Due to current events about which I cannot speak, I have deleted this post.
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Emilie Paige Dye — 67 Comments
Thank you, Emilie Paige Dye, for sharing your story. Courage is the word that comes to mind. God bless you.
The Moscow situation, apparently, has tentacles that reach far beyond Idaho. Will there be a doc series some day? Like “Let Us Prey”?
Re: Senior Pastors (and their wives) who are not predators themselves: The violated minors, now adults, who testified and share their stories in “Let Us Prey” said the senior pastors overseeing but doing NOTHING about their predator junior pastors, are even MORE culpable. The senior pastors KNEW FOR DECADES that their youth pastors were violating minors but they did NOTHING. Senior Pastors are in charge.
Re: local LE & the DOJ: It sounds like in Moscow, local professionals in LE and the DOJ may also be members of the Kirk(s). Does this prohibit doing the right thing regarding the violation of minors in that region? Due process not happening? Addressing criminal predators denied?
I’ll be back after a good cry. You poor child.
There’s really no way to buffer this horrific tale with any words that ring true, except for this:
Dye’s abuser is a criminal, plain and simple, and if he’s not in jail yet, he certainly needs to be.
How achingly awful.
Ava Aaronson: It sounds like in Moscow, local professionals in LE and the DOJ may also be members of the Kirk(s). Does this prohibit doing the right thing regarding the violation of minors in that region?
What do you think?
Their Loyalty is to the Kirk and its Head Apostle.
“PENETRATE! COLONIZE! CONQUER! PLANT! PENETRATE! COLONIZE! CONQUER! PLANT!”
We have seen this pattern before, in this and other church corruption blogs.
Megapastor Superapostle makes sure the local authorities are in his pocket.
Megapastor Superapostle makes sure HE is on the Cop side of the Cop/Not-Cop Divide, whether by becoming a Police Chaplain or giving off-duty cops creampuff security jobs. Great when LE and DOJ can be your personal Enforcers.
“TOUCH NOT MINE ANOINTED!!!!!”
A network, a cult leader + followers cult, actually, IF the org is harmful to participants. It is. Harmful. Obviously, by these testimonies.
A web,arrangement, grid, system.
They or He, the leader, set up a K-12 or PreK-12 school, so they have minors as customers and their parents as constituents. Do it right or it’s a minefield for children and families, with no small consequences.
Jesus said harm against children is worthy of being cast into the sea shackled to a millstone. (Doesn’t the mafia shackle enemies to cement blocks, then throw them overboard? Jesus is suggesting their punishment for them, it seems. Serious stuff. No small consequences for those who harm or turn a blind eye to harming children.)
Anyway, then the school they/he founded becomes the lead of a network of schools WITH their/his press marketing curriculum worldwide. So, influence. Again, do it right, or be held accountable for damaging more lives. (Bill Gothard’s systems and influence comes to mind, however Gothard was himself a predator instead of a married nonpredatory leader that hires and covers for predators. So, difference. But equally influential and damaging.)
On top of these institutions with children, there are their institutions with faculty in authority over adults, which also include a type of seminary that churns out spiritual leaders with authority in their future communities. More influence. More potential damage.
Now lace all of these institutions that he, the founder, or they, the founders, have created, with a heavy presence of Patriarchy, and the result is a network with long tentacles that invites and sustains predators. Whether intentional or not by the founder(s), this network results in predator heaven. Like John Piper, who is not an overt predator himself but he set up a predator protection program.
Just another cancer spreading in our free society.
In contrast, Jesus and His disciples did not spread disease or social ills or criminality or Patriarchy. Jesus healed people, rescued people out of social ills, and spread healthy social relationships everywhere. Everyone is on level ground at the foot of Jesus (Jesus on the cross, now Jesus on the throne). Jesus restores agency (instead of destroying agency).
In this particular story, everything about how this predatory teacher and his superintendent boss (with wife) treated this student … everything was an attack on her agency.
Jesus died and rose to restore our agency. As friends with God we are free agents. It’s the only way God wants to relate to us. God created each of us, man and woman, in His image, for primary fellowship with Him first, and then secondary fellowship with others. Agency intact, always.
The moment someone attacks our agency, we run to God for health, safety, preservation, and restoration. We can breath.
“The superintendent … concluded the conversation by telling me that if anyone asked what had happened, I was to lie … I wonder how different my story would have been if the person in charge at my school, the superintendent, had done something to protect me”
Leaders who fail their function as a mandated reporter of child abuse are subject to criminal penalties.
“if my parents had been more present …”
… they would have never sent her to a “Christian” school connected to Doug Wilson.
Ava Aaronson: Bill Gothard’s systems and influence comes to mind
There have been, no doubt, lots of victims within the purity culture established by Bill Gothard, who turned out to be about as impure as you can get!
Muff Potter: Dye’s abuser is a criminal, plain and simple, and if he’s not in jail yet, he certainly needs to be.
I hope Part Two of this sad story doesn’t reveal that the man is still out there lurking in another “Christian” school.
Remember The Godfather?
One of the reasons for the big Mafia war in the book/movie was because Don Corleone would not share all the judges/prosecutors/cops/Congressmen he owned. All of them bought and paid for.
Jesus said, “It would be better for them to be thrown into the sea with a millstone tied around their neck than to cause one of these little ones to stumble.”
Nothing about Emile’s story surprises me; that is EXACTLY how my fundamentalist school would have handled it. IMHO, the “whole structure” is depraved.. While I could go on and on, it would only disgust me more…
Yikes. Not only was everyone at that school completely remiss (and that’s a mild way of putting it). Those parents were also completely remiss. And again, I could use much stronger language. Good grief. I’m in shock. What horrible people. What an insane, creepy cult. That poor girl. Lord have mercy.
Jeffrey J Chalmers: Nothing about Emile’s story surprises me; that is EXACTLY how my fundamentalist school would have handled it. IMHO, the “whole structure” is depraved.
As they say in reformed ranks, totally depraved!
For a group of fundamentalists, they neglected to do the most basic of fundamental things … to love and protect the young and innocent among them.
Catholic Gate-Crasher: What an insane, creepy cult. That poor girl. Lord have mercy.
Yeah it is insane and creepy.
And to think they want a fundamentalist dictatorship to rule the U.S. too.
This is a horrifying story. Just to tell it shows such courage on Emilie’s part. I am struck by the extent to which she was groomed, not only by the perpetrator but by the whole culture. It seems very obvious from the behavior of every adult in this account that the goal was to build massive walls of ignorance around young people. Not for their protection, of course, but for the protection of the system.
Learning basic anatomy and sex ed from a fellow college student at a party must have been humiliating. But, I am cheering that girl with the whiteboard. Arming a vulnerable friend with knowledge is such a perfect response, and it’s what the adults in Emilie’s life should have been doing for years but failed at miserably.
Headless Unicorn Guy: Great when LE and DOJ can be your personal Enforcers.
“TOUCH NOT MINE ANOINTED!!!!!”
A tweet from Dr. Ruth Ben-Ghiat last night:
“Protecting criminals is the purpose of an authoritarian party.”
Think about that … and the multitude of authoritarian “Christian” leaders and their orgs.
@ruthbenghiat is the researcher and writer of the book; “Strongmen”.
Max: For a group of fundamentalists, they neglected to do the most basic of fundamental things … to love and protect the young and innocent among them.
Their loyalty was to #1 their leader (not Jesus) and #2 their leader’s org (not the Body of Christ).
From Julie Roys 1.19.2021:
“Certainly, loyalty, when directed toward someone who deserves it, is a virtue. Yet …, it [loyalty] can be a vice.”
The Royce Report is clarifying when loyalty is evil.
You can tell by how she writes that her words are real and raw and she is processing what happened to her. Nothing about this seems fake or exaggerated. I totally believe her. I hope that she has terrific counsel and can be healed from this madness.
As soon as your superiors, in any org, appeal to your loyalty, run!
As soon as your superiors, in any org, appeal to your loyalty, something unethical is happening, has happened, will happen – possibly all three.
(And I’m not going to mention which politician told people who reported to them that he needed their complete loyalty.)
Your loyalty is to the truth, and if you’re a christian, to the one who is the Truth – lying “for Jesus”, directed by liars “for Jesus” – that is the work of the father of lies.
Terrible account. Too many teachers engage in this behavior. There needs to be a no tolerance policy and real consequences for such behavior.
I have seen this kind of thing happen in public schools, nonprofit clubs, sports teams, youth groups, religious schools, and churches.
I am glad this young woman survived. I hope she is doing well.
There are often common practices and themes that exist in these settings that permit situations like this to occur. Each institution should do a self audit to look at how the organization is set up and whether it creates opportunities for improper contact and intimacy.
Ava Aaronson: Their loyalty was to #1 their leader (not Jesus) and #2 their leader’s org (not the Body of Christ).
To be in the inner ring was more important than living righteously in the Kingdom of God. Protecting the reputation of their school and its leaders was more important than doing the right thing in the sight of God.
“Federal Vision: You are in a covenant with God by your baptism.You then maintin your covenant standing with God throughout your life by your good works of obedience and covenant faithfulness.“
++++++++++++++++++
Elastigirl: That’s how I see my relationship with God, too.
That’s the way it was intended from the beginning, but then religion got a hold of it, and effed it up. (my opinion)
CMT – I agree. God bless the girl with the white board and knowledge, willing to teach another so she is no longer uninformed. This story was so heartbreaking. What a brave woman she now is.
I’m so sorry that you had to go through these experiences. I pray you are healing and have some way to expose these monsters for what they are . . . pedophiles clothed in lies.
Gus: As soon as your superiors, in any org, appeal to your loyalty, run!
After a while, most organizations take on the personality of its leadership. This is Doug Wilson’s school … think about it.
Emilie,
You deserved to be safe and protected. It is morally shocking how badly you were failed by all those who you should have rightfully been able to count on. None of it was your fault. Thank you for your courage in sharing your story so that others who have tragically also been victimized will find parallels to your story in their story and realize that they are not alone, and hopefully others may be prevented from experiencing what you had to go through.
Jesus was speaking of “unclean” foods here, but it applies to sexual abuse as well:
Mark 7:14-23 Again Jesus called the crowd to him and said, “Listen to me, everyone, and understand this. Nothing outside a person can defile them by going into them. Rather, it is what comes out of a person that defiles them.”
After he had left the crowd and entered the house, his disciples asked him about this parable. “Are you so dull?” he asked. “Don’t you see that nothing that enters a person from the outside can defile them? For it doesn’t go into their heart but into their stomach, and then out of the body.” (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods clean.)
He went on: “What comes out of a person is what defiles them. For it is from within, out of a person’s heart, that evil thoughts come—sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, greed, malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander, arrogance and folly. All these evils come from inside and defile a person.”
Emilie.
You should have been safe and protected. The extent to which so many people did not protect you, but rather protected your abuser is morally shocking and infuriating. Thank you for your courage in telling your story because we know that it will cost you. May other victims of your abuser or others read your story and see parallels to their own and get some measure of healing in realizing that they are not alone. In seeing clearly how you were not at fault, may it help them to be freed of any notion they carry that they are at fault. And may some never be victimized because you told your story.
Jesus was speaking of “unclean” food when he spoke these words, but I believe they apply to sexual assault as well:
Mark 7: 14-23 Again Jesus called the crowd to him and said, “Listen to me, everyone, and understand this. Nothing outside a person can defile them by going into them. Rather, it is what comes out of a person that defiles them.”
After he had left the crowd and entered the house, his disciples asked him about this parable. “Are you so dull?” he asked. “Don’t you see that nothing that enters a person from the outside can defile them? For it doesn’t go into their heart but into their stomach, and then out of the body.” (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods clean.)
He went on: “What comes out of a person is what defiles them. For it is from within, out of a person’s heart, that evil thoughts come—sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, greed, malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander, arrogance and folly. All these evils come from inside and defile a person.”
He defiled only himself.
Max: This is Doug Wilson’s school … think about it.
And (Piper quote) – “he gets the gospel”. Just like Piper’s love for “Driskle’s theology”.
Between “orthodoxy” (believing and teaching the ‘right’ things) and “orthopraxy” (doing the right thing), I’ll take the latter any day.
But this actually should not have to be an “either – or” choice.
Gus: (Piper quote) – “he gets the gospel”. Just like Piper’s love for “Driskle’s theology”.
There’s a mutual admiration society within New Calvinism where these characters support each other for the good of the movement. After all, Gospel = Calvinism to the NeoCal bunch. They will stand by their man until the potato becomes too hot to handle .. it then becomes “Wilson who?”, “Driscoll who?”, “Mahaney who?” etc. etc.
Elastigirl: “Federal Vision: You are in a covenant with God by your baptism.You then maintin your covenant standing with God throughout your life by your good works of obedience and covenant faithfulness.“
Elastigirl, As I see it, I AM in a covenant with Jesus, because of His love. As with Abram, the covenant is one way and not conditional. Jesus proclaims His love for me, He initiated my redemption and He maintains the covenant regardless of my good works, obedience or faithfulness. It’s Who He is. Predictably, that inspires more obedient efforts on my part than anything imaginable.
Eyewitness: You should have been safe and protected. The extent to which so many people did not protect you, but rather protected your abuser is morally shocking and infuriating.
But very CHRISTIAN.
So CHRISTIAN, you’d think it’s (yet another) Litmus Test of Salvation.
Remember Boz T?
In all his years as a prosecutor specializing in CSA/ChoMo cases, he NEVER saw a church that sided with and supported the victim. Always “RALLY ROUND THE CHOMO, BOYZ! GAWD SAITH!” With or without the “PERSECUTION!” card played off the bottom of the deck.
Max: it then becomes “Wilson who?”, “Driscoll who?”, “Mahaney who?” etc. etc.
AS OF NOW, THEY NEVER EXISTED.
doubleplusungood ref doubleplusunpersons.
Emilie,
i finally read through to the end. (too much happening in life at the moment)
i believe you, completely.
it just totally sucks. (understatement, but there really are no adequate words)
thank you for your courage in telling your story. silenced no more.
I hope you are somehow able to continually be shedding the foolish nonsense that christian culture is webbed in.
i’m fairly sure God/Jesus/Holy Spirit marvel in disgust at what happens in (their) name.
justice is far too slow, as far as i’m concerned. Please pick up the pace, God.
i believe you have no problem with a plainspoken prayer.
my friends and family love me unconditionally. no covenant required. the word is a loaded term and unnecessary.
a weird analogy, but it’s sort of like a high-quality piece of meat prepared just right, and covering it with ketchup, assuming it needs it.
or incredible ice cream and covering it with chocolate and caramel and more chocolate and more caramel and sprinkles and oreo cookie crumbs and m&ms and gummy worms…
we just love each other. we feel the gravitas of these precious human beings that we belong to and who belong to us.
my relationship with God is the same.
it’s pure. nothing more could possible be needed.
Emilie, your story is absolutely credible. I have known many instances of this kind of thing and you describe what happens in case after case. I also read Doug Wilson’s “Jim Nance Timeline” here: https://dougwils.com/the-church/a-jim-nance-timeline.html and it sickens me. Yes, Wilson reported him to the police, but even in his online post, he implicates you as covering up, and I quote “This repentance was false, in that he and Emilie were still covering up what they had done.” This man groomed, manipulated, controlled and abused you. You were an innocent high school student who had been sheltered and had absolutely no idea what was happening. You had no idea of how to cover up. And it appears that the shame of the incidents pushed you into freezing and anorexia, and probably nightmares and anxiety attacks.
Wilson is wrong for saying that you were covering it up. He did not treat you as a victim, which he should have, and he should have known better as a man with 40 years in ministry. This makes me sick. Wilson needs to be removed from ministry. Jim should never be allowed to serve in any public capacity for many years, like 10 or 20, maybe never. It’s a shame he wasn’t arrested and proven to be a pedophile.
My heart breaks for you. You will struggle for many years, and maybe your entire life because of this monster. May the Lord of Glory bring this man’s sins down on his own head. May he comfort you, heal you, give you hope in is loving mercy and grace.
Unfortunately, Emilie is no longer a Christian. She was shamed publicly at Capitol Hill (aka Mark Dever’s church) and left the faith.
well,…not that you’re necessarily wanting my answer,
but i’ll share it anyway –
my long-held thoughts are crystallizing into enough clarity to say weird co-dependency. cosmic co-dependency.
institutionalized co-dependency.
i flesh it out more on the liam golligher post.
Muff Potter: Bob M: Unfortunately, Emilie is no longer a Christian.
And you know this how?
Simply because she no longer jumps through all the ‘approved’ Christian hoops?
Because she Hath Uttered Blasphemy against the Mighty ManaGAWD, Head Apostle of the Kirk?
(i.e. The Jerk with the Kirk who’s trying to pull a Rajneeshpuram on Moscow, Idaho.)
Bob M: Emilie is no longer a Christian. She was shamed publicly at Capitol Hill (aka Mark Dever’s church) and left the faith
Left the faith or left the church? There’s a big difference. Some of the best Christians I know (including many Wartburgers) may not go to church, but they are the Church. Being excommunicated by a church doesn’t mean you have been excluded from the Body of Christ. The religious kingdoms of men are often in conflict with the Kingdom of God.
When the blind man gave testimony of Jesus healing him, the church threw him out but Jesus went looking for him. IMO, Jesus doesn’t go to a lot of churches … why would He?
You can often find the “Church” in America caring for the poor, widows and orphans even if the “church” down the street doesn’t. TWW cares deeply about those abused by the church by being the Church to them. We would all do well to take our Bibles and explore what Church is and what church isn’t, without Scripture being filtered through the theologies of mere men.
Gus: And (Piper quote) – “he gets the gospel”. Just like Piper’s love for “Driskle’s theology”.
That sounds so much like the Jesus Ad Jingle “HE GETS US!” that was all trendy a couple years ago.
Muff Potter: Yeah it is insane and creepy.
And to think they want a fundamentalist dictatorship to rule the U.S. too.
Because (just like “This Time We WILL Achieve True Communism!”) then the Right People (guess who?) will be giving the orders from on high.
And after a generation or two living in such a Godly CHRISTIAN Nation, the name “Jesus Christ” will carry the exact same baggage as the name “Adolf Hitler”. And the Cross the same baggage as the Hakenkreuz.
Bob M: Unfortunately, Emilie is no longer a Christian. She was shamed publicly at Capitol Hill (aka Mark Dever’s church) and left the faith.
Running this through a Christianese-to-English translator algorithm: “ME SHEEP! HER GOAT! HAW! HAW! HAW!”
Wilson is wrong, period. If he came up to me claiming “2 by 2 equals 4” I’d make sure to double-check (at least double) the statement.
What he does and how he deals with the weak, or those who – in fact or in his view – disagree with him, invalidates everything else he says, even the things that are not wrong on the surface.
Max: Bob M: Emilie is no longer a Christian. She was shamed publicly at Capitol Hill (aka Mark Dever’s church) and left the faith
Left the faith or left the church? There’s a big difference. Some of the best Christians I know (including many Wartburgers) may not go to church, but they are the Church. Being excommunicated by a church doesn’t mean you have been excluded from the Body of Christ. The religious kingdoms of men are often in conflict with the Kingdom of God.
(The bold was done by me.)
I’m not criticizing you, Max, nor any of the other TWW commenters who commented on Bob M’s comment on Emilie Dye no longer being a Christian. 🙂 Bob M was commenting on something Emilie Dye wrote in a post and he’d provided the link in his comment.
From Emilie Dye’s April 7, 2020, post from The Truth About Moscow titled Another Sexual Abuser — This One a Kirk Officer: Same Story Cover Up, Different Victim:
It is a bit out of my norm to write posts over 100 words and definitely not about dirty laundry. But I have decided to explain why I am no longer a Christian. For many this will not come as a surprise; others may mourn the state of my soul; and some will wonder how/why I stuck to my faith for so long.
Perhaps in the time since Emilie Dye wrote that she’s no longer a Christian, she — like others — has returned to Christianity….kinda-sorta like the kind that’s practiced on TWW. 🙂
“the Jesus Ad Jingle “HE GETS US!” that was all trendy a couple years ago”
++++++++++++++++++
..that’s reason enough to opt out of the system.
it’s like living in a pepsi commerical.
These days I call them “Christianese Counterfeits”.
You know, the knockoff T-shirts or posters or jewelry or anything that looks just like some pop-culture T-shirt/whatever on first glance but when you look close is some Christianese buzzword or verse or “Witnessing” that mimics the original’s format and style almost exactly? Like product counterfeiting with just enough changed to Make it CHRISTIAN(TM)?
The example that comes to mind is a Christian Counterfeit T-shirt I saw once during the height of Twilight Mania. Same color, same format, same font, except instead of “Twilight” it read “TheLight”. That sort of thing.
Bob M: Unfortunately, Emilie is no longer a Christian. She was shamed publicly at Capitol Hill (aka Mark Dever’s church) and left the faith.
Wouldn’t you leave a faith that did THAT to you?
While Virtue-Signalling how Godly they were?
And how “This Is GOD!” by example?
“Taking the Name of the LORD in Vain” originally meant doing evil (such as was done to Emilie) in the Name of GOD, NOT cussing. Justifying evil as Godly, creating a Shanda fur die Goyim in the process.
When God Said “Thou Shalt Not”, He was saying “You do your own dirty work! Don’t drag ME into it! Not even with a mentionin of Me!” Because then God gets dragged into the Evil as an accessory.
researcher: Perhaps in the time since Emilie Dye wrote that she’s no longer a Christian, she — like others — has returned to Christianity….kinda-sorta like the kind that’s practiced on TWW.
There’s a pattern where the initial reaction is “TAKE YOUR GOD AND SHOVE IT!”, getting as far away from the abusive environment as you can get. It’s a matter of survival.
After things cool over time, you can drift back into the faith – a lower-key, mellower version of the faith. A lot of abuse comes from an all-consuming, high-powered, high-controlling, More On Fire Than Thou RIGHTeous environment.
Gus: Wilson is wrong, period. If he came up to me claiming “2 by 2 equals 4” I’d make sure to double-check (at least double) the statement.
As you do with anyone known as a Pathological Liar.
They literally CANNOT stop lying!
Even when there’s no possible reason or motive for it!
“Remember… It’s not a lie if YOU believe it!” — Seinfeld
“men were only friends with women because they wanted to sleep with them”
She just defined body theology.
I saw the start of it, from my ex-religion teacher (who left in a hurry)
(when things were done to girls – by a friend of churches – in a TV studio – I thought there was something wrong with the atmosphere on that programme; I later met a traumatised studio cameraman)
(when religion had to be spread by “influencing”)
And we weren’t like that and that includes the agnostics
Why would parents not buy for their children the books of classical authors and scholars second hand / borrow them from libraries.
Max: There’s a mutual admiration society within New Calvinism
I’d use a much stronger word than “admiration”.
Muff Potter: And you know this how?
Simply because she no longer jumps through all the ‘approved’ Christian hoops?
Only because she said it here:
I would never judge one’s faith, that is between her and God.
“It is a bit out of my norm to write posts over 100 words and definitely not about dirty laundry. But I have decided to explain why I am no longer a Christian. For many this will not come as a surprise; others may mourn the state of my soul; and some will wonder how/why I stuck to my faith for so long.”
If someone else pointed this out, I apologize. I don’t have time to read every post.
Believer:
Jesus said, “It would be better for them to be thrown into the sea with a millstone tied around their neck than to cause one of these little ones to stumble.”
Or as Coffee with Jesus (online clipart strip) put it:
“A millstone makes a poor flotation device.”
Sarah Stankorb recently wrote a post for SLATE: That Moscow Mood, which was subtitled: How much culture war is too much for American evangelicals? Sarah summarized Emilie’s story within the broader post.
The Slate article mentioned in passing about Doug Wilson and cigars.
What is it with Real Alpha Males and HUGE Andrew Tate-sized cigars? Lit ONLY with a wooden match? Is it some kind of shtick? Or just a Tribal Recognition Mark?
When YouTube’s Sacred Algorithm spotted some keyword and flooded my inbox with Manosphere videos, that was a recurring theme. I remember one popping up in my feed that began with a Real Alpha Male with sternum-length beard very ostentatiously striking a wooden match to light an Andrew Tate-sized cigar. At which point I know It Could Only Go Downhill From Here.
Headless Unicorn Guy: Or as Coffee with Jesus (online clipart strip) put it:
“A millstone makes a poor flotation device.”
Thank you, Emilie Paige Dye, for sharing your story. Courage is the word that comes to mind. God bless you.
The Moscow situation, apparently, has tentacles that reach far beyond Idaho. Will there be a doc series some day? Like “Let Us Prey”?
Re: Senior Pastors (and their wives) who are not predators themselves: The violated minors, now adults, who testified and share their stories in “Let Us Prey” said the senior pastors overseeing but doing NOTHING about their predator junior pastors, are even MORE culpable. The senior pastors KNEW FOR DECADES that their youth pastors were violating minors but they did NOTHING. Senior Pastors are in charge.
Re: local LE & the DOJ: It sounds like in Moscow, local professionals in LE and the DOJ may also be members of the Kirk(s). Does this prohibit doing the right thing regarding the violation of minors in that region? Due process not happening? Addressing criminal predators denied?
I’ll be back after a good cry. You poor child.
There’s really no way to buffer this horrific tale with any words that ring true, except for this:
Dye’s abuser is a criminal, plain and simple, and if he’s not in jail yet, he certainly needs to be.
How achingly awful.
What do you think?
Their Loyalty is to the Kirk and its Head Apostle.
“PENETRATE! COLONIZE! CONQUER! PLANT! PENETRATE! COLONIZE! CONQUER! PLANT!”
We have seen this pattern before, in this and other church corruption blogs.
Megapastor Superapostle makes sure the local authorities are in his pocket.
Megapastor Superapostle makes sure HE is on the Cop side of the Cop/Not-Cop Divide, whether by becoming a Police Chaplain or giving off-duty cops creampuff security jobs. Great when LE and DOJ can be your personal Enforcers.
“TOUCH NOT MINE ANOINTED!!!!!”
Mafia-esque, eh?
A network, a cult leader + followers cult, actually, IF the org is harmful to participants. It is. Harmful. Obviously, by these testimonies.
A web,arrangement, grid, system.
They or He, the leader, set up a K-12 or PreK-12 school, so they have minors as customers and their parents as constituents. Do it right or it’s a minefield for children and families, with no small consequences.
Jesus said harm against children is worthy of being cast into the sea shackled to a millstone. (Doesn’t the mafia shackle enemies to cement blocks, then throw them overboard? Jesus is suggesting their punishment for them, it seems. Serious stuff. No small consequences for those who harm or turn a blind eye to harming children.)
Anyway, then the school they/he founded becomes the lead of a network of schools WITH their/his press marketing curriculum worldwide. So, influence. Again, do it right, or be held accountable for damaging more lives. (Bill Gothard’s systems and influence comes to mind, however Gothard was himself a predator instead of a married nonpredatory leader that hires and covers for predators. So, difference. But equally influential and damaging.)
On top of these institutions with children, there are their institutions with faculty in authority over adults, which also include a type of seminary that churns out spiritual leaders with authority in their future communities. More influence. More potential damage.
Now lace all of these institutions that he, the founder, or they, the founders, have created, with a heavy presence of Patriarchy, and the result is a network with long tentacles that invites and sustains predators. Whether intentional or not by the founder(s), this network results in predator heaven. Like John Piper, who is not an overt predator himself but he set up a predator protection program.
Just another cancer spreading in our free society.
In contrast, Jesus and His disciples did not spread disease or social ills or criminality or Patriarchy. Jesus healed people, rescued people out of social ills, and spread healthy social relationships everywhere. Everyone is on level ground at the foot of Jesus (Jesus on the cross, now Jesus on the throne). Jesus restores agency (instead of destroying agency).
In this particular story, everything about how this predatory teacher and his superintendent boss (with wife) treated this student … everything was an attack on her agency.
Jesus died and rose to restore our agency. As friends with God we are free agents. It’s the only way God wants to relate to us. God created each of us, man and woman, in His image, for primary fellowship with Him first, and then secondary fellowship with others. Agency intact, always.
The moment someone attacks our agency, we run to God for health, safety, preservation, and restoration. We can breath.
“The superintendent … concluded the conversation by telling me that if anyone asked what had happened, I was to lie … I wonder how different my story would have been if the person in charge at my school, the superintendent, had done something to protect me”
Leaders who fail their function as a mandated reporter of child abuse are subject to criminal penalties.
“if my parents had been more present …”
… they would have never sent her to a “Christian” school connected to Doug Wilson.
There have been, no doubt, lots of victims within the purity culture established by Bill Gothard, who turned out to be about as impure as you can get!
I hope Part Two of this sad story doesn’t reveal that the man is still out there lurking in another “Christian” school.
Remember The Godfather?
One of the reasons for the big Mafia war in the book/movie was because Don Corleone would not share all the judges/prosecutors/cops/Congressmen he owned. All of them bought and paid for.
Jesus said, “It would be better for them to be thrown into the sea with a millstone tied around their neck than to cause one of these little ones to stumble.”
Nothing about Emile’s story surprises me; that is EXACTLY how my fundamentalist school would have handled it. IMHO, the “whole structure” is depraved.. While I could go on and on, it would only disgust me more…
Yikes. Not only was everyone at that school completely remiss (and that’s a mild way of putting it). Those parents were also completely remiss. And again, I could use much stronger language. Good grief. I’m in shock. What horrible people. What an insane, creepy cult. That poor girl. Lord have mercy.
As they say in reformed ranks, totally depraved!
For a group of fundamentalists, they neglected to do the most basic of fundamental things … to love and protect the young and innocent among them.
Max,
Yup….which in my mind, says it all… period..
Yeah it is insane and creepy.
And to think they want a fundamentalist dictatorship to rule the U.S. too.
This is a horrifying story. Just to tell it shows such courage on Emilie’s part. I am struck by the extent to which she was groomed, not only by the perpetrator but by the whole culture. It seems very obvious from the behavior of every adult in this account that the goal was to build massive walls of ignorance around young people. Not for their protection, of course, but for the protection of the system.
Learning basic anatomy and sex ed from a fellow college student at a party must have been humiliating. But, I am cheering that girl with the whiteboard. Arming a vulnerable friend with knowledge is such a perfect response, and it’s what the adults in Emilie’s life should have been doing for years but failed at miserably.
A tweet from Dr. Ruth Ben-Ghiat last night:
“Protecting criminals is the purpose of an authoritarian party.”
Think about that … and the multitude of authoritarian “Christian” leaders and their orgs.
@ruthbenghiat is the researcher and writer of the book; “Strongmen”.
Their loyalty was to #1 their leader (not Jesus) and #2 their leader’s org (not the Body of Christ).
From Julie Roys 1.19.2021:
“Certainly, loyalty, when directed toward someone who deserves it, is a virtue. Yet …, it [loyalty] can be a vice.”
The Royce Report is clarifying when loyalty is evil.
You can tell by how she writes that her words are real and raw and she is processing what happened to her. Nothing about this seems fake or exaggerated. I totally believe her. I hope that she has terrific counsel and can be healed from this madness.
As soon as your superiors, in any org, appeal to your loyalty, run!
As soon as your superiors, in any org, appeal to your loyalty, something unethical is happening, has happened, will happen – possibly all three.
(And I’m not going to mention which politician told people who reported to them that he needed their complete loyalty.)
Your loyalty is to the truth, and if you’re a christian, to the one who is the Truth – lying “for Jesus”, directed by liars “for Jesus” – that is the work of the father of lies.
Terrible account. Too many teachers engage in this behavior. There needs to be a no tolerance policy and real consequences for such behavior.
I have seen this kind of thing happen in public schools, nonprofit clubs, sports teams, youth groups, religious schools, and churches.
I am glad this young woman survived. I hope she is doing well.
There are often common practices and themes that exist in these settings that permit situations like this to occur. Each institution should do a self audit to look at how the organization is set up and whether it creates opportunities for improper contact and intimacy.
To be in the inner ring was more important than living righteously in the Kingdom of God. Protecting the reputation of their school and its leaders was more important than doing the right thing in the sight of God.
“Federal Vision: You are in a covenant with God by your baptism.You then maintin your covenant standing with God throughout your life by your good works of obedience and covenant faithfulness.“
++++++++++++++++++
I am? Well yuck.
I’m in a covenant with no one.
My husband and I are a partnership.
That’s how I see my relationship with God, too.
Neither am I.
That’s the way it was intended from the beginning, but then religion got a hold of it, and effed it up. (my opinion)
CMT – I agree. God bless the girl with the white board and knowledge, willing to teach another so she is no longer uninformed. This story was so heartbreaking. What a brave woman she now is.
Women are the stronger of our species.
Emilie,
I’m so sorry that you had to go through these experiences. I pray you are healing and have some way to expose these monsters for what they are . . . pedophiles clothed in lies.
After a while, most organizations take on the personality of its leadership. This is Doug Wilson’s school … think about it.
Emilie,
You deserved to be safe and protected. It is morally shocking how badly you were failed by all those who you should have rightfully been able to count on. None of it was your fault. Thank you for your courage in sharing your story so that others who have tragically also been victimized will find parallels to your story in their story and realize that they are not alone, and hopefully others may be prevented from experiencing what you had to go through.
Jesus was speaking of “unclean” foods here, but it applies to sexual abuse as well:
Mark 7:14-23 Again Jesus called the crowd to him and said, “Listen to me, everyone, and understand this. Nothing outside a person can defile them by going into them. Rather, it is what comes out of a person that defiles them.”
After he had left the crowd and entered the house, his disciples asked him about this parable. “Are you so dull?” he asked. “Don’t you see that nothing that enters a person from the outside can defile them? For it doesn’t go into their heart but into their stomach, and then out of the body.” (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods clean.)
He went on: “What comes out of a person is what defiles them. For it is from within, out of a person’s heart, that evil thoughts come—sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, greed, malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander, arrogance and folly. All these evils come from inside and defile a person.”
Emilie.
You should have been safe and protected. The extent to which so many people did not protect you, but rather protected your abuser is morally shocking and infuriating. Thank you for your courage in telling your story because we know that it will cost you. May other victims of your abuser or others read your story and see parallels to their own and get some measure of healing in realizing that they are not alone. In seeing clearly how you were not at fault, may it help them to be freed of any notion they carry that they are at fault. And may some never be victimized because you told your story.
Jesus was speaking of “unclean” food when he spoke these words, but I believe they apply to sexual assault as well:
Mark 7: 14-23 Again Jesus called the crowd to him and said, “Listen to me, everyone, and understand this. Nothing outside a person can defile them by going into them. Rather, it is what comes out of a person that defiles them.”
After he had left the crowd and entered the house, his disciples asked him about this parable. “Are you so dull?” he asked. “Don’t you see that nothing that enters a person from the outside can defile them? For it doesn’t go into their heart but into their stomach, and then out of the body.” (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods clean.)
He went on: “What comes out of a person is what defiles them. For it is from within, out of a person’s heart, that evil thoughts come—sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, greed, malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander, arrogance and folly. All these evils come from inside and defile a person.”
He defiled only himself.
And (Piper quote) – “he gets the gospel”. Just like Piper’s love for “Driskle’s theology”.
Between “orthodoxy” (believing and teaching the ‘right’ things) and “orthopraxy” (doing the right thing), I’ll take the latter any day.
But this actually should not have to be an “either – or” choice.
There’s a mutual admiration society within New Calvinism where these characters support each other for the good of the movement. After all, Gospel = Calvinism to the NeoCal bunch. They will stand by their man until the potato becomes too hot to handle .. it then becomes “Wilson who?”, “Driscoll who?”, “Mahaney who?” etc. etc.
Elastigirl, As I see it, I AM in a covenant with Jesus, because of His love. As with Abram, the covenant is one way and not conditional. Jesus proclaims His love for me, He initiated my redemption and He maintains the covenant regardless of my good works, obedience or faithfulness. It’s Who He is. Predictably, that inspires more obedient efforts on my part than anything imaginable.
But very CHRISTIAN.
So CHRISTIAN, you’d think it’s (yet another) Litmus Test of Salvation.
Remember Boz T?
In all his years as a prosecutor specializing in CSA/ChoMo cases, he NEVER saw a church that sided with and supported the victim. Always “RALLY ROUND THE CHOMO, BOYZ! GAWD SAITH!” With or without the “PERSECUTION!” card played off the bottom of the deck.
AS OF NOW, THEY NEVER EXISTED.
doubleplusungood ref doubleplusunpersons.
Emilie,
i finally read through to the end. (too much happening in life at the moment)
i believe you, completely.
it just totally sucks. (understatement, but there really are no adequate words)
thank you for your courage in telling your story. silenced no more.
I hope you are somehow able to continually be shedding the foolish nonsense that christian culture is webbed in.
i’m fairly sure God/Jesus/Holy Spirit marvel in disgust at what happens in (their) name.
justice is far too slow, as far as i’m concerned. Please pick up the pace, God.
i believe you have no problem with a plainspoken prayer.
Believer,
i appreciate your comment, Believer.
my friends and family love me unconditionally. no covenant required. the word is a loaded term and unnecessary.
a weird analogy, but it’s sort of like a high-quality piece of meat prepared just right, and covering it with ketchup, assuming it needs it.
or incredible ice cream and covering it with chocolate and caramel and more chocolate and more caramel and sprinkles and oreo cookie crumbs and m&ms and gummy worms…
we just love each other. we feel the gravitas of these precious human beings that we belong to and who belong to us.
my relationship with God is the same.
it’s pure. nothing more could possible be needed.
Emilie, your story is absolutely credible. I have known many instances of this kind of thing and you describe what happens in case after case. I also read Doug Wilson’s “Jim Nance Timeline” here: https://dougwils.com/the-church/a-jim-nance-timeline.html and it sickens me. Yes, Wilson reported him to the police, but even in his online post, he implicates you as covering up, and I quote “This repentance was false, in that he and Emilie were still covering up what they had done.” This man groomed, manipulated, controlled and abused you. You were an innocent high school student who had been sheltered and had absolutely no idea what was happening. You had no idea of how to cover up. And it appears that the shame of the incidents pushed you into freezing and anorexia, and probably nightmares and anxiety attacks.
Wilson is wrong for saying that you were covering it up. He did not treat you as a victim, which he should have, and he should have known better as a man with 40 years in ministry. This makes me sick. Wilson needs to be removed from ministry. Jim should never be allowed to serve in any public capacity for many years, like 10 or 20, maybe never. It’s a shame he wasn’t arrested and proven to be a pedophile.
My heart breaks for you. You will struggle for many years, and maybe your entire life because of this monster. May the Lord of Glory bring this man’s sins down on his own head. May he comfort you, heal you, give you hope in is loving mercy and grace.
Unfortunately, Emilie is no longer a Christian. She was shamed publicly at Capitol Hill (aka Mark Dever’s church) and left the faith.
https://moscowid.net/2020/04/07/another-sexual-abuser-this-one-a-kirk-officer/
I’m with you elastigirl.
How did it get so byzantine and so complicated?
And you know this how?
Simply because she no longer jumps through all the ‘approved’ Christian hoops?
elastigirl,
Well said elastigirl, well said.
Muff Potter,
well,…not that you’re necessarily wanting my answer,
but i’ll share it anyway –
my long-held thoughts are crystallizing into enough clarity to say weird co-dependency. cosmic co-dependency.
institutionalized co-dependency.
i flesh it out more on the liam golligher post.
Because she Hath Uttered Blasphemy against the Mighty ManaGAWD, Head Apostle of the Kirk?
(i.e. The Jerk with the Kirk who’s trying to pull a Rajneeshpuram on Moscow, Idaho.)
Left the faith or left the church? There’s a big difference. Some of the best Christians I know (including many Wartburgers) may not go to church, but they are the Church. Being excommunicated by a church doesn’t mean you have been excluded from the Body of Christ. The religious kingdoms of men are often in conflict with the Kingdom of God.
When the blind man gave testimony of Jesus healing him, the church threw him out but Jesus went looking for him. IMO, Jesus doesn’t go to a lot of churches … why would He?
You can often find the “Church” in America caring for the poor, widows and orphans even if the “church” down the street doesn’t. TWW cares deeply about those abused by the church by being the Church to them. We would all do well to take our Bibles and explore what Church is and what church isn’t, without Scripture being filtered through the theologies of mere men.
That sounds so much like the Jesus Ad Jingle “HE GETS US!” that was all trendy a couple years ago.
Because (just like “This Time We WILL Achieve True Communism!”) then the Right People (guess who?) will be giving the orders from on high.
And after a generation or two living in such a Godly CHRISTIAN Nation, the name “Jesus Christ” will carry the exact same baggage as the name “Adolf Hitler”. And the Cross the same baggage as the Hakenkreuz.
Running this through a Christianese-to-English translator algorithm:
“ME SHEEP! HER GOAT! HAW! HAW! HAW!”
Wilson is wrong, period. If he came up to me claiming “2 by 2 equals 4” I’d make sure to double-check (at least double) the statement.
What he does and how he deals with the weak, or those who – in fact or in his view – disagree with him, invalidates everything else he says, even the things that are not wrong on the surface.
Headless Unicorn Guy,
“the Jesus Ad Jingle “HE GETS US!” that was all trendy a couple years ago”
++++++++++++++++++
..that’s reason enough to opt out of the system.
it’s like living in a pepsi commerical.
elastigirl,
He gets us alright … but do we get Him?
(The bold was done by me.)
I’m not criticizing you, Max, nor any of the other TWW commenters who commented on Bob M’s comment on Emilie Dye no longer being a Christian. 🙂 Bob M was commenting on something Emilie Dye wrote in a post and he’d provided the link in his comment.
From Emilie Dye’s April 7, 2020, post from The Truth About Moscow titled Another Sexual Abuser — This One a Kirk Officer: Same Story Cover Up, Different Victim:
(The bold was done by me.)
https://web.archive.org/web/20230819093241/https://moscowid.net/2020/04/07/another-sexual-abuser-this-one-a-kirk-officer/
Perhaps in the time since Emilie Dye wrote that she’s no longer a Christian, she — like others — has returned to Christianity….kinda-sorta like the kind that’s practiced on TWW. 🙂
These days I call them “Christianese Counterfeits”.
You know, the knockoff T-shirts or posters or jewelry or anything that looks just like some pop-culture T-shirt/whatever on first glance but when you look close is some Christianese buzzword or verse or “Witnessing” that mimics the original’s format and style almost exactly? Like product counterfeiting with just enough changed to Make it CHRISTIAN(TM)?
The example that comes to mind is a Christian Counterfeit T-shirt I saw once during the height of Twilight Mania. Same color, same format, same font, except instead of “Twilight” it read “TheLight”. That sort of thing.
Wouldn’t you leave a faith that did THAT to you?
While Virtue-Signalling how Godly they were?
And how “This Is GOD!” by example?
“Taking the Name of the LORD in Vain” originally meant doing evil (such as was done to Emilie) in the Name of GOD, NOT cussing. Justifying evil as Godly, creating a Shanda fur die Goyim in the process.
When God Said “Thou Shalt Not”, He was saying “You do your own dirty work! Don’t drag ME into it! Not even with a mentionin of Me!” Because then God gets dragged into the Evil as an accessory.
There’s a pattern where the initial reaction is “TAKE YOUR GOD AND SHOVE IT!”, getting as far away from the abusive environment as you can get. It’s a matter of survival.
After things cool over time, you can drift back into the faith – a lower-key, mellower version of the faith. A lot of abuse comes from an all-consuming, high-powered, high-controlling, More On Fire Than Thou RIGHTeous environment.
As you do with anyone known as a Pathological Liar.
They literally CANNOT stop lying!
Even when there’s no possible reason or motive for it!
“Remember… It’s not a lie if YOU believe it!”
— Seinfeld
Max,
i’m sure not.
as i see it, overdependence on the bible has something to do with it.
it’s kind of like learning to ride a bike or learning to swim with a how-to manual stuck in your hand reading it.
no list of rules helps us get to know an invisible supreme being.
just like centrigal force – you don’t learn to physically work with invisible centrifugal force by reading something.
the bible is good and great.
but it’s not a how-to manual, for starters. and you have to put it down for long stretches and learn by doing.
skinned knees, choking, spluttering, thrashing & all. so what.
Max,
WHO gets us? They are no more than theists!
“men were only friends with women because they wanted to sleep with them”
She just defined body theology.
I saw the start of it, from my ex-religion teacher (who left in a hurry)
(when things were done to girls – by a friend of churches – in a TV studio – I thought there was something wrong with the atmosphere on that programme; I later met a traumatised studio cameraman)
(when religion had to be spread by “influencing”)
And we weren’t like that and that includes the agnostics
Why would parents not buy for their children the books of classical authors and scholars second hand / borrow them from libraries.
I’d use a much stronger word than “admiration”.
Only because she said it here:
I would never judge one’s faith, that is between her and God.
https://moscowid.net/2020/04/07/another-sexual-abuser-this-one-a-kirk-officer/
In the linked post, she said this:
“It is a bit out of my norm to write posts over 100 words and definitely not about dirty laundry. But I have decided to explain why I am no longer a Christian. For many this will not come as a surprise; others may mourn the state of my soul; and some will wonder how/why I stuck to my faith for so long.”
If someone else pointed this out, I apologize. I don’t have time to read every post.
Or as Coffee with Jesus (online clipart strip) put it:
“A millstone makes a poor flotation device.”
The Slate article mentioned in passing about Doug Wilson and cigars.
What is it with Real Alpha Males and HUGE Andrew Tate-sized cigars? Lit ONLY with a wooden match? Is it some kind of shtick? Or just a Tribal Recognition Mark?
When YouTube’s Sacred Algorithm spotted some keyword and flooded my inbox with Manosphere videos, that was a recurring theme. I remember one popping up in my feed that began with a Real Alpha Male with sternum-length beard very ostentatiously striking a wooden match to light an Andrew Tate-sized cigar. At which point I know It Could Only Go Downhill From Here.
🙂
Headless Unicorn Guy,
“What is it with Real Alpha Males and HUGE Andrew Tate-sized cigars?”
+++++++++++++++++
-a need for attention
-a need to be special and flaunting it for the
pleasure of making others feel unspecial
-something phallic (of course)