The Eagle Nebula and another view of the *Pillars of Creation.* NASA
“I think one of the coolest things you can do is disappear for a while because it gives you the chance to re-emerge. To sort of pounce out of the jungle. Josh Homme
My mother came home from the hospital last night. My daughter, as well as others, arrive tomorrow. Lord willing, my mom will be able to come to the wedding. Duke has clamped down on the mask mandates which will affect the wedding at Duke Chapel. I told my daughter that she will laugh about the masks with her kids (I’m planning ahead) in the future. I will try to get a picture of her in her wedding gown for the blog. She doesn’t like her pictures to be posted but maybe she will allow me to take one of her with the mask on!!
Thanks to Todd who provided some of the information in this post.
From time to time, we receive queries from readers who asked us to figure out what happened to a well-known Christian leader. Today, we are looking for Dr.Bruce Ashley Ashford. Dr. Ashford is very well known and appears to have been liked by many of the students at SEBTS.
Here is part of his bio from BruceAshford.net.
I knew that American Christians needed to find ways to witness to Christ not only in private via interpersonal conversations but also in public via education, politics, art, and entertainment. I knew that I wanted to spend the rest of my life motivating and equipping Christians to be public witnesses. I sensed that the best way for me to do that was through higher education.
So I enrolled in a Ph.D. program in Theological Studies. In 2003, I completed the Ph.D., defending my dissertation on a philosopher named Ludwig Wittgenstein. I was hired to teach philosophy and History of Ideas for the undergraduate program at Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary (SEBTS). Today, I remain at SEBTS as Provost and Professor of Theology & Culture.
Except, he hasn’t remained Provost as far as I can tell.
Ashford resigned from his position at SEBTS as Provost in June of 2020.
He remained a professor of theology and culture.
According to the Biblical Recorder:
In an email July 6, faculty and staff of Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary (SEBTS) were informed that Bruce Ashford had resigned as provost.
Ashford will remain with the seminary, “returning fulltime to the classroom,” according to the email, as professor of theology and culture. Keith Whitfield, SEBTS dean of graduate studies, will serve as acting provost.
“I am thankful for Dr. Ashford’s love for SEBTS and his eight years serving in the role of provost,” SEBTS President Danny Akin said in the email. “He has served us well and I know that service will continue in the days ahead.”
Shortly thereafter, Ashford appears to have left his teaching position sometime during the Fall semester at SEBTS.
The following is a student comment taken from Rate My Professors.
Today I called SEBTS, I asked if Dr. Bruce Ashford was still on faculty at the school. The operator claimed she had never heard of him and transferred me to the Provost’s office. I left a message and they have not returned my call.
Here is a link to the academic faculty at SEBTS. Ashford is not listed. Here is a link to the visiting faculty. Ashford is not listed.
The Summit Church (JD Grear)
We believe that Ashford and Greear attended Campbell at the same time and started a Bible study. We have been told by those who know them that they are/were very close friends. We know that Ashford attended Greear’s church and even served as an elder. Here is an article posted by Greear in which he claims that Ashford was a Directional elder at The Summit in 2011.
We often get questions about our views on baptism and why it is a requirement for membership at the Summit Church. In particular, we are often asked why this is required for individuals who were previously baptized as infants. Below is an excerpt from the response of one of our directional elders, Bruce Ashford, to this question.
Here is a link to the directional elders at The Summit. Ashford is no longer listed but it is possible he stepped down to spend more time with his family.
In 2018, he called himself a pastor in this tweet. I would assume he meant The Summit. Again, his name cannot be found on the Summit website at this time. Maybe I’m looking in the wrong place?
He is a sought-after speaker.
Here is a talk he gave at Cedarville University.
He has written for The Gospel Coalition.
Here is what appears to be an updated bio.
(Bruce Ashford) is senior fellow in Public Theology at the Kirby Laing Centre for Public Theology (Cambridge, U.K.). He is a columnist for national media outlets and the author of nine books, including Letters to an American Christian (B&H), The Gospel of Our King (Baker), and The Doctrine of Creation (IVP).
He is a fellow at the Kirby Long Center for Public Theology (in Cambridge but not a part of the University of Cambridge. )
From what I can tell, this is not a full-time position. He appears to be still living in Wake Forest, NC. Here is his bio at the Center.
Senior Research Fellow
Bruce Riley Ashford is a professor, speaker, columnist, speech writer, and political consultant. He is a columnist for First Things Magazine and is the author or co-author of nine books, including The Doctrine of Creation (IVP, 2020), The Gospel of Our King (Baker, 2019), Letters to an American Christian (B&H, 2018), One Nation Under God: A Christian Hope for American Politics (B&H, 2015), and Every Square Inch: An Introduction to Cultural Engagement for Christians (Lexham, 2015)
Has Ashford formally resigned from SEBTS or was he “let go?” Now that is the question that someone should answer.
How many of you have ever attended a going-away party for a fellow colleague. You know the type. A subpar cake from the closest grocery chain is set up in the breakroom which hasn’t seen a good cleaning in months. Everyone is expected to roll on through to bid adieu to some person they barely knew. Most avoid the cake. I want to know if they gave Ashford a cake in a breakroom, somewhere.
I do think it is important to let people know when one of their professors, or pastors, who they care about, has resigned or has been fired. Also, there is this thing that I have noticed in some churches. It’s the little guy who gets church disciplined and it is the pastor type who seems to avoid it.
Maybe I have this all wrong. But, it is one of the goals of this blog to help our readers find answers to their questions. As for me, I really want to know if he got a cake. Others want to know why he is no longer there: at SEBTS or involved in leadership at the Summit. Does anyone have answers to the questions here?
Congrats on daughter’s wedding & mom out of hospital.
Oh, and first
Praying for a lovely wedding for your daughter & your entire family, Dee.
Chris Monroe, creator of the “Chico Bon Bon: Monkey with a Tool Belt” books that became a Netflix series, ended her hardware store day job by bringing in a cake for her employer and coworkers. The cake was decorated with the words: “I quit”.
Termination with icing on the cake.
As of now, He Never Existed.
doubleplusunperson.
Hope everyone stays healthy and happy for the wedding (and also after).
I note that there could be health reasons for him stepping down though he does seem to be still writing even if not frequently.
I note his CV has him no longer at Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary as of October 2020
https://kirbylaingcentre.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/Bruce-Riley-Ashford_CV_2021.pdf
Bruce Riley Ashford
I remember when Ashford was hired. I remember thinking that he was younger than me and that seemed weird. Akin praised him like he was going to be the next Mohler. But students really liked him as a professor, as you said. People said he was thoughtful and honest. I still was a bit wary, because I saw this pattern of hiring very young professors, pastors, and elders in the New Calvinist movement and it just didn’t seem wise to me.
I wonder if it could be a third thing, with the comment on why he resigned from Provost. What if he’s questioning New Calvinism? SEBTS has some people teaching at the undergraduate level who don’t fit in the New Calvinist movement, Karen Swallow Prior being the most obvious. But I’m guessing the Provost would be expected to uphold New Calvinist beliefs.
ishy,
Something happened with a separation or divorce, I think.
Perhaps Ashford only got a sitting ovation at SEBTS on his way out. No sustained standing applause, no accolades in an all-seminary meeting, no cake, no gold watch. Willingly or forced to pounce out of the jungle somewhere else? New Calvinist elite never go away, they re-invent and re-emerge.
ishy,
We are now receiving some disturbing information. Assume this post is “To Be Continued.”
He and I started seminary at SEBTS about the same time and were in at least one class together – he sat a lot closer to the professors than I did and often volunteered to assist them in various ways. However, I had to withdraw due to health reasons. When I returned to SEBTS a few years later, he was a professor (possibly full professor); that was a bit of a shock. My only other real memory of him was accidentally calling him Bruce (not to be disrespectful, just habit from before) in his office at the Great Commission Center and receiving an “it’s Dr. Ashford” correction.
“…maybe she will allow me to take one of her with the mask on!!”
++++++++++++++++++
a bridal covid mask! white lace? white satin? with polka dots? or maybe it’s spongebob squarepants?
Burwell Stark,
“…and receiving an “it’s Dr. Ashford” correction.”
++++++++++++
ugh
We wait with bated breath for the juicy details.
And did he insist that you bow and scrape as well?
“Also, there is this thing that I have noticed in some churches. It’s the little guy who gets church disciplined and it is the pastor type who seems to avoid it.”
Which goes back to the recent post in which Todd highlighted 1 Timothy 5:20 and what was written about rebuking before all, even the rebuke of elders and leadership. This article reminded me of SBC Executive Council President Frank Page, who disappeared from leadership after what was tersely reported initially as retirement per his daughter’s request to spend time with grandkids and then morphed into the result a “personal failing”, with reports conspicuously absent of details. And given some of the reactions, some appeared fine with that:
https://sbcvoices.com/tragic-news-concerning-frank-page/
“My heart is breaking from the news that has become public in the last few minutes that the retirement of my friend and one of my heroes in the ministry, Dr. Frank Page, is due to a “morally inappropriate relationship” according to a press release from the Executive Committee. I do not know the details, perhaps never will, and it doesn’t matter.”
It’s noteworthy how in some cases Scriptural commands are assiduously cited, yet in others, one’s personal assessment of the situation such as “it doesn’t matter” are present instead, often with a tone implying that quickly moving on is the way to go.
This particular article I just came across seems particularly emblematic of some of the reactions that can come. There’s no apparent discussion of whether the “morally inappropriate relationship” transversed other boundaries, such as a power dynamic in a church or a circle of trust, or whether other troubling aspects might’ve been involved. And given Page’s position, that should matter. Instead, there’s this:
“While I am not likely to be someone he turns to in a time like this, I would still go anywhere and do anything I could to help this man whom I love and who has ministered faithfully to me.”
The focus seems to be fixed on what “Dr. Page is going through right now – the pain, the humiliation, the sorrow, the regret”, despite the unanswered questions. And is there a word about the other(s) involved (as if one can assume that it was just a singular event involving only one other person, especially given the first retiring ‘cuz grandkids statement) and what they are going through?
It is remarkable how often the leadership as it were gets unconditional support, standing ovations, honors despite “shadow side“ and so forth in these situations, and little to nothing else. The appropriate Scriptural talk of rebuke and correction, assessing suitability of leadership from 1 Timothy 3 and Titus 1, and sober examination of whether it’s a hireling or grievous wolf situation can be conspicuous by its repeated absence. Meanwhile, as noted, we can see how many times there seems to be a different standard when it comes to those outside of the top tier.
Muff Potter,
Wow, should I expect all of you on TWW to bow to me? It took 4.5 years of hard work to get a Ph.D, then 11 years after that before I became a full “Professor”… but then I am just a pew peon, not one of the chosen ones…
PS… I am fine with Jeff…
That’s something that’s probably should happen more often in that movement, with the pressure to marry and become pastors as young as they do. Add a poor view of women and I don’t know how some New Cals stay married so long. I suspect a lot of their theology of women has to take second base to keeping their wives happy so they won’t leave them.
Sometimes people just change jobs? Or if they have issues with an organization’s leadership or values… they just leave without launching a jihad against the organization?
I am becoming a firm believer in pastoral apprenticeships. I do not mean the traditional route of youth pastor to associate pastor to senior pastor, but something akin to an understudy. Other Christian traditions (i.e., non Protestant or low-church) appear to have systems like this in place.
Jeffrey Chalmers,
“4.5 years of hard work to get a Ph.D, then 11 years after that before I became a full “Professor”… but then I am just a pew peon, not one of the chosen ones…
PS… I am fine with Jeff…”
+++++++++
seems to me the steeper the climb the less enamored with the ‘prof/doc’ is with him/herself, and the more it is an exercise in humility — any shock & awe is subsumed by the field of study itself and how little the expert him/herself really knows.
blech…titles. for the self-entitled.
Gerald,
Then why wasn’t there an announcement of his resignation like there was with his Provost thing?
🙂
Sounds like his title was more important to him than it should have been.
Jeffrey Chalmers,
I am most impressed by your title. I think getting a doctorate in sciences is far more difficult than getting one in theology. Now I dive under the table whilst I get my head cut off.
“the less enamored [scratch ‘with’] the ‘prof/doc’ is with him/herself”
++++++++++++=
sigh….
prepositions are really important.
(living with non-American english native speaker… i have stories to tell.
i should write a comic book: “CAPTAIN COMMUNICADO! Read the exciting adventures of her dangerous quest to cure her arch nemesis The Confusicator”)
JDV,
Well said.
elastigirl,
you are exactly correct…. Try teaching a class to a room full of eager, aggressive young engineering students…. they will rapidly put you in your “place”…
further, the more I learn, the more I realize the less I know and understand….
Finally, attempting to follow Christ’s teaching is as much about “practice” as it is “knowledge”… so, my degree is irrelevant to TWW discussions..
And, for the guy that is the subject of OP, it does not seem that he had much “practice” either….
I think either of those systems is preferable to just elevating someone at a young age with no experience, particularly in something that lends itself to abusive control over people like religion. But it seems to me that this young professor/pastor/elder paradigm has played a central part in the rise of New Calvinism and their rush to take control of institutions and churches. But many of those men were not sufficiently mature to handle such positions, even though they assured the quick takeover the New Calvinists wanted.
They didn’t care about the pew peons. It was about power and money and how to get it as quickly as possible. I’ve never really believed that theology is their main motivation, as much as they claim otherwise.
ishy,
Bruce was there way before Akin’s presidency. He was first hired by Paige Patterson and studied under him. He was a protégés of Paige Patterson, some might call him a disciple. He was offered a job to venture down with Paige and Dorothy to Fort Worth, but declined. The offer in Wake Forest was too good to refuse.
John,
Yes, I know. I was there. He was hired to teach undergrad my first year, when Patterson was there, and then elevated to a higher position my last year under Akin (something with the Great Commission Center, as Burwell mentioned). I was at the chapel where they announced his new position because the choir sang that morning (I hated chapel under Akin and only went when I had to). He was a student before all that.
The lines were being drawn on campus at the time of Calvinist and not-Calvinist, even before Patterson left, mainly motivated by students who transferred over from Southern. People were being planted in institutions at the time to accomplish the takeover. The New Calvinist students were rather militant and harassed anyone who didn’t join. They also harassed women on campus simply for wanting an education.
It was a big topic of discussion on who was taking each side. And a lot of students and even professors there went along with the New Calvinists because they knew it was the next big thing. It also meant that if you didn’t jump on board, you might be blackballed (and it happened to me simply because I was female, unmarried, and didn’t have the protection of a big name relative). I was only 4 hours from graduation when they refused to let me continue unless I switched to another degree and retook a bunch of classes (they had been “revitalized”).
I don’t really buy the disciple thing. If Ashford was really a die-hard disciple of Patterson’s, he would have accepted the position at Southwestern. Southwestern had a lot more opportunity to move up over larger departments. But SBTS and SEBTS were now the center training machines for New Calvinism.
ishy,
I will say, there were probably a lot of other reasons to stay in Wake Forest over Fort Worth (I visited SWBTS). Wake Forest had excellent schools, including a very solid Christian school. And it’s just nice there. You are minutes from Raleigh, but Wake Forest feels a bit like a safe, small town.
But at that time period, people were converging on it with a very intentional revitalization that clearly had been planned.
I suspect the more “Confessional Statements” and “Affirmed Statements” the less questioning allowed
https://www.sebts.edu/about/what_we_believe.aspx
Contrast for instance Union Theological Seminary
https://utsnyc.edu/about/mission-vision/
I suspect classroom discussions in the latter could get quite lively.
Their theology was nothing more than Divine Right to Justify what they were going to do anyway.
“Men of Sin” will claim any Cosmic-level Authority to justify What I Wanna.
The more Important the Title is to a guy, the more likely it is to be FAKE.
Headless Unicorn Guy,
And some guys have a problem with women with titles.
(Hear tell, some have a problem with women with muscle.)
Problems.
Ashford left in the middle of the semester of the Fall of 2020 according to his own bio. Who leaves in the middle of the semester?
Congratulations on all the good news, Dee! Praying for a smooth and happy wedding.
dee,
I can not come up with a good answer to leaving in mid semester…. even if reason for leaving is not a “moral failing”, it is not treating your students well…..
Leaving in middle of a semester……sounds like his sins were going to be found out!
Hoping for good weather so you can also take Outside pictures w/o masks!
My college roommate got married during Hurricane Gloria (? I think), and we very hastily hemmed bridesmaid dresses (sloppy, but I don’t think anyone noticed) due to messed-up travel plans.
Blessings for your very special event!
The guy who was let go by the local community college in the middle of the semester two years ago because he was teaching conspiracy theories. In a freshman writing class. However, unlike Ashford, it was in the local paper and online.
TWW readers may find this short video I just posted of interest.
https://twitter.com/ThouArtTheMan/status/1425293348848422916?s=20
The tenure-track professor at my former workplace who found out his contract was not going to be renewed because of a pattern of deception.
He sued the district and applied for the job of his own replacement. Didn’t get the job and dropped the lawsuit when he realized the meticulousness of the documentation he was facing (you’re welcome, HR).
Interesting, yes, with an excellent comment that follows:
@mhairiforrest
“The widespread abuse of children & vulnerable congregants by predatory preachers, who are protected by the SBC, is a ‘secondary issue’ according to JD Greear. It must be painful when you’re used to total control of the mic to see others being listened to on their blogs & Twitter.”
Of course, “widespread abuse of children & vulnerable congregants by predatory preachers” goes far beyond any one denom. SBC is tip of the iceberg.
Silencing & gaslighting witnesses who give testimony on these information blogs is part of the manipulation, intimidation, domination drill. “Make nice with sugar n’ spice” is how these Dear Leader boyz prefer “their” women. Silence & discipline women so the predators can run wild. Discipline that is backwards.
The guy in this vid is one of the 3 pillars keeping predators in place in using church as a hunting ground.
https://wildmustangmall.com/blog/f/3-pillars-of-predators
The guy who was let go by the local community college at the end of the semester because the nickname for his Freshman English Class was the Freshman Obscenity Class. Everyone in the community knew why he was let go. He wasn’t shy about requiring obscene lit, and students weren’t shy about the yuck of his vulgarity in a required, normally quite uneventful and boring, class.
Todd Wilhelm,
Yawn… I have been called a unbeliever, or even “worse” lukewarm, for believing the science that the earth is old, and biological systems evolve….
Such rants are sure signs one is hitting a nerve…… also, such abuse is far from a “secondary” issue..
Jeffrey J Chalmers,
It could be because he joined the Kirby-Laing Centre for Public Theology in Cambridge as a Senior Research Fellow which was registered around October 2020.
https://kirbylaingcentre.co.uk/klc-research-fellows/
Lowlandseer,
And if not teaching, then leaving “mid semester” is not an issue..
Lowlandseer,
Interestingly, there is another SEBTS faculty on their list of fellows – Walter Strickland. However, Strickland is still employed at SEBTS in both faculty and administration. Of note, a former SEBTS professor, Heath Thomas, is also listed amongst the fellows.
I am not certain the “senior fellow” role is enough to explain the mid-semester disappearance from teaching.
We talking The Pious Piper vs Muscular Women, AKA “Johnny Are You Queer?”
I don’t know and neither does anyone here, but applying Occan’s razor, I would assume it’s because Provost is a leadership position, and they don’t make transition announcements for professors not in leadership positions.
Gerald,
And it is normal for someone to leave in the middle of a semester? No explanation necessary?
Gerald,
Oh, almost forgot…it is normal for a guy to quit in the middle of a semester and not have a job waiting? That Cambridge thing is a fundraiser position.
He’s out there trying to raise money for his *senior fellowship.”
I mentioned that in the post. You do know that this is not a paid position, right? He’s out there trying to raise money ala CRU. Aso, many of those folks are gainfully employed elsewhere or have retired.
Seriously. The dude quite halfway through the semester, shortly after stepping down as Provost. I am willing to wager that something embarrassing happened and that the real story will emerge soon.I believe that the real reason for his departure is being cleaned up, not unlike another Dean a few years back.
If it is all just a normal transition, I bet the Provost’s office would have said this. This whole thing is not normal.However, it is embarrassing since he was Grear’s roomate in college.
dee,
Have you already begun to receive some additional details about what transpired? I think you mentioned something about embarrassing details on another comment. Let us know.
As in he had to skip town until the heat blew over?
John,
I no longer believe that:
1. He resigned as Provost in order to return to full-time teaching because that’s just what he wanted to do.
2. He left teaching a few months later.
3. He left in the middle of the semester because that is just normal.
4. He *took a job* which doesn’t pay anything and is excited about hitting up people to pay him for doing so.
5. They didn’t announce his resignation because he was just a lowly professor.
6. That it is a coincidence that he is no longer serving as a pastor or an elder at his BFFs church-the Summit
In my opinion, something happened.
There is something else that I have been thinking about. Lowly folks like us get church disciplined all the time for stupid things like disagreeing with a pastor’s *vision* or asking hard questions about the church budget. I have seen one too many *too big to fall* folks who skate past any sort of embarrassing church discipline process. Is it just too embarrassing to discuss it?
We are to be lights on a hill. That means we calmly and steadily accept what is before us, admit it, and deal with it. I think the SBC is having a hard time dealing with their many issues which have been hidden in the darkness, thinking that doing so will protect our image. Except, our image is supposed to reflect the image of God. Such actions don’t cut it.
Also, I don’t buy the excuse that we need to *protect* the family. I have seen this happen in a church that pretended a guy left because he was fulfilling his lifelong ambition to get a doctorate which in fact he was just a jerk who needed to go. But…the family was *protected.*
We have been made aware of a few things. However, we are waiting until we receive confirmation. If and when we do, we will post.
I think you’re right.
In the Sciences (and Mathematics), you (generic you) have to come up with real-world brass tacks and proof of concept.
By contrast, theology is based on speculative and ethereal theses which in turn are based on ancient near-east texts and traditions which can differ.
I too doff my cap to Jeffrey.
That’s interesting. In his CV, Ashford claims the following:
“Affiliations
Senior Fellow in Public Theology, The Kirby Laing Centre for Christian Ethics (2018-present).”
He did not begin making public appeals for financial support for his work with KLC until March, 2021.
https://twitter.com/ThouArtTheMan/status/1425315983770767360?s=20
Some fellowships have a residency requirement. I can’t quite imagine having a residency requirement for an unpaid senior fellow, but then again, I can’t imagine “senior fellow” as an unpaid position.
The Kirby Lang Centre is in Cambridge, UK, but appears to have no affiliation whatsoever with Cambridge University. I’m sure this benefits everyone except Cambridge University.
The website for the Kirby Lang Centre has a buzzword I have not seen before:
We also seek to foster and nurture Christian scholarship that is rooted in spirituality and practised in community, all with Christ-the-clue at its heart.
The terrible jokes are writing themselves in my head, but let’s just leave it at “9Marks, in the coffee shop, with a membership covenant.”
I’d say you have grounds to sue their a$$es off.
dee,
Thanks for the update. I appreciate how you state things.
What a disagreeable mess, but I believe that Ishy was better off elsewhere, at least in the long-run. What I have come to think (realize?) is that the school in question has become something of a diploma mill. I have no real objections to mass-educating people at the undergraduate or even the master’s level, especially if the goal is truly to prepare people for ministry. However, there should be rigorous standards when it comes to the advanced masters (Th.M.) and doctoral degrees (including the D.Min.). Full disclosure: I was accepted into one of the research-based doctorates but, paraphrasing Groucho Marx, I refuse to earn a doctorate at any school that would have me as a student.
Todd Wilhelm,
I guess he’s out of money.
Todd Wilhelm,
Hi Todd
It’s all a bit convoluted. The Kirby Laing Centre was formerly called The Kirby Laing Institute for Christian Ethics and was set up by Tyndale House in 2006 and became independent at the beginning of this year. It has been funded, partly, by grants from the Kirby Laing Foundation. (Hence it’s name) Tyndale House itself has a worldwide reputation for biblical scholarship and this is how it describes itself –
“Tyndale House is an international centre for research that specialises in the languages, history and cultural context of the Bible.
We bring together outstanding Christian researchers from around the world with the aim of promoting Bible understanding in the Church and beyond. We want to enable all those who read the Bible to understand and appreciate it more.
Scholars at Tyndale House are resourced with one of the best libraries for biblical studies in the world, staffed by highly trained professional librarians. We are intentional about creating an environment that fosters lasting relationships between academics from across the globe.
We are determined that lack of money should never prevent the best researchers from the Majority World from accessing excellent materials. Our International Scholars Programme enables us to nurture academics who couldn’t otherwise afford to study in Cambridge.”.
Former post-graduate research students include John Scott, D A Carson, Wayne Grudem, Jim Packer and John Piper
So that could account for the entry in his bio
Muff Potter,
I do not really want, nor need praise, or even respect from you all… That should come from what I say…
However, there is an interesting cultural discussion going on about what it means to be an “expert”, or at least value given to the opinion of someone more trained/educated/recognized in area more credibility than “Joe Schmo” off the street..
Right now it seems “everyone’s” opinion is equally valid, no matter what they know, or don’t know… further, your “feelings” are just as valid as any facts
And if anyone feels like doing some detective work, I came across this 2013 YouTube video entitled “Bruce Ashford – How Not to Take the Lord’s Name in Vain – Exodus 20:7” and then found a remarkably similar 8 page sermon from 2010 in the Summit Church –
– https://summitchurch.com/Content/ExternalSite/Messages/2010-07-18_Taking-The-Lords-Name-In-Vain.pdf
Probably coincidence.
This reminded me of a cartoon I saved to my phone off Twitter back in March 2020 (before I deleted my Twitter account). It is of a man sitting at a computer and turning to a woman while saying, “That’s odd: my Facebook friends who were Constitutional scholars just a month ago are now infectious disease experts…”
The thought has crossed my mind. Of course, they completely lied to me about the reasons and claimed everyone had to change, though I am fairly certain now they only did this to women to discourage them from continuing.
I also called 7-8 years later and talked to a very enthusiastic person about finishing the degree. She said she would send me a packet. It never arrived. When I called back, I got the runaround and nobody would talk to me, just as I had in the 2-3 years after they forced me out.
Once I realized everything that had gone on, not just in my own experience, but Patterson hiding rapes, Patterson stealing student files when he left, and all the background theology of New Calvinism, I didn’t want to say I graduated from there, either.
Unfortunately, I did graduate from Liberty, and I’m extremely frustrated and disappointed when anyone asks me where my college degree is from…
Our guy was “just” teaching a particular uber conspiracy theory. But this was a freshman writing class and the conspiracy theory was not on the syllabus.
But it does remind me of how awful my world history class in high school was. I got to learn about ancient astronauts and how they created the Nazca lines in Peru. Among other things. Erich von Daniken’s (STILL ALIVE at 86!) books were not required but they should have vern.
Lowlandseer,
Do you know who preached the 2010 sermon? Was it Ashford, Greear or someone else?
SEBTS is a remora fused to the JD Greear/Summit whale. JD sends hundreds of students a year, and they get scholarships, sheepskins, and denominational jobs. Whatever JD thinks about theology, plagiarism, or throwing phones into rivers to protect abusers, Danny Akin will defend.
Lowlandseer,
Thanks for the information, Lowlandseer.
Burwell Stark,
Exactly…
I have had more than one “discussion” on this concept…. uneducated people think they know as much as those of us that spend our life studying specific topics, or very related topics….. and “social media” and the internet has made it very easy for everyone to act like an expert..
Muslin, fka Dee Holmes,
Sorry, I don’t know as the pdf sermon doesn’t say who the preacher was.
It appears he definitely incorporated points and illustrations from the sermon at The Summit Church into his sermon at SEBTS.
Andrew Hopper
https://summitchurch.com/message/taking-the-lords-name-in-vain-exodus-207
Jeffrey Chalmers,
I think that there has been a breakdown in trust toward authorities of every kind. To some extent, the loss of trust is earned (as in “trust in the hierarchies of certain large christian groups”; one could argue that skepticism toward US Federal and State public health authorities might have been earned as well; loss of confidence in the public-spiritedness of business leadership might be another example of earned mistrust), and to some extent it has arisen due to other factors, such as ideological polarization.
It doesn’t bode well for our civilization, me thinks, but the problem of “distrust in expertise” may be more a symptom of deeper underlying problems than itself a cause of the problems.
Louder? More brash?
More muscle?
Bigger mic?
More popular?
Image? Attractive?
Slick? Smooth? Great with words?
Charm? Personality?
Male? White male? Successful? Monied? Star power? (demographic)
The Bible has no good words about the outward look, the prideful or haughty. Few good words about the rich & ruling classes.
It goes the other way, too. Seminary students make for cheap labor just to get a line on their resume. And they might even be having them do unpaid internships.
Friend,
“We also seek to foster and nurture Christian scholarship that is rooted in spirituality and practised in community, all with Christ-the-clue at its heart.”
+++++++++++++
…and Christ-the-Crunchy in their cereal bowls.
ishy,
They’ve loaded their Karma with bad poo-poo, and sooner or later it’s gonna come round’ and bite em’ in the a$$, you can bet on it.
The balance mechanisms of the universe get reset every time.
Hopper (chairman of the 2020-21 SBC Nominations Committee btw) describing Summit’s collaborative method of sermon preparation:
https://betweenthetimes.sebts.edu/index.php/2012/07/30/pastorally-speaking-andrew-hopper-on-team-sermon-planning-a-sure-bet-in-teaching-men-to-preach/
Greear tweet back then has Ashford and Hopper working together:
https://twitter.com/jdgreear/status/18847492094
Well spotted. Small world, even in terms of SBC chairman responsibilities?
Something is always happening within the ivory towers of New Calvinism and among the darlings of the movement. The “cover and protect” mode prevents the news from hitting the pews … revelation would hurt the movement. Conceal at all costs is part of the overall NeoCal modus operandi of stealth and deception. We read about it all the time on TWW and elsewhere.
Article on August 2020 SEBTS faculty meeting, no mention in text but in slideshow Ashford (in lavender polo shirt, images 28,29) appears to be accepting a glass plaque?
https://www.sebts.edu/news-and-events/headlines/2020/08/fa20_faculty_workshop.aspx
Jerome,
Thanks, Jerome. He stepped down from the Provost gig in June, 2020. He did not leave teaching until October, 2020. . Do you think it might have been for his Provost resignation? That resignation is one that they advertised.
Jerome,
Great catch. Thanks you.
Dee,
The photos are from a Fall Workshop on August 13, 2020. Ashford resigned from his Provost gig on July 6, 2020. Can only see the shirt sleeve of the man who presented the glass award to Ashford, but it matches other shots of Danny Akin. That would make sense.
Ashford left his teaching gig in October 2020.
There’s one other elephant in the room — the 2020 elephant. My best friend has long-haul covid, and it’s pretty debilitating. I imagine for someone who has to speak all day it would be even more so. And I dunno about SEBTS, but the Southern Baptists down here weren’t very responsible about masks. I see they are wearing masks in the photos, but the churches might not be. T
Couldn’t blame him if that were the case.
ishy,
I’m sorry your friend has long-haul covid. It’s so poorly understood. Hoping that they have skilled medical care.
I’m not sure how effective the treatments have been so far, but I agree that covid isn’t really fully understood enough.
So that brings me to my next question, but did SEBTS stay open during the pandemic? Did all of the SBC seminaries? How was COVID handled by the seminaries?
Because the two churches here stayed open all the way through and many seemed to be in the covid is a conspiracy theory camp. I think about the political conservatives more in that camp, but both churches here are New Calvinist.
ishy,
I should note, the New Cal church the next town over made quite a few political statements on their signboard, but the one I remember most was something like, “God commands us to meet when the world tells us not to”.
Of course, the Bible also says that where two or more are, there is God, and the internet didn’t exactly exist back then, so there seems like God could allow for more options, but I’ve seen a lot of stuff that said many people realized they didn’t need the church anymore during the pandemic.
Todd Wilhelm,
One quick question: If they wanted to sweep it under the rug and cover it up, wouldn’t it just be easy to get Ashford to stop teaching at the end of the semester? … let him finish his classes and then just fade out? I agree with Dee, October departure is weird!
Any mention of what classes he was teaching from Sept to October? Could be they were module classes (e.g., 6 weeks) and just ended after the shortened term? In that case he would’ve finished his last class.
Anyone called the registrar’s office to inquire?
Would Akin let him ride the semester out to not draw attention to it? Or would Akin be inclined to fire him on the spot mid semester? What did he do with Nelson?
Nobody is quite sure what happened with Dr. Nelson, but he went on to have a much better career, imho. He’s now the president of Catawba College. The issue very well could have been theological, though he said at the time he had health issues.
https://catawba.edu/news-events/news/college-news/dr-david-p-nelson-named-24th-president-catawba-college/
Dr. Nelson was one of my favorite professors, so I’m glad he seems to be doing okay.
ishy,
That’s not what happened… but that’s the story that was told.
His resignation from Provost included this:
“Ashford will remain with the seminary, “returning fulltime to the classroom,” according to the email, as professor of theology and culture.”
I don’t know if he taught module classes.
Dee did mention in the article that she called the Provost office and they have not returned her call.
I believe Ashford was terminated. He shows up next in March appealing for people to fund him for his KLC gig. It would seem to be rather foolish of Ashford to resign mid term with no other job lined up, IMO.
Todd Wilhelm,
I think you’re right.
I know some verses talk about corporate worship, but is there a verse in which “the world” tells Christians not to worship together?
Yes, the phrasing is ambiguous, but it’s too too easy for people to seize on this type of message and turn it into yet another of God’s Rules.
I’m pretty sure they were referring to the local covid mandate against gatherings over 10 people.
ishy,
Yes, but I was asking where that is in the Bible. Is there a verse that says “the world” is ordering Christians not to worship together? I don’t think so, but there are probably more proof texts than there are verses in the Bible. 😉
“It’s a mystery.”
“My heart is breaking” – for minutes on end – “and it (the “tragedy”) doesn’t matter”
Well why blab then?
The closest thing I can think of is the text in Acts 4 in which the Sanhedrin orders Peter and John to not teach in the name of Jesus. They reply “judge for yourselves whether it is better to obey God or men”
Given that there are texts, such as Hebrews 10, that command periodic assembly of believers (n.b.: for mutual encouragement to love and good deeds), I’m guessing that people who are not concerned about the public health situation could regard restrictions on assembly size to be tantamount to a command to disobey God.
I also have seen a pretty big persecution complex in some SBC churches (and of similar theology, like Grace Community). I’m not entirely sure if it’s sincere, or an attempt by leaders in itself to be a “proof text” of being more right than non-Christians. I definitely think that’s what Macarthur was claiming last year when they had those massive unmasked indoor services in violation of the local mandates.
I also think that the few verses there are about the assembly of believers are the basis of the argument, but they take them to an extreme. My former church did that before the pandemic, so it’s not new, but I do think there was a real fear that in some of these more authoritarian churches, if people didn’t show up at least once a week, they would figure out how abusive their churches really were and wouldn’t come back.
Samuel Conner,
ishy,
Thanks to you both for your further insights. Looks like there is no obvious text, just a few ideas that can be turned into another shrill us-versus-them argument.
Try convincing them that the Bible was never meant to read devoid of reason and common sense.
Excellent point. A high view of the Bible should always include those two: reason and common sense.
Todd, any emails about where he is, what he’s doing, and what happened at SEBTS?
“You attacked Reason. That’s bad theology.”
— Punch line at the end of the first Father Brown Mystery, “The Blue Cross”
Not until the COVID lockdown last year.
Then suddenly every verse was saying it.
Did we ever find any evidence of malfeasance or shenanigans, about Ashford or SEBTS, or are we still just dangling accusations based on speculation?
Hey Gatsby,
Thanks for your interest in our work. You will be happy to know that we’re still working on the story. Am I correct in thinking you may be able to help us?
Kind Regards,
Carraway
Probably not: I don’t have any first-hand knowledge of either Ashford or SEBTS. And I don’t think you’d welcome my help as an analyst, unless you want an impartial (i.e. non-advocate) legal analysis or “red-team” fact-checking. (That’s not a ding on advocates: they serve an important role. Its just not mine.) If there’s misconduct afoot I’m always keen to hear about it. Customarily, the investigation and verification of facts would come before publication of the story, at least accompanied by the inference of wrongdoing. At least, in a non-Hearst construct (ie “You provide the pictures, I’ll provide the war.”)