Woman crying in church. cotonbro@pexels
The copy stinks, but you can make it out. I will get you a clean copy tomorrow. This is moving fast. My next prediction is that Morris will downplay what happened on Sunday, and there will be a standing ovation. I believe he is done for as a pastor.
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Keep going, Dee!
And for any “Gateway People” reading here–understand this. A 12 YO cannot consent to sexual contact, period, end of story. That is the law in Texas. And Robert Morris is credibly alleged to have sexually assaulted this girl for 4.5 years. He’s a predator. He’s a *wolf*. He is no shepherd. The only reason he’s not being brought up on charges is the statute of limitations has run.
Churches already have a bad reputation for protecting pastor predators. Y’all need to find a way to get Morris out before the name of your church becomes mud. Do not give a standing ovation to this guy on Sunday–he needs the left foot of fellowship.
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What is this BS that her family forgave him? If that’s true, they are as big a monster as RM.
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They absolutely did not! They are furious at them. Her mom and sister have sought people to listen to their stories for years. He is not telling the truth, but that should not come as a surprise. They are a wonderful family.
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Thanks Dee.
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In his 2023 sermon, Healing from trauma, Morris says he was emotionally, physically and sexually abused. He adds he sought counselling from Henry McCloud 7 years ago.
I don’t see him as an abuse survivor, or overcomer, I see him as an abuse victim.
He abused Cindy for 5 years starting when she was 12. His ambitions seen to give him selective memory, regarding forgiveness from the family and the hell he put a child through.
Confession, repentance, restoration, freedom ministry counselling and an offer of 25 thousand with an NDA, aren’t worth spit when he controls the narrative.
Healing or spin?
There needs to be private and public restitution for starters, and yes, he needs to be out of the pulpit.
I’m going with spin and it sickens me.
Robert Morris has unfinished business to attend to.
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What the He double hockey sticks is “freedom ministry”??
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Like the name of a Third World country – the more adjectives about Democracy in a country’s official name, the nastier a dictatorship it is.
War is Peace
Freedom is Slavery
Ignorance is Strnegth
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Then she got Too Old for hm?
Just like Alternative Facts/Alternative TRVTHs, Except CHRISTIAN(TM)!
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Good question gentlemen.
What is freedom ministry?
With the honor-shame culture of the US south, if this statement makes the pulpit, sadly there will be a standing O.
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Not shocking. This pastor helped with the coverup when his son assaulted me.
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I have to ask the obvious question.
Why come forward now?
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I hope Mr. Morris’s congregants have a source of information that would translate “young lady” to “12-year-old girl.”
This reminds me of the word games that were played when Judge Roy Moore was running for Senate, and it was reported that, as a man in his 30s, he had been trolling the shopping mall for girls and had sexually abused some girls.
“He liked younger women,” defenders said, when the reality was, “He preyed on young teenage girls.”
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Thank you for publishing this story, Dee. I hope the Houston Chronicle picks this story up since they were the paper that broke open the sexual abuse cover-up scandal in the SBC.
“Young lady” has a broad age range in the South and congregations are predisposed to believe in their pastor, so I doubt that anyone hearing the term automatically causes people to think of a child. And they will no doubt be told not to read blogs, etc. The only way they get the real story is if it goes public in a way that their neighbors read about it.
This is still another reminder that we need to abolish statute of limitations on sexual abuse of minors.
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“Restoration.” To quote Inigo Montoya: “You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.”
“Restoration” clearly only means “restoration to the pulpit.”
It does not mean “restoration of the victim” to fullness of life. An offer of $25,000 in exchange for her voice is extortion, not restoration.
I wonder how many NDAs there are. And I hope those victims find a way to speak out.
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From about 4th grade to age 45, depending on the age of the person using the phrase. I’m 58, and some of the old men at my church will refer to me as a “young lady.” I think it recognizes my youthful vibe ;-).
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She was a 12 year old CHILD, don’t try to spin us like you did Cindy, Robert Morris. You are a child predator and you DO NOT belong in any kind of church leadership position. Thank God the truth of this sicko is finally coming out. His wife Debbie should be ashamed of herself that she put the blame of her husband’s despicable acts on a 12 year old girl! He’s out his evil spin on Debbie too! He is a Narcissistic Child pedophile. Please Gateway Church, remove him for good! Jesus warned us about wolves that come in sheep clothing!
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If Morris was an SGC pastor, Gary Ricucci could explain that Robert “was just attracted to the woman she was becoming?” Disgusting.
Muslin, fka Dee Holmes,
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Bene D,
Robert Morris has unfinished business to attend to.
Yep: an extended stay in a federal penitentiary.
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This story makes me absolutely sick to my stomach (but thanks to Cynthia and her family for being brave enough to make it public). And it makes me question why God allows monsters like this to continue to blaspheme his Holy name and his precious church. Oh, rend the heavens and come down!
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As an insider to Gateway, I have to put in my two cents. I’m no longer a member. But I was for well over ten years. That means I saw RM’s sermons week after week after week.
This was a monstrous crime which I will not defend.
Having said that, what is missing from these justified critiques is that RM has admitted to, in his 20’s, having been a monster, a sexual predator in his sermons. Not once. Not twice. But over and over and over. In Anguish. In tears. His struggles against immoral thoughts since then, the counseling he has had for years over this.
Over the years he revealed more of how bad it was— without details of course. One time we all sat in silence as he, hesitantly, timidly, but deliberately revealed — that, again, in his teens and into his twenties he preyed on emotionally *vulnerable* girls — in church.
He has spoken again and again about his anguish over his infidelity in his teens & 20’s, the counseling he’s gone through over it.
Now that the age of one of his victims is known, it is shocking.
But something told me that the nasty details would one day rise to the surface.
And here we are.
There’s no telling where this will lead.
But outsiders need to know that Gateway is home to many very broken people. People who come in racked with guilt over the awful things they’ve done in the past, people who come to make things right with others and with God. people who come to find forgiveness. Sin is terrible. Repentance from sin is necessary. But perpetual remorse over past sin that has been accounted for leads to depression and suicide.
Having a pastor who has been so open about his past is part of what has grown the church. Like the saying goes, “its a hospital for sinners, not a showcase for the saints”.
Pastor Robert I think knew that this day was coming, and he has been preparing to step down for years.
He has surrounded himself with good people so that the church would continue in his absence.
He is a gifted communicator, who was prematurely promoted very early in life into the spotlight for his ability to hold a room. This is what his wife says about him.
He crashed early in life. Bad. Everybody knows it.
Ive never known him to throw stones, because he lives in a glass house and admits it.
Just giving some perspective from the inside.
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Tom Rubino,
Freedom Ministry is like inner healing. Examples are Restoring the Foundations or Sozo
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Remember the Axiom of an Honor/Shame Culture:
“If Nobody Knows of my Sin, I Am Not Shamed.”
Which easily accretes Honor Killings, i.e. “And Dead Men (or Dead Jezebels) Tell No Tales.”.
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I am in shock at this man was allowed to ever be a pastor again. I am very disappointed that he was giving back his clergy card as you say he could become forgiven, but should never have been allowed to be a pastor. He’s had a wonderful ride and needs to step down. My blood is boiling at the thought that this man did this, and had the audacity to ask to be a pastor again, but more so that they let him.
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Given the extension of the statute of limitations for clergy sex abuse due to new laws, can’t a district attorney and the police open up an investigation?
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So eventually the congregants are going to find out that she was 12 *and* that their elders knew. How many will walk away? And how many will stay and justify it? Even applaud?
There is no other profession in which someone could admit to repeatedly sexually assaulting a 12 year old and remain in his profession.
We should all pray for Cindy and her family because she’s about to become the target and get cast as the bad guy in all this.
Cindy, I’m sure you knew that and yet you stepped forward. So much courage!
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FreshGrace,
“And it makes me question why God allows monsters like this to continue to blaspheme his Holy name and his precious church.”
++++++++++
perhaps God allows what people allow.
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This was the case with Jeffrey Epstein. His preference was for 12-16, girls. Ghislaine Maxwell then trained the girls who aged out to recruit their younger sisters with friends, ‘cuz … supply for the hebephilia dysfunctional twisted evil of a hebephile pedophile.
And then there’s the supply for the hebephilia dysfunctional twisted EVIL-gelicalism of a hebephile pedophile. Where does he source his supply? Churchfolk. Church friends. Church camps. Church retreats. Church conferences. Church workshops. Church overnights. Church youth groups. Total access, AKA Pastor.
The fact that our lawbooks have Sex Offender Registries, since pedophilia according to research never goes away, AND we have Statutes of Limitations on reporting criminal pedophilia is TOTALLY CONTRADICTORY LAW. The pedophile NEVER ages out of his pedophilia: scientific FACT. According to scientific research, there should be no statute of limitations for pedophile crimes.
State the sex predator registry facts to the whining churchfolks circling the wagons for their Beloved Dear Leader with, “but it has been sooooo many years.”
Church, do better.
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Protect your pastor or your kids. Because you can’t do both. It’s one or the other. Choice.
“Choose ye this day, whom ye shall serve … ”
“As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord*.”
*Question: is that Lord Pastor or the Lord Jesus? Can’t do both. (Idolatry.)
*From Joshua 24.
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Fact.
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from the #all-staff church message chat. Looks like an internal leak.
Thomas Miller
Hi, Gateway Staff. Some of you may be aware that a couple of blog posts and internet stories have popped up today about Pastor Robert and Gateway Church regarding something from over 35 years ago. I want to provide you with a statement from our elders and from Pastor Robert so you would know the absolute thoroughness and transparency of the situation and so that you can provide this response and context. The statement is to empower you with a response if someone inquires, not as something to proactively send out to people.
If a congregation member wants to talk further about anything, please direct them to your campus pastor. If a media outlet contacts you, please direct them to Lawrence Swicegood.
Thank you everyone.
(Elder statement)
https://ibb.co/YNsN305
Also, Leonardo Blair from The Christian Post interviewed Cindy.
https://www.christianpost.com/news/pastor-robert-morris-confesses-to-moral-failure.html
Key graph for me, refuting the Elder Statement
“The survivor made it clear to CP that Morris did not get her father’s blessing to return to ministry.
“My father never ever gave his blessing on Robert returning to ministry! My father told him he’s lucky he didn’t kill him. I am mortified that he is telling the world my dad gave his blessing! Of course, we forgive because we are called to biblically forgive those who sin against us. But that does not mean he is supposed to go on without repercussions,” she said.”
https://www.christianpost.com/news/pastor-robert-morris-confesses-to-moral-failure.html
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Tom Rubino,
“Freedom” as in “I didn’t have to go to jail or otherwise answer legally for this crime that I committed.”
(Really, though… my guess is that it’s their name for a “deliverance ministry,” which could itself warrant a lot of talk.)
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I don’t care if the father forgave him. How does the grown-up 12-year-old girl feel about it now? I don’t care if he’s been “restored” – and I don’t believe he has “walked in purity” from that time. Has the grown-up 12-year-old girl received the counseling and support she needs? Who is paying for that? Who is taking care of HER?!?!? This horrible man did a horrible thing and he should never have been near a pulpit (or people, especially young female people) again. Always, always, let’s center the pastor, the man, his situation. Let’s be quiet about the wreckage left in the man’s wake. It’s sickening.
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Muslin, fka Dee Holmes,
Exactly…. The “young lady” title is just part of the whole, disgusting situation….. errrrr
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FreshGrace,
“And it makes me question why God allows monsters like this to continue to blaspheme his Holy name and his precious church.”
+++++++++++++++
yes, it’s thought-provoking.
my view is things like predestination & “God is in control” and “God works all things out for good” & how these things inform a religious person’s view of everything cultivate lack of personal responsibility. in its place is a sort of magical mindset.
my parents’ generation sort of had this mindset, with the ‘imminent rapture’ as a bonus un-motivator for personal responsibility.
quite frankly, i have no respect for it. on principle, but also because other people have to deal with the mess they left and pay for it.
(just like the teen agers at the skate park who leave 50 pizza boxes without a thought about who will clean it up)
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None. Zero. The clarity of this statement is universal truth.
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“Deliverance Ministry” = LARPing being Mighty Demon Fighters in an early Frank Peretti novel.
When all you have is a Deliverance Minstry Hammer, Everything looks like Demon possession.
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“Left foot of fellowship” makes me laugh every time. Not that the situation is funny; it’s horrifying.
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Bene D, if you track sermons of predators before they are exposed, you will find many have groomed their congregations to see them as victims and to praise their “vulnerability.”
It sometimes encourages victims to trust them with their own stories of victimization which gives the predator pastor even more leverage over those who trust him.
The chief identifying trait of an abuser is that they present themselves as victims. Anna Salter addresses this in her book Predators.
My guess is that Morris is admitting to molesting (though lying and revising history) so that people will be shocked but see him as being honest. This strategy is an attempt to distract people for looking for the iceberg of criminality and evil he wants to remain hidden.
Predator pastors are 24/7 about image management.
So grateful for Cindy’s courage and I can only imagine the horror for her and her family!
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Islam also teaches heavy-duty Predestination. Look where it got them.
When the World Ends soon (as in Any Minute Now) and It’s All Gonna Burn, don’t expect anyone to dare great things, plan for the (nonexistent) future, or take any personal responsibility (other than keeping their nose squeeky-clean and Pure to pass the Rapture Litmus Test).
And the Rapture/Tribulation/Armageddon chnrology and choreography has been defined so tightly in such OCD detail even God has no wiggle room to do anything original. Everything has been Predestined as tightly as it can — “It’s Prophesied! It’s Prophesied!” It’s a Cosmic-level Escape Fantasy followed by a Cosmie-level Revenge fantasy, nothing more. Atlas Shrugged, Except CHRISTIAN(TM)!
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“In March of 1987, this situation was brought to light, and it was confessed and repented of. I submitted myself to the Elders of Shady Grove Church and the young lady’s father. They asked me to step out of ministry and receive counseling and freedom ministry, which I did. Since that time, I have walked in purity and accountability in this area,” Morris added. Christian Post article.
So Morris expects us to believe he had someone regularly asking him if he had sexually assaulted any minors again? He sounds like an idiot and Swicegood and company need to step up their PR game.
As if predators whose lives are built on deceit will be honest about their behavior! He is playing us for fools which is usually a safe bet in church scandals.
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nmgirl,
Can they sue for defamation as it makes them look like they had no wish to hold him responsible for criminal behavior. Discovery is a gift to truth tellers.
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What’s the numbers? As in how many has he done compared to how many you hear about?
That kind of kink DOESN’T go away.
Especially as the kinkee gets old- he keeps getting older and older, his Appetites stay the same age, and he can convince himself “I’m Still Young! Really! I Am! I’m Young! I’m Young! I’m Young!”
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Divine Emperor of Rome?
Sultan of the Ottoman Empire?
Head of the NKVD?
Commander of Holy Gilead?
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Found it!
https://gatewaypeople.com/freedom-ministry
Classic evangelical speak.
Get saved
Get baptized in the Holy Spirit
Get rid of the demons
Get discipled
Get with the program
Shallow, insular, assumptive, supercilious, nothing trauma informed or mental health oriented etc.
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Did any notice No Eden Elsewhere’s photo collages on Twitter last night? So many colleagues.
She also has a photo of him speaking at a high school assembly. What did that very young man have to say to teenagers? It looks like his access to minors was not limited to his ministry work.
Morris’ statement reminds me so much of Ravi’s and we know still only a portion of his iceberg of evil. Situations like this are ALWAYS worse than they appear: Hybels, MacDonald, Bickle, etc.
No research supports the assumptions that Cindy is his only victim. Her courageous exposure may help another victim come forward. Such respect for Cindy!
@Dee, is there a way to add a number for people to call if they are victims of Morris? My guess is that he has enough support/involvement with local law enforcement that reports could be “managed.”
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Is this the obvious question? She came forward when she felt comfortable enough sharing this part of her story. And his response is him admitting guilt…
These types of question are a HUGE reason men and women never come forward after they’ve been sexually assaulted. If someone came forward 40 years later and talked about how they were robbed at gunpoint, you wouldn’t have asked this question. Please consider how hurtful this way of thinking is for a survivor, and refrain from asking questions that attempt to discredit what they’ve been through. Thank you <3
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Bene D,
Henry Cloud was also therapist to Hybles and MacDonald. Just sayin…Also, you aren’t supposed to sell your books at your clients’ churches during your speaking engagements. Ethical considerations and dual relationships are not allowed by licensing boards. Unless you are Tim Clinton and the AACC and their cronies. Funny how professional guidelines are ignored in churches.
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2121blessedway,
I am sorry to hear you were assaulted. Has your story been published anywhere? I would like to hear more.
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Predator preachers are amongst the lowest of the low.
Having said that, your perspective as an insider is compelling.
Redemption is the point after all.
I believe that redemption is all about this life. There is no personal afterlife, although there is certainly a collective afterlife.
As others have pointed out, we should focus on the welfare of the victims, not the tears of the felon.
A big question is, have there been more victims despite the confessional tears? Has he really stopped?
Now we need to know.
Thank you for your perspective.
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Bene D,
Is this a recent admission? He’s had multiple affairs in the past. That’s old news.
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Because sometimes you shove what happened so far back in your head that it doesn’t come loose for decades. I had that happen to me when I was talking to Dee one day several years ago and she asked me a question. The incident had happened over 50 years ago and I had most thoroughly forgotten it.
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Stay home Sunday, save 10 percent.
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BZ,
Thanks for providing more insight on this matter. I hope others will extend grace as they would like it extended to them. This is a difficult situation for everyone.
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It is the law in Oklahoma that matters since that is where they crimes took place. They were crimes then. Note there is apparently no statute of limitations now for child sex abuse crimes in Oklahoma as of a new law in 2019, but, it is not retroactive for crimes that had previously expired. He cannot be prosecuted.
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Jacob L,
“I have to ask the obvious question.
Why come forward now?”
+++++++++++++++++++
well, i can explain me, at least.
it was like i rationally knew it happened (when i was 8), while simultaneously it didn’t happen, or i didn’t acknowledge it happened or in denial it happened or ….
hard to put in words – but 2 complete opposite things being true at the same time. like a yin-yang image.
then, 20 or so years later, i’m riding in the car with my mom and all of a sudden i realize what happened. as instantaneous, unexpected, and out of the blue as bird suddenly sh|t landing on your head.
and it was like “oh, hey. x, y, z happened when i was 8.” dispassionately at first.
then like foreboding music beginning to murmur and crescendo slowly in a movie, it dawned on me what it meant.
then the pain and rage… finally, a focus.
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elastigirl,
“…bird suddenly sh|t landing…”
++++++++++
sorry, it’s like the 2nd line of a haiku, or something…
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elastigirl,
..and then the info is passed around a bit to a few other family members…
before i know it it’s used against me as a convenient excuse for why i’m not accommodating with toxic extended family members. (not my immediate family).
no, i call you out on your bullsh|t because you’re narcissistic, arrogant, selfish, and cruel.
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Nothing in the American church surprises me anymore. But it’s becoming clearer why Robert Morris didn’t have a big problem with bad-boy Mark Driscoll.
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Why come forward now?
Cindy did come forward in 2007 trying to bring a civil suit to cover the cost of her decade of counseling. Morris’ attorney said she was flirtatious AKA victim blaming. She has not been quiet. What have been her options for disclosing this? She didn’t sign the DNA.
She is willing to go up against a well oiled, well funded machine with much to lose and many other leaders hoping not to be exposed. She did this despite watching what happens when victims publicly expose revered leaders.
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BZ,
What he has not done is take responsibility for the anguish he CAUSED.
I am not impressed by his blubbering about how he feels.
If he really sorry he will do everything in his power to restore the innocent people he has harmed.
Not garner sympathy for himself.
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Riley,
“She is willing to go up against a well oiled, well funded machine with much to lose and many other leaders hoping not to be exposed. She did this despite watching what happens when victims publicly expose revered leaders.”
++++++++++++++++++++++++
cindy and deborah from the other recent post (ACNA) are very courageous, indeed.
there is every reason for public support to be behind them. the stories needs to reach the public.
stop the sacred shenanigans.
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IMO, the elders at Shady Grove Church didn’t have their spiritual heads screwed on straight when they “restored” Morris to ministry. Likewise, elders at Gateway Church don’t have their spiritual heads screwed on straight if they don’t handle this the right way. Problem is, like so many personality-driven churches, Gateway = Morris … if Morris is done, Gateway is done … and the elders know it.
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BZ,
What about Morris’s victims???
I saw nothing in your comment that even hinted of concern for them.
Wow. Talk about rallying ‘round around the perp!
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dee,
Why did her parents not call the police? Why did the elders at Shady Brook or Gateway not call the police? This young woman was not protected by her parents or elders. The only person that received protection was Robert Morris.
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Max,
My thoughts also
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nmgirl,
That report is false. Cindy’s father wanted to rip Robert to shreds and in no way approved of his getting back to faking as a pastor .
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Thanks Riley, well put.
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Why do you think this? Read my original post. Gateway is aligned with the ARC, which has an unfortunate history of sexual abuse by pastors. This man has consistently lied in his sermons and books throughout the years. Why do you think he has now aligned himself with good people? I believe Gateway will be in for more heartache in the future.
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The elders at Shady Church should realize like King David we too will repeat this so called pastor’s story over and over again as a warning to young men and to encourage young girls to tell. Parents and police, but tell. And like King David he should heed Nathan’s words from God: “because by this deed you have given great occasion to the enemies of the Lord to blaspheme.” 2 Samuel 12:14
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I don’t blame a therapist for his/her clients not doing the work of healing like MacDonald, McCloud is a celebrity therapist who I suspect has a fair number of narcissists etc. as clients. Functional and well people don’t seek out a psychologist.
Robert Morris has his website all set up. His media ministries, give button, merch…if he steps down because he has been exposed as an abuser, he is ready to rumble and his son is set up to take over as lead pastor at the church.
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That poor girl’s life was ruined while Morris became rich doing marriage seminars.
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Muslin, fka Dee Holmes,
Actually he CAN be prosecuted in Texas because the laws have changed since she initially tried. She can contact the district attorney tomorrow if she’d like because There is no statute of limitations for indecency with a child or for the sexual assault of a child in Texas. Therefore, Robert Morris CAN be prosecuted for either crime at any time, regardless of how long it has been since the event.
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Muslin, fka Dee Holmes,
Actually he CAN be prosecuted in Texas because the laws have changed since she initially tried. She can contact the district attorney tomorrow if she’d like because Robert Morris CAN be prosecuted for either crime at any time, regardless of how long it has been since the event.
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People, run don’t walk away from ‘churches’…..you do not need a preacher, pastor or priest to tell you about God. That should be, and is, a ‘do it yourself’ project. You don’t need to sit in a fancy church building to find God…..just go out in Nature and admire the world God created. Love people, don’t hate them. Experience your life NOW, don’t ‘wait to be happy’ in some future Heaven. This is IT, folks!
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I went and read the Texas statute myself and I am unsure that is the case. The law has a couple of loopholes in it (must be 14 or younger and at least two incidents must have taken place within 30 days of each other). Plus, I have since learned this occurred in Oklahoma. I have no idea why Texas was just stuck in my head.
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Jacob L,
I’ll state what isn’t obvious from Cindy’s story. She “came forward” several times in years past to Christian “leaders” asking for help. Nobody would help her. These leaders encouraged her to forgive and keep her story quiet, refusing to take steps to hold the Pastor Morris accountable. She finally told her story to a Christian pastor who knew that she was strong, could handle the forthcoming and expected questions like yours, and silence was to be complicit in the cover up. The letter sent out from Gateway neglected to mention the child was 12 when the abuse began, that Robert was married, was preaching the gospel for pay (youth revivals), and continued the sexual abuse with “the young lady” for nearly half a decade. This isn’t moral indiscretion. This is statutory rape of a minor, punishable by up to 30 years in prison. The Apostle Peter said judgment must begin in the house of God. It should remembered that people who love Jesus and His church guided Cindy on how to ensure future perps in the pulpit are be stopped dead in their tracks when even a treatorous thought of predatory behavior enters their heads. They’ll remember what happened to Robert Morris. Sexual predatory behaviors by church leaders carry a stench that no amount of incense or success can erase. Be sure. Your sins will find you out.
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Good points and damn good questions.
Fundagelicalism is a fear-based religion.
Fear of looking bad and fear of upsetting the nice neat apple cart.
Child sex abuse is not spoesta’ happen in our nice neat enclaves, it only happens in the ‘unsaved’ world, so we’ll just pretend it doesn’t happen in our circles.
In my opinion, they were just too afraid to make waves.
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Hey Jacob, you know that tutor you had who unsuccessfully attempted to help you pass your G.E.D.? The same guy who told you there are no stupid questions?
He was wrong.
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2121blessedway,
I hope you are ok today. I’m so sorry this happened to you. I pray for deep healing, peace and truth revealed. Xo
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Dee, do you think Robert Morris should be sent to prison? A serious question. Sen
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BZ,
Yes. This.
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elastigirl,
I am not surprised at all by your story…. Your response to your abuse makes complete sense to me…. Especially your willingness to call out BS by others in your extended family circle, and the having more bird pop thrown at you…..
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Dolly Webber,
As once a father to a girl (she is now adult), I would want to rip him apart as well
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Wade Burleson,
Preach it!!
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Muff Potter,
I can state that i have personally experienced the EXACT same culture in Fundagelicism..
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BZ,
I appreciate your willingness to comment here and offer an insider’s perspective on Gateway, and on Morris. However, I feel the need to push back on some of the things you’ve said.
If you truly think that Morris has been some kind of shining example of vulnerability and humility during his career, then I think you’ve been had. I’m fairly certain that it’s all been an act, to groom you and other congregants into believing that he’s someone who’s repentant and fully made amends.
If Morris had truly repented of his crimes against this girl, he’d have confessed to the cops and gone to prison. And if he’d fully intended to be transparent with his congregants, he wouldn’t have shaded the truth about his felonies all these years.
You say he’s seen this day coming, and has been preparing to step down? Why didn’t he do it ages ago? Didn’t he realize that his crimes against one of Jesus’ little ones had disqualified him?
As for ‘surrounding himself with good people’, I don’t buy that for a moment. ‘Good people’ wouldn’t be minimizing his crimes, or allowing him to put out such a self-serving and misleading statement to congregants who need the truth.
One more thing. You said, “it’s a hospital for sinners, not a showcase for the saints”. Well, that’s a lovely saying.
So what is Gateway Church for (alleged) felons like Morris? A den of thieves?
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Oklahoma Citation: Ann. Stat. Tit. 10A, § 1-2-101:
“Every person who has reason to believe that a child is a victim of abuse or neglect must report.”
The elders at Shady Grove Church failed their responsibility as mandated reporters of child sexual abuse. This is more than a sin to be forgiven or a minister to be restored … this is a crime in all 50 States.
Folks if you are aware of this in your congregation, don’t call the church office, call 911!
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Bro. Wade–AMEN and thank you!
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Wade Burleson,
Exactly! Thank you Brother Burleson for “preaching” it like it is. Any effort by any minister or ministry to do otherwise is not staying true to Christian faith or State law.
This is a sad day for the Body of Christ and a warning to every church leader to walk pure and holy from the beginning of your ministry to the end of it. None of you are too big to fail, none of your ministry kingdoms are that important to be protected by the Kingdom of God, no matter what … so live like it before Jesus and His Church!
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I know Scripture says “The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father” … but in this case, Gateway should seriously reconsider their pulpit transition plan.
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All across America, as media and cyberspace spread the news, a lost world has been given yet another reason to look at the church and say “See, there’s nothing to it.”
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Overworked Christianese which just doesn’t cut it in this case, BZ! Sinful pulpits take advantage of trusting pews … Morris has for decades!
Scripture says “There are none good, no not one” … Christendom was shocked to learn that one of their best has just not been that good. What do we really know about the yes-men who have surrounded him, who have already jumped to defend him, who most likely knew the details of his abuse to a young child, who protected him for decades as Gateway and Morris grew to mega-status … as he prospered while his victim grieved and struggled through life?
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Wolves in sheep’s clothing? Nah, the wolves have found it more prosperous to dress in shepherd’s clothing.
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… an offer from someone whose net worth is in the millions … an amount that is just a small fraction of tithes and offerings gathered each Sunday at mega-Gateway.
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I would advise them to look around them this morning at Gateway at the multitude of 12-year old girls in their mega church … perhaps walk over to kid’s church and witness what a child looks like first hand … then think more seriously about this awful news.
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Jacob L,
Why continue to hide this crime?
In her own words, the woman wanted help with the expenses of the counseling she went through.
Instead of sensitivity, she was met with an NDA and a pitance was offered.
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Todd Wilhelm,
🙂
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He should have gone to prison for his crime. “Can he now?” is the question. If anything in the law can be applied to this situation, I would be thrilled. I would hope you would share that sentiment.
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Wade Burleson,
Great comment, Wade. Thank you for focusing on Cindy, Robert Morris’s victim. I worry when a few people look for anything to justify Robert Morris’ behavior. I am grateful that some Gateway folks are getting this.
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BZ,
But he has not been ‘so open’ about his past. He still isn’t – by calling her a young lady, and saying that the father and family forgave him. He may have known it was coming for a long time, but he should have stepped away and told the truth many years ago.
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That is the law now but what was the law back in 1987? Also some states give or gave quite a bit of leeway on clergy reporting/not reporting.
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Roger Hollister,
rAmen!
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I’m not the Dee you’re asking, but I think that Robert Morris should get what every other criminal defendant gets–a trial before a jury of his peers who will decide his guilt or innocence. And then the appropriate punishment if convicted.
Personally, and he doesn’t need a conviction for this, I’d like to see Morris off on a desert island where he can’t harm people.
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2121blessedway,
That needs to be reported!
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Muslin, fka Dee Holmes,
I am “appalled” any one would call a 12 year old girl, in pajamas, a “young lady” in this situation.
Anyone that used this term is guilty of enabling abuse/molestation/rape of younger age child. PEROID.
As I have stated before, because I use my real name, I self moderate my comments… What I really want to say about these “leaders” probably would not pass the censors..
A 12 YEAR OLD GIRL?….
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To the back then young teenager and woman now:
Your experience of shame and betrayal with someone you looked up to trusted and admired was painful. Those memories remain even if you’ve forgiven. I pray that God washes away the pain of those memories and replaces them with His love mercy healing and restoration of your soul. I also pray healing and prosperity to your soul and body.
To Roberts wife, Debbie: Your experience of betrayal and infidelity was painful and it’s a miracle and by the grace of God that your marriage was restored and healing took place. I pray for God’s continual mercy and power in you and your marriage. These experiences must have tested and strengthened the 3-cord relationship between God, you, Robert.
To Robert: We all know you were wrong and guilty. I’m sure your charisma and zeal for the Lord brought you before other leaders to lead. But in your early 20’s, its apparent you were an immature Christian and had personal areas that hadn’t been freed. Anyone in their young 20’s needs discipling and maturing before being put in leadership even when God has anointed them for ministry. Male frontal brains don’t even fully mature until their later 20’s. This must’ve been a shameful and humbling experience for a person with charisma, an anointing to minister and gifts from God. This experience would cause one to remain humble and always continuing to look to Jesus as their source. One who is aware of being forgiven much loves much. One who becomes aware of ones own weakness relies more on God. Many lives have been reached for Jesus over the decades since your early 20’s as you continued to minister. I pray that Christ in you continues to keep you humble and continues you in the path God has for you with all His Grace and Power.
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Disturbing : I cannot find where he studied and if he studied theology. He was 19 years old when he started his church. How can he serves as chancellor of The King’s University if he did not study ? Mac Arthur had some problem but I believe he wanted to be the Director of his university. “Despite his public persona, Robert Morris maintains a sense of privacy when it comes to his personal life”. Well not so much if he confessed before a huge public of his “failure or problem”.
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“If kids got raped by clowns as often as they get raped by preachers, it would be against the law to take your kids to the circus.”
Attributed to @fakedansavage with a link to the Christian Post article about Robert Morris’ “confession” of his Oops moral slip caused by a “flirtatious” “young lady” way back in the day BEFORE the good pastor’s restoration to be the man of God he truly is.
In other words, whatever just “happened” back then with that “flirtatious” “young lady” is “not who I really am,” as they say. “I am not THAT guy.”
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Sorry this happened to you.
“This pastor” meaning the pastor indicated in this post?
And his son meaning the one who will take over the ministry as dad pastor steps down?
So the church gets 2 for 1, two predators from one and the same family in leadership?
And Preacher Dad Senior predator has raised his son to be Preacher Son Junior predator?
Is the leadership at this “church” a legion of predators?
Remember when Harrison Ford AKA Indiana Jones landed in an underground cavern that was a snake pit? Comes to mind here.
Meanwhile the churchfolk forked over $117M and counting for this? Complicit. Nothing like supporting a predator pedophile, “in the name of God.” Complicit. What tithes support. Evil. Crime. Crimes against children. Those who bankroll this are complicit.
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https://baptistnews.com/article/breaking-news-paul-pressler-died-and-the-sbc-said-nothing/
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Muslin, fka Dee Holmes,
There is no statute in Texas or Oklahoma for sexual crimes. He should be brought on charges.
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Did any speakers at gateway mention this today?
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Nancy2(aka Kevlar),
It seems the SBC, with megas & minis & middles, is having a mega moment. Whether they want to admit it or not, since they are making no more sound than our mega sun setting without fanfare on the distant horizon. In a silent moment, it disappears on us.
Not unlike a certain m*g* mega in the DFW area having their own mega moment.
Is this a thing?
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Everyone who backs up the predator preacher pedophile, either in mouth or money, is complicit. $117M is a whole boatload of complicit underlings bankrolling a monster criminal who violates children and silences the ones who come forward with NDAs.
The monster’s boat is afloat, full sail. Let that truth “sink” in, bankrollers and boat rowers, who are the ones keeping this enterprise buoyed and in business. They own this.
The predator preacher pedophile’s tithers pay for the NDAs and pricey legal counsel to SILENCE TRUTH and REALITY – who this guy really is and what he is about.
Tithers can’t get their money back. Tithers could learn a lesson from this.
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good point.
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BZ,
he teaches a form of prosperity gospel in that God requires us to ties and only then will we be blessed
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i think he went to Criswell College.
He started Gateway in 2000 or 2001, so he would have been 39 or 40.
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Haven’t church leaders always been mandated reporters everywhere? … just as teachers and doctors?
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Riley,
Don’t worry; I’m sure Swicegood “The Fixer” is in full damage control and giving very strict directives to all of the Gateway Staff (and Elders….LOL)..
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I truly feel sorry for the good folks at Gateway who are faced with this. Many who comment here have felt the sting of deception, disappointment and disillusionment. They know what it’s like to experience the shock of such news, to learn of a pastor’s moral failure and a victim’s struggle. May God help Gateway membership through this difficult time in the days ahead.
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2121blessedway,
All these men should never be in ministry in any form.
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Put him out of ministry.prosecute him.
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“But, but I have to say this, um, I’m really concerned about how much time people spend on the Internet. I’m extremely concerned about it. Extremely concerned about it; here’s one thing, just even the blogs that mention Christian leaders, and I’m one of ‘em. Praise the Lord, I’ve made the Satan, Satan’s hit list now you know …” (Robert Morris)
https://wthrockmorton.com/2015/09/27/gateway-pastor-robert-morris-calls-blogs-satans-hit-list/
Now we know why Mr. Morris didn’t want Gateway members tuning into the blogosphere.
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Oh, God will help, and it’s not “difficult”. Good grief. Whining much?
Difficult would describe the experience of the ones who were victimized and survived. (They don’t always survive.)
The question, for any and all church engagement, is always: Whom shall I serve? Lord Pastor or the Lord Jesus.
The book of Acts is full of snake oil salesmen. A step further, the religious leaders of Jesus’ day executed the Son of God!
If we as churchfolk don’t seriously consider whom and what we follow, we are no better than the executioners of our Lord!
That’s not “difficult”, oh poor pitiful us. It’s reality. It’s our God-given agency. It’s on us. We’re adults making adult decisions, for goodness sake.
The 12 year old attacked by the godman monster for FOUR years in her own bed in her own home – that’s difficult and outrageous.
Churchfolk, grow up! Make good adult Christian decisions. When you fail, own it, and like Zacchaeus, thank Jesus for forgiveness AND repay & make right by those offended.
Not difficult. Jesus died on the Cross for this. Jesus did the hard part so stop whining.
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He’s walked in purity?? He did more than that-he stomped all over purity.
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I think we can safely conclude that Morris’s mega-church-honcho days are drawing to a close.
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This alleged “god” guy sure is a failure. He hires the likes of falwel jr, swaggart, jack schappe, etc. He is a total failure and as George Carlin said-if this was his performance he would have been out on his arse-so why ain’t god out in the same manner.
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Max,
Next best option for Gateway Church;
1. Robert Morris resigns immediately.
2. Gateway elders all resign.
3. James Morris is deselected as next Gateway Pastor. Nepotism here is out of order.
4. New experienced Pastor & elders board are put in place ASAP.
5. Gateway church is saved & moves forward.
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A pastor’s “moral failure”? We’re back to that again?
How about criminal enterprise?
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And walks away with $117M. Call that repentance and restoration?
Are we going to see comments about his poor wife, family, kids, etc.? So “difficult” for them, confused and unaware with their disillusionment…
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Im not that big of an insider, but the people I know on staff personally are good people. And I know for a fact that moral terpitude on staff is not tolerated though I cant speak on allegations mentioned in these comments that I know nothing about.
The number of times RM talked about accountability measures placed on himself is way up there.
Having said that, I dont know what I dont know. If the elders were aware of the age of the victim all along, then that fundamentally changes everything regarding the future of the church, horribly so.
My uneducated guess is that only he—and debbie 🙁 —knew the age of the victim.
Im not familiar with facts on ARC. thanks. ill read.
About the age of Cindy, or is there something more?
I believe Gateway will be in for more heartache in the future.
No doubt about that.
IMO There’s nothing RM can say or do at this point to salvage his rep.
I have to admit that all of this is pretty painful for me on so many levels. Facing facts is not easy. I have a lot to process. Best if I bow out for now.
Hang in there.
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BZ,
I meant to put that in block quotes.
BZ,
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FreshGrace
Don’t blame God; He has already said what will happen to men who molest children. It’s up to RM to do the correct thing and resign.
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Some don’t agree.
From @SouthlakeIndep1:
“The ‘elders’ in this church, here in my hometown, have said they all knew about it. They have praised the child rapist Robert Morris for his ‘transparency.’
“And they still want people to treat them like a respectable institution.”
There are also a number of tweets about Morris building his fortune based on the false Prosperty Teaching of give your tithes to guarantee your blessing from God. Unfortunately, in all that give-to-get theology, it’s only Morris that ends up with $117M, off of THEIR giving due to his false teaching.
Will Morris repent, correct his teaching and give it back? Zacchaeus repented and gave back 4x what he had falsely collected. Zacchaeus also served Jesus dinner at his house.
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“You should listen to the NBC podcast called ‘Southlake,’ or read the book ‘They Came for Our Schools.’ Scary stuff.”
– more from @SouthlakeIndep1
And replies to @SouthlakeIndepen1
“Seriously?”
@SouthlakeIndepen1: “Yes, every word. Gateway Church here in #Southlake, TX.”
Reply: “How do people not go and get up to scream pedophile every week?”
@SouthlakeIndepen1: “It’s gonna start now, for sure.”
So, TWW, stay tuned. It seems there’s more to come. Someone woke a sleeping dog* (monster?) enterprise.
*(We like dogs.)
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Are you serious! No one needs to direct their post or comment to the church! This Church is insane! If I’m a member I don’t need to direct my comments to you or God!
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From crowned royalty in the SBC to “Pressler who?” … legacy.
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Thousands of Morris followers are experiencing the same thing today, BZ. That is the problem when a church is built around celebrity personality. When celebrities fail, their followers agonize. I wish the best for you in the days ahead.
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Agreed … much more than moral failure.
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Mark,
Agreed. You describe the only path forward to salvage the various ministries at Gateway – it’s scope is mega indeed. More than 100,000 people attend at multiple campuses each weekend; some will still worship Morris no matter what – others will want to see prompt actions that are pleasing to God. But, as I mentioned earlier, Gateway = Morris … it will be tough moving on from here. In the past, when the name Gateway Church was dropped in Christendom, most immediately thought Morris, not Jesus … and that never works for a ministry over the long run.
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You don’t have to be a prophet or the son of a prophet to call that one, Muff.
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How does anyone know that for sure? Because Pastor told them that?
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Yes, the worst victims of all are those directly impacted by a church leader’s sin. They are the ones who need to be embraced by the Body of Christ, rather than scorned. They need the love of Christ demonstrated through His church to rescue, recover and restore.
I also count as secondary victims all those at Gateway who put their trust in Mr. Morris … who, today, have felt the awful sting of deception. Many who comment here know their pain. So I pray for them, too.
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Max,
Yup….
Like scorning the “12 year old girl”, by calling her a “young lady”…. Excuse me as I throw up…. And wish my “you know what” went all over the “church leaders” that called her a “young lady”….
And these clowns, including all the SBC leadership that is now ignoring Paul Pressler’s death, EXPECT me to listen/respect them!!!!
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I am going to assume you are well-meaning. But you do not understand the situation.
It is a sin to do what Morris did to Cindy. It would be a sin if he had done the same thing to an adult woman he wasn’t married to.
But what he did to Cindy was more than a sin. Think about this for a while: *Normal* sinful men are not sexually attracted to little girls. The wildest, womanizing dude in his early teens is not looking to have sex with children. He’s interested in sex with women.
Sexual attraction to children is not something that is a passing thing. That will remain a temptation (at best) and it typically results in more than one victim.
You are treating it as if it was a long-standing adulterous relationship with a consenting adult woman that happened 35 years ago. It is in a different category.
Jesus put it in a different category when he talked about it being better to have a millstone tied around your neck and be tossed into the sea than to cause one of these little ones to stumble. He did not say that about other types of sin. Little ones.
Your writing is essentially saying, “Well gee, look at all the good you were able to do.” It is a normal reaction when you’re trying to reconcile who you thought Robert Morris is with who you are learning he is. It will take time for it to sink in. But meanwhile, you are wounding Cindy and the likely other victims, like somehow any “good” he did somehow balances out the harm he did.
The man, rich as he is, was not willing to even pay for her therapy without and NDA silencing her forever! Think about that. And if signing an NDA was a condition of getting any kind of recompense for the financial cost of his harm toward her, are you certain there are not other little girls who were silenced? Are you certain that this “only” happened over 4 years with one girl?
If you focus on the victim, who is Cindy, you’ll get to the right place about what is good for Robert.
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I meant to type “early twenties,” not “teens.” Big difference. 13 is “early teens” and they are essentially peers. A 12 year old is not the peer of a man in his 20s.
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SUPER CHEAP is really embarrassing here. His congregation has fuelled his bank account, and he refuses to even pay for his victim’s therapies.
We must be out of ankle monitors here, for him to be going on about his life freely. And its hard to believe a whole group of elders could, once again, be so very,very, very stupid.
Pay her the money, buddy.
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… or perhaps only a brief intermission before the actor returns to stage to a standing ovation?
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Julia S,
Robert Morris guilty of abusing a 12 year old…… that is a crime…. a heinous crime!
Do you believe all males who commit federal crimes in their early twenties should be given free passes, ……
or is this just about giving Morris free passes on crimes he has committed?
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Muslin, fka Dee Holmes,
I’m not sure there is a statute of limitations on these admitted crimes.
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Really?
The real victims here are the silenced children violated in their own beds by a big authoritarian don’t you dare ask any questions do as I tell you godman.
FULLSTOP.
Adults with God-given adult agency being suckers and drawn to a snake oil $117M pulpit prosperity preacher predator may be dim and shallow and slow in learning their lesson but not victims. Their values get them there with a guy like $117M RM.
Without judging them for their poor decisions, who are we to give them a pass? Only God knows how the Holy Spirit warned and informed each of the supporters that propped this guy up. Only God.
Why are the supporters going to do something now? Because God never warned or informed them? No. It’s because Southlake and Robert Morris are blowing up the Internet right now at this very moment.
The little Southlake mega enclave’s secret is out and now they can’t stand the fact that they are fools gone global. Didn’t matter before. They were all in it together, enjoying their group swim in their toxic soup called church. Not do fun when the curtains are pulled back and this cult party is revealed for what it really is.
No judgment. No pass. God can do that. Guessing God’s Holy Spirit was working overtime to break it up in Southlake for decades until Wade Burleson and his wife bothered to listen to Cindy in Oklahoma, then gave her Dee’s name in Raleigh, then TWW, and here we are.
Three people that listened: Wade, Rachel (Oklahoma), Dee (Raleigh) to expose a cult hidden in DFW Texas.
3 listened. Took 35 years.
How many more have been warned and informed but were cowards? Only God knows.
Jesus said, “Forgive them for they know not what they do.”
Like Jesus, we can forgive. But hand out passes? We can’t do that. Each of us must reckon with what the Holy Spirit tells us in secret in our hearts, and we don’t act upon it, even BEFORE it blows up on the Internet (and then we’re to have a pity party for this glorified nonsense? Nope.) God knows.
Wade, Rachel, and Dee acted. How many more for decades did not? God knows.
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Nope. Doing some brief hunting but at least in the US the first mandated reporting laws started in 1963 and by 1967 all 50 states had some sort of law though each state has its own law. Physicians were the first group to become mandated reporters. A few states went for all being mandated reporters. Other groups added on later were nurses, teachers, police officers, social workers. In many states clergy did not become mandated reporters until much later (e.g., 2003 for Massachusetts after the Boston Globe reported issues in the local Roman Catholic diocese).
However Oklahoma as of 1978 does seem to have been one which listed various profession and then included all other people
Leonard G. Brown III & Kevin Gallagher, Mandatory Reporting of Abuse: A Historical Perspective on the Evolution of States’ Current Mandatory Reporting Laws with a Review of the Laws in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, 59 Vill. L. Rev. Tolle Lege 37 (2014).
Available at: https://digitalcommons.law.villanova.edu/vlr/vol59/iss6/5
also
Brian G. Fraser, A Glance at the Past, a Gaze at the Present, a Glimpse at the Future: A Critical Analysis of the Development of Child Abuse Reporting Statutes, 54 Chi.-Kent L. Rev. 641 (1978).
Available at: https://scholarship.kentlaw.iit.edu/cklawreview/vol54/iss3/3
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Muslin, fka Dee Holmes,
Please note the Statute of limitations has changed in TX. In 2023 Biden signed Bill S 3103. The Texas legislature has ameded our statute of limitations for the continuous sexual abuse of a child under 14 yo. ZERO statute of limitations for criminal charges and ZERO statute of limitations for a civil suit. I am Caroline Feherty Educator BA and licensed Victims Advocate CA. Please bring this important information to victims and their families. You can find me on LinkedIn.
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Please note the Statute of limitations has changed in TX. In 2023 Biden signed Bill S 3103. The Texas legislature has ameded our statute of limitations for the continuous sexual abuse of a child under 14 yo. ZERO statute of limitations for criminal charges and ZERO statute of limitations for a civil suit. I am Caroline Feherty Educator BA and licensed Victims Advocate CA. Please bring this important information to victims and their families. You can find me on LinkedIn.
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Ammended spell check sorry.
Caroline Feherty
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Ava Aaronson,
Ava, I believe that in every church there are good-hearted, Jesus-loving believers who have been truly deceived by church leaders. Jesus warned this would happen. The Wartburg Watch is populated by lots of them who have come out of a church mess, who comment here from their personal experiences to inform and warn others. I suspect that we will have Gateway ex-members rise up to add their voices to the discussion going on about the condition of the American church. The Done ranks are growing in leaps and bounds … done with wayward ministers and ministers, but not done with Jesus. I pray for them.
I appreciate your comments here and agree with you more than not.
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The inner ring of every wayward ministry is populated by yes-men who enjoy the power and privilege of being called “Elder.” Over the years on TWW, we’ve seen very few personality-driven churches with elder boards who have held bad-boy-pastors accountable.
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King David not only Committed Adultery but Killed the woman’s husband , and then married her and bore a child with her. But he is a man after Gods heart today. The lesson here is that he repented and publicly and the deed was made supper public ; like everyone reads about King David and Bathsheba. Bathsheba bore King Solomon who became the Lineage of Our Savior Jesus. I think Pastor Roberts problem is the shame and public disgrace. There is no other way it has to happen. Admitting publicly and honestly disarms the devil and really show real repentance like David, and in the end God makes something really good out of a bad situation. It is not easy. He can still do it now. No sin committed by whom ever is too bad. This is Exactly why Jesus died. cut the man some slack.
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Headless Unicorn Guy,
He’s obviously a pedophile and pervert. Once he’s been in her underpants the memory and thrill never goes away even he says there wasno penetration. Church should do the right thing and remove this pervert, Robert Morris, permanently.
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BZ,
Not once does he mention his concern for Cindy, then or now. She has had to live with this devastating hurt her whole life, from childhood to adulthood. He tries to massage the truth by saying she’s a young lady, He thinks it will go down better that way. No, she was a child. And if all this is true, Robert Morris is a child molester and should be designated as a sexual offender.
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Here we go again, dragging King David into a church mess! David was in the military, not the ministry. He was a king … not a prophet, priest, or pastor. Invoking David to cover the situation with Morris is wrong. We are living in New Testament days now … Jesus has come to seek and to save those who are lost, the Kingdom of Heaven is in the here and now, the Holy Spirit is available to empower all who believe to overcome temptation, to walk pure and holy lives. To whom much is given, much is required. The story of David has valuable lessons for all of us, but should not be used to defend a pastor who abused a child. There are no examples of a pastor in the New Testament who failed in this way being restored to the pulpit.
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Tom Rubino,
Freedom Ministry is a distinct type 9f deep counseling designed to help the person gain freedom feom their issues. It involves dealing with past traumas, hurts and issues that keep hold on a person. There are well respected people (Neil Anderson) and others who have written books and do counseling themselves. It also may involve freedom from the occultand/or demonic involvement. (I have been theough this type of counseling and it is very effective)
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David,
Seriously?? Cut him slack?? When Robert Morris is being deceptive and not owning up to the fact she was a 12 year old child! I can’t think that the Lord thinks too well of a person who doesn’t take responsibility for molesting a child. Or possibly even rape. How does a 12 year old child consent to being sexually abused.
It’s men in the church like you, who think someone can say a prayer of regret and the slate is wiped clean. It’s not. I’m so tired of these church pastors and elders who cover up sexual abuse. The Southern Baptists come to mind.
I’d be interested to know what he’s done for her to heal her from the physical and emotional trauma she has endured.
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Read Matthew 7
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Satan is glorified through your “ministry”, Wartburg Watch. Maybe it’s not really a ministry after all.
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David:
Women and children had no agency in the old testament, they were property.
Yes, David repented and lived with the consequences.
He lost four children. He lost the respect of his people. He lost his reputation.
As part of his repentance, Bathsheba was put under his protection.
Prince Andrew has faced severe consequences for his ties to Jeffrey Epstein, and his brother is imposing more. His bloodline to the royal family remains, but you won’t see him stepping back onto US territory or publicly performing a royal responsibility ever again.
He has lost his reputation, the respect of his people.
Bathsheba was an adult/married woman who was raped.
She had no rights to say no to a king, even men didn’t.
Cindy was 12 years old. No law in the USA or the worlds other 194 countries allow the sexual abuse of children, though age of consent and enforcement varies.
In the 21st century we understand the consequences of child sexual abuse to the individual, families and society.
Morris can repent, Jesus died for him, and the new testament is pretty clear about remaining in leadership.
There are consequences to sin, and to breaking US law, he is facing public disgrace for a reason.
What slack should he be cut?
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BZ,
I appreciate this, and I agree. I have been learning from his teachings online for 15 years. I figured the immorality was with an adult, and yes, he was always repentant. It’s tragic that he and no one else who surrounded him could see that keeping the extremely important detail of the age of the girl unknown, would eventually turn into this.
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Here is an article that needs to be shared. It gives first-hand info about survivor, Cindy:
https://istoriaministries.com/robert-morris/
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David,
Ditto what Max said.
Also, you failed to mention the facts that David and Bathsheba’s firstborn was struck by God with an illness and did not survive, and “the sword never left the the house of David”.
You need to read the rest of the King David story.
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Really? Why?
So all of these pedophile predator preachers are supported and bankrolled in our pulpits because God never warned and informed His Jesus loving people that something is off in the leadership?
Fact: you don’t know what goes on in all churches and neither do I.
But we do know that Jesus said those who love Him, hear Him, listen to His voice and follow Him, not the wolves in Shepherd’s attire.
To claim churchfolk are neither warned nor informed by God is selling God, God’s Word, and God’s Holy Spirit short.
Are there mega churches thoroughly corrupt as Sodom and Gomorah or the other cities God destroyed? Maybe. Do we ASSUME somewhere in the fold are buried some hidden Jesus-loving-listening people just because they call themselves a church? Maybe you do that. Not I. James 1 warns of the hypocrisy of asking for wisdom yet with doublemindedness not applying it. Evil. Double minded.
Neither you nor I know what churchfolk witness and how God informs and warns.
“Good-hearted Jesus loving people”
1. Know their Lord’s voice.
2. Are spoken to by God Himself.
Pewsitters and offering plate fillers supporting Lord Pastor the Scoundrel instead of listening to our Lord Jesus are THE PROBLEM here, too.
No pity party at Pentecost for their part in putting Jesus on the cross. Peter, following his own repentance for his cowardice, called them out to repent, too. Then the Holy Spirit entered so God’s law is written on men’s hearts.
The mercy is in the opportunity to repent and do the Zacchaeus 180. NOT in the denial of what went wrong, which is foolishness and fruitlessness. The tree planted in a pile of the garbage of denial will die, fruitless.
Granted, a person can visit a church in seeking. But $117M is not amassed by casual visitors.
And to quote your assumptions about churchfolk, “goodhearted Jesus-loving people” are neither casual nor uninformed. Anyone loving Jesus with a good heart is filled with God’s Spirit and in communication with God Himself. No excuses, no middle ground. Either the real deal or just another fake on a fast train to nowhere playing the church game with their scoundrel Dear Leader.
Jesus loves us and when we love Him back, He informs and warns us. The Holy Spirit, as promised, is our Guide and Comforter.
Church clubbers neither love nor serve Jesus, although they may have a good look. Good luck with that, come The Day.
Our spiritual standing before God, though always in formation until we meet Him in Eternity, is never neutral.
Back in the day, as a young professional, I was asked to testify in a child abuse DOJ court case. So were several church leaders. A pastor turned it down, as did a church board member. Both said they don’t get involved in such things. They both either had a repentance come to Jesus moment thereafter or they are in hell. Neither “loved Jesus” nor were they “good-hearted.” It’s that simple.
The “good-hearted Jesus lovers” in predatory scoundrel churches are not hiding out. They don’t exist.
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Max,
He abused a twelve year old. He should be in prison.
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Riley,
No. There is nothing defamatory about saying someone forgave you.
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Headless Unicorn Guy,
To suggest God cannot heal someone is the giant flaw in your logic. By definition, theists believe in a God who heals.
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Thank you for your comment.
Im not sure I understand this sentence. Could you clarify? If you don’t mind?
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yes this is excellent
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If you assumed that his victim was an adult, then he deceived you. All of you. For years. And if Morris was in the habit of deceiving you about his past, then he wasn’t repentant.
To me, repentance for having committed a felony means turning oneself in to the authorities, and going to prison. Robert Morris did none of those things.
Like I said to BZ earlier, you’ve been had.
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I appreciate that. Very much. This is awful on so many levels that its truly mind boggling.
I am hurt for Cindy. She has been failed by so many for so long.
Im pretty frustrated right now because I had just spelled out where Im coming from in a response to another comment and then my phone died!!
Im no stranger to abuse. There is a mountain behind those five words. It could fill books. Some of it is already in books.
This whole story has unearthed a lot of memories, some painful.
Cindy did the right thing. She’s been doing the right thing.
I dont know whats in RM’s head right now.
There are a lot of pitchforks out and I can see why.
This should have never taken place to begin with, obviously.
History would have been kinder to everyone if he’d been caught day one and faced justice.
Everyone including RM.
Thus the particular tragedy of statutory offenses — the young girl doesn’t know any better.
It doesnt matter how flirtatious or even sexually aggressive the child is, the ADULT is ALWAYS responsible.
In my profession I was in a position of power over children, teens.
Decades ago I knew one developmentally challenged girl who had been abused and we were warned that she had no sense of proper boundaries. Just heartbreaking.
on the flip side I know an adult who was the five year old victim. He blamed himself. Adults around him blamed him too!!
His counselor finally told him ” John!!!! You were FIVE YEARS OLD!! It wouldn’t matter if you [….not worth repeating…] the Adult is ALWAYS responsible!!! ”
I could spend hours on this.
I have a lot more to say on the subject.
The perpetuating cycle of abuse is so evil because it is so often perpetuated by minors themselves– innocence innocently passing down evil. The 8 year old victim becomes the 12 year old abuser to another 8 year old and on and on it goes.
Then they blow past the age of innocence and, continuing to do what’s “normal” to them, crimes are committed. And rarely caught.
id better stop before my phone goes.
thanks again for commenting.
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“This” was a crime, punishable by prison time, had this been properly handled at the time of the abuse. A reminder for every victim of sexual abuse by a church leader: “Don’t call the church office. Call 911!”
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Gateway membership are now facing that reality this morning. What will they do? Forgive and restore? Rebuke and remove?
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“DUDE! YOU! HAVE! SEX! WITH! CHILDREN!”
— South Park, “Cartman joins NAMBLA” episode, ending scene, Stan responding to every explanation and justification the NAMBLAns trot out
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Pretend it never happened, of course.
With long prayers and lotsa SCRIPTURE and a Standing Ovation.
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i.e. David had set a chain of events in motion that destroyed his lineage over time.
(The real meaning of those “Generational Curses” the Spiritual Warrior MOMMs bandy around.)
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Yes, it’s more than a forgiveness story … it’s a consequences story. Mr. Morris and Gateway elders are now faced with the consequences of a 40 year old sin … a period of time in which Morris prospered and Cindy suffered. Ministry success does not always mean that God’s favor is resting upon it; things are not always what they seem (e.g., Bill Hybels, Mike Bickle, Ravi Zacharias … etc. etc.)
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Given his long history of health issues (he had THREE major surgeries last year alone, including open heart surgery), this is how things MAY play out:
1. Morris never preaches during the summer. He always takes off and either has underlings do the sermons or lines up guest speakers. This is when he does his family vacations (and gets them paid for by lining up guest speaker opportunities for himself). So, him not preaching this summer isn’t unusual.
2. BUT, given his history of health issues and recent events, he may decide to step down (claiming it to be “for the good of Gateway Church”, and likely will use his health as the “official reason”). His middle child, James, has in recent years been taking more of the leadership reins, and probably will be named his successor. (To my knowledge, James doesn’t have any dirt on him, which may keep some of the members from bailing out.)
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He should have faced justice a long time ago & been incarcerated for (?) number of years & been out on probation (?) number of years and be designated an offender according to the laws at the time of prosecution.
His response two days ago was horrible, aside from the fact that he didnt deny it.
thanks for your comment. I hope this whole story doesnt evoke painful memories for you personally. thats why a lot of us are here.
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So no Tab A in Slot B, so that makes it OK in the Eyes of God.
WHERE HAVE WE HEARD THAT ONE BEFORE?
Remember Douggie ESQUIRE of Vision Forum and his favorite Act upon his Handmaid?
Falwell Junior instructing Pool Boy to do any act EXCEPT that One so he could watch?
“Christian Side Hug” (“Non-Genital Sex done to preserve Technical Virginity”) according to an online slang dictionary – the subject of the Garfunkel & Oates song “Loophole”?
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Not wanting to make this political, but the trend toward extending statute of limitations on sexual assault has historically taken place only in “blue” states. Oklahoma is a deep “red” state and likely hasn’t changed its laws at all.
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And the type of man who achieves fame and success in public — and has no clue whatsoever about how to be a husband and/or father in private.
And the harem polygyny expected of Kings in Semitic tribal culture sure didn’t help.
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Honey
You sadly demonstrate the Biblical teaching you have received through the years. Besides, it is not Satan but Stan, and I will leave you to figure that out.
What are they teaching in churches these days?
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I am not surprised, given the Bible Belt and the “Good Old Boy Network” and how close “Christians” are with the local and state GOP politicians. The Duggers being one famous example. You have a better chance of being groomed and molested in an Evangelical church than at a Drag Queen story hour. And the sex trafficking ring is more likely to be in the basement of a church than a pizza restaurant.
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Commonly known as “sabbaticals” in much of Christendom … time away to get visions and a great tan.
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I am not posting the comments I received claiming the victim is in this for the money.
Once again, these folks are demonstrating their lack of Biblical knowledge along with a view of child sex abuse that is mired in the early 1900s. Until such folks indicate that they have studied how victims of sexual abuse process and come forward with their abuse (usually 20-40 years later, then these comments will not be approved.
Thankfully, the vast majority of commenters get it.
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IMO, this would be a huge mistake for Gateway. Keeping the ministry in the hands of the Morris family would not be a good idea. Nothing against James, but not a good transition strategy considering the matter at hand.
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And that also ties to Karma, “What goes around comes around”, etc. And the Law of Unintended Consequences.
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“By the time she was 17 and told her parents what was happening, Morris was the pastor at Shady Grove Church, which is now the Gateway Church campus in Grand Prairie.”
https://www.fox4news.com/news/robert-morris-gateway-church-sexual-abuse
Shady Grove is now Gateway?! Shady Grove elders are now Gateway elders?! Hmmmm …
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It continues to amaze me that loyal followers of cults of personality rally to the side of an abuser, but seldom to the side of victims. Another symptom of an American church and churchgoers who just don’t get it.
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What are you doing Mr. Bush to shine light on sin in the camp … to rebuke and correct, to right the ship for the glory of God? You should be praising God for watchmen who inform and warn the Body of Christ. Be careful what you attribute to Satan without looking more closely where the great deceiver has really been working.
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Sunk Cost Fallacy, AKA The Con Man’s Friend.
A form of Grooming where the con man gets the suckers so Emotionally invested in the con that they not only won’t back out, they CAN’T back out. Because backing out means admitting to themselves (and those around them) that they fell for the con.
Sometimes (as in the “Hears of Francis Drake” con some 80-100 years ago) the suckers get so invested they will defend and support the con and the con man with all their being.
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I smell Sock Puppet (with Spiritual Warfare overtones).
Or yet another Heir of Francis Drake (see above).
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Don’t forget the Angel Encounter at a gas station in rural Wyoming, where the incognito Angel prophesies/commands your Return to Ministry (with Standing Ovation from all the Hosts of Heaven).
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Also explains the unending devotion and support for another Orange Dear Leader and dismissing his abuse as merely locker room talk. Same exact dynamic, believe the leader, dismiss and attack the victims, the DARVO playbook, etc.
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Does anyone know if James Robison has commented on this yet?
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So, I take it that you believe that it is not wrong, sinful, or illegal to sexually abuse children, and men who commit the crime of sexually abusing children should be protected and praised, in the name of God?
Mr. Bush, do you have any children? If you do, would you sacrifice them for the sexual pleasures of another, in the name of God?
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Max,
I wouldn’t disagree that it’s not a good idea, but likely that’s what happens. Dr. Ed Young retired and had his son take over. Same with Joel Osteen taking over after his dad dies.
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dee,
Honey…… that seems to me to be a good comparison label for a lot of “Christians” sometimes.
Honey can solidify and just get rock-hard. It takes a lot of heat and a lot of stirring to soften it and make it usable again.
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This is what throws me off about the whole incident.
I can understand the delay between the 1980s and 2005 (when she first asked Gateway for compensation – and $50K is nominal compared to their wealth, since 2005 was shortly after The Blessed Life became a best-seller and vaulted Morris into prominence). Trauma affects people differently. So, she may not have felt like she could come forward when things happened.
But what about between 2005 and now? That’s a NINETEEN-year gap. Why not go public after her offer was rejected? Maybe Morris doesn’t become the superstar preacher/speaker he is now if this comes out. This is why some folks may be questioning her motives.
Or has she been trying to tell her story all this time, only to be ignored until now?
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Shady Grove became the Gateway Grand Prairie campus around 2010 I believe. Originally Morris was going to be Griffing’s successor, but when Griffing decided not to step down as originally planned, Morris moved to Southlake and started Gateway. Then, when Gateway started opening other campuses (in some cases, by taking over struggling churches), Shady Grove joined the group.
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Max,
That’s the term they use (and I’ve heard it elsewhere).
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When you keep it all in the family, the gravy train keeps moving even after you retire. Church folks just don’t have a clue.
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Thank you for reiterating this.
Let me make clear that I absolutely get this.
In more ways than one. But reminders are helpful when processing something akin to the challenger explosion.
I have to admit that the speculation on timing hit my brain “Is this about the election? Is this about a book?” I guess its natural to speculate. But hurtful to assume and articulate.
I’m grateful for the pastor’s blog you posted earlier, the one who helped share her story.
Hang in there.
Cindy if you read this. Just know that I shed tears for you just now.
i’m just gonna go ahead and say it right now. years ago, my own mother was violated in a crowded bus by an unknown stranger. I don’t wanna say too much about it. But she reached out for help emotionally back in snail mail days. She received it. but she also got push back. Reprimanded by her higher ups.
yeah. I got more stories.
got appointments too.
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Max,
No disagreement. I simply posed what I believe will be the future timeline in this matter. Morris will use his recurring health issues to announce his “retirement”, have James take over main preaching duties at Gateway, step back for a while, then go on the speaking circuit.
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Patti,
Multiple affairs? I do not see verification.
But he is a child sexual predator and that is a crime. He continued his crime spree for 4.5 years. It is probably ongoing, but it may be digital now.
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BZ,
Crime without punishment. Don’t justify statutory rape of a child.
The father should have capped his knees and then reported him to the police. Justice has not been served. Who speaks for his victim?
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Trauma affects people differently. So, she may not have felt like she could come forward when things happened.
Mark R,
I used to be an MS/HS teacher. I saw first hand the reactions of two of my former students when the sexual abuse they had suffered was publicly exposed.
If the victim is not ready, not emotionally braced for it, it ain’t pretty. One of my former students had to be physically restrained to keep her from harming herself.
I have no doubt that it is more than hard even when a victim is prepared to go public.
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You are being generous. Morris better thank whatever god he serves (as it certainly isn’t the God of Scriptures) that he didn’t end up in a pine box courtesy of the victim’s dad. There is still time for that to happen, mind you. Think of Mr. Clark in the Tom Clancy novel, “Without Remorse.”
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HUG isn’t claiming that God can’t heal criminal perverts like Morris. He’s acknowledging the fact that most of them don’t choose to be healed.
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John Bush,
And exactly how is taking a stand that says “it is evil for a 20 something preacher to sexually molest a 12 girl, repeatedly, over many years”, AND over 30 years later calling this “12 year old GIRL a “young lady” “ to mislead with respect to actual facts???
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Jeffrey Chalmers,
I forgot to add, in my anger over this comment, “ How is taking this, stand of calling out the disgusting/depraved behavior sinful, or a work of Satan?? Excuse me??
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The Morris supporter was upset that TWW had touched ‘his’ (the supporter’s) anointed.
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Mark R,
And why not?! Doing church without God has become pretty common in America.
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I deeply appreciate that. I’d say ‘millions’ given the TV reach. Truth be known, “Gateway” and “RM” may be synonymous to outsiders. But I’ve never seen a mega church quite so deliberately built to not be centered around one man.
The future of the Gateway depends on how they handle this. Poorly so far.
I know of one man who could step in immediately, so long as its clear he was not aware of the age diff.
I pray thats the case.
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And Bob is Overspiritualizing.
“God lives in the Real World.” — Rich Buhler
(And for the Over-spiritual, the second line s/b “Why can’t you?”
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Same with Dear Leader Kim Jong-Il taking over after Great Leader Kim Il-Sung dies.
And Beloved Leader Kim Jong-Un taking over after Dear Leader Kim Jong-Il dies.
It’s called “Hereditary Monarchy”.
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I don’t mind.:^)
In a ‘sermon’ at Gateway in 2023 called Healing from Trauma, Morris talked about how the murder of his grandfather affected his mother, and her relationship to him as a boy. (PTSD?) He mentions he saw Henry McCloud a few years ago, four times a year to deal with his issues and tosses out to the congregation that he was sexually abused.
Do I believe him about the sexual abuse? I don’t know. For me his talk felt manipulative and agenda driven, some of what he said can be factually proven.
What I did get was some woundedness. He was a victim of emotional neglect and rejection and maybe or maybe not sexual abuse from someone outside the nuclear family.
I saw the honor/shame paradigm in full bloom.
To me an abuse victim remains a victim, stays silent, doesn’t reach out, lives with the symptoms and consequences. Or a victim may not be at a place to utilize the help they need or seek, or there may be underlying mental health issues that complicate seeking and receiving healing.
A survivor seeks help, to move toward a balanced life. An overcomer is someone who has done deep work and is equipped to help themselves and others.
We know many victims of abuse don’t seek help.
Morris did somewhat for his family wounds according to him.
I saw the piece after Cindy spoke out and frankly I think Morris has deep problems.
Morris is a rarer breed, someone who became an abuser, and seeing a therapist 4 times a year didn’t move him past the victim stage in my opinion. The intervention of people in his life like the elders was merely enabling.
Bob Hemp who worked at Gateway Church as a licensed therapist/pastor adds clarity to the individual and collective response needed.
https://x.com/bobhamp/status/1802543286126621182
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Nancy2(aka Kevlar),
My question was not the first period between the events and her 2005 request for compensation from Gateway/Morris for what happened. I’ve learned a lot on this site and others (e.g. Julie Roys) about how trauma can be sealed in one’s mind for years and even decades.
What is confusing me about this whole incident is this: after Gateway counter-offered and she rejected it, why did we hear nothing on this from her for the next NINETEEN years? Why did she not go public and tell what Morris did and how Gateway tried to silence her by lowballing and forcing an NDA? Did she try to tell her story only to be silenced repeatedly? Especially since, in the interim, Morris vaulted from relative unknown to international prominence with his Blessed Life books.
If not, then her 19 years of voluntary silence is why some will question her motives. Whether rightly or wrongly, they will.
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Mark R,
My bet is we are going to “hear allot of things” as this all unwinds…
To me, calling a 12 year old girl, and “young women”, is the nail in coffin… Contiuned attemtp to, to put it crudly, BS us… I am SOOO sick of “spirtual” BSing..
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Serving Kids in Japan,
BZ’s comment also seems to imply that Morris had other victims. If that is true, that is of great concern, and Morris probably has a number of other victims. I sat under one preacher who claimed to have had just one affair. The church let him go, and it was revealed later that he was a serial adulterer, passed from church to church within the denomination, around two different states. No one wanted to deal with who he really was.
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Mark R,
No one needs to question the victim’s motives. What is to be questioned? The kind of trauma she endured would have been enough to make anyone never say anything. I come from a family that has a lot of baggage, and I was well into my 40s when I was really able to talk about it (and that was after several months of counseling.) I only started realizing the impact of the domestic violence I witnessed during my childhood when I started having nightmares as an adult. People talk when they are ready, and some never talk at all. But, they need to be ready and feel safe to do it.
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Then they need to learn what you’ve learned about child sexual abuse.
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Robert Morris’s account of “inappropriate sexual behavior” is just the tip of the iceberg. In 2012, while Bob Hamp and Alan Smith were on staff as pastors at Gateway it was discovered that they both had been involved in extra marital sexual relationships with several women they were in counseling/pastoral roles thru ministry classes called Kairos and Freedom Ministry. The church did not report the incidents or file any charges even though it is considered sexual assault under Texas penal code. Instead, they were quietly terminated 15 months later. Bob Hamp divorced his wife Jackee Hamp, married one of the women who had attended his Kairos classes and opened a counseling office in Grapevine, Texas. Alan Smith started a new church, Catch the Fire and later was found to be having a sexual relationship with someone at his new church. He was again quietly released from ministry, divorced his wife Nancy Routzon Smith he is now a realtor in Burleson, Texas
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Called by God … or called by Dad? There’s a huge difference when it comes to Christian ministry.
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Gateway = Morris … Morris falls, Gateway fails … the consequence of ministries built around a leader’s personality, rather than the person of Jesus
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I am glad that you are willing to learn.
19 years ago, she went hoping for a private acknowledgment and restitution by means of some help with the therapy bills. She made the decision at that point not to bind herself to silence. (Some people have to do this if they need the money badly enough, which is why NDAs are so evil.)
The victim of childhood sexual abuse does not owe it to any of us to perform on our timetable.
The victim calling out a pastor, no matter how famous is or not, is going to become the target of people in the congregation who don’t want to hear it. This is at a minimum. In a small town, for instance, it may spread to rejection not only by your church, but by the whole community.
When or if ever a victim decides to go public depends on her own recovery, her support system, and often a triggering event. For instance, it’s common for a girl being sexually abused by her father to succuumb to pressure to stay silent unless she has a younger sister who he begins to show interest in.
The motive is nearly always to protect other people and it costs victims an enormous amount of mental/emotional/spiritual anguish to do so, in addition to often being disbelieved and be persona non grata to many in her community. The elders of the church had that job of protecting other victims, and blew it for many years.
Another intervening event in the past 19 years was the “Ne too” movement. Think of all the powerful women who had been silent until the ice of skepticism began to thaw .
The short answer is, that this was the right time for the victim and she found the right vehicle to tell her story in Dee Parsons.
The people whose motives should be questioned are Robert Morris and the leaders who knew about it.
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Well in their heirs’ minds (and the minds of their brain-addled followers), it is one in the same.
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4.5 years … 4.5 years!! … while Morris was claiming to be an ambassador for Christ … echoes of Hybels, Bickle, Zecharias, etc.
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Per his admissions over the years, he was very promiscuous. Listen to the 2014 sermon in this or the related blog article.
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BZ,
I’ll pass. I had to report a child sex abuse case once, and I’m discipling a young woman at my church who was a victim of child sex abuse. It’s enough. I’m sure I’ll run into it again as I am a teacher (which makes me a mandated reporter). But, as far as Morris is concerned, he really needs help to understand his problem and why it makes him unfit for the pulpit.
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There is a segment of American churchgoers who prefer “pastors” with a bad-boy past … it makes them feel better about themselves. Such pastors will openly talk about their sex lives (before Christ of course), their struggles with alcohol, drug addiction, gambling habits, etc. They may even flash a tattoo or two to drive the point home. They were awful sinners and they want you to know it! You ain’t going to get any talk about their pursuit of holiness! They will preach things like “Church is not a museum for saints, it’s a hospital for sinners.” Problem is, few become saints. For some reason, you will find most of such pewsitters hanging out in charismatic ranks … I guess they feel more comfortable there than in ministries which challenge them to grow up in Christ and walk the straight and narrow.
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Indeed, the dude’s as rich as rich can be.
And in the end, he’s gonna’ get his a$$ sued off.
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With an estimated $117 million net worth it’s no wonder why Morris was kept in “the ministry”. There is money to be made “in Jesus name.” There is no prosperity preacher or mega church that is about to walk away from their love of money.
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3 comments not approved. 2 involved foul language 1 implied that a victim bringing this up after many years is a political plot.
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Of course some Kool-Aid drinkers think it is a political plot. After all, Morris was a spiritual advisor to a former POTUS who had been shown in courts of law to abuse and degrade women. So in their minds, it is another threat to their Orange Dear Leader.
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Thank you for sharing this!
BZ,
BZ,
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dee,
Why does “political plot” NOT surprise me…..
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Read his comment again. He suggested the “kink” never goes away. It isn’t a kink. It’s a crime. And the suggestion that it doesn’t go away IS INDEED tantamount to saying one is powerless to heal and God cannot heal.
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Your argument disproves itself. How is it “overspirititualing” to remind all that God can and does heal? An omnipotent God can heal a lifelong illness or criminal mindset. I am not overspiritualizing. You are “underspiritualizing” and putting God in a box.
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Bob,
Calling a 12 year old girl a “young lady”, publically, is demonstrating he is not “healed”… He is still trying to mislead about the true depravity of it all…
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Bob,
God can do anything.
But really ….. how often does He make a paralyzed person get up and walk? How often does He cure a mental or psychological illness?
How many criminals have been released and had their records expunged because God healed them?
How much money has Gateway or Morris donated, from their millions and millions of dollars, to support organizations or medical professionals who help youth who have been sexually abused?
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dee,
The letter the church has put out on Robert’s behalf is a complete Joke! Re-read it, it states he is pure! No, he’s not, he lied from the get go! God has not honored his “restoration” because there was none. In Robert’s book Dreams to Destiny, he says he stepped down from the ministry when he was 25 due to his pride. NO! Robert, it’s called you are a pedophile!!! Robert claims he was saved at 19 and started working for James Robison 10 months later speaking at schools. Robert was “less than a year” as a believer when he started preaching at crusades and at 20 years old James gave Robert the title of “associate evangelist” because of “his association” with James. By association, are you kidding? Remember, James also had sexual issues just like Robert yet, James never knew about Roberts moral failings? Really? Additionally, Robert claims James was his mentor, now think about that one for a quick second. Further in Roberts book he states he was 25 (he had been molesting Cindy) and says that God said to his spirit, “Well here’s thought. You should step out of ministry and just take a regular job.” Robert replied, “Yes, that is a thought, lord. It’s bad thought, but it is a thought.” Robert has been molesting a child for four and a half years and God said, “Well this is a thought”? NO, HE DIDN”T! And you told God it was a bad thought? This shows just how depraved Robert really is as he believes God sees molesting a child was worthy of a mere “thought” and “suggestion” that he leave the ministry? This so called “Evangelist” by association knows nothing of scripture and isn’t remorseful to this day because he’s still sales his books on the matter. Believe me when I say this, Robert’s books ,videos, interviews and speaking events will be his complete downfall. Robert speaks of his sin with this 12 year old child that he calls a “young lady” leading believers to believe it was an adult affair. However, in one video, Robert states he had “many affairs”. My question is this, how many were CHILDREN? Robert has had many years to tell the truth, but withheld his so called confession for many years after he started Gateway Church. It seems apparent Robert needed a lot of people in attendance before he told his twisted false testimony. By the way, I was in attendance when he told this lie. His story was compelling and sounded humble and godly to the listeners. But the reality is, Robert had a plan to make money from his sick perverted violation of a child as he acquired a ghost writer to help him profit from his false testimonies and teachings and thus now controls a mega church who refuses to inspect what they expectant has been supporting a pedophile masquerading as an a man who committed adultery with “young lady”. So, like Satan, he continues to tell half truths by omission to this day. He is a groomed deceiver. I give no grace to Robert and all those who chose to allow Robert back in the pulpit while a child, now adult has continued to be exploited and mentally abused for over 30 years by Robert’s cruelty to keep it in the forefront for all to read. This evil man who has made money hand over fist twisting his words to hide his pedophilia disguised an “affair” is not repentance. Additionally, you don’t have affairs with “little girls” you violate them, you take away their innocence and safety. Yet, cognitive dissonance will keep many from believing the truth of what Robert did even when it is staring them in the face. This is just the tip of the iceberg of what this man does. God willing, the rest of his failings will come out in short order.
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This thing should have never gotten this far. I fault the elders at Shady Grove Church for “restoring” a child abuser to ministry and the elders at Gateway for giving him a platform and keeping him there with knowledge of this. The Shady Grove elders should have promptly reported him to the proper authorities and permanently disqualified him from ministry. Because they didn’t do the right thing, this has impacted thousands of Gateway/Morris followers and given the world another reason to wag their heads at the church.
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[ red faced, bulging eyes, gulping emoji ]
How… do you know all this ?
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BZ,
“The amount of times Robert Morris talked about accountability measures placed upon himself is way up there.” As someone else mentioned, I believe y’all at Gateway were groomed so that if the truth about who RM really is ever got out, the congregation wouldn’t be as shocked and horrified and would stand by him. Little by little he gave y’all info until you just weren’t shocked anymore. Kind of like the insidious “damn” in Gone With the Wind movie leading us to our complacency today with all the filth on TV/movies.
My husband once had a staff pastor approach him and ask if they could be accountability partners. My husband agreed. Every time they met, the pastor bad-mouthed the lead pastor and exalted himself. I told my husband never to tell this pastor his secrets because they would be used against him. I just didn’t trust the guy. One time I overheard this pastor tell someone when introducing my husband, “this guy is my accountability partner. He knows EVERYTHING there is to know about me”. Untrue, because he presented himself as practically perfect in every way, like Mary Poppins. Then it all came out, the things this pastor was doing. And he had been grooming my husband, who had a strong reputation in the church, to take his side rather than the pastor’s when if/when it came out. The sad thing is, my husband didn’t believe the truth and thought his friend had been wronged. Because he supported the friend, others did as well. It was a big uproar. We left that church and followed the “friend” to another church where he got on staff. And continued to behave in the same manner and lie. And then back-stabbed us. My husband learned a valuable, but hurtful lesson.
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A Graham,
Unfortunately, our son was in youth at our church when the youth leader was found to be sleeping with a 13 year old girl. The lead pastor was told. Within two hours, crime scene tape was strung up across the offices and computers confiscated. This is how it is done. He then went to Gateway, and now finds he is under a pastor who is also a child sexual predator. We are devastated for our son. We still attend the church where our pastor did not hesitate to call the police. (The youth pastor did go to jail for several years.)
My son just said to me, “Mom. This is just my opinion. But outside of organized crime, the church is the most corrupt organization on earth.” Our son his highly intelligent and analytical. I take his words to heart tonight. Have we allowed the church to become the average Whore of Babylon?
What the church has become, is something unrecognizable in some quarters. Gateway Church, is a pretty large quarter, claiming 100,000 members. I remain grateful for our local church. But what Robert has accomplished, is to alienate our child from the church.
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The question has never been ‘can He?’, but rather will He.
Two different horses of different colors.
HUG never said He could not heal.
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Now that means BEAUCOUP bucks are taken in.
Now that’s a-pile-o’-greenbacks!
All tax-free.
While little Bill gets bent over a barrel every April.
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Let He who is without Sin cast the first stone.. simple
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Thats quite a story. You were right. Listen to & trust a bad mouther and he will eventually bad mouth you. thx for sharing.
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David,
If casting the stone protects potential future victims; through them stones….
There are several grown men that wish my pedo teacher had been charged…. I know this because the court documents effectively say it,….
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Muslin, fka Dee Holmes,
You are correct, and the Scripture makes this a capital crime. He should not be escaping this sinful crime because its been awhile. Wow. No he should be prosecuted.
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Do watchmen cast stones? No, they shout warnings to the church.
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What does that verse have to do with this incident, or the conversation about it? There are no executions going on here, and no one’s trying to kill Morris or anyone else. We’re talking about his apparent history of repeated felonies against a child. That’s nothing like ‘throwing stones’.
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Oh, but it ‘is’ organized … when church leaders cover, protect and advance an alleged child abuser without church members knowing the exact offense while financing the organization for years.
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Another Sock Puppet I see. Are you one of Morris’s Kool-Aid drinking followers? Someone working at Gateway? Perhaps a paid media influencer/social media troll hired by Gateway/Morris/his lawyers? You conveniently left out the other part of that section of the Gospels, I wonder why…
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But then 4 of 5 Evangelicals follow another confirmed abusing cult figure with orange skin and bad comb over. They mindless believe and parrot their leader’s talking points and follow his DARVO playbook. So why are you surprised?
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2121blessedway,
I’m so sorry you were violated and silenced. You deserve to be heard.
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I’m so sorry you were violated and silenced. You deserve to be heard.
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I think the son is being too generous. Organized Crime is less corrupt than the church. At least the mob doesn’t threaten your immortal soul when you don’t give them their weekly cut of protection money. And well, I don’t see the Dons and Capos molesting their kids (or even their enemies’ kids).
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I have come to think that doing it without God is a prerequisite. A feature, not a bug.
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He wrote “…I was involved in inappropriate sexual behavior with a young lady…”. ???? Allow me to correct this for you “…I sexually molested a child repeatedly over three years…”.
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For the simple-minded, yes…
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You’ve got a point there.
It certainly softened the blow,
but the male 20-25 to female 12-16 ratio
is more like a bus sized meteor hitting down town than a baseball to the shin.
The pastor who befriended Cindy’s family said that RM would go down in history like Paul Pressler…. a forgotten footnote…. collective amnesia.
At this point my guess is it will be the opposite. This is a meteoric fall … and … its not over!!!!!
my advice to RM if he’s reading this is that anything he says at this point will make a bad situation worse.
There are too many lessons to be learned. There is too much still unknown.
And there is too much history that needs to be unpacked and contextualized.
I am Cindy’s exact same age.
Therefore, I remember the celebrity tv preacher scandals of the 80’s. Jim and Tammy Faye Baker, Jimmy Swaggart etc. . These scandals brought about a ‘mass consciousness’ regarding celebrity preachers and hidden sins.
In contrast, in the late 70’s, early 80’s, I could name scandals close to home, one involving a minor male / young twenties predatory female crimes that –for logistical, reasonable reasons I cant specify, they were dealt with as best the adults– the responsible and loving parents– at the time could.
And no. For very, very good reason, law enforcement, courts were not part of the picture. No: pregnancy was not the reason.
Even late 80’s. Similiar situation. another victim again my age. No courts. no police. If I painted the whole picture, readers would understand, I promise. But Id be saying too much.
The situation with RM and cindy is much different but it parallels time wise.
id like to say more but gotta hit send or i will lose this.
Thanks for listening.
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I was a child in the Shepherd movement/cult at Metroplex Covenant Church started by Charles Simpson and Glen Rochelle and I am close in age to Cindy. After MCC dissolved, my parents attended Gateway. Physical abuse was horrible in the MCCcult and for myself continued until the age of 16 under the “Don’t spare the rod” and “Break their spirit” teaching. Reading what happened to Cindy has brought up memories that are difficult to stop cycling in my head. Just a few weeks ago one of the girls I knew from the church committed suicide. Many girls I grew up with were beat for hours for flirtatious spirits and have suffered tremendous mental anguish because something is very twisted when you are a teenage girl being beat in the name of God. Demonic deliverance services to cast out demons haunt me to this day because I saw and heard things at 9 years old that I still do not understand. I was beat for not raising my hands in church worship high enough . Being beat after church with your dress raised in your parent’s bedroom lying on their bed and your stockings ripped from the impact of the wooden ruler at 12, 13 even 16 creates a complex wound. My heart is so heavy for Cindy because in my church I never felt safe from the wandering eyes of men.. I remember telling my parents about a few men that prayed with me and were too touchy and always staring. I know child abuse in our church was present. Physical, sexual and spiritual abuse and many times all three are very difficult to heal from and rears its ugly head when you least expect it like reading about Robert Morris and Cindy. I know there was tremendous fear of the men in leadership in our churches and frequent physical consequences for crossing them.
I wish I could find all the girls from my church and give them a safe space to come forward. #MeToo : church pastors
I have anger the last few days when I allow myself to think back and remember.
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David,
Jesus also said, “it would be better for them to have a large millstone hung around their neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea than to cause one of these little ones to stumble”
Your comment is completely out of context. Pharisees were baiting Jesus with a no win situation. ( Roman law forbade execution while the Law of Moses said adulterers be stoned. (Jesus’ crucifixion and resurrection created a new covenant in place of Mosaic Law.)
Also, the Law of Moses said that adulterers should be stoned, both the woman and the man….. and the law required witnesses. The Pharisees either could not or would not produce the man or any witnesses.
Cherry picking much? Would you post the same comment if you or your child was a victim?
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MCC survivor,
I am so sorry for all your pain, and that of your fellow kids growing up….
For all the “hatters” of Blogs like TWW, supporting MCC survivor is why I spend time here…. Not to get my jollies out of “bring down a “Man of God””
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David, there’s just something about a pastor abusing a child that stirs up the Christian watchblog community. Jesus had something to say about casting millstones, too.
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MCC survivor,
MCC survivor, I’m an old guy and a reluctant participant in the blogosphere. I would rather be fishing. But, I comment here because of people like you … I comment often because these sad stories come up far too often. What you experienced in church should never happen to anyone. The TWW community, and other watchblogs like it, are your voice. We hear your cry. We strive to inform and warn others so they never experience the pain you’ve known. May God give you peace today. Jesus loves you.
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MCC survivor,
I’m sorry for the horrendous experience you had to endure.
Your anger is righteous and justified.
I hope you can find a way to help others.
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MCC survivor,
I don’t have words to respond adequately to your suffering. No little girl should suffer what you suffered. I grieve with you and for you and your friends. The pain of the abuse itself is horrific enough, but being done in God’s name makes it so very much worse.
Jesus said, “Whoever welcomes one of these little children in my name, welcomes Me.” It stands to reason then that whoever abuses a little child in his name abuses him. “Inasmuch as you have done it to the least of these… you have done it to me.” He’s the only one who truly knows your pain.
I hope you are able to set aside time to take care of yourself at this time in whatever way helps you. You deserve the care. I am so sorry.
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My thoughts are with Cindy today and what children should never have to endure. I have a heavy heart for a scared 12 year girl that did not understand what was happening to her.
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MCC survivor,
Oh my dear lord jesus!!! I am so so sorry!!! All this done in the name of the One who truly loves you
“But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves.
Many will follow their depraved conduct and will bring the way of truth into disrepute.
In their greed these teachers will exploit you with fabricated stories. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping.
For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, ……..
then the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from trials and to hold the unrighteous for punishment on the day of judgment.
This is especially true of those who follow the corrupt desire of the flesh and despise authority. Bold and arrogant, they are not afraid to heap abuse on celestial beings; …..,,
… these people blaspheme in matters they do not understand.
They are like unreasoning animals, creatures of instinct, born only to be caught and destroyed, and like animals they too will perish.
They will be paid back with harm for the harm they have done.
Their idea of pleasure is to carouse in broad daylight.
They are blots and blemishes, reveling in their pleasures while they feast with you. With eyes full of adultery, they never stop sinning; they seduce the unstable; they are experts in greed—an accursed brood!
……..,
These people are springs without water and mists driven by a storm. Blackest darkness is reserved for them. For they mouth empty, boastful words and, by appealing to the lustful desires of the flesh, they entice people who are just escaping from those who live in error.
They promise them freedom, while they themselves are slaves of depravity—for “people are slaves to whatever has mastered them.”
If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and are overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning.
It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them.
Of them the proverbs are true: “A dog returns to its vomit,” and, “A sow that is washed returns to her wallowing in the mud.””
2 Peter 2:1-22 NIV
https://bible.com/bible/111/2pe.2.22.NIV
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I was thinking it was a wretched hive of scum and villiany.
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Excellent insight on the diff between victim, overcomer etc. . Thank you.
Pulling back from the emotion of all of this and to look at RM’s history chronologically, (of which I’m more aware than most commenters) , there are many lessons to be learned.
I don’t blame any female victim hearing the whole debacle for wanting to castrate RM. So, anything positive said about the man is going to evoke righteous indignation. Its ok. Let me have it.
But, as istoria ministries (who helped break the story) has emphasized, this is 2024. We’re looking at everything that happened from 1982 to 1987 with 2024 eyes.
Only those of us who were alive at that time “get” what that means.
I am Cindy’s almost exact same age. I can look back at 1982 and its historical consciousness.
My guess is that the Jim / Tammy Faye Baker scandal which broke in 1987 helped spur Cindy & her family to action.
RM was a very gifted speaker from his early teens, and my guess is that the Shady Grove elders wanted to ensure that they didn’t enable another Jim Baker. So they fired him.
Maybe the elders thought “if the father isn’t going to press charges, then neither will we”.
As horrible as that seems, that was often the approach — because, remember— if there’s going to be a prosecution, there’s got to be a witness, and that means that in 1987 a 16, 17 year old girl has to get up in front of a court and tell everything that happened.
Let that sink in.
This is precisely why so much crud, even when it was known, didn’t hit the court system in the 1980’s: adults doing their best, trying not to retraumatize a young woman with her whole future ahead of her.
Imagine walking down the halls of high school as a sixteen year old, you’re naively blaming yourself, guys are looking at you. You’re not sure if they know.
And regarding the thought that RM should have handed himself into the authorities…. well, think about that too.
Confessing to a crime like that, when the family of the victim isn’t calling the police, means cops arriving at the girls house, questions from neighbors, ….. the whole thing being exposed whether the victim and family want it exposed or not.
If you can see it as, like istoria ministries said, adults in 1987 who were doing the best they knew how to do at the time then it makes sense.
When we conflate 42 years of history into a soundbyte we don’t do anyone any favors.
Speaking of which– the NDA which I haven’t addressed.
RM may be worth $117M today, but in 2007 he wasn’t on TV, definitely not worth that amount then.
But yeah, when she asked for $50,000, he should have given her $150,000 no strings attached with a note saying “I am so sorry for my horrible actions against you 20 years ago. I cannot undo the past. What else can I do to make this right? ”
And that question remains. Here in 2024. He can’t undo the past. But what can he do, what should RM do today in 2024?
Perhaps ask Cindy that same question. And say “I will go to the authorities if that would make things right.” Then let her make that decision. Remember, no prosecutor is going press charges unless there is a willing witness.
Sorry for the length again…. thanks for listening. I hope RM is too?
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BZ,
Thank you. Repentance and forgiveness is a must. I am a member of Gateway and I myself have sinned. We all have. Thank God that He is a forgiving God.
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BZ,
This is important context and I agree and appreciate your comment.
The issue now is that here we are 41 years later and the elders of Gateway are acting as if they had absolutely zero idea that the person he referred to as a “young lady” was 12. I’m not buying it.
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Ava Aaronson,
So are you saying that Jesus is not able to change someone from the inside out? That God is unable to change the human heart, which is evil beyond all else? If you truly believe what man says over what God says He can do, you need to really think about your relationship with Christ as you do not trust Him to offer salvation for man.
I was molested as far back as I can remember by a family member, it started at 4 or 5, maybe even earlier, but that is as far back as I can remember, so I was much younger than 12. It was continuous. Then when I could stay out of the house…I stayed with other families, where the sexual abuse continued, only by other men. I grew up continuing to seek out “love” through sex. I went through two marriages and could not remain faithful, because I was unable to become close to any human being, I was unable to have any sort of emotional intimacy with anyone and sex was out of the question with anyone who “knew” me. Just ask my 2nd husband of 20 years. After my husband left, after my children were all considered adults, I realized that while I called myself a Christian, I was living like the world. God woke me up during a church service shortly after my husband left, He also put in my path that invited me into Bible study in which God’s Word was studied…not someone’s opinion of God’s Word. Jesus took me by the hand and the heart and completely changed my life. For the first time I knew what true unconditional love was and He has continued to teach me Who He is and through Him Who My Father is. Then He taught me how to forgive. I pray for the abuser and can genuinely want salvation for him. NO ONE is un-redemable, except fallen angels. NO ONE. However, man refuses to believe and trust and know God. Not one of us can throw the first stone, because not one of us is without sin. We are only righteous before God through Christ’s finished work on the cross. Believe in God believe also in Christ.
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The other issue at hand is “Are there more girls?” The U.S. Gymnastics team, Jeffrey Epstein, Harvey Weinstein and the #MeToo movement brought so much to light.. What will this uncover?
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BZ,
Thank you for saying this. I’m a member of Gateway and you said exactly what I’ve been feeling. Thanks again.
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@2121blessedlife I resonate with what you have said about the son and I am so sorry that this happened and that it was covered up. We know that pediphiles are always just that and we know the pride is the sin that caused Satan to take a third of the angels with him in Rebellion. I have always said that Morris was full of pride in every sermon. It oozes out of him. He has not repented of this at all. It is still a very present demon in his life. There will be others that have been assaulted and abused by him. They need to contact Cindy’s lawyer(as someone said, the police are probably in his pocket). We know that demons attach and have a legal right to be there in the blood line until is is dealt with(and this has not been). Morris’s sons and including his daughter will have this in their blood line (the sins of the father is visited to the 3rd and 4th generation). So when you said the son had assaulted you and it was covered up, this makes total sense. Satan is the master of misdirection and loves to cover up sin. Satan deals in coverups and cloaks sin. This is the case here. Morris’s children will need help also, to cut this off in the spiritual realm so that their children are not affected. This goes much deeper than just Morris Snr and he would know this, but pleasure is Morris’s top priority and having people admire him(pride) which is exactly what Satan did, is what he truly wants. Pidephilia is a crime.
Please look at all the access that Morris had to children in his ministry and his family. Morris was actually out of the ministry only one month, as after he was ‘caught’ he stepped down from Shady Grove and after only one month was travelling with James(who he named his son after) the travelling evangelist, and was moving about the country going to high schools speaking. He had access to children all the way through. There will be many others victims out there. Please come forward to put this man in prison where he belongs. Morris resigning does not make this right. It is cowardice (he should have been sacked)and he will still be seeking fuel for his continued pride and his filth, that lives in him.
Poor Cindy and all the other victims out there. Put him away please. I also wonder how many NDA’s are out there with his name in it. Please contact Cindy’s lawyer to discuss your legal options, even if you have signed one of these.
The son that assaulted 2121blessedlife needs to be investigated also.
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Deeply appreciated… I am now breathing a sigh of relief. More to the story? Time will tell.
Thank you Dee for not kicking me off of this despite my verbosity!
Bless you and take care. Gonna try to make this my last comment.
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yet as I read this entire blog, the majority of what I am reading are people who claim to know Christ bad-mouthing someone who has sinned. We can’t claim Christ and bad-mouth those Christ died for, and Christ died for Sinners, who at the time of His crucifixion, were His enemies. All of us are either for Christ or against Christ. Bad mouthing anyone and claiming we are in a relationship with Christ, regardless of how horrible their sin is, is cause to question our own salvation.
Before anyone attacks my words, understand I was molested since I was 4 or 5 until I was legally able to walk out the door. After my husband left, God shook me to the core to make Himself known to me and let me know that while I claimed to be a child of God all of these years, I was NOT saved, I had absolutely no relationship with Him. I let pastors spoon feed me God’s Word, but didn’t know it for myself. But God, through Christ cleaned me, changed me and taught me His Word for myself and taught me to forgive through Him to see humanity from His eyes and not my flesh. Today because Christ is in me, I can pray for my abusers, because our God is able to change hearts and clean them.
The kings heart is like channels of water in the Hands of God, He turns it whichever way He chooses (SC’s paraphrase of Pro 20:1). No one is un-redemable, if we believe that man is un-redemable, even those who molest children, then our god is not the One True God. We will be judged by that which we judge others. We do not know the heart of RM, but we know the One Who does.
What better place is there for satan to attack? if satan attacks the pastors, he “thinks” he can scatter the flock. We are the church, it isn’t a “building” it isn’t an organization, it certainly isn’t a denomination! The Church is those who are Believers in Yeshua Messiah. His Body, His Bride. Do we pray for our pastors, our Bible study leaders, those who teach us God’s Word or do we complain and bad mouth them?
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@2121blessedway I resonate with what you have said about the son and I am so sorry that this happened and that it was covered up. We know that pediphiles are always just that and we know the pride is the sin that caused Satan to take a third of the angels with him in Rebellion. I have always said that Morris was full of pride in every sermon. It oozes out of him. He has not repented of this at all. It is still a very present demon in his life. There will be others that have been assaulted and abused by him. They need to contact Cindy’s lawyer(as someone said, the police are probably in his pocket). We know that demons attach and have a legal right to be there in the blood line until is is dealt with(and this has not been). Morris’s sons and including his daughter will have this in their blood line (the sins of the father is visited to the 3rd and 4th generation). So when you said the son had assaulted you and it was covered up, this makes total sense. Satan is the master of misdirection and loves to cover up sin. Satan deals in coverups and cloaks sin. This is the case here. Morris’s children will need help also, to cut this off in the spiritual realm so that their children are not affected. This goes much deeper than just Morris Snr and he would know this, but pleasure is Morris’s top priority and having people admire him(pride) which is exactly what Satan did, is what he truly wants. Pidephilia is a crime.
Please look at all the access that Morris had to children in his ministry and his family. Morris was actually out of the ministry only one month, as after he was ‘caught’ he stepped down from Shady Grove and after only one month was travelling with James(who he named his son after) the travelling evangelist, and was moving about the country going to high schools speaking. He had access to children all the way through. There will be many others victims out there. Please come forward to put this man in prison where he belongs. Morris resigning does not make this right. It is cowardice (he should have been sacked)and he will still be seeking fuel for his continued pride and his filth, that lives in him.
Poor Cindy and all the other victims out there. Put him away please. I also wonder how many NDA’s are out there with his name in it. Please contact Cindy’s lawyer to discuss your legal options, even if you have signed one of these.
The son that assaulted @2121blessedway needs to be investigated also.
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Please teach and show your son, the true Church. We, the believers in Yeshua Messiah are the Church. The Holy Spirit if we are saved, indwells within the Church, the Body of Christ. We need to remember and TEACH others that the Church is NOT an organization, NOT a building, Not a board of elders Not a denomination of any kind, Not a religion. We need to teach our children and all generations what God says, what He expects, how He gives us a choice on whether to believe in Him, obey Him and build His kingdom, be priests to His God, to obey Him and trust in Him alone. It is faith alone in Christ alone. If we love Him we will obey Him. Otherwise we believe in our idols, human organizations, religion, governments and ensure satan’s kingdom is alive and well and allow lies and false belief to keep deluding the people who think they have salvation.
It is believers in Yeshua. It is those who have a relationship with God through Christ. It isn’t a “religion”, it is the people of God, that through His Mercy & His Grace, have been saved from the penalty of sin, because He provided Himself the acceptable sacrifice for our sins, so that all sin can be forgiven for those who believe in Him alone.
We are not priests in the future, we are right now priests for God, His ambassadors right now on earth, so we must teach the Truth of Who He is and not continue the charade that the “church” is anything other than the True believers in Yeshua.
NASB95
Rev_1:6 and He has made us to be a kingdom, priests to His God and Father—to Him be the glory and the dominion forever and ever. Amen.
Rev_5:10 “You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God; and they will reign upon the earth.”
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Muslin, fka Dee Holmes,
Robert Morris is a deceptive liar that has led and pastored falsely !!!! He is and should be prosecuted because of the magnitude of this horrific story !
The cover up , paying off the family and being a sexual predator on a 12 year old is enough to bring down the church !!
Obviously the leading elders knew this about him !! I’m so sickened by his deceitful pastoring and the crime against that child of 12 !!!
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He went for a while to both East Texas Baptist University (in Marshall, where he was born, though he went to high school at Longview Pine Tree) and later to Criswell, but he never got a degree from either.
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It turns out that Cindy HAD tried for these past 19 years to tell her story. And finally, her persistence paid off.
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I have no doubt there are. Read Rachel Denhollander’s impact statement and see the eerie similarities between Larry Nasser and Robert Morris.
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I completely agree! He is most definitely minimizing his actions! Part of TRUE repentance is FULLY admitting your sins. For all these years he LIED every time he brought this version of his story up! Saying “young lady” was him lying. Period. If he was genuinely, truly and wholeheartedly repentant, he would have confessed from the beginning that he molested a child. His version made it sound like him and an age appropriate girl fooled around. There’s a MASSIVE difference between that and being a pedophile, which he is, by the definition of the law. He was a legal adult and she was a minor. That is the exact definition of a pedophile. There’s no way around that!
As abhorrent as his actions were, he denial and minimization of the facts and him bringing up his watered down version so many times is almost worse! I genuinely hope he is legally held accountable!
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Actually he cannot. The 10 year statute of limitations had already expired when the law was changed in 2007 to remove it. Criminal would be ex post facto and unconstitutional. But civil is still open.
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According to what C Cleminshire says in the Roys Report, (you have to read the article very carefully, reading her words specifically to get past what the headline insinuates) the people who she can prove knows are RM, and an elder who is no longer on the board of Elders,….. and RM’s personal attorney.
We can speculate all day long whether the knowledge went past those four (including RM) people. But I kinda doubt the gory fact was part of anyone’s dinner conversation. Y’know what I mean?
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Yup. Well said. The schadenfreude runs pretty thick.
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Thank you for the Christ like approach and awareness . Yes it is necessary to forgive. One must set an example even forgiving RM no matter how horrific the deed might be. Im sorry fir the trauma and shame the abuse caused and if ik fact RM was abused and it was not dealt with clinically it’s no wonder he carried on the crime. This is textbook documented and established cause and affect. I am confused how the young 21 yr old Robert Morris was able to be left alone wiry a girl of that age. Where were the parents and how was no one suspicious of the time spent together. Seriously? Sounds unbelievable so I’d like more facts surrounding this duratuon of abuse. I hope to hear clarification soon. Prayers for all.
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Lol. You crack me up! The mob. Yeah—so righteous! No, they don’t *threaten* your immortal soul. They just *remove* it from your body via Colt .45, meat grinder, whatever.
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This is the most insightful comment I’ve read .
Why did Christ take those awful terrible blows time and again if not for the worst of sinners .
I hope someone is there for Robert .
Yes it’s terrible what happened, awful, but can we not show some compassion…
What would Jesus do ?
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I intended to add BZ ( Insider )is the most insightful..comment I’ve read .
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Haley,
The law was changed in 2007 to take away the SOL in Texas for some crimes against minors but it’s not retroactive to crimes committed before 2007, and abused the 12 year old in the 1980s. Maybe Federal law applies since he abused her in Oklahoma and Texas.
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But at least with the Mob you know what are getting into ahead of time when you deal with them. Their business arrangements and terms are explained and known upfront. Unlike a church or its leadership or its pastor. But then you conveniently did not reply to my comment about mobsters generally don’t molest their own kids (or someone else’s for that matter).
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A M E N &
A M E N
THIS IS SO SAD AND SHOULD BE HANDLED IN ALL HONESTY. STOP DISTORTION OF TRUTHS AND MAY WE ALL PRAY THESE UGLY STORIES DO AS LITTLE HARM AS POSSIBLE FOR THE REAL CHURCHES OF GODS WORD
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Muslin, fka Dee Holmes,
We followed Pastor Chuck from Costa Mesa California so many years this is as if he had done something like this. He would’ve never hit it for 40 years and we were going to Shady Grove Church at the time and becoming we became saved there under old and Griffith teaching, this is a slap in the face to Shady Grove church
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BZ,
Thank you for your perspective. I am sad for ALL concerned.
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You don’t need to ask that, He already told us what He’d do: Whoever offends a little one will end up with a millstone around his neck.
Jesus might also flip over the tables of the PR company and church elders who are currently crafting yet another statement that will turn yet more people away from God, just like the money changers were doing in the temple.
Don’t worry, Logan, people have been covering for him for decades, he already has a big entourage.
Logan, your comments demonstrate why these situations get covered up and are allowed to continue for years in the church……I’m being serious here, ask yourself: “Why is my first response to show concern for a pedophile?”
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What if this happened to your little girl ….
What if this happened to your little sister…
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Muslin, fka Dee Holmes,
I was a Gateway member for several years before I became unhappy with the way the church was going. It saddens me to hear this about Robert Morris, but I can’t say I’m all that surprised. However, this happened not in Texas, but in Oklahoma. Still a crime, but you can’t apply Texas law to an Oklahoma crime.
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This was a 20 something year old married preacher molesting a 4th or 5th grader …. Still in elementary school.
As a mother with a beautiful daughter, this is horrific and a parent’s worst nightmare.
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He thinks the “35 year old matter has been RESOLVED.” LOL In fact, it’s so resolved, he had to resign.
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She has an attorney. Wait for it.
Why hasn’t anyone offered up the statute of limitations on aggravated sexual assault in Texas?
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<strong>Logan, you use of the Nazi prison guards proves disproves your point. Of course Corrie forgave them. But, they faced punishment as Nazis. You are familiar with those trials and
punishments for being Nazis, especially those who abused in Nazi camps. Forgiveness and repentance does not equate to no change in lifestyle. The Nazis did ntremain Nazis and many were imprisoned, deservedly.The help you say Robert needs may well be the punishment he seems to deserve. Don’t be simplistic. PS I met Corrie but that is another story.
Ariel …
Consider the Lords Prayer
“ Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us “
Also , “he that is without sin cast the first stone “
“But for the grace of God , there go I “
How would you like to be treated ?
Yes it’s a terrible Sin , but the tone of many is calling vengeance.
What good will that do ?
Corrie Tenboom forgave her Nazi prison guards
They did awful terrible things
Robert. Needs help , not condemnation
Possibly check the true meaning of the verse
Mathew 18:6
You might be surprised.
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Logan,
good grief, why in the name of all that is holy and just is your reflex to have concern and compassion for the perpetrator?? what about the victim?
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Not talking about any punishment he may receive..
That’s a totally different issue .
I’m referring to forgiveness.
We are only forgiven as we forgive
That’s where the comparison to Corrie ends
Could you forgive such an offence ? could I ?
That’s the point , if we can’t then we probably need to look long and hard at Calvary
Overly simplistic ? maybe , but the Gospel is too simple for most of the world today
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Actually my initial reflex was anger ,
But 48 hours later the realization is
That’s just not what the Bible teaches
Prove me wrong ?
None of us will enter the kingdom with anger
Time for compassion towards all
Cindy , yes even Robert
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Max, please know how appreciated you are. I’ve been reading here off and on since around 2018. I’ve never posted before, but I wanted to thank you. Your wisdom and kindness is one of the main reasons I read here. That and to know there are still other followers of Christ out there who care about truth, justice, and the least of these unlike so many of the experiences of myself and my friends who have been victims of church abuse.
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NoelleLynn,
NoelleLynn, thank you for your kind remarks. If there’s anything good about me, it’s Jesus who lives within me. The “wisdom” you referred to was acquired in the valley of experience over tough roads. If what I learned has helped you in any way, it was worth the journey. May God bless you in the days ahead.
Please keep coming back to TWW and comment on articles as God leads … who knows what wit and wisdom from this old guy might be waiting for you on any given day! 🙂
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Max,
Thank you. I will be around.
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She recently learned what grooming was and realized that’s what happened to her.
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Ha! You win. I learned something! . I guess in. “Mafia 101”, (grade: F) I skipped the “hands off our women & children” chapter.
at least the old italian mafia was that way. that image started to crack in 2010 with one known case.
Child trafficking is so sickeningly rampant today that it seems theres not a profession out there immune to having perps.
Priests, preachers, teachers, doctors, dentists, lawyers, grocery store clerks, —-mobsters?
If there isn’t a known case of an old italian mafia member preying on a child — well, i guess its because they… “took care of things” (!)
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very much appreciated.
BTW. Gateway has 100’s 1,000’s of employees.
Im well acquainted with the vetting process for ministerial staff.
Dee, I hope you are reading this. I appreciate what you’re doing
I get the impression, Dee, that you’re expecting widespread SYSTEMATIC enabling of abuse to be uncovered at Gateway.
With the number of years and people that have walked through the doors there will almost certainly be some failures found that have occurred along the way.
Just be careful not to project past scandals youve uncovered onto this one.
When I say there are good people on staff at gateway i mean it. i dont mean SOME good people. Obviously there have been people justifiably fired over the years.
There are layers of administration.
i have known many, many people over the years from Gateway and I promise you that the “culture” of the church as a whole is one you would approve of.
The vetting process for employees is lengthy and strict.
I spoke with someone yesterday who happens to hold a ministry position at Gateway and he is angry!! Hurt, grieving. Still in shock. Ive known him for a long time and wasn’t aware he had taken on an official role there.
Rot needs to be exposed, always.
Just be sure you dont go proverbially charging into a building with flaming pitchforks only to find a room full of precious families weeping on their knees in prayer covered with sack cloth & ashes.
Gateway isnt a cult. Its a community of families who care for one another.
To call for the resignation of the “entire staff” displays a lack of awareness of the church.
What justification would there be for that? Why?
What did they do? what are their names? whats the proof?
demanding mass resignation without proof of malfeasance is the same as to “bearing false witness” AKA accusing someone of something they did not do.
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BZ, I appreciate you sharing your perspective as an once-insider of Gateway. But words (RMs) are cheap when not accompanied by action.
The only reason RM has acknowledged the details of his crime is because the victim stepped forward first. If he had been truly repentant, he would have come forward years ago before the statute of limitations expired … which I believe is 30 years after the victim’s 18th birthday (i.e. 48 … she’s now 54). I imagine he chose to ride it out.
Also, sexual assault is a crime, to be prosecuted by the government, an institution God created (Romans 13:1), not by a local church, or victim’s family. Why? Because RM could have (and may have) continued a pattern of sexual assaults in the same church or elsewhere had he moved on. It doesn’t matter if he never assaulted after the 80’s … he was allowed to move freely and could have continued preying on others.
And finally, I believe I read that Gateway leadership claims they did an internal investigation years ago and it wasn’t until just recently that they learned the “young lady” was a 12-year old girl. “How old was your victim, RM?” would have been the first question asked in a thorough investigation. So, those involved were grossly irresponsible, at best, or criminally complicit, at worst. If there are any elders still around who were involved in this investigation, or had any knowledge, they too should be removed.
My heart hurts to see the Church (e.g., a 12-year old girl) go through these horrendous experiences. I know we are all broken sinners, and can and must trust our loving savior Jesus, but we must bend over backwards to hold our church leaders accountable as scripture calls us to, instead of fearing what blowback there might be from the world.
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100’s 1,000’s who will soon be caught up in the consequences of the sins of a few at Gateway … as church ministries wind down and they must seek other employment … just a sad state of affairs all the way around
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BZ,
I’m an outsider as well and have attended Gateway many times when visiting my kids. We are devastated and shocked over this news. I appreciate you sharing your comments.
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MCC survivor,
Hey MCC Survivor, I too grew up attending MCC in Colleyville, under Glen Rochelle’s leadership. It wasn’t until the last few years, well into adulthood and raising children myself, that I have begun to come to terms with the abuse we endured there. I have begun seeing a therapist this year for the first time in my life and am still processing the extent of the abuse. Just wanted to reach out in solidarity. Much love.
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There is no other profession in which someone could admit to repeatedly sexually assaulting a 12 year old and remain in his profession.
This makes me beyond sick to my stomach. To answer your question, how many Christians worship Elvis Prestley, Jerry Lee Lewis and both of them should’ve been in prison for pedophilia!! Priscilla was THIRTEEN years old when Elvis raped her! You won’t here the main stream media condemning him! Quite the opposite… he is honored as a king! MAKES ME WANT TO PUKE!!!
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Bene D,
THOMAS MILLER has been there since almost the beginning…. I know I went there for many of the early years…. If anyone knows the real secrets it’s him, JIMMY EVANS or give me a Seagrams 7 Brady Boyd
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Well then this is the time she should report it to police. She might not have to if the statue of limitations has changed the police might just come and get him.
Caroline Feherty,
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I wonder if any other adolecents will come out and accuse him. Generelly it’s not just one person they do this to. Especially since he was a youth pastor he had access to them.
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I appreciate that very much!
That’s good thinking, and the sentiment of the day, indeed. Thinking deeply about this, and with some recent revelations in the comments, it appears that RM was put out of ministry, then back in in 2 years, and made an Elder at Shady Grove within a year.
If that’s true, then that there is enabling, big time. An Elder. Three years prior to that he was abusing a minor, which started 4.5 years before that? In 7.5 years after conversion, most of them had been spent in depravity.
Sounds like he thought his past was forgiven, all a-ok with all the adults in the room, so he moved on, next subject.
Baptists tend to shoot their wounded to the extreme. Charismatics, it appears are on the flip side. Grace, grace, and more grace. I’m generalizing of course. Lots of grace isn’t a bad thing. Unless it enables….
He was set up to crash, IMO.
Women and men process information very differently. A man can compartmentalize– out of sight out of mind, meaning, we never know, but the specifics of the law weren’t necessarily ever on his radar.
If she was asking for 50K, then she wasn’t asking for prosecution, and … is that what she wanted? It seems like a righteous thing to do… turning one’s self in that is.
But practically, even ethically, I dont’ think that’s a realistic, or even appropriate action to take.
And I seriously doubt she’s going to pursue this at this time. You never know.
“Turning yourself in” when her LAWYERS in civil litigation are asking for $50K?
Turning one’s self in for bank robbery, murder, kidnapping, that’s different. I’ve read of people turning themselves in after killing someone in the heat of the moment.
But as I’ve said before, “turning yourself in” doesn’t make for a quiet, private resolution.
With all the unasked for attention, and scrutiny it would have caused, that actually a form of disrespect. (Obviously, the lowball $25K plus NDA was disrespectful!! ).
The attention, pressure, scrutiny, and grief all of this causes on her, on her family, on her husband, children, grandchildren, and conversely on RM’s children & grandchildren, it doesn’t sound like she was ready for any of that.
Also, sexual assault is a crime, to be prosecuted by the government, an institution God created (Romans 13:1), not by a local church, or victim’s family.
Indeed. But it takes cooperation from a witness, if I understand correctly. If she was 12 when the crime was discovered, that would have been different. Thus the insidiousness of statutory offenses. The kid is groomed to be willing, and it takes place for years afterwards. And then, at age 16, (thank god she didn’t let it go on further), in 1987, she’s looking forward to the prom, not describing her sex life on a witness stand, my speculation.
Right you are. I’m hoping that is not the case. Its a lot more likely to have occurred prior to 1987 than since 2000. From all the information I have, it looks like RM, at some point, came face to face with the monstrosity of what he’d done, and, like Sonny in Robert Duvall’s “The Apostle” 1997, worked to build the kingdom of God to make up for the damage he’d done to his eternal soul.
Robert Morris did not believe that Ted Bundy et al could just get saved and go to heaven. He believed that salvation by grace was free to anyone, including to the TB types who convert before execution, but that payback in the afterlife was still there , yes, even in heaven, for those with serious offenses in their heavenly record.
Conversely, he didn’t think that hell was equally punitive for all headed there. Special places in hell for Hitler. Special places in heaven for Mother Teresa. And he very, very clearly did not see himself as a Mother Teresa.
If I’m psychologically profiling him, he looks like the guy trying to make up for his past, not the guy using the pulpit to prey on victims.
What people need to understand is how insulated he was. Very upfront in the pulpit that he was strictly a preaching pastor, and that Gateway was built on that model. No weddings, no funerals, no counseling individuals, no appointments with the pastor. All those things were delegated to staff. (He communicated it in a pretty humorous way.)
There was always a group of men around him when he was seen. I had many opportunities to meet him, starting 2007, but didn’t. There was a line, and you’d always talk to several of his associates while waiting.
This is why I am highly doubtful there will be credible allegations of anything during his Gateway years, and I suspect after 1987.
(BTW he never claimed to have a radical transformation from a monster to an angel. He was very open about his struggles caused by the insidiousness of sex outside of marriage.)
He was not ever your typical small church pastor while at Gateway.
That is the sad reality for most sex offenders.
I think this conflates information. There was never an ‘investigation’ prior to the one announced yesterday. He was open for years about his past, minus the gory details.
According to Cindy Cleminshire’s recent public statements, RM, one elder who is no longer on board, and his personal attorney are the only ones she informed within Gateway.
Absolutely.
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Meant to say “Practically, … even ethically (?) I don’t see how they would have seen that as a realistic, or even appropriate action to have taken at the time. If she was not asking for the sideshow of prosecution, then it would definitely be disrespectful to force that on her & her family. If that’s what she want now, then its her call.
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TM is year younger than Cindy who is closer to his wife’s age That would have made interesting dinner conv:
RM: “By the way, …. ”
TM: “Oh REALLY? …. “
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Yet he never offered to pay for the cost of his victim’s counseling treatments (he was willing to pay her for a non-disclosure agreement but even then not enough for the treatments she had already received).
I’m not a Christian but Luke has the story of Zacchaeus, a wealthy tax collector (actually a tax farmer, he paid Rome the estimated taxes and then collected the taxes, his profit was the difference between what he collected by fair means and foul and his original payment). Zacchaeus, after Jesus invited himself to dinner at his house and possibly hears the people mutter that surely Jesus knows this fellow is a great sinner, vows “Look, Lord! Here and now I give half of my possessions to the poor, and if I have cheated anybody out of anything, I will pay back four times the amount.”
Now compare Morris in his actions towards someone he cheated.
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Thank you for reaching out.. There are so many of us out there and I would like to see the light shined on what happened..
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If the allegations are true, especially in regards to the age of the victim and the time period of the abuse, should not the church and families and ministry leaders around this situation be held accountable for not reporting the abuse. Step One when a 12 yr old is sexually abused by a married 20’s man in a position of trust in her own home, which had to include grooming and most likely is not limited to this one girl, the police should have been notified. Post 1994 or 1996 when the registry was created, he would have ended up on this, potentially. This would have made his career much different buy not hindered him from serving the Lord if he was truly free and committed to purity.
Fact is, he, and everyone involved back then want to be judged by their good intentions, not the law, not the law of God, not the law of human decency, only by the grace they wanted to exercise with the wisdom of a small group of self governing fools who were in over their heads, out of their depth and unable to think it were possible for such a devout and talented young man to have a dark side of child molestation.
I hope it does not, but I am confident other stories will come out and other situations of sexual sin have been part of his history. If you consider this, he was married, had a child as I understand it, presumably was sexually active with his wife, but felt the need to fool around sexually with a child, not a 15 year old girl who looks grown up and acts grown up, which is wrong but more understandable from a sexual attraction standpoint….. no, this was a 12 year old girl…. in her own home, with people she trusted….
this is another kind of darkness that paints their black sin as grey and then fleeces the Body of Christ for years as a wolf in sheep’s clothing… making millions of dollars, living in plush luxury and enjoying protection for the sake of the ministry and the mission of God, kinda hard to not notice he is a white, man, clergy from OK & TX. Even if it was unintentional, there has been an observable protected status for them. If he was a black man who worked at the Circle K who repeatedly sexually molested a 12 year old white girl, in her basement, under the nose of her parents, the dad would have likely killed him dead and those around him would have called the police without thought…. in this case, white, male, clergy = cover up.
They want people to hear that steps were taken back then. That does not matter Shady Church, the steps you took were not appropriate and only served to protect the criminal not the victim and potential other victims. You were in over your head and out of your depth, professionals should have been involved and you should not have been allowed to self govern an abuse situation. Robert’s restoration was the not the primary need in that moment. You missed it. And every church endorsing Robert since then, if they had any access to his history, missed it.
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BZ,
He was very open about you say… but obviously not open enough to mention the age, on purpose. So being deceitful while appearing to be remorseful. Not owning up to a crime while looking for absolution. Some leader.
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That is because Zacchaeus repented and Robert Morris hasn’t. For a more contemporary example, google the name John Profumo. Or if you prefer, read the article linked below:
https://thedispatch.com/newsletter/frenchpress/remembering-what-repentance-looks-like/
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Billy Ramsdell,
You have articulated this sad story well with the truth of the matter. It has been a chain of events launched on the Body of Christ by “a small group of self governing fools who were in over their heads” and has ended the same way. The Gateway elders need to go and the Morris family should not be allowed to control what will be left of Gateway.
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in church, are only offered to folks by church leaders who have something to hide
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Thank god she didn’t let it go on further??? She didn’t have a choice! This was criminal abuse done to her! If she never did a single thing that prompted the end of the abuse she would still not be responsible for any of it.
What was done to her was not her sex life. It was ongoing violation on the deepest level. That is not a sex life.
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BZ,
RM is not a víctim. If what you say is true about him confessing his “sexual struggles, the Word states that he should never have been a “Sheperd”. He was disqualified as an example of a leader
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I agree. As I previously mentioned, in 2007 he should have given her more than she asked, no strings attached, with a blubbering apology, asking what else he could possibly do.
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Jacob L,
Regardless of when she came out about her experience, he’s admitted to doing everything.
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She could have chosen to stay silent & let it continue.
Instead she chose to tell her father which ended it. She made a very brave choice.
indeed.
I get what you mean.
“Sex life” is a neutral term meaning anything having to do with a persons sexuality or relationships.
A sex life can be active , inactive, healthy, unhealthy, good, mediocre, moral, immoral, felonious, dangerous, beautiful, ugly, marital, extra-marital, holy, unholy, etc. It can be victimized, and traumatized.
Many teenage victims dont feel like victims. They feel guilt, shame, and partly responsible.
They may even feel love for the abuser. Elvis pressley was 24? and Priscilla was 13. She adored him.
I hope this story hasn’t unearthed painful memories for you. Take care.
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Thanks for calling out the absurdity of a commenter labeling the violent pedophile rape of a child “sex life”.
Like a previous commenter calling the violent pedophile rape of a child “hanky panky.”
Tone deaf comments.
A man has never been vaginally raped (attacked by objects, fingers, a male projectile, etc., all rape) at 12 years old or at any other age since men don’t have vaginas. Duh.
Instead of making tonedeaf comments, wisdom would be listening to those who really know what this is all about. Not listening while going on and on with ignorant comments is subtle misogyny.
The violence here is experienced by women. Women are the authorities on this. Some men just can’t fathom women in authority about anything, especially when it comes to a woman’s body.
Some men just can’t handle it when they don’t have a clue what they are talking about but they grab the mic and rule the room anyway. Some men.
Wade and Rachel suggested to Cindy that she contact Dee of TWW. Wade knows Cindy but he’s not going on and on here about Cindy’s experiences, decisions, past, present, and future … like some of these commenters.
The remedy for tonedeaf comments is better listening and being supportive of people speaking for themselves.
Paul Pressler had dozens of male victims. They, too, should speak for themselves. Other guy victims can then add wisdom.
Dee allowing people to share their stories is a golden opportunity for listening, processing, and learning, over and above the narcissism of speculative and completely inappropriate commenting.
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Dolly Webber,
The father says he was angry and why didn’t he press charges then. He’s a minister and is mandated to report legally. He knew about it and didn’t turn him in? He’s got some guilt to face as well
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Betty Shaver,
I’ve said this to others but here we go again: Until very recently, a sexual assault victim would have to tell her story many many times to many many men who would call her a liar and a sl;ut. Cindy and her parents may have decided that continuing the abuse in that way was not a good idea. Also in a small town police department, word would spread through the entire town. The gossips would continue to shame and abuse cindy and the entire family.
there are good reasons why only 1 in 10 sexual assaults are ever reported to law enforcement. I was an adult and never reported mine.
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2121blessedway,
Have you made this public knowledge? Maybe now is the time.
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Betty Shaver,
Being just a few years older than Cindy I can totally understand why a loving father did not report. I only knew a couple cases reported to law enforcement in the 80’s though I knew of many overall. The victims in the reported cases fared much worse – worse than those who didn’t report and worse than their perpetrators. The effects of reporting and the public nature of that exposure were significant and lasting. The unreported ones still suffered greatly but were better able to compartmentalize and deal with it on their own time table. They still retained a measure of control over their own recovery. Justice would have been healing for all of us who suffered such atrocities as children but at such a high high cost. Things have improved for victims, there is much greater support and less stigma, but it is still not easy to have something so personal so exposed outside your control.
OTOH there is always the burden (one that absolutely should have never been forced on the child victim) that if you don’t sacrifice your own well being by reporting you are somehow responsible for any subsequent victimizing by the predator. For this reason I finally got the guts to report to authorities in my twenties – reporting myself and five other likely victims. I never got even a call back. It was well past the statute of limitations in place at that time.
As for mandatory reporting for clergy – I know in my state that law did not pass until the mid 90’s. I’ve never heard of anyone being prosecuted for not reporting – clergy or otherwise – in this state. Many in the secular systems do not report, let alone in the church.
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So , so sorry for the criminal acts.
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Tom Rubino,
“Freedom Ministry” at Gateway is known, in other circles Deliverance Ministry, which includes casting out demons, and getting free from the spiritual entities that cause people to engage in negative behavior patterns, and receive Freedom to do and be what God created them for.
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Ed. note: You are showing you have not spent the time to read Cindy’s responses. They are a loving, close family, something many don’t have.Cindy loves her parents. I wish I had had a family like that when I was growing up.And they did not give them their blessing, something Cindy has stated many times. Do people at Gateway actually read and do their research or so they chat and comment? Please do your work before your comment so Gateway looks better. You are angry and hurting. Morris betrayed all of you. I’m sorry.
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Julielystad,
I asked myself this question also.
It sounds like she did come forward earlier but no one was listening, or they just covered up the part where she was 12.
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dee,
In my State (California), the DA’s office would have already filed criminal charges against Morris.
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On what grounds? I did a brief search on both civil and criminal SOL in CA and it would appear that both are long past. In fact, Texas appears to have much better protections once it’s reported. I don’t even think “consensual” clergy abuse of adults is illegal yet, though a bill was introduced earlier this year. It seems there is work to be done in CA.
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2121blessedway,
What do you mean by “Not shocking. This pastor helped with the coverup when his son assaulted me.” Who are you referring to?
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Ed. note: So you are saying that many Christian leaders have a sexual interest in 12 year old girls? Be careful of your words.This is not just a past, it is not normal.
BZ,
Thank you for this insider information. I have heard him share this also on his program. And I am reminded of the prostitute who was caught in the ACT and stood before Jesus and when He lifted up again-she had no accusers. We all even Christian leaders have pasts we are not proud of. Be careful when throwing stones.
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2121blessedway,
You were assaulted by his son?
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ed. note: If one is tempted to molest a child, it is not just a sin. It is a crime, something many wish to overlook. Also, a married man with a child being sexually attracted to a girl is not normal. Your pastor had something wrong with him and getting rid of the demon doesn’t cut it. He did not reset his life. Read the accounts. You have been had, and this is why people with paraphilia seek out the church. Look at how quickly you forgive. Also, if you are tempted to have sex with a child, go immediately to get real help.
BZ,
I, too was a member there. Robert was always very remorseful over sins of his past. I saw humility from a man who preached very hard on the ability of God to bring life to the broken, and sinful person.
Church isn’t for entertainment. It’s to bring the very real teachings of Christ to man for life transformation. We read about David and what he did to Bathsheba and her husband. We see how God worked in a man’s life to bring him to know him intimately as God and acknowledge the sin he committed. He paid for it with the life of his son. His family also suffered much iniquity in their life.
As much as we want to crucify him because he sinned, we must also look at the steps that were taken in his 20’s to reset his life to fulfill his destiny. The one thing we must address is the redemption and restoration of the victims. It’s not taught so much in church, maybe because there isn’t much on it in the Bible, for man to do. God takes that role on and makes a big deal to point it out that it is through him only, that full healing, and redemption can come.
Just some thoughts as I sort this out in my brain. I absolutely hate sin, yet it’s there. It touches EVERY person in some way. May God get the glory from this in the end. Where unforgiveness is, darkness will spread. Where unrepentant hearts are, darkness will remain. Forgiveness and repentance is where redemption, something new is birthed.
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I don’t see that in the comments. I think that the majority of folks just want to see that he is not restored to ministry (his sin/crime against a child permanently disqualified him from that sacred office). They also want to expose the church system that did restore a child abuser and make sure this doesn’t happen again. If the Shady Grove elders had done the right thing, none of us would be commenting here about Mr. Morris.
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Bene D,
And this horrible abuse was not his first or last rodeo ride! It is the nature and history of pedophilia.
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Headless Unicorn Guy,
I think she got too infatuated thinking he’d drop his wife for her. It didn’t happen. When she saw how things were going well for him….and then the Trump hush money trial…hmmm let’s see what I can do to him if I put this out there.
Many will hate me for saying that, but I know in reality THIS HAPPENS more times than not in abuse or betrayal situations…especially when it involves someone that is younger.
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What! 84 years old and Christian. I was raped by my college roommates cousin. We had dated, but one night he decided it was his time. I’ve never recovered. I told no one but my husband before we married. I was also a virgin so it really hurt physically and emotionally. Wake-up! a sexual predator is as bad as a murderer. Damage to body and soul. Don’t feel sorry for Robert Morris he knew it was wrong. Yes we all sin. A true Christian feels sorrow for what they have done wrong. This is an every day situation. Robert Morris knew that someday this would be revealed. He continued to “cover his tracks” by half witted confessions. Linda
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AMEN
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Kimberly,
Thank you for saying that. It’s important to focus on this word forgiveness. When Pastor Morris Was originally confronted about Clementine, The pastor’s wife said to her“ I forgive you” . 30 years later , when Clementines sought financial payout, Pastor Morris”s attorney replied something like ” but you instigated this” Well before you go on to accuse me of victim blaming I’m only suggesting that we add a little reality into the wrecks. Pastor Morris was a very young immature man at the time that this occurred. The history shows that it turned his liftore upside down removing him from the ministry and sending him into counseling and self flipped collection. What follows is what he’s done with his life and the growth of his ministry. People do face challenges even greater than the one faced by Pastor Morris And the proof of God’s success is in his life going forward from the moment of his sinful state. I’m old enough to remember, in the United States when being 12 or 13 and married was not an uncommon thing. So if you’re living in the South you don’t have to go back very many newspapers to find the wedding announcement of young teenage brides the famous singer Jerry Lee Lewis married is 12 or 13 yr old bride. In the sexual encounter between the young pastor and the 12 year old there were two victims
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Ed. note You seem to make assumptions that you would find erroneous. Y’all better get down and do some reading because your comment is poorly thought out. Please tell me how you know that there are not any further victims? In fact, how do you know that G-d who I call God isn’t filling my heart. My pastors might have a bone to pick with you. And I wonder who is casting the first stone here. My goodness, what are they teaching in ch-rch these days? Sorry your celebrity pastor got caught with his pants down.
Y’all seem to have no idea how the devil works and who he will use to corrupt and ensnare His messengers. Behold the result of the devil’s work as you raise your stones and erect your gallows. Is it G-d who is filling your heart? Have you been overwhelmed because the “victim” was 12, 30 years ago? Who is rejoicing? The problem I have with your theory is this. Pedophiles never stop offending. period. so, where are the other victims? Or was this Devil attacking an immature pastor. Which one of you stone holders will come face Satan let me takers? We should all get on on yeas and thank God we don’t have to do that today
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All I here is a bunch of people talking about his youth, his immaturity, forgiving him, and on and on.
None of you doing this seem to have any concern for what 12 year-old girl went through for four years and then the rest of her life dealing with the after effects. Meanwhile, Morris wracked up $115 million.
Satan had nothing to do with this. Morris was his own undoing! Along with everyone else who thought it was a good idea for him to continue on as a pastor.