{Update: 06.14.24} I Was 12 Years Old and Wearing My Pink Pajamas When Robert Morris, Now of Gateway Church, Began to Molest Me. The Alleged Abuse Lasted for 4 1/2 Years. #Churchtoo #ARCtoo

“Never forget that when we are dealing with any pleasure in its healthy and normal and satisfying form, we are, in a sense, on the Enemy’s ground. I know we have won many a soul through pleasure. All the same, it is His invention, not ours. He made the pleasures: all our research so far has not enabled us to produce one. All we can do is to encourage the humans to take the pleasures which our Enemy has produced, at times, or in ways, or in degrees, which He has forbidden.” CS Lewis: The Screwtape Letters


Special thanks to a special pastor who profoundly cares about Cindy Clemishire and Amy Smith @watchkeep, who assisted in taking pictures and helping with videos.


Update 6.14.24:

  • I made one minor correction. James Robison was not with Morris when he asked permission to return to ministry.
  • I have one MAJOR addition: Robert Morris discussed stepping down from ministry for a period of time due to pride. Please see the screenshots from his book

At the urging of a mutual pastor friend, Cindy Clemishire and I spoke. Cindy has wanted to tell her story for a long time. I have been writing about sexual abuse in the evangelical church for fifteen years. Cindy’s presentation of her abuse by Robert Morris was detailed, down to a description of what she was wearing when Morris’ abuse began. For the lawyers, I must say it is “alleged” abuse. However, I believed her account within short order and knew her story must be told.

As our readers know, many victims of childhood abuse often blame themselves for what happened. When they reach adulthood, they begin to understand that the responsibility for the abuse does not and should never rest on the young victim. Many victims start speaking out in their late 30s-50s. Cindy realized what had happened when she was 35 while watching an Oprah show featuring a man who described grooming.

Robert Morris admits to a sexually immoral lifestyle before becoming a Christian at 19.

Before I tell the story, I think it would be helpful if the reader watched this video of Robert Morris discussing his sexually immoral lifestyle as a teenager. Here is the relevant portion of this video.

Robert Morris’s alleged abuse of Cindy Clemishire.

In 1981, Cindy and her family met Robert Morris at a youth revival in Tulsa. He was a twenty-year-old traveling evangelist married to Debbie, his current wife. Cindy was eleven years old. Her family was involved in many evangelistic events, and they were active in church. Morris was invited to do a youth revival in her hometown of Hominy, Oklahoma. After that, he began to regularly preach at their church on Sundays. He would often stay at her home and sometimes bring his wife, Debbie, and their little boy, Josh. Robert and Debbie Morris quickly became family friends, and Cindy viewed them as safe and friendly. Their families would often go on trips with each other.

All that changed for Cindy on 12/25/1982. Yes, Christmas night. The Morris family came to visit and spend some time there. Cindy sat in the back seat of the car with Robert. He asked her to visit him in his room that night. She shared a room with her sister. Cindy, an innocent twelve-year-old girl, movingly described what she was wearing. She was wearing pink pajamas with bloomer pants. She wore underwear underneath. She had a snap-up robe on. I laughed. I used to dress for bed similarly.

She thought nothing of visiting a family friend in their bedroom. He told her to lie down on her back and touched her stomach. He told her to close her eyes. Then he touched her breasts and felt under her panties. He warned her:

Never tell anyone about this because it will ruin everything.

She returned to her bedroom and didn’t tell her sister what happened.

Robert Morris repeated this behavior until March 1987. This would happen in Texas and Oklahoma, and the family would stay at the Morris home in Texas. Her father donated money to Robert’s ministry, not realizing what was happening to his daughter.

Morris wanted to make out and engage in heavy petting. He reportedly told Debbie that he was “counseling” Cindy. Cindy wondered if Debbie was in denial about what was happening.

Things changed when she turned sixteen. He would take her out in his car and attempt to have sexual intercourse. Once, he was fixing a vanity in his home and held up a screw and asked Cindy if she wanted to “do this.” By this time, Morris was a pastor at Shady Grove Church, which would eventually become Gateway Church-Grand Prarie Campus.

The abuse became known to both families.

Cindy confided in a close friend (G.F.) who knew both families. Her friend said she needed to tell her parents. Her father was angry and called the head pastor of Shady Grove Church to report Morris. He demanded that Morris get out of ministry, or he would call the sheriff. Morris reportedly stepped down from ministry for two years,

Cindy received a call from Debbie Morris, who told Cindy that she “forgave her.” Debbie is a mother. It is inconceivable to me that a mother would blame a 12-year-old child for her husband’s abuse. Cindy believes that Robert Morris might have told Debbie it was “Cindy’s fault!’ Cindy said things fell apart at this point. Their circle of family friends was no more.

Two years later, Robert returned to Hominy with Debbie, allegedly with James Robison’s blessing. The pressure was on, and Robert Morris was aiming for the big time. They told her father that he wanted to get back into ministry. At that point, her father washed his hands of Morris and no longer interacted with him.

Cindy sought counseling for the abuse she endured.

I believe that Debbie Morris also contributed to her pain by implying Cindy needed to be forgiven by her. It took over a decade of counseling for her to fully comprehend what had happened to her during those 4 1/2 years of abuse.

Cindy sought a financial settlement to help reimburse her for her counseling, but she wouldn’t sign an NDA,

In 2005, she obtained an attorney to file a civil lawsuit. Robert Morris’s attorney responded by implying that they believed it was her fault because she was “flirtatious.” She asked for $50,000 (which was not much in my estimation.) They responded that they would give her $25,000 if she signed an NDA. She refused, so she can now tell her side of the story.


Update 06.14.24

Cindy found relevant information in Robert Morris’s book From Dream to Destiny, which was written in 2011. He says he stepped down from the ministry when he was 25 due to issues of pride. He claims he was a security guard at Motel 6. Cindy added that she believed he was a used car salesman as well.

The following pages are from the chapter titled The Pride Test.


He steps out of ministry to take a regular job.


He works as a security guard at Motel 6 because he lacks the qualifications for a “regular job.”


It appears the timing meshes well with Cindy Clemishire’s account.

Further relevant information:

Hebephilia is a paraphilia like pedophilia.

Fifteen years ago, I was reeling from the shock of over 13 teen boys having been molested in my SBC church. I started this blog. I care about those harmed by a variety of abuse: sexual, domestic violence, and spiritual, among others. Nothing hurts my heart more than minor teens and children being sexually molested. It is a crime according to the law. It is an act that has profound, lifelong effects on the victim. The term for someone who shows sexual interest in pubescent teens is hebephilia. Yes, like pedophilia, it is a disorder, and acting on those impulses is a crime. Both disorders are considered paraphilias. In my church, the seminary student who molested those boys went to prison for only 13 years. He got one year for each of the thirteen boys who testified. Sadly, many of the other victims were not allowed to testify by their parents.

The NIH National Library of Medicine presents an overview of the current treatment of pedophilia and hebephilia.

Paraphilias constitute a set of psychiatric conditions that are often chronic and require a combination of treatment approaches, such as pharmacotherapy and psychotherapy. Sexual interest toward prepubescents and pubescents (pedophilia and hebephilia) is frequently identified in criminal settings, within numerous child sexual abuse and child pornography offenses. The high prevalence rates and negative consequences of these acts, causing distress in multiple important areas of health and functioning, reveal the importance of preventing these offenses as a clinical and social matter. Secondary prevention programs, which provide treatment and support for those with paraphilia disorders before sexually abusive behaviors and legal system involvement, show as ethically and socially necessary.

Could Robert Morris’ interactions with Cindy have been repeated with others?

A complaint about the single’s ministry at Gateway.

Immediately before connecting with Cindy, I received a call from a young woman (30s) who told me that the men in the group would often sit next to her, stroking her hair and commenting about her looks. She spoke to the leaders, but they didn’t respond meaningfully, and the uncomfortable behavior continued. She then reported it in a note to the pastoral staff at the church. They did not respond, so she left the church. I wonder if the church does not take complaints like this seriously due to their experiences.

Of demons and bitter roots

2014, I wrote ARC’s Robert Morris: Paul Preached “Under the Influence.” Morris, at least back then, believed that demons often infect people. He even said Paul had one.

Here is where it gets interesting. Paul has a demon who is physically in him! (Red alert!!!) Also, watch out for the word *clearly* when used to support a controversial opinion. Ask this. If it is so clear, then why is there so much disagreement over the matter by people who truly want to do the right thing?

Regarding that same influence with born-again believers, our clearest scriptural example is found in 2 Corinthians 12:7 (NASB). Paul states: “because of the surpassing greatness of the revelations, for this reason, to keep me from exalting myself, there was given me a thorn in the flesh, a messenger of Satan to buffet me—to keep me from exalting myself!”

The apostle Paul testifies concerning himself that God sent a “messenger of Satan” (angelos) to be a thorn in his flesh (sarki). These phrases clearly indicate that an angel of Satan was in the physical person of Paul. The same position of influence described in the encounters with Jesus is indicated even more clearly in Paul’s own description of his condition.

Of course, Paul’s writing of much of the Epistles raises the problem. If a demon influenced him, does that mean our Scriptures may be questioned?

Morris has an on-site demon removal team to fix your problem. He said he uses them as well.

Then, in the full video at the beginning of the post, he discusses how bitter roots or problems with your ancestors can cause present-day problems. Watch the whole sermon as linked.

This raises a potential problem. Are our failings easily blamed on demons and bitter roots? He seems to imply this throughout the video and in some of his teaching. If so, then let me state clearly: Morris is fully to blame for his abuse of Cindy, not some demon or some long-ago ancestor’s lousy day on the prairie. I have learned much about the problem of sin since I joined a conservative Lutheran church. Yes, pastors can sin as much and as badly as anyone else.

( In 2015, Robert Morris called Blogs “Satan’s Hit List. I would imagine not much has changed.)

Mark Driscoll’s Mars Hill imploded, and Robert Morris backed up Driscoll! It had something to do with “bad media.”

In 2014, Warren Throckmorton featured the following post on his website: Open Letter to Gateway Pastor Robert Morris From a Former Member of Mars Hill Church. Mark Driscoll, whose ministry imploded in a rather spectacular fashion, left Seattle, ready to start a new church (Just like all bad boy pastors) and found the ever-loving open arms of Robert Morris, who offered up some silly excuses such as the “media was against this man of God.” Yikes! Robert Morris, who seems to have an extended list of “those I allegedly endorse,” made a big mistake. He didn’t listen to those deeply wounded by his failed ministry.

Robert, the first thing I suggest you need to publicly apologize for is being reckless in how you handled the truth in your teaching on the topic of Mark Driscoll.  Yes, I agree you can’t believe everything you read on the internet or hear from the media.  But sometimes a person gets bad media because they deserve it, yes?   Before you spoke to thousands of leaders about the Mark Driscoll situation publicly (and tens of thousands more on the internet) the office you hold should have compelled you to personally talk to the Mars Hill elders and see why Mark was being asked to engage in a restoration plan.

When you labeled Mark’s behaviors as “mistakes’ you undermined the literally hundreds of hours work of the leaders chosen by God to oversee Mark’s behavior in Seattle and in my view, put yourself on the opposite side of the issue from God.  That is correct, I am saying that God was clearly speaking through Mark’s elders at Mars Hill when they presented him with a restoration plan…and when you ignored that with your comments, you opposed God.

…Mark is in trouble because Mark sinned.  Not because he just made mistakes (though he made those too).  If you want to know how he sinned, ask the elders who investigated.  Ask the 21 former Mars Hill pastors who he has still not reconciled withAsk the 9 pastors/elders who spoke out (and most of whom lost their jobs).  Ask Matt Chandler and those at Acts 29.  Ask about the Real Marriage book debacle.   Ask about the the poor in Ethiopia who got a small fraction of what they were due from the Global Fund money that donors thought was going direct to them,  while the rest went to other Mars Hill enterprises (though the money was restricted funds and could not legitimately be used that way) including to Mark’s apparent $500K-$600K+ annual salary (plus of course a $200K housing allowance on top of that for total compensation of $700-800K per year).  Do you think God likes people living on dollars a day in Ethiopia to be shortchanged so Mark can get a raise? (let me be clear; I am not saying that stealing from Ethiopian’s was Mark’s motive.  I am saying that was the consequence of a series of events that occurred under his watch, for which he is ultimately accountable as the leader).

Well, read the whole post. Remember, not all who sin do so because of bitter roots and errant demons. Not everything is quickly resolved by a demon expulsion team or blaming some grandparent for getting shot by a neighbor. Not all of the mess from people like Driscoll was caused by the ever-elusive term “mistakes.” Sometimes, people are just plain sinful, even after they “become Christians,” something Robert Morris may know something about.

Robert Morris, his friend Chris Hodges, and various leaders rule the ARC. Did you know there is a concern about fallen pastors in the ARC?

The Roys Report has an entire section dedicated to fallen pastors and other controversies surrounding this Association of Related Churches. Did you know about the Lodge for Fallen Pastors that Chris Hodges started at his megachurch site?

Here is a video in which they discuss restoring pastors.

Final thoughts: It’s about a forgotten victim.

It’s getting late, and I could keep writing for a long time about these issues. Let’s get back to the most critical issue. Robert Morris allegedly molested a young teen girl. His wife, Debbie, appears to blame this girl, a minor, who could not give consent. It is considered a crime. Did you know that Texas has passed a clergy abuse statute that makes such abuse toward an adult now illegal? Texas is a leader in this area.

Clergy sexual misconduct (CSM)/adult clergy sexual abuse (ACSA) toward an adult is illegal in several states in the US. Survivors of clergy-perpetrated sexual abuse of adults, advocates, and experts are working to make clergy sexual abuse of adults criminalized in all 50 states.

In other words, Morris allegedly molested a minor while he was a pastor. I believe the victim. It was a crime, but it is beyond the SOL. We also believe that a pastor who molests children has turned in their clergy card. They can be forgiven but should no longer serve in the pulpit. Given the recorded history of ARC churches, it would seem that “repentant” clergy get restored tout suite. See Dino Rizzo for an example.

Cindy was molested as a minor. She has been deeply wounded and has been in counseling for a decade. Robert Morris of The Blessed Life gives away houses and has the largest church in the US but only offered her $25,000 so long as she signed an NDA. As a 12-year-old girl in pink pajamas, she was told that they found her flirtatious. I guess this might mean Robert Morris could not contain himself! Good night!

My heart goes out to Cindy, the young girl she was so long ago and the brave woman she has become. I ask everyone who prays to pray for the peace that passes all understanding for Cindy and her loved ones.

Finally, nothing makes those oft-discussed demons smile more than a man who cannot contain himself around a 12-year-old girl in pink pajamas.

Comments

{Update: 06.14.24} I Was 12 Years Old and Wearing My Pink Pajamas When Robert Morris, Now of Gateway Church, Began to Molest Me. The Alleged Abuse Lasted for 4 1/2 Years. #Churchtoo #ARCtoo — 303 Comments


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    Thank God Cindy’s parents believed her immediately. I am so heartbroken for what she endured.


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    Cindy, I admire your courage- and I wish you every strength on this journey


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    How long until – after many denials (and much denial) – the potato becomes too hot to handle?

    He can rest assured his ARC buddies will restore him. They restore anybody. For anything. (Maybe except live boys and dead girls, but I’m not so sure even about this.)

    Anyway, it was more than 40 years ago – can’t people forgive and forget? /Sarcasm off

    My heat goes out to the woman who has to deal with this, and even more to little 12 year-old Cindy, who had to live it.


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    I will be putting out an update shortly. I have some information from a book written by Morris that sheds light on this story.


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    If it is true that RM’s wife thinks that Cindy needs her forgiveness, the attitudes of many American Christians towards sex are even creepier than I thought. What is it about consent, about the legal and psychological impossibility of consent by a 12-year-old, the disgusting creepiness of her husband’s alleged actions that she doesn’t get?

    A friend of mine once said that America attracted Europe’s most gullible and most entrepreneurial in the beginning. Thus the great start-up culture, can-do attitude, but also the many grifters and snake-oil salesmen. And the naïve, too trusting pewsitters.


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    I first saw RM in a video¹ of a “sermon” he gave at Ronnie Floyd’s church. Ronnie had invited him to shake down his pew-sitters, so that they would pay their full 10% tithe (“and beyond”) more regularly.

    Not someone you could trust. But a really good huckster, IMnsHO.

    ¹At the FBCJax watchdog site.


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    Is this TWW post the first Morris and Gateway are hearing about this or did they get any kind of warning? I’m just curious as to how much time they have had to come up with a response.


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    Joe V:
    Is this TWW post the first Morris and Gateway are hearing about this or did they get any kind of warning? I’m just curious as to how much time they have had to come up with a response.

    I doubt it is the *first* they heard. After all, Morris (allegedly) did it. So he (allegedly) is aware that it happened. It is his responsibility to inform Gateway of his (alleged) crimes. At the very least, he is aware allegations had been made.


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    Gus: a really good huckster

    Worth of $117M? Rescued and moved to Texas the bumbling California university founded by Jack Hayford, which is now located on the Robert Morris campus?

    Using God for business.

    Who says you can’t make money with the Gospel? But then whose or what gospel is it?

    Listening to the video of his root of bitterness sermon that justifies his own hebephilia… what a twisted trip.

    Really? The pastor’s relative was murdered back in the day so that got him into
    criminal hebephilia? Going after preteen girls? And he just can’t help himself?

    Then the pastor calls all the other criminal perverts in his congregation to come forward with their supposedly ancestral root of bitterness of victimhood leading to present day criminal hebephilia? Everyone swims in the toxic soup together? This is how he builds up his church business?

    What does it do when a pastor blames his own present day active criminal hebephilia targeting preteen girls for sex on a crime committed against a family member victim generations ago (supposedly leading to an “I can’t help myself” root of bitterness) then invites his congregation to do the same?

    The “I Can’t Help Myself Root of Bitterness Victimhood Traced From Ancestral Tragedy That Leads to My Own Present Day I Can’t Help Myself Criminal Hebephilia” sermon must be the Dear Leader’s method of preempting the testimonies of his preteen victims going public.

    Oh my, a crime against ancestors made him a criminal. So “Come to Jesus, Congregation People, to blame criminality on ancestral victimhood, together.”

    Contrast:
    Rachael Denhollander’s memoir titled “What Is a Girl Worth?” and her children’s book titled “How Much Is a Little Girl Worth?” and her 3rd book, “Discover Your True Worth.”

    And “Legal Grounds” by Ava Aaronson, a novel, same topic.


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    Gus: A friend of mine once said that America attracted Europe’s most gullible and most entrepreneurial in the beginning. Thus the great start-up culture, can-do attitude, but also the many grifters and snake-oil salesmen. And the naïve, too trusting pewsitters.

    Your friend is right on the money Gus. America is first and foremost a consumer oriented society, which in my opinion, explains in large part why she (America) is such easy prey for grifters and snake-oil salesmen.


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    Gus: What is it about consent, about the legal and psychological impossibility of consent by a 12-year-old, the disgusting creepiness of her husband’s alleged actions that she doesn’t get?

    Should a pedophile, of the hebephilia kind, be a teacher? It seems that’s not possible, once found out. The teacher loses their teaching license. Forever.

    Should a pedophile, of the hebephilia kind, be a counselor? It seems that’s not possible, once found out. The counselor loses their professional license. Forever.

    Should a pedophile, of the hebephilia kind, be a social worker? It seems that’s not possible, once found out. The social worker loses their professional license. Forever.

    Should a pedophile, of the hebephilia kind, be a medical doctor, psychiatrist? It seems that’s not possible, once found out. The physician loses their medical license. Forever.

    Should a pedophile, of the hebephilia kind, be a pastor, youth pastor, any kind of pastor?


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    Gus: A friend of mine once said that America attracted Europe’s most gullible and most entrepreneurial in the beginning. Thus the great start-up culture, can-do attitude, but also the many grifters and snake-oil salesmen. And the naïve, too trusting pewsitters.

    “Net Worth:
    Robert Morris’s influence extends beyond the spiritual realm into the world of finance, as evidenced by his estimated net worth of $117 million.

    “This considerable wealth not only reflects his success as a religious leader but also his astute management of resources.

    “While the exact details of his financial portfolio are undisclosed, it is evident that Morris’s prudent stewardship has yielded significant returns.

    “Relationships
    Despite his public persona, Robert Morris maintains a sense of privacy when it comes to his personal life.

    “Details about his romantic entanglements or familial relationships remain elusive, as he consciously keeps these aspects away from the spotlight.

    “Nevertheless, what remains undeniable is Morris’s unwavering dedication to his calling, which is matched by the unwavering support he receives from his congregants and admirers.

    “Conclusion
    Few figures in religious history have left as indelible a mark as Robert Morris. His transformation from humble origins to towering success stands as a testament to the immense power of faith, unwavering dedication, and relentless perseverance.

    “As he continues to venture into uncharted territories and inspire countless generations, Robert Morris serves as a radiant exemplar of a purpose-driven life that leaves a lasting impact.”

    From impactwealth.org


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    I just finished listening to a sermon of his from 2023 about healing from trauma. In it, he talks about being emotionally and physically abused by his mother, and he also talks about being sexually abused. He’s also very open about being sexually promiscuous in his teens before he got saved. But he has apparently never been open about what happened with Cindy after he got saved. Room 12 (the title of one of his sermons) takes on a whole different meaning when you think of him inviting a 12-year-old girl into his room.


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    Lyndsey,

    Wonder who his attorney was on the attempted settlement/NDA. Do elders need notified of allegations church attorneys are negotiating/managing?

    What a deceptive, predatory wolf enabled by many and enabling so many other wolves. Despicable! Imagine all the secrets he keeps for others AKA power over them.

    Dee, thanks for exposing this. Gateway isn’t playing since there is so much evil buried in their kingdom. Stay frosty!


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    We are having sexual preditor issues with a Assembly of God Church called gateway in San Antonio Texas.


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    Former MH member.

    When I saw Robert Morris offer the mic to Driscoll, my blood ran ice cold, my stomach dropped and I felt nauseous. I felt that I was witnessing some sort of dark pact . . . and now I fully know why.


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    Cindy, thank you for sharing your experience. I can relate to the trauma of being sexualized at such a young age but I can’t imagine how awful it has been to see your abuser and his wife be elevated and celebrated and protected. I am a lover of the house of God, but pray for the shaking to continue so that the wolves in sheep’s clothing be exposed and the innocent protected. I long for the remnant – a pure a holy church – to be what remains after the fire. Until then, I say, LET IT BURN. I am so grateful for your courage and know that God will use it for your good and his glory.


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    Gus: A friend of mine once said that America attracted Europe’s most gullible and most entrepreneurial in the beginning. Thus the great start-up culture, can-do attitude, but also the many grifters and snake-oil salesmen. And the naïve, too trusting pewsitters.

    I don’t believe this holds up to scrutiny. The Brits have had the same issues among the clergy class. Recent examples are Jonathan Fletcher, John Smyth, and Mike Pilavachi.


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    Cindy,

    I am so sorry reading your story of what you endured as a child and am glad that your father supported you. It’s awful that justice has been elusive.

    Thank you for sharing your story for the sake of other young girls everywhere who have endured similar things. Maybe even some who have believed the message that they were to blame will be freed from that accusation. Maybe your courage will give them courage to come forward.

    May God protect you and strengthen you in the midst of the attacks that are sure to come because you are speaking out.

    And may you experience justice.


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    The part of the story where the wife says “I forgive you,” reminded me of a comment that I believe comes from Diane Langberg. Addressing clergy, she said something to the effect of,” I don’t care if an adult woman comes into your office stark naked. The way you respond is 100% your responsibility.” Adults bear responsibility for their actions, 1000x more when with a child. A victim does not share responsibility for the crime against her and I am so sick of the long cultural stance that makes women and children responsible for the sexual crimes of men.


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    Joe V,

    I tell victim’s stories. They are the ones I care for. You didn’t mention the victim, only the church. I will alert the church when I have a moment.


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    Joe V,

    PS He knows. He was intimately involved, allegedly.


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    dee:
    Joe V,

    I tell victim’s stories. They are the ones I care for. You didn’t mention the victim, only the church. I will alert the church when I have a moment.

    I guess I didn’t phrase my question well. I’m not worried about whether RM and his enterprise have gotten a fair warning. I’m just wondering if I can enjoy imagining everyone over there scrambling around in crisis mode today because they never saw this coming.


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    dee: He knows. He was intimately involved, allegedly.

    Oh, he’s talking. In the video sermon, he blames his crimes on his Wild West ancestor (with photos, Hollywood style) being a victim followed by a family root of bitterness followed by his own “I Can’t Help Myself” pedophilia. Quite the Hollywood Wild West epic saga. When does the Wild West family saga film livestream?

    Then Dear Leader asks the congregation to do the same: dig down into their deepest darkest evil secret sin, blame it on their ancestors’ trials and tribulations and roots, “in the name of Jesus,” and come forward to do this blame thing while getting oneself off the hook, right at the altar.

    Taking God’s name in vain is one of the 10 Commandments’ no-no’s. And the Dear Leader does it from the pulpit.

    But if the Dear Leader targets his friends’ preteen daughter right in his friends’ own home in her bed to fulfill his fantasies, then taking God’s name in vain right up in the church pulpit must be no big deal.

    Nothing is sacred or private or denied to this Dear Leader Man of god. All access … one of UTC Andrew Denney’s characteristics of the typology of the clergy pedophile. All male. All access. The type, that targets church preteen daughters. Bingo.

    And how did someone describe the girl in her pink jammies and buttoned up bathrobe? Flirtatious? That’s quite some fantasy in residence in the Dear Leader’s head. FBI profiler Roy Hazelwood documented that predators ignite their crimes first in their heads with fantastic fantasies of their own creation. The rest is opportunity. Church people are low hanging fruit opportunity for all access predatory opportunist Dear Leaders with fantastic evil criminal fantasies.

    Dear Leader gets away with all of this to the tune of $117M from running his Church Business + accoutrements. Lucrative. Luscious. Licentious. For him. His deal.


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    Editor’s comment: This person is not trauma informed and shows a level of knowledge on sexual abuse that reflects days long past. I am warning the Morris bots to be careful. I do not have to approve your comments and I won’t unless you get smarter. Tis is how they get away with it. TWW readers keep your eyes peeled for more of this stuff.

    No proof either way. People turn against wealthy pastors due to jealousy and ignorance. Sure, there are some bad ones out there, but there’s not enough proof to condemn Robert Morris. I haven’t heard of any other victims speaking up so it definitely doesn’t look like a pattern. A lot of time has passed. It seems strange for this subject to come back up now.


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    I hope this story gets traction. Lots of it. Maybe some mainstream media person will get ahold of it and run with it. This guy has cash and lots of it. But once you’re named as a pedophile in Evangelical Christianity, that doesn’t disappear. Or at least I hope he is not so wealthy and powerful that he can make it go away.


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    Ava Aaronson: “Net Worth:
    Robert Morris’s influence extends beyond the spiritual realm into the world of finance, as evidenced by his estimated net worth of $117 million.

    Which is very likely why he (Morris) will be able to make this go away.
    With a pile-o’-greenbacks that big, you (generic you) can make just about anything go away.


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    Whenever I hear one of these stories about child molestation/sexual assault, I always wonder who else has been one of the pervert’s victims. After hearing these reports, there’s no way I would let my son or daughter (if I had one) go to a church camp or be alone with any pastor or male church worker.


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    C Lewis: but there’s not enough proof to condemn Robert Morris.

    If RM did nothing, why did his wife feel the need to say (erroneously) that she “forgave” Cindy. Sure seems like Morris’ wife knew something happened. Seems like proof to me.


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    Julie: After hearing these reports, there’s no way I would let my son or daughter (if I had one) go to a church camp or be alone with any pastor or male church worker.

    That would be a wise decision. I had a good friend I grew up with. We attended the same church. He went public with the fact that he was sexually abused at Covenant Pines Bible Camp in MN by our pastor (Edina Covenant Church) He didn’t go public until he was around age 55.

    https://thouarttheman.org/2016/08/12/4602/


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    C Lewis:
    Editor’s comment: This person is not trauma informed and shows a level of knowledge on sexual abuse that reflects days long past. I am warning the Morris bots to be careful. I do not have to approve your comments and I won’t unless you get smarter. Tis is how they get away with it. TWW readers keep your eyes peeled for more of this stuff.

    Thank you s Editor for this info. I haven’t seen this before and it’s helpful to have concrete examples of the kind of ‘tricks’ to watch out for.


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    Lyndsey,

    They have released a statement confirming this “moral failing” to members and staff.


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    Thank you so much for your continued work, Dee, and for exposing this important story.

    And so much respect for Cindy. I’m so glad you’ve told your story, and I pray for justice to roll down like mighty rivers.


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    A sexual predator may not have a particular type of target. Nancy French was raped by a pastor at age 12, and the same man molested women 60 and up. Some predators care about nothing but opportunity.


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    dee:
    Joe V,

    I tell victim’s stories. They are the ones I care for. You didn’t mention the victim, only the church. I will alert the church when I have a moment.

    If I were in your shoes, Dee, I wouldn’t be too concerned about alerting Morris and crew.
    Errant demons and bitter roots (!!???!!)….…
    If they complained about anything I said, I just say, “The devil made me do it! That thorn-in-my-side angel of Satan just outmaneuvered and overpowered me.”


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    Morris and others too numerous to mention, are cowards and mountebanks.
    Only cowards and evil men will take advantage of the weak and vulnerable.
    These men are why Karma and her sister Comeuppance will never be out of a job.


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    why did his wife feel the need to say (erroneously) that she “forgave” Cindy.
    Ariel,

    Because……. wifey thinks that each and every 12 year-old girl knows full well that pink pajamas and a snap-up robe is far too much temptation for a Holy Man like her hubby, so it must have been a trap?

    (If Morris had robbed a bank, harmed a teller, and gotten away scot-free, I’ll betcha his wife would have forgiven the bank and the teller!)

    If my husband did something like that, …….. well, I would support and defend the girl, to say the least.


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    As Watchkeep just reported—

    So now Morris has agreed that the report is true that he was involved in inappropriate sexual behavior with a young lady that continued off and on for several years. A young lady?
    She was a 12 year old girl!
    That’s not only a sin problem, it’s criminal.

    Disgusting.


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    Robert Morris has “confessed” to having a sexual relationship with a young lady. I will post in the AM. You guys are going to love this one. I predict his days are numbered.


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    Molly245: That’s not only a sin problem, it’s criminal.

    You betcha’ it’s criminal.
    Child sex abuse is a FELONY in all 50 states.
    How do Morris and the others like him always seem to escape the long arm of the law?


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    Muff Potter,

    Statute of limitations…….
    I’m sure he’ll give the – I was a different man back then, boo hoo hoo- song and dance.


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    Apart from the hypocrisy and moral reprobation of Robert Morris, this entire discussion is unscriptural nonsense.

    God states that Christian leaders MUST have a good reputation with those outside the church (1 Timothy 3:7). This is God’s standard, not man’s phoney theocratic compromise masquerading as ‘grace’. Yes God is gracious and forgiving, asnd a morally fallen leader can indeed absolutely, with genuine repentance, be restored to Fellowship. Once a crime or major moral failure (especially something like pedophilia which is both)
    cannot be restored to leadership if that crime or failure is publicly known. They do not meet God’s criteria of 1 Timothy 3:7 for eligibility for leadership. We cannot negate God’s degree by substituting God’s determinations with a manufactured policy of our own. Religiosity is not spirituality and the decrees of the church are subordinate to the decrees of God in His Word. When serious reprobation is openly known and the devil and the world have ammunition to use on the leader and the church, one’s ministry is permanently forfeited. Let us all take heed lest we fall.


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    Cindy, Amy, and Dee-thank you for bringing this to the light of day. Praying for your protection and peace.


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    Nancy2(aka Kevlar): Statute of limitations…….

    i.e. “NYAAH NYAAH NYA NYA NYAAAAAAA! CAN’T TOUCH MEEEEEEEEEEEEE!”
    (With long prayers and lotsa SCRIPTURE…)


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    Ava Aaronson: Taking God’s name in vain is one of the 10 Commandments’ no-no’s. And the Dear Leader does it from the pulpit.

    Convenient how that Commandment has been redefined to mean cussing and only cussing, eh, My Dear Wormwood?
    Nowhere do we corrupt so effectively as at the very foot of the Enemy’s altar!


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    Ava Aaronson: Dear Leader gets away with all of this to the tune of $117M from running his Church Business + accoutrements. Lucrative. Luscious. Licentious. For him. His deal.

    “MONEY FOR NUTHIN’
    AD THE CHICKS FOR FREE!”
    — Dire Straits, 1985


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    Todd Wilhelm: Recent examples are Jonathan Fletcher, John Smyth, and Mike Pilavachi.

    John Smyth as in “Jack the Whipper”?


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    “a young lady”?!

    A CHILD!!!


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    C Lewis,

    So this traumatized victim – Cindy doesn’t deserve monetary compensation for all of her mental anguish?
    Years of counseling, etc. she has a voice & is now ready to talk about it & she’s once again the victim. This is sickening.
    PM & wife rise to evangelical fame & she has to sit & watch knowing a crime was committed against her as a child. What is done in darkness will be brought to light. This will never ever be ok. If you’ve worked there – been around Sr. staff, they’ve all protected him. It’s just wrong but he has allegedly lied to his congregation and/or staff about her age. This is too much. Trust me I’ve been a fan of his but this is too much.

  50. Pingback: Pastor Robert Morris confesses to ‘moral failure’ | Church & Ministries News


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    You are one heck of a fiction writer.


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    While Gateway is addressing abuse within its walls, then I suggest they remove Pastor Sion Alford of the Gateway Justin Campus for his abuse cover up of children and Monica Bates of the Frisco campus for isolating a victim of sexual assault. Make sure to keep an eye on the adult kids as well because they made sure to be complacent in bullying victims. So much corruption in this church. This is just the beginning of the church empire’s downfall.


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    Don Ney:
    You are one heck of a fiction writer.
    I smell Loyal Lapdog or Sock Puppet.


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    Don Ney:

    You are one heck of a fiction writer.

    I smell Loyal Lapdog or Sock Puppet.


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    Nancy2(aka Kevlar): I’m sure he’ll give the – I was a different man back then, boo hoo hoo- song and dance.

    I’m wondering if there are other teen girls he’s (Morris) taken advantage of in the recent past, girls who are afraid to come forward.


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    Cindy, thank you for telling your story. May the truth bring healing.


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    “This person is not trauma informed and shows a level of knowledge on sexual abuse that reflects days long past.”

    This is an excellent statement.
    Thank you WW for informing and for sharing knowledge.


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    Here’s one for you. How about don’t look at pornography so you don’t get those sinful spirits on you; and it sounds like you’re blaming your sin and not taking responsibility for your actions, as God told Cain sin lies at the door,that would be the door of your heart and it was your responsibility Not to let it lord over you. Just own it, it was your choice to live in sin and violate that young girl, and you were wrong in your choices! Own it, You violated her by your choices not your sin.


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    Cindy, I am so sorry you had to endure abuse at Robert Morris’s hands. I am so glad that you have come forward, it takes a lot of courage. I commend you for taking that brave step. You may be saving other young children. Parents, please protect your children. An abuser is usually a friend or family member. Robert Morris should have never been allowed to shepherd a flock. The best he should have been able to do was be a member of the church. I doubt if his behavior had been exposed that he would have been given any church to be the lead pastor. Who are the “elders ” of the church who thought that this was, okay?
    I wonder if the church family was warned there was a predator in their midst. I doubt it. In my opinion, Robert Morris should step down as lead pastor as well as the suspect “Elders” who allowed this wolf in the church. A question all parents should ask the church is: has the youth pastor and those who care for the little ones in the church had a background check? The congregation should demand that anyone who watches the youth or small children including the pastor (Although this would have done anything in this particular case because the victim’s parents did not pursue charges against Robert Morris) should also have a background check as well as a private investigator to look into the past of anyone who will be on the church staff.


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    This old campfire song keeps going through my head since reading this post.
    I certainly don’t mean to be flippant.
    But, as if in a David Lynch movie, the scariest things dwell beneath the greenest grass.

    It goes like this.

    I wear my pink pajamas, in the summer when it’s hot.
    I wear my flannel nighties iIn the winter when it’s not.
    And sometimes in the springtime and sometimes in the fall,
    I jump right in between the sheets with nothing on at all.

    Chorus:
    Glory, glory, Hallelujah;
    Glory, glory, What’s it to you?
    Balmy breezes blowing through ya,
    With nothing on at all.


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    Cindy- it sounds like when you first came forward the statute of limitations were different thereby limiting the options available to you but you may not be aware that Texas law has changed:

    There is no statute of limitations for indecency with a child or for the sexual assault of a child in Texas. Therefore, you can be prosecuted for either crime at any time, regardless of how long it has been since the event.


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    Muff Potter,

    There is no statute of limitations for indecency with a child or for the sexual assault of a child in Texas. Therefore, you can be prosecuted for either crime at any time, regardless of how long it has been since the event.


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    Mike anomonimous Smith,

    I just fell down that whole Chi Alpha rabbit hole. AG church called decades of sexual abuse a “hiccup.”


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    Jess,

    There is no statute of limitations for indecency with a child or for the sexual assault of a child in Texas. Therefore, you can be prosecuted for either crime at any time, regardless of how long it has been since the event.


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    RM came to Shady Grove in the Fall of 1987. We just thought he was exhausted from ministry. I’ve heard other stories on why he didn’t get/keep the head pastor position at Shady Grove, but I’m not surprised. He never appeared to be anything more than needing a rest. We left before he stepped up, but this needs to be exposed if true


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    Gus,

    THIS


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    Cindy, I was abused as a little girl too. I know how hard it is to speak out. I’m so proud of you for using your voice. This is something that should have never been covered up. I’m praying for you!


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    So many of these Pastors that have engaged in sexual perversion in any form are also members of the Free Masons (my grandfather was a member for a couple of years until the Lord opened his eyes and he got out). They take oaths and are sworn to secrecy regarding their former and present sin’s and the sin’s of their ‘brothers’. Based on the testimony of ex-masons, when you enter the ‘brotherhood’ you open yourself up to sexual perversion as that is a prolific practice within it’s ranks which is of course kept secret. I’m sure that if any other victims of Morris speak out they will be shut down, silenced or threatened, just like with Mike Bickle


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    Gus:
    How long until – after many denials (and much denial) – the potato becomes too hot to handle?

    What gets me is that he admitted to the behavior! The video in the post absolutely blows my mind!
    He can rest assured his ARC buddies will restore him. They restore anybody. For anything. (Maybe except live boys and dead girls, but I’m not so sure even about this.)

    Anyway, it was more than 40 years ago – can’t people forgive and forget? /Sarcasm off

    My heat goes out to the woman who has to deal with this, and even more to little 12 year-old Cindy, who had to live it.


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    Problem is, this assault happened in Oklahoma, not Texas.
    Haley,


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    And we’re just now coming out about this?

    That’s not suspicious.


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    Why confess now?

    As I understand it in a quick Google search, victims of child sexual abuse in Texas have 30 years from the time they turn 18 to file a civil lawsuit … thus, this statute of limitations would expire when the victim turns 48. According to information in this blog piece, it appears that Cindy is now in her early 50s.

    Commenter Haley above indicated there is no statute of limitations for child sexual abuse in Texas. As it should be in every State!

    Could someone clarify this?


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    Mike Stidham: this assault happened in Oklahoma, not Texas

    I overlooked that in the piece. Can someone clarify the Oklahoma statute of limitations for child sex abuse?


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    Max: I overlooked that in the piece. Can someone clarify the Oklahoma statute of limitations for child sex abuse?

    It is now unlimited as of 2019; however, the law is not retroactive and does not reactivate previously expired terms (and perhaps cannot due to the Supreme Court ruling that doing so is ex post facto). https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution-conan/amendment-14/statutes-of-limitations-and-procedural-due-process


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    The former Elders of the Oklahoma “church” have this hung all over their neck too. They should have called the police instead of “restoration.” Perhaps Morris would have authentically repented in prison as a 20-something. The Elders of Gateway should remove Morris from the pulpit immediately. If they don’t, they should reinstate the name Shady Grove, but remove the word “grove”. If they don’t remove him, they will have to give an account to the King of Kings that doesn’t take abuse of His bride lightly…


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    We volunteered for many years at GW and were required to take a class on how to recognize a groomer/predator. Go figure. I respect Cindy for telling her story. This has come as no surprise. It will come as a surprise to those who have put these preachers on pedestals.


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    Max,

    It happened in both Oklahoma and Texas.


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    John Jacob.:
    And we’re just now coming out about this?

    That’s not suspicious.

    John, brother, you need to educate yourself to be trauma-informed. Most victims of child sexual abuse do not come out for 20-30 years. They are wracked with guilt as children, often believing that they are to blame for their molestation. As a person ages, they can look back on the child that they were and begin to understand that it was not their fault. Often, this happens when they have children themselves. Hopefully, you will grow as a person who understands the decades-long pain that occurs with people who have been abused as kids. Perhaps, God is calling you to care deeply for the wounded.


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    Gus: shake down his pew-sitters, so that they would pay their full 10% tithe (“and beyond”) more regularly.

    I dated a woman for a time who thought this guy and his teachings on tithing were straight from the Throne Room.
    I thought there was something a bit off the guy then, but this?


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    Mike Stidham,

    Thanks for clarifying Mike. I recognized RM traveled back and forth between TX & OK but I thought I read somewhere he assaulted her in Texas too. She says he would use excuses to get her alone so if he ever talked her parents into taking her across state lines and during which he assaulted her then Cindy could get Feds involved and take advantage of Texas law


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    Max,

    I’m like Max…I thought it said happened in both states which would qualify her for Texas law AND get FBI involved for taking her across state lines


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    I can attest to the fact that the legal system is no help in cases such as these. I did not remember my own assault by a youth pastor until 25 years after the fact. This was due to the incredibly traumatic affect it had on me. I know this is difficult for some people to understand, but it is a very real occurrence that is much more common that many imagine. If you are a person who struggles to believe or understand this. I humbly ask that you honestly and earnestly seek Jesus about this matter. . By the time I remembered, the statute of limitations had expired. Even though the law has since changed, it is not retroactive. If I wanted to walk into the police station and make a report in the city which it occurred. it would not be received because of this.I even called the police station to confirm this. It is a difficult place to live in. I hope more people will begin to understand that there are valid complicated reasons that survivors don’t come forward.

    Erp: It is now unlimited as of 2019; however, the law is not retroactive and does not reactivate previously expired terms (and perhaps cannot due to the Supreme Court ruling that doing so is ex post facto).https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution-conan/amendment-14/statutes-of-limitations-and-procedural-due-process


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    dee: John, brother, you need to educate yourself to be trauma-informed.

    How many times does this need to be said until people get it?

    Or maybe people like John Jacob just don’t want to get it, and their only interest is in discrediting the (alleged) victim?


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    Haley:
    Max,

    I’m like Max…I thought it said happened in both states which would qualify her for Texas law AND get FBI involved for taking her across state lines

    It does say that it happened in both states.

    “Robert Morris repeated this behavior until March 1987. This would happen in Texas and Oklahoma, and the family would stay at the Morris home in Texas.”


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    Ex member: We volunteered for many years at GW and were required to take a class on how to recognize a groomer/predator. Go figure.

    Good Lord! The Body of Christ has a lot to figure on this morning … from wolves in sheep’s clothing to wolves in shepherd’s clothing.


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    Max:
    Why confess now?

    As I understand it in a quick Google search, victims of child sexual abuse in Texas have 30 years from the time they turn 18 to file a civil lawsuit … thus, this statute of limitations would expire when the victim turns 48.According to information in this blog piece, it appears that Cindy is now in her early 50s.

    Commenter Haley above indicated there is no statute of limitations for child sexual abuse in Texas.As it should be in every State!

    Could someone clarify this?

    Hey Max- at one time Texas did have a statute of limitations for offenses such as this…and during those years Cindy was exploring her options those limitations were in effect thereby preventing her from pressing charges. However, in Texas those laws have since changed and if what you and I read is true (thanks for confirming we did actually read & understand it correctly) about her being sexually assaulted/abused in both Texas and Oklahoma then yes, Cindy can go to the police/district attorney’s office to file criminal charges against Robert Morris…even more so she can file federal charges of sex trafficking of a minor for her being abused across state lines. I don’t know everything but I work in criminal law and have for for over 10 years…she might even be able to get Texas to apply Clergy sex assault statute since Morris allegedly claimed he was “counseling” “ministering” to Cindy


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    Ariel,

    I’ve been thinking about Debbie Morris and wonder if her older self would retract what she said to Cindy about ‘forgiving’ her, when she found out her husband was a sexual abuser.
    Debbie married Robert young, had a baby, and would have been around 21 when he was 20 and he was found out. She strikes me as a subservient submissive people pleasing sort.
    What was it like for a naive and idealistic wife to deal with this kind of crime?

    Her ‘forgiveness’ to Cindy was hubris and cruel, but I doubt she was calling the shots. She probably did what she was told to do, and was probably scared ignorant and uneducated.
    Frankly, I hoped it has haunted her and she has a clue 35 years later.
    She has had her adult life to make this right, find some autonomy and educate herself.
    While I can cut a young newlywed mother some slack, what’s her excuse now?


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    Just stopped by for this story.

    Kamil Galeev points out that this aspect of corruption is a feature, not a bug of criminal orgs. You have to be compromised, whether legal or moral, so the other leaders have something on you that they can exert pressure with. That is so they can “trust” you. They have knowledge of your corruption they can leverage you with.
    He was discussing how russian govt is set up, but it is appropriate in all corrupt institutions.

    This is a feature of infighting of Elites. The other feature is lack of consequences for their actions, and is a sign that your heirachies have been corrupted and captured.
    Peter Turchin has a lot of study on elites, and how they destroy institutions with their mad scramble for power and wealth. That infighting destroys rule of law first, then entire societies.

    https://peterturchin.com/cliodynamica/

    https://threadreaderapp.com/user/kamilkazani


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    Lyndsey,

    How many others? How many others abused by this man. This is not a moral failure. It is a crime. He abused a child.


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    J. M. Smothers:
    I just finished listening to a sermon of his from 2023 about healing from trauma. In it, he talks about being emotionally and physically abused by his mother, and he also talks about being sexually abused. He’s also very open about being sexually promiscuous in his teens before he got saved.But he has apparently never been open about what happened with Cindy after he got saved.Room 12 (the title of one of his sermons) takes on a whole different meaning when you think of him inviting a 12-year-old girl into his room.

    It is challenging for us to know what to believe when he speaks about himself. We know he outright lied, saying he stepped away from “preaching” for two years due to “pride.” Could it be that some of his history was carefully curated for the time he got caught? I caution everyone from believing anything he says, including his wife.


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    morganism: This is a feature of infighting of Elites. The other feature is lack of consequences for their actions, and is a sign that your heirachies have been corrupted and captured.

    Thx for sharing Peter Tutchin’s work. For all of the flaunting of their higher degrees and higher education institutions, one would think Evangelicals and other religious types would bother to look at the research ABOUT THEMSELVES. Like the studies of FBI profiler Roy Hazelwood, UTC clergy profiler Andrew Denney, etc.

    Frank Figliuzzi, former assistant director for counterintelligence at the FBI, just published “Long Haul” about the culture of the HSK (Highway Serial Killers) who have dumped thousands of bodies of women along our major highways.

    Clergy serial pedophiles are another type with decades of hundreds or thousands of destroyed children in their wake. What’s the culture in our churches?

    You mention Elites. The religious elite executed the Son of God. Deadly.

    The pastor collecting $117M in tithes so he and his wife and kin can hobnob with the US President is Elite. He and his whole $117M cabal are Elite.


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    Ava Aaronson: Thx for sharing Peter Tutchin’s work.

    Correction: Peter Turchin


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    God bless your support and evidence-based reports on child abuse. I am shocked (not surprised), disgusted and sad for the then 12-yr old child victim. 3 minutes into Morris’s scripted “confession” video, I could not stomach a minute more of his indecent performance.

    In my late 20’s I accepted Christ as my saviour. I became an active church member, baptised in an evangelical Baptist Church.

    A few times there were instances of red flags of predatory behavior by church members – who were told to never return.

    I was not aware, nor had suspected the men with ministries (Sunday sch.teacher, fellowship leaders, clergy) were engaged in such behaviour. OR never made aware.

    The past several years I’ve found it difficult and discouraging to rejoin a local church. The politics of fundamentalism vs. hyper social upheaval, subjective scripture interpetation. I feel it is beyond preaching to the coverted, and I don’t seek to argue with (nor subject myself). I miss the fellowship even more because of this.

    Please continue exposing these crimes of abuse and to advocate for the victims.

    Thank you.


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    Sandy,
    That was also a schoolyard rhyme (which is where I first heard it, back in the late Sixties).


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    Haley: federal charges of sex trafficking of a minor for her being abused across state lines.

    The Mann Act.
    Which is what nailed Polishing-the-Shaft Schaap AND the Dake guy who wrote the Dake’s Annotated Bible.


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    Angel: So many of these Pastors that have engaged in sexual perversion in any form are also members of the Free Masons (my grandfather was a member for a couple of years until the Lord opened his eyes and he got out).

    Warning: Last time we had a commenter go off on the Freemasons, it ended up hijacking that thread completely off-subject.


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    Bene D:
    Ariel,

    I’ve been thinking about Debbie Morris and wonder if her older self would retract what she said to Cindy about ‘forgiving’ her, when she found out her husband was a sexual abuser.
    Debbie marriedRobert young, had a baby, and would have been around 21 when he was 20 and he was found out.She strikes me as a subservient submissive people pleasing sort.
    What was it like for a naive and idealistic wife to deal with this kind of crime?

    Her ‘forgiveness’ to Cindy was hubris and cruel, but I doubt she was calling the shots. She probably did what she was told to do, and was probably scared ignorant and uneducated.
    Frankly, I hoped it has haunted her and she has a clue 35 years later.
    She has had her adult life to make this right, find some autonomy and educate herself.
    While I can cut a young newlywed mother some slack, what’s her excuse now?

    The Morris’ were 25+ years old when he was found out…4.5 years after the abuse started. Debbie wasn’t a newlywed young mother. She’d had 5 years of marriage.


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    Ava Aaronson,

    Absolutely Not!! I thought Robert Morris was a great preacher that I listened to every Sunday. It makes me sick for the little girl he abused! He should never be able to preach again.


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    Angel: when you enter the ‘brotherhood’ you open yourself up to sexual perversion as that is a prolific practice within it’s ranks which is of course kept secret. I’m sure that if any other victims of Morris speak out they will be shut down, silenced or threatened, just like with Mike Bickle

    So HUG warned about not going off on a tangent. Thx, HUG.

    However, thanks for your comment about brohood secrecy with perversions. It’s a thing. And the practice keeps predator pulpiteer preacher pedophiles in power. Evil.


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    Haley,

    While the new laws seem hopeful, unfortunately they are not retroactive and don’t apply to cases whose statutes of limitations had already expired. It leaves a huge and painful gap with no recourse for those whose abuse occurred years earlier. The new laws don’t apply in these circumstances. Is is quite discouraging for anyone whose abuse fell in that time period.


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    He should be prosecuted


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    Ava Aaronson,

    So if we are heading down this train of thought, should they be a leader of the free world and President of the United States?


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    C Lewis:
    Editor’s comment: This person is not trauma informed and shows a level of knowledge on sexual abuse that reflects days long past. I am warning the Morris bots to be careful. I do not have to approve your comments and I won’t unless you get smarter. Tis is how they get away with it. TWW readers keep your eyes peeled for more of this stuff.

    No proof either way. People turn against wealthy pastors due to jealousy and ignorance. Sure, there are some bad ones out there, but there’s not enough proof to condemn Robert Morris. I haven’t heard of any other victims speaking up so it definitely doesn’t look like a pattern. A lot of time has passed. It seems strange for this subject to come back up now.

    Wow. It honestly doesn’t matter when this behavior took place. Or if any other victims have recently spoken up. If it happened once, there is likely a pattern. Keep watching bc everything hidden eventually comes to light.


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    The singles group on Saturday nights is a meat market. The leader waits for most of the people to leave then the fun begins with ladies sitting on his lap flirting with all the new ladies that visit the group. He drives from Plano to south lake
    Every weekend- go figure , hanging out at central market


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    I am shocked, disgusted and disappointed. I was a member of Gateway for 14 years and on staff as well. It was not easy to be a woman in a pastoral position. The fact that church leaders KNEW about this and kept it secret is tragic. I’m angry. Ps Morris often talked about his “sexual fall” BUT NEVER MENTIONED IT WAS WITH A 12 YEAR OLD CHILD OVER 4 YEARS. The entire church thought it was a consentual relationship (although adulterous) with a woman — because this was always how it was inferred. A LIE. This is wrong on many levels and my heart goes out to Cindy and hopefully there is no one else.


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    Finally now you can be seen and heard. This man should go to prison. If Texas doesn’t prosecute him after this mountain of evidence, it shows their immorality. If the pastor truly is a man of god, and he’ll know it’s in God’s plan to be in jail pay for his crime.

  107. Pingback: Sunday Silence: Gateway Church Doesn’t Tell Congregation A...... | News & Reporting | Christianity Today


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    Gee, I wonder if Morris also believes that being called out for his unconscionable act of yesteryear is also a “Witch Hunt,” just like his other like-minded partisan greedy Evangelicals who are in it for the money, or his buddy DJT.

    Interesting that Morris’s two fav politicians, Bibi and Trump, are also convicted criminals, as Morris should have been (Bibi’s autobio book of BS was promoted on Morris’s TBN, aka, “Televangelist Begging for donations Network.”) Real good company he keeps – a convicted war criminal, and a twice impeached/34-count federal law offender!

    How can these preachers on TV, like Falwell, Baker, Hagee Jr, etc., who operate church money machines, claim their moral and ethical failures are pardoned by the almighty? How dare they!


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    I am a survivor of childhood sexual abuse – incest and rape – and my heart goes out to Cindy for what she’s had to endure. She is standing for the truth, and standing for the truth takes courage and resolve. Sadly, survivors often have to deal with lies, half-truths and gaslighting–along with, in her case (and in mine, too), spiritual abuse and manipulation that can break one’s trust in the church and organized religion writ large. Cindy’s abuser, whose name I will not use, is a disgusting, repulsive and hideous monster, and may he one day have to stand before God and account for his evil doings. One who sexually abuses others can never escape accountability–years and decades don’t absolve them. Frankly, I would like to see him behind bars. Cindy, if you are reading this, continue to stand strong, sister. Know that you are not alone.


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    Cindy, I want you to know that I believe everything I’ve read about the years of child abuse you experienced at such a tender & innocent stage. I believe you were a good girl all those years & you were the target of a very evil man. I can’t imagine the confusion & mental harm you experienced during those crucial years when your friends were free to enjoy life. I’m so sorry you weren’t given help at the time you were freed from the wicked abuser. You must be very strong! I’m so glad you have gotten help finally!


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    Anonymous: The fact that church leaders KNEW about this and kept it secret is tragic.

    Morris was too big to fall … Gateway was too mega to fail … but it happened anyway.

    Shortly behind Morris’ departure, the elders need to exit too.


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    Max: Morris was too big to fall … Gateway was too mega to fail …

    And Roma was Eternal, i.e. would last forever, too big to ever fall…
    And the Reich was to last a thousand years…


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    Nancy2(aka Kevlar): I’m sure he’ll give the – I was a different man back then, boo hoo hoo- song and dance.

    And the guy’s a Boo Hoo in the Scientology meaning of the word – In Scientology, a “Boo Hoo” or “Weeper” was a clam that humans evolved from. Hence the term “Clams” for Scientologists and “Clamspeak” for Scientology’s Inner Mystery language.


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    Julie: Whenever I hear one of these stories about child molestation/sexual assault, I always wonder who else has been one of the pervert’s victims.

    Especially when we only hear about the ones who got caught.
    What’s the average number of victims one of these guys racks up by the time he first gets caught?
    And how many are out there for every one who DOES get caught?


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    Once, he was fixing a vanity in his home and held up a screw and asked Cindy if she wanted to “do this.”

    After decades in Furry Fandom keeping my mouth shut and eyes and ears open, I thought I had heard every “See How Clever I Am?” stupid pickup line in existence, but this is a new one on me.

    In the words of a Rabbi from Tarsus, “One that has no Name even among the Goyim.”


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    Amanda:
    Ava Aaronson,

    So if we are heading down this train of thought, should they be a leader of the free world and President of the United States?

    Well in the minds of TFG’s devoted followers and loyalists, especially “Christians” who are ostensibly horrified at abuse of women by pastors, the answer is YES. After all, it is only Locker Room Talk, he is being persecuted, etc. TFG uses the same DARVO playbook with regards to the civil and criminal consequences of his abuse of women, and the same Christians outraged by Morris, Ravi Z, Mike Bickle etc. turn around and defend TFG with their last breath. I am surprised they don’t break their necks from whiplash at changing their attitudes so quickly. Their hypocrisy is clear for everyone to see and yet another reason the “Godless” secular world thinks Christianity is a crock of sh**.


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    Cindy, I should have mentioned in my comment above, and I’m sorry I didn’t: I BELIEVE YOU!


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    Todd Wilhelm,
    It’s not just clergy you should be careful around. I am 53yrs old and was sexually assaulted by a Houston Police Officers( James C Cebula) in 1984 at 14 yrs old. I was a runaway on my first night ever on the street. I was previously in States custody as a Foster child as my mother was abusive. To make a long story short I immediately ran after the assault told the HPD what he did to me. They called me a liar and said I failed a lie detector test. I relented after threats and changed my story. A year and a half later this same officer is all over the news having raped and kidnapped another woman. I have recently as a woman in my fifties realized what was done to me and the manipulation of the HPD. It does affect so many things when you are basically told you’re a liar and you don’t matter. I have forgiven the officer but still having a hard time coming to terms with HPD. I contacted them and requested my evidence for my own testing and was told I need to get an attorney. They’re still protecting their own. Due to SOL no attorney will help. All I really wanted was an apology. How do you put it behind you if no one even acknowledges it happened. Laws need to change


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    Anonymous,

    Unfortunately, people on the gravy train don’t want their gravy to stop pouring. Silence in the face of evil, is evil itself. All the pastors that we had great respect for had already departed GW before this went public. They are the ones with discernment and a fear of God.


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    MAY I DISCUSS THIS ON MY PODCAST JUNE 27TH, 2024


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    My donations will be local from today on. I feel like a fool for giving my $$$ every month to this church! No more mega anything for me!!!


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    Joe V:
    Is this TWW post the first Morris and Gateway are hearing about this or did they get any kind of warning? I’m just curious as to how much time they have had to come up with a response.

    This is the first time I am hearing about this, I am appalled. I am a member of Gateway for many years. I have not always trusted everything that this been taught there as I know we are all reading and hear scripture as individuals some with more understanding than others. I am very concerned about the way the church is heading for awhile now. How as members can we know what is going on behind the scenes? God Bless Cindy. I appreciate the article and the work that is being done to bring this into the light. Thank you


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    will:
    Gee, I wonder if Morris also believes that being called out for his unconscionable act of yesteryear is also a “Witch Hunt,” just like his other like-minded partisan greedy Evangelicals who are in it for the money, or his buddy DJT.

    Interesting that Morris’s two fav politicians, Bibi and Trump, are also convicted criminals, as Morris should have been (Bibi’s autobio book of BS was promoted on Morris’s TBN, aka, “Televangelist Begging for donations Network.”) Real good company he keeps – a convicted war criminal, and a twice impeached/34-count federal law offender!

    How can these preachers on TV, like Falwell, Baker, Hagee Jr, etc., who operate church money machines, claim their moral and ethical failures are pardoned by the almighty? How dare they!

    Don’t forget that Morris’s abuse of women is no different than Trump (Grab Em By The…) towards E. Jean Carroll and others. Remember that Trump was also a BFF of Epstein and let us know forget his unnatural attraction and frankly, sexualization for his daughter Ivanka when she was underage (this is well documented in both pictures and interviews with on Howard Stern).

    Maybe that is why Morris became TFG’s spiritual advisor. Birds of a Feather, that sort of thing.


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    Ms. C, I am a VOV, Victim of Violence. My best, most sincere advise is, forgiveness. Trust me when I say that your day in court & the people involved jailed will not bring peace, it absolutely will not give you any healing. You need to heal & the only way for complete healing is to forgive. I know this 1st hand. May the Lord guide your thru forgiveness.


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    I am so sorry to know what has happened to Cindy and so sorry if she ever felt in anyway responsible for any of this. For the wife to “forgive” Cindy clearly indicates either she was blind or just wanted the status of who and what they as a couple are now along with the church. I find it hard to believe other high up members were not aware of this. I absolutely cannot and will not attend such a church that hides high up members harming children, blaming children, and being pedophiles then sweeping it under the rug. Hopefully pastor Morris is rehabilitated from this. Regardless if he is or isn’t there are consequences and should be consequences for his behavior and actions. Regardless if he now is truly sorry for what he has done which sounds like victim is being blamed sorry doesn’t cut it. I truly do not believe there to be just Cindy as his victim. There was just the 1 and only Cindy that suffered from this? Unlikely. For anyone to support such a church or such a pastor/man and trust or believe in a person that’s not accepting accountability taking responsibility for this? I’m sorry no I cannot stand by such a church or such a man.


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    Kammy Raimondi,

    Thank you, Kammy, for being open and objective about this sad news. I know this is tough for you and the Gateway family as you struggle to process things. I wish you the best in the days ahead.


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    Joe V: Is this TWW post the first Morris and Gateway are hearing about this or did they get any kind of warning?

    As reported by FOX4News:

    “For decades churches have ignored her disclosures while embracing, promoting, and endorsing this reported sexual offender as a man of God.” (attorney for the victim)

    https://www.fox4news.com/news/robert-morris-gateway-church-sexual-abuse


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    Anonymous,

    We figured out RM was not “honorable” when he left the Shady Grove campus and took all of the talent and top tier tithe group. Shook the dust off his feet and left the poor and struggling; headed to the city with one of the highest median wages in the nation. I was “inner circle” at Shady Grove Church for many years, and knew back then that things would eventually catch up with RM. But I never figured he was a pedo.


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    James jacob Prasch,

    Thank you James, for that admonition and truthful re-orientation.


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    will,

    Really?! You gotta make this political?!


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    Mike Stidham,

    Both Oklahoma and Texas for 4.5 years

    Haley: were different thereby limiting the options available to

    Haley:
    Muff Potter,

    There is no statute of limitations for indecency with a child or for the sexual assault of a child in Texas. Therefore, you can be prosecuted for either crime at any time, regardless of how long it has been since the event.

  132. Pingback: Robert Morris recounted stepping away from ministry for 1 month | Church & Ministries News


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    Molly245,

    It’s a violent sexual crime against a 12 yr old child by morris who was 20 years old.


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    The other crime he has committed is wearing that horrible toupee’
    The Catholic Church has, until late, ignored crimes just like this for years – and the Priest’s behavior warrants the church to conveniently move priests from church to church for a “fresh start” with no justice prevailing. “Score!” for the criminal priest – this means all new boys and girls to torture and molest in the new town!- and ruining lives well into adulthood in the process – merely so they could temporarily get their rocks off? These priests receive a slap on the hand. —- Also there are hundreds of cults that always show this type of behavior, allowing the young 12 and 13 year-old girls to marry a “deacon” of the church and her brainwashed parents hand her over because they are honored he chose their daughter. And he usually has SEVERAL wives. Gee, I wonder why.


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    I would highly recommend that Cindy use whatever legal (either criminal or civil) means to ensure justice is served. I also thank Cindy for her courage in coming forward. Also, I have no doubt that there are other little girls that Morris abused. Rachael Denhollander was the first woman to publicly accuse Larry Nassar of sexual abuse and that opened the floodgates. This ultimately led to his trial and conviction. Read Rachel’s impact statement about Larry Nassar and you will see the similarities with him and Morris.


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    William G.:
    will,

    Really?! You gotta make this political?!

    Maybe because it highlights the hypocrisy of people like Morris. Morris and his fellow Evangelicals are championing “family values” and opposing the “Godless” Blue politicians, school teachers, and public libraries who they say are grooming and abusing kids. When in reality, Morris and the TFG are the ones doing the abusing and grooming. You have a better chance of being molested and groomed at a church that at a Drag Queen story hour. At this point whenever I hear an Evangelical (leader, pastor, or otherwise) making those and similar accusations (and defending TFG’s depravity at the same) I have to conclude they are projecting.


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    Why did she refuse to sign an NDA in 2005 and take the position that RM doesn’t belong in the pulpit ever but then wait 2 decades (20 more years after her 10 years of therapy) to publicly lynch RM?

    Her father declined to press charges after RM confessed and met with him and declined again 2 years later when RM went back into ministry. Then she refused to sign an NDA but still waited another 20 years to attack him.

    Why now?
    And how long does she get to harass him?

    If you’re abused by someone and the person confesses, gets rehabilitation, and asks forgiveness from you and your family, how long do you get to attack him?

    1 year?
    5years?
    Or 20 years?

    Do you own the guy forever?

    The only reason he didn’t risk jail time is because her father failed to press charges. That was his decision. Even if he would have pressed charges, and even if RM had gone to prison, he would have been released decades ago.

    So why now? Why not then? And what more do you want from the guy? Want him to be your slave for life?

    To be clear, you claim he shouldn’t be in the pulpit, but you and your father wait until he’s about to retire to come forward, after he built a megachurch.

    It makes no sense.

  138. Pingback: Pastor Robert Morris Admits ‘Moral Failure’ Following Molestation Claims – MinistryWatch


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    I met Robert Morris one time. I was immediately struck by an uneasy feeling. I felt as if he was looking me up and down. He did not seem genuine or even concerned about his church member. He was more concerned about telling me how rich he was. I just wanted to get away from him.


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    FYI – We are NOT approving 99% of the pingbacks we’re getting. Only if we know you will we approve it. Too many click bait sites are dropping them on us.

    If we tossed one you thing should be allowed, email me.


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    Kelley,

    That Holy Spirit check in your spirit saved you the misery that many Gateway members are feeling today. Given your experience with Mr. Morris, I figure there is much more to this sad story.


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    Ruby: Why did she refuse to sign an NDA

    It’s a good thing she didn’t!

    Ruby: Why now?

    Read the other posts and comments on this sad story. They provide insight into the reasons behind delayed response by child abuse victims.


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    Ruby,

    For the perpetrator, it is history in their mind. For the victim, it was yesterday. It takes a long time for victims to process what has been done to them. The time that has passed is irrelevant.


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    <>

    I read them. Question is still unanswered. I did see that some people have said victims may wait 20-30 years—this is much longer than 20-30 years. In 2005, that was 20 years. This is another 20 years. So is it 20-40 years now? Or is it 20 years to whenever? What’s special about now? She was in her 30s in 2005 when she declined to sign an NDA. She wasn’t 12. But she still didn’t publicly lynch him then at the start of his Gateway leadership. She waited until he was near retirement….makes no sense at all.

    Again, how long? 40 years? 60 years? Should he be her slave forever? When is enough enough? Jail would have been probably less than 10 years. So when is he allowed to move on?

    <>

    Time passed is very relevant. Unless you think he should have been executed or imprisoned for life, in which case I don’t agree.

    He allegedly has committed zero crimes since the 1980s. When is he allowed to move on? When you say ‘irrelevant,’ does that mean he is never allowed to move on? ever?

    What’s the end point? “The time that has passed is irrelevant” means you support his execution or life imprisonment, which is excessive.


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    Gus,
    Gus: “A friend of mine once said that America attracted Europe’s most gullible and most entrepreneurial in the beginning. Thus the great start-up culture, can-do attitude, but also the many grifters and snake-oil salesmen. And the naïve, to trusting pewsitters.”

    Well said, Gus. I’m reminded of another quote attributed to someone named Sam Pascoe: “Christianity started out in Palestine as a fellowship; it moved to Greece and became a philosophy; it moved to Italy and became an institution; it moved to Europe and became a culture; it came to America and became an enterprise.”


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    Max,

    “Shortly behind Morris’ departure, the elders need to exit too.”
    +++++++++++++++++

    as well as the pastor and leaders of Shady Grove Church who “restored” Robert Morris.

    their kind faces and any observed general good-hearted nature should not factor in.

    lady justice’s blindfold ‘n all…


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    Jimmy T,

    From the Christian Post article:

    “Elders at Gateway Church told CP in a statement that Morris was transparent with them about his past and they believe he has been biblically restored to ministry.

    “Pastor Robert has been open and forthright about a moral failure he had over 35 years ago when he was in his twenties and prior to him starting Gateway Church. He has shared publicly from the pulpit the proper biblical steps he took in his lengthy restoration process,” they said.
    .
    .
    well if this doesn’t completely bankrupt the concepts of ‘biblical’ and ‘restoration’,…

    what a farce

    unfortunately, the special collection of ancient writings known as the bible is tainted by association. but that’s what religion/”it’s-not-a-religion-it’s-a relationship” do.


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    Ruby,

    This makes total sense for a victim or someone who is close to a victim or those who have counseled victims. When the victim seeks help and doesn’t receive it, they are victimized again. It takes a lot of courage and trust in God to come forward. Darkness doesn’t go away until light is shed on it.


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    Ex member,

    She came forward.
    Then she came forward again in 2005
    Then she came forward again in 2024

    Is she victimized in 2024 because he’s rich and famous?
    She states she just wants her therapy reimbursed and clearly stated that he should never be allowed back in ministry, yet she asked for money in 2005 and watched him grow Gateway for a quarter of a century.

    Now suddenly, when he’s about to retire, it’s time for the public lynching.

    He apologized to her and met with her and her father – and she held on to her chip for decades.

    No, it doesn’t make sense.


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    elastigirl: Max,

    “Shortly behind Morris’ departure, the elders need to exit too.”
    +++++++++++++++++

    as well as the pastor and leaders of Shady Grove Church who “restored” Robert Morris

    those good ole boys are probably long gone … it’s been nearly 40 years


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    What happened to her was a shame and never should have happened. I am not defending the man
    for what he did. But, I do believe he has changed. I know I have. I have made a lot of mistakes and I have sinned. Is there anyone on here who has NEVER sinned? I think not! It is not our places to judge, only God can do that. I am having a hard time with this myself being a member of Gateway but I know there is only one sin that is unforgivable, and this is not it. Again, I am not saying what he did was not wrong because it is on so many levels. All I am saying is it is not our places to judge. I don’t know what I would do if something like this had happened to one of my children, but I do know that we have to forgive each other. Only with forgiveness can we begin to heal. I hope Cindy can find it in her heart to forgive Pastor Robert, for her on sanity. I pray for her and I also pray for Pastor Robert. May God forgive you Pastor Robert, I am sure He already has and for Cindy, I hope you can find peace in forgivness. Only throw the stone if you have NEVER SINNED!!!


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    Cindy Clemishire, Thank you for your courage in coming forward. It is hard to do so when the person involved is prominent and well respected. Thank you also for not signing an NDA. Many regret signing them and are legally obligated to remain silent as others are abused. May God bless you. Bob Leland NDAFree . org .


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    Gus,

    Yes.

  154. Pingback: Pastor Robert Morris resigns from Gateway Church after child sex abuse allegation


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    Evalyn,

    forgiveness and accountability are 2 different things.

    not insisting on accountability is why the christian church is the disgusting hypocritical mess of corruption and low standards for character and integrity. worthy of all the criticism and derision it receives.


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    I pray the truth comes out. God knows the truth. The two of them and God know. Praying and leaving it in His hands!


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    elastigirl: forgiveness and accountability are 2 different things.

    Accountability by what standard?

    He confessed to his church.
    He left the pulpit.
    He sat down with her and her father and apologized.
    He was counseled and rehabilitated.

    And he’s devoted his life to spread the gospel to millions of people.

    If you think accountability means he should never work again or that he should be perpetually tarred and feathered, you’re way off.


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    He sexually abused a 12-year-old girl and took away her innocence. The question is, how many other little girls did he sexually abuse since he was not held accountable for his actions by his peers?
    “It went on for many years. He says there was no sexual intercourse, but he did touch every part of my body and inserted his fingers into me, which I understand now is considered a form of rape by instrumentation. I was an innocent 12-year-old little girl who knew nothing about sexual behavior.”


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    Lyndsey,

    I have been an attending member of Gateway for over 15 years. Robert has told his testimony many times, albeit without the girl’s age. We were not prepared for this at all, and I’m heartbroken not only for the victim, but confusingly, also the pastor I’ve loved and learned from for many years. I suspect many have and will leave the church over this, but I am hoping that the church will (1) speak with us about this and (2) pray for all involved.


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    RM resigned today.

    Board of elders claims they knew about ‘an affair’ but did not know it was a child sexual abuse case.


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    FYI – Blog admin notice.

    Due to special circumstances comments will be disabled for a short period at some point between 10PM and 11PM tonight, EDT (USA).
    Sorry for the inconvenience.


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    Ruby,

    According to her attorney, Cindy HAS been trying to tell her story. Only to be silenced at every turn, by those who were protecting Morris and his empire. Until now.


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    Mark R:
    Ruby,

    According to her attorney, Cindy HAS been trying to tell her story.Only to be silenced at every turn, by those who were protecting Morris and his empire.Until now.

    How exactly was she silenced?

    And what changed?


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    Ruby,

    After hearing the latest news, how does it feel in your body?


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    I have a say I’m a little confused. It’s stated that “the family” (RM’s family, he & his wife I presume) were visiting the victim’s home. Was RM’s wife not sleeping in the same room with him? Seems to me highly unusual that you would put a married couple in seperate bedrooms. ??


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    Ruby: He confessed to his church.
    He left the pulpit.
    He sat down with her and her father and apologized.
    He was counseled and rehabilitated.

    He has not paid for the counseling she had to get and may still need (he offered to pay for some and only if she signed a non-disclosure agreement).
    He has used his version of the events which included letting people think it was a woman close to him in age and able to consent to gain sympathy for himself (and also to profit from book sales and guest preaching).
    What he did for over 4 years and his downplaying of it since should disqualify him from having authority over others whether as a teacher, pastor, or security guard.


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    Ruby: Accountability by what standard?

    He confessed to his church.
    He left the pulpit.
    He sat down with her and her father and apologized.
    He was counseled and rehabilitated.

    And he’s devoted his life to spread the gospel to millions of people.

    If you think accountability means he should never work again or that he should be perpetually tarred and feathered, you’re way off.

    Maybe you should actually open your Bible and read the bit about the qualifications of elders. Especially the one that says he must have a good reputation with outsiders (1 Timothy 3:7). Tell me this: How does the fact that he diddled a child and covered up by deliberate obfuscation for years (calling it a moral failure with a young lady) help him have a good reputation with outsiders?

    Morris can work, just never again as a pastor.


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    12 years old is a child even in their terminology they are minimizing and trying to mask that he abused a kid.


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    Ask the church about layoffs years ago. While Robert Morris was getting a pretty penny, the church had no unemployment insurance for laid/off workers. No safety nets for any of those former employees while they had to look for other jobs. I’m sure none of these former workers will go on the record as my recollection is they all had to sign NDAs.


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    Gus,

    The pressure in that church to give was unreal!


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    elastigirl:
    Evalyn,

    forgiveness and accountability are 2 different things.

    not insisting on accountability is why the christian church is the disgusting hypocritical mess of corruption and low standards for character and integrity.worthy of all the criticism and derision it receives.

    And why many people, including myself, see Christianity and the supposed transformative power of the Gospel as a crock of sh**. And see either God as puny (can’t clean up the dumpster fire that is the church) or doesn’t give a sh** that his erstwhile followers and their antics drive people away from God.


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    He now admits to committing a sexual crime against a child which is far more serious than the extramarital affair myth he had created and repeated consistently. He lied in his book about the reason for his two-year “restoration.” He lied about the victim’s father giving his blessing for a return to ministry. I see a pattern here. Fortunately his career is over. Why don’t we focus on why the victim wasn’t heard despite her best efforts, and on what we can do to listen better.


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    I’ve read through a few articles on this situation and must be missing something. What has been happening between the time of the emails to Gateway in 2005-2007 and now? What caused this to become a story nearly 20 years after Cindy was seeking counseling compensation? Why did Cindy’s parents not pursue legal action at the original time this came to light?


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    Laura Johnson,

    Amen to this comment. Very well said!


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    kim: What caused this to become a story nearly 20 years after Cindy was seeking counseling compensation? Why did Cindy’s parents not pursue legal action at the original time this came to light?

    What is your current understanding on why victims of sexual abuse do or don’t do ________?


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    ChrisW: kim: What caused this to become a story nearly 20 years after Cindy was seeking counseling compensation? Why did Cindy’s parents not pursue legal action at the original time this came to light?

    What is your current understanding on why victims of sexual abuse do or don’t do ________?

    Those that want to respond to your questions need a baseline of your understanding, so they can answer efficiently.


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    ChrisW: Those that want to respond to your questions need a baseline of your understanding, so they can answer efficiently.

    This is not a case of a victim waiting 20 years to come forward

    She came forward at 17
    Her father was able to confront RM at the time

    She came forward again in her 30s twice

    This is a case of a victim coming forward over and over again

    The questions ‘why now?’ and ‘why again?’ are valid questions

    They’re not answered correctly by saying ‘victims wait years.’

    She didn’t wait years

    She talked at 17 and over and over since then

    She’s not a kid
    She’s a grandmother

    There’s more to this story that isn’t out yet, and it isn’t answered by saying victims often wait awhile

    She also claims there are more victims or that she thinks there might be more victims without yet providing evidence to back up that claim.

    She sued him in 2005 but didn’t settle. If she didn’t settle, why drop the suit? SOL? If SOL, why sue then in the first place?

    The ‘I’m not scared anymore’ claim doesn’t fly in 2024. She wasn’t scared in 2005 or 2007

    What is different now?

    And there are a lot of bogus claims floating around.

    Facts matter.


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    C Lewis,

    Robert Morris admitted to this crime. And you say “no proof”. Wow! Denial is real. Who have you sexually abused?? Read 2 sam 12 you will find out what God says about the sin that David committed. Despised God and His Word.


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    Supposedly happened in both states. And I would imagine that is correct if it continued for 4.5 years.
    Mike Stidham,


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    J. M. Smothers:
    I just finished listening to a sermon of his from 2023 about healing from trauma.In it, he talks about being emotionally and physically abused by his mother, and he also talks about being sexually abused.He’s also very open about being sexually promiscuous in his teens before he got saved.But he has apparently never been open about what happened with Cindy after he got saved.Room 12 (the title of one of his sermons) takes on a whole different meaning when you think of him inviting a 12-year-old girl into his room.

    I have always admired him for the fact he appeared to be transparent about his past. But he carefully left out the fact that he abused a minor. ( I’m sure Debbie had a lot to do with that concealing of the truth too )
    By giving his listeners the impression he was honest, it will have prevented them looking any further.
    Highly manipulative and deceptive.
    I genuinely liked him and have gruen through his teaching but have no respect for him now.
    Having been abused myself as a teenager by a church leader and not being believed ( even in court ) I really feel for Cindy and she’s been very courageous in coming forward.


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    Anna

    Initially, Robert Morris did lie about this issue recently, claiming that he had a sexual mistake with a young lady (not implying a 12 yr. old minor) and that he was also a teenager at 19 y.o. when he was actually 21 y.o. at that time (1982), married to his present wife and with a young child; and that there was no sexual intercourse, when Cindy indicated in the next 4.5 yrs. was that she was propositioned by him of sex all the time. It is indeed disappointing coming from a hypocritical pastor – as most big pastors have SEXUAL or FINANCIAL SINS within the church. To think, that they were using God's pulpit, to preach while with the unforgiven sin of lies, and their mega-church does not listen to complaints like this and are supporting the pastor instead – shameful indeed. Shameful husband and father to your only daughter and 2 sons. Lying also of Mr. Trumps' winning the 2020 election; both of them have similar sexual sins. Spiritual leaders should never involve themselves in any politics; they should only be Servants of God and not any politician. May God deal with him appropriately.


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    Jess,

    Matthew 18:15-17
    New International Reader’s Version
    When Someone Sins Against You
    15 “If your brother or sister sins against you, go to them. Tell them what they did wrong. Keep it between the two of you. If they listen to you, you have won them back. 16 But what if they won’t listen to you? Then take one or two others with you. Scripture says, ‘Every matter must be proved by the words of two or three witnesses.’ (Deuteronomy 19:15) 17 But what if they also refuse to listen to the witnesses? Then tell it to the church. And what if they refuse to listen even to the church? Then don’t treat them as a brother or sister. Treat them as you would treat an ungodly person or a tax collector.

  183. Pingback: Pastor of Texas megachurch resigns following sexual abuse allegations | Washington Examiner


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    <strong>Ed note: Another mean spirited, politically motivated, not trauma informed, uneducated, and who supports a person who recently confessed to molesting a 12-year-child.

    This is one of the saddest stories I have heard in a long time. I have to wonder about the timing as well. Could be political?, we likely will never know. The man is brilliant. He can give a depth of undeerstanding of scripture unlike anything I have ever heard. So much heartbreak all around. Would the haters be happy if he took his own life. If you confess and get rehabilitation what else can you do? Interesting, that he has already decided to retire before this revelation. I am so sorry for the young lady. I am so sorry for his family. I am sorry for him. Will great sums of money satisfy and give peace to the offended parties? It is way too much to take in. Only God Himself can sort this out. I beleieve He will.


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    Ed. note: Another comment by a person who is not trauma informed, not biblically literate, uneducated to the facts and who appears to support a person who confessed to molesting a 12-year-child.

    C Lewis,

    I am in total agreement! She wants attention and thinks this will heal her by Bringing down Robert Morris. Evidently her counseling she got was not Bible based and why did she ask for 50,000 in the first place. A very sad situation. I think she needs more than counseling! ! I also bet her father has passed and she feels she can bring this up! The man sought help and has been forgiven by God. She is spiritual warfare!!
    Just my opinion-


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    Lyndsey,

    Believed her, yes. But parental failure to report the crime to police is outrageous. This was a CRIME. Too many people are willing to brush crimes against minors under the rug!


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    Evalyn,

    I’m tired of the comment “only throw stones if you’ve never sinned”. That’s ridiculous. All of us have sinned. This was a CRIME, not a “moral failure”. And not a one-time heat of the moment incident. This went on for over four years! He should be punished accordingly no matter how much time has passed. And the fact that he downplayed it at first hoping it would go away like it has in the past just proves that he was never truly “repentant” for what he did. He got caught and played the game so he could keep on growing his ministry. Not to mention he repeatedly downplayed it over the years when he would “confess” to his congregation during his sermons. He lied about what he did, lied about being repentant, lied about being forgiven. This is not a repentant heart. He was saving himself and sacrificing Cindy in the process. Blaming her for being “flirtatious”? She was a CHILD. He was the ADULT. He could have made a different decision. And then for his wife to “forgive” her? Unbelievable. I have lived in the area almost my whole life, I’ve heard him preach many times, and I didn’t want to believe it at first but this is not something that can be ignore or excused. I’m all about grace and forgiveness, but that doesn’t mean that there are no consequences.

    And for all the comments about how many years have passed, unless you’ve ever been a victim of sexual abuse or assault, you have absolutely no idea what that does to a person, and especially a child. Some never recover, especially when they’ve been “blamed” for it in any capacity. It’s not like this came out of the blue, she’s been telling people about him for years and no one would listen or do anything about it. She also was only asking for reimbursement for all of the therapy she’s had over the years caused by him! She could have been asking for millions and she wasn’t. My heart hurts for Cindy and what she has endured all these years. He never endured any kind of punishment for his crime, so whatever he gets now is at least some form of justice.


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    Lisa,

    **meant to say “lied about being forgiven BY THE FAMILY”


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    Ruby:
    Why did she refuse to sign an NDA in 2005

    Are you serious in asking this? Signing the NDA would take away her voice. Having to keep the secret— and the shame—is part of the trauma! But that failure to negotiate a settlement was another trauma she needed to deal with.

    Her father declined to press charges after RM confessed and met with him and declined again 2 years later when RM went back into ministry.

    You clearly don’t understand how different things were in the 80’s. Pressing charges would have been very difficult. Even now, the process can be very traumatic for the victim, and has a low likelihood of leading to conviction. “Two years later” it was out of her father’s hands because she was an adult.

    How long does she get to harass him?

    It’s not like she has continually harassed him. She made one effort to get a civil penalty that was unsuccessful, and she came forward now. This is not really uncommon.

    If you’re abused by someone and the person confesses, gets rehabilitation, and asks forgiveness from you and your family, how long do you get to attack him?

    Did he REALLY confess? The elders at his church thought he’d had an affair with an adult. Did his wife know that she was 12 when the abuse started? I think she was 17 when it ended…the wife may have been led to believe she was 15 or 16 when it started. I assure you, a 15-16 y/o in the mid 80’s would have been assumed by most everyone to be equally at fault for sexual behavior with a person in their mid 20’s.

    If he didn’t offer a real confession, how could he get proper restoration?

    The only reason he didn’t risk jail time is because her father failed to press charges.That was his decision.

    A decision Cindy’s father likely made in consultation with her. She’d been taught by the church to forgive. She likely reasonably feared harm to her reputation if this were to become public knowledge.

    Why didn’t the church officials who knew what had happened say anything? They should have reported.

    In 1989, when I was 16, I was asked by an adult if I wanted to report abuse another adult had inflicted on me when I was 12-13. Not sexual, but it was illegal. That person had also been very nice to me. I was conflicted. What if this person did the same to another child? Ultimately I decided not to report because it seemed “mean” to me. It wasn’t until decades later that I realized 2 things. A) I shouldn’t have been part of the conversation about reporting. The person asking me, as part of his legal obligation as a mandatory reporter, should have reported. B) That person was grooming me for a sexual relationship, and he was testing how likely I was to tell on him. It wasn’t until nearly 20 years later that I truly grasped how I’d been abused by him.


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    Don Ney,

    Is he, now that RM has resigned? Another naive christian making excuses for another. You must be a Trumper like RM and all of these “Christians”


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    Philip Wagner: Treat them as you would treat an ungodly person or a tax collector.

    And how, exactly, are we to treat the Gentile and the tax collector?


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    The elders claim he’s always been transparent about everything. But when he supposedly divulged his ‘extramarital’ affair, NOT ONE ELDER will say they asked him the age and sex of the parties involved, or if there was more than one instance or victim.
    It has always seemed difficult for a FOUNDING PASTOR to be disciplined. He gets off by saying, “This church wouldn’t even exist if it weren’t for me.” That’s the unspoken elephant in the room.


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    Ruby,

    Cindy did the right thing by not signing an NDA. She was able to keep her voice and the voice of other victims. It would have swept the crime under a rug.


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    Lyndsey,

    I called 90.9 I heard a sermon rm preached that said when his daughter got pregnant his thought was he hope the kids would not be to dark. . I notified the radio station in call and writing they ignored me. I’m just saying. The cover up. Being a survivor of sexual assault at 14 by my teacher at private school. I was told the same thing. Don’t tell . I was bullied by my classmates and it continued for years. So glad people revealing their sexual assault and getting justice for the shame we carried for years . I’m 63 years old still in therapy.


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    Ed Note: Your story and forgiveness is your story. Your man NEVER admitted to the molestation of a girl. He is still in denial. He has not fully repented and that codswallop that he has walked in purity is overwhelming. He never walked in purity while having this unconfessed sin. He never repented. I suspect you and yours had some pretty poor teaching at Gateway.

    We must pray for reconciliation and healing for all concerned.

    Vengence is El Shaddai’s role alone!! Romans 12

    Love rejoices in the truth.

    Ganging up on those who are hurting is not what we are commanded to do.

    Yes, I was a victim also.

    Total forgiveness and cleansing By the Blood of Christ is the key to recovery!!

    Though our sins be as scarlet they shall be washed whiter than snow. Isaiah


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    dee,

    Im glad you brought up about PRM’s personal abuse. There’s the seed. AND Cindy’s parents put some water on that seed. She’s had to reconcile this part of the trauma as well. Now that’s pride across the board and a very sick family dynamic on both sides. Pride is God’s most hated sin because ALL things wicked can come from it.

    I don’t attend his church but listened to him. I must say that I got a creepy feeling from him and stopped listening. Of late, I went back to listen to his teachings because he is gifted and seemed sincere BUT his constant accolade of how perfect Debbie is always seemed strange to me. I still got a creeped out feeling from him…maybe it was his false humility that seeped through. Lastly, he’s a wordsmith, right? He loves words. I find that his constant choice of words and reference of “a young lady” reveals he and “perfect” Debbie have been liars and partners in this. Now, we see partial restoration is NO restoration!


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    Joy,

    “Just my opinion-”
    ++++++++++

    i can only hope cindy doesn’t read your cruel & stupidly presumptuous comment.


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    J. M. Smothers,

    Robert Morris was older than the 12 year old girl and claimed to be a Christian. She trusted him and he took advantage of her. He can be forgiven but I sure wouldn’t want him preaching to me and sure wouldn’t give him any money for his ministry. He needs to find another job!!


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    Melly Arnie:
    dee,

    Im glad you brought up about PRM’s personal abuse. There’s the seed. AND Cindy’s parents put some water on that seed. She’s had to reconcile this part of the trauma as well. Now that’s pride across the board and a very sick family dynamic on both sides. Pride is God’s most hated sin because ALL things wicked can come from it.

    I don’t attend his church but listened to him. I must say that I got a creepy feeling from him and stopped listening. Of late, I went back to listen to his teachings because he is gifted and seemed sincere BUT his constant accolade of how perfect Debbie is always seemed strange to me. I still got a creeped out feeling from him…maybe it was his false humility that seeped through. Lastly, he’s a wordsmith, right? He loves words. I find that his constant choice of words and reference of “a young lady” reveals he and “perfect” Debbie have been liars and partners in this. Now, we see partial restoration is NO restoration!

    That’s exactly my experience as well. I attended the church for years but the feeling of “false humility” is so obvious. I even think he is not that gifted at all. The church concept and the theology of prosperity and wealth is very attractive to superficial Christians like I was back then.


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    There’s two issues. One is the molestation, that everyone knows about. The second one, is one that is not very well known, which is, since 2005 Robert Morris has been lying and deceiving people in what he has written and preached concerning his salvation and deliverance from sexual immorality as seen in the documentation below. How could he have been openly deceiving people since 2005 in his books and sermons and not still have been a charlatan, a wolf in sheep’s clothing, all that time?

    Timeline

    July 29, 1961: Robert Morris Date of Birth

    May 3, 1980: Robert & Debbie Morris marriage date

    February 16, 1981: Robert Morris age of salvation: 19 years old (says so in his book screenshot) plus on July 19, 1961 minus February 16, 1981 would put him at 19 years old (he wouldn’t be 20 until July of that year) for his stated true born experience in Room 12 at Jake’s Hotel. Robert Morris states in Room 12 sermon up until February 16, 1981 (that were just married 8 months earlier) that he been sexually immoral with several girls while married to Debbie with “many, many affairs”

    December 25, 1982: Molestation of Cindy Clemishire begins that lasts over 4 years

    March 1987: Robert Morris’ recent reply to molestation accusation “In March of 1987, this situation was brought to light, and it was confessed and repented of. I submitted myself to the Elders of Shady Grove Church and the young lady’s father. They asked me to step out of ministry and receive counseling and freedom ministry, which I did.”

    January 1, 2005: Robert Morris releases book From Dream To Destiny through Regal Books. In the first chapter The Pride Test Robert Morris lies and says the reason he steps down from ministry is due to everyone saying how gifted he was and this caused him to get a big head and God orchestrated him to step down from ministry to deal with this pride because “people had told me I was so gifted that I could do anything. But it didn’t take long for me to learn it wasn’t true. I learned that without God’s blessing, I can’t do anything. It’s only through the blessing of God that we can have true success. This is a valuable lesson I never would have learned without first stepping out of ministry.” He says this Pride Test and 9 other tests are “tests that each of us must pass before God lets us realize our dream.” According to Robert Morris, his stepping out of ministry because he got a big head from everyone telling him how gifted he was, is the test God orchestrated before allowing him to realize his dream.

    2005: Cindy Clemishire says “The leadership at Gateway received actual notice of this crime in 2005 when I sent an email directly to Robert Morris’ Gateway email address. Former Gateway elder, Tom Lane, received and responded to my email, acknowleging that the sexual abuse began on December 25, 1982, when I was 12 years old.”

    2007: Cindy goes on to say “Again in 2007, my then attorney Gentner Drummond (the current Attorney General of Oklahoma) sent a letter to Rober Morris with the hope that help reimburse me for the thousands of dollars I had expended in counseling as a result of the this abuse. His attorney acknowledged the dates as well and then attempted to blame me for the abuse.”

    April 15, 2011: Robert Morris says that after he got saved (February 16, 1981) that Satan tempted him to go back to that old lifestyle he had been living but he says that God spoke to him and prevented him from going back. This is lie, he did go back to his old lifestyle.

    September 17, 2014: Robert Morris says in sermon Room 12 Rebellious Roots that while being a traveling evangelist that he had not truly surrendered his life to Christ before and that is why he was living a sexually immoral life but he was born again on February 16, 1981 leaving his sexual immorality behind because “he didn’t want return to his old life”.

    February 14, 2022: Debbie Morris even lies about this “The greatest lifetime gift Robert has ever given me is a surrendered heart to the Lord. On February 16, 1981, Robert yielded his heart and life to the Lord. It was a game changer—everything changed! I can’t imagine how chaotic our lives could have been. He wasn’t instantly perfect, and for the record, he still isn’t perfect. But when he asked Jesus into his heart, he truly became the man of my dreams.” https://gatewaypeople.com/stories/a-morris-love-story

    Even though Debbie says this date was a game changer for Robert Morris, she knows this was no game changer for him, that after Jake’s Motel, the following year, he molested a child for over 4 years. After Jake’s Motel on February 16, 1981 when he asked Jesus into his heart, she says “he truly became the man of my dreams.” How can she say that knowing he was molesting that girl for over 4 years and knowing there wasn’t this change that the both of them fabricate. Why does Debbie agree to go along with this lie?

    September 19, 2023: New and expanded edition is released for Dream To Destiny and even with the edits that were done in the book was there an edit to remove the lie of why Robert Morris stepped out of the ministry? No, he still has no problem deceiving people. If he had repented of this lie, he could have removed this from the book in this new edition.

    June 15th, 2024: Elders at Gateway Church said in a statement that Morris was transparent with them about his past and they believe he has been biblically restored to ministry.
    “Pastor Robert has been open and forthright about a moral failure he had over 35 years ago when he was in his twenties and prior to him starting Gateway Church. He has shared publicly from the pulpit the proper biblical steps he took in his lengthy restoration process,” they said. “The two-year restoration process was closely administered by the Elders at Shady Grove Church and included him stepping out of the ministry during that period while receiving professional counseling and freedom ministry counseling,” they said. “Since the resolution of this 35-year-old matter, there have been no other moral failures. Pastor Robert has walked in purity, and he has placed accountability measures and people in his life. The matter has been properly disclosed to church leadership.”

    June 18, 2024: Gateway Church releases this statement “The elders’ prior understanding was that Morris’s extramarital relationship, which he discussed many times throughout his ministry, was with ‘a young lady’ and not abuse of a 12-year-old child,” “Even though it occurred many years before Gateway was established, as leaders of the church, we regret that we did not have the information that we now have.” But Cindy Clemishire says “The leadership at Gateway received actual notice of this crime in 2005 when I sent an email directly to Robert Morris’ Gateway email address. Former Gateway elder, Tom Lane, received and responded to my email, acknowleging that the sexual abuse began on December 25, 1982, when I was 12 years old.”

    Lastly: Robert Morris says in one of the videos that he & Debbie shared about his sexually immoral life with their children. Since the leadership of the church knew about the molestation according to Cindy Clemishire since 2005 (so it was not an uncovered secret that no one knew about), did Robert Morris actually tell his children? If so, did his son, the current senior pastor of Gateway Church, Josh Morris know about this? He should have to answer whether he did or not. He needs to make a public statement concerning this. The only way that may happen though is if there is enough uproar over this being disclosed.

    Plus is Gateway leadership going to correct their statement and tell the truth that Gateway leadership did know about the molestation according to the email the victim says she received from church elder Tom Lane going back in 2005?


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    While traveling/preaching as an evangelist, Robert Morris says he was doing drugs and living a sexually immoral life with “many many affairs” and “I was 19 years old when I gave my life to the Lord and everything changed I didn’t have any desire to go back to that old life.” (See sermon video transcript below). He preaches in the this sermon series that he was living in sin as a hypocrite before that because of the sexually immoral live he was living because he said that he had not had a born again experience yet due to the fact he had not not surrendered his will to God, but he says that all changed on February 16, 1981 in Room 12 at Jake’s Motel.

    He says a person is not born again if they have not surrendered their will, which was evident in his life that he had not surrendered his will with the drugs and sexual immorality he said he was living in. On February 16, 1981 he says that is when he surrendered his will and was born again. He says that evidence he was not born again before that was the drugs and sexual immorality he was living in but after surrendering his will on February 16,1981 he “didn’t have any desire to go back to that old life.”

    This is the lie he tells in the Root Causes Room 12 sermon series 9 years ago because just 1.5 years after Jake’s Motel on December 25, 1982 he starts molesting a 12 year old girl for over years. He deceives the congregation into believing he walked away from sexual immorality on February 16, 1981 which he had not. The big deal he makes about this date is how great it was that he got saved and set free from this immorality, which he did not. In this sermon series from 9 years ago he has no qualms apparently in deceiving people with this. Making up the radical conversion story of how he was living in sexual immorality before Jake’s Motel and how he wasn’t afterwards , is like Joseph Smith (the founder of Mormonism) making up his radical conversion story about how he came to the Lord (after which Joseph led a very sexually immoral life with many, many women).

    If Robert Morris didn’t have this radical conversion where he walked away from living a sexually immoral life on February 16, 1981, why does he say he did? Especially since he makes the point that he was an unsaved traveling evangelist living a sexually immoral life because he had not truly been born again yet until he got saved on February 16, 1981 and then he says things changed. In fact Robert Morris says in his sermon that if person does not experience a radical change they have not been saved yet. But he still points to February 16, 1981 as when he had this radical change of leaving his sexual immoral life behind, which he did not.

    After the victim’s father found out about the molestation he calls Shady Grove Church to let them know if they did not remove him from the ministry he would be calling the Sheriff.

    In Robert Morris’ book “From Dream To Destiny” published in 2011 and “Dream To Destiny” published in 2023, Chapter 1 The Pride Test, he instead says that stepping away from ministry in 1987 was due to God dealing with him about getting a big head because of all the people who were telling him how gifted he was, so due to this God wanted him to step away from ministry for awhile to deal with this pride.

    How do we know that this stepping out of ministry is not a different stepping out than the stepping out of ministry he had to do when the victim’s father called Shady Grove Church about the molestation? Because on the second page of Chapter One of “The Pride Test” in From Dream To Destiny he says he was 25 years old when he is stepping down to deal with pride from everyone telling him how gifted he was, that went to his head. Below Pastor Robert says the molestation was brought to light in March of 1987 to Shady Grove Church. Robert’s date of birth is July 29, 1961, so in March of 1987, Robert was 25 years old (as he would not be 26 years until July 29th of that year) and that is how old he says he was in the book when he stepped down from ministry. Was he stepping down from ministry twice when he was 25 years old, when the one he was stepping down from the ministry in March 1987 was supposed to be for 2 years? Or is that 2 years of stepping down from ministry now being re-framed as God telling him to step down from ministry to deal with pride that came as a result of people telling him how gifted he was?

    He lies about God telling him to step out the ministry to deal with pride due to people telling him how gifted he was, instead of it being because he was busted for molestation and was asked to step out of ministry with the threat of this being turned over to the Sheriff if he did not.

    Robert Morris’ reply to molestation accusation “In March of 1987, this situation was brought to light, and it was confessed and repented of. I submitted myself to the Elders of Shady Grove Church and the young lady’s father. They asked me to step out of ministry and receive counseling and freedom ministry, which I did.”

    So in this book published in 2005 & 2023 he is deceiving and lying to people as to why he stepped away from ministry back in 1987. How can he openly deceive like this and not have a problem with it. How could he not have his conscience bothered by all this deception with these lies he has been telling that we know of since 2005. Does this not make him a complete charlatan, a wolf in sheep’s clothes, if he can be totally unrepentant of this web of lies he has been spinning since 2005?

    Pastor Robert Morris in this sermon Have You Been Born Again? – Pastor Robert Morris (youtube.com) from August 29, 2012 about who has really been born again and who has not that:

    18:41
    I was saved on February 16th now I remember the date my wife does not remember the date she
    18:47
    didn’t write it down anywhere she doesn’t know the date but she does remember truly being SL say born again
    18:53
    so let let me give you analogy on on whether you have to know the date or not you don’t have to know the date by the way but let me give you the analogy um
    19:01
    um you might forget the date that you were married
    19:09
    once you probably won’t forget it again if your spouse hears about it but you you might forget the date but you don’t
    19:16
    forget the event you don’t forget that that your life radically changed at that
    19:22
    point and someone moved in with you and is living with you now and has been
    19:28
    living with you since then okay when you get saved listen your life radically
    19:33
    changes and someone moves in with you see I I don’t understand and I
    19:40
    really believe that people need to nail down that maybe you were saved after you
    19:46
    think you were if your life has truly changed whenever your life changed that’s when you got saved but if your
    19:51
    life hasn’t changed radically you haven’t been saved yet

    Since Robert say he was saved on February 16, 1981 and “if your life hasn’t changed radically you haven’t be saved yet” what does that say about his “salvation” since he did not radically change from his sexually immoral life since he was molesting a girl starting on December 25, 1982 for over 4 years.

    Since Robert believes “if your life hasn’t changed radically you haven’t been saved yet” why does he say he was saved on February 16, 1981 in the same breath in this 1 minute and 10 second video clip from the sermon?

    In this sermon by Robert Morris from April 15, 2011 Am I Saved? // Robert Morris (youtube.com) he says that after he got saved (February 16, 1981) that Satan tempted him to go back to that old lifestyle he had been living but he says that God spoke to him and prevented him from going back. Why would he lie about this? Why would make up this lie about God speaking to him and him heeding to what God said to him? This is a lie because it is evident in the molestation for that went on for years that this did not take place, he did not resist the temptation. Why share that this is your testimony when it did not happen since he did yield to the temptation?

    21:47
    you’re saved you are not your own you don’t belong to you anymore. I can remember it not long after I got
    21:55
    saved Satan started working on me and I started getting tempted to go back to that old lifestyle
    22:01
    it was like God reached out and grabbed me by the neck and pulled me up like
    22:07
    this and said to me did you ask me to be your Lord and I said yes he said well
    22:14
    I’m gonna be Lord then if you’ve been
    22:21
    saved you’ve had that experience you’ve had Jesus say you’re not going back, you
    22:28
    belong to me now you’re mine you’re my child now


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    Drew P,

    What did Driscoll do? I’ve never heard of him


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    This is the most accurate summation of the situation. Had they done this there would not be this huge scandal and likely destruction of a very large body of believers.

    T H I S is the result of a lot of people’s bad decisions and failure to act appropriately according to God’s word


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    Blake: It has always seemed difficult for a FOUNDING PASTOR to be disciplined. He gets off by saying, “This church wouldn’t even exist if it weren’t for me.” That’s the unspoken elephant in the room.

    Mars Hill = Driscoll … Willow Creek = Hybels … Harvest Bible Chapel = MacDonald … IHOP = Bickle … Gateway = Morris … etc. etc.

    This is the problem with personality-driven ministries … when the leader fails, the church falls. When the Main Thing is not the main thing, the thing ceases to exist.


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    Blake: The elders claim he’s always been transparent about everything.

    Well, the world can him clearly right now!


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    Max: Well, the world can him clearly right now!

    meant to say “Well, the world can see him clearly right now!”


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    Nan: If you confess and get rehabilitation what else can you do?

    Pursue another career … child abuse is a ministry disqualifier.

    Nan: Only God Himself can sort this out.

    He already has.


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    Sad situation. Robert Morris should be prosecuted in Texas since the statute of limitations has been removed in 2007. He didn’t tell the whole truth to his Gateway Church regarding the victims age of 12. The Internet says Morris has a Net Worth of 117 Million dollars, if that is true then he can simply retire but others for the same crime are in Prison. Sad situation for the Church & his family.


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    Well David was a murderer.

    Ava Aaronson: Should a pedophile, of the hebephilia kind, be a teacher? It seems that’s not possible, once found out. The teacher loses their teaching license. Forever.

    Should a pedophile, of the hebephilia kind, be a counselor? It seems that’s not possible, once found out. The counselor loses their professional license. Forever.

    Should a pedophile, of the hebephilia kind, be a social worker? It seems that’s not possible, once found out. The social worker loses their professional license. Forever.

    Should a pedophile, of the hebephilia kind, be a medical doctor, psychiatrist? It seems that’s not possible, once found out. The physician loses their medical license. Forever.

    Should a pedophile, of the hebephilia kind, be a pastor, youth pastor, any kind of pastor?


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    Editor’s note: Here’s the real part. Morris likely used his fixation on demons to groom his people to blame somebody else for his actions. That includes the actions of the members of the church. Demons are real but the Holy Spirit is alive and well in the life of the Christian, protecting them. I have written about his obsession in this area for a long time. Here is a link and there are more if you care t get your belief system rattled. https://thewartburgwatch.com/2014/12/01/arcs-robert-morris-paul-preached-under-the-influence/

    Heres the ugly part of the truth. Demons are real, and they are not uncommon. The scriptures are perhaps not always the clearest in affirming this as a proved positive, but they are consistent in neglecting to affirm it as a falsity. The fact is, Christians can and do have demons. All Christians, besides Christ, himself (yet even he, of course, struggled with the symptoms of demons external to him, even moreso than all Christians do, to this day). I am a minister of deliverance in Jesus name, and I can testify to this fact. I have driven demons out of pastors, schizophrenics; the age in Christ has little bearing on how many demons one can have, lest they engage in direct imprecatory deliverance prayer on a consistent basis, that is). Pastor Robert has been used by God, undeniably, but that doesnt mean that Satan cant operate through him as well as any one of us… this is the truth, and yet still, the blame falls upon him, squarely. The devil does not force us to do anything (even in cases the Catholics might call “full” (or especially “perfect”) possessions), but rather compels us to act on the temptations he has already kindled in our hearts. I will say this much, more. Cindy can be hurt by Debbie’s expression of forgiveness of her, but were the roles reversed, she would undoubtably need to extoll forgiveness for whoever it was that engaged in infidelity with her husband. Im not victim blaming, whatsoever. Its just that all too often, people think that one persons sins are to blame for another, and this results in compounding trauma. Every person will be justified or condemned by their own words, and it wasnt wrong of Debbie to tell Cindy that she forgave her, and thats just a simple fact. Its easy to get wrapped up in an overt injustice, but trauma is only healed when the sufferer takes full accountability for their own suffering, after all, Christ does not preach forgiveness for us to continue to label ourselves as victims… this is my advice, as a deliverance minister. My heart and prayers go out to Cindy, her family, especially her father, and also to pastor Robert and Debbie Morris. I pray that he realizes that he should probably step down from such a capacity as pastor. Its not that he cant repent or that God wont forgive him, or that he can never minister again, but merely that his time watching over that congregation should probably be over.. as Paul said to turn him over to Satan for the destruction of his flesh, that his soul may eventually be saved in the day of judgement. I pray that Cindy can begin to focus on herself, and not vengeance or retribution, but to lead a life of peace, awareness of conviction, and true repentence unto salvation, just as I pray for Robert and Debbie in Jesus name. I dont presume to know the whole story, but these are my thoughts regarding this article. I am glad to know of this disturbing allegation, and I pray peace and healing over Cindy and family especially in Jesus name.


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    My daughter was sexually abused by her stepfather and his father for 3 years, starting at age 9.

    The father was an elder in a small town Baptist church AND HE TAUGHT A CHILDREN’S SUNDAY SCHOOL CLASS!

    Human service investigator closed the complaint on this information.

    Stepfather’s investigation was also closed based on the information my daughter had become sexually active after the abuse happened. Sexually acting out is one of the signs of sexual abuse.

    My daughter was warned not to tell as it would break up her family and adversely affect her step grandfathers health. She finally reported the abuse at age 16.


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    Ella hammon,

    “T H I S is the result of a lot of people’s bad decisions and failure to act appropriately according to God’s word”
    ++++++++++++++++++++

    ‘God’s word’ can be conjectured to say just about anything one wants it to say.

    (as demonstrated by many comments here)

    what didn’t happen was common sense, honesty, integrity, unselfishness, & other things of a moral & ethical nature.

    …things my agnostic cousins insist on for themselves in their own personal conduct because of their own high integrity standards, at their own expense.

    the point is many christians (leaders and lay) conjecture ‘God’s word’ to justify any number of unethical, cruel, destructive and stupid things.


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    Editor’s note: How little you all know! The truth in this situation might really surprise you. Why do you assume this is from the political left? Bless your hearts.

    Ruby,

    good point!!!….. maybe there is some political motivation (follow the breadcrumbs)


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    Joseph M:
    Editor’s note: Here’s the real part. Morris likely used his fixation on demons to groom his people to blame somebody else for his actions. That includes the actions of the members of the church. Demons are real but the Holy Spirit is alive and well in the life of the Christian, protecting them. I have written about his obsession in this area for a long time.Here is a link and there are more if you care t get your belief system rattled. https://thewartburgwatch.com/2014/12/01/arcs-robert-morris-paul-preached-under-the-influence/

    Heres the ugly part of the truth. Demons are real, and they are not uncommon. The scriptures are perhaps not always the clearest in affirming this as a proved positive, but they are consistent in neglecting to affirm it as a falsity. The fact is, Christians can and do have demons. All Christians, besides Christ, himself (yet even he, of course, struggled with the symptoms of demons external to him, even moreso than all Christians do, to this day). I am a minister of deliverance in Jesus name, and I can testify to this fact. I have driven demons out of pastors, schizophrenics; the age in Christ has little bearing on how many demons one can have, lest they engage in direct imprecatory deliverance prayer on a consistent basis, that is). Pastor Robert has been used by God, undeniably, but that doesnt mean that Satan cant operate through him as well as any one of us… this is the truth, and yet still, the blame falls upon him, squarely. The devil does not force us to do anything (even in cases the Catholics might call “full” (or especially “perfect”) possessions), but rather compels us to act on the temptations he has already kindled in our hearts. I will say this much, more. Cindy can be hurt by Debbie’s expression of forgiveness of her, but were the roles reversed, she would undoubtably need to extoll forgiveness for whoever it was that engaged in infidelity with her husband. Im not victim blaming, whatsoever. Its just that all too often, people think that one persons sins are to blame for another, and this results in compounding trauma. Every person will be justified or condemned by their own words, and it wasnt wrong of Debbie to tell Cindy that she forgave her, and thats just a simple fact. Its easy to get wrapped up in an overt injustice, but trauma is only healed when the sufferer takes full accountability for their own suffering, after all, Christ does not preach forgiveness for us to continue to label ourselves as victims… this is my advice, as a deliverance minister. My heart and prayers go out to Cindy, her family, especially her father, and also to pastor Robert and Debbie Morris. I pray that he realizes that he should probably step down from such a capacity as pastor. Its not that he cant repent or that God wont forgive him, or that he can never minister again, but merely that his time watching over that congregation shouldprobably be over.. as Paul said to turn him over to Satan for the destruction of his flesh, that his soul may eventually be saved in the day of judgement. I pray that Cindy can begin to focus on herself, and not vengeance or retribution, but to lead a life of peace, awareness of conviction, and true repentence unto salvation, just as I pray for Robert and Debbie in Jesus name. I dont presume to know the whole story, but these are my thoughts regarding this article. I am glad to know of this disturbing allegation, and I pray peace and healing over Cindy and family especially in Jesus name.

    All to often “The Devil Made Me Do It” or demons get blamed for peoples’ actions when in reality it was their own fleshly desires. But throwing a supposed demon under the bus is the easiest way to absolve oneself of responsibility for their own actions. To quote C.S. Lewis “There are two equal and opposite errors into which our race can fall about the devils. One is to disbelieve in their existence. The other is to believe, and to feel an excessive and unhealthy interest in them.”


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    I have attended Gateway church for almost 2 years and have learned so much from Pastor Morris sermons.
    This news has left me physically sick to my stomach.
    My sibling was sexually abused at 12 years old and the impact has been generational. It altered my parents and my relationship with him and the way we are allowed to interact affectionately with his children. To hear this news about a beloved, trusted pastor is wrenching.
    Cindy, I hurt that you were assaulted and left so wounded. What happened was wrong but it was not your fault in any way. You are worthy and strong and brave. You have many people praying for you and your family. I pray that you receive the restitution you need to move on.


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    R’as al Ghul,

    He did not leave the pulpit. I have a cassette recording of him preaching dated 1988. He just didn’t do it at Shady Grove.


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    He did not leave the pulpit. I have a cassette recording of him preaching dated 1988.


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    Ed. note You appear to have a superficial knowledge of Scripture. I am so sorry that you have been manipulated. Find a good church and really study your Scriptures. You are merely mouthing talking points.

    Lyndsey,

    Wow! What absolute fools! As a person who also experienced molestation let me just say this.This whole matter is not about ” justice”. It’s about “just payback”!
    People so pious. Pretending to speak for God. They don’t even know who He is. And worst still getting the gullible and ignorant to put an Amen to it. Maybe we had better loose 3/4’s of the New Testament. Just rip it out. It is after all written by the Chief of Sinners. AKA Paul The Apostle.
    I don’t say what Robert Morris did to that kid was right. But that was the old Robert Morris. You enlightened “Christians” don’t even know your own Bible. God said vengeance is mine. I will repay saith The Lord. Guess He meant He, this Lady who it happened to, and the” Christians”.
    Let me add my own spin on this like you all. To Whom do I say thanks for the black eye. For me and Jesus Christ whom you all crucify afresh?


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    Is it beyond the SOL? Miller was 16 and it was in 1996, they charged Mark Aderholt who was 25 in 2018.

    Ok law: If the victim was under 16 years of age at the time of the offense, there is no statute of limitations


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    Lyndsey,

    I just wish this would have been reported then . Now this trauma goes much deeper , affects more people , destruction generationally .


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    Noona, you need to seek help. Go see a counselor and tell then you think a 16 year odld girl, who has been abused for 4 years, should be blamed. You have been manipulated. If a teacher, doctor, firefighter, counselor did what Morris did, he would be in jail and lose the ability to practice their profession, forever. You have fewer values than our secular culture.

    Gus,

    I’m betting it was not so much the 12-year old Cindy but the 16 year old Cindy that his wife was blaming. I’m not saying any of this is right in any way but there is a huge difference in the way of consent between a 12 year old and a 16 year old.


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    He needs to be charged and put in prison for his actions. But God help him when he stands before our Lord.


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    This means that Shadybrook and Gateway did NOT go to the police, and took matters into their own hands! This means Gateway was deceptive and was okay with being deceptive to us members. Petting?! What a deceptive way to say fingering a 12 year old. Young lady?! What a deceitful way to say little girl. I’m really disappointed in Gateway, the family, and Robert. They all were deceitful in their own way.


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    My heart breaks for Cindy, and it hurts for all the other victims who have been shamed into silence by people in positions of authority and respect. The culture of victim-blaming needs to be destroyed.

  225. Pingback: Robert Morris scandal: James Robison refutes claims | Church & Ministries News


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    This is indicative of a “relativist” belief structure that has permeated most churches, watering down the objective “Absolute Truth” authority of scripture. That mixing of worldviews makes it hard to judge what the correct course is. This leads to foolishly thinking stuff like this can be handled internally, hidden behind the walls of the church. Yes, in 1 Corinthians 6:1-8, Paul said to not take fellow believers to court, but that was for financial and small civil cases. It does not apply to a sexual sin that takes place amongst the body of believers. In fact, Jesus says in Matt. 18:16, “What if someone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin? If they do, it would be better for them to have a large millstone hung around their neck and be drowned at the bottom of the sea.” There are severe, and if we are honest, capital consequences that should be applied. At best, that “Christian” has lost their place amongst the other believers, and the church leaders should seek for that person to face the full punishment of the civil laws that are in place…up to, and including, death. God has never messed around with these types of actions, and we, who are not above God, shouldn’t either! 1 Cor 6:18 says, “Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a person commits are outside the body, but whoever sins sexually, sins against their own body.” And I’d say, against the body of Christ!


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    Ben Berwick,

    Thank you, and all who have posted similar comments. Thank you on behalf of so many of who were voiceless and powerless for so many decades – who have struggled to recover and heal spiritually most of all – from the manipulation and dehumanizing by so many who at best just didn’t care. My best friend’s story would break your heart. Sadly she died a premature death likely in part from the distress. She loved God and was a forgiving person. Even so, not long before her death when attending a local church she unexpectedly spotted a couple of the flying monkeys who enabled and made the situation so much worse over the years. It was all she could do to stay until the end of the service. She was physically shaking. Decades later. Despite all her recovery work, the body keeps the score. I miss her so much, but I’m glad she has finally found safety and peace with her beloved Lord.


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    Lyndsey,

    Believed her but yet still did not go to the police. SMH


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    Ed. note: I am sorry for your pain. You were abused and God will punish those who did that. But Morris did NOT confess that he molested a 12 year old child. recalled her a young lady. He must confess that. And since it is a crime, he needs to grab his lawyers and head down to the police station and confess. Will he?

    I too was sexually abused as a 12 year old by a 60 year old man in NM who is privileged to be in the NM Cowboy Hall of Fame. Prior to his vaginal abuse I was raped at 10 years of age. I was taken home to a step father who shoved me away when I sought compassion. I was then gifted to the company of the pedophile who gratified himself daily. I too was 12 years old. I didn’t understand the “affection” but I didn’t have a family system or home life. I was alone more than not. This man presented himself as a concerned/giving rodeo cowboy who would invest his talents/rodeo competition and monies into suffering minors who needed encouragement. I wasn’t his first nor was I his last. After two years of suffering although traveling and rodeoing I refused to participate in the sexual abuse. I refused his company and stayed home refusing his company. Did I mention I was 12 at conclusion. I didn’t have a daddy or a step dad or a family that bonded together. We were the step children and my two brothers left to live with others and I, the only girl existed. If at 12 years old I was aware enough to separate myself from this man what was this girl’s problem. You had family and a daddy. Why would you endure for 4+ years? I might add that I got married at 16 years of age in order to never have to deal with men again. I was married to the same man for 41 years. I hated sexual attention and married him to escape sexually aggressive men. I had nothing for men sexually and ended my marriage after continual sexual accusations by spouse during the entirety of my marriage. We are Christians and were very active in church. He even filled in at churches on Sunday for pastors. The man didn’t have a God heart, he had an attention problem. In summation had the man who abused me apologized and acknowledged his wrong doing I be required as God’s woman to be forgiving. It’s my intent to be who God wants me to as His child. Forgiveness is required!!!! Mr. Morris has admitted his fault and wasn’t in denial to the church. Sin is sin whether it is sexual misconduct, murder, slander or hatred. I think what was done to Jesus Christ is far greater than what was done to this lady yet there’s the need to elevate Robert’s sin over hers! I believe she could have stepped aside any time she chose. Where’s her fault? I was the same age!


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    Ed note: Seriously? Morris wanted her. to sign an NDA and she refused because she wanted to be free to tell her story. Since that time she has tried.She finally found me.That’s why you have the story.Please do some reading. Read my post about the emails.

    Admittedly, I have not read all the comments here.
    I do not blame this child, now a woman for years, in any way shape or form.
    I do have one question…after the 2005 incidents of the exchange of emails…why didn’t her or her parents keep up the pressure and/or go public?
    I ask the question with respect.
    Without being able to explain that someone so very close to my heart


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    I wonder what his good friend Dr Phil thinks of this?


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    Robert Morris did wrong. He should have stepped down from ministry permanently, as the LORD told him, which he refused. So he went back in. Got big. Got a ton of money and said, “Oh Lord, I KNOW you are blessing me!”. Denied the LORD His Will and grew the Morris’ churches. Now he steps down only when his Board tells him to go? He has hurt many thousands of people that attend his 9 churches, wounded them, cut them to the quick, and allowed them to bleed out. As far as I am concerned, he is a miserable sinner who follows a fake god, and not the GOD of the Bible. Yes, he ought to be horse-whipped and bedraggled thru the streets. Then both he and his wife should publicly apologize to Cindy and pay her a million for every year he stole from her childhood. Then go to prison for 3 years and do nothing but read and pray. He should be made an example! He can afford it. And if he is so holy as he says he is, he can tolerate the punishment until GOD calls him home. He will be better off for it I tell you. And let this be a warning to any of you who sexually abuse anyone, ANYONE! GOD knows your sin and you will be found out! We are living in a sex-soaked culture and it’s destroying us, our children and our leadership. Remember the lady who said, “Stop the Insanity!”. She may have been talking about weight gain, but it’s a perfect phrase to cover the insanity we are living in now. Be wise. Read your Bibles. Stay away from the unsaved. Do not covet what they have or do. Get above your life and see the LORD Jesus who loves you, walk daily with Him, and always be on the lookout for the enemy.


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    Riley,

    Riley, Gateway has now become infamous for control. I was told by one of their Care Pastors not to tell people that I was homeless. Why? I was at that time. Was the Care Pastor going to come help me when one of my tires went flat? No. Thank goodness I was able to call the first Gateway person I met before I was told not tell people I was homeless. She and her husband already knew. / People often told me, “You don’t look like a homeless person. You don’t talk like a homeless person. You’re too articulate to be homeless.” I learned about stigma at that time. / It’s come to light that the general Gateway congregation will be shut down if they walk up to a staff member concerned about this matter. The staff have been instructed not to talk about it. They are to route the concerned church member to a specific person. What is that about? Controlling the Gateway brand. At the root of that it’s also about MONEY. / I read the testimony of a cameraman who once worked at Gateway. One day he overheard leadership say, “How can we get more money out of the people?”


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    Ben Berwick,

    Agree! I so appreciate your statement. It takes a lot of strength to finally open up and tell another person what happened to you.


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    Ed. note: Hannah, you sound uneducated.If you want to be a witness for the truth we both share, read about the truth. Your questions have been answeedr ad nauseam. Do you know how much counseling costs when one needs it for years or do you just go forward and have a demon removed? Do you know how child sex abuse was handled in the church 40 years ago? It took the #Metoo, #churchtoo movement about 10 years ago to change how the church did business. I know it is hard to spend a few minutes on google but if you do, you’ll sound more educated as opposed to clueless. Finally, my blog does not allow for political discussion.It never has for 15 years. But you haven’t taken the time to learn that. If Cindy’s story was aimed at any political agenda, I would not have written about it. The people in your church sound hurt, angry and betrayed. There is one person, and one person only who is responsible. And let me add this, a man who likes young girls is not normal, IMO. Do some reading.

    First, sympathy to Cindy for the suffering this abuse has caused her. Question, why didn’t the parents report this to the authorities ? Why is the church solely being chastised for not doing more. What is the parents responsibility (specifically the father!) And asking for $50,000.00 Financial compensation?? How did they come up with a dollar amount for that kind of pain? That certainly wouldn’t be what I’d think someone would seek to make sure there was appropriate consequence for the years of abuse on a minor , and, so he wouldn’t do this to anyone else! Lastly, I have read and heard from others who have seen on “certain” news outlets over the last few days how specific networks are making more of a point that Robert Morris was a spiritual advisor to President Trump, hmm, election coming soon….was the timing of this after all these years somewhat politically motivated? This whole messy situation needs so much prayer and guidance.


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    I’m so sorry Cindy what has happened to you is so traumatic especially that no one listened. I to was molested by my father and no one protected me. I pray God heals you and wraps his loving arms around you. Forgive and it will ease your hurts never forget because it’s the most horrible crime ever. You are beautiful and God loves you. It does take a long time to heal and as a child you either hide and later it does come up. Painful disgusting feelings but you are a victim and I pray you are ok and getting better. God will use you to help others and give them hope. God bless you and I will be putting you up in prayer everyday. Geeze this is bringing up old feelings for me; such a sad thing. You will be ok. God has you and he will be with you. Getting this in the light is your step to healing. God bless I was eight years old and started realizing what had happened in my late 40s. It’s hard and so painful so devistating.


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    Haley,
    Yes Cindy you can get your attorney to file criminal charges in Texas against RM as there is no statute of limitations for child rape, get an attorney that knows this and take him to court and put him in prison where he belongs, he is guilty, he has admitted it, so go and get it done!


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    Mike,

    You bet those Eldlers knew she was 12 and they are lying just like RM keeps lying.
    I hope the congregants see this evil and stop attending all of the Gateway campuses so it totally shuts down, God will shut it down because he hates evil in His church.


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    Ken,

    I believe the statute of limitations on adult rape is past but for child rape there is no statute of limitations in the state of texas.

    She needs to get an excellent attorney to put him in prison.


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    Deceitful Elders,

    You are absolutely correct
    He is a pedophile and should be in prison


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    Ruby,

    The abuse is wrong… The abuse was wrong, the abuse and trauma is real … The emotions going with it, the anxiety, and the difficulty to “move on” is real.

    I watched an episode of Boston Legal last night, an old one. And witnessed how accusers, defenders and attorneys can bend the truth to suit their narrative. Clearly, that bending seems to be true in this story too.

    This is what I am trying to reconcile. I cannot understand “Why now?” and “Why must he call you to discuss what you want?” , “Why not discuss, via the appointed attorney’s “what you want”

    i am also of the view that , had he paid $50 000 it would have been reported as “Hush money”

    He admitted to the victim and her parents to his wrongdoing many years before his book was written. Yet the words in the book is now something of a topic. Had he said “I engaged in a morally incorrect behavior with a 12 year old” would it have changed things?

    I pray for healing for Cindy.

    I pray that the church will be healed.

    I believe that the church is under attack and we as Christians are making it easy for the devil to succeed.

    All church leaders are not bad. The church as a whole does not condone any abuse. Abuse does not happen “within the church”, abuse happens regardless of office or location. Abuse is never condoned by a God-fearing church or people.

    Reverse abuse should not be condoned either …


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    Lyndsey:
    Thank God Cindy’s parents believed her immediately. I am so heartbroken for what she endured.


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    elastigirl: the point is many christians (leaders and lay) conjecture ‘God’s word’ to justify any number of unethical, cruel, destructive and stupid things.

    I’ve observed this too.
    The Bible is a great and wonderful thing, but I also think that it suffers from two great ills.
    Not giving it the credence it deserves at one extreme, and making way too much of it at the other extreme.


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    Ed. note: Sometimes one just has to post something like this. Concubine?? You cannot make this stuff up.

    It takes 2 to tango 4 1/2 years. She wasn’t 2 and he wasn’t 62. She was 12 and he was 21. There is no age of consent in the Bible, but adultery is. She wasn’t married to another man, so she could be taken as a concubine in old testament thinking. I think a young preacher might have that theology on his mind. Bad idea guys. Cleave to your wife, not wives. Keep it on the straight and narrow.


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    Ava Aaronson,

    I just fail to see a connection between an ancestor being shot & him becoming a pervert. What am I missing? Seems to me to be an extremely poor excuse made from whole cloth.
    Also, Debbie? What the hell is wrong w you??? You are as sick & twisted as your husband if you honestly believe that a 12 yr old is to blame for your husbands perversion. Get a clue!


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    EX Gateway Member,

    I’m one of those kids and yeah it was not fun. So not fun I ended up running away from home instead of meeting them for church one Sunday morning because they would not support any attempt I made to move out.

    I didn’t share their religious beliefs and furthermore I was queer. I was over 18 and they stole my documents and kept them in Sion’s office. They would monitor my internet usage for school at the time and I was not allowed outside the house unless I was with my siblings. They would only let me read religious books and I was not allowed music or TV. They would make me watch sermons under the eye of whoever was home to make sure I was paying attention. I was on lockdown.

    I used an old nintendo ds in my closet with an internet browser and logged into my twitter account and would keep my friend updated via DM. She ended up helping organize my escape.

    Only after I was sleeping on my friends couch for a few months did they allow me to grab a select few things I could not fit in my runaway bags.

    Sion and Shannon are not as innocent as they look, and many of my siblings turned a blind eye to my very clear torment.

    I’m grateful I made that decision, and this comment is incredibly cathartic to read.
    After a lifetime of wondering if what happened was really abuse, and being told by Cassie Reid counselors and such that it wasn’t, it’s nice to finally see.

    I’d love to hear more about your experience with them, if you’re comfortable of course. Being in the thick of it for so long and looking for help, it’s almost baffling to my psyche that someone on the outside saw them being awful too given just how charismatic they can be right after traumatizing you.


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    Max,

    The criminal code is not the same as the civil code, thus the statue of limitations can be quite different for the same incident.


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    Exactly! Men are SO SELFISH! Nothing matters, sexcept fulfilling their own lustful narcissistic desires. It’s disgusting how monumentally self centered they can be. They don’t care who they hurt or destroy, so long as they have THEIR WAY.


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    Ed note: he. did this for 4 1/2 years. IMO and the opinion of medical folks, it is not normal for a man in his 20s to desire sex from a kid.You don’t know if he is still affected. And we, as abuse advocates, would be terribly concerned about this tendency.

    Ava Aaronson,

    This quote contains unsubstantiated and possibly incorrect information. There is nothing anywhere that states that Morris’ pedophilias is currently active. There is no statements anywhere that I have read that there were any incidents in the last 40 years. His behavior was reprehensible and evil but passing on inaccurate information is also not right. I would hope the original poster would correct his statement.


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    Gus,

    Could it have been that Debbie discovered this when Cindy was almost an adult and wasn’t aware it began when she was 12? I’m just asking if it was possible. I was married to a man I blindly trusted with all my heart. I had no scope for adultry, yet it happened. Started when he was asked by the co-worker to counsel her (as a friend, not professionally)on her husband and they developed friendship. It is emotionally devastating to the wife. I was a victim of betrayal and it almost destroyed me. I had to forgive, because I was tormented by the betrayal.


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    I have been at Gateway for 17 years. My heart is broken over the allegations that Cindy has brought against Pastor Robert. I love Gateway. I love Pastor Robert and Debbie and the entire family. But loving someone does not negate the reality of what they have done
    Or the consequences for that behavior. Pastor Robert is not denying Cindy’s allegations, although he has a long way to go in truly confessing his sin and repenting. Just because it happened almost 40 years ago and there has supposedly been no further repeating of this aggregious behavior, does NOT absolve him of guilt and accountability. You want to know, “Why now?” I want to know, “”Why then?” Why did a married father who was a “man of God” think this was ok? My heart grieves for Cindy, for Gatway Church, for Pastor Morris’s children and grandchildren, and selfishly for myself. I too was sexually abused by someone in the church. I’ve never told anyone. That experience, which happened over a period of about a year and a half, changed my life forever. I had been abused by others before, but I thought that I was safe with a Christian! I was so wrong! God has brought a lot of healing, but it’s something that will always be there. I’m sad for Pastor Morris and his family, sure. I know firsthand the journey they are embarking on. BUT my true sympathy and compassion is for the victim – Cindy. Why do you feel the need to exonerate Pastor Morris and to question/attack the victim? As the body of Christ who has unwittingly added to Cindy’s pain, shouldn’t we be asking how we can support her and be a part of her healing? Just a thought. God bless.


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    I am a former Christian who abandoned religion when I realized there was no proof for the existence of a god. I can now clearly see the damage that religion has caused the human race. The concept of hell is particularly despicable and in this case the dogma would forgive the abuser while condemning the victim to eternal torture if she rejects the god who failed to protect her. In what sick world is this justice?


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    Wait. He is blaming wives for their husbands cheating? Like in an entirely new way other than she didn’t sexually satisfy him. *She* created that lust in him. WTF?


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    he provides an informative warning to the young ladies stating that when a young man has had sex out of marriage, it is their fault because the young ladies have “awakened” this in the young men. honestly! these pastors – even ones from small town, USA have provided emotional and spiritual abuse to women. it is rampant all over the country. you know what would be really nice? a class-action law suit straight across every denomination that has hidden a rapist pastor, a grooming pastor, a sexual predator pastor, etc. and we include the wives of these men because, for them, apparently, it is more about the $ and saving face. Emerson Eggerich, John MacArthur, Mark Driscoll, Bill Hybels to name a few. who do these men think they are that they are so above the Gospel of the God they claim to serve? always quoting Ephesians 5:22-24 totally neglecting the entire context and chapter. what about verses 3-7? are not these pastors held to this as well? what about verse 21? as I continue to go through SBC deconstruction, I see with clarity which one (submission) is voluntary and which one is commanded (loving) – but to submit one to another … well, it is fair to say men do not like sharing power and adore placing their sins on their wives making it their fault – like Morris, ladies you have awakened this in the young men. class action lawsuit.


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    max,

    ALERT: another “max” has showed up on TWW … the comment at “Fri Jun 28, 2024 at 08:11 PM” is not from ole “Max” who has been hanging out here for years

    max, any chance that you could post under another name?


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    Zech. 11:17: “Woe to my worthless shepherd,who deserts the flock!
    May the sword strike his arm
    and his right eye! Let his arm be wholly withered,his right eye utterly blinded!”

    Jesus refers to this OT passage immediately after his “millstone” judgment on those who abuse children.

    Mt.18:8-9: “And if your hand or your foot causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life crippled or lame than with two hands or two feet to be thrown into the eternal fire.And if your eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than with two eyes to be thrown into the hell of fire.”

    In context, Jesus is NOT giving a general warning here – he is specifically addressing his disciples who wanted to be the greatest in the kingdom.

    Lust for power is the seedbed of all pastoral abuse. How dreadful is the fate of the worthless shepherd!


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    Ed Note: Cindy has consistently said that his wife and child were with them. They were close family friends.
    This post implies that Robert Morris’ wife was with him on Christmas (a Saturday night) in 1982.

    Are you sure that she was there and not with her own family and their new baby on Christmas?


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    Soon enough it will not be a crime anymore and the word molestation will no longer exist, if we Christians empower the minority to push ‘objective morality’ and gender ideology, being legally allowed to change your sex, etc. We are standing by, watching a minority ruin humanity, crushing morals and the simple concept of right and wrong.
    We are allowing it to happen and we will have to account for that. Unless of course we don’t really, truly, deeply believe in God’s existence or in a day of judgement.


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    J. M. Smothers,

    What sermon was it (and how do I find it) where Robert Morris talks about being physically and emotionally abused by his mother!

  260. Pingback: Gateway Church elders, Robert Morris’ son take leave of absence | Church & Ministries News

  261. Pingback: Morris’ Son and Gateway Church Elders Temporarily Step Down Amid Sex Abuse Investigation - McKinney News Source

  262. Pingback: Pastor James Morris' Father, Rob, Faced Sexual Abuse Allegations


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    What Robert Morris did is disgusting, and sweeping it under the rug while he took a “rest” is also disgusting. But I have a serious question that I don’t see an answer to. Respectfully, I’d like to ask why Cindy let this go on for four years. At that point, she would have been close to 16 years old. She could have refused his advances, kicked, screamed, told her parents. He may have caught her off guard when she was 12 in her pink pajamas, but to let it continue for years? I just don’t get that.


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    Noona,

    YES! Why did Cindy let this go on for 4 years?

  265. Pingback: Pastor Robert Morris Ministries Cancels ‘All Future Radio and Television Broadcast Ministry’; Morris Receives No Severance From Gateway


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    I would like to address both parties:

    Cindy, I am so sorry for what happened to you at the age of 12. A man attempted to mollest me in the same manner at the age of 13 (twice). I never went around him again. I would ask you the same question. I got married to my husband at the age of 17 and I was still a virgin but I knew everything that was going to happen on the honeymoon. I think that you knew what you were doing when you continued to meet RM for all that time. I feel like you are not being honest about your part in this.

    Richard: It is not my place to pass judgment on you but you have broken my heart. For the last 15 months I have followed you on TBN and journaled your sermons. Now I am not sure what I am going to do with this journal that I have.


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    Jeanne Kolenda,

    Jeanne Kolenda,

    Chryle Williams,

    You both seem to not understand how abusers can and do manipulate victims. There are many things he could have said to continue the abuse.


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    The church has insurance that should cover them for abuse. Although some insurance companies are no longer paying for abuse. Also, someone like Morris could pay out of pocket given his net worth. I wrote about a pastor who did that .
    My question is why or how did the church plan to pay her? They steward money given as tithes and offerings. If people knew their sacrificial giving was offered as hush money, how would they respond? The perpetrator should pay the victim out of his own pocket. This is the logical manner. Church money offered for this? Wow! Does it appear as a line item on the budget? How could they reason this was a possible option?


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    yes robert morris sinned. all of us sin every day of our lives. robert morris did repent, did ask forgiveness from cindy’s father and stayed away from ministry according to church requirements. the father & elders of the church forgave robert morris. all these years cindy could have prosecuted robert morris, but did not do so. now the statute has expired and she is still claiming to be a victim. i believe this happened to her but i also believe that if you are a child of god you will be an over comer and not a victim all these years. romans says through christ i can do all things. if she wants to be paid for all of her therapy, she can provide receipts.


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    Patty K,

    I truly believe and agree with everything you say here Patty.
    My opinion…..

    I’m requesting lots of prayers for Pastor Robert Morris, and his family,Gateway church in Texas. Accusations against him from 40 years ago? God forgives, whatever it is. Apparently the devil lives inside the accuser, torment in her mind for 40 years? She’s not a Christian!!! Apparently didn’t seek God! She wants compensation, another greedy sue happy person, because she’s not happy!!! She should talk to Joyce Meyers, she’s been through it worse, and more, and God got her through it all. Wonderful woman Joyce Meyers and preacher of the gospel. As is Robert Morris, great wonderful pastor, watch both them every day, and many, many others.I miss watching Robert Morris’s teachings from God. Prayers, and more prayers that all was a big mistake. Take it up with God!!
    P.S. Apparently counseling hasn’t helped Cindy Clemshire.Prayers for her.


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    Chryle Williams,

    I agree with you Patty! Well said.

  272. Pingback: Pastor Robert Morris’ lawyer blamed a 12-year-old girl for initiating sexual contact - LJ News Opinions

  273. Pingback: Pastor Robert Morris’ lawyer blamed a 12-year-old girl for initiating sexual contact | Parlour News Media

  274. Pingback: Lawyer for megachurch pastor blamed 12-year-old for initiating ‘inappropriate’ sexual conduct - iNFO Vi

  275. Pingback: Pastor Robert Morris’ lawyer blamed a 12-year-old girl for initiating sexual contact - Associatted Press

  276. Pingback: Lawyer for megachurch pastor blamed 12-year-old for initiating ‘inappropriate’ sexual conduct – News Goon

  277. Pingback: Pastor Robert Morris’ lawyer blamed a 12-year-old girl for initiating sexual contact – Vishva News Of The World

  278. Pingback: Pastor Robert Morris’ lawyer blamed a 12-year-old woman for initiating sexual contact - DailyNewsFeeds

  279. Pingback: Pastor Robert Morris’ lawyer blamed a 12-year-old girl for initiating sexual contact – Fuerza 94.3 FM


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    Lyndsey:
    Thank God Cindy’s parents believed her immediately. I am so heartbroken for what she endured.

    I would like to from you there is no forgiveness in the house of God

  281. Pingback: Lawyer for megachurch pastor blamed 12-year-old for initiating ‘inappropriate’ sexual conduct - WeTekst News

  282. Pingback: Pastor Robert Morris’ lawyer blamed a 12-year-old girl for initiating sexual contact – NBC News – News Release

  283. Pingback: Lawyer for megachurch pastor blamed 12-year-old for initiating

  284. Pingback: Pastor Robert Morris’ lawyer blamed a 12-year-old girl for initiating sexual contact – INFO NEWS

  285. Pingback: Pastor Robert Morris’ lawyer blamed a 12-year-old girl for initiating sexual contact


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    Molly245: Thank you s Editor for this info.I haven’t seen this before and it’s helpful to have concrete examples of the kind of ‘tricks’ to watch out for.


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    I wonder if this commenter meant tricks by pedophiles?

  288. Pingback: Lawyer for megachurch pastor blamed 12-year-old for initiating ‘inappropriate’ sexual conduct - US NEWS

  289. Pingback: Lawyer for megachurch pastor blamed 12-year-old for initiating ‘inappropriate’ sexual conduct – newsonline

  290. Pingback: Lawyer for megachurch pastor blamed 12-year-old for initiating ‘inappropriate’ sexual conduct – Cyber Devil 24


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    Patty K,

    Gayle Fisk,

    You are both despicable for how you are going after this woman who was a victim at age 12. By all means stand up for the rich and powerful Morris, but despise the victim. If you’re Christians, I want nothing to do with your god.

  292. Pingback: Lawyer for megachurch pastor blamed 12-year-old for initiating ‘inappropriate’ sexual conduct - News 247

  293. Pingback: THE DEVIL IS A LIE! ROBERT MORRIS’ FORMER LAWYER SAID 12-YEAR-OLD CINDY CLEMISHIRE WAS TO BLAME FOR PASTOR MORRIS’ “INAPPROPRIATE” SEXUAL ABUSE – Black Christian News


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    Muff Potter,

    America has produced the most technology of any country in the world based on extreme hard work. I understand America bashing is fashionable at teatime in Europe, but then again this is what happens when you only work three days a week. Teatime is looooong.


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    Gus: America has produced the most technology of any country in the world based on extreme hard work. I understand America bashing is fashionable at teatime in Europe, but then again this is what happens when you only work three days a week. Teatime is looooong.

  296. Pingback: Lawyer for megachurch pastor Robert Morris blamed 12-year-old girl for their ‘inappropriate’ sexual contact – News Goon

  297. Pingback: Megachurch pastor Robert Morris' lawyer blamed 12-year-old for initiating ‘inappropriate’ sexual conduct - Newspointloop

  298. Pingback: Megachurch pastor Robert Morris' lawyer blamed 12-year-old for initiating ‘inappropriate’ sexual conduct - Narrative News


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    Gus,

    I agree. I’m sure she wouldn’t have expected her daughter to apologise for being sexually assaulted if it had been Elaine