, but can’t remember where.
Given that Bruce is a south-east Baptist and they are interlopers, he is too Baptist for them, an excuse for their long term high handed “humouring” i.e mocking. Ashford needs to realise he can set up real Baptist anywhere. It has got to be in his heart and not on a nameplate on a premises. This is not sour grapes, it is “going home by another way”, “dropping the sacrifice on the doorstep and communing with his brethren somewhere else”, “not going down into the house”.
Todd Wilhelm,
I use Lyft. If I jumped into a car I would be surprised to see a former SBC seminary provost at the wheel.
Todd, one more thing to toss out there. Have you ever asked, Why did he go from provost back to teaching?
Remember the timeline. In 2019 Ashford was on sabbatical. Could have been a professional one, or it could have been because there was a problem and they were working through it. I’ll leave that for others to decide. But 2019–sabbatical. And when the sabbatical is up the decision is made to go from provost to full-time professor. Why didn’t they just fire him in 2019? Here’s my answer: If you fire a provost, it makes the news and all sorts of questions get asked. You can only get away with one “Nelson” per lifetime. But professors come and go all the time. And so, the decision was made to get him back to “teaching” and then they cut him with no one asking questions because he wasn’t an upper administrator anymore.
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Ashford resigns as SEBTS provost, returns to teaching
By Staff
WAKE FOREST, N.C. — In an email Monday (July 6), faculty and staff of Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary were informed that Bruce Ashford had resigned as provost.
Ashford will remain with the seminary, “returning fulltime to the classroom,” according to the email, as professor of theology and culture. Keith Whitfield will serve as acting provost.
“I am thankful for Dr. Ashford’s love for SEBTS and his eight years serving in the role of provost,” SEBTS President Danny Akin said in the email. “He has served us well and I know that service will continue in the days ahead.”
Whitfield previously served as acting provost in 2019, while Ashford was on a sabbatical. Whitfield’s wife Amy is associate vice president for convention communications with the SBC Executive Committee.
https://www.baptistpress.com/resource-library/news/sbc-digest-ashford-resigns-as-sebts-provost-patricks-death-ruled-suicide/
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Of course, there was definitely a power grab with Whitfield. But given some other factors, we know something happened with Ashford.
Hey, Todd, there was a statement given to the faculty at the next faculty workshop following his departure. And Whitfield delivered it in person, nothing written down. He did not say why Ashford was gone, but he did say what the reason was NOT. And just like that some of those in the room thought, “Hmmm, is that the reason?”
John,
Thank you for that incredible information. I was not aware of the sabbatical. This makes the whole affair seem even messier.
This has happened before with the resignation of David nelson. Lots of things were not said.
Do you know if anything was ever said at The Summit where he served as elder?
dee,
I just sent Todd a message. I found the Lyft details. And I found one more treasure .
dee,
Also, his last reference to being an elder at Summit via his Twitter was Oct 9, 2015. But SEBTS was marketing him as an elder as late as March 5, 2018: https://cfc.sebts.edu/news/meet-the-wisdom-forum-speakers-bruce-ashford/.
And he and two other leaders of Summit Church (JD Greer one of them) co-authored a piece on spousal abuse in May 2018 for Christianity Today. Ashford is identified as an elder at Summit in the bios: https://www.christianitytoday.com/pastors/2018/may-web-exclusives/4-myths-about-responding-to-spousal-abuse.html. I would look for something to have shifted in that role around this time period. This is the period in question. Beginning there extending until Oct 2020.
John,
Thank you!!!
Todd Wilhelm,
Did you receive my email?
Yes, thanks.
But the only clue we have is who’s standing next to who atop Lenin’s Tomb on May Day.
Another new Privilege of Lead Pastor/High Priest Rank?