Todd here. I know Dee said there will not be a post tonight because she’s preoccupied with the minor matter of her daughter’s wedding, but I received a story a few days ago written by a former employee of The Chapel Church in Akron, OH. and figured this would be a good time to post it.
The story below is reproduced precisely as I received it with the one exception that I deleted the individuals name from the end of the story. This person was happy to have her name published, but I thought I would let her share it with you all in the comment section if she so chooses.
What follows is her story.
In 1997, I wrestled with God over His purposes/path for me. My husband and I were in the midst of our infertility journey. I felt led to put my application in at the church I had loved and attended since 1986.
I clearly remember a prayer that escaped my lips as I stood in my backyard. “Lord, please let me get pregnant or let me get a job at The Chapel.”
He answered, and I started my position as the receptionist at The Chapel on January 3, 1998. And so began my life as a part of church staff. [we never were blessed with children, but that’s another story…]
Fast forward to August 2014. By this time, after a number of other roles, I had been working in the Communications department for 8 or 9 years. I was confident in my position as the editor/proofreader of communications. I handled the Facebook page and maintained website copy, as well as the bulletins, brochures, booklets, etc. that the church produced.
When Armstrong (I will call him TA for the remainder, and will never, ever honor him with the title “pastor”) began, as the new senior pastor, it wasn’t clear what he was like. He did not mingle among staff during the day-to-day hours. He was scheduling departmental meetings with each team separately, as a “get-to know-you” type thing.
In early September of 2014, Communications dept. meeting was scheduled. We were so excited in anticipation of our time with him. At this time, the Communications dept. was made up of five staff members. The previous director had retired some months before that, so we were basically “leaderless” for quite a while. But we were a tight-knit group that worked exceedingly well together and had kept up the communications needs quite well.
At least, that was our perception. Not so, per TA. At our highly anticipated meeting, right out of the gate, he came down on us hard. Citing all the things we were doing “wrong.” He delivered this in a stern, cold manner. At first, we were all stunned into silence.
But then, I spoke up. I was respectful, and I simply tried to point out some positive things I thought we had accomplished, especially in doing it without a direct supervisor. The few things I said, he immediately shot down. And there was a moment when he glared at me. And I uncomfortably maintained eye contact and stared back.
I was the only one to speak up at that meeting. I don’t blame my fellow coworkers at the time. It was a shocking thing. I only spoke up briefly, and then shut down.
At the end of the meeting, he gave a semi-positive type of statement “I have faith that you will do better at this.” However, the damage was done.
We went back our office, and there was overall confusion, some anger, a few tears, and basically a feeling of dread.
And little did I know, I more than likely had a target on my back from then on.
_______________________________________________
Shortly after that disheartening meeting, a young guy, Josh, was hired as our communications director. I got along with him and was really trying to figure out how to navigate these new waters and keep my job. I have a friendly personality and am a very hard worker. I cared deeply about The Chapel’s ministry and wanted to continue serving at the church I loved. I thought that would be enough, and that soon TA and Josh would recognize my hard work.
I can’t possibly relate every detail in those months. There were ups and downs, I never quite felt totally secure in my job. However, I was adjusting, and felt that I was doing well.
________________________________
Then came another strange experience in early December. Because The Chapel had a break from Christmas through New Year’s every year, communications would work ahead to have three bulletins done to ensure they could be created and printed in time.
I was in my office and the thought occurred to me that I had not remembered to give a schedule ahead for upcoming Pastor’s Notes. I quickly fired off a text to TA’s assistant saying something to the effect that we would need TA’s note earlier than usual. I don’t recall exactly how I phrased it. More than likely, it was concise and to the point, with my intention to simply get that off as a reminder, to give enough time before we needed it. His assistant answered OK.
That night, around 9 or 10 pm, I got a text from his assistant saying that TA would like to see me in his office first thing the next day.
A sickening feeling swept over me but thought maybe it was nothing.
The next morning, I mentioned to Josh that TA wanted to see me and that I hoped I wasn’t “in trouble.” He looked at me quizzically and said he would go down and see TA instead. I kind of didn’t want that but thought maybe it would be best if he did.
When Josh came back, he came in my office, shut the door, sat down, and said, “We must always show the utmost respect to Pastor Tim.” I was baffled, “What?” And he repeated himself.
I responded that if this was about the text asking for the Pastor’s Note, I truly meant no disrespect whatsoever, and simply was trying to make sure I notified them in time for what we needed for the schedule. And furthermore, I didn’t send TA that message, it was to his assistant. Josh just looked at me and repeated the whole “respect” statement again.
Hence, I believe this was the final nail in my coffin.
We returned after our Christmas break. On Friday, January 9, 2015, Josh asked me to walk with him, and we went to an office, where the HR director was waiting. Now, here’s how unaware I was. As we walked in, my first thought was that they wanted to discuss a raise with me.
Instead, Josh stunned me with these words: “I’ll cut to the chase, we’re letting you go.”
Truly, I could not have been more shocked. I protested. I cried. I was angry. And neither of them could give me any definitive answer as to why.
· I was told I was on a probationary period for my new role. No one had told me that prior.
· “You’re just not a right fit for that position.”
· “We’re sorry. You just don’t have a seat on the bus.” (a concept that apparently TA was following from Jim Collins, Good to Great book.)
I was thunderstruck. I walked back to the communications office, tearful and embarrassed in front of my coworkers, grabbed my purse, and left. I called my husband from the parking lot, crying. I drove home in a mental fog.
My husband and I made an appointment to talk with Josh. He could give no clear answers as to why I was being let go. And stumbled and stuttered his way through.
I talked with Jim Mitchell, who came off caring and supportive. However, he basically dismissed the emotion of it and said, “It’s just a job.”
My husband and I even met with TA. At that meeting, we were met with mostly stony silence and cold reactions, and again given no clear understanding of why this was happening. But even then, I hugged TA as we left.
I was given three months’ severance pay. At first, I was terribly depressed and couldn’t sleep. I wrestled with what I should’ve done differently. I wrestled with the unfairness of it all. I was heartbroken to be “cast out” from a job I had loved for 17 years. A church I had been a part of since I was fresh out of college. So many milestones and memories. I struggled and prayed.
On the day my severance pay would end, April 1, 2015, I was offered a position at a new job that I have thrived in to this day. God blessed us abundantly.
TA continued to fire a number of people after me. Through the years, I often wondered why TA was still at The Chapel. Through the years, if I would see someone on staff, they would usually say something like: “you should be glad you are not there anymore.”
______________________________________
May 20, 2021 was a moment of mixed emotions. As the news filtered out that TA had fired Pastor Mike Castelli, my husband and I were confident that Mike would retain his job and this would be the beginning of the end of TA’s reign of terror.
I have known Mike for many years, I can say, fully, and without hesitation, he is a humble, loving, strong leader of his staff and church. He is a loving husband and father. That he is being subject to an investigation is a travesty as his only “crime” was standing up to TA, and is suffering out of retaliation.
TA deserved to be fired (not given the choice to resign) and should be subject to public reprimand. It seems the committee and/or trustees are coddling him. Why are the protecting him now? I wonder what type of “golden parachute” package he was given?
For the many broken lives he slashed and burned throughout these 7 years…. For the past and present members of staff he psychologically abused … oh, and also in his first year, he axed around 50 missionaries from the church’s budget. [and that’s yet another story…]
If TA had been an honorable and decent man, to stand up and repent of what he has done, I would be glad. Let’s shower grace on those who repent.
But, he has not. He continues in his arrogance.
Every congregant should be asking why this was allowed to go on for 7 years … and they should be asking for an investigation of how the budget was handled for the last 7 years. Every dollar they put in the offering plate… where did it all go, and how was it all used? How many finance directors did The Chapel go through in those 7 years? Quite a few… why did they not stay?
The Chapel must be fully transparent and release details as to the kind of man he is, also for the sake of any church he may seek employment at.
Thank you for your courage in sharing your story. I am so sorry for what happened to you at the hands of someone who was supposed to be a servant leader. I know there are so many other stories which need to be told. Will The Chapel be fully transparent with all that transpired under TA’s watch? The damage runs deep and must be fully addressed.
1
Sounds like Tim Armstrong has more in common with Attila the Hun than he does with ‘servant leadership’.
Muff Potter,
There seems to be no shortage of Attila the Hun types in Christian leadership positions.
drstevej,
A little too slow on the uptake tonight, drstevej!
Where does ‘The Chapel’ fit in theologically on the fundamentalist-evangelical spectrum ?
Thank you, Todd, for posting today, while we pray for God to bless Dee and her family.
Thank you, Editor/Proofreader of Communications, for sharing your story.
Like you, I worked on staff at a church in a professional role. I thought a prominent, popular, decent church would be a place of highest behavioral standards, as opposed to a worldly place of employment. I was wrong. So your story doesn’t surprise me, unfortunately.
God bless you for all you’ve been through working at that church. It’s wonderful that you’ve found a better place to work and thrive.
Churches are tricky. There aren’t many checks & balances in place in the USA where we have much freedom of religion. Church can be the Wild West where whoever packs the most power and is quickest to draw, wins. Sometimes, a new sheriff comes to town, and he is the problem. Often, no one knows, until they work on the inside.
About how Christians treat each other: Contrast: Natalie Hoffman and how she was treated (as a parishioner) at Piper’s Bethlehem Baptist Church. Her testimony has been public for 5+ years. Now, there are staff resigning who complain about how they were treated. Where were they when Natalie shared her experience? Did they not care? How people are treated didn’t matter until it landed in their own lap. But then, BBC teaches that empathy is sin. So, there’s that. Are we supposed to care about the staff that were not treated well, who didn’t advocate for Natalie, and who believe empathy is sin?
Anyway, I’m so glad that you, Editor/Proofreader of Communications, found a place to work where you are highly valued. God bless.
Tim, I did find this but I don’t know how accurate it may be:
https://thechapel.life/leadership-updates/
I found this on Julie Roy’s blog. https://julieroys.com/ohio-church-pastor-harsh-leadership/
Another wolf pretending to be a shepherd.
I used to wonder why my one uncle used to curse preachers so much. Examples like this explain it I suspect.
This “empathy is a sin” thing is new to me, but it seems that it’s the ones holding the power that are teaching this. Empathy would mean they’d have to stop ruling and start serving. The Bible certainly doesn’t teach rulership as the ideal form of church leadership.
“we must always show the utmost respect to TA”
Some day, perhaps every would-be church leader will be catechized that “respect-worthiness must be earned through one’s behavior and not merely ascribed on account of one’s office.”
—
Perhaps this story (and many others like it) is an illustration of one of the problems of “doing ‘church’ at scale.” In small churches, it’s harder to conceal the true character of the officers. In large churches, there are enough layers of intermediaries between the powerful and the pew that at least some of the abuse can be concealed from the people who are funding it.
I’m the former employee and this is my story.
Thank you, Todd, for giving a platform to the ones who generally get shut down and pushed out of the way.
Silence is what allows the powerful to continue to abuse others without consequence.
Vicki Caswell
Thank you, Vicki, for sharing your story. Perhaps the more these stories are shared, the less we will see of this bad behavior in churches. Churches hate negative PR, especially when it is their leadership’s bad behavior. Truth. ‘Bout time they walk the talk they preach from the pulpit on Sunday mornings. What goes on with staff is the real deal – the inside story that needs to come out, to verify or shade their Christian message.
Samuel Conner,
You are correct on all points..
And, I DO NOT buy the argument that we pew peon bloggers are bad for calling this out. The Bible is full of peons calling out the bad behavior of “leaders”…. and the consequences of bad leaders “behavior”…
Todd Wilhelm,
I was number 1 when I posted, I think the other post was awaiting approval.
Vicki-When I read you were expecting a raise, but instead got fired-I got a chill. I attended a church in Charlotte, NC that had a high control pastor. (This was about 15 years ago). The pastor kept changing his vision, based on his whims. Of course these rapid changes affected people’s lives and ministries.
One of my church friends had resigned from a high paying corporate job as he felt called to accept the pastor’s request for his assistance with the church’s (ie: the pastor’s) “vision” including a major salary cut. My friend was excellent and passionate in his position.
After 3 years, he was called to a meeting after Christmas break-like you-assuming he was getting a raise. Instead-he was told his services no longer fit the vision and was fired. It was horrible. I have since moved, but read that a year ago this “pastor” was “retired” by the elders. (Due to his controlling behavior and family favoritism).
I am so sorry this happened to you. Too many pastors have unchecked power and ruin many lives. I am sure God grieves for those who are broken by the unchecked power of the leaders whose egos destroy lives.
drstevej,
OK, your streak continues!
Anna,
Ah… you are all rubbish…
don’t you all know that we are supposed follow our “Apostolic”, “G$d appointed leaders” at all cost for the sake of “the cause”…. ( being sarcastic here)
In the last post, Max (Ithink) had a link to a “dear leader” basically saying this!
Ava Aaronson,
I have noticed a similar behavior of some “leaders” at my institution to “TA”….. you also see it with Mark Driscoll. They like to create inner circles that they only associate with, and leave the “dirty” work to those associates…. I do not know if these “big shots” think they are “to good” to associate with us “riff-raft”, or if they are afraid of being “challenged” publicly??
It seems that “true leaders” can “take the heat” and “learn” from such public situation…. sigh…
But then, I am just a pew peon, and should be in “reverence” to these “G$dly leaders”….
“also in his first year, he axed around 50 missionaries from the church’s budget”
If you handed the devil an axe, he would do the same thing … he particularly hates Gospel-preaching missionaries. Mr. Armstrong lived a dark life at TCC. Don’t give me that “But, man he sure could preach/teach” baloney! The devil knows Scripture, too!
Based on Armstrong’s ties with Tom White, Cedarville University President, I would put him in the New Calvinist camp … regardless of what the TCC members think ‘their’ theology is. Mr. Armstrong will most likely pop up somewhere within that theological corner … his NeoCal dudebros will help him find another great job.
Yes, and it’s easily spotted on Sunday mornings by the countenance of church staff who have been abused by “Pastor” through the week. In some churches, the oppression is so thick you can cut it with a knife.
Meanwhile, Julie Roys reports about another problem with Mark Driscoll. “Driscoll offers pastors whom he privately coaches something called the “Driscoll contract.” This reportedly is a contract that ensures that the lead pastor is paid a “ridiculous amount of money if fired, and basically makes it so that he cannot be fired (except for blatant adultery).”
https://julieroys.com/hinn-driscoll-sinking-teeth-local-pastors-leadership-coaching/
20John,
Sorry I made my response look like a quote from Max.
I must have lived a charmed life for 55 years. I’ve never known a pastor who wasn’t a pretty decent, regular person. Not as a child in Congregational and Presbyterian churches. (My mom was Congregational by preference, but in some parts of the country, it’s hard to find one, and Presbyterian was her second choice. She’s from Northern Ireland.)
Not as an adult as a Catholic. (And that’s its own story. “Thank God your Grandpop is in his grave!) Every parish I’ve ever attended had a decent, regular person for a priest. And we didn’t seek them out: we go to the nearest church. I don’t remember any riveting preachers, going on for an hour or more. One Presbyterian Navy chaplain, the one where I went to Confirmation class, would start almost every sermon with, “This reminds me of when I was on (this ship), and …”, which is sort of like my current Catholic pastor who starts many sermons with, “I was just reading this book, and …”.
One reasonable conclusion would be that most Christians have pretty decent people for pastors, regardless of denomination.
Oh yeah, that hits all the TULIP petals: Total depravity, Unconditional election, Limited atonement, and Perseverance of the saints. TCC definitely has a reformed statement of faith. And, as we’ve learned on various TWW reports, the NeoCal corner of Christendom has a lot of authoritarian bad-boys like Mr. Armstrong in the pulpit … bad-boys certainly aren’t limited to that theological persuasion, but they sure the heck have their share of them.
Forgot “Irresistible grace” (the “I” in TULIP) … that doctrine is embedded in the TCC core distinctives.
If anything this shows where the mans priorities are. If you care about the lost RUN.
25 Years, I was just such a missionary, my home church pulled it’s support, for reasons I was never told. Most of the rest of the missions program was gutted too, just changing priorities. Servants of Satan (NOT Stan) if you ask me.
I served in the UAE under TEAM, late 90s. Todd, I could give you an earful about how the Jebal Ail complex got started, and it makes my cry when I hear what it has become.
Cynthia W.,
Yeah, for the past decade, I have been blessed. Kind, humble and intelligent man. But then, no one would take that post for money, because they are not paid.
David Platt, President of SBC’s International Mission Board recalled 1,000 career missionaries from foreign fields, as New Calvinism swept through all SBC entities. He cited a funding shortage, but SBC found $60 million the same year to plant 1,000 new churches in North America, primarily with NeoCal church planters. As you say “just changing priorities” … but that’s probably not what God had to say about it.
Small world! I was in UAE with TEAM at Oasis Hospital in Al Ain (I think that’s correct name, been a long time) in 1986, just short-term (few months). Washed a lot of babies in the maternity area. For an American woman like me, it felt oppressive to not be able to leave the walled compound.
Agreed. What we address on TWW is a small percentage of ministers and ministries in the U.S. For every bad-boy authoritarian narcissistic counterfeit pastor in the pulpit, there are hundreds of real-deal genuine Jesus-loving men of God serving the Body of Christ. It’s sad that some congregations encounter the bad luck of the draw. “Man, he can sure preach!” has put some of these bad-boys on stage and kept them there far too long … a touch of charisma, a gift of gab, and a working knowledge of the Bible have put men in the pulpit that should have never been there.
This story made my insides clench. What a horrible human being. How can they call themselves Christians?
It reminds me so much of stuff I’ve experienced and witnessed at toxic companies (ad agencies and corporations). But it’s a thousand times more damaging when it happens at church.
And trust me, I know it happens in Catholic-World, too. That’s why there’s a saying in some quarters: “If you want to keep your faith, don’t go work at the diocesan chancery.”
Yet another point of resemblance to large corporations with top-down command-and-control management styles!
Like I quipped on a previous TWW post, never trust a guy who grins like a possum eatin’ poo.
When did that happen? When we were there gals could leave, as long as they were in twos. My wife and I lived off compound in Burami, border was three speed bumps. Now, I understand it is a proper border post.Was TEAM still running it, or had Cure int. Taken over? Did some incident happen?
readingalong,
Sorry, missed the date, yes conditions could have been that way in the 80s. We were late 90’s, and there for about 3 years. Would have gladly stayed longer. We did language school. 10 years could really make a difference, my friends now say it has several malls, one with an ice rink.
Missions is a cost center, US churches can be profit centers, plus places to employ all those seminary grads.
It is all about where your heart is.
Yes, I bet you could. The 9Marx boys have overrun the UAE now. As I recall, missionaries started that hospital in Al Ain. I think it was the first in the country.
True. However, sometimes it’s an inside story. The underlings (though highly professional) know what goes on.
TWW is all about the inside story of what goes on, IMHO.
Example, not church: Rachael Denhollander tells the inside story of USA gymnastics. The rest of us are not in the loop. But we care.
Max,
Evangelism being: Build a dynasty and they will come. The Gospel of Success.
Vicki Caswell,
”
Silence is what allows the powerful to continue to abuse others without consequence.”
++++++++++++++
hi, Vickie.
i’m real sorry for the cruel, sick & twisted way you were treated. it’s rotten, and it just sucks. May crickets of all kinds come to the bedrooms and persons of Tim Armstrong and his enablers.
yes, silence is what enabled Tim Armstrong for so long. Probably even before he came to ‘The Chapel’.
Like many other christian institutions, there was such a push for “unity”. (which of course harmed everyone except Tim and his yes-men hench-men. like young guy Josh, the communications director.)
As far as the theological reasoning behind ‘unity’, I think not – solely because it’s a recipe for abuse, corruption, and destruction, tyrrany,…and more.
in working out my theology, i draw the line where lives are harmed. that’s systematic enough.
i’ll forever marvel at how God is good and life-giving; and yet the concept of God is the most dangerous, life-taking thing on earth.
but getting back to ‘unity’, what are your thoughts?
Anna,
“One of my church friends had resigned from a high paying corporate job as he felt called to accept the pastor’s request for his assistance with the church’s (ie: the pastor’s) “vision” including a major salary cut. My friend was excellent and passionate in his position.
After 3 years, he was called to a meeting after Christmas break-like you-assuming he was getting a raise. Instead-he was told his services no longer fit the vision and was fired.”
++++++++++++++++++
what a self-serving, f*cked up imaginary world ‘some’ pastors live in. and it’s a ‘biblical’ one, of course.
Jeffrey Chalmers,
“…some “leaders” …They like to create inner circles that they only associate with, and leave the “dirty” work to those associates…”
+++++++++++++++
if ‘you’re’ a leader, i expect you to eat last, and oversee things by leaving last after you’ve taken out the trash and turned out the lights.
lead by example.
it’s hardly about power. it’s facilitating. it’s about everyone else.
Max,
“David Platt, …recalled 1,000 career missionaries from foreign fields,…cited a funding shortage,…$60 million the same year to plant 1,000 new churches in North America…”
++++++++++++++++++++
yeah, crickets to him, too.
Ava Aaronson,
Yes, that’s a good point.
There was some incident before I arrived where a Western woman had to fight off an intruder, so the security people walked me back to my apartment if it was dark. I did get out a few times (if others drove), it just wasn’t common and people were busy.
A good example for a change: Someone I know who is lifelong single and worked for her Catholic Church part-time (and enjoyed the job). She finally retired and moved to a Senior Living situation but was really depressed. Her church provided her with a computer to help her connect with others and had people available to talk when she felt she needed to.
That has been my experience in most places. Still, I don’t come out and recommend any particular tradition or denomination, because one abuser can destroy a good congregation, or stealthily harm individual children or adults.
As church participation declines, the people who attend don’t necessarily reflect their town quite as much anymore. Some churches have high concentrations of zealots and dogmatists. This might be obvious, or it might take time and close observation for new (and old) members to perceive ill health in the body of Christ. In my opinion, we all need to keep a watchful eye on our congregations.
Exactly. There is no evangelism nor mission of the Gospel-sort in New Calvinism. No preaching of the Cross of Christ for ALL people everywhere of every tribe, tongue and nation. The mission is to plant reformed theology, not Gospel churches.
Yeah, but… the New Cals are working very hard to reproduce themselves and their abhorrent theology. There’s always been abusive churches and religious groups, but our society now has a lot more ways to indoctrinate through things like social media. That’s why they focused so hard on the seminaries and on planting churches.
The up-side is that church members are starting to wise up to not wanting to be part of authoritarian churches (particularly since the pandemic). The SBC is losing numbers fast.
If the New Cals were smart and really wanted to stay around, they’d drop the most abusive rules, like not allowing people to leave and that elders can make on all your life choices. Otherwise, their movement probably won’t survive. Churches like the Summit are doing better than the heavy-handed 9 Marks churches. But it seems to me they are just doubling-down on stuff like that as they grow more desperate.
When New Calvinism conquered all SBC seminaries, the NeoCal elite were faced with what to do with all those reformed graduates hitting the street. Someone had the brilliant idea of a greatly expanded church planting program … 1,000 new churches per year, with a $60 annual pot of SBC gold to finance it! The new graduates who wouldn’t be able to find employment within mostly non-Calvinist Christendom could get in line at the new & improved SBC for church planting jobs. Thus hundreds/thousands of inexperienced NeoCals hit the street as “lead pastors.” When the 20-30 something church planters set up shop in a community, they recruited an “elder” team of same age and began planting reformed theology, not Gospel churches. Initially, most of them looked and acted like Mark Driscoll, who was the NeoCal darling at the time. Normally, I wouldn’t be opposed to more churches in North America, but …
Should read “$60 MILLION annual pot of SBC gold”
To this day, millions of mainline non-Calvinist Southern Baptists sitting in the pews haven’t realized this is happening … while they’ve been financing the rebellion for years! Most are just uninformed or misinformed, but there are many who are just willingly ignorant. As long as you don’t mess with their tradition too much (potluck dinners, summer camps to get the kids out of the house, etc.), they are OK with drifting theology and shifting ecclesiology. Doing church without God is not that foreign to them (SBC was in trouble a long time before the new reformers showed up).
Where the power flows upward in the hierarchy, likewise the resources. With unlimited power and resources flowing to the top, the top exudes vice. Power, $$$, & vice, the trifecta of evil. The reformation is nothing but evil.
Interesting that some of the leaders practice power in their churches that they don’t in their own households, because at its core, it is unhealthy. Example: Piper & his kids with his rules for thee but not for me. The hierarchal church power is not relational but manipulation, intimidation, domination with the goal of resources flowing up.
A breadwinner makes a living. These men do not. They use religion for their supply, to control those in the workforce.
Paul was a tentmaker. His lifestyle was his reformed theology, his reformation.
Friend,
Cynthia W.,
So, for over 50 years, I have been a “ official member” of 3 churches, and 2 churches a member as a youth. In addition, I attended a couple more while in college. In two of those churches, while I was there, elders removed pastor for lack of personal skills…… i.e. no sex issues, but did not “get along well” with people….
after I left, one of my youth churches removed a pastor, for what might have been “sex” issues… long tome ago, and I was out of state, so I was not around to know details…
Vicki Caswell,
Vicki, Thank you for sharing your story. Although I’m no expert on employment law (or any law), this stuck out to me:
· I was told I was on a probationary period for my new role. No one had told me that prior.
· “You’re just not a right fit for that position.”
At one point I worked for a tyrant who used similar messages to try to get rid of me. HR informed the tyrant that it was illegal for her to impose arbitrary probationary periods. “Fit” was also an issue for HR, because the tyrant kept hiring people to see if she liked them, and then finding ways to force them out after she bullied them for awhile. Hiring new employees takes a lot of effort, and getting rid of them exposes an organization.
I’m not suggesting that you try to sue your prior employer. You might, however, draw strength from knowing that some states notice the random cruelty of employers. Even as I left that miserable job, it helped me to know that the tyrant was legally in the wrong. Had I been a litigious person, I could have given that company some nightmares.
Jeffrey Chalmers,
IMHO, the pastor issues will never be resolved until all 18 gifts are in practice in community of “church”: Rom 12, 1 Cor 12, Eph 4. No one person can lead a local fellowship, no matter how many secretaries or supporting staff they have backing up that one gift of pastoring. One-gift churches are not God’s design. Nor are two-gift churches God’s design: basically Pastor + Giving Gift ($$$ supporting that pastor with his entourage).
I was reminded of this again in reading Watchman Nee’s “Spiritual Reality or Obsession”. http://hiskingdom.us/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/SpiritualRealityorObsession.pdf
Watch church employee turnover. Particularly when a new pastor takes over. Turnover not only exposes an organization, but it also exposes the leadership.
Here are some words from Jesus that Tim Armstrong, and those like him should read, memorize, and maybe even have tattooed across their chests:
Matthew 20:25-28:
But Jesus called them to Him and said, “You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their great ones exercise authority over them. It shall not be so among you. But whoever would be great among you must be your servant, and whoever would be first among you must be your slave, even as the Son of Man came not to be served but to serve, and to give His life as a ransom for many.”*
*I even quoted this in the ‘Neo-Cal approved’ ESV, just so that they know that this passage is in their Bibles also!
How did we ever get so far from this?!? 🙁
Friend,
Very good points.
I was thinking that there are a lot of good, free resources about recognizing narcissists, scam artists, and other toxic people, but people keep getting taken in. I wonder if it’s because, for all our information sources, most people don’t get much exposure to the wider world. Even big stories like Harvest Bible Chapel and Mark Driscoll are off the radar of those who don’t break into the bubble of “Evangelical News.”
Jeffrey Chalmers,
We had an Education Director at my current church who left in a huff after about a year, having gotten along with basically nobody. I suppose she would have been an “Education Pastor” (and a he) in a lot of churches, instead of a lay employee.
Of course HE would be titled “Pastor”.
The Heresy of Clericalism – the Highborn Priestly Caste.
The True Believers’ response to failure:
Double Down, smell out and burn the Witches and Goldsteinists who are to blame, AND SCREAM LOUDER.
Like the Brezhnev-era USSR: where every spreading crack in the system was met by “INCREASE POLITICAL CONSCIOUSNESS! THE PARTY IS NEVER WRONG!”
Root 66,
Great question!!!
Headless Unicorn Guy,
She would send emails with flowery Christianese verbiage asking the opinions of the long-time volunteers or other parishioners, and then, if you didn’t agree with whatever she had already decided, you would get a multi-paragraph reply explaining why your opinion was Totally Dead Wrong.
I’m a good soldier, so I continued to volunteer anyway, and I’m glad I wasn’t involved in whatever event caused her to bug out ;-).
Cynthia W.,
If the church is going to be a business, it needs to operate with lawful and healthy business practices.
A new pastor of a local mega fired the certified HR director when she was not in sync with his “business” practices. And he’s still hiring and firing arbitrarily, years later. On the website. Revolving door of actual professionals in and out according to … whatever.
I would never want to be the HR professional for a church. Nomansland. Whoever is running the place has God on their side.
Ava Aaronson,
When my church was looking for a replacement for the departed lady referenced above, I pushed for transparency at every stage. Don’t just list the opening on the website, the bulletin, and the diocesan newspaper. Announce it from the pulpit, put up posters. Make sure everyone knows what’s going on.
And that’s what happened. The staff and council (volunteers) kept the congregation informed at every step. I don’t know how the new lady will work out. She’s newly retired from a school principal job, and she hasn’t been able to recruit enough (volunteer) teachers. I was disappointed that I received an email asking if I would volunteer, after I had made it clear on a survey and on my children’s registration forms that I was not volunteering.
If I get any further requests following my, “Thank you for asking, but my other commitments this year are sufficient,” reply, I may get irritated.
Ava Aaronson,
I see the same thing happening at Big U’s, not just mine, but throughout the country…. the bandwagon is “we have function more like a business” BUT, education is NOT a business. As I kept saying, a true, hard core business focuses on the most productive aspects, and takes a meat cleaver to the “unproductive aspects”. Guess what, struggling students tend to take most of the time… so, should we just get ride of them?? We would be much more “efficient”!!
The same can be said for “The Church”. The true Church does not exist to efficiently make profits for the share holders…
Unfortunately, American leaders tend to be “in love” with successful business leaders, and “successful businesses” as the “Model”… and if you question it, you are immediately labeled a “socialist” or horrors, a “communist”.
Certainly that’s something to watch, but resignations are not a sure sign of dysfunction. In some denominations, it’s a rule that associate/assistant pastors resign when a new head pastor comes in, so that the new person can chart the course that the congregation identified during the well-designed and prayerful search process. Office staff members might decide to leave as well, if they don’t like change, or specifically a long transition.
At the church we attended some time ago, several office staff members left simultaneously. Supposedly they were let go. I have to say that the folks who left were cliquish, and treated us members as if we were interrupting their day. The replacement staff members were much more responsive.
Interesting. Bill Hybels and his Global Summit repertoire, for one, come to mind.
The business model…
The self-help model…
The 12-Step model …
The Country Club model…
Lots of ways to do church as a workaround of the Jesus model.
And grift money, draw crowds, make a splash, create rock stars. Show the world we can do it better.
A reformed Baptist preacher is sentenced for child molestation: https://julieroys.com/houston-pastor-stephen-bratton-imprisoned/
Wow. You had an HR department that actually stood up against workplace bullies. I am in awe. At the Giant Megacorp from which I retired nearly 5 years ago, HR was totally useless, completely in bed with management (including the most toxic bosses), and yes, retaliation happened, even though it wasn’t supposed to. I was explicitly told that, unless harassment, discrimination, and bullying were expressly sexual or racial, HR wasn’t interested in even hearing about it. Other people were told even worse things than that. We learned not to even *think* about going to HR.
Needless to say, this company was slammed with its share of lawsuits. Sometimes company policy would slightly shift as a result: E.g., I would no longer be told that “we make our own stress” when I pointed out that it was unreasonable to set major catalog and website deadlines on *the same day.*
Wow. You had an HR department that actually stood up against workplace bullies. I am in awe. At the Giant Megacorp from which I retired nearly 5 years ago, HR was totally useless and completely in bed with management (including the most toxic bosses). And yes, retaliation happened, even though it wasn’t supposed to. I was explicitly told that, unless harassment, discrimination, and bullying were expressly sexual or racial, HR wasn’t interested in even hearing about it. Other people were told even worse things than that. We learned not to even *think* about going to HR.
Needless to say, this company was slammed with its share of lawsuits. Sometimes company policy would slightly shift as a result: E.g., I would no longer be told that “we make our own stress” when I pointed out that it was unreasonable to set major catalog and website deadlines on *the same day.*
Absolutely true. Good point. Turnover is something to watch. There’s much more to any situation.
The Jebal Ail project was largely shepherded in place by a TEAM missionary, beginning in the late 90s. I remember seeing the plans. The “TEAM related churches” at that time had a general policy of not requiring people to renounce membership in their “Passport” home church, you had what was effectively dual membership. We are all, as foreigners going “home” sooner or later. Churches were organized along linguistic lines, which each language group being essentially self governing, and the council allocating space. I do not recall any problems, and very diverse groups got along well within a general framework that resembled the EFC in the US, plain vanilla evangelical.
I was a healthcare professional at Oasis Hospital, which TEAM ran from the early 60s till about 2015, when it transferred the hospital to another group. I was there in the late 90s. I am told I would not recognize the place. I would not recognize what is in place now, if they are operating like you describe, I was not in Dubai much on Sunday, but I was in AlAin and Abu Dhabi enough to be shocked at what happened to you). I would faint if I saw any of his books in our circles (Mennonite). I have seen CJ in action since the late 70s, (TAG) and the only one smart enough to bail on him was Che Ahn. Larry was not wise enough, and look what happened to him. (I hail from the Balto/DC area.). Where CJ goes, train wrecks follows. Gathersburg was not his first!
Sorry for duplicate post! I really thought the first one hadn’t gone through. Not that that would have been some sort of tragedy. Vanitas vanitarum! 😉
I was informed recently about a situation where an executive manager tried to get around the rules for hourly employees. Basically, it’s OK to be on call if you have ~30 minutes to call in. The hourly pay clock starts ticking at that point. But expecting people to respond within five minutes is a different story altogether. An hourly employee who is in a 24 hour rotation with a five minute response time is expected to be paid for all 24 hours because it is essentially being on the clock.
I’m told the executive manager decided they wanted a specific group of hourly employees to be on 24 hour on call. Not every day, and it would rotate, but it was still 24 hour on call with a five minute response time. But they didn’t want to *pay* for it unless there was an actual call, which is no bueno. The way the story was told to me was how one employee strongly objected to 24 hour on call without being appropriately paid (and also because they had a personal circumstance where their family life would suffer greatly). So that employee was demoted from a senior position on the team to a junior position. The employee went straight to HR and two things happened. The senior manager was smacked down and the employee was reinstated to their senior position.
I was also told that every other person in this group was OK** with this 24 hour rotation and it was only dropped because one person objected.
The moral of the story is that it’s good to have HR on your side, but don’t depend on it.
** In the sense that Lando Calrissian was OK with Darth Vader taking Chewbacca and Leia to Vader’s ship: “I am altering the deal. Pray I do not alter it further.” It’s alleged they felt like they had no choice but to agree to the 24 hour on call shift.
TA came in with a hidden power and authority agenda and made sure all staff knew it. I would love to see every person who was harmed by TA remove the stitches from the mouth and tell their story. I am a congregant harmed by him….
Vicki Caswell, I am deeply disturbed to learn of your experience at The Chapel in this new season, specifically because if I remember correctly, I am the one who hired you—or at least you reported to me for quite a few years! You were awesome to work with in every way, Vicki. My heart breaks for how your faithful service was “rewarded.” It is so hard to recover from the pain when it is caused by leaders whom you thought you could respect and trust.
Thanks for having the courage to tell your story. It sure needed to be told. Much love to you, my friend.
Sarah Bucy Klingler,
Thank you for speaking out as you have. I do hope others will come forward as well. As to transparency….. hmmm… I’m really praying they don’t give it “church spin” and simply tell the whole truth!
I’ve often wondered what the church he was at before told (or didn’t tell) The Chapel’s search committee at the time. Surely this behavior didn’t suddenly start with us.
And basically his definition of “unity” only meant that everyone 100% agreed with everything “the dictator” said.
Vicki Caswell,
Vicki – I have been heart-sick over all that has happened at The Chapel through the years. Your experience made me cry. I am so sorry for the way you were felt “lesser-than.” You are not. You are the one of the most kind and gifted people I know. You look for ways to be part of the solution and then move forward in it. You’re been faithful, my friend, in God’s direction. Love to you and Ed.
Sarah Bucy Klingler,
Yes this !!?
Jeffrey Chalmers,
It was the ONLY way he was going to be removed.
I want answers from the trustee board or hiring committee who brought TA on in the first place! Any due diligence in reaching out to his former church would’ve found plenty of people with lots to say about Tim’s leadership skills [or lack thereof]. And how did The Chapel ever think he’d be good for the job?! We were on staff there seven years ago, and you could smell his ego, authoritarian dictatorship, mean spirit, and gross love of NeoCal a mile away! It’s a darn shame he was allowed to stay in that position for ANY length of time, let alone seven years. I pray that the Body that’s left at The Chapel will begin to find healing from this nightmare.
Why is it that the majority of independent Christian church polities are dictatorships?
Muff Potter,
Anointed.
There’s a couple of lines in my book, “Legal Grounds”, where the little girl tells her honor-thy-father dad, “No”, and he answers, “God”.
Paula,
Amen, my sister! The trustees of past and present of these last 7 years need to give honest answers (no spin) and public apologies for what they knew but didn’t act on.
•Mansfield OH ~ Crossroads Church•
First to Vicki Caswell. I’m sorry you endured that abuse and grateful for your willingness to share your story. ♡
Our experience with Tim Armstrong at Crossroads Church in Mansfield in September 2001:
Everyone recalls 9/11. Many will recall Billy Graham’s remarks given at the National Cathedral in Washington, D.C., on Friday, September 14, 2001.
After listening to Billy Graham,
I was moved to call Crossroads and ask that Tim A. offer an altar call on Sunday ~ something he had never done.
To my utter dismay, that Sunday following 9/11~ he missed an opportunity to bring hope and healing to the congregation, including many new visitors. I was stunned!
The following week, I asked an assistant pastor why was that opportunity missed, why no altar call? His sheepish response, “we have a planned series to follow and we don’t deviate from it”. Really?
My response to Armstrong’s assistant, “Billy Graham would never have missed an opportunity to share the salvation message”.
Tim Armstrong’s negligence that day told me everything I needed to know about him.
That shocks me. In this area, many small churches are locked on weekdays, but every church of every size had special services and drop-in times that week. Nobody stuck with their original plan.
We belonged to a tiny congregation back then. Our pastor didn’t just toss out the plan for Sunday… she toiled to create something completely new, inviting members to provide ideas and insights. I helped plan our vigil that night, as well as the Sunday service. We agonized over the extent to which children should be included, since some knew more about 9/11 than others.
Leadership? Not so much.
Ava Aaronson,
except that the standard Twelve Steps aren’t affiliated to any denomination or organisation, and only people that want to join in, and on minimum terms
Part of the first one in the 16th century was too.
Paul and the early church had a “transformed” theology … the new reformation has little to do with transformed lives in Christ.
Bingo! And that’s more than just your humble opinion … that’s Truth.
Evidence that the Holy Spirit is not involved in the ministry of a church.
Friend,
That shocked us as well.
I can’t imagine any other pastor blatantly ignoring the impact of that horrific day.
☆ Thanks for responding.
Ava Aaronson,
Exactly! Certainly not led by the Holy Spirit!
Max,
100% correct! It was a “seeker friendly” entertainment center ~ we didn’t stay there.
In the early days of the New Calvinist movement, I attended SBC NeoCal church plants in my area to see what made them tick. We even went to one of the most popular on Easter Sunday. The young “lead pastor” continued his sermon series on Ephesians without missing a beat, without acknowledging the significance of the day, without talking about Christ at all! That experience sealed the deal to me that the NeoCal movement was not a God-thing … it was and is a cult replete with aberrant belief and practice.
Sadly, millions of American churchgoers love this sort of thing … so the beat goes on.
This seems to be an example of the profound difference between “preaching the Bible” and “preaching the Gospel.”
Yes.
Stitches being false accusations of slander, bitterness, gossip, unwholesomeness, not winsome, rebellious, not-in-your-lane, impolite, ungodly, etc.
Vicki Caswell,
Thank you for your courage and for taking a stand. I don’t know you but I respect you! I am so sorry that TAs behavior was permitted and that other on staff did not speak up (that we know of) until Mike Castelli stood up. I am praying for restoration and also for the truth to be revealed because we all deserve those answers. Bless you!
Indeed! The New Calvinists have a knack for delivering Bible exposition without preaching the Gospel. Beware of ESV-toting lead pastors who have graduated from SBC seminaries! You will never hear the Gospel preached, even though they talk about everything being gospel-centered (“gospel” to them = reformed doctrine). It’s a great deception being worked on the American church. I guarantee you that they are already camping out in your community somewhere.
I live near Elevation Church (Steven Furtick) and Christ Covenant PCA (Kevin DeYoung).
But seriously, I’ve never understood the idea of “preaching” through the Bible. I know it was done by some of the early Greek Fathers, but people didn’t have vernacular copies of Bible in their hands in those days. They might never even see a physical copy of the Scriptures in any language.
I thought one of the premises of the Reformation was that every individual could read and understand the Bible.
That was the “first” reformation. The new reformation (New Calvinism) is all about putting a man in the pulpit to interpret the Scripture for you. There is no individual “soul competency” or “priesthood of the believer” in New Calvinism. Pewsitters are unable to hear God, except through church leaders. It’s the stuff that cults are made of.
Amen, Max. But the church as a whole has gotten out of the soul saving business. Now it is all about feeling like one belongs, or some form of ego stroking of either the pew sitter or the preacher or likely both.
How long since you heard the word “sin” or the word “repentance” used? Instead we are “broken” and need “healing.”
Sounds good at first but really it negates personal responsibility. The evil doer is not guilty but rather is the first victim. And should be coddled as such.
Methinks the cords and whips are going to be used and that right soon again at the money changers!
Yes. IMO, the result of three factors that have hit the church in recent years: (1) seeker-sensitive/friendly ministries, (2) church as entertainment, and (3) the New Calvinist movement. Another gospel, which is not the Gospel at all, is now camping out in much of the American church. Jesus is seldom preached as Savior … the Cross of Christ for ALL people is not proclaimed … light and love are the prevailing message, with little of either emanating from the throne of God. Other Gods come to church these days: The Great God Entertainment, Calvinist God, Everybody Goes to Heaven God, etc.
A forgotten language in the American church. Folks won’t come to a church where there’s a God-anointed preacher who talks about their sins and need for repentance. It’s just too messy, when there’s a happy church just down the road with a cool pastor, laser light show, “praise & worship” team in tight pants, free coffee/pastries … and no convicting messages. IMO, a small percentage of churchgoers in America actually know King Jesus.
See, I really don’t think the concept of seeker-sensitive churches is bad in itself. It can just mean reaching people on their level. In missions, we called that “reaching people where they are”.
The question I like to ask (about everything) is what is at the heart? I think churches like Willow Creek, Saddleback, and Northpoint are not really as driven by the concept of a seeker-friendly message to see souls saved, but by extreme church growth in a very financially rewarding way. They are not seeker-friendly to share the gospel; they are seeker friendly because it means lots of filled seats (and by extension, high pastor salaries, fame, TV contracts, etc etc).
As I’ve said before, if Northpoint was really all about saving people, they’d have churches in all different areas of GA. But they only plant churches in the most affluent areas. Their model is not centered on being seeker-sensitive, it’s on the financial gain the church can make by having a lot of affluent members.
Well, I hope that concept worked better where you are than in my neck of the woods. The seeker-sensitive outlet here leaves people where they are! Bill Hybels, before his fall, shared with Christianity Today that he regretted not leading people to read the Word themselves and develop their own faith without depending on him. Of course, as we’ve learned, he wasn’t too deep either.
Yes, at the heart of many seeker-friendly ministries is a scheme which is all about taking care of church leaders. They are friendly to the seekers in order to pick their pockets. There’s very little that resembles a true Gospel outreach to seekers … but a lot about reaching into their wallets. However, it’s worked over the years to pack the house, so looks good on the surface. Hybels was able to build a large network of Willow Creek churches, Warren built an empire at Saddleback, Schuler built a glass cathedral to strut around in, etc., etc.
It understandable that some really want to be in that position.
As Christians, the Holy Spirit is to be our teacher. Forfeiting His role for the words of a mere man has led many churchgoers down the wrong road. No doubt, the Body of Christ needs pastors and teachers. The real ones are gifts from God … but not all of them. The only way you can discern error from mistruth is to spend time in Scripture yourself, allowing the Holy Spirit to teach you Truth … then the radar comes on and the red flags go up when a pulpiteer is abusing God’s Word. Without the plumbline of Truth in your own life, it’s impossible to detect deception when it walks on stage. Millions of churchgoers have fallen for charlatans.
Max,
Well said.
Lots of folks are not motivated by fear or coddling. The sin/repentance preaching tends to be based on threats. The broken/healing model is at least not cruel, but it might not inspire needed change.
To me, the best sermons provoke thoughtful reflection and change from the inside. Most people don’t have tons of spectacular sin in their lives. It’s the mundane stuff: failing to love a stepchild, repeatedly losing one’s temper at a spouse, hurting the feelings of a grieving friend, breaking a commitment to save up for a safer place to live. All of those things are sins worthy of repentance. But a preacher won’t inspire change by screaming about demons, or offering a rock concert.
It’s much more effective, as ishy says, to meet people where they are. Then don’t leave them there. Encourage them along the path, for their sakes and for the sakes of all whose lives they touch.
I guess it’s just been poor leadership at the seeker-friendly (Willow Creek model) churches in my area which has left a bad taste in my mouth. I can introduce you to many folks who gave them a try for a season, dropped out, and live like hell. The man, method and message just didn’t work for them … didn’t inspire the needed change. As I noted to Ishy, I hope it was different where she lived.
Max,
Yes, Max, I think this is regional. I live in a metropolitan area with a tremendous array of churches. Some are oppressive, some are money grubbing, and many are quietly doing God’s work.
I’ve run into a few people who tried church and then lived like hell. Some people are impulsive, or they thrive on conflict, or they like tribal aggression. The best church in the world would be hopelessly tedious to them… all of that cooking for the homeless shelter, opening the doors for AA, making sure every pew (pews!) has some hymnals (hymnals!), mowing the churchyard, teaching Sunday school…
The man was/is Jesus.
The method is Love God with all your heart, soul, mind, & strength, Love your neighbor as yourself.
The message is live that.
Doesn’t charge a fee; doesn’t pay dividends; it’s not entertaining; it’s not cool; not a flashy good look; unpopular; won’t draw a crowd; simple to the sophisticated; elevated to the simple.
Ava Aaronson,
AMEN and AMEN!!
From my 70+ years of doing church in America, I have observed only a small percentage of members in any congregation actively engaged in such ministry.
Max,
Yes, that’s certainly true, but good-hearted people will show up for things and help out a couple of times a year. When I had hospitality responsibilities at our large church, the list of volunteers had about 150 names. It meant a lot to people to show up with plates of cookies and pass them around at coffee hour. I believe that this strengthened the community and gave the hosts something to reflect on.
It’s a dirty shame that so many churches are full of good-hearted people who have bad-hearted church leaders. There will be a payday someday for these bad-boys who use and abuse good folks.
Raswhiting,
I think the church members should be made aware what TA was given.We have the rite to know.
TA is going to face God someday and be accountable.
I pray our church will recover from all this.
It sounds like Tim Armstrong and Ed Holland of Akron Baptist Temple were cohorts in crime. The events she describes with TA almost mirror the events with Ed Holland. Many, many hurt and discarded Christians abused under their so called “ministry”. As Evangelist B.R. Lakin
used to preach, “Pay Day Someday”.
As a music director for 17 1/2 years at a mega church in Northeastern Ohio, I experienced the same type treatment from the last pastor of the church. The church now stands empty where once there was a thriving membership. It is so hurtful to go through this knowing that most congregants will look at you as being disgruntled, and the cause of the problem. Who could believe that the problem is really the pastor? I feel for this staff member. I know the hurt, disillusionment and agony she experienced. I am so thankful that it didn’t end in abandonment of church and that she is now in a much better employment.
Agreed. Sounds like he is going to be launching a new ministry soon. With severance money from TCC? If so, that money would have come out of the pockets of TCC church members, who have a right to know what he walked away with. This is the problem when a church operates like a business. It’s just all so messy.
Ava Aaronson,
Thank you for sharing your story. I was one of the many Crossroads employees that TA bullied and fired. Ten years of dedicated service at a job I loved dearly, ended out of nowhere. I was treated like an outcast, shunned and shamed. That feeling of shame still follows me and I haven’t been back to church since.
I witnessed the aftermath of other employees being let go. Each time he’d delight in “roasting” them at the next staff meeting. I cringe thinking about the things that were said about me.
I hope he doesn’t get the chance to do this to anyone else.
Still Healing,
please come back to Crossroads !! It is a TOTALLY different environment now!
Big D !