“You’re a coward. And you’re not a pastor, but a Pontius Pilate politician. You’re not going to be able to wash your hands from the responsibility of supporting Glynn and abandoning me and my family.”
-Keith Daukas addressing Sovereign Grace Churches leader, Rich Richardson
Keith Daukas and I have both been members of Sovereign Grace Church of Gilbert. (They changed their name to “Center Church” in January of 2020, undoubtedly in an effort to reduce the number of negative responses a potential new member would see when they Googled “Sovereign Grace.”) I believe Keith and I had a slight overlap in our time at Sovereign Grace Church of Gilbert/Center Church. I left Sovereign Grace in 2005, but more on that later. I think Keith started attending in 2004. I never knew him, though I did know his brother, Chris Daukas. Chris was an assistant pastor whom I really liked and respected. In a group of men that included Regional Director (and former apostle), Steve Shank, Senior pastor Rich Richardson, Rich’s dad, Trey Richardson, Jon Payne (son of Pete Payne, a longtime Sovereign Grace pastor and good friend of C.J. Mahaney), and Glynn McKenzie. Chris Daukas was by far the most gifted preacher, but he rarely seemed to be given an opportunity to preach. At the time I couldn’t understand why, but over time I grew wiser in the ways of Sovereign Grace. I now understand the politics involved in nearly everything that happens in the corrupt denomination.
I am very thankful that Keith Daukas has chosen to speak out regarding the spiritual abuse he suffered while an intern at Grace Community Church, a member church of the Sovereign Grace Churches denomination. To do so took courage. Most pastors that leave SGC churches, or whose church resigns from the SGC denomination, do so quietly. This is encouraged by the leadership of SGC, they call it “leaving well.” (See here and here for recent examples.) I suppose some have valid reasons for not speaking up, others are pragmatic politicians, others are cowards.
Keith’s voice is a reassuring word from the Lord to me and scores of others who have been dealt with harshly by Sovereign Grace pastors. My perceptions of what was going on at Sovereign Grace were accurate. My departure was justified.
Briefly, the last straw for me at Sovereign Grace Church of Gilbert occurred in a meeting with Glynn McKenzie. We had been attending a care group and over time the group had grown larger. The decision was made to split the group. About one dozen of us were told we would now be part of the new group. There was no input on the decision from those affected. The new care group leader was a hard-core “sin sniffer” by which I mean every meeting had a time where the leader interrogated each individual in attendance, asking them to reveal what sin or sins they were struggling with since our last meeting. Now, being born and raised in Minnesota, where we practiced social distancing since the days the Norwegians immigrated to a land that reminded them of home, having these types of conversations with a group of men and women whom I barely knew was something I didn’t do. I think I read about it in Dante’s Inferno because that was something I would only expect to encounter in hell! So I would mumble something about being the worst sinner I know and then confess to a few rolling stops and exceeding the speed limit a time or two, but God in his great mercy chose to show me grace over the past few weeks by having no law enforcement anywhere near me when I exercised such great indiscretions. I only jest. Sort of.
It appears there were many others in my new care group who must have also grown up in Minnesota because, over time, attendance started shrinking. It got to the point that our overlords decided to disband the care group. We were notified of the decision and were also told that Glynn McKenzie (whom I now refer to as the Care Group Nazi) wanted to have a private meeting with each couple. When the time came for our interrogation by Glynn, it was not pretty. My wife does not like confrontation of any kind, therefore, as I recall, she didn’t have much to say, but much to her dismay, I did. I could tell Glynn was used to running rough-shod over people and he took any questions as a direct threat to his authority. I won’t bore you with all the particulars, even though I can recall them quite specifically. Suffice it to say that the humble servant-pastor blew a gasket when I dared confront him on some issues. He screamed at me, stating that care groups were an integral part of the church and if I wasn’t going to attend I should find a different church! No joke.
We hung on for a short time, looking back I have no idea why. But I knew after that meeting we were done. I did have a short conversation with senior pastor Rich Richardson about the meeting and Glynn apologized to me soon after that. Perhaps you can imagine my surprise when I heard several years later that Glynn had become the senior pastor of Grace Community Church in Westminster, CO! Again, this had more to do with politics than qualifications. You see, Glynn was well-liked by Regional leader/former apostle Steve Shank, and that was all that mattered. Those of you who are familiar with the Sovereign Grace story may recall that Shank and Mahaney were at one time very tight. Shank put out a briefing to all the other apostles that after consulting with an attorney he advised against C.J. Mahaney attempting to blackmail Larry Tomczak by revealing his child’s indiscretions, confessed to Mahaney in a private counseling session. I find it odd that “apostles” would need the advice of an attorney on that matter, but hey, God works in mysterious ways!
Getting back to Keith’s story, I listened to all four videos he produced in one sitting. I was spellbound as he told the sordid details of his internship. Rich Richardson sent him to the church pastored (using the term loosely) by Glynn McKenzie. I am not going to go into many details, but if you have an interest in this story I encourage you to view the videos for yourself. I was stunned by the systemic lack of leadership within Sovereign Grace. I was a federal employee for 25 years and used to joke about the ineptitude of the Federal Aviation Administration, but comparing the Federal Aviation Administration to Sovereign Grace Churches makes the Federal Aviation Administration look like a cutting edge, highly successful organization.
Keith tells of how he had barely been in the job when Glynn McKenzie took a three-month sabbatical, leaving Keith as the only pastor! Then as things spiraled out of control with Glynn at the helm, he was given a total of one year off – all the while collecting his full paycheck and benefits! Then when he came back to work Glynn told the other elders that he no longer agreed with everything doctrinally that he had signed off on earlier. (The specifics were not mentioned.) Eventually, Glynn resigned and was given three months of severance pay. By my count, Glynn received 18 months’ pay over the course of 3 years for not doing squat! As I always say, if a guy has no conscience, pastoring can be quite a gig.
Keith was supposed to only be an intern for 18 months. It ended up being four years. He was working 70 hours per week and his yearly salary was $39K. Keith paid $1,600 per month for a two-bedroom, 1,000 square foot apartment, leaving them $1,400 to live off each month in Denver, where the cost of living is high. He had a wife and three boys and they were barely surviving, but the dolts in charge never considered boosting his pay. (First Glynn McKenzie and then Tony Walsh and Peter Payne.) Keith and Carrie Daukas suffered through stress resulting in physical ailments while being lied to by the pastors. Promises were broken and nobody in leadership roles in the denomination (Rich Richardson) attempted to straighten out a terrible church. Membership has plummeted from over 400 when Keith arrived to around 100 now.
The final straw for Keith occurred after Glynn McKenzie had left the church. He was about to be ordained, having passed all the tests, both written and oral, but when meeting with Pete Payne it was made clear to him that unless he started spanking his kids for not standing during worship services and forcing them to read the bible, he wouldn’t make the grade as a pastor. I can’t help but wonder if Pete Payne was intentionally attempting to get rid of Keith so he could hire his son, Josh Payne, who now appears to be a staff member.
Below is a display of some of the major players in Keith’s story. Since Keith has left it looks like Pete Payne has added his son, Josh Payne to the staff. His other son, Jon, was an assistant pastor to Rich Richardson and then was sent to plant a church in Texas. Nepotism, modeled so well by C.J. Mahaney, is alive and well in the small SGC denomination!
Below is a partial transcript from the video above.
“Rich, I want to say this to you.
I came to you in October of 2015 during a national pastor’s conference. I told you what was going on with me and Glynn and you didn’t want anything to do with it. You wanted to stay clear of it. You gave me no offer to assist, you didn’t want to step in, you kept your hands clean, you wanted to stay out of it.
Once it became politically safe for you to speak out against Glynn’s ministry, that is, once Glynn was removed from the office of pastoral ministry in the Spring of ’17 then you went to Tony… You apologized to Tony for even sending Glynn out…
You didn’t want to deal with someone who wasn’t a “yes man.” You apologized to Tony, but not to me.
I’m the one who had to clean up the mess that Glynn was making. I’m the one who had to sit down and cry with the people who were hurt by his ministry…
Thanks for taking the expedient route and playing it safe. On behalf of literally hundreds of families that experienced significant damage under Glynn’s ministry, thank you Rich, great job! You’ll have to answer to God for all this. You don’t have to answer to me, obviously. You won’t even return my calls or my emails.
One day, very soon you will have to answer to God for this…
Great job, Rich. That’s ridiculous, man, that’s ridiculous…
You’re a coward. And you’re not a pastor, but a Pontius Pilate politician. You’re not going to be able to wash your hands from the responsibility of supporting Glynn and abandoning me and my family.
It’s just double talk, it’s just the stuff I’ve come to know from you and it’s sad. You used to be a good pastor. I don’t know what happened to you, but I hope that one day God will break through your cold, calloused heart and soften you. That’s just sad.”
Trigger Alert – paragraphs from the lawsuit displayed below contain graphic descriptions of sexual abuse of a child. After I posted this Jon Payne removed the picture above from the web. Perhaps allowing John Loftness to speak in your church is not such a great benefit of a partnership with Sovereign Grace after all?
One final note – there is another group that wants to tell everyone what a benefit it is to join ranks with them. How’s that working out for you John?
1
1st?? Friends of mine have attended the Charlotte church for years and swear by it. When they visit home, where we grew up, they attend the local SG church instead of going to where all their friends and family are at the church they grew up at. I asked about some of the drama…. they will hear none of it. Nothing to see here!!’
The evil trifecta of abuse of power, abuse of money, & sexual violation seems to be systemic in this denomination.
Noted: at the SGC website are several SG churches in our area. Their websites promote welcoming, solid Christian community values and activities. Their leaders (all men, all Caucasian, with a “good look” – maybe a warning sign?) all appear to be wonderful wholesome solid family men.
Where are the red flags in their promotions? Apparently, we need to search the internet and public records (court records) to see what is going on behind the curtain in churches. Deception seems to be rampant.
Does anyone else feel the disconnect here? How does one know what one is getting into simply by “going to church” on Sunday? I feel the pain of this intern pastor. How was he to know where he would end up when he joined what seems good but turns out to be their evil network?
Thanks for this post, and putting this together, Todd.
As I watched the videos I wondered if things would have been different if Keith had been slender with a full head of hair–more of a fit for the ‘pastor-look’ now that the shaved head is passe. Keith is really spiritually tough; he hung in for much longer than someone of average spiritual toughness would have lasted. I thought Keith has a sense of mercy toward his sons that I wish the SGC leadership community had toward those entrusted to their care.
clever retooling of the Sovereign Grace Churches logo!
abstract swirls reimagined as one of those braided oval rugs of the ’70s (i remember brown & beige tones), and lots ‘0 dirt being swept under.
The Party Can Do No Wrong, Comrades.
And a year or two from now they’ll change it because the Fresh New Logo is now “Oh So Day-Before-Yesterday”.
Again, and to re-ask a super-salient question:
How do folks get sucked into these vicious maelstroms?
What’s the draw?
Do they somehow believe that it’s God pleasing to be abused?
The only thing I can think of offhand, and if it sounds simplistic, so be it:
They’re fed a constant stream of lies from the father of lies, and out of fear, they comply.
I continually ask myself that question. In my case I chalk it up to being an idiot and a slow learner! I can identify with Charlie Brown taking one more kick at the football!
But that is an interesting question which would be worthy of a doctoral thesis.
Muff Potter,
“How do folks get sucked into these vicious maelstroms?
What’s the draw?”
++++++++++++++
a soothing that comes from self-flagellation, and being flagellated by someone else? so to speak.
maybe similar motive to what spawned the sacrificial system, which seems to have taken easily all over the world — pain and loss (one’s own or vicariously on the part of another), as a tangible, concrete path to God. something you can grab onto intellectually, with traction.
Todd Wilhelm,
As someone who has been something of a misfit much of my life, the draw for me was that my Sovereign Grace Church (CLC) gave me a sense of being included in something big and important. Also, I had many helpful, solid friendships there that have lasted decades.
I attended CLC from 1985 until 2019 and I definitely have stories to tell!
BoughtTheField,
You have my respect hanging on to something of “mixed” value for that long – my record in a “church-within-a-church” was 28 years, 1986-2014.
Some people looked down at me & the likes of me for belonging to it when they had dropped out of it after 4 weeks – or had had frictions with its clergy rep from before the start.
There was carelessly agressive press towards us ordinary membership, which helped the goons keep us inside the membership (pincer movement), instead of making the outside world sound welcoming.
Indeed they were involved in sensitive things. Who knows about it now, knows about it now (they tweak their activities slightly as they go).
The whole thing is a huge “feather in my cap”. He who belly laughs laughs longest. We are God’s mystery customers, and we survive under deep cover!
Muff Potter,
People don’t often realize they are being abused while they are being abused. It’s like the case of emotional abuse in marriages. Often it takes years for the person being abused to recognize what is happening.
With these churches, I think in some cases people come from such a bad background that even a spiritually abusive church and pastor looks like an improvement, at least at first.
The Sovereign Grace model of “apostolic” leadership and claims of ongoing revelation may make it harder to spot abuse. If the leader is receiving “revelation” from God, it’s harder to question him or her.
As another misfit, that’s what I experienced decades ago although it was a “Ft. Lauderdale Five” church instead of SGM. We thought we were the elite who would change the world for God. I still have good friends from that era, but I also remember spiritual abuse. It was subtle, which made it hard to recognize and even harder to call out. Some of my old friends still won’t call it abuse, and/or they blame the gullible sheep instead of the wily shepherds.
It’s what is Normal(TM).
Don’t forget about the initial love-bombing techniques that draw people in.
Bridget,
The love-bombing goes on for sometime until one is well versed. Then when things start seeming off (abusive) there is a rejection of the reality because of the initial ‘love.’
It is exactly the same as the abusive man who entices his mark into marriage and then slowly turns into a monster. The victim doubts what is now happening because of the initial enticement.
And gas-lighting. Here is an interestong video on how to recognize and resist it:
https://youtu.be/izCo9cDc4qM
Bridget,
Good analysis, and it does account for much of the unreality that victims cling to.
Trending
Atlanta’s North Point Ministries, one of the country’s largest megachurches, said it is suspending in-person worship services for the rest of 2020 due to coronavirus concerns.
The secret SAUCE of SGC Is following its leaders not the Godhead. That is what personality cults are known for.
Ken F (aka Tweed),
Good points in the video. I would summarize the message as this: My reactions are just as valid as your assertions.
Don’t apologize for turning on the light that exposes a problem.
The presenter, Christina Zaczkowski, does a great job of showing how people cower and apologize in abusive churches or relationships.
I still have that instinct. Over time, though, I have turned it into the strategic (non-)apology that triggers the other person’s conscience, reducing the likelihood of future abuse… switching on a small light.
Me: “Hey, did you have a chance to pick up that prescription?”
Person 2: “All right, all right, I’ll get to it!”
Me (calm voice, steady eye contact, raised head): “Sorry, I didn’t mean to interrupt.”
Person 2: “I’m sorry I was rude. Yes, I’ll get it done today.”
This seems to be the common pattern.
How many times have we seen/heard this:
“They were wonderful, perfect, dream-come-true, until suddenly, their demeanor changed, their tone was different, and I was scared – for my life – sensing dangerous entrapment, no way out.”
We warn our children: don’t follow the friendly guy offering candy and a puppy. Danger.
She has a lot of good videos.
There’s also people who follow perceived power. I’ve noticed this heavily with YRR, but it’s been true of some of the people involved with SGM that I’ve known. They see people with power and they want the same for themselves, and they play games to try and get themselves in that circle.
In evangelical circles, the types that are attracted to power and want the same for themselves tend to be men. If anything, it’s for the simple fact that those are the ones that hold the power in those kinds of churches. I have seen this in a few women, but it’s turned out badly for them every time. The powerful men in these circles will never consider a woman their equal, and they treat women accordingly. But they do see other select men as their equals.
Some of these men I’ve known definitely use tactics like love bombing to bring new people into the church. They often hide things like the punishments for questioning or trying to leave. And they tend to be fairly charismatic, so new members don’t know that the moment they start to question is when those leaders will turn on them.
I know a couple people fairly well who were badly damaged at SGM churches, one of whom has never recovered and continues to inflict damage on others even many years after they left. Another family was pretty much stalked for years after leaving for a new job, because the church did not give them permission to leave and told them to find a nearby job instead and continue at the church. They had no idea the church would turn on them until after they had left (I’m guessing they thought it was fine to move and not inform the church ahead of time because that’s true for most churches).
ishy,
OMGoodness, THANK YOU! My therapy at TWW continues and you, ishy, providing my session for today. With no invoice. God bless you!
(Sidenote: I am supportive of professional counselors that charge for their professional services, while being thankful for the TWW community. Both. Essential.)
I’m glad it was useful! I didn’t really intend for it to be metaphysical, but I’ve just seen so much horrible damage by these churches to good people who didn’t know what they were getting into.
Unfortunately, I went to school with a lot of power-hungry types, and they weren’t shy about talking about how desperate they are for power before they track in with the right crowd and learn how to hide their true motivations. It’s really disturbing how many were like that at Liberty and at SBC seminary. My plan was to leave the country and not come back, though that never worked out, but it left me pretty disgusted with evangelical churches and pastors.
I’m actually still dealing with a lot of that trauma in counseling. My therapist isn’t well-versed in spiritual trauma, but I couldn’t find someone who was. I didn’t even come up against what others do, just witnessed it, and it still left me with trauma that makes me want to run away every time I go to church now.
No idiocy required. Humans are social animals and we congregate with people we perceive to be like minded.
Key word is perceive. It doesn’t mean you are like them.
Sometimes that’s how a cult like group hooks someone. On the surface it looks great.
People who come out of the other side of these experiences are not defective or foolish. They are human.
Anyone can be a mark. No one is immune.
I think in most cases they are normal people who think they’ve found other like minded people. Some of these churches are huge. Most people want to do the right thing. The right thing can be co opted into something horribly wrong. It’s religions double edged sword. Call it the high cost of a culture of compliance.
… differentiating wisely between compliance with God & compliance with a person.
As a young Christian, eager to please [God], it was easy to be derailed in seeking God – but ending up on a wild goose chase, completely off path.
Speaking of dysfunctional leadership, check out Tim Challies’ latest blog:
https://www.challies.com/articles/respectable-sins-of-the-reformed-world/
When discerning people in the pews call out the very real problems in the New Calvinist movement they get accused of one or all of the items on Challies’ list. His list could not be better designed to shut down pew-peons.
Only other Highborn Alpha Males.
Give me your money and then mind your own business – hold your tongue! (Assuming he is still accepting & supporting his lifestyle via their donations.)
i.e.
“RULERS OF TOMORROW! MASTER RACE!”
— Ralph Bakshi, Wizards
SGM is very weird in that they go for the opposite, in my experience. They are somewhat anti-education by anybody outside their group. I think Mahaney only has a high school education. I was pretty surprised when Mohler sort of adopted him, because I doubted Mohler would support avoiding seminary for pastors,
Ken F (aka Tweed),
Well that was a surprise.
How come pelvic sins (as HUG would say) didn’t make it to the top of Challies’ list?
Oldster,
I was also in a “Fort Lauderdale Five” church which disbanded before I joined CLC.
Wise words that bear repeating. Also your comment that follows.
Reference the link to Challies’ latest blog article, it’s simply MOTS from Challies. I have noticed recently a concerted effort on behalf of the gospelly boys club to once again attempt to silence the “discernment bloggers.” The flak gets heavier as you draw closer to the target!
Just for grins, I checked out the list of books he has authored and noticed Challies had neglected to list one of his classics from 2012 titled “Modest: Men and Women Clothed in the Gospel.” Challies co-authored it with R.W. Glenn, a man of whom Challies said “we came to see that we had a lot in common.”
https://www.evernote.com/l/AW4Ty_d3qfdBM7sEubOT9XORCn8hxQJ3bSU
Search this blog for an article on R.W. Glenn to see why the book is likely not listed by the Evangelical Industrial Complex’s voice of conscience.
Todd Wilhelm,
I watched the Keith Daukas video you posted to your YouTube and this part one minute into the video got my attention:
“This lady in the church in Gilbert sends out an email to all the women for women’s ministry and says hey um basically saying like i want you to teach you that like when you write things in your journal those words become God’s words and i was like huh.”
And so was I. HUH.
I honestly thought Sovereign Grace had pretty much left behind its Charismatic roots (and yeah, this is 8-9 years ago), but this sounded *weird* for a church that is all Biblical and in with the Calvinistas. What did you think when you heard that?
https://www.gotothissite.org/rw-glenn
Modest? Not. Pastoral? Not. Moral? Not.
You know what I’m talking about, then. I see a lot of similarities between the two movements (SGM and “The Five”) and I know they shared some close ties in the beginning.
Jack,
Good point. We should never underestimate an “ends justify the means philosophy.” Some people will overlook a lot of bad stuff as long as “good is being done.”
Never mind all those KZs, The Fuehrer gave us Full Employment and the Autobahn!
i.e. Disloyal Traitors and Thought-Criminals.
Just like Automatic Writing and Channeling, Except CHRISTIAN(TM)!
Both Thomas Edison and Henry Ford were “self-made men” with little formal education who HATED anyone with more Book Larnin’ than themselves. Could this dynamic be at work?
Ken F (aka Tweed),
It’s sad to see how many gaslighting pastors/leaders are in the Church.
Jack,
“The right thing can be co opted into something horribly wrong. It’s religions double edged sword. Call it the high cost of a culture of compliance.”
++++++++++
maybe it’s like too much of a good thing is a bad thing.
i think just about any healthy food can become an unhealthy thing if one goes overboard. if nothing else, it would take the place of other foods and you wouldn’t get all the nutrients you need.
too much of your favorite person in the world is a bad thing.
too much of your favorite music, book(s), films & tv, even vacation spots become bad things.
too much christianity is a bad thing. too much bible is a bad thing. too much church is a bad thing.
among other ways to illustrate what too much christianity looks like, what i especially envision is too much prescription.
i think it comes from a need for absolutes, for black & white, for the concrete. and discomfort if not panic tremors that set in with gray issues.
the only way abstract things are tolerated is if they are thrown into the mix for concrete rules for other things. (like the abstract concept of the trinity builds the ESS doctrine and the very concrete male headship)
it stems from a need for answers to everything. a need for control. a need to control others.
and making faith a business, a money-making enterprise and pathway to power.
it’s hard to build a business on “i don’t know”, and “it’s not conclusive”.
it’s very hard to create professional christian jobs let alone fill the job descriptions of the existing hundreds of professional christian careers without making things up.
i’d say Jesus of Nazareth and his golden rule make this nigh unto impossible. (without having to start making things up)
.
.
…just babbling along, here
Headless Unicorn Guy,
Calvary Chapel “association” or what ever they want to call themselves, has examples of being negative for “cemetery”.. and higher ed as well..
Bridget,
More than sad, it is “disgusting”…
elastigirl,
“(like the abstract concept of the trinity builds the ESS doctrine and the very concrete male headship)”
++++++++++++
well, they thought male headship would be concrete. they thought they were setting it in stone. and erecting an
idolcommemorating statue to glare down on everyone.little did they realize what a naughty shapeshifter it would end up being!
talk about inconclusive.
elastigirl,
“naughty shapeshifter”
+++++++++++
i’m they’re especially irritated that it often looks quite egalitarian.
Jeff Chalmers,
For those of you not familiar…. some preachers/full time Christian @workers” make the snide comment of calling “seminary” “chemistry”
Have you seen that Matthew Paul Turner has announced he is gay? And getting divorced after 17 years of marriage? Three children, live in Nashville
I know three couples who have gone through this painful process—all parents, all active in their churches. Fortunately none of them was a public figure, so they had the luxury of privacy.
Yet another example of why “Grace” in a church’s official name is equivalent to “People’s Democratic” in the name of a Third World country.
“The more adjectives about Democracy in a country’s official name, the nastier a Dictatorship it is.”
Tell me about it.
I’ve lived in the same metro area as Calvary Chapel’s Ground Zero for decades; Calvary Chapel DOMINATED local Christian AM radio for decades. Remember the joke about “Non-denominational = Baptist with the labels painted over”? In my area, “Non-denominational (or CHRISTIAN without any modifiers) = Calvary Chapel clone with the labels switched”.
Muff can back me up on this one.
I know this book has been mentioned elsewhere on this site, but I want to highly recommend “Jesus and John Wayne: How White Evangelicals Corrupted a Faith and Fractured a Nation” by Kristin Kobes Du Mez. It has a whole chapter on Sovereign Grace and abuse scandals at other churches and evangelical institutions, many of which have been covered by this site, and the author does a terrific job tracing how we got to this point.