{Update} America’s Got Talent. I’m Not So Sure About Mark Driscoll.

 

“There are two equal and opposite errors into which our race can fall about the devils. One is to disbelieve in their existence. The other is to believe and to feel an excessive and unhealthy interest in them. They themselves are equally pleased by both errors and hail a materialist and a magician with the same delight.” CS Lewis


Thanks to a kind reader, I realized I spelled Mr. Magala’s name as mandala. My apologies. I have corrected that spelling.


American’s Got Talent is one of my favorite shows. I enjoy being surprised by unusual talent. I smile at the lady on a unicycle balancing spinning plates on tall rods. I admire the groups that combine music and dancing while integrating pyrotechnics. I love the personal stories of the contestants and have enjoyed watching them go on to become celebrities, such as Teri Fator, an unparalleled ventriloquist.

Then, there are the requisite strong men performances. The Ramadhani Brothers were amazing.

There were all kinds of unexpected incredible talents. Some would never have occurred to me. I watched as Alex Magala performed his startling sword-swallowing act.

I have watched every AGT show, finding it to be a delightful diversion from my usual diet of talking heads and crime shows. I am amazed at a God who created so many people with spectacular aptitudes. However…I have never once mistaken AGT or similar shows as a church service or Christian conference. It is entertainment.

The Stronger Men’s Conference is simply a mini version of America’s Got Talent.

Here is the link to the coming 2025 Conference. Take a minute and look at the pictures on the front page:” football, motorcycles, bull riding, and a big old tank!  Then, there are pictures of a few speakers with no indication of their backgrounds or what they’ll teach. Just smiling faces amongst the tanks. This is not a conference. It is an entertainment show with a little Bible Lite thrown in to pretend it is spiritual. The mistake that the planners made is the assumption that this is a place where they will teach men “to be strong for the families.

They provided top-notch acts that are well-known outside of the “evangelical set.”  Neither Magala nor the Ramadhani Brothers did anything out of the ordinary. They performed their acts by removing their shirts due to the sweat that was produced. Magdala licked his sword since saliva aids in the sword insertion. There is a pole to demonstrate how he can climb and keep a sword in his throat without dying. The Ramadhani Brothers have used poles to add oomph to the act. This. Is. Normal.  Except  Mark Driscoll, once a darling of the new Calvinists, has ditched that act for a new one that involves demons, etc., hoping that’ll get the attention of the pew sitters.

In my opinion, this whole thing was one of the worst examples of a Christian gathering that I have ever seen. Those guys are entertainers. They were paid to do their act, and Driscoll, seeing an opportunity, decided to turn entertainment into a treatise for demon spirits. Old Marky has gone ARC  on us and hopes to sell us all on his “resurrection” from Mars Hill. Driscoll is a problem and should never be allowed a platform again, even one in a show like “Stronger Men” that revels in Bible Lite. I wonder just how much money this conference makes for the Lindell Brothers, or is it James River Church, an Assemblies of God church?

Magala spoke out about Driscoll’s apparent linkage of his act to the Jezebel spirit. Although the Ramadhani Brothers were present and shirtless, it appears Driscoll set his sites on Magala.

I wish Magala hadn’t said a word. He is an excellent performer and that is why he was hired.  Unfortunately, Christian Post wrote Alex Magala hits back at Mark Driscoll, says he’s Christian, sword performance was meant to inspire.

Magala used to perform in strip clubs, gay bars, etc. He claims to have become a Christian, but Driscoll fans are having a ball proving he isn’t their sort of Christian. This irritates the heck out of me. When I look back on my Christian life, I think of the early days and wish I had done things differently. But Jesus and the church stuck with me, and I have grown through the years. I cannot imagine how difficult it is for Magdalla, and I wish him well on his faith journey.

“Pastor Mark Driscoll’s remarks about my act failed to recognize the difference between a male strip tease and a stunt performance rooted in art and sport,” Magala said in a statement posted on his Instagram page Wednesday.

“Only an uninformed person would draw a comparison between my act and an inappropriate performance. I feel that this danger act is perfect for the Stronger Men’s Conference. It provides inspiration to the audience and permission for them to reach new heights of what’s possible in their lives.”

The real problem was a conference that didn’t have its roots in careful Christian teaching. It was a show, and Mark Driscoll took advantage of it. I think it was a setup to tout his new book. I also wonder if the Lindell brothers are egging him on. Exciting controversy means a good show, which means more proceeds are at the box office.

Jezebel and Mark Driscoll: a lovely combination of bad theology, hubris, and a book deal.

The Christian Post wrote Mark Driscoll slams Jezebel spirit after megachurch hosts sword swallower Alex Magala. I believe that Driscoll came to the conference to pump his book, which Amazon won’t sell but is. More on that shortly.

A viral video clip of Alex Magala’s sword-swallowing performance, which made him famous on family-friendly shows like “America’s Got Talent” and “Britain’s Got Talent,” followed by Driscoll’s response to it, has already sparked a wave of comments on social media and headlines in a variety of publications like USA Today, which Driscoll insisted on Monday misinterpreted what he means by the Jezebel spirit.

Merriam-Webster defines a jezebel as ‘an impudent, shameless, or morally unrestrained woman.’ It’s a derogatory word akin to ‘tramp,’ and, according to the Jim Crow Museum, has ties to racism and anti-black imagery,” USA Today reported.

It looks like the Calvinist thing wasn’t too exciting for him. With the help of folks like Robert Morris, he’s got a new gig, and people love to talk about demons. It sure beats focusing on my Christian walk with Jesus. Jezebel is far more exciting.

“The Jezebel spirit is not a synonym for ‘tramp,’ and it’s got nothing to do with racism. The Jezebel spirit is a demon that has worked through men and women for centuries, from Queen Jezebel in 1st Kings to Jesus’s rebuke of the church in Thyatira in Revelation 2,” he wrote on X. “This demon seeks to control and dominate, most often through seductive women but oftentimes through overbearing, domineering men. I literally wrote the book on this. I want to give it away absolutely free. I get nothing out of it, I just want men and women to learn more about the spiritual war behind the war we see.”

Here’s the creepy thing he said that caused the dust to rise. I still believe it was a set-up to discuss his new book.

We’re going to talk about how to be an Elijah and how to deal with the average Jezebel. But let me do this,” Driscoll said, kneeling in a video of his critique of Magala’s performance at the conference posted on X.

“I’ve been up since 1 in the morning. The reason I’m hoarse is I’ve been praying for you, and my heart is very burdened for you. I want to be very careful with this, and it’s not what I want to say, but the Jezebel spirit has already been here. The Jezebel spirit opened our event. This is a rebuke and a correction of no one; this is an observation,” he explained.

“Before the word of God was open, there was a platform. It was a high place. On it was a pole, an Asherah. The same thing that’s used in a strip club for women who have the Jezebel spirit to seduce men. In front of that was a man who ripped his shirt off, like a woman does in front of a pole at a strip club,” he continued.

Driscoll’s book on demons that Amazon wouldn’t sell?

I love Amazon. I have multiple Kindles and buy lots of books. ChurchLeaders posted Mark Driscoll Claims New Book Was Banned From Amazon for ‘Offensive Content’

NEW DAYS, OLD DEMONS got me suspended from Amazon for ‘offensive content,’ yet these vile products are alive and well on the platform,” Driscoll tweeted on Sunday (July 2) alongside images of a “Transgender Affirmation” coloring book for children and other pornographically-themed material.

Driscoll added, “Like in the days of Elijah, they are trying to silence the word of God and faithful Bible teachers. New days, old demons, like I state in the book.”

“‘New Days, Old Demons’ is a prophetic study of sex, gender, woke politics, and how progressive Christianity is just a rebranding of ancient paganism,” the book’s description reads. “The same demons that were active in the days of Elijah are active today castrating the men, mutilating the children, closing the churches, and silencing the Bible teachers.”

…In promoting that series, Driscoll said it was “the most controversial, the most timely, the most prophetic sermon series I’ve ever done in my entire life.” He later added that the most pressing issue in the church today is “apostasy—we can call it wokeness—the worship of God being commingled with gender confusion and transgenderism and sexuality.”

Except Amazon does sell it. 

James River Church is threatening to cut ties with Driscoll. You won’t believe, or maybe you will, what Driscoll is alleged have to done now.

I wish this were a “come to Jesus” moment, but it’s not. John Lindell is miffed at Driscoll. Never, ever diss a brother who is paying you in front of his paying audience.  The Springfield News leaders posted James River Church threatens to cut ties with the controversial pastor if he ‘will not repent.’

James River Church pastor John Lindell threatened to cut ties with preacher Mark Driscoll if he “will not repent” for his actions following the Stronger Men’s Conference this past weekend.

He discussed it in Wednesday night’s prayer service.

…Lindell called Driscoll off the stage, but the two came together for a public discussion later on. Social media followers called the public discussion a reconciliation, something that Lindell refuted in his Wednesday evening prayer service, saying that Driscoll did not apologize for his actions.

You have to read these allegations by Pastor John Lindell. His two sons run the conference.

John Lindell also said that during phone calls with David Lindell, Driscoll accused his other son, Brandon Lindell, who also is a pastor at James River, “of a list of dark sins” and said “something evil was at work” at James River Church.

John Lindell said during the service that the church received so many violent threats and disturbing calls that they had to shut down their switchboard “for the first time ever.”

Driscoll is accused of being demonic and trying to cause friction between the Lindell brothers!

What Mark had done at this point was so egregious: Attempting to tear down the leader of the church, attempting to create friction between brothers, attempting to create discord between father and a son,” John Lindell said. “It seems demonic to me and honestly makes me very very concerned about Mark.”

According to The Roys Report in John Lindell Urges Mark Driscoll to ‘Repent’ for ‘Trying to Destroy’ His Church:

Now Lindell recounted a phone call that Driscoll had with David Lindell. According to the elder Lindell’s account, Driscoll said, “There is something evil at work in the church. There is a mixture of the sinful and the sacred.”

Driscoll allegedly urged David to “differentiate” from his brother, Brandon, whom Driscoll called “a broken man” and added, “Something is wrong with him,” according to John Lindell’s account.

The Roys Report confirmed that John Lindell, along with Robert Morris, supported Driscoll after the Mars Hill implosion. So he’s the one who helped set him up in Scottsdale and got him platformed!

He also confirmed past reporting by TRR regarding how Gateway Church Senior Pastor Robert Morris and marriage author Jimmy Evans have played in Driscoll’s comeback. Lindell described the two pastors as “spiritual overseers” who helped Driscoll and his wife “reestablish their ministry in Arizona, through the planting of Trinity Church.”

Final thoughts:

  • The conference was a bunch of boys looking at Monster trucks and somehow learning to be good Christian men. I think it will fail in the sanctification department.
  • I wonder how Driscoll feels about the dress code of sumo wrestlers.
  • The entertainers performed their shows, just like they did at AGT. Driscoll’s criticism made him appear ill-informed about how these acts work.
  • I believe Driscoll was looking for an opportunity to push his book.
  • I believe a lot of this stuff about Asherah poles and demon spirits is bad theology.
  • I wonder how long it took for Driscoll to give up Calvinism.
  • Did Driscoll really believe in Calvinism, or did it appeal to his “I’m the authority” here manliness?
  • Driscoll says he wrote “the” book on demons, so he appears to be the new expert on the matter. His theological development has been weak, in my opinion.
  • Church and parachurch groups are quickly becoming entertainment venues, and then people get upset when they encounter real entertainers.
  • Driscoll is beginning to sound unhinged to me.
  • Lindell platformed him and bears the responsibility for his error in judgment.
  • As for Asherah poles, take a look at this incredible pole dancer at AGT. It is not what you think. Mark-it’s called entertainment!

Comments

{Update} America’s Got Talent. I’m Not So Sure About Mark Driscoll. — 126 Comments


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    First!

    This whole thing reminds me of a saying we had at a former place of employment.

    Not my circus. Not my monkeys.


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    This is what passes for spiritual leadership….. sadly. I would like to give them the benefit of the doubt and say that they have “left their first love”, but I just don’t know. There have always been imposters and Paul warned us about them. There is nothing new under the sun.


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    So Lindell supported Driscoll after all the gross sins he committed during the Mars Hill years and never sincerely repented of… But is now concerned about Driscoll and calling him to repent when his antics directly impact Lindell’s show, church, and family?? Is this a joke? The whole thing deeply disgusts me.

    And yes, when I read the initial article a few days ago, I turned to my wife and told her how Driscoll tried to use the event to plug his book. It’s very obvious.


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    The Jezebel “spirit” of Scripture manifested itself through manipulation, intimidation, and domination. Isn’t that what Driscoll has done his entire ministry?


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    Driscoll began his ministry in the emergent church movement with other crazies like Rob Bell and Brian McLaren … he then joined the resurgent group of New Calvinists … to later become submergent when they booted him from Mars Hill. He resurfaced as a Charismatic Calvinist in Phoenix. He’s always reinventing himself.


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    Max,

    I was thinking the same thing!
    Anywhere Mark Driscoll is, there is a Jezebel spirit.

    Concerning Driscoll ranting about the sword swallower…. Ha! I think Driscoll may just be jealous!
    He does not have, nor has he ever had, the talent … or the physique! Driscoll may have been pushing his book, but I think he was trying to upstage Magdala. How is a conceited blowhard like Driscoll supposed to follow an act like that??? (With a humble heart? NOT.)
    Hmmmmm, maybe Driscoll should have just asked Chuck Norris if he could pretty-please-with-sugar-on-top JUST SIT INSIDE the tank and pretend he’s driving it for a minute.


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    Nancy2(aka Kevlar),

    Unfortunately, both of you are probably correct.. This is one of the benifts of what we get for “freedom of religion”…. sigh..


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    You know, I don’t *care* that Mark Driscoll doesn’t believe the “Jezebel spirit” has its roots in good old American racism. Because it DOES.

    https://jimcrowmuseum.ferris.edu/jezebel/index.htm

    Plus the mentions of Jezebel in the Bible are to (a) the wife of King Ahab in the Old Testament or (b) a woman described as a false prophetess in Revelation 2:20. At no time is a “Jezebel spirit” mentioned; this is something that was made up to go after women who may have crossed church men. And it likely has its roots in Southern racism towards Black women–but hey, this is a suggestion for someone’s future Master’s thesis tracing it through.

    I think Driscoll is apparently making bank on this whole business, which is why he’s pursuing it. It kind of reminds me of when he and James MacDonald went to John MacArthur’s anti-Pentecostal conference and passed out copies of a book. But I am INFURIATED that Driscoll attacked a guy who was just doing his job (the acrobatic sword swallower). Now others are attacking that guy and saying he’s not a Christian.

    Oh yeah, I don’t know why churches have to have these Man Cave or Tea Party conferences for men or women. *waves hands* I just don’t get it.


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    Max: He resurfaced as a Charismatic Calvinist in Phoenix. He’s always reinventing himself.

    He’s a chameleon, do doubt about it.
    And it’s not just Driscoll.
    There’s a whole slew of guys just like him whose real game is to part you (generic you) from your greenbacks.


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    Driscoll is beginning to sound unhinged to me.

    I don’t think he was ever “hinged”, if you know what I mean. Attention, adulation and things he made up to serve his needs of the moment have always been more important to him than any form of truth he would have a hard time recognizing.


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    Muslin fka Dee Holmes,

    Your right about the “Jezebel spirit”! That crossed my mind at one point but then slipped my mind. Thanks for the reminder!

    I think that your statement combined with Driscoll’s heresy gives me leeway to alter my previous statement and say that “anywhere Mark Driscoll is, there is a Nabal spirit”.
    Nabal means “fool” in Hebrew. Ha!


  12. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    Here is a brief definition and timeline of usage of the phrase from the revised Oxford English Dictionary-
    “ An immoral, impudent, or sexually promiscuous woman; (esp. in earlier use) a woman who leads other people into idolatry and sin (see Revelation 2:20); a prostitute or disreputable woman, esp. one who wears cosmetics, fine clothes, etc. Also figurative.
    Often modified by painted.

    In quot. 1558 the word refers back to ‘our mischeuous Maryes’: see etymological note.
    1558 He hath raised vp these Iesabelles to be the vttermoste of his plagues.
    J. Knox, First Blast of against Monstruous Regiment of Women f. 41vCitation details for J. Knox, First Blast of against Monstruous Regiment of Women

    1644 Whoever is on Gods side, let him downe with that Jezebel of Rome, downe with her Idolatries and superstitions, [etc.].
    J. Leech, St Pauls Challenge 22Citation details for J. Leech, St Pauls Challenge

    1711A Jezebel..appears constantly dress’d at her Sash, and has a thousand little Tricks and Fooleries to attract the Eyes of all the idle young Fellows.
    E. Budgell, Spectator No. 175. ⁋2Citation details for E. Budgell, Spectator

    1797 Letting a tribe of shabroons and painted jezebels into their honest house.
    A. M. Bennett, Beggar Girl vol. I. ii. 34Citation details for A. M. Bennett, Beggar Girl

    1891 Oh! you abandoned Jezebel!
    S. Mostyn, Curatica 113Citation details for S. Mostyn, Curatica

    1948 Down on Commercial Street..bright-eyed Jezebels lurked on balconies, holding their sheer kimonos loosely about them and calling to men below in a dozen tongues.
    L. Wendt & H. Kogan, Bet a Million! iii. 39Citation details for L. Wendt & H. Kogan, Bet a Million!

    2003 They detected a Jezebel spirit in any woman who dared to open her mouth and express an opinion.
    M. Ford, Mem. Misfit xix. 125Citation details for M. Ford, Mem. Misfit

    2018 We are left to imagine the terms under which a black woman would be auctioned, likely as a docile Mammy, fiery Sapphire, or sexualized Jezebel.
    Slate Magazine (Nexis) 18 July”

    The last two are particularly indicative of (male) attitudes.


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    “Driscoll is beginning to sound unhinged to me.”

    “Beginning to”?


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    “images of a “Transgender Affirmation” coloring book for children and other pornographically-themed material.”

    Wait, what? “Other pornographically themed material?” Since when is acknowledging trans people pornographic? I’m not sure if the writer of the linked post is saying this or if Driscoll said it and they just didn’t attribute it clearly.

    If it was Driscoll, unsurprising, since the most pornographically themed thing in his vicinity is probably inside his skull. His self-owning comments sexualizing an acrobatic performer show that. Frankly, I’d rather buy a case of those coloring books than anything Driscoll (‘s ghostwriter) wrote.


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    For James River Church to close would be a blessing to the community. IMHO that is.


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    I wonder whether it might be prudent, from the standpoint of God’s view of the matter, to stop displaying the national flag from the tops of poles.

    OTOH, perhaps the pole could be interpreted as a form of celebration of America masculinity.


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    In Dee’s post, John Lindell says, in reference to Driscoll: “It seems demonic to me ……”.

    Well, in this instance, I can’t help but agree with Lindell. Methinks Driscoll was projecting.
    Given Driscoll’s history and reputation, maybe he’s the one with the “Jezebel spirit”.


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    Samuel Conner: might be prudent, from the standpoint of God’s view of the matter, to stop displaying the national flag from the tops of poles

    Bahahaha or crosses on top of steeples.


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    CMT,

    I’ve read it claimed that historic incorporation of religious language into public life in US should be thought of as “ceremonial Deism”.

    Maybe our material displays (the Washington Monument also comes to mind) shoudl be thought of as “ceremonial Asherahism”. Our Founders were hard men.


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    You have to read these allegations by Pastor John Lindell. His two sons run the conference.

    Keeping it all in the family, like the Spanish Hapsburgs and the Kims of North Korea?

    The conference was a bunch of boys looking at Monster trucks and somehow learning to be good Christian men. I think it will fail in the sanctification department.

    Perpetual man-children going “ME MAN! RAWR!”
    Their Holy Testoserone surging as if they were at a Nuremberg Rally.
    “ME MAN! ME TOUGH! RAWR!!!!”

    believe a lot of this stuff about Asherah poles and demon spirits is bad theology.

    Street Cred for the Spiritual Warfare/Witchfinders-General set.

    Driscoll says he wrote “the” book on demons, so he appears to be the new expert on the matter.

    All that means is he’s NEVER run into one For Real.
    Tip from someone who has, 44 years ago: It’s NOT going to follow the Christianese Script.
    At all.

    Church and parachurch groups are quickly becoming entertainment venues, and then people get upset when they encounter real entertainers.

    They’ve been exposed to the Christian Counterfeit so long, they cannot recognize the real thing.
    At all.

    Driscoll is beginning to sound unhinged to me.

    He’s been heading down that road for a long time.
    So far down he can’t backtrack and find the turnoff even if he wanted to.

    P.S. That tank in the Conference ads doing “HULK SMASH!” on the cars at a Monster Truck rally is a British Centurion. One of the early Marks with the 17- or 20-pounder gun.


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    Samuel Conner: OTOH, perhaps the pole could be interpreted as a form of celebration of America masculinity.

    “MINE’S BIGGER THAN YOURS!!!!!”
    (Unzip and Whip it out)


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    CMT: If it was Driscoll, unsurprising, since the most pornographically themed thing in his vicinity is probably inside his skull.

    “I SEE Things…”

    His self-owning comments sexualizing an acrobatic performer show that.

    Once again, an unwanted peek into the ManaGAWD’s Sexual Appetites and Kinks.


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    As for Asherah poles, take a look at this incredible pole dancer at AGT. It is not what you think. Mark-it’s called entertainment!

    NOT IF YOU HAVE A REALLLY DIRTY MIND!
    If you have a mind as Dirty as Dee Tee Driscoll’s track record, even paint drying on a wall would be Disgustingly Pornographic.


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    Tom Rubino: And yes, when I read the initial article a few days ago, I turned to my wife and told her how Driscoll tried to use the event to plug his book. It’s very obvious.

    As obvious as Michael Jackson’s father using his own son’s funeral to plug his personal record label.


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    Nancy2(aka Kevlar): I think that your statement combined with Driscoll’s heresy gives me leeway to alter my previous statement and say that “anywhere Mark Driscoll is, there is a Nabal spirit”.
    Nabal means “fool” in Hebrew. Ha!

    Deep Throat Driscoll does not have a Jezebel OR Nabal Spirit.
    More like an ASHERAH Spirit.

    “Asherah” being the Jewish name for the main SEX Goddess of all the Middle-Eastern Fertility Cults that surrounded the ancient Jews. And as happened under Queen Jezebel herself, often infiltrated and influenced the Jews’ de facto folk religion.


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    CMT: If it was Driscoll, unsurprising, since the most pornographically themed thing in his vicinity is probably inside his skull. His self-owning comments sexualizing an acrobatic performer show that. Frankly, I’d rather buy a case of those coloring books than anything Driscoll (‘s ghostwriter) wrote.

    We, here at Ye Ol’ TWW have known for sometime that there is something wrong with Driscoll. Back when I was blogging more than now, I went through one of his Peasant Princess series sermons. And one of the things I pointed out (as did so many other including TWW) was how, when it came to the Song of Solomon, Driscoll could find graphic sex under every single rock and tree mentioned.

    He hasn’t changed. It was easy for Driscoll to find all that sex in The Songs, because, well, it is about sex, among other things. And it was easily received by the men in the church because it gave them license to demand whatever kind of sex from their wives that their favorite porn sites were showing. After all, in those days, Piper talked about how he loved Driscoll’s theology.

    One verse as an example of Driscoll’s incessant drive to rape and pornify the Songs was Songs 6:11b “Why should you look at the Shulammite,
    As at the dance of the two armies (Mahanaim)?

    Driscoll taught that this was about women doing strip teases and said it was okay to have a stripper pole in the bedroom. So basically, back then, he was all FOR Asherah poles, as long as it was in the marriage bedroom.

    So Driscoll can’t help himself. When he sees a pole as an entertainment prop, his brain goes directly to strippers pole dancing. And I wouldn’t be surprised if, when he saw that performer licking and swallowing that sword, he could picture his wife obeying the command that Driscoll gave in Scotland. That command that Driscoll said was from Jesus, Himself.

    Below is a link to a post written back in 2009 about another Songs verse that Driscoll manipulated to make it say what he wanted it to say rather than what was actually being said. It’s not as scandalous as his interpretation of Songs 2:3 and 6:11. But it is a good example of how he manipulates scripture for personal benefit.

    https://frombitterwaterstosweet.blogspot.com/2009/07/manipulating-scripture-for-personal.html

    Yes, Driscoll is completely pornified.

    Fun fact. The original Greek work that we get Pornography from is the same Greek word we get fornication. Take that as you will.


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    Mara R: Fun fact. The original Greek work that we get Pornography from is the same Greek word we get fornication. Take that as you will.

    So, in our day, Paul would be writing that since there is so much MD-style preaching, every man should have his own wife?


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    Mara R: Yes, Driscoll is completely pornified.

    Probably more so than all Furry Fandom.

    Fun fact. The original Greek work that we get Pornography from is the same Greek word we get fornication.

    The original Greek word “Pornographia” literally translates as “Prostitute Writings” and had the original meaning of “Whorehouse Advertisements”.

    P.S. I still maintain that the word “Fornication” is now ONLY found in Christianese.
    Outside the Bubble, it has no meaning.


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    CMT: “images of a “Transgender Affirmation” coloring book for children and other pornographically-themed material.”

    More proof that the Wokies are as detached from reality as the Christians at the Stronger Man’s Conference.
    Or never mind The Matrix, we’re all living in one long episode of South Park.
    Or both.


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    Muff Potter: He’s a chameleon, do doubt about it.

    “Karma Karma Karma Karma Chmeleon,
    It comes and goes,
    It comes and goes…”


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    Forgive me…my eyes must be tired. When I first read the post, I saw “Stronger Men conference” and read, “STRANGER MEN Conference”.


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    Obviously, Mark Driscoll has a lot of talent. He is a talented actor who has deceived the church for years. From potty-mouth preacher to Jezebel-chasing prophet, he has made a ministry out of entertaining gullible followers.


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    Headless Unicorn Guy: P.S. I still maintain that the word “Fornication” is now ONLY found in Christianese.
    Outside the Bubble, it has no meaning.

    In fundagelical circles, un-authorized sex is the worst thing there is.


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    The Assembly of God denomination ought to rebuke John Lindell for restoring Driscoll to ministry and giving him a platform. But, I doubt they will touch Lindell; I suspect his James River Church contributes mega-bucks to the denomination.


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    Mara R,

    Correction: “His self-owning comments sexualizing an acrobatic performer are only the latest of countless examples of his pornographic mindset.”

    Lots of folks, you included, Mara, were sounding the alarm about MD before it was cool (2009!) 15-odd years later, the fact that he’s still blathering is hardly newsworthy. The surprise is that even after years of widespread, thoughtful critique and the very public implosion of his Mars Hill brand, MD found his way back to a pulpit. He was even invited to speak at a vanilla seeming megachurch. How?? Why??

    *cue reply from Max* 😉 Not that “American churches are spiritually immature entertainment venues” is untrue, necessarily. I’m more curious about the psychology of it.


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    CMT:
    “images of a “Transgender Affirmation” coloring book for children and other pornographically-themed material.”

    Wait, what? “Other pornographically themed material?” Since when is acknowledging trans people pornographic? I’m not sure if the writer of the linked post is saying this or if Driscoll said it and they just didn’t attribute it clearly.

    Trans person here, unfortunately a lot of people who claim to advocate for us (and in many cases are not trans) make this equivalency (i.e. trans = kink = sex/porn). Sadly this makes it more difficult to have reasonable conversations with fellow Christians who are looking for sex under every rock, as it reinforces their preconceptions.


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    Max,

    Yup


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    CMT: MD found his way back to a pulpit … How?? Why??

    Christians are to forgive the truly repentant. But that doesn’t mean that fallen leaders who are forgiven should be restored to the pulpit. IMO, Driscoll permanently disqualified himself from the sacred office of pastor when he was at Mars Hill. Does anyone remember Driscoll publicly confessing and repenting of his potty-mouth preaching, bullying staff, plagiarism, mismanagement of church funds, and other assorted transgressions?


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    ,

    I don’t know if any of you remember a book titled “The Total Woman” that came out in the 70s. Women were supposed to receive their husbands scantily clad at the door, with a good hot meal waiting for them. It made a small, funny splash. That’s what I think this latest dust-up with Driscoll will do. He’s just laughable.


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    Samuel Conner: Maybe our material displays (the Washington Monument also comes to mind) shoudl be thought of as “ceremonial Asherahism”. Our Founders were hard men.

    I think it (the Washington Monument) had mpre to do with the embodiment of geometric perfection from the likes of say Euclid and Archimedes. Those guys (our Founders) were well versed from the Greek thinkers of old.


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    Muff Potter: had mpre to do

    Should be ‘had more to do’


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    Muff Potter,

    Just trying to “see” things from the point of view of the subject of the OP — does it make sense in wider application?

    Also, the subject of the OP has shown that provocative preaching can be an effective “business” model to “grow” a church. Perhaps provocative commenting can work to “grow” a ‘blog, too (or maybe not — channeling the OP subject again, everyone deserves to be banned from comments; everything else is grace). Of course, it’s all for the glory of God.


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    Just watched the AGT clip now.

    That is indeed impressive.

    That guy can really throw his voice!

    But can he throw theological tantrums?


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    Linn: Driscoll … He’s just laughable

    Anybody who ever thought Driscoll was a real deal man of God is out of their spiritual mind.


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    Mara R: Piper talked about how he loved Driscoll’s theology

    It should be clear by now that an endorsement from Piper doesn’t mean squat.


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    Max: doesn’t mean squat.

    I’ve read (seriously, not joking) that Martin Luther did useful theological reflection while squatting (evidently constipation was an issue, so there was time for reflection), so “doesn’t mean squat” might not be as profound a deprecation as it superficially appears to be.

    In the past, constipation has been an issue for me, so I’m unusually alert to stories like this, and the stories have stuck we me even as the GI issues have resolved (brown rice and beans is both nutritious and helpful, though there are potential adverse side effects; these can be partially resolved by soaking and pressure-cooking the beans).

    That was probably TMI.


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    Samuel Conner,

    Well, Driscoll never ‘moved’ me …


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    Watching the man who performed with the sword and the pole DID seem creepy to me, and overtly homoerotic. A quick google of his history, background, and a quick dive into videos of his recent actions, and no church in their collective right mind would hire this dude to park cars.

    I loathe Driscoll and his mouth and his teachings. But he was spot on to call the filth out.

    What I ask is why did Driscoll have to do the call out? Why didn’t Lindell immediately stop the performance?

    Even bigger question, why did those “godly men” in the audience not storm out of James River never to return??


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    Max,

    Any expulsions from the other end of the alimentary canal?


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    Muff Potter: There’s a whole slew of guys just like him whose real game is to part you (generic you) from your greenbacks.

    And if you fall for it, you deserve each other…


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    Samuel Conner,

    I always tune Driscoll out before it gets to that point


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    The only thing scarier than Driscoll are the folks that follow him. I continue to be amazed at who and what American churchgoers idolize. We’ve entered a spiritual era that is of another spirit … another gospel that is not ‘the’ Gospel. It’s truly an amazing phenomenon.


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    Max,

    Yup…
    Some of the cause of the “sheeple” is growing up in mt fubdy background, independent thinking was discouraged..


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    Jeffrey Chalmers: independent thinking was discouraged..

    Group think is taking American churchgoers into the great unknown. Critical thinking skills, a working knowledge of the Bible, and Holy Spirit inspiration are hard to be found in the 21st century church.


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    linda: Watching the man who performed with the sword and the pole DID seem creepy to me, and overtly homoerotic. A quick google of his history, background, and a quick dive into videos of his recent actions, and no church in their collective right mind would hire this dude to park cars.

    I loathe Driscoll and his mouth and his teachings. But he was spot on to call the filth out.

    What I ask is why did Driscoll have to do the call out? Why didn’t Lindell immediately stop the performance?

    Even bigger question, why did those “godly men” in the audience not storm out of James River never to return??

    Linda, I’ve been trying to stay out of this, but each point you’ve made is essentially what I’ve been thinking. Homoerotic art describes it best, and the sword swallower would have made a good model for Robert Mapplethorpe’s black and whites.

    This reminds me of that evangelist/boys’school headmaster who got busy polishing a stainless steel rod in front of school assembly. I forget his name, but HUG will know.


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    linda: Why didn’t Lindell immediately stop the performance? … why did those “godly men” in the audience not storm out of James River never to return??

    Lindell obviously had no problem with it. This is a corner of the American church where anything goes in Jesus’ name. Lindell commented on Facebook after the event “We had a ton of fun!” Those “godly men” will probably be back next year for more of the same. The fun never stops at James River!

    Surely, there were some godly men who were offended by this ungodly display of flesh and vacated the premises … maybe … hopefully. But would a godly man have signed up in the first place? Did they know what was on the schedule beforehand?

    As someone noted upstream, “Stranger Men” would have been more appropriate than “Stronger Men.” Reckon what James River will serve up next year?! I can see the marquee now “Mark Driscoll Returns!” That would draw an even bigger crowd!

    God help us …


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    “Despite their public, heated exchange at the conference, Driscoll and Lindell appeared to reconcile. The two men appeared together later in the conference. Driscoll called Lindell his “spiritual father” and Lindell likened Driscoll to John the Baptist.

    Driscoll also seemed to walk back the importance of the issue, saying, “The things that matter, we agree on.””

    https://julieroys.com/stronger-mens-conference-sword-swallower-defends-performance-cites-christian-faith/

    Good Lord! “John the Baptist” Driscoll?!! Lindell a “spiritual father”?!!

    “We agree” … would Jesus agree with either one of them?!!

    Madness!!


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    Wife: “Did you enjoy the church conference honey?”

    Husband: “It was a ton of fun!”

    W: “Great! What did they do there?”

    H: “Well, there was this half-naked sword swallower slithering on a pole”

    W: “Uhhh … OK … anything else?”

    H: “The featured speaker was the famous ‘Potty-Mouth Preacher'”

    W: “Interesting … anything else?”

    H: “Monster trucks, motorcycles, bull-riding, tanks”

    W: “Please continue”

    H: “Well, after the half-naked sword-swallower’s performance, the featured speaker said a demonic spirit had taken over the meeting and the Pastor yelled at him for saying that! But, by the time the conference was over, they were getting along OK. It was great! I’m going back next year!”

    W: “No, you’re not! I think you are strong enough.”


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    Max: W: “Interesting … anything else?”

    H: “Monster trucks, motorcycles, bull-riding, tanks”

    W: “Please continue”

    H: “Well, after the half-naked sword-swallower’s performance, the featured speaker said a demonic spirit had taken over the meeting and the Pastor yelled at him for saying that! But, by the time the conference was over, they were getting along OK. It was great! I’m going back next year!”

    W: “No, you’re not! I think you are strong enough.”

    H: “But can I at least go to the Military Supply with the other guys from First Baptist, and shoot each other dead with paintball guns? We get to wear camo!”

    I missed out on that one, deliberately. Sheesh.


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    Max: H: “Monster trucks, motorcycles, bull-riding, tanks”

    W: “Please continue”

    H: “Well, after the half-naked sword-swallower’s performance,

    OTOH, there’s Jesus, the perfect male role model. Healing the lame, curing the sick, casting out demons, raising the dead, calling out the wicked hypocrites … but neither magic tricks nor monster trucks nor macho wrestlers. Jesus was/is God Himself, plain and simple.


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    Believer:
    Forgive me…my eyes must be tired. When I first read the post, I saw “Stronger Men conference” and read, “STRANGER MEN Conference”.

    In the words of the Prophet James Morrison:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0Mz_IqpZX8
    (Imagine hearing that for the first time in a darkened video arcade in Pasadena circa 1980, with all the rest screens of the video game cabinets pulsing in time…)


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    Headless Unicorn Guy,

    I’m an old DOORS fan from way back…


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    Max: Reckon what James River will serve up next year?! I can see the marquee now “Mark Driscoll Returns!” That would draw an even bigger crowd!

    God help us …

    As long as it’s not Driscoll taking his clothes off…

    That would be NSFW or home, for sure 😉


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    Alexandra A,

    Ok it took me a bit to parse this because I hadn’t heard these things lumped together by people who were trying to be supportive. I think you’re saying that pro-trans arguments by nonreligious people sometimes inaccurately equate trans identities with kink. Then some Christians hear this, and in their minds kink=porn=bad. So that ends up reinforcing their negative stereotypes. Is that it?

    “this makes it more difficult to have reasonable conversations with fellow Christians”

    Oof. Is this the understatement of the century?? Are those conversations even possible at that point?


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    Ava Aaronson: Jesus was/is God Himself, plain and simple.

    Evidently, preaching Jesus of the Bible – the living Christ – is not enough to draw a crowd for some churches. They have to resort to gimmicks and bring Him down to their level.


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    Ted,

    Ted, you should have gone! I bet they gave out “Paintballs for Jesus” t-shirts!


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    Ted: Homoerotic art describes it best, and the sword swallower would have made a good model for Robert Mapplethorpe’s black and whites.

    that if this is the dress and act that has been acceptable for sword swallowers. In other words, a tradition. Are Sumo wrestlers guilty of the same thing? What about male swimmers in Speedos? Women who run in tight shorts and sports bras?
    I think it might be in the eyes of the beholder and that person’s comfort level in general. Linda was unhappy when I discussed the statue of David I was visiting at the time of the controversy. As medical folks, we found the details of the statue breathtaking. Some people would say, “Put on clothes.”

    I saw sword swallowers as a little kid. They all licked their swords for the extra protection of the salvia. They wore skin-tight clothes, etc.


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    dee: I think it might be in the eyes of the beholder and that person’s comfort level in general. Linda was unhappy when I discussed the statue of David I was visiting at the time of the controversy. As medical folks, we found the details of the statue breathtaking. Some people would say, “Put on clothes.”

    It really is in the eye of the beholder. Some folks get ‘offended’ at the drop of a hat, and will always find something to kvetch about. Okay, yeah, so what? What ‘offends’ me is when they demand that the rest of us accommodate them, and that we all hafta’ walk on eggs.


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    If you know you know. Some find my views on the prudish side. Let me explain something: I lived over a decade in what was at that time the sex change capitol of the USA. I had friends and neighbors who were gay, lesbian, transsexual, transgender, asexual, and even a chimeric, although medically those are rare.

    It may surprise some to know those people taught me that we cannot lump them together as “those people.” Some are surprisingly conservative Christians caught up in a medical dilemma. Others are flagrantly out to break every rule that, as THEY put it, “God made.” There is no one LBGTQ+ mindset out there. Most are somewhere in between, either mentally confused, morally conflicted, or medically afflicted but to a lesser degree. All of them are humans created in God’s image, and like those of us non LBGTQ+ deserving to be treated with human kindness and dignity. And like the rest of us, not all of their actions are acceptable.

    But after that time living among them, over coffee on Sundays and during the work week, I did learn there is a subculture there that delights in mocking decency while convincing “want to be kind” Christians that filth is in the eye of the beholder. It is not. Filth is filth no matter how we present it: as filth, or as just “elevated artistic taste.” That last one is what get mocked.

    As a Christian, I appreciate the beauty of the human body. And no, I do not think it needs to be on display in any and all settings. Michaelangelo’s David is fantastic in the artistic ability—-and would be so with more clothing, or if shown as is but in restricted audiences. It need not, no should not, be something every 4 year old going downtown must walk past. Time and place for it. Downtown street is not it.

    As a Christian woman I don’t attend sumo wrestling because of the level of undress (and local good ole boys don’t sumo wrestle anyway.) I would not attend Olympic swimming and diving with the guys in the speedos. And I loathe the way women figure skaters are often made to wear clothing that while covering everything uses fabric color to make you think you see more than you do. As a woman, I stand with those women athletes objecting to some famous brand and teams making women wear skimpy clothing that adds nothing to performance.

    Real elevated taste in the arts does not need to titillate to be artistic, and still knows how to blush.

    And my friends S. and K. from back in that town would have probably broken my ribs poking me if that performance had been done in our church. As they would, as members of LBGTQ+ community have told me, “Man he is puttin’ one over here today. Every time something like this happen, the line between right and wrong blurs and moves over a little bit more.”

    Do your own google search of the supposedly born again performer’s recent actions. And understand why some of us would rather wade through horse spit chin deep than walk into James River Church.


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    Is the misspelling of Alex Magala’s name throughout the article on purpose?


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    dee,

    Just to add to the list: competitive ice skaters, gymnasts, and acrobats…
    Is there a Jezebel spirit in sports? I mean, just look at those tight skimpy clothes the athletes wear!
    Simone Biles’s outfit…… Peggy Fleming’s short skirt flapping up over her back….. Sergei Grinkov’s and Brian Boitano’s skintight pants…. the outfits those acrobats wear….. Oh My!
    And then there’s the unnatural positions and poses they twist their bodies into…


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    Muff Potter,

    My ‘go-to’: if you don’t like it, nobody’s forcin’ ya to stay.

    Story I told on TWW some years ago:
    My daughter worked VBS as a teacher’s aid with 4 and 5 year olds. Teacher was a typical Bertha-better-than-you. I was bringing my class outside as they were rounding up theirs to go back inside, so I saw and heard it all. My daughter was about 13 at the time, around 1997 or ‘98…… Not a man in sight…..

    A little boy had climbed a tree and refused to come down. Well, my daughter is no fool – she had a pair of shorts on underneath her skirt. So, she shinnied up the tree and brought the kid down.
    Teacher saw those shorts and started railing at my daughter for wearing pants to church …… I’m ashamed of you, only Jezebels wear pants to church, don’t you dare do it again, I expect you to dress and act like a lady……
    My daughter comes back with, “Fine. Next time, you get the brat down,” and spins around walks inside with the kids.


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    Nancy2(aka Kevlar),

    I think I know who the “Jezebel” was in this story.


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    Nancy2(aka Kevlar),

    dee,

    Add to this the fact that God created the human body and claimed it was good. Supposedly, that body only became an issue after sin. I think much of the human race has unhealthy views with the human body; and it runs in both directions, too timid about it and too exhibitionistic (word?)


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    dee,

    This is what i was thinking too. Showing one’s skin or body shape is not inherently erotic. Folks usually don’t say this about male MMA fighters (even though they are taking off their shirts to roll around on the ground with other dudes, sooo…)

    I agree I don’t see why a carnival act is at a church men’s conference. Not because there’s necessarily anything wrong with the act per se, it just seems out of place. But so do wrestling and guns and a lot of the other things used to draw guys to these events (and dollars to the organizers).


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    a demon husband?

    sounds like


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    Nancy2(aka Kevlar),

    Same here. If yer’ that delicate a daisy, go find another blog.


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    Muff Potter: It really is in the eye of the beholder. Some folks get ‘offended’ at the drop of a hat, and will always find something to kvetch about.

    Church Lady types are notorious for seeking out and attending/reading/listening to/viewing things just so they CAN get into a Righteous Snit about it and Virtue-Signal for GAWD.

    It’s one of the reasons why any sort of Christian(TM) endeavor in the Arts is so shoddy.

    P.S. Not only will they get Offended(TM) at the drop of a hat, they will drop the hat themselves.


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    Nancy2(aka Kevlar): Is there a Jezebel spirit in sports? I mean, just look at those tight skimpy clothes the athletes wear!
    Simone Biles’s outfit…… Peggy Fleming’s short skirt flapping up over her back….. Sergei Grinkov’s and Brian Boitano’s skintight pants…. the outfits those acrobats wear…..

    IBLP interns’ Long Denim Jumpers… and Loooooong… Waaaaavy… Haaaaaaair…


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    Mara R: Driscoll taught that this was about women doing strip teases and said it was okay to have a stripper pole in the bedroom. So basically, back then, he was all FOR Asherah poles, as long as it was in the marriage bedroom.

    “Just like an Asherah Pole, Except CHRISTIAN(TM)!”
    Doesn’t that sound like what the original Queen Jezebel was trying to do to Judaism?

    So Driscoll can’t help himself. When he sees a pole as an entertainment prop, his brain goes directly to strippers pole dancing. And I wouldn’t be surprised if, when he saw that performer licking and swallowing that sword, he could picture his wife obeying the command that Driscoll gave in Scotland. That command that Driscoll said was from Jesus, Himself.

    Driscoll has one helluva Dirty Mind.
    Probably dirtier than any you’ll find in the Big Bad Secular(TM) World.
    And cannot stop giving everyone else a peek into his Preferences(TM) and Appetites(TM).


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    Samuel Conner: That was probably TMI.

    Nope. 🙂 It’s details like this that help me (and maybe other people?) understand someone….helping me (and maybe other people?) know “what makes someone tick”. 🙂


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    CMT,

    Yup, you’ve parsed that correctly.

    “Oof. Is this the understatement of the century?? Are those conversations even possible at that point?”

    I don’t believe it’s possible on a large scale; people talking on both sides are just too reactive. Before transitioning, I was left thoroughly unsatisfied by both the affirming and non-affirming arguments because they ignore established hermeneutics for whatever statement happens to support their own side.

    BUT – I *have* had good individual conversations with some folks. I spent almost a year at a small non-denominational church processing my post-Reformed experience (trauma?), and decided not to stay because I felt my transition would be too disruptive. But had some great conversations with the pastor, one of the elders, and other folks, even when we landed on different sides. Generally folks might land on a non- or less-affirming viewpoint, but they legitimately did treat it as a third-order issue, noting that while they might have thoughts they don’t necessarily have answers, and that it’s OK to differ on these things.

    I think this church being non-denominational played a big part in that response, as in other denominations the leader’s positions are linked with their responses (if they don’t have a hardline stance on X, that necessarily disqualifies them from leading within that denomination).


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    I’ve not finished reading all the comments….and I don’t think anyone’s brought this up yet….

    One of the most offensive things I read that came out of Potty-Mouth Driscoll’s mouth (and I’m not American, nor do I live in the U.S.) was in the ChurchLeaders post that Dee linked to on her OP, titled Mark Driscoll Claims New Book Was Banned From Amazon for ‘Offensive Content’:

    In another conversation about the life and ministry of Elijah, Driscoll compared Vice President Kamala Harris to the biblical figure Jezebel, referring to her as “a domineering, high-controlling woman who slept her way to the top.”

    When I read this offensive crap, I said some expletive-deleted words out loud….and wondered if it would be worth the time and effort to sue the pants off of Mark Driscoll(?) ….or perhaps it would give Driscoll and the crap he spouted too much publicity.


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    researcher: Driscoll and the crap he spouted too much publicity

    Driscoll would have never made it on the “Christian” radar without flamboyant flim-flam. There is a segment of the American church which loves potty-mouth preachers … it makes them feel better about their rotten selves.


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    Our regional drama continues. On Sunday Lindell defended the sword swallower as being born again ten years ago, married man with children, the very picture of redemption. Whelp, said sword swallower has issued a rebuttal to that, wanting to clear the air. He is not a born again Christian and rejects that belief. He has no children. And apparently he rejects the picture Lindell would paint of him.


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    Quotidian:
    Is the misspelling of Alex Magala’s name throughout the article on purpose?

    I apologize. I read his name wrong. Weak brain!


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    linda: He is not a born again Christian and rejects that belief.

    I think we would be careful in declaring someone a “born again” Christian. I have some Orthodox friends who are truly committed Christians. They believe they became Christians at their baptism as infants and that the faithful live out their baptism in their entire lives. Mahal said he was not born again using the rubric of evangelical Christianity. He still believes he is a Christian.


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    linda: He is not a born again Christian and rejects that belief.

    Which means anything about him can be immediately dismissed.
    (After all, there can be no Salvation outside of the Altar Call and Sinners’ Prayer.)

    He has no children.

    Which in Christianese can mean Teh Fag Card is now in play.


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    Max: here is a segment of the American church which loves potty-mouth preachers … it makes them feel better about their rotten selves.

    There’s another dynamic in play.
    “Potty Mouth” comes across as Speaking Blunt and Plain when everyone else is Piously talking around the subject, Virtue-Signalling how squeeky-clean Christian they are.

    It comes across as a Rejection of Christianese Hypocrisy and Fake Righteousness.


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    researcher: In another conversation about the life and ministry of Elijah, Driscoll compared Vice President Kamala Harris to the biblical figure Jezebel, referring to her as “a domineering, high-controlling woman who slept her way to the top.”

    This builds his Street Cred with today’s thorougly-politicized Christians.
    Enemy of My Enemy Is My Brother in Christ. ONE OF US!


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    I was there and i go to james river church. At stronger men conference after the acts the they had the first preacher. At alter call there were 580 men gave there hearts to Christ. I was anaze and cring seeing how many men were going down to to the front. God was there and if you werent you need to be quite.


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    Nancy2(aka Kevlar): Is there a Jezebel spirit in sports? I mean, just look at those tight skimpy clothes the athletes wear!
    Simone Biles’s outfit…… Peggy Fleming’s short skirt flapping up over her back….. Sergei Grinkov’s and Brian Boitano’s skintight pants…. the outfits those acrobats wear….. Oh My!

    Dorothy Hamill’s hairdo! A Jezebel coiffure if I ever saw one! Unwholesome….yet alluring…. Jezebel!!


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    Dee–boots on the ground here. I did not say the sword man is not a Christian. I said he rejects the born again Christian label and theology. He also says he has no children. He says that when he descends with sword in him he is accepting Christ, and saved when he doesn’t hit the ground. Not exactly Orthodox theology.

    There is just no way around it–Lindell dropped the ball, and has lied to cover it up.

    Lindell claimed in his Sunday sermon the man was born again 10 years ago. The man says otherwise. Lindell claims the man is a father. The man says otherwise.

    Lindell needs to just own this. Remember this follows on the issue of growing new toes.

    Even a stopped analogue watch is right twice a day. No fan of Driscoll but he got this right.


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    Nancy2(aka Kevlar),

    “….“Fine. Next time, you get the brat down,” and spins around walks inside with the kids.”
    +++++++++++++++++

    i love this story


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    Bridget: I think much of the human race has unhealthy views with the human body;

    I think too, that much of Christianity has unhealthy views of ‘sin’.


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    Kevin phillips:
    I was there and i go to james river church. At stronger men conference after the acts the they had the first preacher.At alter call there were 580 men gave there hearts to Christ. I was anaze and cring seeing how many men were going down to to the front. God was there and if you werent you need to be quite.

    “But $o Many $oul$ Got $aved!!!!!”
    Where have we heard this one before?
    When a ManaGAWD comes under scrutiny on this or other church corruption whistleblower blog and the sock puppets come out of the woodwork?

    Souls(TM) – NOT people – are just the currency of Heaven, and like money having enough of it to your name justifies anything. Your sales record in Souls(TM) determines whether in Heaven you get to sit at His Right Hand with a bigger Crown of Glory than the others or whether you’re in a cardboard box behind a dumpster.

    And given how many get Born Again and Again and Again and Again and Again, Altar Call Invitation after Altar Call Invitation, the whole Walk-the-Aisle-Say-the-Sinners-Prayer Salvation does not seem to be that effective a method.


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    linda: Lindell needs to just own this … No fan of Driscoll but he got this right.

    Agreed. It’s Lindell who needs to repent, not Driscoll. Well, I’m sure Driscoll has lots to repent of, too … but, in this case, he was right to rebuke the ungodly act. What pastor in their right spiritual mind would have allowed this in church?! Lindell has been drifting far off track in recent years, serving up what the dudebros want in order to keep his megachurch thriving. If James River is still affiliated with the Assemblies of God, some of the big boys at AoG need to pay Lindell a visit.


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    Muff Potter: I think too, that much of Christianity has unhealthy views of ‘sin’.

    I have long maintained that Christians are just as screwed-up sexually as all those Heathens(TM) out there.


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    Max: Agreed. It’s Lindell who needs to repent, not Driscoll.

    I hear the name “Lindell”, I keep thinking of the My Pillow Guy (for those who HAVE to sleep on a CHRISTIAN pillow).
    Even though this guy’s a different Lindell. Maybe it has to do with the name?

    “Lindell… Lindell… Lindell…
    There’s just something about that Name…”


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    Max: Lindell has been drifting far off track in recent years, serving up what the dudebros want in order to keep his megachurch thriving.

    And all his dudebro rams bleated “AAAAAAA-MENNNNNN!!!!!” until one item on the menu looked Faggy.


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    What amazes me about this sad church saga is that thousands of “strong” men from 42 countries apparently didn’t have a problem with this strange event at James River! Surely some of them did, but Driscoll was the only one bold enough to call it out.


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    linda: Lindell needs to just own this.

    Linda, as I recall, you are a Baptist. Lindell is a Pentecostal. As you probably know, Pentecostals are more spiritual and right about everything than Baptists. Thus, it is not possible for a Baptist to rebuke and correct a Pentecostal. 🙂


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    Megachurches eventually reach a point where they have to keep serving up more and more sensational “ministries” to keep folks in the pew and dollars in the plate. Big screens, fog machines and skinny jeans are no longer enough. Pewsitters in the 21st century church demand more – the pulpit is forced to become church as entertainment. We ought to all be concerned about a House of God when it reaches the point where it feels compelled to put a half-naked, pole-climbing, sword-swallower on stage! I mean, Good Lord, shouldn’t monster trucks, bull-riding, and army tanks be enough!! I guess prayer meetings, Bible studies, and Christian fellowship are too old-fashioned for dudebros.


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    This episode at JRC tells you why I pray for revival in the Ozarks.

    So many churches, so few saved.


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    linda: So many churches, so few saved.

    The Gospel (the real one) has fallen out of popularity … churches are into other things now.


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    linda: So many churches, so few saved.

    The American church ain’t scaring the devil much these days.


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    The American church has invited him in, fixed his favorite coffee, plays his favorite music, and seats him on the platform while telling his favorite lies.


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    linda,

    Yep, that old serpent is greatly honored in some corners of the American church. He particularly likes churches which say they are “culturally-relevant” where just about anything goes. Before you know it, they will have a half-naked, pole-slithering, sword-swallower on stage where the Gospel should be preached (oh wait a minute …)


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    Max,
    Max, there is good culturally relevant and there is bad culturally relevant, and Christians seem to specialize in the second.


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    Max: Lindell is a Pentecostal.

    Which means Tongues, Tongues, Tongues, Tongues, Tongues, and Words of Prophecy direct from GOD every 30 seconds.


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    linda: This episode at JRC tells you why I pray for revival in the Ozarks.

    Every Christian in the Ozarks who heard the news about the mess at JRC should be crying out to God for revival and spiritual awakening. Things like this should cause the Body of Christ in the Springfield region to humble themselves, pray, repent, and seek God. Or perhaps area churches aren’t desperate enough yet?


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    Kevin phillips,

    This is when the gift of discernment – by everybody, especially the newcomers themselves – needs to come in. Ascending, Jesus gave it to them unvetoed. Jn 3:16 those who hold to belief, and in all the meanings of all of Scripture, will be able to co tinue in the life that lasts. Then they will not fall away even amidst lunacy. Am I a dissident to you?


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    Alexandra A,

    I want to very strongly endorse this point by Alexandra A. The very big element we are tal.ing about are copying moralising religion to reinforce unrealistic stereotypes (spreading terror among schoolgirls and women university students as well as everyone gentle and tasteful AND everyone afraid to invent their own version of anything and reject that imposed by contracted authorities), publicly weaponise private parts of the young (guilt ridden at their muscular christianity – I am eyewitness in my classroom as well as the denomination I mainly hung around in the 1980s-1990s *) and demean all bodies of everybody, enlist underage actors on their fictions that are fictions, forbid communication between generations, create a totally false conflict between umbrellas they have usurped, commercially fuel cruelty. These contracted usurpers are doing the identical job to Driscoll and Andrew Tate, state religions (plural), and the annuated restless reformed.

    { * It’s appalling that Americans haven’t noticed this }


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    Michael in UK: This is when the gift of discernment – by everybody, especially the newcomers themselves – needs to come in.

    Unfortunately “discernment” has been redefined into a “diabolical meaning” of SEEING Demons and Witches in every closet and under every bed like a Witchfinder-General.
    (Or maybe Fortuantely, eh, my dear Wormwood?)

    …those who hold to belief, and in all the meanings of all of Scripture, will be able to continue in the life that lasts.

    A “life that lasts” that has also been redefined into a “diabolical meaning” of never-ending church service, never-ending Bible study, never-ending Testimony Night, and/or non-physical chatty-bots endlessly shouting “PRAISE THE LOOOOOOOORD!” forever. (In short, “One of those Heavens that resemble Hell.”)


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    Alexandra A: Trans person here, unfortunately a lot of people who claim to advocate for us (and in many cases are not trans) make this equivalency (i.e. trans = kink = sex/porn).

    Don’t forget Social Media Fads in the mix. Like TikTokers faking Tourettes and DID (multiple personalities) in their climb to Influencer status. (There’s a YouTube channel called “Ticcing Together” by a woman with serious Tourettes who scrutinizes and debunks these Influencer videos, pointing out where their Tourettes doesn’t match the real thing.)

    What prevents these terminally-online Trendoids from also faking gender dysphoria and going viral?

    At the very least (like the fake Tourettes) it puts so much noise in the channel that the signal (from those who actually DO have the condition being faked) are lost.

    And from my experience watching Trendy Fads (like Teh Gay in Furry Fandom), the fakers turn themselves into Cartoon Parody Exaggerations of the real thing. Like taking Teh Gay high-profile using Jack Chick & Fred Phelps’s version of what THEY are Really Like as How To Behave In Public. (I’m talking as over the top as Baron Harkonnen in a Castro Street Pride Parade – Let the Freak Flag fly.)

    And this just triggers a backlash. Especially from the CHRISTIANS, as it fits right into one of their strongest taboos. Fitting so tight it could have been deliberately targeted to enrage them.


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    Max: Yep, that old serpent is greatly honored in some corners of the American church.

    You’re slipping into Christianese again. Max…

    He particularly likes churches which say they are “culturally-relevant” where just about anything goes

    Another factor in play:

    “Nothing gets Old-Fashioned faster than Over-Relevance.”
    — my old Dungeonmaster
    “Except PRETTENTIOUS Over-Relevance.”
    — my corollary to the above

    Lewis or Chesterton also wrote that when the church syncretes to something in time, it ends up attached to that thing in Time and becomes fixed in that Present Time (which as time flows, always becomes the Old-Fashioned Past) and subject to Aging and Dying with that Time.

    The same thing happens with Near-Future SF (and its Christian Counterfeit, Christian Apocalyptic), where the author has to tie a fixed backstory into an always-changing Present Day. And you get a Future with computers the size of buildings, no all-purpose phones or Internet in every pocket, and the USSR still in power. The Future timeline becomes Alternate History with the first divergence in Reality, and in Left Behind everyone is flooding the banks of pay phones in the airport immediately after the (near-future) Rapture.


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    Latest from Julie Roys on the subject:

    Monster Truck Rally or Holy Spirit Barbie Party? A Missouri Megachurch Offers Both
    https://julieroys.com/monster-truck-rally-holy-spirit-barbie-party-missouri-megachurch/

    “A promo for the men’s conference begins with images of a roaring motorcycle, a wrestling match and a shouting preacher pacing across the stage like a lion, urging men to get ready to fight.

    “The promo for the women’s video begins with the image of a pink record player, followed by the voice of the late televangelist Kathryn Kuhlman, urging women to give their worship to God — then breaks to scenes of joyful women dressed in stylish pink, dancing with joy as balloons and confetti fall from the sky.”

    Just read it.

    Especially the “Psst! Marks! Keep kayfabe!” feud between Lindell and Driscoll.

    WHO CAME UP WITH THIS UNHOLY SPAWN OF VINCE MC MAHON AND DOUG PHILLIPS ESQUIRE?


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    “Hurry, Hurry, Hurry, Sign Right Up for the Greatest Show on Earth!” … the 2025 Stronger Men’s Conference is already scheduled! Professional football stars, bull-riding, motocross, professional wrestling!!

    Unfortunately, unless he repents, Mr. Driscoll will not return as featured speaker.

    https://strongermen.org/


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    Max: “Hurry, Hurry, Hurry, Sign Right Up for the Greatest Show on Earth!” … the 2025 Stronger Men’s Conference is already scheduled! Professional football stars, bull-riding, motocross, professional wrestling!!

    In the words of the prophets Emerson, Lake & Palmer:
    Karn Evil Nine, First Impression, Part One: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKAEqeHeDSo
    Karn Evil Nine, First Impression, Part Two: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cc6ymS4NGxg
    (Things don’t really get hopping (and the lyrics understandable) until halfway thru Part One.)


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    “Today we have the astonishing spectacle of millions of dollars being poured into the unholy job of providing earthly entertainment for the so-called sons of heaven. Religious entertainment is in many places rapidly crowding out the serious things of God. Many churches these days have become little more than poor theaters where fifth-rate “producers” peddle their shoddy wares with the full approval of evangelical leaders who can even quote a holy text in defense of their delinquency. And hardly a man dares raise his voice against it.” (A.W. Tozer)


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    Max: Many churches these days have become little more than poor theaters where fifth-rate “producers” peddle their shoddy wares with the full approval of evangelical leaders who can even quote a holy text in defense of their delinquency.

    Wanna-bes.

    Even the KGB operative who played Big-Time Rock Promoter with Agency money back in the Eighties got a hit (“99 Balloons”) out of it. But these Godly Wanna-bes?


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    Max: Unfortunately, unless he repents, Mr. Driscoll will not return as featured speaker.

    Then Dee Tee Dee will have to reinvent himself again.
    For instance, the pic at the top.
    That’s the Kewpie Doll with Mickey Mouse T-Shirt “Aging Youth Pastor” Driscoll from two Driscolls ago.
    Then came the “Leonardo De Caprio’s Professor from Don’t Look Up” Driscoll from one Driscoll ago.
    And today, the current Driscoll incarnation is the “Amos from The Expanse” Driscoll.