Samuel Edward Schulman, 2 years at Oxford w 0 degree, PhD Yale.:
All Oxford Bachelor’s degrees can be called Master’s degrees upon the payment of a small sum to the University. This is well known in the academic world on both sides of the Atlantic. There is some reason Ive forgotten for people residing in England to do so I think having to do with entitling one to vote on certain professorships but few do, and it is regarded as ridiculous to claim it is equivalent to a separate masters program.Many American B.A.sdo the undergraduate BA at Oxford because it is more concentrated in the subject than an American BA with a major in a subject, and one says in academia that one has done a “second BA” at Oxford or Cambridge and it is generally accepted as equivalent to an MA <<IF One Goes On to do a PhD.” This gentleman has not done so. He should have said in his CV that he got a 2nd BA at Oxford, footnoted that it is generally accepted as the equivalent of a US MA, and went on to do an actual postgraduate Masters degree program at Oxford as well. But he did not –I surmise that he paid the 25£ to get the right to call his BA an MA, and peddled his perfectly honorable and impressive 2nd BAunder the new label.

IOW, if he was honest and upfront and indicated as such in his CV, he might have still been considered for the job (albeit with much less of a chance)

Samuel Edward Schulman, 2 years at Oxford w 0 degree, PhD Yale.,

It is interesting though that the ‘source of all truth’ (Wikipedia) says this:

‘The BD at Cambridge is the highest ranking bachelor’s degree, and it is so senior that it outranks the PhD.’

Dee, there really is nothing new under the sun. To expect otherwise – why would you?

With all due respect, why should he provide you with anything? If he has satisfied the requests from his board of elders and his denominational bosses — why should he provide an internet gadfly with anything? I’d tell you to shove off…but maybe I’m missing something.

“Robert Morris claimed a “doctorate.””

Only those with earned doctorates have a right to claim such titles. It is not appropriate to use Dr. Morris for honorary degrees.

“Doesn’t everyone spin their CV in their favor?”

A person will never be more perfect on this earth than what is written in their resume.

Fred Wolterstorff,

Perhaps all of the parishioners of PSC who would like to see a formal verification of Booker’s educational claims should “shove off”, as in leave PSC.

BTW Socrates apparently accepted the role of gadfly at least according to Plato. From the Apology 30e

“For if you put me to death, you will not easily find another, who, to use a rather absurd figure, attaches himself to the city as a gadfly to a horse, which, though large and well bred, is sluggish on account of his size and needs to be aroused by stinging. I think the god fastened me upon the city in some such capacity, and I go about arousing”

I’ve heard that he does not have any of his diplomas in his church study. Why does Booker keep his diplomas out of sight? Why does he always say that he “studied at Oxford” but he seems to never explain what degrees he received? There is also something about him being in two doctoral programs but then dropping out eventually? He does seem to be hiding something important.

We are not even sure if he has the converted BA to MA. I would not assume it has been awarded unless he shows the documentation for it.

Samuel Edward Schulman, 2 years at Oxford w 0 degree, PhD Yale.: one says in academia that one has done a “second BA” at Oxford or Cambridge and it is generally accepted as equivalent to an MA <<IF One Goes On to do a PhD."

This is interesting, Samuel. Can you explain this in more detail on why listing it as a MA is acceptable if one receives a phd? Why does doing the phd change the acceptability of describing it as a masters? How does the phd change it?

Also, I have to differ with you that this nomenclature is well known in academia on both sides of the Atlantic. Only certain Oxford people seem to know about it, and only those with a phd seem to have converted their BA into MAs. I’ve know very few people in academics in the US who know anything about this topic.

Booker tricked almost all of us, and the people I know took it on face value that his MA was equivalent to a typical masters at Harvard, Fuller, or Gordon-Conwell.

As an UK citizen and Oxford graduate a few years before Mark, the only slight error made was not to show his MA with (Oxon) in brackets afterwards. Technically he doesn’t have a BA from Oxford any more. Oxford and Cambridge were founded in the 11th – 13th centuries and were the only British universities until the 19th century, they have refused to update their practices for younger institutions.
When I graduated I didn’t receive a certificate I had to apply for one at a later date and I don’t have a transcript.
In the UK it is widely accepted that all undergraduate programmes are not equal in difficultly and those at Oxford and Cambridge are some of the most difficult in the UK. In the UK where you studied can count as much to employers as the grade you got when there.
Undergraduate degrees at Oxford are split in 2 parts, the first year may be skipped by those already holding a degree, but he will have studied the same second and third year subjects as UK students writing 2-3 eassays a week during term and examined for his entire degree in a set of written exams held in a single fortnight after 2 years of study.

Fred Wolterstorff,

It’s about speaking the truth!

Jon:
As an UK citizen and Oxford graduate a few years before Mark, the only slight error made was not to show his MA with (Oxon) in brackets afterwards. Technically he doesn’t have a BA from Oxford any more. Oxford and Cambridge were founded in the 11th – 13th centuries and were the only British universities until the 19th century, they have refused to update their practices for younger institutions.

When I graduated I didn’t receive a certificate I had to apply for one at a later date and I don’t have a transcript.

In the UK it is widely accepted that all undergraduate programmes are not equal in difficultly and those at Oxford and Cambridge are some of the most difficult in the UK.

All very interesting & relevant info.

And all stuff that Mark Booker ought to have clarified by adding the appropriate (Oxon) designation in his CV in the first place. And since he didn’t bother, it’s especially something he ought to have clarified in his “I’m the victim here” late Dec 2023 letter to the congregation.

He’s good at DARVO, tho. I’ll give him that.

From the university website –
“The MSt degree is awarded on the basis of two short essays, a written examination, and a dissertation in Trinity term. These assessments may require a demonstration of linguistic competence according to your field of study. There may be an oral examination (viva voce) on your dissertation topic and wider knowledge of your field of study.” (It is a 9 month course)

There doesn’t seem to be a course “Master of Arts Theology”, certainly not a 2 year one.

And as for having an “M.A.”, the following is from Wikipedia- “In the universities of Oxford, Cambridge, and Dublin, Bachelors of Arts are promoted to the degree of Master of Arts or Master in Arts (MA) on application after six or seven years as members of the university, including years as an undergraduate. It is an academic rank indicating seniority and not an additional postgraduate qualification. Within these three universities there are in fact no postgraduate degrees which result in the postnominals ‘MA’.[1] No further examination or study is required for this promotion and it is equivalent to undergraduate degrees awarded by other universities.”
(Which would raise the question does he have a B.A.)
There are 2 year courses in Applied Theology available

Fact check: the universities of St Andrews, Glasgow and Aberdeen were founded in the 1400s, Edinburgh in the 1500s.. Marischal College was founded in 1593 and was merged into Aberdeen in 1860. Oxford and Cambridge were in the 1200s. We’re actually quite an educated bunch north of Hadrian’s Wall.

Jon,

lol! No worries. I’m not a prickly Scot, more a dour faced (but happy inside) Calvinist.

His high school was Air Academy High School, Colorado Springs (archives Colorado Springs Gazette Telegraph 22 May 1994, page 87). He was class president and had a slew of scholarships; he also played football. I note it also lists him as going to Rhodes College so this isn’t likely a case of another person with the same name.

Repeating what I found back in February. I used the wayback machine to see what Oxford’s theology department was stating in 2003:
***
https://web.archive.org/web/20030818182134/http://www.theology.ox.ac.uk/pg/pgcourse.shtml
“Another option for those who have already been awarded a first degree (in whatever subject) is to study the undergraduate Theology course as a ‘Senior Status’ student, completing the course in two years rather than the normal three. Although from the perspective of Oxford this is an undergradate[sic] course, potential students should note that the degree which eventually results from the course is an MA.”
***
(this was up until at least 2006)

This could very well mislead students. I could see one honestly putting down what he did on their CV after reading that though most would have corrected it after having the issue pointed out.

dee:
As for telling me to shove off, it doesn’t work that way. I am like a bad cold in the summer. I hang on and on.

SNORT!!! Dee, you crack me up!

My guess is that Mark is embarrassed that he got exposed for not correctly attributing how his MA was earned. You’ll never see the degree because it’ll show the BA that matriculated to a MA after paying a fee.

A commenter in another thread alleges that Mark actually failed out of his PhD program.

dee: “If he’s lying about this, what else is he lying about?” That proved to be the understatement of the decade.

As far as we know, Mark is only emotionally and spiritually abusive to some of his staff. However, would a man who conducts himself like this be limited to these behaviors? It’s not known at the moment, and I don’t want to suggest that Mark must be doing other things. I fear that one day there may be other stories that come out about him, especially if he has the carte blanche given to him by the elders.

Erp,

I agree that does appear misleading and doesn’t give the mitigation of it not being a proper MA. Non-UK students were than & are now an important source of income for UK universities, as their course fees are about 5 times higher than those for UK students.

So, I notice in PSC’s latest e-news that the elders voted in May to form a bylaws committee.

Did anyone in the congregation know that this was happening? This sounds really quite ominous, and something that’s unlikely to get the kind of attention that resigning pastors do.

Shouldn’t the congregation have voted on this, and also elect the people on the bylaws committee?

Members of the PSC bylaws committee are: David Rix (chair), Evan Burham, Julie Halvorsen, Sarah Schaffer Raux (Geoff Raux’s wife), Jim Bruce (consultant) and Herman Smith (consultant).

FWIW, I stayed away from PSC in 2017 because I was convinced that PSC violated their bylaws in the way Jeff Schuliger got shoved. It seemed to me that the bylaws meant whatever the leaders wanted them to mean.

Seems like you’d need another Special Meeting to discuss the elders’ decision to form this bylaws committee.

When does it end?

It is time to stop beating a dead horse when it comes to Mr Booker’s academic qualifications. The REAL issue is that Mr Booker has demonstrated, time and time again, that he has such severe charatological faults that render him Biblically unqualified to serve as an elder; that, on the other hand, he has the character faults of a reprobate.

It is Mr Booker’s job to demonstrate that he is qualified to serve as Senior Minister, not the job of his detractors to prove the converse. At this time, it is considered routine for someone in a high position to make his or her CV publicly available, at least on LinkedIn, but that can be on the organization’s web site. For over six months, numerous current and former members of Park Street Church have asked Mr Booker to do this. He has chosen not to comply. The only logical conclusion one can make is that Mr Booker is NOT QUALIFIED to serve as Senior Minister, that he does not have the relevant academic and work experience, OR that his relevant academic and/or work experience is tainted to the point that it demonstrates that he is UNQUALIFIED.

There is enough evidence that leads one to conclude that his ordination by the ANCA was likely in error. At that time, the ANCA did not require candidates for ordination to undergo a psycho-social evaluation conducted by a team of experts familiar with the ministry and familiar with mental health disorders / traits that are known to be problematic for ministers. One must question whether Mr Booker would pass such an evaluation, especially now, if the third party organization was aware of what’s going on at Park Street Church. It appears that the ANCA was unfamiliar with the peculiarities of Oxford (and Cambridge) theology degrees–that these colleges routinely issue courtesy upgrades of Bachelor’s Degrees to Master’s Degrees. With that, it is time to drop the Rev. from Mr Booker’s name.

The Bible does not require that ministers undergo academic training in order to become an elder. The qualifications for Elder are charatological. Mr Booker has demonstrated, through his behavior, that he is not Biblically qualified to serve as a minister; that he is actually a reprobate and MUST be shunned. The Park Street Five, Rev. Dr. Balboni, Rev. Perkins, Rev. Morrison, Dr Knight, etc. have given ample evidence demonstrating that Mr Booker is of bad character, that he is a reprobate. Why Park Street Church lay leadership refuses to deal with Mr Booker in an appropriate manner–termination with no severance package–is beyond my understanding.

Max: “Robert Morris claimed a “doctorate.””

Only those with earned doctorates have a right to claim such titles. It is not appropriate to use Dr. Morris for honorary degrees.

If it’s a ManaGAWD, always assume the Doctorate is Fake until proven otherwise.
Because it almost always is.

Fred Wolterstorff: masters

Fred,
The point is that there is a belief that he misrepresented himself to the search committee, which, as an HR person myself, I can tell you it would be grounds for immediate termination in most organizations. The issue is more to do with the use of deception to get the job, less whether or not Mark could have reasonably close to the same qualifications. Since this information is coming from within PSC, it is not just an issue for the bloggers here. It’s an issue being raised from within the congregation. After speaking with someone familiar with the Oxford system and the MDiv degrees here in the states, (also formally part of the leadership at PSC, but but whose name I cannot divulge) this was the synopsis I was given of the argument. It’s a long one:
_______________________________
His CV lists two master’s degrees, but the first of them is what Americans would call a Bachelor of Arts degree in Theology degree at Oxford.  At Oxford or Cambridge, they are very clear that “Master of Arts” is NOT a traditional MA degree as most of the world knows it. It is sometime called “a mark of seniority,” or a “status,” or a “rank.”  If you want to know his degree was, it was a Bachelor of Arts, Theology.

Basically, because he had matriculated about 6.5 years earlier, and because he applied for this change in status, and because he paid a 10 pound fee (or so), and because he was willing to attend another graduation ceremony (or was officially excused), he acquired the status of “Master of Arts.” He earned this Bachelor of Arts degree, with all the courses taught at the undergraduate level, in just two years rather than the usual three years in England, because he had earned another Bachelor’s degree earlier (at Rhodes College in the USA).

The second Master of Studies, Theology, was an actual graduate level degree which required one year to earn. He may have had one or two “taught courses,” such as we are used to, but in Britain they favor mostly research courses at the graduate level where the student teaches himself or herself through reading required books and articles and writes a major paper or dissertation. The grading is based on the quality of what he or she writes.
 
It’s concerning that no one has verified that they have actually seen either of his degrees including that Master of Arts document, to confirm the dates, etc., or to confirm that he actually got that before his application to Park Street (not that it matters because, as I say, it is NOT what Americans and even most British think of when they hear Master of Arts). I have no idea why with all the debating about this issue he has chosen not to just take a couple of photos and post them, or for that matter, provided a copy of his transcript.

He has claimed to have a near equivalent of the MDiv. He cannot have that since two of those years were courses at the undergraduate level. This matters, as I learned. I took first year Greek and first year Hebrew at Harvard. When I went to Gordon-Conwell, I decided to retake Greek because I had taken it four years earlier. The Greek at Gordon-Conwell, taught at a graduate level, was much more demanding and covered much more grammar, vocabulary, and actual translation. I did not take Hebrew over, because it was my last course at Harvard, but I soon learned that the students at Gordon-Conwell, who used the exact same textbook, covered more chapters and learned more grammar, etc.
 
This comparison does not matter, since the concern is not about the quality of his education. It is good enough. The concern is with his possibly intentionally misleading the Search Committee, and misleading all the rest of PSC, and continuing his misleading claims in that letter he wrote to the congregation in late December.

Really, all he needed to say was that he forgot to tell the search committee that the Master of Arts at Oxford is similar to what Americans would call a Bachelor of Arts. It did not require any more education, any more courses, any more exams than what he did at the undergraduate level to earn his Bachelor of Arts degree. The Master of Studies degree on his CV was a graduate level Master’s degree like we understand it.

Oxford is very clear that in their usage “Master of Arts” is not a degree. They offer many different Masters degrees, as anyone can find online, but they have never offered a “Masters of Arts” degree. What he earned was a Bachelor of Arts degree. The “Master of Arts” designation is an honorary status that means that he can vote in university elections. Oxford is clear that if a graduate lists this, they are not supposed add a subject area (like computer science or theology), because you cannot get the Master of Arts in a subject. Graduates are also not supposed to mention a “First” because even the worst students, or even a janitor who never was a student can be granted this honorary status and no one gets a better status  (a “First”) than anyone else. A “First” implies that the student or individual earned a 70% or better grade. But there is no grading for their “Master of Arts” status since there were no exams and no papers on which a grade could be computed. If the graduate wants to inform an employer of his subject area and the fact that he did very well, which Mark did (in England they do not have grade inflation like we do, a 70% is comparable to “cum laude” in America, if not “magna cum laude.” So he did well, but in his CV he mislead all Americans and 60% of all Brits! 

The problem for Mark is not a poor education. He had a great education. The problem is his character/morals. He failed at a crucial point when, supposedly, he was eager to discern, as PSC was, that the Lord was calling him to Park Street. But if the Lord wanted to call him, he would not have needed a deception to make it happen.
___________________________________

Elizabeth Klein: When does it end?

When the Pastor and elders have wrestled complete control from the congregation. By-lawsvarwcaxwaybto do this.

“Our Christian systems must ask, who is our master?

We will always protect what or whom we serve. Our thinking is that whatever we do to preserve what reigns in our life is good. We are preserving what we love.

How do we know what we love?

We know we love our systems over God, when victims of abuse come forward to speak truth are seen as the enemy — and removing or silencing or crushing them is labelled good because we have protected what we SAY is God’s — blind to the fact that doing so looks nothing like Him.”

– Diane Langberg, PhD
________________________

Watch the new PSC bylaws committee.