I am a long-time lurker and seldom commenter at TWW. I left a spiritually abusive church after 15 years. They are Mohler/T4G/Gospel Coalition/CBMW sycophants, chock full of male headship and church discipline. I was dug deep in at church for a time, drinking the Kool-Aid and thinking that we were the only church that had Christianity really figured out… leaving has been painful but I am thankful we are out.Reason I write is that I still keep tabs on my former church, and they announced that they were joining a new fellowship of churches… “ACME Fellowship” My first thought was I’m so thankful they’re publishing the members of this group because those would be churches I would absolutely positively avoid.Beyond that, I thought it might be something worth looking into. I’d love to read your take on their requirements for membership in the fellowship.
Knowing that I spent four years of my life in a 9Marx church in Dubai that sounded similar to what our reader endured for fifteen years, Dee thought I may like to look into this “association of churches” that calls themselves ACME. Dee was right.
I am 65 years old and I realize things have changed from my childhood days, so the younger generation may not track with me on this, but the first thing I thought of when I heard the word “ACME” was my favorite Saturday morning cartoon – The Road Runner. I spent many Saturday mornings in front of the television watching Wiley E Coyote attempt to capture the elusive Road Runner. To my delight, Wiley E Coyote was never successful. He made elaborate plans to catch the Road Runner, often with equipment he obtained from ACME, but his plans always backfired.
Why the 9Marx book on top of the anvil? Stay tuned! What follows is a brief look into ACME.
From the ACME website, I found this:
- ACME stands for “Association of Churches for Missions & Evangelism.”
- “ACME exists to unite and mobilize like-minded churches to fund pastors, church planters, missionaries, and other projects around the world.”
- “ACME pools money from its member church to provide grants. These grants will fund like-minded work such as church plants and revitalizations, international missionaries, and other like-minded ministry.”
- “Ideally, ACME churches would give between 2-4 percent of their budget to support this work.”
As you will soon see, many of the churches in the ACME Association are SBC churches. The SBC gives millions of dollars every year to support both North American Missions and International Missions, so why the need for ACME? I believe our reader hit upon the reason when he stated, “I was dug deep in at church for a time, drinking the Kool-Aid and thinking that we were the only church that had Christianity really figured out…”
Come to find out they weren’t the only church that had Christianity really figured out – it would appear ACME consists of a subset of Baptist churches that felt the need to start their own Association of churches that have Christianity figured out!
Our reader said he would love to read our take on their requirements for membership in the ACME fellowship. From the ACME website, here are what member churches affirm.
For starters, this ACME document of Affirmations states “ACME promotes biblical principles that link churches across geographic, ethnic, and denominational lines. ACME Churches adhere to the eight following Member Church Affirmations.” But the second affirmation appears to be counter to linking across denominational lines!
Historic Baptistic Ecclesiology
We are Baptist in our understanding of baptism and polity. This means that we stand with Baptists throughout history in affirming that the Bible teaches that baptism is a personal and public declaration of one’s faith in the Lord Jesus, and therefore its only proper subjects are those who personally and credibly profess faith in him. Likewise, the only proper candidates for membership in a local church are those who have been baptized as believers.
ACME doesn’t seem to want any Presbyterians in their midst. I guess the member churches have officially closed the book on “Together 4 the Gospel.” (Thanks C.J. Mahaney! So long, Ligon Duncan!)
What impressed me from these 8 Affirmations is how closely they follow Mark Dever’s “9 Marks of a Healthy Church.” Below is the table of contents from that book. Compare it to the Affirmations above.
That isn’t the only connection to 9Marx. Take a look at the ACME member churches. Notice the top line of the middle column – Mark Dever’s Capitol Hill Baptist Church. Cheverly Baptist Church is the church where Jonathan Leeman is an elder. River City Baptist is pastored by Matt Smethurst. Smethurst was a Dever intern and then an elder at Greg Gilbert’s Third Avenue Baptist- also listed below. Gilbert is also a former Dever intern. Mount Vernon Baptist is pastored by Aaron Menikoff. Menikoff was one of the original assistant pastors of Mark Dever. I don’t have time or space to go through all of these churches at this time, but there are many with connections to Mark Dever/9Marks.
Now look at ACME’s Board and their ties to Mark Dever/9Marx.
Geoff Chang, Wornall Road Baptist Church, Kansas City, MO – Mark Dever intern – Fall 2006.
Greg Gilbert, Third Avenue Baptist Church, Louisville, KY – Mark Dever intern – Fall 2000.
Omar Johnson, Temple Hills Baptist Church, Temple Hills, MD – Mark Dever Intern -Fall 2017.
Michael Lawrence, Hinson Baptist Church, Portland, OR – 9Marks author of “Conversion:How God Creates a People” -former Associate (8 years) Pastor at Capitol Hill Baptist Church.
Aaron Menikoff, Mount Vernon Baptist Church, Atlanta, GA – Former staff member and elder at Capitol Hill Baptist Church in Washington, D.C. Friend of John Folmar. When Folmar added 6 additional months to his first 6-month sabbatical he made Mount Vernon Baptist Church his home. He preached at Menikoff’s church on at least one occasion.
Jonathan Rourke, Tri-City Bible Church, Vista, CA. – Masters Seminary, assistant pastor at MacArthur’s Grace Church for 9 years. See his 9marx article on church merger https://www.9marks.org/article/when-two-become-one-legal-considerations-of-a-church-merger/ Mahaney imitation at Resolved Conference – https://youtu.be/dE1yKTS3WFY?si=wKhm4YOj8RnbF6Yg
Juan Sanchez, High Pointe Baptist Church, Austin, TX – 9Marx video on church discipline. Authored 9Marx book What Do Deacons Do?” 9Marx video When to Leave a Church. SBTS graduate Masters and PhD. Friend of John Folmar – Folmar had one of his assistants preach at the church in Texas he was pastoring while on sabbatical from Dubai.
ACME’s connections to Mark Dever/Capitol Hill Baptist Church/9Marks should be obvious to all. My question is why was ACME formed? Is this Association preparing to leave the SBC? I doubt it. I go back to the comment above that said they think they are the only ones doing church right. They want to produce new churches in their “image.” It would be interesting to note if these ACME churches have cut their donations to SBC missions.
For some interesting background on SBC missions, I suggest reading this article in SBC Voices written in 2014 by William Thornton.
One last thing. ACME is having a “National Strategy Conference” in May 2024. I would love to hear what is discussed at that 3 day event!
If it’s largely a 9Marks outfit, “SMACME” would be a more appropriate acronym.
Max,
I like it, Max.
Does this have the wrong author name? It seems to say Dee posted it, but it mentions time in Dubai.
Or maybe I’m slow on the uptake, and still recovering from eating a certain amount of turkey yesterday. 🙂
Friend,
It did say Dee, but I have changed it. Thanks.
Todd Wilhelm,
However, I did write the seminal paper on abuse in the church entitled “My, My Dubai!” 🙂
Love the “And we finally got it right” cartoon. I was in a church like that once! Thanks for the Wiley Coyote and Acmecartooon as well.
As a cross-cultural worker of 30 years I am not at all surprised to see how ACME has written their Missions values. SBC, and ACME as a subset, are dead set against church multiplication movements because said movements rely on the Holy Spirit as the main teacher and the priesthood of all believers to make disciples and multiply churches. SBC once had key trainers leading the way in multiplying movements but those trainers got pushed to the edge by the conservative resurgence.
ACME is into top down leadership via their tiny boards of elders and tightly controlled pulpits. Funny thing though, they’ve clearly never understood Jesus method of training disciples.
Jesus didn’t tightly control people . Instead, he sent his disciples out two by two and gave them -gasp- authority to drive out demons, heal people, and preach the good news. Without him! After the resurrection he turned his disciples loose (both men and women, gasp again) with nothing more than the stories and had taught AND the Holy Spirit. Big addition right? There was no New Testament written, just the commands of Jesus and the model he had shown how to release authority in others to make disciples. This was the way of the early church. The Apostle Paul started new churches with Lydia and the Philippian jailer and left them few weeks later. The new believers led their own house churches not Paul!
“We seek to follow the commands in the Bible.” That’s rich. If ACME really did this all authority would be in Jesus, not them.
I believe “all things” because “love believes all things” (ssh – don’t tell them St Paul said that!)
And I believe those when the presbapgational eldstors / pasders (and their C of E plants) aren’t looking. And when I’m trying to relate to other human beings and to encourage other human beings to relate and especially to pray.
Most church “unlife” is about countercontrolling the countercontrolling . . .
(I notice they still don’t imagine some “members” may wish to conscientiously abstain from all Lord’s Tables anyway in discernment of false top-down ecumenism)
I wonder if Smacmeism is the new new apostolic / vineyard / hedonism without the frippery, the same way 1980s cars (political-fixing consumption exemplar ever since we “never had it so good”) dropped the fins-chrome-cokebottles-metallic+vinyl and became euroboxes.
Thou shalt not have a christian unlife except one hour a week.
In England, “grace baptists” and “grace presbyterians” are both the same thing as each other. My guess is it must vary how much of the above applies to them. It is to be hoped, not much!
At our last “home group” we were saying we don’t “know” or don’t “say” “what” we are. Perhaps noncommittal vacuum to imply same old same old monopolism. Or newbies of goodwill, mildly curious what christian life is going to have to be and forgetting to tap into the better traditions that are about to die out with their last, unconventional, over 45.
The tighter they squeeze on the “membership imperative,” the more discerning Christians will slip through their fingers. Dever et al fail to recognize that the “church” includes those who have been abused by the local churches and left. They exclude us from their private covenant meal. They make a cult out of membership by insisting on umbilical (haha, thanks autocorrect!) unbiblical membership oaths, the foremost of which is unconditional submission to church officers. These churches end up being a magnet for sociopathic “me first” narcissist pastors who lack the empathy required of a true church leader. They abuse the “least of these.”
What is a sheep to do? L – Leave. E – Endure and work for change. A – Avoid these fellowships in the first place. S – Spotlight these unhealthy “leaders” and organizations. T – Tell these wolves to repent and find another profession so that they may avoid the harsh judgment awaiting for those who abuse God’s beloved under their “care.”
“If it’s not requiring her to sin, but simply hurting her, then I think she endures verbal abuse for a season, she endures perhaps being smacked” (John Piper)
“… many of the churches in the ACME Association are SBC churches …”
Good … perhaps many more New Calvinist churches within SBC will migrate to ACME and leave the good people of SBC alone (the majority millions are still non-Calvinist in belief and practice).
I too immediately thought of the Saturday AM cartoon.
It kind of sounds a bit like “market saturation through brand diversification”. Slightly different versions to appeal to different market segments, a bit like the old GM approach to the US auto market.
Basically the same machines, under the hood.
—
The word “acme” has connotations of “perfection” or “pinnacle.” This choice of acronym strikes me as “too cute by half.” Perhaps it is a hint of a “we are the best” mentality.
ACME Affirmations:
1. Expositional preaching … we preach only from the ESV version, which is the only one true translation of Scripture, the Bible that Paul carried
2. Historic Baptistic Ecclesiology … reaching all the way back in history to John the Baptist, who was the first Calvinist
3. Reformed Soteriology … the only genuine plan of salvation can be found in reformed churches … in us alone can you be saved
4. Meaningful Membership & Discipline … we guarantee you that when we discipline the spiritual daylights out of our members, we mean it!
5. Elder-Led Congregationalism … our elders (some in their 20s-30s) lead the congregation … you are not required to say or do anything, but drop money in the offering plate
6. One, Unified Assembly … as long as you sit down and shut up, we will live in perfect harmony together
7. Biblically Oriented Public Worship … you will be required to worship reformed theology and Calvinist icons … none of that Jesus stuff you find in other expressions of faith
8. Church-Centered Missions & Evangelism … you won’t find the usual evangelistic stuff here about Jesus and the Cross … we guarantee that everything will be Calvinist-centered, not Christ-centered … our mission is to encourage the spread of reformed theology to the ends of the earth
SMACME once and SMACME again!
The way of the NT church, as established by Jesus.
How Jesus started His Church.
Pastor promoting sadism. DV.
Unreal. Or, surreal.
First we adopted the AMWAY church model in the 80’s. Now sounds like we are supposed to adopt the church model straight out of the mustached Austrian’s book.
Pass.
I would be laughing my head off if the New Calvinists weren’t serious about “we finally got it right” … there is no shortage of arrogance in NeoCal ranks.
The bottom line.
Picture Jesus as authority, and all 18 gifts* of the Holy Spirit on level ground under the authority, care, and anointing of Jesus. That’s Church.
*Rom 12, 1 Cor 12, Eph 4. Gifts given by the Holy Spirit are NEVER paid for by anyone. Paying for a gift of the Holy Spirit is impossible. It’s not a gift and not from the Holy Spirit. The money paid is not going to God. It’s going to someone else.**
**Step One to false church is payment for a gift of the HS. Matthew 21:12–17, Mark 11:15–19, Luke 19:45–48, John 2:13–16. Note: Jesus was very angry about this.
Acts 8: Simon Magus asked Peter and John how much money they wanted for the gift of the Holy Spirit. Peter told Simon Magus: “Your money perish with you, because you thought that the GIFT of God may be purchased with money. You have neither part nor lot in this matter: for your heart is not right in the sight of God. Repent therefore of your wickedness, and pray to God, if perhaps the thought of your heart may be forgiven, for I perceive that you have bold brash bitterness, in the bond of iniquity.”
I wonder if ACME is being formed to give 9Marks affiliates an out from Acts29. In a blind taste test, no one would be able to tell the difference between the two.
So glad we have simpatico folks here who all get it.
Is there a split forming? If so, why? I think there is something going on, for sure.
How come there’s no women on ACME’s board?
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Wayne Grudem can systematically prove that New Calvinism alone holds truth … that all other expressions of Christian faith are counterfeit (90+% of Christendom are non-Calvinist) … so who are we pewpeons to question his theological interpretation of Scripture?! He has studied the sacred text through a 500-year-old theological lens … we only have the Holy Spirit to teach us.
Oh, Lord, let it be!! Perhaps a remnant of born-again believers will rise from the SBC ruins and pursue the Great Commission again, rather than the new reformation.
If you feel at home at WartburgWatch, you certainly would be unhappy at any church that is a part of ACME. I would sincerely encourage you to leave your church if they are looking at becoming a part of ACME. I do not say that facetiously. It’s okay to go elsewhere.
Questions such as this will get you a lunch date with one of the elders, followed by excommunication if you fail to reform to their liking.
Todd/Dee,
I thought I’d read (here previously?) …something akin to a proposed ‘Believer’s Bill of Rights’ in response to domineering, gate-keeper protocols gaining popularity. Wherever I’d read it …I’d love to see it one day promulgated amongst like-minded brethren, as ‘an anecdote’ to oppressive 501(c)(3) fiefdoms.
How liberating it would be, to eventually witness a growing cooperative of fellowships whom empathize with spiritual abuse survivors and enthusiastically embrace the ‘Believer’s Bill of Rights’. The general recognition of standardized ‘collective worship safeguards’, would caution inexperienced newcomers of the legalistic snares, while exposing/demonetizing burdensome yokes of extra-biblical bondage.
Dave,
Thanks for the comment, Dave. I can’t recall an article about Believer’s Bill of Rights on TWW, but Dee has a better memory than me, so maybe she can advise us on this matter. I like what you envision.
I did run across something like what you are advocating in a Roman Catholic article here:
https://icrn.info/working-group-bill-of-rights/
= 9Marxism
“Where else are they going to go? If you’re a theological minded, deeply convictional young evangelical, if you’re committed to the gospel and want to see the nations rejoice in the name of Christ, if you want to see gospel built and structured committed churches, your theology is just going end up basically being Reformed, basically something like this New Calvinism, or you’re going to have to invent some label for what is basically going to be the same thing, there just are not options out there, and that’s something that frustrates some people, but when I’m asked about the New Calvinism — where else are they going to go, who else is going to answer the questions, where else are they going to find the resources they going to need and where else are they going to connect. This is a generation that understands, they want to say the same thing that Paul said, they want to stand with the apostles, they want to stand with old dead people, and they know that they are going to have to, if they are going to preach and teach the truth.” (Al Mohler)
Max,
Wartburgwatchers would, of course, be unhappy with any church that finds Al Mohler’s theological perspective in line with theirs.
Gwen Shamblin claimed only her Heritage Fellowship got it right.
Shall we list all of the One True Church groups, or so they claim?
#14. “Children: Children have the right to be protected from violence and sexual abuse and to receive adequate education and appropriate religious celebrations. Children must be informed about their rights and responsibilities and every individual engaged with any ministry or activity of the Catholic Church has a responsibility to do their part to keep children safe.”
And they all deemphasize the Only Way, the Only Truth, the Only Life … whose name is Jesus! Buyer beware when a mere man elevates ‘his’ way above Christ, when he substitutes a counterfeit for the genuine, when he advances a lie at the expense of Truth.
There was a time when it could have earned you (under the Puritans) the hangman’s noose.
I thank God that the men who founded our Nation, limited the power of religion.
AMEN! Religion in America has just as much power as the pew is willing to give it. Weak men can only control by manipulation, intimidation, and domination (e.g., New Calvinism and its 9Marks manifestations) … they have diminished the authority of Jesus over His Church and substituted an illegitimate authority of their own.
Todd Wilhelm,
Todd,
I appreciate (and referenced) the linked information. While this was encouraging and communicated with a benevolent spirit, the source material that I’m struggling to recall …was crafted from a Protestant view, and was likely posted on a similar abuse survivor forum.
Max,
Max,
Absolutely correct, although the independent fundamental KJV only baptist church I’d attended decades ago in Germany, would make Deveresque fiefdoms appear lackadaisical by comparison!
So I am not the only one to hear “ACME” and hear the “BEEP-BEEP!” of a cartoon roadrunner.
But do you remember Wile E Coyote’s only speaking role, the time he was up against Bugs Bunny?
“WILE E COYOTE. SUPER. GENIUS.” delivered in the moat smug and arrogant voice possible?
AKA BIBLICAL BIBLICAL BIBLILCAL BIBLICAL BIBLICAL BIBLICAL?
With a SCRIPTURE index at the end (for the appropriate verses?).
“IT IS WRITTEN! IT IS WRITTEN! IT IS WRITTEN!” Like a Talibani and his Koran?
(Wonder if their Biblical Manhood treats Biblical Womanhood in the same Biblical way as the Taliban.)
And once more, ChEKA rebrands itself as OGPU which rebrands itself as NKVD which rebrands itself as KGB which rebrands itself as FSB.
Are they meeting in a graveyard at midnight?
All of them the ONLY True Church founded by Jesus Christ in 33 AD?
Every one of them denouncing all the others as Heretics, Apostates, and Satanic Counterfeits?
There must be thousands and thousands (i.e. a Mini-Sagan) of them.
Just like the French Revolution.
The Dantonists denounce and behead all the Hebertists.
The Jacobins denounce and behead all the Dantonists.
The Thermidorians denounce and behead all the Jacobins.
And in the end Napoleon comes in with mop in one hand and sword in the other to clean up the mess.
BIBLICAL Manhood and BIBLICAL Womanhood.
Look at that board.
Those are the Alpha Chads (with a token Tyrone or two).
All you Betas bend the knee and praise them with psaltery, harp, and sackbut.
So did Joseph Smith, Charles Taze Russel, Sun Myung Moon, No David, Jim Jones, and Bo & Peep of Heaven’s Gate.
More Strict Than Thou?
And yet they will claim that their authority is derived from the Bible.
As always, it depends entirely on whose interpretation you (generic you) wanna’ go with.
I prefer my own.
“Touch not mine anointed” is greatly overworked in the American church. In the current condition of the American pulpit, I doubt that many are truly called to that sacred office. They have assumed position, authority, and power over God’s people not divinely granted to them.
a scary bunch indeed!
“ACME is having a “National Strategy Conference” in May 2024”
Watch out America! Here come the Deverites! They will discipline the spiritual daylights out of you if you get in the way of their “healthy church.” Their national strategy is to Calvinize the American church from sea to sea. SMACME is on the move!
They are scary in many ways (generally their legalism) but, for the most part, they reject Calvinism.
Todd, I think I posted this before but if I just compare the “9Marx” table of contents to scripture, I actually like it. It is sad that Dever hung in there with Mahaney and did not send CJ back to CLC for a proper departure. What’s worse than sad is that Dever never came out like Al Mohler and issued a statement on SGM.
I just joined a church back in June and I was glad that the elder that interviewed me asked if I was on “good terms” with the church I left. My dad abandoned my mom with three kids when I was 7 yrs old. My sisters were just five and three. It always left a bad taste in my mouth that he found another church to join with his “girlfriend” shortly after. As I became a teen I felt like he was just “playing church” and he did nothing to support us. I have only seen him once since he left us and he made a sarcastic remark to me about all the years that had passed. I was 30 at the time.
I have been a member and pretty involved at several churches in the same area for the last 35 years. I do know of a handful of people that seem to have been “on the church circuit” for all these years and seem to bring drama with them, create new drama, then leave, and gossip about their previous church at their “new” church. So, I know that what you experienced in Dubai was pure insanity, but I had my reasons for thinking Dever’s book made sense at the time. For what it’s worth I never read it, I am just familiar with it and I more or less already believed those things when I heard about the book. Some friends of mine read it and told me all about it. I did witness how the YRR crowd was being stirred up by it. I was always struck by how that energy could have been used in our church rather than always traveling to conferences and trying to get us all to read books. But I was also a little guilty of buying into some of the hype in the early 2000s.
Dever and Mahaney seem to draw sycophants in skinny jeans to themselves to do their bidding. For all their talk about training the churches that result are anything but biblical. I really wish these men would have confessed their errors and sins to save so many people from being hurt.
TV series. Plot and players galore.
Don’t you mean 1995?
Max,
Scary? Why, yes …that is a befitting description. The church fell just slightly short of the ‘righteousness index’ of Rev Phelps’ Westboro Baptist.
The pastor insisted upon respectable ‘bible standards’ for the congregation dress code: Naturally, only skirts were permitted on women, and I earned a private rebuke for ‘wearing that which pertaineth to a woman’ (a pink button-down shirt).
Max,
Meanwhile, on the streaming service named after our very own Max, is a series exposing the predators within the Independent Fundamental Baptist (IFB) Churches, and the survivors finding justice: “Let Us Prey: A Ministry of Scandals.”
Excellent reporting. Bout time.
Yes, they even show the video of the obscene (and later criminally charged) pastor polishing a rod or some such in the pulpit while preaching. Sicko pastor. IFB. Triple XXX Sunday sermons. NSFW or children.
Ava Aaronson,
Yup! Contemporary Pharisees/scribes: I recall when the ‘rod polishing’ IFB pastor was later unmasked as an adulterous child predator. He was related to the Hyles family, whose own multi-generational pastoral perversions of adultery, grooming and abuse of spiritual authority were eventually exposed.
‘Reverend’ Hyle’s IFB church ran full page advertisements in ‘The Sword of the Lord’ …which prominently boasted of having the ‘largest bus ministry & Sunday schools’ in the nation, and routinely claimed recognition/credit for their weekly self-congratulatory ‘soul-winning’ bodycounts.
Though unsurprising, it remains an ironic tragedy, that those so publicly vocal & smugly confident in their righteous worldly separation, biblical literacy and alleged evangelism successes …are some of the most shameless wolves devouring the flock.
The lack of humility, authentic introspection, confession & repentance …allowed them to ‘lean on their own understanding’ and fall victim to self-delusion. The Protestant ‘Cults of purity’ represent fertile breeding ground for the insidious development of gross pastoral sin …due to their inordinate emphasis on ‘reclaiming biblical leadership’ that blinds oneself.
But to do so would affect their popularity, fan-base, book sales, speaker fees, etc.
Ava Aaronson,
“These people are a stench in my nostrils, an acrid smell that never goes away.” (Isaiah 65:5)
Please know that this is nothing personal about you. 🙂
I have never belonged to a church where anybody interviewed prospective members. Typically I have shown up for Sunday worship, liked the place, chatted with members, met the pastors (if any), and eventually joined… or not. Our current church has occasional coffee hours and classes for potential new members; both are voluntary. Those sessions exist to help new folks learn more—not to gather information about them.
Adding to my list of things to look for if I ever seek a new church: no interview.
Playground Masculinity (probably without the Andrew Tate-sized cigars).
With the corollary from Lenny Bruce’s Masked Man:
“BEWARE THOU OF THE FAG! FAAAAG! FAAAAAAAAAG!”
Playground Masculinity, from the “He-Man Woman Haters Club” of Little Rascals, where not only Gurlz Have Cooties, but anyone/anything that smells Femmie has Cooties.
Smells of “Are You GODLY Enough for Us”?
Guess all the rest of us ordinary types can Have Fun In Hell, Haw Haw Haw.
Polishing-the-Shaft Schaap, heavy breathing/grunting and all.
Have you ever seen a picture of his Church(TM). It’s a Mega. A Little Country Church facade and steeple pasted onto a big-box industrial tilt-up building the size of a Wal-Mart or Lowes. Now doesn’t that just say it all?
Interesting. I had the same thoughts about ACME. Coyote and Road Runner for sure.
I know why this fellowship is being formed. The coming bankruptcy of the SBC. The SBC has made many bad decisions recently. They have spent reserves down from $14m to $6 (I think) in investigations, lawsuits etc. Most of this was done as a massive virtue signal, but it has backfired. Current SBC leadership, which has changed significantly over just the last 5 years, has neither the know how or will to get off the track it is on. So it’s just going down. The SBC will probably sell its building to get cash to pay more money to lawyers.
Dever and other churches are looking for new fellowships and affinity groups where they can give money for missions and not have it mismanaged.
They are also weary of attending denominational meetings where poor decisions are made, primarily to play to the press.
In the past, one might not agree with the stance of SBC leadership, but at least you got the impression they were sincere and they would take their stand come what may.
Recent leadership seems to be anything but brave and principled. Guys like Litton, Greear, and Barber are affable and really want to be liked. Their persona is more that of game show host than crusader.
So, I think churches are casting about for options with their mission dollars.
Dave,
I laughed when I read your comment 🙂 , especially the part about a pink button-down shirt. Years ago, when I worked in a better quality men’s wear store, I got SO tired of the usual stuff like navy and brown blazers and pants with white shirts. At one point, some of the clothing the store carried included other colours and colour combinations. I was so glad to see men wearing something different. 🙂
And I got SO tired of women telling their spouses or sons what to wear.
Thanks for your comment, George. I have a few beefs with the 9 Marks. First, I have said for years, with tongue in cheek, that 9Marx should actually be called 2Marx because of their zealousness in promoting church discipline and church membership above the other 7Marx. Second, you will notice in the table of contents that 7 of the 9Marx are “A Biblical Understanding of,” or “Biblical Church Discipline.” Many things in the Bible are interpreted differently, so whose “Biblical understanding” is 9Marx utilizing? Obviously, Mark Dever’s Biblical understanding. I happen to disagree with a few of Dever’s interpretations. A major one is baptism. I have written about his view of Baptism – in a nutshell, Dever doesn’t believe in baptizing anyone until he is absolutely positive they are solid Christians. This basically means Dever won’t baptize children except in rare circumstances. He believes in not baptizing anyone until they are out from under their parent’s roof, living on their own, and still showing the fruit of a true believer. I don’t think that is Biblical. I also don’t see where signing a membership contract (covenant) is Biblical. I have heard their arguments for this, 2 come to mind – one, the church in ACTS made a list of widows, and two, the elders need to know who the members are because they are responsible for giving an account to God for them. Here is an article I wrote addressing formal church membership.
https://thouarttheman.org/2015/12/13/why-are-the-uae-churches-obsessed-with-formal-church-membership/
Great comment, Oracle. Your explanation makes good sense to me.
Attendance at the Church of the Living God is voluntary … no membership covenants or interviews required. Both are red flags that you’ve stumbled into the wrong place. You will find neither referred to in the New Testament.
researcher,
It would normally seem an oddity that a sermon would so often default reflexively to OT law. Despite obligatory lip service to grace, without their emphasis on quantifiable works …alleged distinctions elevating IBF circles vanish.
While that describes the fundamentalist KJV-only folks, the NeoCal ESV-only leaders talk a lot about grace-this and grace-that without ever offering true Grace to the hearers (His name is Jesus). Cheap grace abounds in the American pulpit in various flavors and the pew ain’t got a clue.
Max,
http://www.ifbsermons.com/#
At the bottom of the linked IBF network page, appears the logo frequently used by IBF churches (black & white silhouette of presumably, Billy Sunday) which interestingly, typifies the organization’s legalistic bent.
The icon (in my eyes) symbolizes the delivery of God’s Word through means of vigorous physical exertion (works). The not-so-subtle messaging is suggestive of an inadequacy found …by just the Word and Spirit.
The imagery chosen to represent the IBF seems counter-intuitive (and somewhat idolatrous), as it elevates and portrays the role of fallible men …as preeminently efficacious.
The illustration seems reminiscent of Moses’ breaking faith with, and subverting God’s will at Meribah. When Moses assumed unauthorized liberties by his confrontational rebuke of the PEOPLE, while simultaneously unleashing physical force with repeated blows impacting the ROCK, he mischaracterized the Shepherd in the presence of his flock.
Theatrical pulpit-pounding physicality and accusatory condemnation are hallmarks of their preferred delivery.
Regarding Neo Calvinist ‘shallow grace’, They are quick to resurrect/reinstate alleged legitimacy of an obsolete OT tithe.
“We know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.” (Galatians 2:16)
I second this comment noting the similarities between ACTS 29 and this new ACME. Maybe since ACTS 29 leaders seem to have a propensity toward public meltdowns, some of the deverites would like to have another option to support the planting of “healthy churches”. I’ve found “healthy churches” to be code for “disciples of John Calvin and Mark Dever”.
No doubt about it. In Mark Dever’s book, non-Calvinist churches would be unhealthy places to be. As Al Mohler said about New Calvinism, where else are those “committed to the gospel” going to go? (Gospel = Calvinism)
In theology perhaps, but it looks like ACME is an organization for the more civilized New Calvinists vs. the more in-your-face uncivilized ACTS 29 bunch (think Mark Driscoll).
I’ve read some theology and philosophy, and am behindhand at referencing, so I can’t point you to sources.
– What was called “Aristotle” wasn’t (it would appal him) it was debased stoicism.
– Augustine comes in three or more segments: one of his bad ones was distortions over most of the sacraments, while a good one IF seen from outside (by real not pretend believers) was his existentialism: hence the folly of taking him as a whole, in “package deal” style. I also suspect he is a dominionist.
– Bavinck is a particularly unfaithful “calvinist”.
– Arminius, who died of an illness, and wasn’t a politician, and whose family had been massacred when he was 15, took the trouble to express calvinism better than his opponents, by recognising logical necessity (a mark of honesty).
My theory is, ACME, which will be badged as somewhere ordinary, where southern baptists can affiliate IF they want to, is where the movers and shakers will do the heavy lifting on the quiet; then eventually an SBC can be set up anew in a “desired” mould, with no need for more than a familiar name for southern baptists to feel at home at. (I was on the inside of a similar scenario.)
Incidentally I read about some “southern baptists” in Illinois – why is that even allowed – is it not “north” enough to keep them out then?
I cannot see that four-letter combination without hearing a Roadrunner going “BEEP! BEEP!”
Another example of Christianese Cluelessness, on the level of Ray Comfort and his Magic Banana.
Headless Unicorn Guy,
Dever & Co. are usually more culturally astute. I suspect this name will be altered going forward.
Oracle at Delphi,
On the contrary, I think it was barefaced! (It made me think of Trotter’s Trading I don’t know why)