What is this BS that her family forgave him? If that’s true, they are as big a monster as RM.

Thanks Dee.

What the He double hockey sticks is “freedom ministry”??

Bene D: He abused Cindy for 5 years starting when she was 12.

Then she got Too Old for hm?

His ambitions seen to give him selective memory, regarding forgiveness from the family and the hell he put a child through.

Just like Alternative Facts/Alternative TRVTHs, Except CHRISTIAN(TM)!

Not shocking. This pastor helped with the coverup when his son assaulted me.

I hope Mr. Morris’s congregants have a source of information that would translate “young lady” to “12-year-old girl.”

This reminds me of the word games that were played when Judge Roy Moore was running for Senate, and it was reported that, as a man in his 30s, he had been trolling the shopping mall for girls and had sexually abused some girls.

“He liked younger women,” defenders said, when the reality was, “He preyed on young teenage girls.”

“Restoration.” To quote Inigo Montoya: “You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.”

“Restoration” clearly only means “restoration to the pulpit.”

It does not mean “restoration of the victim” to fullness of life. An offer of $25,000 in exchange for her voice is extortion, not restoration.

I wonder how many NDAs there are. And I hope those victims find a way to speak out.

She was a 12 year old CHILD, don’t try to spin us like you did Cindy, Robert Morris. You are a child predator and you DO NOT belong in any kind of church leadership position. Thank God the truth of this sicko is finally coming out. His wife Debbie should be ashamed of herself that she put the blame of her husband’s despicable acts on a 12 year old girl! He’s out his evil spin on Debbie too! He is a Narcissistic Child pedophile. Please Gateway Church, remove him for good! Jesus warned us about wolves that come in sheep clothing!

Bene D,

Robert Morris has unfinished business to attend to.

Yep: an extended stay in a federal penitentiary.

As an insider to Gateway, I have to put in my two cents. I’m no longer a member. But I was for well over ten years. That means I saw RM’s sermons week after week after week.

This was a monstrous crime which I will not defend.

Having said that, what is missing from these justified critiques is that RM has admitted to, in his 20’s, having been a monster, a sexual predator in his sermons. Not once. Not twice. But over and over and over. In Anguish. In tears. His struggles against immoral thoughts since then, the counseling he has had for years over this.

Over the years he revealed more of how bad it was— without details of course. One time we all sat in silence as he, hesitantly, timidly, but deliberately revealed — that, again, in his teens and into his twenties he preyed on emotionally *vulnerable* girls — in church.

He has spoken again and again about his anguish over his infidelity in his teens & 20’s, the counseling he’s gone through over it.

Now that the age of one of his victims is known, it is shocking.

But something told me that the nasty details would one day rise to the surface.

And here we are.

There’s no telling where this will lead.

But outsiders need to know that Gateway is home to many very broken people. People who come in racked with guilt over the awful things they’ve done in the past, people who come to make things right with others and with God. people who come to find forgiveness. Sin is terrible. Repentance from sin is necessary. But perpetual remorse over past sin that has been accounted for leads to depression and suicide.

Having a pastor who has been so open about his past is part of what has grown the church. Like the saying goes, “its a hospital for sinners, not a showcase for the saints”.

Pastor Robert I think knew that this day was coming, and he has been preparing to step down for years.

He has surrounded himself with good people so that the church would continue in his absence.

He is a gifted communicator, who was prematurely promoted very early in life into the spotlight for his ability to hold a room. This is what his wife says about him.

He crashed early in life. Bad. Everybody knows it.

Ive never known him to throw stones, because he lives in a glass house and admits it.

Just giving some perspective from the inside.

Bene D:
Good question gentlemen.
What is freedom ministry?

With the honor-shame culture of the US south, if this statement makes the pulpit, sadly there will be a standing O.

Remember the Axiom of an Honor/Shame Culture:
“If Nobody Knows of my Sin, I Am Not Shamed.”
Which easily accretes Honor Killings, i.e. “And Dead Men (or Dead Jezebels) Tell No Tales.”.

Given the extension of the statute of limitations for clergy sex abuse due to new laws, can’t a district attorney and the police open up an investigation?

FreshGrace,

“And it makes me question why God allows monsters like this to continue to blaspheme his Holy name and his precious church.”
++++++++++

perhaps God allows what people allow.

elastigirl: perhaps God allows what people allow.

Protect your pastor or your kids. Because you can’t do both. It’s one or the other. Choice.

“Choose ye this day, whom ye shall serve … ”

“As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord*.”

*Question: is that Lord Pastor or the Lord Jesus? Can’t do both. (Idolatry.)

*From Joshua 24.

from the #all-staff church message chat. Looks like an internal leak.

Thomas Miller

Hi, Gateway Staff. Some of you may be aware that a couple of blog posts and internet stories have popped up today about Pastor Robert and Gateway Church regarding something from over 35 years ago. I want to provide you with a statement from our elders and from Pastor Robert so you would know the absolute thoroughness and transparency of the situation and so that you can provide this response and context. The statement is to empower you with a response if someone inquires, not as something to proactively send out to people.

If a congregation member wants to talk further about anything, please direct them to your campus pastor. If a media outlet contacts you, please direct them to Lawrence Swicegood.

Thank you everyone.

(Elder statement)

https://ibb.co/YNsN305

Also, Leonardo Blair from The Christian Post interviewed Cindy.

https://www.christianpost.com/news/pastor-robert-morris-confesses-to-moral-failure.html

Key graph for me, refuting the Elder Statement

“The survivor made it clear to CP that Morris did not get her father’s blessing to return to ministry.

“My father never ever gave his blessing on Robert returning to ministry! My father told him he’s lucky he didn’t kill him. I am mortified that he is telling the world my dad gave his blessing! Of course, we forgive because we are called to biblically forgive those who sin against us. But that does not mean he is supposed to go on without repercussions,” she said.”

https://www.christianpost.com/news/pastor-robert-morris-confesses-to-moral-failure.html

I don’t care if the father forgave him. How does the grown-up 12-year-old girl feel about it now? I don’t care if he’s been “restored” – and I don’t believe he has “walked in purity” from that time. Has the grown-up 12-year-old girl received the counseling and support she needs? Who is paying for that? Who is taking care of HER?!?!? This horrible man did a horrible thing and he should never have been near a pulpit (or people, especially young female people) again. Always, always, let’s center the pastor, the man, his situation. Let’s be quiet about the wreckage left in the man’s wake. It’s sickening.

FreshGrace,

“And it makes me question why God allows monsters like this to continue to blaspheme his Holy name and his precious church.”
+++++++++++++++

yes, it’s thought-provoking.

my view is things like predestination & “God is in control” and “God works all things out for good” & how these things inform a religious person’s view of everything cultivate lack of personal responsibility. in its place is a sort of magical mindset.

my parents’ generation sort of had this mindset, with the ‘imminent rapture’ as a bonus un-motivator for personal responsibility.

quite frankly, i have no respect for it. on principle, but also because other people have to deal with the mess they left and pay for it.

(just like the teen agers at the skate park who leave 50 pizza boxes without a thought about who will clean it up)

rdw: (Really, though… my guess is that it’s their name for a “deliverance ministry,” which could itself warrant a lot of talk.)

“Deliverance Ministry” = LARPing being Mighty Demon Fighters in an early Frank Peretti novel.
When all you have is a Deliverance Minstry Hammer, Everything looks like Demon possession.

Bene D, if you track sermons of predators before they are exposed, you will find many have groomed their congregations to see them as victims and to praise their “vulnerability.”

It sometimes encourages victims to trust them with their own stories of victimization which gives the predator pastor even more leverage over those who trust him.

The chief identifying trait of an abuser is that they present themselves as victims. Anna Salter addresses this in her book Predators.

My guess is that Morris is admitting to molesting (though lying and revising history) so that people will be shocked but see him as being honest. This strategy is an attempt to distract people for looking for the iceberg of criminality and evil he wants to remain hidden.

Predator pastors are 24/7 about image management.

So grateful for Cindy’s courage and I can only imagine the horror for her and her family!

“In March of 1987, this situation was brought to light, and it was confessed and repented of. I submitted myself to the Elders of Shady Grove Church and the young lady’s father. They asked me to step out of ministry and receive counseling and freedom ministry, which I did. Since that time, I have walked in purity and accountability in this area,” Morris added. Christian Post article.

So Morris expects us to believe he had someone regularly asking him if he had sexually assaulted any minors again? He sounds like an idiot and Swicegood and company need to step up their PR game.

As if predators whose lives are built on deceit will be honest about their behavior! He is playing us for fools which is usually a safe bet in church scandals.

Sharon: I don’t care if he’s been “restored” – and I don’t believe he has “walked in purity” from that time.

What’s the numbers? As in how many has he done compared to how many you hear about?
That kind of kink DOESN’T go away.
Especially as the kinkee gets old- he keeps getting older and older, his Appetites stay the same age, and he can convince himself “I’m Still Young! Really! I Am! I’m Young! I’m Young! I’m Young!”

Tom Rubino:
What the He double hockey sticks is “freedom ministry”??

Found it!

https://gatewaypeople.com/freedom-ministry

Classic evangelical speak.

Get saved
Get baptized in the Holy Spirit
Get rid of the demons
Get discipled
Get with the program

Shallow, insular, assumptive, supercilious, nothing trauma informed or mental health oriented etc.

Jacob L:
I have to ask the obvious question.

Why come forward now?

Is this the obvious question? She came forward when she felt comfortable enough sharing this part of her story. And his response is him admitting guilt…

These types of question are a HUGE reason men and women never come forward after they’ve been sexually assaulted. If someone came forward 40 years later and talked about how they were robbed at gunpoint, you wouldn’t have asked this question. Please consider how hurtful this way of thinking is for a survivor, and refrain from asking questions that attempt to discredit what they’ve been through. Thank you <3

2121blessedway,

I am sorry to hear you were assaulted. Has your story been published anywhere? I would like to hear more.

Bene D,

Is this a recent admission? He’s had multiple affairs in the past. That’s old news.

Stay home Sunday, save 10 percent.

Muslin, fka Dee Holmes: A 12 YO cannot consent to sexual contact, period, end of story. That is the law in Texas.

It is the law in Oklahoma that matters since that is where they crimes took place. They were crimes then. Note there is apparently no statute of limitations now for child sex abuse crimes in Oklahoma as of a new law in 2019, but, it is not retroactive for crimes that had previously expired. He cannot be prosecuted.

elastigirl,

“…bird suddenly sh|t landing…”
++++++++++

sorry, it’s like the 2nd line of a haiku, or something…

Nothing in the American church surprises me anymore. But it’s becoming clearer why Robert Morris didn’t have a big problem with bad-boy Mark Driscoll.

BZ,

What he has not done is take responsibility for the anguish he CAUSED.

I am not impressed by his blubbering about how he feels.

If he really sorry he will do everything in his power to restore the innocent people he has harmed.

Not garner sympathy for himself.

IMO, the elders at Shady Grove Church didn’t have their spiritual heads screwed on straight when they “restored” Morris to ministry. Likewise, elders at Gateway Church don’t have their spiritual heads screwed on straight if they don’t handle this the right way. Problem is, like so many personality-driven churches, Gateway = Morris … if Morris is done, Gateway is done … and the elders know it.

dee,

Why did her parents not call the police? Why did the elders at Shady Brook or Gateway not call the police? This young woman was not protected by her parents or elders. The only person that received protection was Robert Morris.

nmgirl,

That report is false. Cindy’s father wanted to rip Robert to shreds and in no way approved of his getting back to faking as a pastor .

Kelly:
Bene D,

Henry Cloud was also therapist to Hybles and MacDonald. Just sayin…Also, you aren’t supposed to sell your books at your clients’ churches during your speaking engagements. Ethical considerations and dual relationships are not allowed by licensing boards. Unless you are Tim Clinton and the AACC and their cronies. Funny how professional guidelines are ignored in churches.

I don’t blame a therapist for his/her clients not doing the work of healing like MacDonald, McCloud is a celebrity therapist who I suspect has a fair number of narcissists etc. as clients. Functional and well people don’t seek out a psychologist.

Robert Morris has his website all set up. His media ministries, give button, merch…if he steps down because he has been exposed as an abuser, he is ready to rumble and his son is set up to take over as lead pastor at the church.

Muslin, fka Dee Holmes,

Actually he CAN be prosecuted in Texas because the laws have changed since she initially tried. She can contact the district attorney tomorrow if she’d like because There is no statute of limitations for indecency with a child or for the sexual assault of a child in Texas. Therefore, Robert Morris CAN be prosecuted for either crime at any time, regardless of how long it has been since the event.

People, run don’t walk away from ‘churches’…..you do not need a preacher, pastor or priest to tell you about God. That should be, and is, a ‘do it yourself’ project. You don’t need to sit in a fancy church building to find God…..just go out in Nature and admire the world God created. Love people, don’t hate them. Experience your life NOW, don’t ‘wait to be happy’ in some future Heaven. This is IT, folks!

Jacob L,

I’ll state what isn’t obvious from Cindy’s story. She “came forward” several times in years past to Christian “leaders” asking for help. Nobody would help her. These leaders encouraged her to forgive and keep her story quiet, refusing to take steps to hold the Pastor Morris accountable. She finally told her story to a Christian pastor who knew that she was strong, could handle the forthcoming and expected questions like yours, and silence was to be complicit in the cover up. The letter sent out from Gateway neglected to mention the child was 12 when the abuse began, that Robert was married, was preaching the gospel for pay (youth revivals), and continued the sexual abuse with “the young lady” for nearly half a decade. This isn’t moral indiscretion. This is statutory rape of a minor, punishable by up to 30 years in prison. The Apostle Peter said judgment must begin in the house of God. It should remembered that people who love Jesus and His church guided Cindy on how to ensure future perps in the pulpit are be stopped dead in their tracks when even a treatorous thought of predatory behavior enters their heads. They’ll remember what happened to Robert Morris. Sexual predatory behaviors by church leaders carry a stench that no amount of incense or success can erase. Be sure. Your sins will find you out.

Jacob L: I have to ask the obvious question.
Why come forward now?

Hey Jacob, you know that tutor you had who unsuccessfully attempted to help you pass your G.E.D.? The same guy who told you there are no stupid questions?
He was wrong.

Dee, do you think Robert Morris should be sent to prison? A serious question. Sen

elastigirl,

I am not surprised at all by your story…. Your response to your abuse makes complete sense to me…. Especially your willingness to call out BS by others in your extended family circle, and the having more bird pop thrown at you…..

Wade Burleson,

Preach it!!

BZ,

I appreciate your willingness to comment here and offer an insider’s perspective on Gateway, and on Morris. However, I feel the need to push back on some of the things you’ve said.

If you truly think that Morris has been some kind of shining example of vulnerability and humility during his career, then I think you’ve been had. I’m fairly certain that it’s all been an act, to groom you and other congregants into believing that he’s someone who’s repentant and fully made amends.

If Morris had truly repented of his crimes against this girl, he’d have confessed to the cops and gone to prison. And if he’d fully intended to be transparent with his congregants, he wouldn’t have shaded the truth about his felonies all these years.

You say he’s seen this day coming, and has been preparing to step down? Why didn’t he do it ages ago? Didn’t he realize that his crimes against one of Jesus’ little ones had disqualified him?

As for ‘surrounding himself with good people’, I don’t buy that for a moment. ‘Good people’ wouldn’t be minimizing his crimes, or allowing him to put out such a self-serving and misleading statement to congregants who need the truth.

One more thing. You said, “it’s a hospital for sinners, not a showcase for the saints”. Well, that’s a lovely saying.

So what is Gateway Church for (alleged) felons like Morris? A den of thieves?

Bro. Wade–AMEN and thank you!

Bene D: his son is set up to take over as lead pastor at the church

I know Scripture says “The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father” … but in this case, Gateway should seriously reconsider their pulpit transition plan.

BZ: “its a hospital for sinners, not a showcase for the saints”

Overworked Christianese which just doesn’t cut it in this case, BZ! Sinful pulpits take advantage of trusting pews … Morris has for decades!

BZ: He has surrounded himself with good people

Scripture says “There are none good, no not one” … Christendom was shocked to learn that one of their best has just not been that good. What do we really know about the yes-men who have surrounded him, who have already jumped to defend him, who most likely knew the details of his abuse to a young child, who protected him for decades as Gateway and Morris grew to mega-status … as he prospered while his victim grieved and struggled through life?

Eyewitness: An offer of $25,000 in exchange for her voice is extortion, not restoration.

… an offer from someone whose net worth is in the millions … an amount that is just a small fraction of tithes and offerings gathered each Sunday at mega-Gateway.

Jacob L,

Why continue to hide this crime?
In her own words, the woman wanted help with the expenses of the counseling she went through.
Instead of sensitivity, she was met with an NDA and a pitance was offered.

BZ,

But he has not been ‘so open’ about his past. He still isn’t – by calling her a young lady, and saying that the father and family forgave him. He may have known it was coming for a long time, but he should have stepped away and told the truth many years ago.

Roger Hollister,

rAmen!

2121blessedway,

That needs to be reported!

To the back then young teenager and woman now:
Your experience of shame and betrayal with someone you looked up to trusted and admired was painful. Those memories remain even if you’ve forgiven. I pray that God washes away the pain of those memories and replaces them with His love mercy healing and restoration of your soul. I also pray healing and prosperity to your soul and body.

To Roberts wife, Debbie: Your experience of betrayal and infidelity was painful and it’s a miracle and by the grace of God that your marriage was restored and healing took place. I pray for God’s continual mercy and power in you and your marriage. These experiences must have tested and strengthened the 3-cord relationship between God, you, Robert.

To Robert: We all know you were wrong and guilty. I’m sure your charisma and zeal for the Lord brought you before other leaders to lead. But in your early 20’s, its apparent you were an immature Christian and had personal areas that hadn’t been freed. Anyone in their young 20’s needs discipling and maturing before being put in leadership even when God has anointed them for ministry. Male frontal brains don’t even fully mature until their later 20’s. This must’ve been a shameful and humbling experience for a person with charisma, an anointing to minister and gifts from God. This experience would cause one to remain humble and always continuing to look to Jesus as their source. One who is aware of being forgiven much loves much. One who becomes aware of ones own weakness relies more on God. Many lives have been reached for Jesus over the decades since your early 20’s as you continued to minister. I pray that Christ in you continues to keep you humble and continues you in the path God has for you with all His Grace and Power.

Jeffrey Chalmers: A 12 YEAR OLD GIRL?….

“If kids got raped by clowns as often as they get raped by preachers, it would be against the law to take your kids to the circus.”

Attributed to @fakedansavage with a link to the Christian Post article about Robert Morris’ “confession” of his Oops moral slip caused by a “flirtatious” “young lady” way back in the day BEFORE the good pastor’s restoration to be the man of God he truly is.

In other words, whatever just “happened” back then with that “flirtatious” “young lady” is “not who I really am,” as they say. “I am not THAT guy.”

https://baptistnews.com/article/breaking-news-paul-pressler-died-and-the-sbc-said-nothing/

Did any speakers at gateway mention this today?

Ava Aaronson: Meanwhile the churchfolk forked over $117M and counting for this?

Everyone who backs up the predator preacher pedophile, either in mouth or money, is complicit. $117M is a whole boatload of complicit underlings bankrolling a monster criminal who violates children and silences the ones who come forward with NDAs.

The monster’s boat is afloat, full sail. Let that truth “sink” in, bankrollers and boat rowers, who are the ones keeping this enterprise buoyed and in business. They own this.

The predator preacher pedophile’s tithers pay for the NDAs and pricey legal counsel to SILENCE TRUTH and REALITY – who this guy really is and what he is about.

Tithers can’t get their money back. Tithers could learn a lesson from this.

BZ,

he teaches a form of prosperity gospel in that God requires us to ties and only then will we be blessed

Erp: That is the law now but what was the law back in 1987?

Haven’t church leaders always been mandated reporters everywhere? … just as teachers and doctors?

dee: I worry when a few people look for anything to justify Robert Morris’ behavior. I am grateful that some Gateway folks are getting this.

I truly feel sorry for the good folks at Gateway who are faced with this. Many who comment here have felt the sting of deception, disappointment and disillusionment. They know what it’s like to experience the shock of such news, to learn of a pastor’s moral failure and a victim’s struggle. May God help Gateway membership through this difficult time in the days ahead.

Put him out of ministry.prosecute him.

Max: May God help Gateway membership through this difficult time in the days ahead.

Oh, God will help, and it’s not “difficult”. Good grief. Whining much?

Difficult would describe the experience of the ones who were victimized and survived. (They don’t always survive.)

The question, for any and all church engagement, is always: Whom shall I serve? Lord Pastor or the Lord Jesus.

The book of Acts is full of snake oil salesmen. A step further, the religious leaders of Jesus’ day executed the Son of God!

If we as churchfolk don’t seriously consider whom and what we follow, we are no better than the executioners of our Lord!

That’s not “difficult”, oh poor pitiful us. It’s reality. It’s our God-given agency. It’s on us. We’re adults making adult decisions, for goodness sake.

The 12 year old attacked by the godman monster for FOUR years in her own bed in her own home – that’s difficult and outrageous.

Churchfolk, grow up! Make good adult Christian decisions. When you fail, own it, and like Zacchaeus, thank Jesus for forgiveness AND repay & make right by those offended.

Not difficult. Jesus died on the Cross for this. Jesus did the hard part so stop whining.

I think we can safely conclude that Morris’s mega-church-honcho days are drawing to a close.

Max,

Next best option for Gateway Church;

1. Robert Morris resigns immediately.

2. Gateway elders all resign.

3. James Morris is deselected as next Gateway Pastor. Nepotism here is out of order.

4. New experienced Pastor & elders board are put in place ASAP.

5. Gateway church is saved & moves forward.

Muff Potter:
I think we can safely conclude that Morris’s mega-church-honcho days are drawing to a close.

And walks away with $117M. Call that repentance and restoration?

Are we going to see comments about his poor wife, family, kids, etc.? So “difficult” for them, confused and unaware with their disillusionment…

BZ,

BZ: I believe Gateway will be in for more heartache in the future.

I meant to put that in block quotes.
BZ,

BZ: not that big of an insider, but the people I know on staff personally are good people.

Some don’t agree.

From @SouthlakeIndep1:

“The ‘elders’ in this church, here in my hometown, have said they all knew about it. They have praised the child rapist Robert Morris for his ‘transparency.’

“And they still want people to treat them like a respectable institution.”

There are also a number of tweets about Morris building his fortune based on the false Prosperty Teaching of give your tithes to guarantee your blessing from God. Unfortunately, in all that give-to-get theology, it’s only Morris that ends up with $117M, off of THEIR giving due to his false teaching.

Will Morris repent, correct his teaching and give it back? Zacchaeus repented and gave back 4x what he had falsely collected. Zacchaeus also served Jesus dinner at his house.

Bene D:
from the #all-staff church message chat. Looks like an internal leak.

Thomas Miller

Hi, Gateway Staff. Some of you may be aware that a couple of blog posts and internet stories have popped up today about Pastor Robert and Gateway Church regarding something from over 35 years ago. I want to provide you with a statement from our elders and from Pastor Robert so you would know the absolute thoroughness and transparency of the situation and so that you can provide this response and context. The statement is to empower you with a response if someone inquires, not as something to proactively send out to people.

If a congregation member wants to talk further about anything, please direct them to your campus pastor. If a media outlet contacts you, please direct them to Lawrence Swicegood.

Thank you everyone.

(Elder statement)

https://ibb.co/YNsN305

Also, Leonardo Blair from The Christian Post interviewed Cindy.

https://www.christianpost.com/news/pastor-robert-morris-confesses-to-moral-failure.html

Key graph for me, refuting the Elder Statement

“The survivor made it clear to CP that Morris did not get her father’s blessing to return to ministry.

“My father never ever gave his blessing on Robert returning to ministry! My father told him he’s lucky he didn’t kill him. I am mortified that he is telling the world my dad gave his blessing! Of course, we forgive because we are called to biblically forgive those who sin against us. But that does not mean he is supposed to go on without repercussions,” she said.”

https://www.christianpost.com/news/pastor-robert-morris-confesses-to-moral-failure.html

Are you serious! No one needs to direct their post or comment to the church! This Church is insane! If I’m a member I don’t need to direct my comments to you or God!

BZ: I have to admit that all of this is pretty painful for me on so many levels. Facing facts is not easy. I have a lot to process. Best if I bow out for now.

Thousands of Morris followers are experiencing the same thing today, BZ. That is the problem when a church is built around celebrity personality. When celebrities fail, their followers agonize. I wish the best for you in the days ahead.

Mark,

Agreed. You describe the only path forward to salvage the various ministries at Gateway – it’s scope is mega indeed. More than 100,000 people attend at multiple campuses each weekend; some will still worship Morris no matter what – others will want to see prompt actions that are pleasing to God. But, as I mentioned earlier, Gateway = Morris … it will be tough moving on from here. In the past, when the name Gateway Church was dropped in Christendom, most immediately thought Morris, not Jesus … and that never works for a ministry over the long run.

Grant Jackson: He’s walked in purity??

How does anyone know that for sure? Because Pastor told them that?

Max,

Yup….
Like scorning the “12 year old girl”, by calling her a “young lady”…. Excuse me as I throw up…. And wish my “you know what” went all over the “church leaders” that called her a “young lady”….

And these clowns, including all the SBC leadership that is now ignoring Paul Pressler’s death, EXPECT me to listen/respect them!!!!

Eyewitness: early teens

I meant to type “early twenties,” not “teens.” Big difference. 13 is “early teens” and they are essentially peers. A 12 year old is not the peer of a man in his 20s.

Muff Potter: I think we can safely conclude that Morris’s mega-church-honcho days are drawing to a close.

… or perhaps only a brief intermission before the actor returns to stage to a standing ovation?

Muslin, fka Dee Holmes,

I’m not sure there is a statute of limitations on these admitted crimes.

Max: Haven’t church leaders always been mandated reporters everywhere? … just as teachers and doctors?

Nope. Doing some brief hunting but at least in the US the first mandated reporting laws started in 1963 and by 1967 all 50 states had some sort of law though each state has its own law. Physicians were the first group to become mandated reporters. A few states went for all being mandated reporters. Other groups added on later were nurses, teachers, police officers, social workers. In many states clergy did not become mandated reporters until much later (e.g., 2003 for Massachusetts after the Boston Globe reported issues in the local Roman Catholic diocese).
However Oklahoma as of 1978 does seem to have been one which listed various profession and then included all other people

Leonard G. Brown III & Kevin Gallagher, Mandatory Reporting of Abuse: A Historical Perspective on the Evolution of States’ Current Mandatory Reporting Laws with a Review of the Laws in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, 59 Vill. L. Rev. Tolle Lege 37 (2014).
Available at: https://digitalcommons.law.villanova.edu/vlr/vol59/iss6/5

also
Brian G. Fraser, A Glance at the Past, a Gaze at the Present, a Glimpse at the Future: A Critical Analysis of the Development of Child Abuse Reporting Statutes, 54 Chi.-Kent L. Rev. 641 (1978).
Available at: https://scholarship.kentlaw.iit.edu/cklawreview/vol54/iss3/3

nmgirl:
What is this BS that her family forgave him? If that’s true, they are as big a monster as RM.

Please note the Statute of limitations has changed in TX. In 2023 Biden signed Bill S 3103. The Texas legislature has ameded our statute of limitations for the continuous sexual abuse of a child under 14 yo. ZERO statute of limitations for criminal charges and ZERO statute of limitations for a civil suit. I am Caroline Feherty Educator BA and licensed Victims Advocate CA. Please bring this important information to victims and their families. You can find me on LinkedIn.

Ava Aaronson,

Ava, I believe that in every church there are good-hearted, Jesus-loving believers who have been truly deceived by church leaders. Jesus warned this would happen. The Wartburg Watch is populated by lots of them who have come out of a church mess, who comment here from their personal experiences to inform and warn others. I suspect that we will have Gateway ex-members rise up to add their voices to the discussion going on about the condition of the American church. The Done ranks are growing in leaps and bounds … done with wayward ministers and ministers, but not done with Jesus. I pray for them.

I appreciate your comments here and agree with you more than not.

King David not only Committed Adultery but Killed the woman’s husband , and then married her and bore a child with her. But he is a man after Gods heart today. The lesson here is that he repented and publicly and the deed was made supper public ; like everyone reads about King David and Bathsheba. Bathsheba bore King Solomon who became the Lineage of Our Savior Jesus. I think Pastor Roberts problem is the shame and public disgrace. There is no other way it has to happen. Admitting publicly and honestly disarms the devil and really show real repentance like David, and in the end God makes something really good out of a bad situation. It is not easy. He can still do it now. No sin committed by whom ever is too bad. This is Exactly why Jesus died. cut the man some slack.

BZ,

Not once does he mention his concern for Cindy, then or now. She has had to live with this devastating hurt her whole life, from childhood to adulthood. He tries to massage the truth by saying she’s a young lady, He thinks it will go down better that way. No, she was a child. And if all this is true, Robert Morris is a child molester and should be designated as a sexual offender.

Tom Rubino,

Freedom Ministry is a distinct type 9f deep counseling designed to help the person gain freedom feom their issues. It involves dealing with past traumas, hurts and issues that keep hold on a person. There are well respected people (Neil Anderson) and others who have written books and do counseling themselves. It also may involve freedom from the occultand/or demonic involvement. (I have been theough this type of counseling and it is very effective)

David: No sin committed by whom ever is too bad. This is Exactly why Jesus died. cut the man some slack.

Read Matthew 7

David:

Women and children had no agency in the old testament, they were property.

Yes, David repented and lived with the consequences.
He lost four children. He lost the respect of his people. He lost his reputation.
As part of his repentance, Bathsheba was put under his protection.

Prince Andrew has faced severe consequences for his ties to Jeffrey Epstein, and his brother is imposing more. His bloodline to the royal family remains, but you won’t see him stepping back onto US territory or publicly performing a royal responsibility ever again.
He has lost his reputation, the respect of his people.

Bathsheba was an adult/married woman who was raped.
She had no rights to say no to a king, even men didn’t.

Cindy was 12 years old. No law in the USA or the worlds other 194 countries allow the sexual abuse of children, though age of consent and enforcement varies.

In the 21st century we understand the consequences of child sexual abuse to the individual, families and society.

Morris can repent, Jesus died for him, and the new testament is pretty clear about remaining in leadership.
There are consequences to sin, and to breaking US law, he is facing public disgrace for a reason.

What slack should he be cut?

Here is an article that needs to be shared. It gives first-hand info about survivor, Cindy:

https://istoriaministries.com/robert-morris/

Max: I believe that in every church there are good-hearted, Jesus-loving believers who have been truly deceived by church leaders.

Really? Why?

So all of these pedophile predator preachers are supported and bankrolled in our pulpits because God never warned and informed His Jesus loving people that something is off in the leadership?

Fact: you don’t know what goes on in all churches and neither do I.

But we do know that Jesus said those who love Him, hear Him, listen to His voice and follow Him, not the wolves in Shepherd’s attire.

To claim churchfolk are neither warned nor informed by God is selling God, God’s Word, and God’s Holy Spirit short.

Are there mega churches thoroughly corrupt as Sodom and Gomorah or the other cities God destroyed? Maybe. Do we ASSUME somewhere in the fold are buried some hidden Jesus-loving-listening people just because they call themselves a church? Maybe you do that. Not I. James 1 warns of the hypocrisy of asking for wisdom yet with doublemindedness not applying it. Evil. Double minded.

Neither you nor I know what churchfolk witness and how God informs and warns.

“Good-hearted Jesus loving people”
1. Know their Lord’s voice.
2. Are spoken to by God Himself.

Pewsitters and offering plate fillers supporting Lord Pastor the Scoundrel instead of listening to our Lord Jesus are THE PROBLEM here, too.

No pity party at Pentecost for their part in putting Jesus on the cross. Peter, following his own repentance for his cowardice, called them out to repent, too. Then the Holy Spirit entered so God’s law is written on men’s hearts.

The mercy is in the opportunity to repent and do the Zacchaeus 180. NOT in the denial of what went wrong, which is foolishness and fruitlessness. The tree planted in a pile of the garbage of denial will die, fruitless.

Granted, a person can visit a church in seeking. But $117M is not amassed by casual visitors.

And to quote your assumptions about churchfolk, “goodhearted Jesus-loving people” are neither casual nor uninformed. Anyone loving Jesus with a good heart is filled with God’s Spirit and in communication with God Himself. No excuses, no middle ground. Either the real deal or just another fake on a fast train to nowhere playing the church game with their scoundrel Dear Leader.

Jesus loves us and when we love Him back, He informs and warns us. The Holy Spirit, as promised, is our Guide and Comforter.

Church clubbers neither love nor serve Jesus, although they may have a good look. Good luck with that, come The Day.

Our spiritual standing before God, though always in formation until we meet Him in Eternity, is never neutral.

Back in the day, as a young professional, I was asked to testify in a child abuse DOJ court case. So were several church leaders. A pastor turned it down, as did a church board member. Both said they don’t get involved in such things. They both either had a repentance come to Jesus moment thereafter or they are in hell. Neither “loved Jesus” nor were they “good-hearted.” It’s that simple.

The “good-hearted Jesus lovers” in predatory scoundrel churches are not hiding out. They don’t exist.

Riley,

No. There is nothing defamatory about saying someone forgave you.

Bene D: I don’t see him as an abuse survivor, or overcomer, I see him as an abuse victim.

Thank you for your comment.

Im not sure I understand this sentence. Could you clarify? If you don’t mind?

Amy: I figured the immorality was with an adult, and yes, he was always repentant.

If you assumed that his victim was an adult, then he deceived you. All of you. For years. And if Morris was in the habit of deceiving you about his past, then he wasn’t repentant.

To me, repentance for having committed a felony means turning oneself in to the authorities, and going to prison. Robert Morris did none of those things.

Like I said to BZ earlier, you’ve been had.

Amy: It’s tragic that he and no one else who surrounded him could see that keeping the extremely important detail of the age of the girl unknown, would eventually turn into this.

“This” was a crime, punishable by prison time, had this been properly handled at the time of the abuse. A reminder for every victim of sexual abuse by a church leader: “Don’t call the church office. Call 911!”

Bridget:
Max,

He abused a twelve year old. He should be in prison.

“DUDE! YOU! HAVE! SEX! WITH! CHILDREN!”
— South Park, “Cartman joins NAMBLA” episode, ending scene, Stan responding to every explanation and justification the NAMBLAns trot out

Nancy2(aka Kevlar): “the sword never left the the house of David”.

i.e. David had set a chain of events in motion that destroyed his lineage over time.
(The real meaning of those “Generational Curses” the Spiritual Warrior MOMMs bandy around.)

Given his long history of health issues (he had THREE major surgeries last year alone, including open heart surgery), this is how things MAY play out:

1. Morris never preaches during the summer. He always takes off and either has underlings do the sermons or lines up guest speakers. This is when he does his family vacations (and gets them paid for by lining up guest speaker opportunities for himself). So, him not preaching this summer isn’t unusual.
2. BUT, given his history of health issues and recent events, he may decide to step down (claiming it to be “for the good of Gateway Church”, and likely will use his health as the “official reason”). His middle child, James, has in recent years been taking more of the leadership reins, and probably will be named his successor. (To my knowledge, James doesn’t have any dirt on him, which may keep some of the members from bailing out.)

jerry quigg: even he says there was no penetration.

So no Tab A in Slot B, so that makes it OK in the Eyes of God.
WHERE HAVE WE HEARD THAT ONE BEFORE?
Remember Douggie ESQUIRE of Vision Forum and his favorite Act upon his Handmaid?
Falwell Junior instructing Pool Boy to do any act EXCEPT that One so he could watch?
“Christian Side Hug” (“Non-Genital Sex done to preserve Technical Virginity”) according to an online slang dictionary – the subject of the Garfunkel & Oates song “Loophole”?

Max: Here we go again, dragging King David into a church mess! David was in the military, not the ministry. He was a king … not a prophet, priest, or pastor.

And the type of man who achieves fame and success in public — and has no clue whatsoever about how to be a husband and/or father in private.

And the harem polygyny expected of Kings in Semitic tribal culture sure didn’t help.

Mark R: Not wanting to make this political, but the trend toward extending statute of limitations on sexual assault has historically taken place only in “blue” states.Oklahoma is a deep “red” state and likely hasn’t changed its laws at all.

I am not surprised, given the Bible Belt and the “Good Old Boy Network” and how close “Christians” are with the local and state GOP politicians. The Duggers being one famous example. You have a better chance of being groomed and molested in an Evangelical church than at a Drag Queen story hour. And the sex trafficking ring is more likely to be in the basement of a church than a pizza restaurant.

Headless Unicorn Guy: i.e. David had set a chain of events in motion that destroyed his lineage over time.
(The real meaning of those “Generational Curses” the Spiritual Warrior MOMMs bandy around.)

And that also ties to Karma, “What goes around comes around”, etc. And the Law of Unintended Consequences.

dee: I am not posting the comments I received claiming the victim is in this for the money.

It continues to amaze me that loyal followers of cults of personality rally to the side of an abuser, but seldom to the side of victims. Another symptom of an American church and churchgoers who just don’t get it.

Max: It continues to amaze me that loyal followers of cults of personality rally to the side of an abuser, but seldom to the side of victims.

Sunk Cost Fallacy, AKA The Con Man’s Friend.
A form of Grooming where the con man gets the suckers so Emotionally invested in the con that they not only won’t back out, they CAN’T back out. Because backing out means admitting to themselves (and those around them) that they fell for the con.

Sometimes (as in the “Hears of Francis Drake” con some 80-100 years ago) the suckers get so invested they will defend and support the con and the con man with all their being.

Max: Commonly known as “sabbaticals” in much of Christendom … time away to get visions and a great tan.

Don’t forget the Angel Encounter at a gas station in rural Wyoming, where the incognito Angel prophesies/commands your Return to Ministry (with Standing Ovation from all the Hosts of Heaven).

Does anyone know if James Robison has commented on this yet?

Max,

I wouldn’t disagree that it’s not a good idea, but likely that’s what happens. Dr. Ed Young retired and had his son take over. Same with Joel Osteen taking over after his dad dies.

Jacob L:
I have to ask the obvious question.

Why come forward now?

This is what throws me off about the whole incident.

I can understand the delay between the 1980s and 2005 (when she first asked Gateway for compensation – and $50K is nominal compared to their wealth, since 2005 was shortly after The Blessed Life became a best-seller and vaulted Morris into prominence). Trauma affects people differently. So, she may not have felt like she could come forward when things happened.

But what about between 2005 and now? That’s a NINETEEN-year gap. Why not go public after her offer was rejected? Maybe Morris doesn’t become the superstar preacher/speaker he is now if this comes out. This is why some folks may be questioning her motives.

Or has she been trying to tell her story all this time, only to be ignored until now?

Max,

That’s the term they use (and I’ve heard it elsewhere).

dee:
I am not posting the comments I received claiming the victim is in this for the money.
Once again, these folks are demonstrating their lack of Biblical knowledge along with a view of child sex abuse that is mired in the early 1900s. Until such folks indicate that they have studied how victims of sexual abuse process and come forward with their abuse (usually 20-40 years later, then these comments will not be approved.
Thankfully, the vast majority of commenters get it.

Thank you for reiterating this.

Let me make clear that I absolutely get this.
In more ways than one. But reminders are helpful when processing something akin to the challenger explosion.

I have to admit that the speculation on timing hit my brain “Is this about the election? Is this about a book?” I guess its natural to speculate. But hurtful to assume and articulate.

I’m grateful for the pastor’s blog you posted earlier, the one who helped share her story.

Hang in there.

Cindy if you read this. Just know that I shed tears for you just now.

i’m just gonna go ahead and say it right now. years ago, my own mother was violated in a crowded bus by an unknown stranger. I don’t wanna say too much about it. But she reached out for help emotionally back in snail mail days. She received it. but she also got push back. Reprimanded by her higher ups.

yeah. I got more stories.
got appointments too.

Patti,

Multiple affairs? I do not see verification.

But he is a child sexual predator and that is a crime. He continued his crime spree for 4.5 years. It is probably ongoing, but it may be digital now.

Trauma affects people differently. So, she may not have felt like she could come forward when things happened.
Mark R,

I used to be an MS/HS teacher. I saw first hand the reactions of two of my former students when the sexual abuse they had suffered was publicly exposed.
If the victim is not ready, not emotionally braced for it, it ain’t pretty. One of my former students had to be physically restrained to keep her from harming herself.
I have no doubt that it is more than hard even when a victim is prepared to go public.

Bob: To suggest God cannot heal someone is the giant flaw in your logic.

HUG isn’t claiming that God can’t heal criminal perverts like Morris. He’s acknowledging the fact that most of them don’t choose to be healed.

Jeffrey Chalmers,

I forgot to add, in my anger over this comment, “ How is taking this, stand of calling out the disgusting/depraved behavior sinful, or a work of Satan?? Excuse me??

Mark R,

And why not?! Doing church without God has become pretty common in America.

Serving Kids in Japan: HUG isn’t claiming that God can’t heal criminal perverts like Morris.He’s acknowledging the fact that most of them don’t choose to be healed.

And Bob is Overspiritualizing.

“God lives in the Real World.” — Rich Buhler
(And for the Over-spiritual, the second line s/b “Why can’t you?”

BZ: Thank you for your comment.

Im not sure I understand this sentence. Could you clarify?If you don’t mind?

I don’t mind.:^)

In a ‘sermon’ at Gateway in 2023 called Healing from Trauma, Morris talked about how the murder of his grandfather affected his mother, and her relationship to him as a boy. (PTSD?) He mentions he saw Henry McCloud a few years ago, four times a year to deal with his issues and tosses out to the congregation that he was sexually abused.

Do I believe him about the sexual abuse? I don’t know. For me his talk felt manipulative and agenda driven, some of what he said can be factually proven.

What I did get was some woundedness. He was a victim of emotional neglect and rejection and maybe or maybe not sexual abuse from someone outside the nuclear family.

I saw the honor/shame paradigm in full bloom.

To me an abuse victim remains a victim, stays silent, doesn’t reach out, lives with the symptoms and consequences. Or a victim may not be at a place to utilize the help they need or seek, or there may be underlying mental health issues that complicate seeking and receiving healing.
A survivor seeks help, to move toward a balanced life. An overcomer is someone who has done deep work and is equipped to help themselves and others.

We know many victims of abuse don’t seek help.
Morris did somewhat for his family wounds according to him.

I saw the piece after Cindy spoke out and frankly I think Morris has deep problems.
Morris is a rarer breed, someone who became an abuser, and seeing a therapist 4 times a year didn’t move him past the victim stage in my opinion. The intervention of people in his life like the elders was merely enabling.

Bob Hemp who worked at Gateway Church as a licensed therapist/pastor adds clarity to the individual and collective response needed.

https://x.com/bobhamp/status/1802543286126621182

Mark R,

My bet is we are going to “hear allot of things” as this all unwinds…
To me, calling a 12 year old girl, and “young women”, is the nail in coffin… Contiuned attemtp to, to put it crudly, BS us… I am SOOO sick of “spirtual” BSing..

Mark R,

No one needs to question the victim’s motives. What is to be questioned? The kind of trauma she endured would have been enough to make anyone never say anything. I come from a family that has a lot of baggage, and I was well into my 40s when I was really able to talk about it (and that was after several months of counseling.) I only started realizing the impact of the domestic violence I witnessed during my childhood when I started having nightmares as an adult. People talk when they are ready, and some never talk at all. But, they need to be ready and feel safe to do it.

Robert Morris’s account of “inappropriate sexual behavior” is just the tip of the iceberg. In 2012, while Bob Hamp and Alan Smith were on staff as pastors at Gateway it was discovered that they both had been involved in extra marital sexual relationships with several women they were in counseling/pastoral roles thru ministry classes called Kairos and Freedom Ministry. The church did not report the incidents or file any charges even though it is considered sexual assault under Texas penal code. Instead, they were quietly terminated 15 months later. Bob Hamp divorced his wife Jackee Hamp, married one of the women who had attended his Kairos classes and opened a counseling office in Grapevine, Texas. Alan Smith started a new church, Catch the Fire and later was found to be having a sexual relationship with someone at his new church. He was again quietly released from ministry, divorced his wife Nancy Routzon Smith he is now a realtor in Burleson, Texas

BZ: Truth be known, “Gateway” and “RM” may be synonymous to outsiders.

Gateway = Morris … Morris falls, Gateway fails … the consequence of ministries built around a leader’s personality, rather than the person of Jesus

Max: Called by God … or called by Dad?There’s a huge difference when it comes to Christian ministry.

Well in their heirs’ minds (and the minds of their brain-addled followers), it is one in the same.

Linn: BZ’s comment also seems to imply that Morris had other victims. If that is true, that is of great concern, and Morris probably has a number of other victims.

Per his admissions over the years, he was very promiscuous. Listen to the 2014 sermon in this or the related blog article.

BZ: Per his admissions over the years, he was very promiscuous.

There is a segment of American churchgoers who prefer “pastors” with a bad-boy past … it makes them feel better about themselves. Such pastors will openly talk about their sex lives (before Christ of course), their struggles with alcohol, drug addiction, gambling habits, etc. They may even flash a tattoo or two to drive the point home. They were awful sinners and they want you to know it! You ain’t going to get any talk about their pursuit of holiness! They will preach things like “Church is not a museum for saints, it’s a hospital for sinners.” Problem is, few become saints. For some reason, you will find most of such pewsitters hanging out in charismatic ranks … I guess they feel more comfortable there than in ministries which challenge them to grow up in Christ and walk the straight and narrow.

With an estimated $117 million net worth it’s no wonder why Morris was kept in “the ministry”. There is money to be made “in Jesus name.” There is no prosperity preacher or mega church that is about to walk away from their love of money.

dee:
3 comments not approved. 2 involved foul language 1 implied that a victim bringing this up after many years is a political plot.

Of course some Kool-Aid drinkers think it is a political plot. After all, Morris was a spiritual advisor to a former POTUS who had been shown in courts of law to abuse and degrade women. So in their minds, it is another threat to their Orange Dear Leader.

dee,

Why does “political plot” NOT surprise me…..

Headless Unicorn Guy: And Bob is Overspiritualizing.

“God lives in the Real World.” — Rich Buhler
(And for the Over-spiritual, the second line s/b “Why can’t you?”

Your argument disproves itself. How is it “overspirititualing” to remind all that God can and does heal? An omnipotent God can heal a lifelong illness or criminal mindset. I am not overspiritualizing. You are “underspiritualizing” and putting God in a box.

Bob,

God can do anything.
But really ….. how often does He make a paralyzed person get up and walk? How often does He cure a mental or psychological illness?
How many criminals have been released and had their records expunged because God healed them?

How much money has Gateway or Morris donated, from their millions and millions of dollars, to support organizations or medical professionals who help youth who have been sexually abused?

Eyewitness: The people whose motives should be questioned are Robert Morris and the leaders who knew about it.

This thing should have never gotten this far. I fault the elders at Shady Grove Church for “restoring” a child abuser to ministry and the elders at Gateway for giving him a platform and keeping him there with knowledge of this. The Shady Grove elders should have promptly reported him to the proper authorities and permanently disqualified him from ministry. Because they didn’t do the right thing, this has impacted thousands of Gateway/Morris followers and given the world another reason to wag their heads at the church.

BZ,

“The amount of times Robert Morris talked about accountability measures placed upon himself is way up there.” As someone else mentioned, I believe y’all at Gateway were groomed so that if the truth about who RM really is ever got out, the congregation wouldn’t be as shocked and horrified and would stand by him. Little by little he gave y’all info until you just weren’t shocked anymore. Kind of like the insidious “damn” in Gone With the Wind movie leading us to our complacency today with all the filth on TV/movies.

My husband once had a staff pastor approach him and ask if they could be accountability partners. My husband agreed. Every time they met, the pastor bad-mouthed the lead pastor and exalted himself. I told my husband never to tell this pastor his secrets because they would be used against him. I just didn’t trust the guy. One time I overheard this pastor tell someone when introducing my husband, “this guy is my accountability partner. He knows EVERYTHING there is to know about me”. Untrue, because he presented himself as practically perfect in every way, like Mary Poppins. Then it all came out, the things this pastor was doing. And he had been grooming my husband, who had a strong reputation in the church, to take his side rather than the pastor’s when if/when it came out. The sad thing is, my husband didn’t believe the truth and thought his friend had been wronged. Because he supported the friend, others did as well. It was a big uproar. We left that church and followed the “friend” to another church where he got on staff. And continued to behave in the same manner and lie. And then back-stabbed us. My husband learned a valuable, but hurtful lesson.

Bob: An omnipotent God can heal a lifelong illness or criminal mindset.

The question has never been ‘can He?’, but rather will He.
Two different horses of different colors.
HUG never said He could not heal.

Let He who is without Sin cast the first stone.. simple

David,

If casting the stone protects potential future victims; through them stones….
There are several grown men that wish my pedo teacher had been charged…. I know this because the court documents effectively say it,….

David: Let He who is without Sin cast the first stone

Do watchmen cast stones? No, they shout warnings to the church.

tammy swofford: My son just said to me, “Mom. This is just my opinion. But outside of organized crime, the church is the most corrupt organization on earth.”

Oh, but it ‘is’ organized … when church leaders cover, protect and advance an alleged child abuser without church members knowing the exact offense while financing the organization for years.

Max: It continues to amaze me that loyal followers of cults of personality rally to the side of an abuser, but seldom to the side of victims.Another symptom of an American church and churchgoers who just don’t get it.

But then 4 of 5 Evangelicals follow another confirmed abusing cult figure with orange skin and bad comb over. They mindless believe and parrot their leader’s talking points and follow his DARVO playbook. So why are you surprised?

2121blessedway:
Not shocking. This pastor helped with the coverup when his son assaulted me.

I’m so sorry you were violated and silenced. You deserve to be heard.

Max:
Mark R,

And why not?!Doing church without God has become pretty common in America.

I have come to think that doing it without God is a prerequisite. A feature, not a bug.

David: Let He who is without Sin cast the first stone.. simple

For the simple-minded, yes…

I was a child in the Shepherd movement/cult at Metroplex Covenant Church started by Charles Simpson and Glen Rochelle and I am close in age to Cindy. After MCC dissolved, my parents attended Gateway. Physical abuse was horrible in the MCCcult and for myself continued until the age of 16 under the “Don’t spare the rod” and “Break their spirit” teaching. Reading what happened to Cindy has brought up memories that are difficult to stop cycling in my head. Just a few weeks ago one of the girls I knew from the church committed suicide. Many girls I grew up with were beat for hours for flirtatious spirits and have suffered tremendous mental anguish because something is very twisted when you are a teenage girl being beat in the name of God. Demonic deliverance services to cast out demons haunt me to this day because I saw and heard things at 9 years old that I still do not understand. I was beat for not raising my hands in church worship high enough . Being beat after church with your dress raised in your parent’s bedroom lying on their bed and your stockings ripped from the impact of the wooden ruler at 12, 13 even 16 creates a complex wound. My heart is so heavy for Cindy because in my church I never felt safe from the wandering eyes of men.. I remember telling my parents about a few men that prayed with me and were too touchy and always staring. I know child abuse in our church was present. Physical, sexual and spiritual abuse and many times all three are very difficult to heal from and rears its ugly head when you least expect it like reading about Robert Morris and Cindy. I know there was tremendous fear of the men in leadership in our churches and frequent physical consequences for crossing them.

I wish I could find all the girls from my church and give them a safe space to come forward. #MeToo : church pastors

I have anger the last few days when I allow myself to think back and remember.

MCC survivor,

I am so sorry for all your pain, and that of your fellow kids growing up….
For all the “hatters” of Blogs like TWW, supporting MCC survivor is why I spend time here…. Not to get my jollies out of “bring down a “Man of God””

MCC survivor,

MCC survivor, I’m an old guy and a reluctant participant in the blogosphere. I would rather be fishing. But, I comment here because of people like you … I comment often because these sad stories come up far too often. What you experienced in church should never happen to anyone. The TWW community, and other watchblogs like it, are your voice. We hear your cry. We strive to inform and warn others so they never experience the pain you’ve known. May God give you peace today. Jesus loves you.

MCC survivor,

I don’t have words to respond adequately to your suffering. No little girl should suffer what you suffered. I grieve with you and for you and your friends. The pain of the abuse itself is horrific enough, but being done in God’s name makes it so very much worse.

Jesus said, “Whoever welcomes one of these little children in my name, welcomes Me.” It stands to reason then that whoever abuses a little child in his name abuses him. “Inasmuch as you have done it to the least of these… you have done it to me.” He’s the only one who truly knows your pain.

I hope you are able to set aside time to take care of yourself at this time in whatever way helps you. You deserve the care. I am so sorry.

MCC survivor,

Oh my dear lord jesus!!! I am so so sorry!!! All this done in the name of the One who truly loves you

“But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves.

Many will follow their depraved conduct and will bring the way of truth into disrepute.

In their greed these teachers will exploit you with fabricated stories. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping.

For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, ……..

then the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from trials and to hold the unrighteous for punishment on the day of judgment.

This is especially true of those who follow the corrupt desire of the flesh and despise authority. Bold and arrogant, they are not afraid to heap abuse on celestial beings; …..,,
… these people blaspheme in matters they do not understand.

They are like unreasoning animals, creatures of instinct, born only to be caught and destroyed, and like animals they too will perish.

They will be paid back with harm for the harm they have done.

Their idea of pleasure is to carouse in broad daylight.

They are blots and blemishes, reveling in their pleasures while they feast with you. With eyes full of adultery, they never stop sinning; they seduce the unstable; they are experts in greed—an accursed brood!

……..,
These people are springs without water and mists driven by a storm. Blackest darkness is reserved for them. For they mouth empty, boastful words and, by appealing to the lustful desires of the flesh, they entice people who are just escaping from those who live in error.

They promise them freedom, while they themselves are slaves of depravity—for “people are slaves to whatever has mastered them.”

If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and are overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning.

It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them.

Of them the proverbs are true: “A dog returns to its vomit,” and, “A sow that is washed returns to her wallowing in the mud.””

‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭2‬:‭1‬-‭22‬ ‭NIV‬‬
https://bible.com/bible/111/2pe.2.22.NIV

Bene D: I saw the piece after Cindy spoke out and frankly I think Morris has deep problems.
Morris is a rarer breed, someone who became an abuser, and seeing a therapist 4 times a year didn’t move him past the victim stage in my opinion. The intervention of people in his life like the elders was merely enabling.

Excellent insight on the diff between victim, overcomer etc. . Thank you.

Pulling back from the emotion of all of this and to look at RM’s history chronologically, (of which I’m more aware than most commenters) , there are many lessons to be learned.

I don’t blame any female victim hearing the whole debacle for wanting to castrate RM. So, anything positive said about the man is going to evoke righteous indignation. Its ok. Let me have it.

But, as istoria ministries (who helped break the story) has emphasized, this is 2024. We’re looking at everything that happened from 1982 to 1987 with 2024 eyes.

Only those of us who were alive at that time “get” what that means.

I am Cindy’s almost exact same age. I can look back at 1982 and its historical consciousness.

My guess is that the Jim / Tammy Faye Baker scandal which broke in 1987 helped spur Cindy & her family to action.

RM was a very gifted speaker from his early teens, and my guess is that the Shady Grove elders wanted to ensure that they didn’t enable another Jim Baker. So they fired him.

Maybe the elders thought “if the father isn’t going to press charges, then neither will we”.

As horrible as that seems, that was often the approach — because, remember— if there’s going to be a prosecution, there’s got to be a witness, and that means that in 1987 a 16, 17 year old girl has to get up in front of a court and tell everything that happened.

Let that sink in.

This is precisely why so much crud, even when it was known, didn’t hit the court system in the 1980’s: adults doing their best, trying not to retraumatize a young woman with her whole future ahead of her.

Imagine walking down the halls of high school as a sixteen year old, you’re naively blaming yourself, guys are looking at you. You’re not sure if they know.

And regarding the thought that RM should have handed himself into the authorities…. well, think about that too.

Confessing to a crime like that, when the family of the victim isn’t calling the police, means cops arriving at the girls house, questions from neighbors, ….. the whole thing being exposed whether the victim and family want it exposed or not.

If you can see it as, like istoria ministries said, adults in 1987 who were doing the best they knew how to do at the time then it makes sense.

When we conflate 42 years of history into a soundbyte we don’t do anyone any favors.

Speaking of which– the NDA which I haven’t addressed.

RM may be worth $117M today, but in 2007 he wasn’t on TV, definitely not worth that amount then.

But yeah, when she asked for $50,000, he should have given her $150,000 no strings attached with a note saying “I am so sorry for my horrible actions against you 20 years ago. I cannot undo the past. What else can I do to make this right? ”

And that question remains. Here in 2024. He can’t undo the past. But what can he do, what should RM do today in 2024?

Perhaps ask Cindy that same question. And say “I will go to the authorities if that would make things right.” Then let her make that decision. Remember, no prosecutor is going press charges unless there is a willing witness.

Sorry for the length again…. thanks for listening. I hope RM is too?

BZ,

This is important context and I agree and appreciate your comment.

The issue now is that here we are 41 years later and the elders of Gateway are acting as if they had absolutely zero idea that the person he referred to as a “young lady” was 12. I’m not buying it.

The other issue at hand is “Are there more girls?” The U.S. Gymnastics team, Jeffrey Epstein, Harvey Weinstein and the #MeToo movement brought so much to light.. What will this uncover?

@2121blessedlife I resonate with what you have said about the son and I am so sorry that this happened and that it was covered up. We know that pediphiles are always just that and we know the pride is the sin that caused Satan to take a third of the angels with him in Rebellion. I have always said that Morris was full of pride in every sermon. It oozes out of him. He has not repented of this at all. It is still a very present demon in his life. There will be others that have been assaulted and abused by him. They need to contact Cindy’s lawyer(as someone said, the police are probably in his pocket). We know that demons attach and have a legal right to be there in the blood line until is is dealt with(and this has not been). Morris’s sons and including his daughter will have this in their blood line (the sins of the father is visited to the 3rd and 4th generation). So when you said the son had assaulted you and it was covered up, this makes total sense. Satan is the master of misdirection and loves to cover up sin. Satan deals in coverups and cloaks sin. This is the case here. Morris’s children will need help also, to cut this off in the spiritual realm so that their children are not affected. This goes much deeper than just Morris Snr and he would know this, but pleasure is Morris’s top priority and having people admire him(pride) which is exactly what Satan did, is what he truly wants. Pidephilia is a crime.
Please look at all the access that Morris had to children in his ministry and his family. Morris was actually out of the ministry only one month, as after he was ‘caught’ he stepped down from Shady Grove and after only one month was travelling with James(who he named his son after) the travelling evangelist, and was moving about the country going to high schools speaking. He had access to children all the way through. There will be many others victims out there. Please come forward to put this man in prison where he belongs. Morris resigning does not make this right. It is cowardice (he should have been sacked)and he will still be seeking fuel for his continued pride and his filth, that lives in him.
Poor Cindy and all the other victims out there. Put him away please. I also wonder how many NDA’s are out there with his name in it. Please contact Cindy’s lawyer to discuss your legal options, even if you have signed one of these.
The son that assaulted 2121blessedlife needs to be investigated also.

BZ: Thats quite a story. You were right. Listen to & trust a bad mouther and he will eventually bad mouth you. thx for sharing.

yet as I read this entire blog, the majority of what I am reading are people who claim to know Christ bad-mouthing someone who has sinned. We can’t claim Christ and bad-mouth those Christ died for, and Christ died for Sinners, who at the time of His crucifixion, were His enemies. All of us are either for Christ or against Christ. Bad mouthing anyone and claiming we are in a relationship with Christ, regardless of how horrible their sin is, is cause to question our own salvation.

Before anyone attacks my words, understand I was molested since I was 4 or 5 until I was legally able to walk out the door. After my husband left, God shook me to the core to make Himself known to me and let me know that while I claimed to be a child of God all of these years, I was NOT saved, I had absolutely no relationship with Him. I let pastors spoon feed me God’s Word, but didn’t know it for myself. But God, through Christ cleaned me, changed me and taught me His Word for myself and taught me to forgive through Him to see humanity from His eyes and not my flesh. Today because Christ is in me, I can pray for my abusers, because our God is able to change hearts and clean them.

The kings heart is like channels of water in the Hands of God, He turns it whichever way He chooses (SC’s paraphrase of Pro 20:1). No one is un-redemable, if we believe that man is un-redemable, even those who molest children, then our god is not the One True God. We will be judged by that which we judge others. We do not know the heart of RM, but we know the One Who does.

What better place is there for satan to attack? if satan attacks the pastors, he “thinks” he can scatter the flock. We are the church, it isn’t a “building” it isn’t an organization, it certainly isn’t a denomination! The Church is those who are Believers in Yeshua Messiah. His Body, His Bride. Do we pray for our pastors, our Bible study leaders, those who teach us God’s Word or do we complain and bad mouth them?

tammy swofford: My son just said to me, “Mom. This is just my opinion. But outside of organized crime, the church is the most corrupt organization on earth.” Our son his highly intelligent and analytical. I take his words to heart tonight. Have we allowed the church to become the average Whore of Babylon?
What the church has become, is something unrecognizable in some quarters. Gateway Church, is a pretty large quarter, claiming 100,000 members. I remain grateful for our local church. But what Robert has accomplished, is to alienate our child from the church.

Please teach and show your son, the true Church. We, the believers in Yeshua Messiah are the Church. The Holy Spirit if we are saved, indwells within the Church, the Body of Christ. We need to remember and TEACH others that the Church is NOT an organization, NOT a building, Not a board of elders Not a denomination of any kind, Not a religion. We need to teach our children and all generations what God says, what He expects, how He gives us a choice on whether to believe in Him, obey Him and build His kingdom, be priests to His God, to obey Him and trust in Him alone. It is faith alone in Christ alone. If we love Him we will obey Him. Otherwise we believe in our idols, human organizations, religion, governments and ensure satan’s kingdom is alive and well and allow lies and false belief to keep deluding the people who think they have salvation.

It is believers in Yeshua. It is those who have a relationship with God through Christ. It isn’t a “religion”, it is the people of God, that through His Mercy & His Grace, have been saved from the penalty of sin, because He provided Himself the acceptable sacrifice for our sins, so that all sin can be forgiven for those who believe in Him alone.

We are not priests in the future, we are right now priests for God, His ambassadors right now on earth, so we must teach the Truth of Who He is and not continue the charade that the “church” is anything other than the True believers in Yeshua.

NASB95
Rev_1:6  and He has made us to be a kingdom, priests to His God and Father—to Him be the glory and the dominion forever and ever. Amen.
Rev_5:10  “You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God; and they will reign upon the earth.”

BZ: i think he went to Criswell College.

He started Gateway in 2000 or 2001, so he would have been 39 or 40.

He went for a while to both East Texas Baptist University (in Marshall, where he was born, though he went to high school at Longview Pine Tree) and later to Criswell, but he never got a degree from either.

MCC Survivor:
The other issue at hand is “Are there more girls?”The U.S. Gymnastics team, Jeffrey Epstein, Harvey Weinstein and the #MeToo movement brought so much to light.. What will this uncover?

I have no doubt there are. Read Rachel Denhollander’s impact statement and see the eerie similarities between Larry Nasser and Robert Morris.

Haley:
Muslin, fka Dee Holmes,

Actually he CAN be prosecuted in Texas because the laws have changed since she initially tried. She can contact the district attorney tomorrow if she’d like because Robert Morris CAN be prosecuted for either crime at any time, regardless of how long it has been since the event.

Actually he cannot. The 10 year statute of limitations had already expired when the law was changed in 2007 to remove it. Criminal would be ex post facto and unconstitutional. But civil is still open.

SC: yet as I read this entire blog, the majority of what I am reading are people who claim to know Christ bad-mouthing someone who has sinned.

Yup. Well said. The schadenfreude runs pretty thick.

R’as al Ghul: I think the son is being too generous. Organized Crime is less corrupt than the church. At least the mob doesn’t threaten your immortal soul when you don’t give them their weekly cut of protection money. And well, I don’t see the Dons and Capos molesting their kids (or even their enemies’ kids).

Lol. You crack me up! The mob. Yeah—so righteous! No, they don’t *threaten* your immortal soul. They just *remove* it from your body via Colt .45, meat grinder, whatever.

I intended to add BZ ( Insider )is the most insightful..comment I’ve read .

BZ: Lol. You crack me up!The mob. Yeah—so righteous! No, they don’t *threaten* your immortal soul. They just *remove* it from your body via Colt .45, meat grinder, whatever.

But at least with the Mob you know what are getting into ahead of time when you deal with them. Their business arrangements and terms are explained and known upfront. Unlike a church or its leadership or its pastor. But then you conveniently did not reply to my comment about mobsters generally don’t molest their own kids (or someone else’s for that matter).

Muslin, fka Dee Holmes,

We followed Pastor Chuck from Costa Mesa California so many years this is as if he had done something like this. He would’ve never hit it for 40 years and we were going to Shady Grove Church at the time and becoming we became saved there under old and Griffith teaching, this is a slap in the face to Shady Grove church

Logan: Yes it’s terrible what happened, awful, but can we not show some compassion…
What would Jesus do ?

You don’t need to ask that, He already told us what He’d do: Whoever offends a little one will end up with a millstone around his neck.

Jesus might also flip over the tables of the PR company and church elders who are currently crafting yet another statement that will turn yet more people away from God, just like the money changers were doing in the temple.

Logan: I hope someone is there for Robert .

Don’t worry, Logan, people have been covering for him for decades, he already has a big entourage.

Logan, your comments demonstrate why these situations get covered up and are allowed to continue for years in the church……I’m being serious here, ask yourself: “Why is my first response to show concern for a pedophile?”

Muslin, fka Dee Holmes,

I was a Gateway member for several years before I became unhappy with the way the church was going. It saddens me to hear this about Robert Morris, but I can’t say I’m all that surprised. However, this happened not in Texas, but in Oklahoma. Still a crime, but you can’t apply Texas law to an Oklahoma crime.

Muslin, fka Dee Holmes: And for any “Gateway People” reading here–understand this. A 12 YO cannot consent to sexual contact, period, end of story. That is the law in Texas.

He thinks the “35 year old matter has been RESOLVED.” LOL In fact, it’s so resolved, he had to resign.

<strong>Logan, you use of the Nazi prison guards proves disproves your point. Of course Corrie forgave them. But, they faced punishment as Nazis. You are familiar with those trials and
punishments for being Nazis, especially those who abused in Nazi camps. Forgiveness and repentance does not equate to no change in lifestyle. The Nazis did ntremain Nazis and many were imprisoned, deservedly.The help you say Robert needs may well be the punishment he seems to deserve. Don’t be simplistic. PS I met Corrie but that is another story.

Ariel …

Consider the Lords Prayer

“ Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us “
Also , “he that is without sin cast the first stone “
“But for the grace of God , there go I “

How would you like to be treated ?

Yes it’s a terrible Sin , but the tone of many is calling vengeance.
What good will that do ?
Corrie Tenboom forgave her Nazi prison guards
They did awful terrible things
Robert. Needs help , not condemnation

Possibly check the true meaning of the verse
Mathew 18:6
You might be surprised.

Not talking about any punishment he may receive..
That’s a totally different issue .

I’m referring to forgiveness.
We are only forgiven as we forgive

That’s where the comparison to Corrie ends

Could you forgive such an offence ? could I ?

That’s the point , if we can’t then we probably need to look long and hard at Calvary

Overly simplistic ? maybe , but the Gospel is too simple for most of the world today

Max:
MCC survivor,

MCC survivor, I’m an old guy and a reluctant participant in the blogosphere.I would rather be fishing.But, I comment here because of people like you … I comment often because these sad stories come up far too often.What you experienced in church should never happen to anyone.The TWW community, and other watchblogs like it, are your voice.We hear your cry.We strive to inform and warn others so they never experience the pain you’ve known.May God give you peace today.Jesus loves you.

Max, please know how appreciated you are. I’ve been reading here off and on since around 2018. I’ve never posted before, but I wanted to thank you. Your wisdom and kindness is one of the main reasons I read here. That and to know there are still other followers of Christ out there who care about truth, justice, and the least of these unlike so many of the experiences of myself and my friends who have been victims of church abuse.

Max,

Thank you. I will be around.

R’as al Ghul: But then you conveniently did not reply to my comment about mobsters generally don’t molest their own kids (or someone else’s for that matter).

Ha! You win. I learned something! . I guess in. “Mafia 101”, (grade: F) I skipped the “hands off our women & children” chapter.

at least the old italian mafia was that way. that image started to crack in 2010 with one known case.

Child trafficking is so sickeningly rampant today that it seems theres not a profession out there immune to having perps.

Priests, preachers, teachers, doctors, dentists, lawyers, grocery store clerks, —-mobsters?

If there isn’t a known case of an old italian mafia member preying on a child — well, i guess its because they… “took care of things” (!)

BZ, I appreciate you sharing your perspective as an once-insider of Gateway. But words (RMs) are cheap when not accompanied by action.

The only reason RM has acknowledged the details of his crime is because the victim stepped forward first. If he had been truly repentant, he would have come forward years ago before the statute of limitations expired … which I believe is 30 years after the victim’s 18th birthday (i.e. 48 … she’s now 54). I imagine he chose to ride it out.

Also, sexual assault is a crime, to be prosecuted by the government, an institution God created (Romans 13:1), not by a local church, or victim’s family. Why? Because RM could have (and may have) continued a pattern of sexual assaults in the same church or elsewhere had he moved on. It doesn’t matter if he never assaulted after the 80’s … he was allowed to move freely and could have continued preying on others.

And finally, I believe I read that Gateway leadership claims they did an internal investigation years ago and it wasn’t until just recently that they learned the “young lady” was a 12-year old girl. “How old was your victim, RM?” would have been the first question asked in a thorough investigation. So, those involved were grossly irresponsible, at best, or criminally complicit, at worst. If there are any elders still around who were involved in this investigation, or had any knowledge, they too should be removed.

My heart hurts to see the Church (e.g., a 12-year old girl) go through these horrendous experiences. I know we are all broken sinners, and can and must trust our loving savior Jesus, but we must bend over backwards to hold our church leaders accountable as scripture calls us to, instead of fearing what blowback there might be from the world.

BZ,

I’m an outsider as well and have attended Gateway many times when visiting my kids. We are devastated and shocked over this news. I appreciate you sharing your comments.

There is no other profession in which someone could admit to repeatedly sexually assaulting a 12 year old and remain in his profession.

This makes me beyond sick to my stomach. To answer your question, how many Christians worship Elvis Prestley, Jerry Lee Lewis and both of them should’ve been in prison for pedophilia!! Priscilla was THIRTEEN years old when Elvis raped her! You won’t here the main stream media condemning him! Quite the opposite… he is honored as a king! MAKES ME WANT TO PUKE!!!

Well then this is the time she should report it to police. She might not have to if the statue of limitations has changed the police might just come and get him.
Caroline Feherty,

Bob: BZ, I appreciate you sharing your perspective as an once-insider of Gateway.

I appreciate that very much!

….. If he had been truly repentant, he would have come forward years ago before the statute of limitations expired … which I believe is 30 years after the victim’s 18th birthday (i.e. 48 … she’s now 54). I imagine he chose to ride it out.

That’s good thinking, and the sentiment of the day, indeed. Thinking deeply about this, and with some recent revelations in the comments, it appears that RM was put out of ministry, then back in in 2 years, and made an Elder at Shady Grove within a year.

If that’s true, then that there is enabling, big time. An Elder. Three years prior to that he was abusing a minor, which started 4.5 years before that? In 7.5 years after conversion, most of them had been spent in depravity.

Sounds like he thought his past was forgiven, all a-ok with all the adults in the room, so he moved on, next subject.

Baptists tend to shoot their wounded to the extreme. Charismatics, it appears are on the flip side. Grace, grace, and more grace. I’m generalizing of course. Lots of grace isn’t a bad thing. Unless it enables….

He was set up to crash, IMO.

Women and men process information very differently. A man can compartmentalize– out of sight out of mind, meaning, we never know, but the specifics of the law weren’t necessarily ever on his radar.

If she was asking for 50K, then she wasn’t asking for prosecution, and … is that what she wanted? It seems like a righteous thing to do… turning one’s self in that is.

But practically, even ethically, I dont’ think that’s a realistic, or even appropriate action to take.

And I seriously doubt she’s going to pursue this at this time. You never know.

“Turning yourself in” when her LAWYERS in civil litigation are asking for $50K?

Turning one’s self in for bank robbery, murder, kidnapping, that’s different. I’ve read of people turning themselves in after killing someone in the heat of the moment.

But as I’ve said before, “turning yourself in” doesn’t make for a quiet, private resolution.

With all the unasked for attention, and scrutiny it would have caused, that actually a form of disrespect. (Obviously, the lowball $25K plus NDA was disrespectful!! ).

The attention, pressure, scrutiny, and grief all of this causes on her, on her family, on her husband, children, grandchildren, and conversely on RM’s children & grandchildren, it doesn’t sound like she was ready for any of that.

Also, sexual assault is a crime, to be prosecuted by the government, an institution God created (Romans 13:1), not by a local church, or victim’s family.

Indeed. But it takes cooperation from a witness, if I understand correctly. If she was 12 when the crime was discovered, that would have been different. Thus the insidiousness of statutory offenses. The kid is groomed to be willing, and it takes place for years afterwards. And then, at age 16, (thank god she didn’t let it go on further), in 1987, she’s looking forward to the prom, not describing her sex life on a witness stand, my speculation.

Why? Because RM could have (and may have) continued a pattern of sexual assaults in the same church or elsewhere had he moved on.

Right you are. I’m hoping that is not the case. Its a lot more likely to have occurred prior to 1987 than since 2000. From all the information I have, it looks like RM, at some point, came face to face with the monstrosity of what he’d done, and, like Sonny in Robert Duvall’s “The Apostle” 1997, worked to build the kingdom of God to make up for the damage he’d done to his eternal soul.

Robert Morris did not believe that Ted Bundy et al could just get saved and go to heaven. He believed that salvation by grace was free to anyone, including to the TB types who convert before execution, but that payback in the afterlife was still there , yes, even in heaven, for those with serious offenses in their heavenly record.

Conversely, he didn’t think that hell was equally punitive for all headed there. Special places in hell for Hitler. Special places in heaven for Mother Teresa. And he very, very clearly did not see himself as a Mother Teresa.

If I’m psychologically profiling him, he looks like the guy trying to make up for his past, not the guy using the pulpit to prey on victims.

What people need to understand is how insulated he was. Very upfront in the pulpit that he was strictly a preaching pastor, and that Gateway was built on that model. No weddings, no funerals, no counseling individuals, no appointments with the pastor. All those things were delegated to staff. (He communicated it in a pretty humorous way.)

There was always a group of men around him when he was seen. I had many opportunities to meet him, starting 2007, but didn’t. There was a line, and you’d always talk to several of his associates while waiting.

This is why I am highly doubtful there will be credible allegations of anything during his Gateway years, and I suspect after 1987.

(BTW he never claimed to have a radical transformation from a monster to an angel. He was very open about his struggles caused by the insidiousness of sex outside of marriage.)

He was not ever your typical small church pastor while at Gateway.

It doesn’t matter if he never assaulted after the 80’s … he was allowed to move freely and could have continued preying on others.

That is the sad reality for most sex offenders.

And finally, I believe I read that Gateway leadership claims they did an internal investigation years ago and it wasn’t until just recently that they learned the “young lady” was a 12-year old girl.

“How old was your victim, RM?” would have been the first question asked in a thorough investigation.

I think this conflates information. There was never an ‘investigation’ prior to the one announced yesterday. He was open for years about his past, minus the gory details.

So, those involved were grossly irresponsible, at best, or criminally complicit, at worst. If there are any elders still around who were involved in this investigation, or had any knowledge, they too should be removed.

According to Cindy Cleminshire’s recent public statements, RM, one elder who is no longer on board, and his personal attorney are the only ones she informed within Gateway.

My heart hurts to see the Church (e.g., a 12- year old girl) go through these horrendous experiences. I know we are all broken sinners, and can and must trust our loving savior
Jesus, but we must bend over backwards to hold our church leaders accountable as scripture calls us to, instead of fearing what blowback there might be from the world.

Absolutely.

DM: THOMAS MILLER has been there since almost the beginning…. I know I went there for many of the early years…. If anyone knows the real secrets it’s

TM is year younger than Cindy who is closer to his wife’s age That would have made interesting dinner conv:
RM: “By the way, …. ”
TM: “Oh REALLY? …. ”

Thank you for reaching out.. There are so many of us out there and I would like to see the light shined on what happened..

BZ,

He was very open about you say… but obviously not open enough to mention the age, on purpose. So being deceitful while appearing to be remorseful. Not owning up to a crime while looking for absolution. Some leader.

Billy Ramsdell,

You have articulated this sad story well with the truth of the matter. It has been a chain of events launched on the Body of Christ by “a small group of self governing fools who were in over their heads” and has ended the same way. The Gateway elders need to go and the Morris family should not be allowed to control what will be left of Gateway.

BZ: And then, at age 16, (thank god she didn’t let it go on further), in 1987, she’s looking forward to the prom, not describing her sex life on a witness stand, my speculation.

Thank god she didn’t let it go on further??? She didn’t have a choice! This was criminal abuse done to her! If she never did a single thing that prompted the end of the abuse she would still not be responsible for any of it.

What was done to her was not her sex life. It was ongoing violation on the deepest level. That is not a sex life.

BZ,

RM is not a víctim. If what you say is true about him confessing his “sexual struggles, the Word states that he should never have been a “Sheperd”. He was disqualified as an example of a leader

Jacob L,

Regardless of when she came out about her experience, he’s admitted to doing everything.

sunnynorth: Thank god “she didn’t let it go on further”??? She didn’t have a choice! This was criminal abuse done to her! If she never did a single thing that prompted the end of the abuse she would still not be responsible for any of it.

What was done to her was not her sex life. It was ongoing violation on the deepest level. That is not a sex life.

Thanks for calling out the absurdity of a commenter labeling the violent pedophile rape of a child “sex life”.

Like a previous commenter calling the violent pedophile rape of a child “hanky panky.”

Tone deaf comments.

A man has never been vaginally raped (attacked by objects, fingers, a male projectile, etc., all rape) at 12 years old or at any other age since men don’t have vaginas. Duh.

Instead of making tonedeaf comments, wisdom would be listening to those who really know what this is all about. Not listening while going on and on with ignorant comments is subtle misogyny.

The violence here is experienced by women. Women are the authorities on this. Some men just can’t fathom women in authority about anything, especially when it comes to a woman’s body.

Some men just can’t handle it when they don’t have a clue what they are talking about but they grab the mic and rule the room anyway. Some men.

Wade and Rachel suggested to Cindy that she contact Dee of TWW. Wade knows Cindy but he’s not going on and on here about Cindy’s experiences, decisions, past, present, and future … like some of these commenters.

The remedy for tonedeaf comments is better listening and being supportive of people speaking for themselves.

Paul Pressler had dozens of male victims. They, too, should speak for themselves. Other guy victims can then add wisdom.

Dee allowing people to share their stories is a golden opportunity for listening, processing, and learning, over and above the narcissism of speculative and completely inappropriate commenting.

Betty Shaver,

I’ve said this to others but here we go again: Until very recently, a sexual assault victim would have to tell her story many many times to many many men who would call her a liar and a sl;ut. Cindy and her parents may have decided that continuing the abuse in that way was not a good idea. Also in a small town police department, word would spread through the entire town. The gossips would continue to shame and abuse cindy and the entire family.

there are good reasons why only 1 in 10 sexual assaults are ever reported to law enforcement. I was an adult and never reported mine.

Betty Shaver,

Being just a few years older than Cindy I can totally understand why a loving father did not report. I only knew a couple cases reported to law enforcement in the 80’s though I knew of many overall. The victims in the reported cases fared much worse – worse than those who didn’t report and worse than their perpetrators. The effects of reporting and the public nature of that exposure were significant and lasting. The unreported ones still suffered greatly but were better able to compartmentalize and deal with it on their own time table. They still retained a measure of control over their own recovery. Justice would have been healing for all of us who suffered such atrocities as children but at such a high high cost. Things have improved for victims, there is much greater support and less stigma, but it is still not easy to have something so personal so exposed outside your control.

OTOH there is always the burden (one that absolutely should have never been forced on the child victim) that if you don’t sacrifice your own well being by reporting you are somehow responsible for any subsequent victimizing by the predator. For this reason I finally got the guts to report to authorities in my twenties – reporting myself and five other likely victims. I never got even a call back. It was well past the statute of limitations in place at that time.

As for mandatory reporting for clergy – I know in my state that law did not pass until the mid 90’s. I’ve never heard of anyone being prosecuted for not reporting – clergy or otherwise – in this state. Many in the secular systems do not report, let alone in the church.

Tom Rubino,

“Freedom Ministry” at Gateway is known, in other circles Deliverance Ministry, which includes casting out demons, and getting free from the spiritual entities that cause people to engage in negative behavior patterns, and receive Freedom to do and be what God created them for.

Julielystad,
I asked myself this question also.
It sounds like she did come forward earlier but no one was listening, or they just covered up the part where she was 12.

Muff Potter:
dee,

In my State (California), the DA’s office would have already filed criminal charges against Morris.

On what grounds? I did a brief search on both civil and criminal SOL in CA and it would appear that both are long past. In fact, Texas appears to have much better protections once it’s reported. I don’t even think “consensual” clergy abuse of adults is illegal yet, though a bill was introduced earlier this year. It seems there is work to be done in CA.

BZ:
As an insider to Gateway, I have to put in my two cents. I’m no longer a member. But I was for well over ten years. That means I saw RM’s sermons week after week after week.

This was a monstrous crime which I will not defend.

Having said that, what is missing from these justified critiques is that RM has admitted to, in his 20’s, having been a monster, a sexual predator in his sermons. Not once. Not twice. But over and over and over. In Anguish. In tears. His struggles against immoral thoughts since then, the counseling he has had for years over this.

Over the years he revealed more of how bad it was— without details of course.One time we all sat in silence as he, hesitantly, timidly, but deliberately revealed — that, again,in his teens and into his twenties he preyed on emotionally *vulnerable* girls — in church.

He has spoken again and again about his anguish over his infidelity in his teens & 20’s, the counseling he’s gone through over it.

Now that the age of one of his victims is known, it is shocking.

But something told me that the nasty details would one day rise to the surface.

And here we are.

There’s no telling where this will lead.

But outsiders need to know that Gateway is home to many very broken people. People who come in racked with guilt over the awful things they’ve done in the past, people who come to make things right with others and with God. people who come to find forgiveness. Sin is terrible. Repentance from sin is necessary. But perpetual remorse over past sin that has been accounted for leads to depression and suicide.

Having a pastor who has been so open about his past is part of what has grown the church. Like the saying goes, “its a hospital for sinners, not a showcase for the saints”.

Pastor Robert I think knew that this day was coming, and he has been preparing to step down for years.

He has surrounded himself with good people so that the church would continue in his absence.

He is a gifted communicator, who was prematurely promoted very early in life into the spotlight for his ability to hold a room. Thisis what his wife says about him.

He crashed early in life. Bad. Everybody knows it.

Ive never known him to throw stones, because he lives in a glass house and admits it.

Just giving some perspective from the inside.

Muff Potter:
dee,

In my State (California), the DA’s office would have already filed criminal charges against Morris.