John MacArthur’s The Masters University Has Been Put On Probation By The Western Association of Schools and Colleges

“No man knows how bad he is till he has tried very hard to be good.” CS Lewis


Princess Buttercup has joined the Parsons’ home!

Buttercup was the victim of a backyard breeder. She (and 30 other pugs) were so poorly treated that the owner’s son called the authorities. She is shy and anxious but seems to love our home. She has learned to go through the doggy door. Sending kudos out to Mid Atlantic Pug Rescue for making this possible.


I was told that The Masters University was going to be put on probation several weeks ago by one savvy person who shall remain anonymous. I planned to post this next Monday but the cat is out of the bag.

It is important to understand that John MacArthur is the current President of the university as well as the seminary. Today, Warren Throckmorton wrote The Master’s University Placed on Probation by Regional Accrediting Organization 

Here is a link from Dr Throckmorton’s website to the REPORT OF THE WSCUC TEAM For Reaffirmation of Accreditation To The Master’s University and Seminary March 21-23, 2018 I believe it was this report that started the rumor mill.

(Women’s issues:) 

While the panel noted TMS’s efforts to examine the presence of women’s experiences and perspectives within the curriculum, they encouraged the seminary to “use its findings in ways that can demonstrate to the next review team that the assessment process in this area has resulted in positive change, perhaps as broader dispersion of women’s perspectives through the curriculum.”

(Academic freedom:) 

Multiple reports were provided to the AVT that several persons were believed to have been dismissed from faculty roles for reasons of “lack of fit” with theological values that were not explicitly outside stated theological standards. While these could not be thoroughly investigated as part of this review, the volume of comments and specific details provided leave a concerning question of whether academic freedom exists.

(Women/diversity issues:)

In prior WSCUC reports, TMUS’s lack of diversity in hiring and curriculum was noted. ​In 2018, records and interviews demonstrated the presence of female faculty in university faculty ranks and in junior ranks of administration. The seminary reported the presence of female scholarship being included in supplemental reading lists in the syllabi of required courses which is a beginning response but is not sufficiently robust to be considered complete. Commitments to diversity in academic content and hiring practices do not need to be seen as contrary to institutional values regarding the role of women in ministerial leadership but still require additional, timely, and specific attention.

(Autonomy is rather lacking:) 

Notably, significant proportions of TMUS faculty and staff have dual relationships with institutional leaders, as many worship at GCC where President MacArthur has been the senior pastor since 1969, in addition to working at the university or seminary where he is President. Further, a number of cabinet-level leaders of TMUS are also on staff at GCC. Consequently, employees’ higher education supervisors can also be their pastoral staff member. Some interviewees noted that lives were so intertwined that, should they be dismissed or leave TMU over a substantial difference of opinion, they lost their entire support community — as a TMUS alumnus and employee as well as a congregant in Grace. They reported this was the reason for past silence on matters of concern.

Further, in conversation with members of the board, the AVT developed concern that the board’s statements of extraordinary confidence in President MacArthur have resulted in less oversight of the administration than is expected, especially in a period of significant flux as has recently occurred. Board members stated unequivocally that they could say “no” to the president, but could not identify any occasions on which they actually had done so and self-identified as President MacArthur’s closest friends in the world

(Students who are children of donors seem to get better institutional aid:)

The AVT noted with concern the auditor findings that “multiple students who are family members of donors or related parties at TMUS received institutional aid … [which] appeared to be above what is typically offered to all students and is an inconsistency in awarding … according to the currently policy.” This is troubling, both for students without such connections, but also as a matter of integrity with donor, tax-exempt donations, and financial aid practices. The lack of timely responsiveness to auditor reports is concerning .

(Bullying and a climate of fear:)

This, coupled with the finding of a pervasive ​culture and climate of fear, intimidation, bullying, and uncertainty which appears to be created by the newly appointed management, provides significant areas of concern regarding sound and ethical business practices; these concerns were exacerbated for the AVT by significant community member reports of the fear of speaking up, despite protections of a whistleblower policy .

(Conflict of interest including that of MacArthur’s son in law)

In 2017, the auditor highlighted as a “significant deficiency” that there were several instances of management overriding or circumventing controls that were in place to process payments or contracts outside established policies. Further, the report noted that there was the appearance of conflicts of interest with the President’s son-in-law supervising a contract from which he benefits, as well as institutional aid being awarded to related parties exceeding typical award amounts, but there was no evidence at the time of the visit that these concerns had been addressed in more than a cursory manner

(Grades overridden and PhDs awarded outside of usual practices:)

As noted previously, grading and degree integrity emerged as an area of concern relative to incidents of a grade change in the seminary, outside usual and customary practices. The report was that a faculty member gave a student a failing grade. When the student appealed the grade, the TMS leadership had the assignment regraded by someone other than the professor of record; this second individual issued a passing grade that was recorded in lieu of the faculty member’s assigned grade. Multiple reports were received — through the confidential email file and in conversations with TMS staff and leadership — of doctorates being awarded outside defined program and degree requirements. Faculty processes and voices appear to have been silenced and/or overridden by competing concerns from other sectors of leadership. These are alarming reports as they speak to the meaning, quality, and integrity of a degree from TMS, the integrity of the institution and its leaders, and the fidelity to approved standards

(Financial concerns of the institution:)

The institution is projecting a negative change in net assets from operations for the next three years ranging from $1.3M to $385K annually. This negative change includes the release of funds to meet the operational needs of the university and seminary. The release of funds ranges from $4.1 M to $4.9M annually each year for three years. These negative changes are a result of reduced undergraduate enrollment, a tuition reset, and the reduction in auxiliary revenue.

Warren Throckmorton had this to say.

Of particular concern is a finding of conflict of interest involving president’s son-in-law Kory Welch who functions as an administrator. According to the action letter, this individual oversees contracts which have gone to friends and relatives.

There is also mixing of staff and payments between MacArthur’s ministry Grace to You and TMU. For instance, on the 2015 990 form for Grace to You, John MacArthur’s son-in-law Kory Welch’s business were given nearly $790,000 for contract work.

Is there anyone out there who is *shocked* by these observations of the agency?

The team found a pervasive culture and climate of fear, intimidation, bullying, and uncertainty among significant numbers of faculty and staff.

The team recommends the board immediately establish a special task force to address these substantial​ ​concerns, including related personnel actions (CFR 1.3, 1.6, 1.7, and 3.6).

The team recommends the board immediately establish a special task force to address these substantial​ ​concerns, including related personnel actions (CFR 1.3, 1.6, 1.7, and 3.6).
The team found a pattern of seemingly arbitrary personnel actions (hirings, terminations, promotions, demotions, and lack of regular evaluations) with a lack of due process and in
WSCUC Team Report for TMUS: March/2018
42
violation of existing TMUS Employee and Faculty Handbooks. This included reports that some individuals had been notified they would be dismissed after the Onsite Review Team visit.
The team recommends that the board hold the President accountable for ensuring that his leadership team and those in their span of care follow institutional policy in personnel decisions and require quarterly reporting on staff and faculty transitions and evaluations, with note of the importance of honoring the Whistleblower Act and related policy in the Employee Handbook (1.6, 1.7, 3.2, 3.6, 3.7, and 3.9). Specifically, the team recommends the board authorize an independent review of all faculty and staff departures over the last 2-3 years. There were multiple independent reports of concerning irregularities.

The institution fails to meet the WSCUC requirement for governing board independence. Virtually all board members have long-term relationships with the President and come from within his specific circle of influence.
The team recommends that the board immediately review the WSCUC Independent Governing Board Policy and conform accordingly (CFRs 3.7 and 3.9, and Independent Governing Board Policy).
The team noted several instances of academic irregularity outside established procedures and best practices. This includes the awarding of some doctoral degrees with significant leadership pressure and outside usual academic standards and reviews, significant faculty hiring from alumni ranks as well as faculty hiring practices which lack substantial review, awarding faculty rank without traditional faculty and/or chair input, and individuals directly or indirectly overseeing academic programs in which they are enrolled.

The team recommends that institutional leadership assiduously follow the policies of the Faculty Handbook and higher education traditional practices, with the Provost being
WSCUC Team Report for TMUS: March/2018 43 directly accountable to the board for reporting on faculty hirings, releases, and awarding of degrees (CFRs 1.3, 2.1, 2.2, 2.4, 3.10, and 4.6).

The team notes with concern a pattern of operational irregularities, including the 2017 auditor’s specific finding on appearance of conflicts of interest with the President’s son-in-law supervising a contract from which he benefits, as well as institutional aid being awarded to related parties exceeding typical award amounts. The lack of response to this finding six months after it was identified as an auditor “significant finding” adds to the concerns of leadership willingness to promptly align with accreditation and financial audit standards.

The team recommends that the institution seek and receive legal and auditor guidance and implement practices to insure the resolution of all reported conflicts of interest (CFRs 3.6 and 3.7)​.

The following letter was sent to John MacArthur outlining the above concerns.

Closing *pithy* statement

Just like Paul Pressler’s extracurricular activities are considered the worst kept secret in Texas, John MacArthur has long been known to live well and to ensure that his friends and family also live well. This was probably NOT a big surprise to anyone.

Keep those tithes rolling in, folks. MacArthur and friends need it.


Comments

John MacArthur’s The Masters University Has Been Put On Probation By The Western Association of Schools and Colleges — 225 Comments

  1. The good old boys will most likely attempt to frame this as:
    –An assault on Religious Freedom.
    –Tell people that they answer to a higher authority and are doing their nasty business in A
    “Godly, Gospel Way”…..meaning white males pushing a patriarchal and misogynist agenda.
    –Try their fear and intimidation tactics on all who question them.

    I really wonder if when it comes down to it, whether The “Master’s” University will decide to stop accepting Federal Student Aid instead of complying with state and Federal rules attached to that money.

    If they do that, some of the pressure will be removed by WASC, but some of the Student Privacy and Violence Against Women Act will still be enforced….

    Looking forward, in a semi-sick way to seeing how they try to spin this, and how many people will believe their spin…

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  2. Keep those tithes rolling in, folks. MacArthur and friends need it.

    “Writing for a penny a word is stupid.
    IF YOU WANT TO GET RICH, START YOUR OWN RELIGION.”
    — L Ron Hubbard

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  3. ps. I just thought it was really amusing to read “a concerning question of whether academic freedom exists” – you don’t say? lol

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  4. There was also this, which Relevant pointed out:

    “Additionally, as a result of inquiry prompted by Third Party Complaints to the Commission and the visiting team interview with staff concerning the handling of a reported rape of a student a decade ago, the Commission is concerned about the institution’s attention to the requirements of the Clery Act and the Violence Against Women’s Act (VAWA).”

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  5. ishy,

    It’s interesting they note the Clergy Act. That could mean they know who the perpetrator is. As we theorized earlier with Jane’s story, Masters protected him and vilified her, so he must be a relation or some famous pastor now.

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  6. These millionaire “preachers” do not get the simple reality of what Jesus so plainly stated. You cannot serve God and Mammon. What these jerks are selling is not “the Gospel” but whatever best serves their own wallets. There will be hell to pay and many of these guys are quite old and will not be around much longer. They have no idea for they have fed themselves a lie that you can serve both. The millionaires despise and hate the real Jesus. This is what Jesus plainly states. MacArthur is worth $12 mill plus. This is how great his hatred is for Jesus.

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  7. MacArthur has NEVER been a part of the cultural mainstream. He never will be either. The current culture is very unhappy about this.
    __________

    Master’s seminary will be fine without Western Association accreditation.
    _______________

    I tried to count the number of books MacArthur has written. Since most of them have also been translated into Spanish, it’s pretty difficult. However, it’s at least 100 plus. If you write 100 plus books, are President of a seminary and senior pastor of a large church for 30 plus years you SHOULD have a significant income. As I understand it however, J-Mac himself lives a very non ostentatious life. Whether or not his son-in-law who appears to be the administrator of much of it is too well re-imbursed will not be my call. Koury’s responsibilities are immense.

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  8. Siteseer:
    ps. I just thought it was really amusing to read “a concerning question of whether academic freedom exists” – you don’t say? lol

    Unfortunately, I think this is a problem at most “Christian” colleges. Can’t tell you how many times I heard Jerry Falwell talk about how we should be all about religious freedom, but then say how we couldn’t openly disagree about issues and had to force the US to create moral laws only based on fundamentalist Christianity.

    Liberty is in trouble for that right now: https://relevantmagazine.com/current/nation/report-liberty-university-faculty-regularly-spikes-unflattering-student-newspaper-stories/

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  9. senecagriggs: If you write 100 plus books, are President of a seminary and senior pastor of a large church for 30 plus years you SHOULD have a significant income.

    Just like Jesus…

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  10. Who is this “Master” after whom the seminary is named? Seems to be JMac, because Jesus definitely is not.

    This is almost like Bob Jones “University”, or Oral Roberts “University”.

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  11. Ken F (aka Tweed),

    Because you couldn’t possibly donate all that money to worthy causes rather than let it pile up in your and your relatives’ bank accounts. Just love how we are all encouraged that our ‘barns will overflow’ if we just keep giving money to the church.

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  12. senecagriggs: Master’s seminary will be fine without Western Association accreditation.

    Did you even read the article? The college has ethical and financial issues . . .

    I doubt the seminary will be just fine.

    Considering the information I’ve read concerning men from this seminary leading churches, none of this is surprising.

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  13. senecagriggs: If you write 100 plus books, are President of a seminary and senior pastor of a large church for 30 plus years you SHOULD have a significant income.

    Rich off of Jesus . . . what Christianity is all about.

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  14. IIRC, it is not unknown for a self-described christian institution of higher education to create its own accreditation body for the purpose of claiming that it is accredited; the newly created accreditation body later attracts other schools. TMS is sufficiently powerful and resource-rich that this would be an easy “out” if they lose their present accreditation and don’t want to, or can’t, conform to alternative bodies’ requirements.

    More and more, it seems to me that the actual (ie, functional, as opposed to aspirational or original intention) purpose of christian institutions is “social control.” That might be tolerable if the institutions were actually accomplishing God’s purpose of transforming people into the likeness of Jesus. But it seems that this purpose is very commonly submerged beneath a press of lesser purposes, such as “keeping the entity operational” or, much worse, self-oriented (& conflicted) agendas of individual office holders within the institutions.

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  15. Given my 30 plus years as a faculty at a big State U, and my attending a GARBC ( indepentent, fundamentailst, baptist) high school that pushed LABC ( which became the Master’s University), none of what is written above surprises me ( my senior class even stayed at the dorms of LABC). Freedom of thought/speech is severly threaten at Big State (secular) inistutions, and has NEVER existed at these “Christian Institutions” . I have experienced it first hand…

    I am SO THANKFUL that I did not listen ( succumbed to the spiritual abuse) of my fundy “leaders” and go down the path that they were pushing me… and the fact that I read and comment on this blog indicates that I still care about the integrety of the “body of Christ”…. despite the fundies telling me that i would become currupt/carnal/lost, by attending the evil State schools. I can not emphasize enough the bullying/ bran washing these “leaders” thrust on there young students…

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  16. PS.. the pug is cute…..rescue dogs are great… I sometimes wonder if they “know” we have “resuced them” and that makes them even more loyal/ friendly…

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  17. Siteseer:
    ps. I just thought it was really amusing to read “a concerning question of whether academic freedom exists” – you don’t say? lol

    I have to admit that I had a fit of giggles as I read through the report.

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  18. ishy:
    There was also this, which Relevant pointed out:“Additionally, as a result of inquiry prompted by Third Party Complaints to the Commission and the visiting team interview with staff concerning the handling of a reported rape of a student a decade ago, the Commission is concerned about the institution’s attention to the requirements of the Clery Act and the Violence Against Women’s Act (VAWA).”

    I believe that this stuff has been going on for years at TMS. Now they are being called on it. Let’s see if MacArthur does anything about it. I believe he has run his church, school and business as his own personal fiefdom and uses it to throw favors (money and jobs)n at friends and family.

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  19. Siteseer,

    Frankly that’s a problem in every public university, too. diversity of thought is discouraged or even not allowed. See Heterodox Academy. Education is at a critical juncture and our present system is untenable outside of the STEM fields where those HS students negotiate like pros. The value for cost is a huge topic because of student loan debt. I have been surprised at how many high performance HS students are looking at alternatives.

    A dirty little secret out there the educrats would rather taxpayers don’t know is that high performing HS students across the board are taking required credit courses online. During the school year school courses are free. And now they want to limit that it’s gotten so big. Students choose to do this so they can spend their “school” hours focused on taking more classes in their interest area. It might mean more lab time for the science kid. Or, the opportunity for the vocal performance kid to learn piano. This is bringing in a whole new paradigm concerning education. How this translates to post secondary is a huge topic right now as more and more fields move to credentialing.

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  20. I am surprised SBTS escaped probation from SACS over quite a few things— but the most glaring was SBTS conferring Academic Credit for CJ Mahaneys Pastors College students. Most did not even have bachelors degrees! That is a big violation! And there was talk of similar special arrangements concerning Campus work study and discounted tuition for people affiliated with CJ even though his church was not SBC at the time. Once the academic credit for SGM pastors college students became public on blogs, the issue suddenly went away. Not sure how. Hmm. Of course, he had already gotten by with ousting female faculty in the 90’s. In one instance, he simply got rid of the Carver school of Social Work.

    I have been through several SACS audits and a college president friend of mine worked for SACS for years so I know there are political elements involved, too. A big concern for the older respected profs I knew 25 years ago (both male and female) was the veering away from any principled meritorious consideration in hiring. They had a point. My guess is meritorious at Masters is how close one is to McArthur. Sigh.

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  21. Mr. Jesperson,
    I heard that he and his family members love quite well. some very nice abodes as do his family? Can anyone confirm this? I have been told this but scores of people over many years.

    Get ready for the attack dogs. There are quite a few. They may stay on the down low due to the report but….they could employ the minions and Satin (sic) and daughters of Stan (sic)approach. I look forward to watching the response.

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  22. “The team found a pervasive culture and climate of fear, intimidation, bullying, and uncertainty among significant numbers of faculty and staff.”

    What would you expect?! After awhile, most institutions take on the personality of its leader. John MacArthur has always come across as “I’m right, you’re wrong. My way or the highway. I alone possess Biblical truth.” And the New Calvinists love him – beware, there is a MacAruthurite coming to a church near you! You can spot them – they will be toting a John MacArthur study bible.

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  23. “The institution is projecting a negative change in net assets from operations for the next three years ranging from $1.3M to $385K annually. This negative change includes the release of funds to meet the operational needs of the university and seminary. The release of funds ranges from $4.1 M to $4.9M annually each year for three years. These negative changes are a result of reduced undergraduate enrollment, a tuition reset, and the reduction in auxiliary revenue.”

    Could someone translate this into English for me? Does it mean “the institution” is losing money? Is it just a matter of time until this situation resolves itself, or until the church starts supporting “the institution” with tithe dollars?

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  24. Bridget: Did you even read the article? The college has ethical and financial issues . . .

    I doubt the seminary will be just fine.

    Considering the information I’ve read concerning men from this seminary leading churches, none of this is surprising.

    Their enrollment will drop to almost nothing without credentialing. I wonder how many Masters students have Federal guaranteed loans or Pell Grants? . The college gets the money first no matter what happens to the student.

    Almost all public colleges have ethical problems it’s just much more insidious when they do it in the name of Jesus Christ. One place the credentialing agencies are notorious for ignoring are sports programs. Last time I checked academic empnrolled students were involved. Lol.

    It has not been unheard of for small Bible colleges to lose their credentials even after probation. They don’t have the resources to fight like public uni’s have. I always cringe when I hear of someone sending their kid off to some small bible college. They had best do their homework!

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  25. senecagriggs: Master’s seminary will be fine without Western Association accreditation.

    Nope, you are so wrong. Master’s is trying to expand out into the wild and woolly world of online learning. One of its offerings is an MBA. Nobody is going to take an MBA from Master’s if it’s unaccredited. That’s like throwing money down a rathole. Nobody will hire you with an unaccredited MBA, that’s like getting an MBA from Joe’s Bar and Grill School of Business. Why would anyone do that, when there are universities, like the one down the street from me, that offer a prestigious online MBA?

    On top of that, unaccredited schools can’t participate in student loan programs. Master’s University is not cheap at all. Students don’t have the money to pay the yearly tuition/room/board there, they rely on loans.

    Obviously, you didn’t think this through at all. Plus you obviously didn’t read the report, see that Master’s has some (not specified) financial issues along with issues of bullying of faculty, staff and students, the rape that was covered up, the nepotism (oh my, the nepotism), the lack of faculty development and the insular nature of the place. And, you know, just giving out a doctorate degree with no work is going to, at minimum, raise the eyebrows of the accrediting team.

    The regional accrediting agencies are the gold standard. Yeah, Master’s could sink to a lower level of accreditation, like TRACS, but that only works for theology. Its MBA program would be a victim.

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  26. Max,

    I can tell you those McArthur guys scare me. Just reading Pyromaniacs back during its heydays was chilling enough! They don’t take prisoners if you get my drift.

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  27. Lydia: I read it as they were hoarding money. Ex: Harvard has $37 Billion in endowments. Yes, Billion. Not only do they not need to charge tuition but they keep increasing it!

    But some animals are more equal than others.

    I would note that if the family has income of less than $65,000, the tuition at Harvard is zero. For those whose family incomes are between $65K and %150K, the tuition is 10 percent of family income.

    https://college.harvard.edu/financial-aid/how-aid-works/cost-attendance

    Of course, these are not the only expenses (room/board/insurance/books/etc). And I don’t see the Big State Us with the huge endowments (like my alma mater, the University of Texas at Austin, with a ~$25bn endowment) stepping up and cutting tuition. For the record, this has been an issue for decades, all the way back to the days when UT only had a measly $4bn endowment and tuition for undergrads was a whopping $212.50 a semester.

    So, not just a private university thing…

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  28. Muslin, fka Dee Holmes,

    I just used Harvard as one example. The issue is perpetually rising tuition despite huge endowments. Old problem that’s still around with perpetually rising tuition. That affects the 10% you mention considering high tuition costs. I use the onion as an example for entrance. Each layer represents what’s important to the schools for acceptance other than the outer layers of standardized test scores, GPA, higher level HS courses, minority quotas, gender quotas, etc (Asians are targeted at Harvard now). Most public and private also want representation from as many states and other countries as possible. The newest layer includes the first college student in the family. That one was recently amended to only one parent with an Associates degree because such students were getting harder to find.

    The big thing here now are high performance students picking 10 or so second or third tier small private schools with big endowments for negotiation. I am blown away at how well it has worked for quite a few people. For the people who are going this route it’s almost like a full-time job, traveling and lining everything up. But it results in little student debt until they move up to graduate level. My view is that the situation as it stands is untenable across the board. Whether it’s old or new. The world has changed and is changing rapidly and how we deliver education.

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  29. senecagriggs:
    MacArthur has NEVER been a part of the cultural mainstream.He never will be either.The current culture is very unhappy about this.
    __________

    Master’s seminary will be fine without Western Association accreditation.
    _______________

    I tried to count the number of books MacArthur has written.Since most of them have also been translated into Spanish, it’s pretty difficult.However, it’s at least 100 plus.If you write 100 plus books, are President of a seminary and senior pastor of a large church for 30 plus years you SHOULD have a significant income.As I understand it however, J-Mac himself lives a very non ostentatious life.Whether or not his son-in-law who appears to be the administrator of much of it is too well re-imbursed will not be my call.Koury’s responsibilities are immense.

    The highest paid president of a state “college” here is the President of the former community colleges and state vocational school system that merged 20 years ago. The former governor designed the entire merger. The President was making a Half million a year which included bonuses for enrollment —not graduation! He is basically a state employee and all the faculty/staff were made into state employees wth guaranteed state pensions. Not good. But we should expect such from big government shenanigans but not from Christians.

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  30. Jeffrey Chalmers,

    “Freedom of thought/speech is severly threaten at Big State (secular) inistutions, and has NEVER existed at these “Christian Institutions” . I have experienced it first hand…”

    You are so right. But I would add that some Christian schools were not like that. Example would be SBTS before Mohler. My many mouthy cousins, mostly female, would not have survived Mohler. Good thing they all graduated before he arrived. 🙂 A few of them have M.Divs if you can imagine that! Btw, A few years ago I was looking through profiles of therapists in my city and their credentials. There were quite a few older therapists who graduated from Southern. A few of them even listed in their profile it was before Mohler! Lol.

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  31. Lydia: A dirty little secret out there the educrats would rather taxpayers don’t know is that high performing HS students across the board are taking required credit courses online. During the school year school courses are free. And now they want to limit that it’s gotten so big. Students choose to do this so they can spend their “school” hours focused on taking more classes in their interest area. It might mean more lab time for the science kid. Or, the opportunity for the vocal performance kid to learn piano. This is bringing in a whole new paradigm concerning education. How this translates to post secondary is a huge topic right now as more and more fields move to credentialing.

    As the parent of a gifted HS sophomore, this has grabbed my interest. Can you suggest some search words or online resources so I can learn more about this issue? Especially when you said, “and now they want to limit that it’s gotten so big”. She’s the oldest of 5 kids, and we’re looking for any and all ways to limit college costs.

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  32. Just curious. Regarding the Academic Freedom concerns, would not being a YEC get you the label “lack of fit”? Do they require one to hold to a YEC belief?

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  33. I’m glad to see all this being brought to light. However, no one should underestimate Team JMac’s ability to circle the wagons. As the report indicates, The True Believers have done unethical and, at times, illegal things in the past out of loyalty to Their Brand and its leader. Network churches already put huge pressure on their parents to send their kids to TMU. Expect to see this pressure increase exponentially as a result of this report.

    I agree with Lydia. Just watch JMac start his own “accrediting” organization!

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  34. NJ,

    There isn’t much out there that is shared freely by the institutions. It’s like any huge system of systems within systems, you need to find insiders or people who have had a lot of experience navigating it to inform you. I know one parent who is planning on packaging everything she learned and researched over 2 years to sell. Good luck! The profiles will change by then.

    And when I talk about the layers of the onion —not every college is using the same layers in the same order. For example, I know of students who passed the first two layers to total perfection who were rejected by the Ivy League. The Ivy’s did not need the other characteristics of their profile whether it was gender, ethnicity or location.

    But several two tiered schools in other states were competing for these students because of the state affiliation. The one that threw in housing, won. Go figure. Another example, I have a recently retired professor cousin who did nothing but recruit international students for the last five years she spent at a certain university. The competition is global. Another friend is a provost of a large school out west who spends most of her time traveling the globe setting up online education. Another is the dean of admissions at a huge Southern school. And so on. It’s all changing. Except some legacy admissions and increasing tuition. Sad face.

    Just be sure and tell your kid that a college rejection letter doesn’t always mean what they think it means. And they never tell you the “real” reason why.

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  35. Monique,

    Yes. YEC is required. The faculty and staff are expected to be in line with the theology and teachings of MacArthur. The students are also expected to be so. That’s why network church parents who are committed to the teachings send their kids there. They know their kids won’t be challenged by non-MacArthurist opinions. We know many parents who refused to help their kids attend UCLA or USC, but they would pay for them to go to TMC.

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  36. molly245,

    “Looking forward, in a semi-sick way to seeing how they try to spin this, and how many people will believe their spin…”
    ++++++++++++

    it’s your sense of right and wrong, and how intolerable it is when ‘wrong’ continues and profits from being ‘wrong’. it shows you’re healthy in heart and mind.

    nothing sick about it.

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  37. NJ,

    Oops. I misread your comment and answered. ( just one reason why I am not Ivy League material) lol. . You were talking about high performance HS students and online classes in public schools. They want to limit it with HS credit classes because it changes not only classroom staffing requirements but the federal funding per student per credit. These kids are completing these courses at home or in computer labs at school and increasing courses in interest areas or peer tutoring classes within their interests because they are required by the state to spend so many hours per day in class. It’s a teacher union and potential gov funding problem. But we have a generation that relates to online learning for areas that do not need hands-on lab and such. E learning is a big deal in many magnet schools.

    One of the most rewarding learning experiences my oldest had in elementary school during the summer was Khan Academy’s Brain Chase. She received very specific feedback and subsequent teaching on her essay writing from teachers the Academy vets. I was shocked at how seriously they take it.

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  38. J-Mac denomination in the works?

    https://themastersfellowship.org/

    “I AM BOUND AND COMPELLED BY LOVE FOR THE TRUTH, WRITTEN AND INCARNATE. FOR ALL THOSE WHO SHARE THAT BLESSED BONDAGE AND PASSION I CALL YOU TO COME TOGETHER WITH ME IN THE MASTER’S FELLOWSHIP.” —John MacArthur

    “The Master’s Fellowship is an association of churches and church leaders affiliated with the ministries of John MacArthur. Our desire is to network like-minded pastors and churches who are faithful to the inerrant truth of biblical doctrine…benefits include inclusion of your church name/website on The Master’s Fellowship website (coming soon)”

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  39. Thanks Jenny. I recently shared with a good friend that I was not YEC. She had a hard time believing that there are church groups that use YEC as a test of orthodoxy and cause division and a “stumbling block” for so many. Here’s just one more example.

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  40. Steve,

    “For those of you thinking things are about to change I have two words: Ravi Zacharias.”
    +++++++++++++

    does that mean yes, they are going to change, or no, they are not going to change? (not good at reading between the lines this morning)

    please tell — it’s really uncomfortable flickering back and forth between anticipation and disappointment at the moment.

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  41. dee:
    Mr. Jesperson,
    I heard that he and his family members love quite well. some very nice abodes as do his family? Can anyone confirm this? I have been told this but scores of people over many years.

    Get ready for the attack dogs. There are quite a few. They may stay on the down low due to the report but….they could employ the minions and Satin (sic) and daughters of Stan (sic)approach. I look forward to watching the response.

    My Mama always warned me away from minions who come to you in satin. Especially those from a more Reformed tradition.

    I mean, I’m fine with satin really. It’s that every time I visualize small..ish Mcarthites in lingerie, I just think Mama was right.

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  42. NJ: we’re looking for any and all ways to limit college costs.

    Our family has been down the education path in more than one way now coming up on the third generation. But now there are different options some places. You will need to check locally for what is available. Some general information can be had through the HS guidance office, but we have found that rather stereotyped. But first set your mind that you will not ‘send the kid to college’. There are options here, and I hope there, in which a lot of ‘college’ can be done before there is any need to ‘send’ anybody anywhere.

    We emphasize employment as in first get a marketable trade skill for which there is work available and which can be done part time and which pays a tad more than burger flipping, accumulate some courses perhaps in ‘early college’ which we however did not pursue, and on line which is not exactly easy or particularly cheap, and a few credits can be picked up at a local community technical college but they may not be transferrable regardless of what they tell you, and never forget that wanting everything is self defeating behavior which can be a trap for adolescents.

    I started out as a nurses’ aid and ended with a short string of letters after my name and a low level job on the faculty of a medical school in radiology, having graduated from nursing and then college debt free and med school almost debt free. But nobody would have made a movie of it as a carefree life. And it took a while longer than if I had had a rich daddy. We have figured out how my oldest g’kid, an academic high performer, can just about do the same thing, but she is none too happy about it right now. So I tell her she has to be just a tough about this as she is on the volleyball court; no excuses. That is not exactly the philosophy of ‘send the kid off to college’ but it works. She is into science/math and enthralled by astronomy, so think grad school out there, so she can’t waste time or money on a college course in underwater Egyptian basket weaving, to use her grandfather’s terminology.

    If this sounds like what’s his name that does the manage your money stuff, well since I am older maybe he got it from me; just saying. So, how can ‘I’ send ‘my’ kid to college? Don’t. At least not in the rather romantic ways of yore. And don’t even think about a mortgage on the house. If people want something enough to work for it, more the better, but if not then don’t throw good money after bad; there are better ways to burn money uselessly.

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  43. ishy: It’s interesting they note the Clergy Act. That could mean they know who the perpetrator is. As we theorized earlier with Jane’s story, Masters protected him and vilified her, so he must be a relation or some famous pastor now.

    Here’s hoping the truth will come out.

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  44. Max: “The team found a pervasive culture and climate of fear, intimidation, bullying, and uncertainty among significant numbers of faculty and staff.”

    What would you expect?! After awhile, most institutions take on the personality of its leader. John MacArthur has always come across as “I’m right, you’re wrong. My way or the highway. I alone possess Biblical truth.” And the New Calvinists love him – beware, there is a MacAruthurite coming to a church near you! You can spot them – they will be toting a John MacArthur study bible.

    Max, it seems like that’s what they’re actually teaching there because the students seem to come out of the “university” quite proficient in it!

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  45. Jerome,

    The One God – Father, Son, and Holy Spirit – is conspicuously absent from said ministries. We spent two decades on Team JMac. Have no doubt that when they refer to Word and Truth they’re not talking about scripture and historic Christian orthodoxy. They mean MacArthur’s teachings. They don’t call it the MACARTHUR Study Bible for nothing. Have a look at it for yourself. MacArthur’s interpretation of the text takes up at least half of every page, sometimes more.

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  46. Lydia,

    Okay, thank you. So far we’ve come across one such potential class she would take next year, a college level U.S. history course offered through NKU. She’s already taking all AP classes this year, and that would just be part of the continuing pattern.

    Boy, there sure is a lot of homework for parents to bone up on, these days.

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  47. Jerome,

    Oh boy…that’s looking like the genesis of a new denomination, all right.

    The thing is, JMac is already pushing 80. I wonder what will happen to the empire after he dies? Things like that often don’t survive the passing of the founder, long term. Though they sometimes do, if there is a strong successor.

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  48. NJ,

    We have not had a lot of positive experience with AP no matter how high the test score. Some colleges will allow you to use them as electives. Fewer allow them toward credit pre req classes. Best to find out before application process. I was thinking they are losing a lot of money with AP? Dual credit courses are the best, IMO, but they are limited in offerings. Good luck! It’s a maze these days.

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  49. senecagriggs: If you write 100 plus books, are President of a seminary and senior pastor of a large church for 30 plus years you SHOULD have a significant income.

    Ah-ha! That explains why MacArthur hasn’t cleaned up his school. He’s just too busy with books and pastoring to be bothered!

    Of course, that doesn’t explain why he doesn’t leave the school in someone else’s hands, someone who could concentrate on bringing it up to standards. Control issues, perhaps?

    senecagriggs: Whether or not his son-in-law who appears to be the administrator of much of it is too well re-imbursed will not be my call. Koury’s responsibilities are immense.

    Apparently, so are his conflicts of interest.

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  50. NJ,

    Because of their emphasis on submission to male authority – pastors and elders in particular – JMac’s teachings are quite useful to men desiring their own “k”ingdoms, be it in their home or their church. We mistakenly thought their commitment was to Christ, so we confronted our elders about their financial shenanigans, only to get the left boot for our efforts. John’s teachings will live on as long as they help someone exercise control over someone else.

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  51. NJ: As the parent of a gifted HS sophomore, this has grabbed my interest. Can you suggest some search words or online resources so I can learn more about this issue? Especially when you said, “and now they want to limit that it’s gotten so big”. She’s the oldest of 5 kids, and we’re looking for any and all ways to limit college costs.

    You are looking for “Dual enrollment.” Where you can enroll in a similar class at a community college* and it counts for both high school and college credit. It depends on your state and your school district. Arizona, for example, has dual enrollment.

    Back in the dark ages, I placed out of eight hours of biology/zoology due to my perfect score in the sciences on the ACT. I also placed out of six hours of Spanish on a test. All these decades later, I wish I’d taken the biology and zoology just for the basis in biological education.

    * I struggled for a minute or two to come up with the name, because I went to a “junior college.”

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  52. Lydia: Not good. But we should expect such [profiteering] from big government shenanigans but not from Christians.

    On the contrary, it’s exactly what I expect from Christians under many circumstances. Whenever a local para-church congregation expands its business activities into conferring “qualifications”, marketing its CEO’s nominally-authored (whether ghost-written or not) books, and the like, I know it’s being run by a core of men (and, more rarely, women) who have discovered how to make an appearance of godliness into a means of gain.

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  53. senecagriggs: If you write 100 plus books, are President of a seminary and senior pastor of a large church for 30 plus years you SHOULD have a significant income.

    Quite so. When all three of the above are businesses committed to the making of money, and if you’ve been successful at persuading people to associate what you do with monetary value, then you’ll have risen above the masses who merely love the idea of money. You’ll be someone who truly loves money and who understands what it takes, and what has to be sacrificed, in order to gain a significant income.

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  54. Lydia,

    The government funded education racket is one of the best rackets you (generic you) can be in.
    See Lyds? Again, we have common ground, regardless of our politics.

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  55. Lydia: I always cringe when I hear of someone sending their kid off to some small bible college.

    A while back we had a babysitter (who we really liked, she was a farm kid) who had been going to a small Christian college. When she decided to transfer to a State U, her math background wasn’t sufficient for even the beginner math classes there, so she had to take additional classes at the Community College 1st!

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  56. NJ: we’re looking for any and all ways to limit college costs.

    The biggest financial assistance is available from more exclusive private colleges (as the Harvard example above, and some other schools similarly support high-level students from lower incomes).
    Or if your students are good test-takers, getting National Merit status (through PSAT and later SAT scores, if they are in the top certain % of their state scores) can mean significant support or even free ride to some colleges.
    Here is an example from University of Alabama:
    “packages iconNational Merit Finalist Package
    Value of tuition for up to five years or 10 semesters for degree-seeking undergraduate and graduate (or law) studies
    Four years of on-campus housing at regular room rate* (based on assignment by Housing and Residential Communities)
    $3,500 per year Merit Scholarship stipend for four years.**
    One-time allowance of $2,000 for use in summer research or international study (after completing one year of study at UA)
    $2,000 book scholarship ($500 per year for four years)”
    No, we’re not associated with the University, it’s just one I knew about because my son kept getting emails from them during college application time.

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  57. Lydia:
    Max,

    I can tell you those McArthur guys scare me. Just reading Pyromaniacs back during its heydays was chilling enough! They don’t take prisoners if you get my drift.

    Oh my, how right you are, Lydia. I was on the receiving end of their nastiness more than once and they took delight in piling on a person with their bullying tactics. The love of Christ was not something that was evident among this clan.

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  58. Darlene: The love of Christ was not something that was evident among this clan.

    I hate to keep circling these discussions back around to the New Calvinists. But since MacArthur has been hanging out with them at T4G and TGC conferences and the young reformers idolize him so much … “love” is not a common descriptor of their clan; “arrogance” is the first word that pops up.

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  59. Nick Bulbeck: Quite so. When all three of the above are businesses committed to the making of money, and if you’ve been successful at persuading people to associate what you do with monetary value, then you’ll have risen above the masses who merely love the idea of money. You’ll be someone who truly loves money and who understands what it takes, and what has to be sacrificed, in order to gain a significant income.

    Very insightful, Nick. As Jesus said, “truly, they have received their reward.”

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  60. Siteseer: it seems like that’s what they’re actually teaching there because the students seem to come out of the “university” quite proficient in it!

    New Calvinist wannabe-pastors are taught authoritarian patriarchal elder-rule regardless of the seminary they attend. Control, manipulation and intimidation of the sheep via a distinct clergy/laity separation comes with that territory. There is nothing Christlike about it.

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  61. Jenny,

    And of course they only train men, because Jesus would NEVER ask a woman to spread the good news of His resurrection and His victory over sin and death. Oh, wait …

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  62. Lydia: Lololol. You didn’t read the passage about Paul selling his works at a mobile Papyrus stand he set up on his journeys?

    Yes, wealthy luxury Jesus! Monetize the Message!

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  63. MacArthur lieutenant Phil Johnson popped up on the moribund Pyromaniacs blog several months ago, eager to return it to its former glory. He’s looking to recruit writers:

    http://teampyro.blogspot.com/2018/05/phils-back.html

    “So Here’s the Thing…I suddenly have the itch to write about some of these things. Not every day, of course, but from time to time—perhaps weekly or so.”

    “Dan Phillips is now blogging to a bigger audience at PJ Media, and Frank Turk is more determined than I to maintain his retirement from controversial social media. Still, I’d love to get occasional contributions from them”

    “or from others…anyone else who shares both my passion for biblical Christianity and my contempt for every effort to make the evangelical movement more politically correct. Consider this an open invitation to submit articles you think might be of interest to my readers. If you write enough blogposts that fit, I’ll give you a set of keys to the blog and make you an official PyroManiac.”

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  64. dee,
    Hi Dee. I’ve been to the MacArthur’s home once years ago. It is nice but not fancy, and is in the foothills north of L.A. so it is definitely worth over a million.

    I’ve mostly lurked and learned, especially from Max and Lydia and of course the Deebs, as I’ve been trying to shake off the effects of years in GCC and other MacArthurite churches. I really appreciate and respect you all.

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  65. readingalong,

    I’m already planning on having my daughter take the PSAT this year. Ky is an ACT state, so you have to go out of your way here to take it. Of our 5 kids however, she is the one with a real shot at National Merit finalist, if not scholar. It would mean no possibility of taking a gap year, but the payoff is significant.

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  66. Lydia,

    I’ll have to inquire of the guidance counselor about how recent grads have done with AP tests. I know back in the day those who could, took CLEP tests, sometimes getting out of their entire freshman year at college.

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  67. Muslin, fka Dee Holmes,

    Thanks. I had “credit” on the brain. But they do receive college credit. And it’s free! I don’t know what other cities do but here they are limited to 1 per semester with the local public uni and a teacher and counselor have to approve it.

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  68. Okrapod, I get your overall point. I’ve already made it clear to her that with our current level of income, plus the number of kids we have, that if she’s wanting something like an out of state art institute, she’ll have to take complete responsibility for her education. Not just the initial applications, but grants and scholarships, holding a job, making use of her God given talent, etc. Try to avoid loans if possible. We’re helping with incidental expenses, but whatever isn’t covered by the 529 plan her grandpa set up, she’s on her own.

    What I cannot do unfortunately, is recommend to her my alma mater of Cedarville. The shenanigans of the past few years up there preclude such a thing. Even if she was going into nursing, I’d still recommend her dad’s alma mater of NKU instead.

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  69. Lydia:
    Siteseer,

    Frankly that’s a problem in every public university, too.diversity of thought is discouraged or even not allowed. See Heterodox Academy. Education is at a critical juncture and our present system is untenable outside of theSTEM fields where those HS students negotiate like pros. The value for cost is a huge topic because of student loan debt. I have been surprised at how many high performance HS students are looking at alternatives.

    A dirty little secret out there the educrats would rather taxpayers don’t know is that high performing HS students across the board are taking required credit courses online. During the school year school courses are free. And now they want to limit that it’s gotten so big. Students choose to do this so they can spend their “school” hours focused on taking more classes in their interest area. It might mean more lab time for the science kid. Or, the opportunity for the vocal performance kid to learn piano.This is bringing in a whole new paradigm concerning education. How this translates to post secondary is a huge topic right now as more and more fields move to credentialing.

    Maybe you could explain what’s behind this, if “HS” means high school in your comment?

    Our local high school will not transfer credits or do placement tests. They say it’s a state requirement. It meant that when we put our homeschool student in their 10th grade, they wouldn’t do any kind of placement for math or writing skills. Not only that, but even though kid got straight As in pre-AP 10th grade classes (and was recommended to take all AP classes in 11th), kid would have to take 9th grade once finishing 12th to get a high school diploma.

    It wasn’t just us and homeschooling, either. A friend of the kid’s who just moved to the state was told their high school credits for 9th and 10th from another state wouldn’t transfer, so if they wanted a diploma they would have to take 9th and 10th “over” at the local high school. Our kid and that kid both opted for dual enrollment (finishing out school at the community college with an AA instead of high school diploma) rather than wasting time “repeating” classes they could have tested out of, if that were an option, which apparently it isn’t.

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  70. I would add money laundering it’s coming. From what I found there is a lot more money filtering through the ministries set up through sister churches to GCC. Of course this is allegedly for now.

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  71. Buttercup is adorable. May she bring you much joy. Thank you for sharing her photo and background with your readers.

    Re The Master’s University: thank you very much for posting sections of the report. As an on-site evaluator for a national accrediting agency for universities/colleges and a co-author of such reports, I find information in the report to be exactly what one would suspect from this institution. The on-site team did their job well and hats off to them. These types of reports are not easy to write. For such concerns to be named in writing, the evidence must be convincing. Now we shall see how the institution will respond…

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  72. Muff Potter,

    The system as it stands is untenable. And the delivery paradigm is changing and I don’t just mean online classes. Public Education is always the last to adopt— kicking and screaming. I always think of the young cool journalism Prof I had who declared cable would never take off —even as they were digging all over the place. Lol

    A kid could do Khan Academy k-12 and be better educated. There are tons of sites like this: https://www.wyzant.com.

    Theological education is often worse.

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  73. People were talking about being excused from some classes due to test grades. Maybe that varies from place to place. I was excused from 4 of the 5 core requirements at the university, but that did not change the number of credit hours needed for graduation or the other graduation requirements. It was more of a placement thing; I was expected to take courses in those areas-just not the basic core courses.

    I made some choices I would probably do differently now. I got excused from required history courses and to make up for it in the same division if not really the same department I substituted some philosophy courses. I really probably should have done both-history and philosophy but I dropped the ball on that one–for example.

    So, no, it was not a money saver or a time saver, just placement issues.

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  74. refugee,

    That is outrageous! The public school won’t test for grade level? I am glad you found an alternative…a clever one at that. The home schooled teens in our circle are usually artsy types doing plays, dance and travel for such. Academically, they are often way ahead of their peers.

    Note- When mine transferred to public in the 9th grade they had to take a “digital literacy” test that all out of state transfers have to take, too. It was based on antiquated technology from before they were born. So typical. My kids were like—what was that?

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  75. Lydia:
    NJ,

    We have not had a lot of positive experience with AP no matter how high the test score.Some colleges will allow you to use them as electives. Fewer allow them toward credit pre req classes. Best to find out before application process.I was thinking they are losing a lot of money with AP? Dual credit courses are the best, IMO, but they are limited in offerings. Good luck! It’s a maze these days.

    We had some good experience through the local community college dual enrollment program for high school juniors and seniors. All classes were at the college. Kid had a good counselor who emphasized working with potential choices of 4-year colleges to make sure classes and credits would be transferable if kid planned to go on to finish a 4-year BA or BS. They have some problems every year with kids who don’t listen or make the effort, I guess, and end up taking classes that won’t count toward a transfer degree.

    Best thing about dual enrollment was getting college credit/AA degree for a fraction of the price we would have paid if the kid had graduated high school and then gone on to community college.

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  76. okrapod,

    Totally agree. And worse, if the profession doesn’t pay that much it can be a life long disaster. A counselor told me of her friend, a school principal, who recently retired. Two months before his retirement he made his last student loan payment. And principals in our public system make anywhere from 150,000 to 200,000/year!

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  77. Lydia,

    I am wondering if it’s a teachers’ union or federal funding issue. They want that per-student funding for all 4 years of high school. Doesn’t matter if the student will be sitting there twiddling their thumbs because they already know the material. Bodies in seats=dollars in the system.

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  78. NJ:
    Okrapod, I get your overall point.I’ve already made it clear to her that with our current level of income, plus the number of kids we have, that if she’s wanting something like an out of state art institute, she’ll have to take complete responsibility for her education.Not just the initial applications, but grants and scholarships, holding a job, making use of her God given talent, etc.Try to avoid loans if possible.We’re helping with incidental expenses, but whatever isn’t covered by the 529 plan her grandpa set up, she’s on her own.

    What I cannot do unfortunately, is recommend to her my alma mater of Cedarville.The shenanigans of the past few years up there preclude such a thing.Even if she was going into nursing, I’d still recommend her dad’s alma mater of NKU instead.

    My sibling’s approach with kids was that they would subsidize tuition at in-state public university, and if kids wanted private school, they’d have to make up the difference with scholarships and loans. We didn’t have even that much money, so our kids have had to be more creative. (Jobs. Scholarships. Giving up on private schools and going in-state. Gap years. Etc.)

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  79. Lydia:
    Muslin, fka Dee Holmes,

    Thanks. I had “credit” on the brain. But they do receive college credit. And it’s free! I don’t know what other cities do but here they are limited to 1 per semester with the local public uni and a teacher and counselor have to approve it.

    Limited to 1 credit/course per semester?

    I love our local option: full-time (up to 15 credits per term, three terms in the year (fall-winter-spring), 90 credits for an AA degree for high school juniors and seniors who pass the qualification tests in English and math.

    I know it varies from state to state. I wish they’d had dual enrollment when I was a kid.

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  80. refugee,

    Staffing too. The e-school rooms have one certified teacher (often a coach) with 50 computers. Every class. Everything from English to Chemistry is going on. So there can be 150 students in 3 rooms -every period —taking Eschool. Even In a school of 1800 students that’s significant for staffing. There is no “classroom” instruction taking place. And eschool must be completed faster. These students love it.

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  81. Lydia: I always think of the young cool journalism Prof I had who declared cable would never take off —even as they were digging all over the place. Lol

    The most reknowned academics of Nikola Tesla’s day, wrote peer-reviewed papers by the ream on how and why his long distance method of electrical power transmission by alternating current would not work.

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  82. “Women/diversity issues: In prior WSCUC reports, TMUS’s lack of diversity in hiring and curriculum was noted.”

    Here’s the thing. If you think/teach that women are not suited for a role or that men are suited for certain roles, then own it. Don’t pretend you’re something you’re not in order for a man-made goal, even if it gets you more cash. I’m not saying that’s what going in here as I’ve barely looked into this. But if it is, please spare everyone the “we’re working on getting these female creature involved in the fullness of time” in order to score a more favorable review and academic standing. Instead, be who you are, and take what comes with that.

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  83. “Further, in conversation with members of the board, the AVT developed concern that the board’s statements of extraordinary confidence in President MacArthur have resulted in less oversight of the administration than is expected, especially in a period of significant flux as has recently occurred. Board members stated unequivocally that they could say “no” to the president, but could not identify any occasions on which they actually had done so and self-identified as President MacArthur’s closest friends in the world.”

    Hmm, less oversight occurring in a situation where an institution follows the lead of a celebrity figure tied to several week-funded concerns. What could go wrong…

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  84. “Notably, significant proportions of TMUS faculty and staff have dual relationships with institutional leaders, as many worship at GCC where President MacArthur has been the senior pastor since 1969, in addition to working at the university or seminary where he is President. Further, a number of cabinet-level leaders of TMUS are also on staff at GCC. Consequently, employees’ higher education supervisors can also be their pastoral staff member. Some interviewees noted that lives were so intertwined that, should they be dismissed or leave TMU over a substantial difference of opinion, they lost their entire support community — as a TMUS alumnus and employee as well as a congregant in Grace. They reported this was the reason for past silence on matters of concern.”

    In addition to similar echo chamber situations, what comes to mind is Serpico when all the cops on the take want him to let’s say elicit “silence on matters of concern”.

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  85. I remember waaaay back when MacArthur was young, Miles Stanford (author of The Green Letters) called him out, several times, for putting believers back under law. He was respectful and kind but clear about the error. MacArthur continued down the path he was on and we see today where it’s led.

    As far as I know, Miles never made a lot of money. He freely gave away his writings to anyone who would send to cover postage costs. All he cared about was seeing that believers were established in the faith and resting in Christ. When he was quite old and his health was failing, he learned how to use email so he could encourage believers. He would answer every email. He answered mine a couple times!

    Now MacArthur is the one who’s 80. He has a big name, a lot of money, and power in his little sphere. I wonder how it will all turn out in the end.

    http://withchrist.org/MJS/macarthur.htm

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  86. Lydia:
    So there can be 150 students in 3 rooms -every period —taking Eschool. Even In a school of 1800 students that’s significant for staffing. There is no “classroom” instruction taking place. And eschool must be completed faster. These students love it.

    My brother went to a high school like this and it was the only school he was ever really successful at. That was way before they were popular, too.

    I did a masters completely online through a state school and had a fantastic experience with that. Worked the whole time but didn’t feel like I was overwhelmed, which I often did in regular classrooms.

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  87. Rebounder: I’ve been trying to shake off the effects of years in GCC and other MacArthurite churches

    Be encouraged, Rebounder! There’s life after MacArthur! Read the red and pray for power to overcome the residue of his teachings in your life.

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  88. Siteseer: putting believers back under law

    That’s MacArthurism in a nutshell. Jesus came to set us free! There are boundaries for the Christian journey, but allow the Holy Spirit to keep you on track not the teachings and traditions of mere men.

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  89. Siteseer: Now MacArthur is the one who’s 80. He has a big name, a lot of money, and power in his little sphere. I wonder how it will all turn out in the end.

    Well, it didn’t turn out well for Robert Schuller … who had a big name, a lot of money, and power in his sphere. In the end, most of these guys end up poor, blind and naked.

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  90. JDV,

    Amen. They will probably do what the SBC is doing to check the box which is disingenuous. Might not work here, though. Wonder why SACS hasn’t put SBTS on probation for the same?

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  91. TS00: their day always arrives

    Someone once preached “You reap what you sow, more than you sow, later than you sow.”

    Legalistic religion doesn’t fit in the free church of Jesus Christ. Those who twist Scripture to put the Body of Christ back under the law preach and teach in error … and will stand in judgment for it.

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  92. Siteseer: Miles Stanford (author of The Green Letters) called him out, several times, for putting believers back under law … MacArthur continued down the path he was on and we see today where it’s led.

    I was young and now am old … I’ve never seen a Hyper-Calvinist recant.

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  93. Max,

    “Some of the biggest men in the United States, in the field of commerce and manufacture, are afraid of somebody, are afraid of something. They know that there is a power somewhere so organized, so subtle, so watchful, so interlocked, so complete, so pervasive, that they had better not speak above their breath when they speak in condemnation of it.” The New Freedom (1913), Page 5, Section I: “The Old Order Changeth”, by Dr. Thomas Woodrow Wilson the 28th President of the United States.

    He should have added to the field of commerce and manufacture, the fields of ‘p*litics and r*ligion’. Of course, Wilson might have just been a crazy c*nspiracist who didn’t understand the beauty of c*rporate c*pitalism.

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  94. Max: I was young and now am old … I’ve never seen a Hyper-Calvinist recant.

    I believe ‘Hyper-Calvinist’ is more properly ‘consistent Calvinist’. At least the ‘Hypers’ actually know, and have the guts to espouse, what the doctrines unquestionably, with much documentation, assert. Too many like to hide the truth behind layers of double-speak and euphemism, denying – with the naive pew often not even knowing – that their theology asserts that God chooses the winners and the losers; he loves and saves the former, while telling the rest, without hope of escape, to ‘Go to h*ll’. The Hypers at least try to defend their god’s monstrous cruelty – the rest simply pretend as if it is not so.

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  95. TS00,

    This is why history should be taught better in schools. This is just a short list of Woodrow Wilson’s Legacy

    Extended segregation
    Opposed to female suffrage supported Jim Crow.
    * He wrote about Anglo-Saxon racial supremacy.

    And that is just for starters

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  96. Lydia,

    Not supporting his policies. Just suggesting that perhaps he tried to explain why he – and others – often do the evils that they do. I am not defending or making excuses for anyone’s choices, but many people succumb to threats, pressure, fear, etc. and do what they would otherwise not prefer to do. I would submit that it is a small minority who are deliberately, hopelessly evil and enjoy hurting others. But maybe I just prefer to believe this is so.

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  97. Lydia: There is no “classroom” instruction taking place. And eschool must be completed faster. These students love it.

    There’s much to be said for e-learning, but what about lab work and non-digital-real-world-hands-on-experience?

    If we go (my opinion) whole hog to the digital virtual world, no matter how cleverly crafted; that’s not good either, and in the end we’ll lose yet another onion skin layer of our humanity.

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  98. TS00,

    Let me just reiterate, I am a firm ‘Sayswhosian’. I have renounced my loyalty to any man, men or traditions of men, be they p*litical, religious or other. That does not mean I am anarchist, or do not seek to listen and learn from others, but that I refuse to bow the knee to so-called earthly authorities to dictate my beliefs. Until you can prove that you control not only powerful organizations but the winds and the waves, the sun, moon and stars and the very revolutions of the earth, you have no right to dictate to me what I must believe or (ultimately) do, apart from restricting my ability to do harm to others.(And even many of those claims deserve careful examination.)

    It is my opinion that false dichotomies and the Hegelian dialectic serve only to provoke division, strife and an excuse for inaction. Claiming it is ‘the other guys” fault, all parties alike allow injustice, abuse and oppression to continue unabated. They will all stand condemned for their own choices.

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  99. Siteseer: Someone bought up the rights to Miles’ work a number of years ago and forced a lot of it to be taken offline but it’s still on the Wayback Machine.

    That was an extreme move! Fear?

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  100. None of this surprises me. If they were running an honest institution, they would not produce the kind of people they have produced over the years. The only kind of question for me was how much and what kinds of bad behavior were occurring in the institutional hierarchy. Now we know. This is sin and dishonesty at the highest level, promoted over a long time.

    If this was a public institution in California, there would have already been massive consequences, up to and including legal actions, for this kind of behavior. But because they are private, they get away with it until the institution intersects with a public entity like WASC. Those in thrall to JMac’s cult-like system will either deny or downplay it to the point of dismissing it. But make no mistake: this is a damning report by any reasonable standard.

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  101. JDV,

    “…Don’t pretend you’re something you’re not in order for a man-made goal, even if it gets you more cash.

    …please spare everyone the “we’re working on getting these female creature involved in the fullness of time” in order to score a more favorable review and academic standing. Instead, be who you are, and take what comes with that.”
    +++++++++++++++

    but that would require honesty.

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  102. Muff Potter: There’s much to be said for e-learning, but what about lab work and non-digital-real-world-hands-on-experience?

    If we go (my opinion) whole hog to the digital virtual world, no matter how cleverly crafted; that’s not good either, and in the end we’ll lose yet another onion skin layer of our humanity.

    “Whole hog” anything, IMO, is a problem. With my kids’ learning styles, at least one would have excelled in the e-school setting, and the others, not so much (their learning style is kinesthetic and social-interactive). The problem to me would be “determining” one method is superior to all and imposing lock-step learning. People do not spring from cookie cutters.

    I learned this over years of homeschooling. You’d think I would have seen the dangers of lock-step theology in our hyper-calvinist church, but I was as blind as Mohler with his “where else are they going to go?”

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  103. John,

    Two responses come to mind.
    For the first half of your comment: “By their fruits you shall know them.” Sigh. I am grieved I was so foolish as to listen to the loudest, most confident voices when our kids were young. Drowning out the still, small voice. The fruit that is ever more apparent now was not so evident then.

    We wanted so badly to believe their promise that all would be well if we followed their teachings.

    It makes me think now of the prophets (in Jeremiah’s time?) saying all would be well. Peace. Prosperity. And then the kingdom fell and the people died or were carried away into captivity.

    For the second half of your comment: Are you saying “senecagriggs” is in thrall to JMac and/or his teachings? Because that commenter’s words certainly seem to fit the bill. I’ve seen the screen name a few times but it hasn’t made an impression up until this comment thread. Knowing where a commenter puts his faith is helpful in weighing his contribution. (Faith in a man and the teachings and traditions of men is what is obviously, to me, in play here.)

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  104. refugee: I am grieved I was so foolish as to listen to the loudest, most confident voices when our kids were young. Drowning out the still, small voice. The fruit that is ever more apparent now was not so evident then.

    We wanted so badly to believe their promise that all would be well if we followed their teachings.

    Many, many of us can echo these sentiments. We were had. Manipulated. Deceived. And foolish to think that every voice that comes from a supposedly ‘christian’ source must be trustworthy. That’s why we are here, right, trying to warn others?

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  105. TS00,

    And I’ll say it again. It was upon finding others who experienced these same things that I found the courage to own my mistakes, and know that my concerns were not all in my head. There really is an enemy of our souls, and of God, who infiltrates particularly those places where people are seeking to do what is right and seeks to deceive and mislead them. In my opinion, it is not only naive, but dangerous to believe otherwise. That is why I speak up. So I thank you, and so many others, who are willing to humble themselves and admit to the lessons they had to learn, and the mistakes made along the way. We all make mistakes – it is the denial and cover up that leads to greater harm.

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  106. TS00: foolish to think that every voice that comes from a supposedly ‘christian’ source must be trustworthy

    Whew! The church just simply can’t do that anymore!! Instead, we should “not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world.”

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  107. Lydia,

    And it is cheaper and it takes the politics out of if and the teacher’s unions almost out of it and nobody has to pay retirement and benefits to retired electronic programs. It is also a way to eliminate poorly performing teachers, of which there are some, or so I hear. Isolated rural areas as well as poverty located schools would be able to offer the same quality courses as wealthier urban schools. Kids who for whatever reason cannot attend school could do it from home, and school could be offered as night classes for those who needed that.

    RE says that they have already been notified that some of this will be phased in, and special ed will be eliminated as separate instruction, though I am not sure how that will work. She as a special ed resource teacher will be looking for options when it all goes down. Already this state has changed some things relative to benefits and retirement, part of which was blocked by the court but not all.

    This has been in the works for quite a while, but just when to expect what and how much we have not been told. I have urged RE to go ahead and get another masters, this time in English, so she could teach at the local tech-they repeatedly have openings for that. It is not the best job on the planet, but she would still be in the state’s retirement system and in the state’s BlueCross insurance, and that is vital. We believe this will happen to the extent that she/we are taking active steps for her and her kids to survive when it does happen. Meanwhile, the public school system is having increased difficulty recruiting and retaining young teachers even though this is a good system, compared to some.

    So, the bigger they are the harder they fall, and public ed as we have know it may be going under-soon. I don’t know whether to laugh or cry.

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  108. Off topic but please pray for us: we moved several months ago to a new region of the country. Visited many churches, got our choice list down to two. We chose one and became regular attenders. When we felt our choice was solid we talked to leadership about membership and were assured we would be warmly welcomed. So we went forward. And while the people were warm and wanted us as members, the pastor was clear for some unnamed reason he did not. After about 6 weeks of “welcome new members” (we were not officially) from the people and cold inaction and refusal to vote by the parson, we left. Went to the other church and became regular attenders, joining a few weeks later and have absolutely loved it.

    Went to church this morning slap happy to be there. But the service was different, hard to put into words. And then came the sermon. Looks like denominational leadership has decided to “suggest” changes. Right now if all this happens our small gospel preaching hymn singing reaching out and caring everywhere we can church will be transitioned into a contemporary format and music seeker sensitive social service projects location.

    And we will be gone. I cannot tell you how hard that would be, new to a region and finding such wonderful friends there (and in our neighborhood.) But we will not go down that Purpose Drivel road again.

    Plan to contact the pastor this week and see if this is a done deal or not.

    Ya’ll pray for us.

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  109. linda,

    So sorry Linda. Not sure there is any escaping the agenda. Some say there are still ‘good churches’ out there, and there must be, but have not found them widespread in my personal experience. We spent over a year church shopping in three proximate urban areas, to no avail.

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  110. refugee,

    For the second half of your comment: Are you saying “senecagriggs” is in thrall to JMac and/or his teachings? Because that commenter’s words certainly seem to fit the bill. I’ve seen the screen name a few times but it hasn’t made an impression up until this comment thread. Knowing where a commenter puts his faith is helpful in weighing his contribution. (Faith in a man and the teachings and traditions of men is what is obviously, to me, in play here.)

    Actually, I didn’t read many of the comments before I posted mine, so this was not in response or reference to any individual person. Rather, it was based on my own experience over the years, including having a family member who has become a MacArthur devotee.

    I am familiar with the commenter you mention as I have seen his other comments here and elsewhere. Suffice to say I would not agree with his take on much of anything I’ve seen so far.

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  111. drstevej:
    Maybe an accredited Seminary with adopt the Masters-U-pups and give them a good home.

    Or we have a repeat of what happened with The King’s “University”.

    It decided to open a “branch” in DFW, and later Gateway Church ended up taking them over, relocating the whole kit and caboodle to its former home.

    Interestingly, Village Church is now looking for more space since it has outgrown its renovated grocery store. Could they end up building a new home, then move TMU into their old space? MacArthur isn’t young, his son-in-law may think Texas will be more friendly than California is, and they could also bring Chandler on staff.

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  112. GSD [Getting Stuff Done]:

    “The institution is projecting a negative change in net assets from operations for the next three years ranging from $1.3M to $385K annually. This negative change includes the release of funds to meet the operational needs of the university and seminary. The release of funds ranges from $4.1 M to $4.9M annually each year for three years. These negative changes are a result of reduced undergraduate enrollment, a tuition reset, and the reduction in auxiliary revenue.”

    Could someone translate this into English for me?Does it mean “the institution” is losing money?Is it just a matter of time until this situation resolves itself, or until the church starts supporting “the institution” with tithe dollars?

    “Negative Change in Net Assets” = “we’re losing money”. Now whether they have enough in reserve to cover it, that’s another story. But no institution, profit or non-profit, can lose money forever (unless you’re the government and can just print what you need).

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  113. GSD [Getting Stuff Done]: “The institution is projecting a negative change in net assets from operations for the next three years ranging from $1.3M to $385K annually. This negative change includes the release of funds to meet the operational needs of the university and seminary. The release of funds ranges from $4.1 M to $4.9M annually each year for three years. These negative changes are a result of reduced undergraduate enrollment, a tuition reset, and the reduction in auxiliary revenue.”

    Could someone translate this into English for me? Does it mean “the institution” is losing money? Is it just a matter of time until this situation resolves itself, or until the church starts supporting “the institution” with tithe dollars?

    If Master’s U loses its accreditation, it will likely lose most of its students. It no doubt depends on the various Stafford loans, parental loans and so on–it’s right on the masters dot edu website. Nobody is going to lend to Master’s U students if there is no regional accreditation.

    It’s doubtful there’s enough tithe money coming in to MacArthur’s church or donations to Grace To You to support a college without accreditation. And for sure programs like the online MBA would just go *poof* without accreditation.

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  114. Bridget: Siteseer: Someone bought up the rights to Miles’ work a number of years ago and forced a lot of it to be taken offline but it’s still on the Wayback Machine.

    That was an extreme move! Fear?

    Miles had a big thing for discernment and he critiqued every popular Christian teacher/author out there. There were a lot of people who would want to bury what he wrote. Agree with him or not, I think he had a right to write his opinions. Usually seemed to be the same thing- they are putting believers back under the law. The person he passed the management of his website to would never say who it was.

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  115. ION: Cricket

    There were eyebrows raised when Joe Root put India into bat after winning the toss. And indeed, India amassed a decent score on the first day before a lot of wickets – including all of England’s – tumbled on the second. England have now lost all 10 wickets in a single session three times in the last 2 years, having not done so at all in the previous 78 India are 124-2 in their second innings, a lead of almost 300, and are now certain to win the match.

    IHTIH

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  116. Siteseer,

    I’d not heard of him before you posted the link here, and I certainly can’t shed any light on who removed his output fae the interweb. I do wonder why his in particular was removed; I had a brief look at the link, and if I’m totally honest, he didn’t seem greatly different from the thousands-strong doctrine police out there who are busy exposing everyone and his dog as a heretic. The mathematical tools he used didn’t seem unusual: that is, A was influenced by B who was part of movement C whose optical mineralogy derived from D, whom nobody’s heard of but I’ll tacitly assume everyone knows is a heretic, therefore A is a heretic.

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  117. Nick Bulbeck,

    P.S. Meant to add: it might be that A is indeed a heretic, or indeed an unpleasant sociopath who loves money and power and abuses those under his control. But these sites, and this approach, prove everyone a heretic, so they don’t really shed much light.

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  118. Your comment is foolish. There are scores of colleges and universities bearing the name of its founder. So what?

    Gus:
    Who is this “Master” after whom the seminary is named? Seems to be JMac, because Jesus definitely is not.

    This is almost like Bob Jones “University”, or Oral Roberts “University”.

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  119. Doug,

    We are to love justice. There have been problems for years. I am thrilled that they are being dealt with. Too bad MacArthur didn’t do it himself. However, God has put our accreditation system in authority and they have stepped in.

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  120. Muslin, fka Dee Holmes: If Master’s U loses its accreditation, it will likely lose most of its students … Nobody is going to lend to Master’s U students if there is no regional accreditation.

    Well, that’s the way it usually works particularly in secular colleges. Unfortunately, there is a loyal cult following of MacArthur which has a network of churches that will only hire a pastor who graduated from Master’s U. There are enough MacArthurite deep-pocket donors who have bought into his teachings who will continue to bank-roll him. I figure the institution will continue cruising along for a while. Such is the spell of the cult of personality.

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  121. Mike,

    Mike…. come now.

    i think Gus’ point is that “Bob Jones University” (& the like) has all the gravitas of Joe expanding his business interests from Joe’s Diner to Joe’s University.

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  122. Doug,

    i think when justice is and has been served, even you join others in a collective sigh.

    it is a reckoning and a relief. the closer a person may be to the issue, the greater the relief. not unlike a feeling of happiness.

    turning scripture into a machine that beeps once for the right feelings and twice for the wrong feelings turns people into machines, as well. machines which operate by how they were programmed, having turned off the complex mix of God-given senses for comprehending complex things.

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  123. elastigirl: turning scripture into a machine that beeps once for the right feelings and twice for the wrong feelings turns people into machines, as well.

    I think that the Bible suffers from the same two ills as science.
    Not giving it the credence it deserves at one extreme, and making way too much of it at the other.

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  124. Max: Well, that’s the way it usually works particularly in secular colleges. Unfortunately, there is a loyal cult following of MacArthur which has a network of churches that will only hire a pastor who graduated from Master’s U.

    And don’t forget the one-two punch of Separation from the Sinful Secular World and PERSECUTION!!!!!!

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  125. Headless Unicorn Guy: don’t forget the one-two punch of Separation from the Sinful Secular World and PERSECUTION!!!!!!

    Oh, yeah, both Master’s U and ARBCA are crying “Persecution!” this week. They fail to realize they got themselves into this mess … no sinful secular world necessary.

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  126. I do appreciate your work and obviously there are internal problems at the Master’s University. But MacArthur despises tithe teachers as well as the prosperity gospel. This well documented.

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  127. dee,

    I think humans put the accreditation system in authority. I don’t see that as a bad thing. Even though humans have put bad things in authority in the past like a state Church.

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  128. Casey: MacArthur despises tithe teachers as well as the prosperity gospel

    While MacArthur draws a measly six-figure salary, various sources put his net worth around $15 million – primarily due to book sales (he has authored over 150 “master”pieces). Of course, this is chicken-feed compared to Mr. Prosperity Gospel Kenneth Copeland, who has a net worth over $1 billion.

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  129. Rebounder,

    Rebounder (and anyone else),

    I believe I’ve benefitted a lot from MacArthur’s teaching ministry through podcasts of his sermons, especially his more gospel-centric messages.

    What specifically did you have to recover from that was a result of your time at GCC? Or what specific beliefs or practices fall outside of healthy Christianity that originated directly from MacArthur’s behavior or teaching. I’m very curious to know more.

    Rupert

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  130. CONFUSING – TMS (The Master’s Seminary) is not TMU (The Master’s University). Under grades changed you are talking about TMS (not TMU) and under general “the institution” you do not state what you are talking about and after talking about TMS you roll into other things. Though they are interrelated it is one thing to say TMS is losing accreditation, and a different thing to say TMU is losing accreditation.

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  131. Max: While MacArthur draws a measly six-figure salary, various sources put his net worth around $15 million – primarily due to book sales (he has authored over 150 “master”pieces).Of course, this is chicken-feed compared to Mr. Prosperity Gospel Kenneth Copeland, who has a net worth over $1 billion.

    “If you want to make a million dollars, Start Your Own Religion.”
    — L Ron Hubbard, founder of Scientology

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  132. Nick Bulbeck,

    I don’t disagree with you, Nick. I just think it’s interesting that someone found it frustrating enough to buy up the rights then bury the material, you didn’t see that every day.

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  133. Susan:
    CONFUSING – TMS (The Master’s Seminary) is not TMU (The Master’s University). Under grades changed you are talking about TMS (not TMU) and under general “the institution” you do not state what you are talking about and after talking about TMS you roll into other things. Though they are interrelated it is one thing to say TMS is losing accreditation, and a different thing to say TMU is losing accreditation.

    The letter is addressed to TMUS, which appears to be both. Or am I missing something?

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  134. Rupert Whitebear,

    “What specifically did you have to recover from that was a result of your time at GCC? Or what specific beliefs or practices fall outside of healthy Christianity that originated directly from MacArthur’s behavior or teaching.”
    ++++++++++++

    firstly, some of the most destructive experiences of my life were in a church which self-described as “healthy christianity” (distinguishing themselves as right, correct, and superior to other churches). (took a few years to recover… well, still recovering in some ways)

    it came down to authoritarian control of human lives. tyranny with a smile.

    it wasn’t GCC, but i believe these issues apply there, as well.

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  135. elastigirl,

    I’ve been involved in three churches that I’d also describe as viewing themselves as “right, correct, and superior to other churches.” It’s the worst, and I’m still recovering, too.

    What I’m trying to wrap my head around is that MacArthur’s teaching helped me (I believe) understand salvation is by “grace alone”, “faith alone” etc… which really helped get me out of an elitist mindset, so how can he be just as elitist as the places I left?

    I have heard him say things that leave me shaking my head, specifically about theistic evolutionists being apostates (heard it twice in the same video sermon). Besides that, sometimes his tone seems a little too hardcore on periphery issues, but I would be very saddened to think that those observations were really just the tip of a bigger iceberg of dysfunction.

    I’m interested to see how they deal with the accreditation issue; so far, I haven’t heard them claiming “persecution”. Does anyone have evidence for that? I thought their statement was okay – seeking to clean it all up as quickly as they can.

    Any other info would be helpful – the more specific examples the better.

    Rupert

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  136. Rupert Whitebear: MacArthur’s teaching helped me (I believe) understand salvation is by “grace alone”, “faith alone” etc… which really helped get me out of an elitist mindset, so how can he be just as elitist as the places I left?

    It is interesting that you would suggest the teaching on grace alone and faith alone relieved you of elitism. In my experience, most who teach such things actually promote that this ‘salvation’ is for an elite special few, of which, of course, they believe themselves to be. This is a far cry from the understanding that God loves all men, desires that none perish and genuinely calls to each and every one to turn from wickedness and receive life. No elitism involved, as the gospel message is freely offered to all alike.

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  137. TS00,

    The churches I was involved in preached “Christ Plus…”. In other words, Christ plus inordinate amounts of prayer and fasting, or Christ plus frequent deliverance prayer and ministry, etc… Whoever seemed to be doing the “plus” activities the best could exalt themselves over the others and claim authority over them. Always this was the leader and the leader’s closest sycophants.

    Reformation teaching on “grace alone”, “faith alone”, etc… that I first heard from MacArthur (though obviously he is not the only pastor who preaches these doctrines) helped me remove the “plus” aspect of my Christian faith. Not that reading and studying the Bible, prayer, or fasting are bad in and of themselves, but when they are preached in such a way they become status symbols of who is the better Christian then the essential message of the gospel is obscured and ultimately lost.

    I know MacArthur preaches predestination (and does so sometimes at the expense of our own responsibilities) but there is enough textual evidence in the Bible to support predestination in at least some form. But I’ve also heard him preach that Paul’s understanding of predestination certainly didn’t hinder Paul’s love and missionary focus for people who didn’t know the gospel.

    I definitely don’t want to defend inexcusable behavior from MacArthur or his subordinates at TMU or GCC, but I’d like to read specific examples of authoritarian control or the bullying and fear written about in the letter from the accreditation board. I absolutely believe these conditions could exist at TMU or GCC, and I’m interested to learn how they manifested.

    Rupert

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  138. Rupert Whitebear,

    “I’d like to read specific examples of authoritarian control or the bullying and fear written about in the letter from the accreditation board. I absolutely believe these conditions could exist at TMU or GCC, and I’m interested to learn how they manifested.”
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    here’s something:

    http://thewartburgwatch.com/2017/09/23/janes-traumatic-rape-and-subsequent-mistreatment-by-officials-at-the-masters-college-now-university/

    http://thewartburgwatch.com/2017/09/27/who-is-rick-holland-the-college-pastor-who-counseled-jane/

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  139. Rupert Whitebear: The churches I was involved in preached “Christ Plus…” … Reformation teaching on “grace alone” …

    As has been noted several times on TWW and elsewhere, the New Calvinist movement’s emphasis on grace-grace-grace doesn’t have “Christ Enough”! Indeed, some of their tribe talk more about Calvinist icons (e.g., MacArthur) than they do about Christ from their pulpits – the Name which is to be raised above all names. There is also a popular teaching within their ranks which subordinates Christ, an unBiblical position when the whole of Scripture is considered rather than cherry-picked verses. There is a distinct difference in disciples who are produced through rigid adherence to doctrinal propositions about grace, rather than through a direct experience of Grace – an encounter with the Living Christ.

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  140. Rupert Whitebear: The churches I was involved in preached “Christ Plus…”. In other words, Christ plus inordinate amounts of prayer and fasting, or Christ plus frequent deliverance prayer and ministry, etc… Whoever seemed to be doing the “plus” activities the best could exalt themselves over the others and claim authority over them.

    Didn’t Chesterton write once that when you preach “Christ Plus…” eventually the Plus WILL take over?

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  141. Pingback: Linkathon! – Phoenix Preacher

  142. Praying or John MacArthur. He has been a great blessing to me and to the entire body of Christ. It is very sad to read so many seeming to delight in this situation rather than be on their knees praying. That in itself reveals more about the state of ‘the church’ than what I’ve read thus far about GTY and the Master’s College.

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  143. DM Casey: It is very sad to read so many seeming to delight in this situation rather than be on their knees praying

    DM, you seem to know quite a bit about al of us. How do you know we have not been praying? Secondly, the Bible says to love truth and justice. What don’t you tell all of us why we shouldn’t be glad when things that are hidden in darkness reveal themselves? Also, do we have to be on our knees praying in order for it to be effective?

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  144. Susan: CONFUSING – TMS (The Master’s Seminary) is not TMU (The Master’s University). Under grades changed you are talking about TMS (not TMU) and under general “the institution” you do not state what you are talking about and after talking about TMS you roll into other things. Though they are interrelated it is one thing to say TMS is losing accreditation, and a different thing to say TMU is losing accreditation.

    Likely the seminary is part of the university (that is, a subset of it) rather than a separate entity.

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  145. DM Casey,

    Words like “sad” and “delight” are irrelevant. Truth IS truth. There may not be much to all of this. Or there might be. How I feel about it won’t change the facts that come out.

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  146. Max: There is a distinct difference in disciples who are produced through rigid adherence to doctrinal propositions about grace, rather than through a direct experience of Grace – an encounter with the Living Christ.

    Quoteworthy!

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  147. dee: DM Casey: It is very sad to read so many seeming to delight in this situation rather than be on their knees praying

    DM, you seem to know quite a bit about al of us. How do you know we have not been praying? Secondly, the Bible says to love truth and justice. What don’t you tell all of us why we shouldn’t be glad when things that are hidden in darkness reveal themselves? Also, do we have to be on our knees praying in order for it to be effective?

    I cannot tell you how often I pray that authoritarian abuse of naive ‘believers’ be exposed and recognized for what it is. Or for innocence to never be stolen. Or injustice to never triumph. Or for oppression to no longer strangle countless people across the globe. I am not being facetious. Whereas I once truly believed that The Church had the answer, I now very, very sadly am convinced that The Church is a big part of the problem. So when I pray for evil to be stopped in its tracks – as I do daily – I no longer try to deny than the shoe of evil fits she with whom I so long danced. I pray for the downfall of all for whom the evil shoe fits.

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  148. elastigirl,

    Well, that’s pretty specific and horrifying. I can’t stand it when people who are accused of abuse say, “The allegations are wrong, and I’d tell you the real truth if only I could.” I remember CJ Mahaney said something very similar in one of his statements. What seems to happen is that the accused never actually comes out and “sets the record straight”. They simply hide behind the ad hominem argument of calling the accuser a liar and never directly address the allegations. This is why I loved it when Denhollander went after SGM with detailed and exhaustive evidence – that shut SGM up right away.

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  149. Rupert Whitebear,

    “What seems to happen is that the accused never actually comes out and “sets the record straight”. They simply hide behind the ad hominem argument of calling the accuser a liar and never directly address the allegations.”
    ++++++++++++++++

    you forgot the chin lifted high with the noble, far away look in the eyes gazing off into the distance at an angle.

    christian leaders are worse than politicians. because they do it in the name of God.

    anyone remember what helen hunt called HMOs in “As Good As It Gets’?

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  150. okrapod,

    Okrapod, didn’t you say once that you are in NC? Are you describing what’s happening with public education in NC?

    My son just returned from a year of teaching ESL in China. He wants to continue teaching, either in this country or abroad. I have been encouraging him to get a teaching job here in NC via the Alternative Path to Certification. But if the future of in-person teaching is so grim, maybe he’s better off returning to Asia. 🙁

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  151. elastigirl: you forgot the chin lifted high with the noble, far away look in the eyes gazing off into the distance at an angle.

    Gazing on the Republique of PERFECT Virtue in the far distance, beckoning from the other side of the “Regrettable But Necessary” Reign of Terror.

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  152. Rupert Whitebear: I can’t stand it when people who are accused of abuse say, “The allegations are wrong, and I’d tell you the real truth if only I could.” I remember CJ Mahaney said something very similar in one of his statements.

    Sounds like every Conspiracy Crackhead when you demand put-up-or-shut-up hard evidence.

    Ross Perot had a similar shtick in his unsuccessful 1992 third-party run for President, presenting himself as a Grandfatherly Messiah figure Who Had The Plan to Fix America(TM). When anyone tried to pin him down on details of The Plan, he’d just smile and say “Just Trust Me; when you elect me President then I’ll show you”. (The trick in that approach is to stay deliberately vague and let the audience fill in the blanks projecting their desires onto you; my parents sure did.)

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  153. DM Casey:
    Praying or John MacArthur. He has been a great blessing to me and to the entire body of Christ.It is very sad to read so many seeming to delight in this situation rather than be on their knees praying.That in itself reveals more about the state of ‘the church’ than what I’ve read thus far about GTY and the Master’s College.

    And the Truth Squad comes out of the woodwork spouting fluent Christianese.

    This happens every time TWW does an expose on a corrupt ManaGAWD or church/institution. Suddenly all these Defenders of the Faith (who have never commented on this blog before, at least under their current names) come from nowhere on Jihad against the Blasphemy. Often reciting the exact same Christianese boilerplate phrases.

    So even if you’re legit, HOW CAN WE TELL?

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  154. okrapod,

    Okrapod, you and I are neighbors. We live just north of W-S.

    Younger son did his first two college years at Forsyth Tech. Then transferred to UNCW (he turned down UNC-Chapel Hill). Today is his first day in graduate school at NC State. He has a full scholarship and assistantship. #MamaBrag

    Older son attended Bama on a near-full-ride National Merit Scholarship. (They made an offer we couldn’t refuse.) Then he did the Master’s in Management program at Wake Forest (partial scholarship). He wanted to go into market research but ended up teaching ESL in China. (Long story.) Discovered that he was born to teach. Doesn’t know whether he wants to teach here or abroad, though. If the future of teaching is as bleak as you say, though, maybe abroad is the way to go!

    Can’t believe we are neighbors!

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  155. DM Casey,

    We have been on our knees praying. God answered with this report. God will not be mocked, nor will He allow His name to be used in vain forever. Woe to the Pharisees and profiteers.

    If you really care about GCC/TMU/TMS, encourage them all to fully confess and repent.

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  156. dmp,

    Nope. Not going to fly. Conflicts of interest, self-dealing, and undue influence are serious irregularities that would be marked as such in ANY institution reviewed by ANY serious accreditation or oversight agency. There are not multiple valid perspectives on this.

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  157. Headless Unicorn Guy,

    Headless Unicorn Guy,

    that’s funny. after perot was not elected I remember NAFTA passing and millions of jobs leaving and my generation, watching lots out of work for decades. turns out…. it wasn’t theories, my generation has lived it. and the proof is in the pudding. count the jobs that left. count the increase in CEO salaries and see the dying off middle class. no….not funny. so he had big ears. he told the truth.

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  158. Mike: Your [Gus’s] comment [about a university of christianity] is foolish. There are scores of colleges and universities bearing the name of its founder. So what?

    Well, quite so. In what professional preachers like to call “the world”, while distancing themselves from it, it is common practice to name something as a monument to oneself if one is rich enough to buy it. It is quite appropriate for any founder of a religion to name his university after himself.

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  159. molly245,

    I’d call you to repentance for rejoicing in someone’s afflictions. You should pray for brethren. This goes for all of you people here. If you claim to be a Christian, we are called to pray alongside people striving to glorify God.

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  160. Marcus Wada: If you claim to be a Christian, we are called to pray alongside people striving to glorify God.

    We are called to speak the truth in love. The speaking the truth part is most often omitted.

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  161. Max: Well, it didn’t turn out well for Robert Schuller … who had a big name, a lot of money, and power in his sphere.In the end, most of these guys end up poor, blind and naked.

    And Schuller’s Crystal Cathedral is now Christ Cathedral of the Roman Catholic Diocese of Orange. Bought for pennies on the dollar at the fire sale. When Schuller retired, his heirs ran it into the ground while he was still alive.

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  162. It’s time for this made-in-America religion (Evangelicalism) to end its reign of half-assed, anti-intellectual theology. And for anyone who attends a Calvinist church, please get your pastors and elders on record as answering “Have you ever read ‘Institutes’ by Calvin?” I have never met one who has. (It’s too long and too hard. They will trust MacArthur, Piper and TGC to tell them what they should believe and teach. And then without reservation hang PhD on their name).

    As a relatively new Lutheran, I’m saddened Luther didn’t embrace the book of James. There isn’t a clearer message that partiality has no place in the church. That’s become my first and foremost standard of evaluation of any religious structure: Is there a hierarchy within which the powerful can abuse and exploit the powerless? Then it’s the kingdom of man and not of God. And are there *dual relationships*? If so, the church or religious college doesn’t even meet the minimum standards of professionalism that the heathen world adheres to.

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  163. Masters University has been a cesspool of sexual abuse and denial for years. They flaunt laws that require them to report rape and molestation charges and instead shame victims into silence.

    They publicly promise help in to entice victims to come to them for help and then accuse them of being responsible for their own abuse and rapes. They insist they have not obligation to report the crimes and think their own religiously based solutions like counseling victims in the presence of the perpetrator, and suggesting they marry them to make the crime go away, is acceptable. They expose the identities of perpetrators to victims and tell them exactly what victims have said, which sometimes leads to very personal forms of retribution against these poor victims. Want to know more, go read marcipreheim.com

    This goes right up to the highest levels, even John MacArthur who denies all involvement and knowledge about these things today, has been intimately involved with cover ups.

    These people are the king of hypocrisy, claiming to be qualified to teach Christian values while quietly lining their pockets with silver as they promote sexual abuse that would make the Catholic Church blush. They are not practicing Christians.

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