It seems that bad advice that’s fun will always be better known than good advice that’s dull-no matter how useless that fun advice is. –Scott Berkun
Special thanks to Todd who did some background work on this post even though it was 122F in Phoenix yesterday.
On Monday I wrote Steve Gaines and Bellevue Baptist Church Are Getting Sued: I Want to Hear Less About Them and More About Showing Compassion for the Teen Victim. At the time, I had a copy of the lawsuit which was filed by the Doe family.
The Doe family sued BBC on behalf of Janet Doe, a 15-year-old teen who was molested by James Ashley Hook. Jane Doe, Janet’s mother, had an affair with James Hook, who was also married. This affair resulted in a child. However, the church encouraged both couples to undergo *Biblical* counseling. It is simply amazing what one can learn when reading through a lawsuit. For your convenience, you will find the entire lawsuit filed by the Doe Family at the end of this post along with a direct link to the response of Belleview Baptist Church.
Eric Brand and his bizarre ministry
Eric Brand, a BBC pastor, became the *Biblical* counselor to the Hooks and the Does. But, who exactly is he? Brand was allegedly a long time Christian leader at BBC. Some folks think he had been around since the time of Adrian Rogers who retired from in 2005. Brand is not listed on the website at this time. I wonder why…
This is odd since it appears he often gave sermons on Sunday evening as evidenced by my Google search. However, all such sermons have disappeared from the website. I have heard from several sources that they began disappearing about the time the lawsuit was filed.
The accusations against Eric Brand by the Doe family.
Please refer specifically to items 21-24 in the lawsuit against Bellevue Baptist Church, hereafter called BBC. Here is a screenshot. Be prepared.
Let’s go through the allegations one by one.
- According to the Does, Eric Brand suggested that both couples go through counseling with him.
- It appears that this may have also been the idea of James Hook which is discussed in #21 of BBC’s response.
- Both couples agreed to go through counseling with *Pastor* Eric Brand. In the BBC response, they also utilize the title of Pastor Eric Brand. Was he an actual pastor? If so, where/ when did he get ordained?
- Brand apparently told both couples that God hates divorce. The Does would eventually divorce a number of years later.
- BBC admits in their response that Pastor Brand counseled both couples. They utilize the title of *Pastor* in regards to Brand in their response.
- BBC claims that any fact other than Pastor Brand counseled the Does and Hooks needs to be removed because these averments were ” offensive, scurrilous, irrelevant, immaterial and inadmissible” and said such statements “unfairly prejudice and defame Bellevue Baptist Church.” (Uh oh, what’s coming???) Pastor Eric Brand “shared sexually explicit photos of his wife (Brand’s wife) and encouraged the women to do what his wife did to keep their husbands interested in order to maintain their marriages. Jane Does was uncomfortable receiving these photos.” Mr. Doe asked Brand to stop showing those photos to his wife. Brand said he showed the photos for ministry!!!! (#23)
- Remember, these photos involved Brand’s wife in sexual situations. I wonder if she knew about this?
- To make matters worse, it is alleged in the Doie’s lawsuit that Pastor Brand showed these photos to other women in the church *for ministry!!!!!*
- As you will note in BBC’s response, they apparently believe that the only reason it was put in the lawsuit was to defame and to cause prejudice against BBC.
- The Doe’s claim that these actions by Brand show that inappropriate actions were allowed to exist at BBC.(#24)
- Of course, BBC denies that Brand’s actions were condoned by BBC and that the only reason it is mentioned is to unfairly prejudice and defame BBC.
I believe that it is abusive for a pastor to show sexually-oriented pictures of his wife to those he is counseling.
These poor folks were trapped in a room, supposedly getting counseling to save their marriage. Then, Pastor Brand whips out sexually explicit, inappropriate pictures of his wife. How is this not abusive? How does it have anything to do with counseling? How could this even be considered *ministry?* In my opinion, showing such pictures in this situation, is abusive and bizarre. Did I remember to say *abusive?*
Did Steve Gaines, former SBC President, tell the huge church membership what Brand was doing?
It appears that someone reported Brand’s unique take on Biblical counseling to *whoever was in charge.* My guess he was canned on the spot. However, after doing extensive reading, I cannot find that this was ever announced to the church. Given Gaines’ history with Paul Williams, this response would not be unexpected. Gaines appears to like to play things close to the (his) vest. If anyone could give me proof that Gaines told the members of the church, I would be willing to post it and correct my thoughts on the matter. I suspect he told people who may have reported it to him to keep it on the down-low.
How big is BBC and why does that matter?
I keep hearing all about membership in the range of 25,000-30,000. I guess they live too close to the beach because according to The Commercial Appeal, only about 8,000 actually attend. I would imagine they had a few drop out if they went to Brand and he played his “Let me show you pictures of my ministry game.” Or would that increase attendance…who knows?
The reason I bring up the size is important. I contend that most megachurches are not able to keep tabs on what is really going on in their ministry, especially during the weekend worship services. It is entirely possible that Hook was hanging around Janet Doe and no one paid any attention despite the father’s request that Hook should not be around his daughter in church. I believe that the numbers are so great and so many underage kids are coming and going. The church has two campuses and 5 services. Click on the ministry section of the website and see the large number of offerings. So many people…
If other women or couples would like to tell me about their encounters with Pastor Eric Brand, please contact me.
I adhere to strict confidentiality. I believe that there are others who have had some run-ins with Brand. This sort of behavior indicates a form of paraphilia which is next to impossible to overcome without long-term professional counseling. In other words, even in the best of circumstances, it is a struggle. If the information in the lawsuit is proven true, Brand might be a predator. If he was at the church for decades, it is possible that there are many. many recipients of his *ministry.* I also worry about his wife.
For years, predators have been able to get away with this behavior. Times have changed. If you are a victim, let me know how I can help, even if you just want to talk.
I have one more bone to pick with BBC and that is the fact that some church members went to the trial to plead for leniency for Hook. This is despicable and it most certainly is not a Scriptural response. I will try to write about this next week.
Bellevue Baptist Complaint … by Todd Wilhelm on Scribd
Bellevue’s answer to the lawsuit.
https://wreg.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/18/2020/07/20200603-FILED-Answer-of-Bellevue-Baptist-Church.pdf The following is a copy of sections 21-24:
21. For response to the first sentence of ¶ 21 of the Complaint, Defendant admits, upon information and belief, that Jane Doe and James Hook had an extramarital affair in 2011. For response to the second sentence of ¶ 21 of the Complaint, Defendant is without sufficientknowledge or information to form a belief as to the truth of the averment that James Hook suggested that the couples be counseled by Bellevue Pastor Eric Brand. Defendant further moves that the offensive, scurrilous, irrelevant, immaterial and inadmissible averments contained in the second sentence of ¶ 21 be stricken from the Complaint because the sole purpose of these averments is to unfairly prejudice and defame Bellevue Baptist Church.
22. For response to ¶ 22 of the Complaint, Defendant admits, upon information and belief, that the Does were counseled by Eric Brand. Defendant is without sufficient knowledge or information to form a belief as to the truth of the remaining averments of ¶ 22 of the Complaint. Defendant further moves that the offensive, scurrilous, irrelevant, immaterial and inadmissible averments contained in ¶ 22 be stricken from the Complaint because the sole purpose of these averments is to unfairly prejudice and defame Bellevue Baptist Church.
23. Defendant is without sufficient knowledge or information to form a belief as to the truth of the averments of ¶ 23 of the Complaint. Defendant further moves that the offensive, scurrilous, irrelevant, immaterial and inadmissible averments contained in ¶ 23 be stricken from the Complaint because the sole purpose of these averments is to unfairly prejudice and defame Bellevue Baptist Church.
24. For response to ¶ 24 of the Complaint, Defendant denies that Bellevue Baptist Church condoned inappropriate behavior of the alleged actions of Eric Brand and specifically and categorically denies the any action of Eric Brand reflects the environment at Bellevue Baptist Church. Defendant further moves that the offensive, scurrilous, irrelevant, immaterial and inadmissible averments contained in ¶ 24 be stricken from the Complaint because the sole purpose of these averments is to unfairly prejudice and defame Bellevue Baptist Church.
Too much sadness and pain in the world.
2
In terms of the response, it might not be surprising if past is prologue:
Their Wiki entry includes this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bellevue_Baptist_Church
“In September 2006, The Commercial Appeal, Memphis’ predominant newspaper, reported that recent changes at Bellevue have led to protests by some members.[22] A website contains allegations by some church members that the church is, under the leadership of Gaines, moving toward becoming part of the “church growth movement”, moving toward an elder-led (as opposed to congregation-led) form of governance, mismanaging its finances, paying its leadership too much, intimidating members that want the church’s leadership to be more open, and otherwise “moving away from its traditional roots.””
Interesting to see the shift that has marked so many SBC affiliates. The website mentioned is down but has aspects archived. The briefest of scans produced this, evidently a reply letter on behalf of the Bellevue Board of Directors.
Another letter made requests of the board for three years of missions, finance and other committee meeting minutes (ten years for the deacons), names of all committees, councils, and advisory boards as well as assigned staff members not listed in the Lay Ministries Handbook for three years and associated minutes and info (which would put this in the timeframe of transition from Rogers to Gaines). They also asked for mailing lists of other members in order to communicate with them “regarding recent matters in the Church’s life” and other material to check for bylaw compliance. Here is a link to the reply:
http://web.archive.org/web/20070226184516/http://www.savingbellevue.com/coombsdenial.htm
There is some info about Eric at this blog about BBC.
https://newbbcopenforum.blogspot.com/2007/02/meet-mr-ace.html?commentPage=2&m=1
In the comment section:
“Another thought about Larry Ray. Charlie Brand is Larry Ray’s father in law. Draw your own conclusions there, but I know for a fact that Charlie Brand is a ferverant Pastor Supporter. More on that to come whenever a new thread get’s started.
Eric Brand is Charlie Brand’s son and was on the Pastor’s Serch Committee. Just some more intertwing.”
Numero cuatro?
It’s hard to fathom how doing ‘church’ could get this far off the rails in 40-45 years.
And by the way Muff, your previous commentis more like cinco.
When I received the left foot of fellowship, which to my shame, broke my heart it was just a two minute call to leadership over safety concerns. Then I became part of the invisible people where former brothers and sisters stare right past you. I understand its business, and it is just business but it hurts, which of course has no meaning at all. I dont get these folks what I could do with the money and resources they waist. So many could be helped. Again I understand I need to repent.
I would advise people to flee this place! Does every SBC have a closet labeled “Perverts?” I know it happens in other churches, but it just seems like SBC has them everywhere.
Okay. I have a mean streak, consequences be danged!
If I were Mrs. Doe, I would have rented a bill board on I-40 ….. Steve Gaines’ photo on one half and Mrs. Brand’s photo on the other …… written beneath: “EXPLICIT PHOTO COURTESY OF PASTOR ERIC BRAND: WELCOME TO BELLEVUE BAPTIST CHURCH”.
Call it “50 Shades of [Mega] Church”, and make a boatload with a bestseller.
Hook is a predator and a pedophile. Also, as a self-described “father figure”, he committed incest. Evil to the core. Jail time.
He was a paid employee of the church; the mega needs to pay $$$ for the damage they caused. (Donors beware: Is this how you intend your $$$ to be used?)
————
828. “… the communication seemed harmless as James Hook tried to portray himself as a father figure to Janet Doe.” 29.
“James A. Hook was made a paid volunteer coordinator at Bellevue Baptist Church by Pastor Ken Hindman in the children’s area for Sunday services from 7 a.m. to 1 p.m. Hook was an employee and/or agent of the Defendant Bellevue Baptist Church.” 30.
“In that position, James Hook encouraged 15-year-old Janet Doe to volunteer in the children’s Sunday school program where he worked and to work on Wednesday nights as well.”
i.e. The Alpha Stud bragging about his trophy:
“SEE WHAT I GOT THAT YOU! CAN’T! HAVE! SEE WHAT I’M GETTIN’ THAT YOU! DON’T!”
Eight words:
PRIVILEGE OF PASTORAL RANK.
“TOUCH NOT MINE ANOINTED!”
I also worry about his wife.
Thanks for including this. If the wife was photographed and those photos shared without her permission, that’s further evidence of abuses occurring through this man. And if she knew of photos, but likely was told their private use would keep her husband from porn, her desperation is tragic. And if she knew both that photos were taken and shared with “counselees,” then her possible ideas of being honored to be used for the “anointed pastor’s ministry “ require therapy for emotional domestic abuse. As the ex wife of a pastor, I know the deception that can be deployed to keep her in line.
Brian Darby,
I’m so sorry. So what happened? Or wiuld you rather nor talk about it?
Given what I’ ve been exposed to in the last 11 years, the answer to your question is “Yes.”
When I started working at a mega church 8 yrs ago, one of the first ‘stories’ I was told (by another staff member) was that there was ‘swinging’ going on amongst some couples in the church. None of this was approved by anyone in leadership (so I was told), but everyone knew about it, nonetheless. Just another clique, like the gossipy ladies or controlling elders. I mean this was just an AVERAGE conversation that I had with a coworker.
My shock-meter is very low. There is so much debauchery going on in churches, right under people’s noses.
Brian Darby,
“Again I understand I need to repent.”
++++++++++++++
for being frank about your former church? for feeling pain when your friends and community ignore you deciding you no longer exist?
if it matters, i think the real and actual sin list is pretty darn short.
‘repent’ implies something egregious you really had to go out of your way to do through concerted action or inaction.
the scandal of having a thought or feeling that isn’t puffing out hearts and rainbows is only on the spiritual control freak’s sin list.
Anna,
Would you be willing to tell me the name of the churtch if I kept it confidential? It may help me with something.
I am so sorry for what you have gone through. If you would ever like to tel your story, even anonymously, let me know.
dee,
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/john-ortberg-menlo-church_n_5f04e820c5b67a80bbffcdc4
Sometimes, it’s not hidden in a closet, it’s coming right from the top administration, the pastor, the pulpit. And this is not even of the SBC variety. It’s widespread.
GREAT IDEA!
Sometimes you just have to go fangs-out.
El Queso Grande?
Megachurches: As long as the money keeps flowing, anything goes? The big tent gets bigger, with a gospelly answer for everything: “Everybody’s welcome, No one’s perfect, Anything’s possible” said Ortberg after “restoration”. (“Restoration” code for gospel answer for everything.)
A comment at Huffpo: Reginald Lord 14 July, 2020 “These MegaChurches are wealth generating businesses, using the same impersonal policies and practices seen in the secular business communities. The members are groomed, threatened and riddled with guilt to keep them deeply loyal and to give, give, give, even to their last dime. It is all about the money and the gospel is the means to acquire lots of it.”
Gospel as a tool. For power, money, and vice.
They wouldn’t be only planting these megas in the most affluent suburbs if it was really all about the gospel…
I still hold to my position that the obvious is so large it’s overlooked. The SBC is an esoteric mystery religion. An esoteric pyramid topping the great unwashed.
Here is a 2018 post by Todd. He focusses on Albert Mohler and includes a picture of a gravesite pilgrimage. (James.P. Boyce) Setting aside the Dodeka issued, I would point out that not discussed is the question of why the founder of Southern Baptist Seminary is buried under an Egytian phallic replica?
https://thouarttheman.org/2018/06/12/is-sbts-president-albert-mohler-a-racist/
And a closeup of the grave itself:
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/38809901/james-pettigru-boyce/photo
My understanding of the Obelisks, includes the concept of temple guardian. In part, a similar role to the Lamasii of Assyria. Neither of which where intended to stand alone, but in pairs. Of the two, the Obelisk is clearly the explicitly sexual one in context, but also appropriate to denote the resting place of the Founding Father of a major religious institution. When I see the pictures linked above, I see a pilgrimage showing hommage, and the continuity of succeding generations, a succession of male paternity.
My takeaway of the symbolism pictured is the linkage of a man born in the Antibelium era, shaped by Princeton Theology, and leaving his legacy by training young spiritual sons at during the Fundamentalist/Modernist War, and buried under an occult symbol. This leaves a slight problem in that the kingdoms of this world, will become the kingdom of our God. I personaly wouldn’t want to rest under this symbol. At the very least, something more flacid.
The idea of the pastor-husband circulating sexual photos of his wife just depresses me. I fear that she feels shame. She should not. His actions betrayed her as a wife, as a woman, as a trusting child of God, as a friend of the other church members who saw the pictures. I wish I could give her a hug and a place to stay. I hope that she has complete love and acceptance from people who deserve her trust.
Ava Aaronson,
“A comment at Huffpo: Reginald Lord 14 July, 2020 “These MegaChurches are wealth generating businesses, using the same impersonal policies and practices seen in the secular business communities. The members are groomed, threatened and riddled with guilt to keep them deeply loyal and to give, give, give, even to their last dime. It is all about the money and the gospel is the means to acquire lots of it.”
++++++++++++++++++++
change, in general, is speeding up.
i can’t help but feel that change re:
–church no longer as profit center
–church not really running on executive business model anymore
–mega churches becoming extinct
–clergy & church tax exemptions
…is especially speeding up.
With Covid 19, the day of the mega church may be passing, while many are making it because of governments paycheck protection program , when the money runs out the layoffs will began. Less staff leads to less services and often less attendance. Also, at least in our area you have to pack them in which is impossible right now and the foreseeable future yet they still have that monster budget that needs to be fed.,I could be wrong though as Andy Stanley’s church is closed for in house services till 2021. I will have to say that one of our local mega’s has a lot of good programs such as Divorce Recovery and others, the problem is most of the family is on staff getting paid well and why a couple of folks I k ow have left that church, ethical issues.
Chuck,
Wade Burleson is doing an excellent series on our lives as Christians when we can’t “go to church”: how to be the church without the institution as we know it.
http://thewartburgwatch.com/2020/07/18/echurchwartburg-07-18-2020-wade-burleson-how-to-make-the-most-of-your-life/
History: Two elderly stay-at-home women (Peggy & Christine Smith) in the Hebrides prayed for their community to turn to God. The two could not attend church. God answered their stay-at-home prayers.
Our (non-mega) church has had no layoffs, and our church did not apply for PPP. Unfortunately, our beloved organist resigned because he will have no services or performances for the foreseeable future. The cost of living is high here, so quitting will let him trim some expenses and focus on his second job. The members are putting together a farewell gift of money to see him on his way.
Our church has put public health first—a necessity here, and NOT legally enforced. The loss of this man’s artistry and devotion is one consequence.
Let’s hope so!
I caught a sermon from Ray Johnston, Bayside Church-CA. I want to say it was 2017. He was pointing in the direction of house church type meetings. It was a very breathless sermon best summarized as, be afraid..be very afraid. In fact, I kept thinking during the presentation that President Trump would not take kindly to it. It painted a near-term negitive outlook, not the happy days are here again forecadt.
He did not call for a pandemic, but definitely expected rapid social change and stress. He nailed it.
But I have not seen any tangible preparations in churches influenced by Bayside. I do think the Mega model will be face many challenges.
Ava Aaronson,
I have enjoyed his sermon series. Wade often takes a different look at things.
Ava Aaronson,
If you look back, I’ve covered the Ortberg mess. The fact that it waas his son, not just som random volunteer, makes it even more concerning.
Please allow me to vent for a few minutes.
This post reopens some major wounds for me I thought were pretty much healed.
I went to the same high school as Pastor Brand. I didn’t know him, at least not well, but it was a small school so it was hard to not at least know the names of most people.
I did not witness anything untoward sexually while attending the school or church it was associated with. But it did me a great deal of damage nonetheless, along with the SBC and IFB churches I attended.
The Word says to teach the truth in love. There wasn’t much love either place. Their “love” usually was contingent on you toeing the party line.
What I remember most was the harshness and the scare and control tactics.
I grew up in an abusive and alcoholic home. Those places could have been a Godsend to me. Instead, they confirmed I was in this world alone. When a teacher accuses you in your absence of dealing drugs (which I’d never even considered doing) right in front of your classmates, yeah, there’s the love of God! And if that’s being said out in the open, one can only imagine what’s being said in the teacher’s lounge and other private spaces.
Did I have issues? Of course I did! How could anyone expect a person raised in the toxic environment I was *not* to have them? Would showing the love of God have helped? Absolutely. Instead, I ended up going pagan. Yes, I went from Christianity to Wicca, for sixteen years of my life, largely because of what I experienced in the SBC and IFB.
It took my mother’s funeral and an intervention from God Himself to bring me back to Him. I’ll be forever grateful to Him for that.
I wish it ended there, but it does not. Even now, I struggle, as in the eyes of these churches, these abusive pastors are seen as better, more Godly people, because they are married with kids and I am not.
They teach neither the truth nor in love.
“…Pastor Eric Brand who told each couple to stay married to their own spouses because God hates divorce.”
This is a sad but classical example of twisting Scripture. They treat the adultery as less grievous than the mercy made available by God to the faithful parties–namely, divorce (see Mt 1:19, 5:32, 19:9). I address this on my blog here: http://www.divorceminister.com/god-hates-adultery-more-than-he-hates-divorce/
It is disturbing how UN-biblical such counsel is! True biblical counsel would focus on the cheater and encouraging them to work on repentance for the well-being of their souls.
Especially in the era of “REAL MEN DON’T WEAR MASKS! AND YOU CAN’T MAKE ME!”
Think about this: The Above REAL MEN DON’T WEAR MASKS! merging with the existing Hypermasculinity of Biblical Manhood(TM). Sounds like they’d make a good fit, turning churches even more into plague-spreading death cults.
Someone posted a funny cartoon on Facebook the other day of three men in beekeeping suits, except one didn’t have his hat on and was screaming while bees attacked him. One of the other men was explaining to the third that the guy who didn’t wear his hat refused on the claim of “freedom”. Heh…
This just makes me sick, that he would do that to his wife.
I mean, this is why we tell kids not to be doing this, right? Because unlike those naughty Polaroids married couples took decades ago (yeah, where I lived, it was a thing to give newlyweds a Polaroid and a pack of film, not cheap), digital pictures are easily copied and moved around.
This reminds me of Vashti, the first wife of Ahasuerus, who was dumped because she wouldn’t put herself on display for her drunken husband and his vassals. This guy is displaying his wife to people who should not be seeing her this way. Why does he think he owns his wife like this?
So much more I could say here and I’m not having good thoughts about the book of Esther right now because of the way women are treated, and so I’ll shut up now.
Ava, thank you, I will check it out. Just curious, since my church along with others were closed for almost 2 months, we streamed our services to the members, since then we have reopened using our local public health Covid 19 guidelines but I find myself struggling to go. I got used to watching the services on my computer in my PJ’s relaxed and eating my breakfast. When I do go, it is so different than precovid ( not just the mask and social distancing) , a lot of missing people that I am fond off are not there and the whole atmosphere is just different. Maybe it is Covid burnout but the laughter and spontaneity is missing. Is this just me or others experiencing the same thing. I know it’s not the right attitude to have but it is something I am struggling with.
As an addendum above , the staff are great and loving and doing the best they can but young children are missing, many elderly for obvious reasons, our singing is lack luster and people are not lingering afterwards to chitchat which I loved to do. It almost feels like a job that you are not enthusiastic about, you appreciate the paycheck and benefits but you would rather be somewhere else. That’s how I have felt since we have reopened. I used to feel emotionally recharged and ready to face another week with all it’s struggles but not anymore. Me only?
Chuck,
“Maybe it is Covid burnout but the laughter and spontaneity is missing. Is this just me or others experiencing the same thing. I know it’s not the right attitude to have but it is something I am struggling with.”
++++++++++++++
i’ve noticed that in a friend group, we’ve sort of forgot how to relate. the chemistry is…. sort of gone. the lively rhythm of our personalities is sort of …. gone.
it’s weird. (we’ll rebuild it, though)
another example of “unprecedented”.
i imagine this is a sociologist’s and psychologist’s fantasy.
(i think this is completely natural and to be expected, as is the struggle you feel, and not a matter of right and wrong. no need to turn it into a sin thing or a moral thing.)
I think this shows collective long-term trauma. We’ll recover, as individuals and groups, but life will not be the same.
We are still watching the weekly service on-line; our church is limited to 50 in-person and no singing; will probably wait for an effective vaccine first, or if that doesn’t happen we’ll have to reconsider. But it will definitely be different. I’ve noticed, also, that I like getting up and getting my workout in Sunday morning, and not have to worry about being presentable at a certain time for church. And the kids love being able to sleep longer on Sunday morning…
Here’s my reaction:
Do you remember the 1973 film Soylent Green?
There was a scene in which the old-timey actor Edward G. Robinson wept into his hands saying:
“…How did we come to this?…”
I felt the same way when I read about Brand’s alleged antics.
It strains credulity that this is where ‘doing church’ has gone over the last 40-45 years.
Muff Potter,
And from that same movie, if I recall correctly, some man in the culture of that time referred to a female living with him as….”furniture.”
Yep. “Soylent Green” was on a few weeks ago when I was over at my mother’s house, and the woman in the rich guy’s apartment was referred to as “furniture.” It was jarring, to be honest.
and as long as he kept strawberry jam or something similar for her to eat, which was an expensive rarity, she seemed to be content, and the guy was pleased with that. How could that not be jarring? That must be why I still remember that part even though I haven’t seen the movie since the 70’s I don’t think. Although a high school teacher of my daughter’s used the movie in class and joked about that part – I think in a good way – denouncing misogyny and that was my daughter’s take, too.
Chuck,
As you point out, and others note, we are in a major paradigm shift.
Regarding masses gathering or people in spaces: indoor sports arenas and megachurches, in particular, are useless. Cruise ships – deadly. How will we emerge? – the 1M$ ???
With the internet, journalism changed from paper to online. Major paradigm shift. Pivot or fade. Real.
To pivot, as Simon Sinek would say, Start with the Why. For example, if Burlington-Northern would have focused on transportation instead of trains, they would have pivoted & added an airline when/before PanAm came along and changed the travel industry.
Why do we as a church need each other? How do we make that happen?
I found TWW, online, when overseas on business. Since then, TWW has completely changed our/my approach to church, for the better. Safety, honesty, and integrity surpass entertainment value & celebrity, every time.
Perhaps this isn’t the best attitude for me to have, but the more I hear about the church nowadays, the more grateful it makes me feel that I became a “done” years ago! Whoever sees this, may Jesus bless you and your family and I wish you a beautiful day.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVfaX4VSCWA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOKdx2PD1-g&t=5s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1yX20oDv7I&t=1s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5koJZS70s0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VrcO6JaMrM
https://expreacherman.com/
https://expreacherman.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/cucuzza-faith-without-works-is-dead.pdf
https://expreacherman.com/stemming-fruit-inspection/
https://expreacherman.com/2014/06/01/some-lordship-salvationists-pet-passages-explained/
Interesting how this perchance encounter with TWW (which has global reach) on the other side of the world, completely transformed our relationship with our local church when we came back home. Free, without any $$$ investment on our part.
I have no idea how this fits into the big scheme of things, and for us, it had nothing to do with Covid, but that is how it happened. Big paradigm shift for us.
For those who protest TWW – it was all about truth. And if truth is the driving force, so be it. Bring it on, we say. “You shall know the truth, and the truth will set you free.” JC
Ava Aaronson,
Kodak invented a “digital camera”, Before everyone else, or almost before anyone else but the the top dogs at Kodak did not market their “ digital” camera….. they made most of their money off the film, and the chemicals to develop and print the film…. well, Kodak is no more…
Jeffrey Chalmers,
So they didn’t pivot?
Do you have ideas or opinions or a “vision” for how the church will advance or reinvent or shift or pivot?
We, the church, are dealing with church leadership corruption, internet access, a pandemic, etc.
Ava Aaronson,
“Do you have ideas or opinions or a “vision” for how the church will advance or reinvent or shift or pivot?”
+++++++++++++++
it’s clear that with covid-19, sheltering in place, social distancing, people are simplifying their lives (first out of necessity, now out of having adjusted to it).
all these things that seemed so important that people were scrambling to make happen in their lives are suddenly not really important anymore.
it’s like we all were addicted to tight schedules and high ideals of all these things we needed to be doing and all these places we needed to be to at least try to get our lives on the road to fabulous…
and now it’s like, so what? it wasn’t really that great.
my feeling is that church falls into this category.
and i suspect many people are discovering “what ho! turns out God’s address is not the church building! i think it was smoke and mirrors after all!”
not bad… not bad a’t’all.
That is such a bizarre story, & it would be vastly inappropriate for a non-Christian counsellor to do this, let alone a ‘Pastor’. It has shades of Mark Driscoll. Not only is it wrong, it just comes across as vastly immature.
God’s address is not the church building (well said) – with a pastor displaying photos of his wife as a piece of property, it’s definitely not God.
I assume there are good people attending bad leadership churches, asking, “What next? Where do we go?” Sheltering at home gives time to reflect.
I believe a lot of the animosity toward house churches was from people who saw the potential to make a lot of money from church. So, of course there were warnings against it. A career pastor couldn’t make a nice living in a house church movement (despite what James Macdonald thinks now).
I went to an all seminary class on cults before the last SBC conference I went to in Phoenix. There were a lot of Golden Gate students who were big fans of the house church movement. At the conference, suddenly everything turned against that seminary and that movement and several of the big speeches were anti house church movement.
But of course, that was right during the middle of the New Calvinist takeover of the institutions. The same nasty rhetoric was used against SEBTS and it’s need to be “Calvinized” for being “too liberal” (with Patterson at the head, which is amusing).
There are cons to every movement, but I believe a lot of the dislike of the house church movement was from men who were terrified their big money dreams would be squashed by a move toward small churches with little budgets, not some evil theology.
Ava Aaronson,
Kodak finaly tried to pivot, , but it was to late……
great question with respect to what a “true church” will do next….. I do know that # of butts in the seat (pews) is not a measure of “true church”….. nor is abusive church leadership…nor is putting the “church welfare ” ( i.e. reputation of leadership) over the welfare of the pew peons..
In our dismay, let’s not lose sight of healthy churches. There are churches smaller than megas out there, and a wondrous variety of worship formats and traditions.
If I wanted to find a good church right now, I would look for one that encouraged adherence to public health guidelines and emergency declarations.
If done right , home churches could be an answer to all the mess going on in our churches. If you go on YouTube you can see how Francis Chan’s organization does it in San Francisco. I like the model he has developed, if you can keep the leadership of each group in the “servant model” instead of the current authoritarian leadership model. It would more cost effective than large buildings that sit empty for most of the week. Chan’s book “Letters to the Church” is an excellent read that was heavily criticized by Tim Challies and other traditional pastors. No system is perfect of course but house churches can be great from my experiences with them. I loved getting to know people on a deeper level and. we did service projects for people in our neighborhood. Research shows that people are lonely and many larger churches can still be lonely places because of the difficulty of people getting to know one another, home churches can be an opportunity of remedy that issue.
The same Francis Chan who has been covered repeatedly on TWW? If so, no thank you.
http://thewartburgwatch.com/2020/03/11/francis-chan-and-trin-both-claim-multiple-healings-in-myanmar-one-has-been-refuted-one-is-questionable-and-both-exalt-the-outsiders-power/
At thst time, Burlington Northern did not exist as a single entity. It was two independent railroads: the CB&Q (Chicago Burlington & Quincy) and Great Northern (three if you count the Northern Pacific), and railroads were VERY competitive instead of cooperative, as well as VERY conservative and set in their ways.
CHuck,
Just don’t do a full-honk flip and see Home Churches as the Perfect Solution.
Both Big Churches and Home Churches have their problems and Dark Sides, just different ones. I have long thought there is an optimum size for a congregation (probably based on the human troop-size limit of 100-150) and Megas are Too Big while Home Churches are Too Small to function optimally.
This is just awful. Wow.
None of these people have any respect for women at all.
CHuck,
“I loved getting to know people on a deeper level and. we did service projects for people in our neighborhood.”
+++++++++++++++
well, isn’t this great. (no sarcasm, here)
.
.
one of the reasons i opted out of the institution is all the huge investment (of money, time, talent, skill, energy, effort, technology) was simply for the institution.
sometimes the institution ate it up like a voraciously starved being; sometimes the institution ate it up like a glutton.
it stayed 100% in-house.
nothing was invested back into the neighborhood & town
(who unwittingly funded the whole enterprise by paying the institution’s share of tax-funded public services.)
on a personal level, all i had to offer was eaten up by the institution several cities away. i ended up completely ignornig my neighborhood & town where i live.
one of the great things about reclaiming ownership of my own faith is that i can invest in making a difference in my neighborhood.
I agree and am absolutely disgusted by this. Poor lady. She is probably either unaware or coerced into with ‘divorce is not an option’ teachings and so forth. Yikes to him and anyone who witnessed this and didn’t call him out immediately.
I think this the time when you see how well churches have managed their budgets overall. You save pennies or pay off debt for a rainy day…
Wait… what? Just when I thought I’ve heard everything. What utter depravity.
Does anyone know what Brand is up to now? Is he still a “pastor”?
Hmm. It could be so, although personally i have heard some pretty oddball house church issues.
I think the smaller you are the more potential for a lot of cliquish and cultish behavior, although that doesn’t by any means mean that all would be cultish. But large churches are prone to some issues and little ones prone to others, i suspect.
Churches start up for only a few reasons: actual local demand; deliberate planting (sincere, cynical, or power-mad); and conflict or dissatisfaction (legitimate or kooky).
People should ask how and why a church was founded. Pay attention to the emotions as well as the words. Then do a little research. The Internet has tons of information, so this should not be hard. It’s worth the trouble if you’re planning to spend years with a group.
My own congregation broke away from another over vestments, of all things. That was in the 1800s, though, and now we all kind of shake our heads and chuckle about our origin story. Both congregations are still thriving and still in the same denomination.
Excellent point!
personally, i think i would not want to join a particularly new church, or one who had never changed pastors. And it would take a lot to get me to join a tiny one, but that’s just personal preference..most house churches wouldn’t meet either of those stipulations.
Phoenix, totally offthread, but I recently noticed 3 concentric circles in a neighbor’s yard… Is this wiccan or something else? Appreciate any information!
Do-it-yourself Fairy Rings?
Newborn Crop Circles?
Small Saucer Nests (from Sixties UFOlogy)?
Or somebody just messing with you or your neighbor?
In such cases, I always wonder if Pastor has to go fanatical on GOD H&S DIVORCE!!! because he’s a closet abuser and if he didn’t his wife would leave him in an instant.
That pic (among others) got reprinted at Internet Monk this past Saturday.
https://internetmonk.com/archive/92486
Ahasuerus = Xerxes, Padishah, Shahanshah, Shah of All Iran and Not-Iran.
And in the Book of Esther, said Great King is portrayed as a fool who goes with whichever courtier laid on the most Flattery the most Recently. (Something you would never see in the Official Chronicles of Kings.)
I’m sorry I missed this comment when you first posted it. Thank you for sharing your story. I don’t know how long you have been healing, but the process does pay off with time. In my own experience, more recent healing has built upon earlier insights, some of them hard won. Blessings and freedom to you.
He would absolutely deserve it (being left), and I am certain she deserves better than living with him!
Any institution seeking to do right could start with:
– respecting women, addressing domestic violence
– respecting children/minors, addressing child abuse
– respecting science, addressing pandemics
– respecting diversity, addressing racism, misogyny
– respecting workers, addressing economic disparities
It seems like Jesus modeled in a similar vein.
This is awful. As for the commenter who suggested putting such photos on a billboard, consider if that was you. Would you want intimate images of you on a billboard?
Who knows if the wife knew of such photos existing. Most men seem to be quite the predators these days and so many women have had photos and videos made of them — be it showering, engaging in intimacy, changing clothes, or whatever — as men are perverts and predators.
So many men create what is called “revenge porn” (although I hate that term, as it’s not accurate) of women and most of the women have no idea it exists.
I feel awful for the woman whose image was shared with others. And as another suggested, if she did know of such images being created, then it was likely under the misbelief that such was needed to keep her husband interested in her and away from porn or adultery.
For all the women out there — if you are led to believe you must be sexual or revealing in photos or videos supposedly to keep your man from straying or accessing porn — please be disabused of such notion. Decent men are not wanting to make porn of their wives. Decent men need no such photos or videos. Porn-addled perverts are interested in such things and no porn-addled pervert should be married in the first place as such men deserve no wife.
Porn is not sex and sexy is not pornographic. Look at how the perverts infect every section of life. Camera phones everywhere are being used to violate women, same with hidden spy cams and the like. Technology and the proliferation of online porn have aided in creating super predators out of most men. Seriously, the average male has been consuming porn since the age of 10 or 12, so for all the teenagers and young women and women in the world, realize you’re most likely dealing with a porn-addled pervert when you date and/or marry.
I feel so sorry for that wife. What a creep pervert for a husband. An anti-husband more like. Hope she divorces the pervert. What a violation for her. So many wives have this done to them. So if she is reading these comments, I hope she knows she is not alone. So many women have this done to them. My heart goes out to her.
dee,
Initially your post clarified the situation. Thanks. Great coverage. Now that the MSM is covering this, we have a better understanding of events. My guess is that a decade ago when you started your blog, you had no idea you would be in this position. Thanking God for your work. Essential to understanding how to interact with “church”. God bless.
The first step to right this wrong is a change in leadership. Steve Gaines must be removed as senior pastor. I am friends with an individual that was a victim of his when he was at Gardendale Baptist before he ever came to BBC. Steve Gaines will stop at nothing to keep his position and power. He does not care about the collateral damage done to countless people. BCC is dealing with a control freak that is paranoid. None of this mess can even be addressed properly until he is forced to resign. What good is the message if the messenger is crooked as a barrel of fish hooks.
Steve,
What would happen if a large number of members demanded this, and discontinued their pledges?
People can leave, too, although it’s tempting to wait for better days if the place is precious.
Well, as I say on my blog. When divorce is NEVER acceptable, then every sort of evil behavior in the marriage IS acceptable.
Worth repeating!
Divorce Minister,
“When divorce is NEVER acceptable, then every sort of evil behavior in the marriage IS acceptable.”
+++++++++++++++++
wow — that’s crystal clear.
(and just the right number of words for a fortune cookie fortune)
As a lifelong single, I am very familiar with the theological concept “Salvation by Marriage Alone”.
Headless Unicorn Guy,
HUG, you are marvelous.
That suggests said photos were not only “explicit” but KINKY.
And/or an unwanted peek into Pastor’s Paraphilas.
(In my experience in Furry Fandom, I observed that people into Heavy Kink like to publicize their Kink as “Normal”, to the point of literally “Witnessing” for it. With an accompanying Attitude of Superiority towards us stupid unwashed who don’t. Very much like their Kink functions as a religion.)
As well as an application of “Feature, Not Bug”.
Oh but he has been self-appointed as a ‘Wounded Healer’ (TM) didn’t you know this?
This Brand situation reminds so much of Paul Williams. He too counseled with folks that had been sexually abused. You had to fill out a lengthy questionnaire if you wanted to work with the youth/children. If you answered yes, you had to go to Paul for counseling. Talk about the fox guarding the hen house. I had so many women contact me because they were so upset the way Paul questioned them. Often times explicit. Nothing at Bellevue has changed whatsoever except much decreased membership. Gaines should have been fired for his action then and now but those folks idol worship him. I still remember the death threats I received from some of the “good” Bellevue faithful when I would have a press conference or give an interview speaking against Gaines.
Friend,
What is precious about a church whose pastor is a dictator, where as a member you are not allowed to see a line item budget, you are not allowed to know the salary of the pastor, the pastor keeps a staff pastor who is an admitted child molester on staff and tells no one for six months and only then when the son the staff pastor molested threatens to go public. There is no way Eric Brand was operating in a secret vacuum when he was that close to the senior pastor. Steve Gaines’s problems did not start at BBC they were there all along when he was at Gardendale Baptist. There is nothing precious about any of it.
Kate,
Or maybe she’s an exhibitionist…
Good grief, you can’t make this stuff up!!