The red arc in this infrared image from NASA’s Spitzer Space Telescope is a giant shock wave, created by a speeding star known as Kappa Cassiopeiae. NASA/JPL
“Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction.” Blaise Pascal
I will try something different on Friday because a long-time reader suggested it, and I felt it had merit beyond making my life a bit easier.
(Special thanks to an anonymous reader who called my attention to the following development.)
Although still vacationing with my family, I felt it necessary to post this development in the story of the horrific mess, including sexual abuse, at Highlands Community Church. Here is a link to several stories I wrote about this church from 2020-2022. The church leadership will not be amused by this post since they appear to have an aversion to reports of this disaster appearing on social media, especially blogs.
The amount of information in this report is almost overwhelming. I cannot express my admiration for GRACE’s detailed examination of the issues. Two former posts at TWW gave an inkling of the problem. The first, {Updated}What a Mess! Highlands Community Church, Renton, WA, Lost Three Pastors (Two Due to Abusive Behavior) and Finds Itself in Crisis Mode. Finally, They Hired GRACE. One pastor, Derek Nelson, was accused of sexual behavior with multiple adults. I believe little information was given to the church surrounding this admission. Another pastor, Jesse Campbell, was fired for a DUI and supposedly not telling the truth about the incident. Another pastor, Nick Delgado, resigned over the Elder Board’s actions or inactions.
At the time, I believed the entire elder board, including pastors, should resign due to the lack of oversight and inaction. Little did I know how poorly this group acted regarding Derek Nelson’s sexual abuse. The inevitable happened. As they decided to get GRACE involved, one victim sued and received a settlement, and another apparently initiated a lawsuit. Good. I hope they got large settlements. It also appeared the elders all resigned when I wrote this post.
Eventually, GRACE was able to finish up with their investigation. Today, the entire investigation was made available to members of the church. I am so glad to be able to present to you another well-done GRACE report.
It is long but incredibly well-written. I suggest that anyone concerned about sexual abuse read this report as if it were a book, telling an incredible story of secretive abuse, concealed pain, deliberately ignored flamboyant grooming, (I believe more than one person spotted this bizarre behavior,) brave victims, an evil abuser, a lying drunk, and clueless elders and pastors.
The report centers around two victims, both of whom were staff members. For one, the abuse began when he was a teen in the student ministry. For another, it happened when he joined the staff at 19. The abuser, Derek Nelson, targeted teen boys and young men. Nelson was the shining star of HCCC, and it appears that he was so crucial to the ministry that his behavior with teen boys was considered a means to an end for a successful ministry. The only problem was that Nelson had no use for girls and women. However, due to the extreme complementarian nature of the ministry, the lack of attention to women was not considered problematic. After all, Nelson was raising up men for the ministry of the church.
I will point out just a few portions of the report. I want to discuss more, but it would get too long. So instead, I will try to discuss some aspects of this report later.
Nelson shared beds with minors while grooming the leadership to look the other way.
Bottom line: Any male leader who shares beds with minors should be suspected of abuse.
However, reports suggest that over time, HCC leadership failed to ensure safety by failing to act on concerns about Nelson held by many in the HCC community. While reports suggest that Nelson groomed the community of HCC, the administrative environment allowed for Nelson’s maintained spiritual authority over staff and children despite knowledge of Nelson’s sharing ofbeds with minors, bathing in the hot tub with minors while the minors were unclothed, photographing minors while they were only wearing underwear, spending time alone with minors, and providing certain minors with special gifts or trips. HCC leadership, under theinfluence of the authority, control, talent, and drive of Nelson, enabled Nelson to a high position of authority in which his conduct was unaddressed.
Nelson’s apology is not an apology which may mean he is not sorry.
Nelson does not sound contrite, nor does he say he is sorry for the pain and suffering of his victims. Instead, he is more concerned about disgusting media and blog attacks. Perhaps he is worried that the publicity might prevent him from getting another job that would put him in contact with young men.
Nelson’s statement to the congregation admits to “choices and hidden sin,” but does not offer an apology to the reported victims or other ownership to his actions. Nelson also demonstrated a lack of ownership in his email to GRACE, “I have not found it beneficial to ‘publicly’ defend myself against misinformation, disgusting social media and blog attacks and a one sidednarrative. I have focused on taking personal responsibility for what is true whenever possible, working on me, my relationship with God, and my family.”171
Current leaders may not acknowledge responsibility for their actions that caused pain.
Apologies must be specific.” I am sorry for what I did and did not do.” However, I suspect that lawyers for the church may have had a hand in crafting this response.
While several elements of the September 15 letter show potential growth and learning on the partof leadership, some concerns remain. In the introductory paragraphs, they acknowledge the pain “many have experienced.” While it is good to acknowledge the pain, the letter at this point does not acknowledge the role that the actions of people representing HCC played in causing or intensifying that pain. This could be perceived as not accepting responsibility for potential harm, and that is emphasized as the letter says that leadership could have done a better job, rather thanthat they should have done a better job.
Can you imagine one elder saying there was a fine line between discipleship and grooming?
To make matters worse, the same elder said that one of Nelson’s victims was a discipleship success. That elder should be demoted and allowed back in the church after reading some books on grooming and sex abuse. Please tell me he is gone.
Additionally, interviews with several in HCC leadership indicate little remorse by many for how the allegations were handled, and a little shock or regret that Nelson was entrusted by them and reportedly abused his authority. One former elder stated that “there is a fine line between discipleship and grooming.” This statement fails to recognize that the differences betweendiscipleship and grooming are vast and fails to take accountability for the position of leadership the elders elevated Nelson to. Further, the same elder presented one of the reported victims as anexample of a discipleship success by Nelson, after having knowledge that the individual discipled was a reported victim. This concept fails to consider that Nelson’s grooming tactics were wrong, and conveys that Derek’s conduct towards the reported victim was commendablerather than abusive. Obviously, grooming is designed to appear as healthy, normal attentiontowards the victim. However, its purposes are manipulative and abusive. To suggest a fine line separates proper discipleship from grooming is to miss the whole point of both discipleship and grooming.
Could this complementarian church have overlooked how they treated women as “second-class” citizens of the church?
By the way, I oppose any group that works with students to emphasize the “popular kids.” Jesus chose fishermen and tax collectors as his followers. Pilate’s BFF was not in the group.
Witnesses spoke of the collaboration of Nelson with an “in-crowd” of young boys. This dynamic contributed to a feeling reported by women in the community, who said Nelson reinforced thechurch’s larger culture of females being “second class citizens in the kingdom of heaven.”
Nelson’s position in the church made him impervious to complaints.
How many churches have that person who “gets away” with whatever? I remember a pastor in my former SBC church who said he wouldn’t let “anyone attack my boys.” But, of course, those boys were functioning as pastors and protected from complaints about things like blowing off sexual abuse in the student program. The entire pastor and elder board were downright “untouchable.” That meant they would fight against a complaint instead of investigating the complaint.
Further, as previously mentioned, Nelson’s level of authority and impermeability to complaints produced an environment in which collaboration on matters of sexual misconduct was not had,and left unaddressed. Leadership at HCC must collaborate with each other, recognizing that no one leader will have all the wisdom or all the skills needed to effectively respond to misconduct.
How scary is this? Nelson was in charge of the abuse prevention training!
Never forget that a smart, charismatic, hardworking leader may conceal something evil. We are all sinners, and some may be abusers. This guy was in charge of receiving any such reports.
One former volunteer remarked that Nelson taught the abuse prevention training (which included sexual and physical abuse) that HCC provided for youth workers and understood that all reportswould go through Nelson. The volunteer noted that he/she did not become aware of any abuse (other than the present reports after they were disclosed) but would not have felt comfortable ingoing to the lead pastor if a concern about abuse had arisen.82
I went back and looked at the report. I could keep this post going on and on. Please feel free to point out things that jumped out at you. I am so grateful for groups like GRACE that wade into confusing, shark-infested waters to get at the truth.
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
seems that ‘the Church’ itself has become a feeding ground for sharks . . .
so the truth of this requires that the Church take responsibility for the protection of the innocent from predators
how this is done needs oversight and the involvement of the law and the court systems, but it also needs for the Church to examine WHY it has not ‘acted’ in the face of evidence sooner . . .
was it ‘pride’? or was it an attempt to ‘conceal’ the discovery of evil so as to ‘save face’, albeit with the sacrifice of innocents in the process?
at some point, the Church sacrificed the concept of ‘sanctuary’ (refuge) for those in peril;
and became known in the world of predators as a ‘feeding ground’
and that was a bad day for the Church’s witness to Christ
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
Sigh
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
Thanks for posting this, Dee. Keep on enjoying your much needed vacation.
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
What jumped out at me ~~~
David Koresh, reincarnated!!!
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
Dee: I would suggest an edit.
“Bottom line: Any male leader who shares beds with minors should be suspected of abuse.” Should read “any leader.” I am a mom and I would not allow an adult youth worker of any gender to share a bed with my child. There’s just no good reason for that.
But good night, what a horrible mess. A fine line between discipleship and grooming, my eye. How fine is the line between the shepherd and the wolf?
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
CMT,
It may appear, on the outside, to be a fine line, but I don’t think it is very fine at all. I think it is more like a chasm.
The problem is seeing through the smoke screen and being able to recognize that something is off.
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
“Can you imagine one elder saying there was a fine line between discipleship and grooming?”
?!!! The dear elder obviously doesn’t know what Christian discipleship is!
“Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything that I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.” (Matthew 28:19-20)
No grooming fine line that I see.
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
CMT said it right, a horrible mess. Unfortunately, I doubt that the responsible elders and pastors will repent. A few months will go by, and they will find new church homes in which to serve. And no one will do a background check or look for articles. Sigh.
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
“Nelson was in charge of the abuse prevention training!”
Talk about hiding in plain sight!
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
How fine is the line between the shepherd and the wolf?
CMT,
Seems like HCC has a whole pack of wolves… hungry ones at that!
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
Wolves in shepherd’s clothing.
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
The fact that evangelicals can’t tell the difference between discipleship and grooming speaks volumes.
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
“It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt.” (Mark Twain)
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
The sex abuse of minors by adults is a felony in all fifty States.
How come there are no charges filed?
Please (dee) keep us apprised.
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
Paul D.,
The things done in the name of religion.. and the people that just follow…..double sigh…
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
I don’t know which bothers me worse … false shepherds or the sheep which follow them. Sheep (the animal) are actually extremely intelligent … sheep (church members) are not that smart/discerning on average.
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
Max,
Yea
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
HCC leadership failed to ensure safety by failing to act on concerns about Nelson held by many in the HCC community.
I don’t understand.
Why didn’t the concerned members just leave?
Why did they tolerate being blown off?
We’re they that hypnotized?
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
the same elder said that one of Nelson’s victims was a discipleship success.
So, is he saying that sexually abusing young people is good as long as it is done for the glory of God, to advance his kingdom???
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
(Bold done by me.)
Good point, CMT.
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
I couldn’t bear to read the report, so perhaps the answer is herein…Why are these “pastors” not in jail?
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
As I was reading your comment, Christiane, the thought crossed my mind….
For those places (states, provinces, countries, etc.) that still allow people to go to the church and claim sanctuary in the church, stay in the church, and are safe from the law….what happens if someone in the church is an abuser or a predator?
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
Like others, a fine line between discipleship and abuse?! Seriously! They bought that crock of crap. Discipleship is not done in just your underwear, nor is it done in a hot tub. And all reporting of abuse should go straight to the pastor? No! That person should be making a police report. Oh sheep, open your eyes. We left a church where a new pastor just came in and is driving the train to full control. The leadership is just sitting on their hands.
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
Perfect position to scope out potential targets and head off any investigation or suspicion.
You always want control of the Investigation and Enforcement; that’s why so many Megapastor/Superapostles hire off-duty cops for creampuff security jobs and/or get themselves on the “cop” side of the Blue dividing line by becoming police chaplains. ALways best to have the local authorities who could cramp your style securely in your pocket.
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
Channeling Benny Hinn, “TOUCH NOT MINE ANOINTED!”
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
When their Spiritual Discernment continually mistakes Donald Trump for Jesus Christ, why should ANYONE trust them as Beacons of Truth?
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
Don’t forget Jim Jones’ sexual proclivities towards his staff and flock.
And Bhagwan Rajneesh.
And a certain Joshua Elijah Creffeld (AKA “Prophet Joshua of the Church of the Bride of Christ”) in Oregon and Washington from 1902-1906 who probably “scored” more than both the above.
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
Indeed! And why are church members still there?!
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
Muff Potter,
-police reports have been made but are unlikely to be pursued.
-one of the victims was made to sign off saying they would not pursue Derek civilly. One of the parameters for getting any insurance money was having to forfeit their right to pursue Derek. The victims felt they had no other choice under pressured mediation but to sign and walk away defeated, belittled, twisted, and attacked all day by HCC insurance during mediation.
-Staff were told to not speak to the lawyers or help with insurance claims. So they did not come forward to verify any of the stories. Then it is the victim’s voice vs Derek’s voice. Imagine the painful position the victims were in to be abused and then still have to defend by themselves their story, alone, without backup, without anyone seeking justice with them, people just yelling from the side for justice, without compassionate care or tangible support, just people from a far with pity but never compassion.
Bottom line – When churches defend themselves, they defend the abuser every time and every time churches defend themselves they revictimize the victims.
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
Hi folks. I’m not a psychologist but it seems clear to me that a person who could ruthlessly molest boys while playing the character of a godly leader, even to the point of teaching the abuse prevention program while knowing he himself is a sexual predator, most likely has a personality disorder like narcissism or psychopathy. As such, they would feel zero shame or remorse and the likelihood of getting a sincere apology from them is zero. As to the other church leaders who willingly overlooked this, they are not much better than him, and the church members who put up with all of this sickness need to get away from church long enough to clear their heads, but they probably don’t realize that they are free to do so, so they just try not to “gossip” and keep pretending everything is fine. It’s really a whole building full of pretenders isn’t it? Along with a few naive babes in the woods.
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
Yes. Charade? Masquerade?
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
SiteSeer,
I think your assessment of the whole mess at HCC (from pulpit to pew) is right on. Unfortunately, such places are scattered all across the American landscape. It’s just too darn easy for deceivers to slip into a church given the poor spiritual condition of it; the hedge is down. Jude talked about them even in his day:
“For certain people have crept in unnoticed [just as if they were sneaking in by a side door]. They are ungodly persons whose condemnation was predicted long ago, for they distort the grace of our God into decadence and immoral freedom [viewing it as an opportunity to do whatever they want], and deny and disown our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.” (Jude 1:4 AMP)
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
HGAG ORDER + HUSH MONEY
(But then, can you expect anything else from CHRISTIANS these days?)
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
http://storage.cloversites.com/highlandscommunitychurch/documents/5-15.12%20Draft%20Bylaws.pdf
Requirements for Membership
Section A – Admission
The Board of Elders appoints new members to the congregation.
The church follows an established process for the appointment of new members. Members are appointed upon the following terms:
1. One must be born again by the Spirit of God according to John 3:3-7 and Romans 10:9-10. Prospective members must show by their new life in Christ, demonstrated by their actions and confessions, that old things have passed away and all things have become new, and that they are willing to abide by the teachings of Christ and the Apostles in the Gospels and Epistles.
2. A new member must agree to accept and abide by the provisions of these Bylaws and the Statement of Faith (Article II).
Section B – Membership Responsibilities
1. Conduct. Each member of the church is expected to attend its services, to work for its building up, and to guard its good name and that of the elders, pastoral staff, and each individual member; to give of him or herself and his or her means for the work of the church; and to submit to the authority of the Board of Elders according to the Scriptures. Hebrews 10:25; Romans 12:10; 1 Corinthians 16:2; 2 Corinthians 9:7; Romans 12:1-2; 1 Thessalonians 5:12-13; and Hebrews 13:17.
2. Discipline. All cases involving members and regular attenders will be dealt with in accordance with Matthew 18:15-20, not forgetting Galatians 6:1 and 1 Corinthians 10:12. Final discipline is the responsibility of the Board of Elders.
3. Attitude. Considering the many denominational backgrounds of our community church, we wish to stress the importance of the main fundamental doctrines as being absolutely necessary and to be understanding in minor differences that so often are merely differences in terminology or custom.
4. Resolution of Disputes between Members of the Church. In accordance with 1 Corinthians 6:1-8, any unresolved dispute arising between members of the church will be submitted for final resolution by the saints through spiritually qualified designees appointed by the Board of Elders.
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
Meanwhile, Jesse Campbell has moved on. Nary a mention of the unpleasantness in his bio on the website of his new church:
“Dr. Jesse Campbell was ordained and licensed by Heritage Baptist Church in 2008. Jesse is the author of I’m A Christian – Now What?, 365 Devos for Guys: Man Up to Your Faith, and What it Means to Be A Christian for the B&H Publishing Group. Formerly, Jesse was the Brand Manager and a contributing writer for LifeWay’s Explore the Bible and Lead Pastor of Highlands Community Church with campuses in Renton and Kent, Washington. Jesse’s articles have appeared in Facts & Trends, Outreach, Boundless, LifeWay.com, and more.”
“Jesse earned his doctorate from The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, his Master of Divinity from New Orleans Baptist Theological Seminary, and his bachelor’s degree in Percussion Performance from the Florida State University. He teaches the Bible in a mostly expository approach that is infused with humorous personal stories, accessible intellectual demand, and deeply engaging challenge. He has taught at special events in several countries including The Moody Pastors Conference and the Northwest Ministry Conference.“
Meanwhile, another Campbell is minding the store to a degree on the youth side:
“Jessi Campbell volunteers as our Kids Ministry Director. She leads our Elementary and Preschool Ministry teams and helps with our Redemption Kids Jam music ministry. With degrees in Elementary Education and Psychology, Jessi has been serving in Kids Ministry and Nursery care for over twenty years; having published Bible study curricula for LifeWay Christian resources.”
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
There’s this:
https://www.redemptionwashington.com/try-us
Superimposed over a picture of that appears to be this church “plant“ meeting place — AMC Factoria 8, about 10 miles from Renton — are the following words:
“B e r e d e e m e d w i t h u s .
“Pastor Pastor Jesse Campbell knows what it is like to fail and then be torn down further by Christians. Thankfully, the gospel is true. Thankfully, repentance matters. As you search “churches near me,” give the movies a chance. Come and be redeemed with us.”
“And then be torn down further by Christians”?!? Really? This is on the “Try Us” section of their website?
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
And what might be next but a call to put someone in a position of power and authority over things spiritual and financial, a secure income along the lines with what a fired pastor might’ve been accustomed to before, as well as control of tangible assets paid for by other people — potentially with the incurring of debt by others? Of course, it might not be that at all, right?
https://www.redemptionwashington.com/revival
“The Revival Project” is name (sp) we have given to our building campaign because our vision is for revival. Whether the building providing the physical home to our spiritual family is new construction, repurposed commercial space, or a revitalized church property; that building will be a necessary step in the direction of our vision for revival. So, the building itself is not the vision. Revival is. Hence, we are giving sacrificially to a building campaign named “The Revival Project!””
Oh wow, this could be totally different than what I might’ve conceived what was going on, having observed this over and over and over and over and over. Someone who is “planting“ a church – – let alone a pastor with a degree from the seminary – – has a vision!!! He might’ve been shown something, and the vision might have to do with – – wait for it – – revival!!
If a purported vision from a church-planting seminarian didn’t invariably come with tangible assets and sacrificial giving towards that end being put in the hands of the vision caster, wouldn’t that be something.
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
There’s this:
https://www.redemptionwashington.com/try-us
Superimposed over a picture of that appears to be this church “plant“ meeting place — AMC Factoria 8, about 10 miles from Renton — are the following words:
“B e r e d e e m e d w i t h u s .
“Pastor Pastor Jesse Campbell knows what it is like to fail and then be torn down further by Christians. Thankfully, the gospel is true. Thankfully, repentance matters. As you search “churches near me,” give the movies a chance. Come and be redeemed with us.”
“And then be torn down further by Christians”?!? Really? This is on the “Try Us” section of their website?
And what might be next but a call to put someone in a position of power and authority over things spiritual and financial, a secure income along the lines with what a fired pastor might’ve been accustomed to before, as well as control of tangible assets paid for by other people — potentially with the incurring of debt by others? Of course, it might not be that at all, right?
https://www.redemptionwashington.com/revival
“The Revival Project” is name (sp) we have given to our building campaign because our vision is for revival. Whether the building providing the physical home to our spiritual family is new construction, repurposed commercial space, or a revitalized church property; that building will be a necessary step in the direction of our vision for revival. So, the building itself is not the vision. Revival is. Hence, we are giving sacrificially to a building campaign named “The Revival Project!””
Oh wow, this could be totally different than what I might’ve conceived what was going on, having observed this over and over and over and over and over. Someone who is “planting“ a church – – let alone a pastor with a degree from the seminary – – has a vision!!! He might’ve been shown something, and the vision might have to do with – – wait for it – – revival!!
If a purported vision from a church-planting seminarian didn’t invariably come with tangible assets and sacrificial giving towards that end being put in the hands of the vision caster, wouldn’t that be something.
What would a “vision” be without a brochure?
https://www.redemptionwashington.com/_files/ugd/d793ce_bab15832ea0744b9898612934a2ad0b6.pdf
Under ‘The Redemption Story section, we don’t read about how “Pastor Jesse Campbell“ was purportedly “torn down further by Christians.” It talks about three church plants being shut down in Bellevue (though one might think they might still have more than one evangelical church standing in the general area), but that in what seems an all-too-familiar modern church / seminarian patois, “there was this group of crazy people rallying around an audacious and stubborn vision for God to bring revival.“
If you need more detail about the “audacious and stubborn vision“, it just so happens that according to the brochure: “Pastor Jesse and his wife Jessi knew God had called them to plan a church in the heart of lostness”, and soon after, “the foundation for an audaciously evangelistic and ravenously biblical church plant began.”
Words fail – – although evidently, not on the part of the brochure writer. How many boxes do we have checked here on what arguably has become a trope in church “planting” of essentially, “build your leaders an asset”? “Vision”? Check. Not just the pastor but his wife in on the operations as well as the“vision”, with a familiar invocation of purporting to know that God had called them — with the calling potentially including heading and running a church, perhaps from the top-down? Check. (Where exactly they might’ve been shown anything by his reportedly being fired from the other church doesn’t seem covered in the brochure.)
They talk about having a student ministry that is disproportionate and large for a church plant their size. I wonder how many of those involved are looking at the history of him and his wife as far as what happened at their previous church in their student ministry.
In the where we are now section, it sounds like they might’ve been on a buying spree for “necessary start of purchases“, with “our trailer” being “nearly completely stocked with all that a church needs to offer musically excellent worship and professional quality media.”
This brings to mind that I was just able to meet with a pastor from overseas who runs an orphanage and widow’s home. He spent part of his visit to the states obtaining donated clothes for them so they each could have something new to them to replace an old outfit. Yes, I said outfit in the singular, because sometimes it is apparently difficult for them to maintain having more than one with the wear and tear of the weather and other conditions. Lamentably, I don’t have sufficient detail as to whether the worship in which they and the church participate has professional quality media, nor how they are stocked on the musical excellence front. But enough about that, let’s get back to where Campbell — I mean, Pastor Jesse, is now:
“We have hired staff and stocked our reserves to cover costs in the event of a financial downturn. We have identified leaders through whom we could secure a mortgage allowing us to purchase property. We have worked with Ministry Advance to solidify financial goals that align with Pastor Jesse‘s vision to secure the future of The Redemption Church. Now we are rallying the troops to the cause.”
You’ll have to pardon me, but my mind wandered again. One other essential thing that the visiting pastor we met was able to obtain was a package of supplemental water filters given the ongoing challenges for clean water to avoid pesky annoyances like outbreaks of cholera that I recall have sent some of them to the hospital. Maybe “the troops“ here would have done better to give the visiting pastor a card from Ministry Advance? Per its website: “Get started today by creating a customized church coaching plan for fundraising, a building campaign, or whatever the next step in fulfilling your God-given vision.”
Better yet, maybe we should’ve asked the pastor to see if he could come up with a donation towards the purported vision of ‘Pastor Jesse’. Maybe he could send over the widows and orphans to be interns and put in some elbow grease towards fulfilling said vision. I mean, think of all the lost in the greater Seattle area and how building acquisition may factor into changing all that? Surely the widows and orphans can appreciate the stakes and the importance of following the vision and obeying the call from these two people — with their reputations in ministry preceding them — with the evident claim of that call originating not merely from them but from someplace else in particular.
Who wouldn’t be moved by the following, accompanied by a picture of a drum set with the Redemption Church logo on it?
“We need a facility other than Pastor Jesse‘s house to capacitate ministry throughout the week and for numerous outreach ministries. Raising $1,045,000 would allow us to meet all of our annual budgeted operating expenses for two years AND allow us to purchase property. Let’s give together and watch God light up the darkness in our area!”
Like clockwork, the closer comes with an expressed need, not just a request that could involve doing without. No, to do all the things that they say are so necessary, they “need a facility”, just like One church “plant“ after another “needs“. Never mind that there might be plenty of local churches offering similar stated doctrine that also can offer a facility – – just perhaps not a position or high enough paying job for certain staff, perhaps? What kind of due diligence is being done when they lead into this brochure talking about how three other church plants in Bellevue permanently shut down, but one being run by people from a church with their history (just a few miles down the road) is worth pouring in a cool million here on top of whatever was already spent?
How about we volunteer our services by reading 1 Timothy 3 and Titus 1 to any and all people who would think of throwing money towards this, ‘cuz “ravenously biblical”? Then how about somebody read them the HCC GRACE report? Might that light up some darkness in the area? Or maybe not: their Commitment Tracker (not that I necessarily would have full confidence in what is presented) is $950,657, or almost all the way there.
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
What would a “vision” be without a brochure?
https://www.redemptionwashington.com/_files/ugd/d793ce_bab15832ea0744b9898612934a2ad0b6.pdf
Under ‘The Redemption Story section, we don’t read about how “Pastor Jesse Campbell“ was purportedly “torn down further by Christians.” It talks about three church plants being shut down in Bellevue (though one might think they might still have more than one evangelical church standing in the general area), but that in what seems an all-too-familiar modern church / seminarian patois, “there was this group of crazy people rallying around an audacious and stubborn vision for God to bring revival.“
If you need more detail about the “audacious and stubborn vision“, it just so happens that according to the brochure: “Pastor Jesse and his wife Jessi knew God had called them to plan a church in the heart of lostness”, and soon after, “the foundation for an audaciously evangelistic and ravenously biblical church plant began.”
Words fail – – although evidently, not on the part of the brochure writer. How many boxes do we have checked here on what arguably has become a trope in church “planting” of essentially, “build your leaders an asset”? “Vision”? Check. Not just the pastor but his wife in on the operations as well as the“vision”, with a familiar invocation of purporting to know that God had called them — with the calling potentially including heading and running a church, perhaps from the top-down? Check. (Where exactly they might’ve been shown anything by his reportedly being fired from the other church doesn’t seem covered in the brochure.)
They talk about having a student ministry that is disproportionate and large for a church plant their size. I wonder how many of those involved are looking at the history of him and his wife as far as what happened at their previous church in their student ministry.
In the where we are now section, it sounds like they might’ve been on a buying spree for “necessary start of purchases“, with “our trailer” being “nearly completely stocked with all that a church needs to offer musically excellent worship and professional quality media.”
This brings to mind that I was just able to meet with a pastor from overseas who runs an orphanage and widow’s home. He spent part of his visit to the states obtaining donated clothes for them so they each could have something new to them to replace an old outfit. Yes, I said outfit in the singular, because sometimes it is apparently difficult for them to maintain having more than one with the wear and tear of the weather and other conditions. Lamentably, I don’t have sufficient detail as to whether the worship in which they and the church participate has professional quality media, nor how they are stocked on the musical excellence front. But enough about that, let’s get back to where Campbell — I mean, Pastor Jesse, is now:
“We have hired staff and stocked our reserves to cover costs in the event of a financial downturn. We have identified leaders through whom we could secure a mortgage allowing us to purchase property. We have worked with Ministry Advance to solidify financial goals that align with Pastor Jesse‘s vision to secure the future of The Redemption Church. Now we are rallying the troops to the cause.”
You’ll have to pardon me, but my mind wandered again. One other essential thing that the visiting pastor we met was able to obtain was a package of supplemental water filters given the ongoing challenges for clean water to avoid pesky annoyances like outbreaks of cholera that I recall have sent some of them to the hospital. Maybe “the troops“ here would have done better to give the visiting pastor a card from Ministry Advance? Per its website: “Get started today by creating a customized church coaching plan for fundraising, a building campaign, or whatever the next step in fulfilling your God-given vision.”
Better yet, maybe we should’ve asked the pastor to see if he could come up with a donation towards the purported vision of ‘Pastor Jesse’. Maybe he could send over the widows and orphans to be interns and put in some elbow grease towards fulfilling said vision. I mean, think of all the lost in the greater Seattle area and how building acquisition may factor into changing all that? Surely the widows and orphans can appreciate the stakes and the importance of following the vision and obeying the call from these two people — with their reputations in ministry preceding them — with the evident claim of that call originating not merely from them but from someplace else in particular.
Who wouldn’t be moved by the following, accompanied by a picture of a drum set with the Redemption Church logo on it?
“We need a facility other than Pastor Jesse‘s house to capacitate ministry throughout the week and for numerous outreach ministries. Raising $1,045,000 would allow us to meet all of our annual budgeted operating expenses for two years AND allow us to purchase property. Let’s give together and watch God light up the darkness in our area!”
Like clockwork, the closer comes with an expressed need, not just a request that could involve doing without. No, to do all the things that they say are so necessary, they “need a facility”, just like One church “plant“ after another “needs“. Never mind that there might be plenty of local churches offering similar stated doctrine that also can offer a facility – – just perhaps not a position or high enough paying job for certain staff, perhaps? What kind of due diligence is being done when they lead into this brochure talking about how three other church plants in Bellevue permanently shut down, but one being run by people from a church with their history (just a few miles down the road) is worth pouring in a cool million here on top of whatever was already spent?
How about we volunteer our services by reading 1 Timothy 3 and Titus 1 to any and all people who would think of throwing money towards this, ‘cuz “ravenously biblical”? Then how about somebody read them the HCC GRACE report? Might that light up some darkness in the area? Or maybe not: their Commitment Tracker (not that I necessarily would have full confidence in what is presented) is $950,657, or almost all the way there.
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
OT In The News
Missing: $700,000 of missions giving from Florida’s Baptists. Narrative is that a state denominational bureaucrat complied with an email’s instructions that direct funds transfers to the North American Mission Board be sent to a different account?!
https://thebaptistpaper.org/florida-baptist-convention-continues-efforts-to-recover-700000-in-stolen-funds/
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
back to Derek Nelson, his bios from Wayback’s archives of the church’s website:
from 2001
https://web.archive.org/web/20010613143149/http://www.highlandscc.org:80/staff_bios.asp
“Derek Nelson – Children’s Pastor
Derek has been at HCC since 1995, and working in the role of Children’s Ministries Pastor since June 1998. He has also directed Evidence Youth Choir at HCC. Before coming to Highlands, he served on staff in the Children’s Ministries at First Baptist Church of Bothell, directed summer camps in Northern California, and was an elementary school teacher in the Bellevue School District. Derek has a BA in History, with a minor in Elementary Education, and a Graduate Certificate in Bible from Multnomah Biblical Seminary.
Derek loves music, skiing, and eating out…”
from 2009
https://web.archive.org/web/20090408015611/http://www.highlandscc.org/AboutUs/OurStaff/120237.aspx
“Pastor Derek leads the Children’s & Student Ministries Team, overseeing the ministries to our children and youth at Highlands. Derek joined the staff of Highlands Community Church in 1995. Derek enjoys equipping leaders to teach children and students to know God personally, passionately grow in their walk with Him, and purposefully go and serve Him as their Lord and Savior. Derek has had the opportunity to travel in the US and internationally numerous times to teach training conferences for church leaders in children’s and youth ministries. Derek earned his degree in History and Elementary Education from SPU [Seattle Pacific University] and completed his graduate work at Multnomah Biblical Seminary in Theology. Derek loves serving the Lord with such a great staff team, skiing, frequent trips to Disneyland, eating out, and spending time with his amazing wife…”
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
“Before coming to Highlands, he served on staff in the Children’s Ministries at First Baptist Church of Bothell”
Southern Baptist, now using trendy name ‘Crosspointe Church’:
https://churches.sbc.net/church/first-baptist-church-of-bothell-washington-inc-dba-crosspointe-church/
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
Ava Aaronson,
Unfortunately, it seems true of allot of the US culture these days…. It definitely goes beyond Evangelicalism..
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
All those Bible Zip Codes – I’m already suspicious.
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
In the words of the prophet Alfred Yankovic:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GyV_UG60dD4
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
Obviously, HCC leaders failed that requirement.
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
Oopsie, mistakes were made (sending 700 K cuz email sed so); barn door closing subcommittee; we good?
https://thebaptistpaper.org/updated-florida-baptist-convention-reports-incident-of-financial-fraud/
“In addition, the State Board of Missions Administrative and Finance committees have formed a sub-committee to provide oversight to the audit investigation and recommended next steps based on the audit’s findings.”
“As you can imagine, our convention staff and state board of missions is distraught over this loss of financial resources.”
“Please do not hesitate to reach out to us if you have any questions.”
Uh…
You say this was “an incident”. This is the first that this only happened once, and the incident involves $700,000 or so total?
What levels of training and protocols were in place that made sure that any lump sum payment over $500 were transferred through message impervious to such wire fraud/phishing scams?
Were there any escalators in terms of sums higher than $500 that would kick in additional safeguards and verification redundancies and requirements? Did they kick in at $1000? $10,000? $50,000? $100,000? $500,000? $750,000?
Is there only one person in charge of making the call to send out sums above $500, or do such procedures go through other officials?
What are the thresholds for what would involve more than just one person?
What professional certifications and continuing education does the person (or persons) responsible hold?
Have the person/persons gone through any training that includes updates on wire fraud issues, such as those that are mandated in professional organizations such as finance, real estate, etc.?
Did anyone at any time just tell the person/persons maybe don’t respond with hundreds of thousands of dollars to an incoming email, whether from a Nigerian prince or elsewhere?
Is anyone going to discuss the ethical issues of just dipping into reserves versus actively looking at trimming potentially bloated budgets, including from the personnel side so that it’s not primarily the winsomely sheared sheep taking the financial hit but the staff that should bear stewardship responsibility?
Could that start with austerity measures for some of the North American mission board “church plants“ until the sum is restored?
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
Max,
What do you mean? I thought sleeping with people you are discipling is key?? Wow, I guess I “missed out” (obviously being extremely sarcastic)
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
Disturbing to see his influence over so much of this in retrospect:
“Northwest Ministry Conference 2020
https://northwestministryconference.sched.com/event/YHlS/inviting-millennials-into-leadership
“Derek Nelson Highlands Community Church Executive Pastor | Ministries & Leadership Development Renton, WA Websitehighlandscc.org
“With 30 years of ministry experience, Derek is dedicated to seeing the next generation find and follow Jesus and be equipped to lead well.
“Sessions Speakers
Inviting Millennials into Leadership Derek Nelson
“Life Changing Small Groups for Students Derek Nelson
“What Your Team Wishes You Knew Derek Nelson
Also:
https://www.vanderbloemen.com/news/highlands-community-church-hires-student-pastor
“Pastor of Students and Children, Derek Nelson mentioned that Executive Search Consultant, “Jay understood the criteria and how the candidates would fit into our mold…we wouldn’t have found Josh without you guys.” Highlands community Church noted that Vanderbloemen brought the most value in proactive hunting.“
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
The Law doesn’t give a rat’s a$$ about ‘church agreements’ signed by its adherents.
If there has indeed been sex abuse of minors (felonies) by adults, the Law will pursue prosecution with vigor.
I predict that this whole imbroglio with the Protestant Mafia will eventually blow up like a satchel of C-4, just like it did with those awful Catholics (sarcasm) in Boston.
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
As one HCC elder said “there is a fine line between discipleship and grooming … the same elder presented one of the reported victims as an example of a discipleship success by Nelson, after having knowledge that the individual discipled was a reported victim.”
Obviously, the qualification bar isn’t very high at HCC for the office of elder.
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
Researcher,
The concept of ‘sanctuary’ in the Church is an ancient one but even today we have them IN THE CHURCH which call the most vile people ‘the anointed of God’ and seek to give them the ‘protection’ of ‘the Church’ to cover over terrible treatment of others.
The ancient ways faced autocratic rulers in a time when ‘trial by jury’ had not yet evolved, so the idea of someone coming into a ‘sanctuary’, a ‘holy place’ was seen as a ‘time out’, or a place of shelter from abuse. That someone would use it as a means of escaping ‘justice’ likely wasn’t as prevalent as today when so many of ‘the faithful’ excuse based on their own human interpretations of bible stories (am thinking of the King Cyrus/Trump association among fundamentalists) . . .
I think you might benefit from this link for exploring the concept of ‘sanctuary’ in all its history and forms.
As far as predators, they have NO safety from the judgment of the God Who forbids the harm of innocents . . . they may ‘hide out’ under the cover of respectability in the Church,
but the believers among them know they would be better if they were thrown into the sea with a heavy weight around their necks . . . (so much for fundamentalist ‘bible’ manipulation in service to trumpism and trump’s buddies who preyed on innocents)
Try this link for some interesting clarification and as a jumping-off point for discussion:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanctuary
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
This is really interesting. I wonder what was going on here?
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
Hmm interesting. What are your thoughts on this? Seems fishy
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
Austin Henderson,
I was wondering the same thing.
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
A group is a sanctuary, however, there’s Light (safe houses, senior centers, teams, the Body of Christ, Hebrews 12.1) and there’s the Dark Side (gangs, the Mob, cartels, cults).
God called Abraham out, to be a separate people. Light.
However, wherever man/woman goes, we bring our human hearts and the potential for good or evil, so later Joseph’s brothers – from the inner circle called out circumcised separated set-apart-for-God-group sold their brother to Egypt. The Dark Side.
The NT constantly addresses the Dark Side entering into the church and what to do about it until Jesus comes back in Revelation. As a group walking in the Light, address the Dark Side slipping in or be infiltrated. Fact. Neglect and plunge into the abyss of evil. The church in this report is case-in-point.
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
It’s human to seek to belong.
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
Paul D.,
“The fact that evangelicals can’t tell the difference between discipleship and grooming speaks volumes.”
+++++++++++++++
as i see it, what is revealed is that the church leadership industry from seminaries on down to living room bible studies has been orchestrated to promote pastoral control, power and wealth.
the priority is not what is true, right, just, or honorable.
such institutions are mutually dependent on the survival of the pastor industry for their own financial viability and legacy.
the brass tacks at the bottom of the pot:
–a ‘biblical’ church leader is an autocrat.
–a ‘biblical’ church member is a passive compliant obedient lemming.
this is the business plan concocted by people of great influence and sufficient wealth sitting at conference tables in shadowy conference rooms.
and how to both appeal to egos and scare up neuroses by linking these things to ‘godly’ and ‘sin’.
the message trickles down to seminary course content, dialogue, sermons, books, blog posts, and finally to twitter tweets.
.
.
just like madison avenue decides what we all end up wearing because that’s what’s on the clothes racks in the stores.
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
elastigirl,
and oh, the opportunism.
Rightnow Media, et al
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
Nancy2(aka Kevlar),
“We’re they that hypnotized?”
++++++++++
i imagine, yes.
in addition to not wanting to upset the applecart of what met their needs & wants.
(a nice smiling community to belong to, where you earn Godpoints to help things go your way throughout the week)
eh, cynical is mostly just being realistic.
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
It ain’t just clothes racks.
The Avenue decides what’s on the shelves in the supermarket too.
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
Christiane,
Thank you for the Wikipedia link….I hadn’t realized there are so many meanings for the terms “sanctuary” or “claiming sanctuary”.
Perhaps I was less than clear in my comment….I was referring to people (not abusive pastors, predators, etc.) who claimed sanctuary in the church for things such as being potentially wrongfully deported (they might be waiting for their court case to be heard, etc.).
The Wikipedia definition that comes closest to what I was thinking is:
(I also know of some people who have “claimed sanctuary” — I can’t find the actual term — in an airport for lengthy periods of time….possibly due to national or international laws?)
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
I’m skeptical of any Bible resource platform that is endorsed by the SBC rightnow … NeoCal indoctrination waiting to happen
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
Muff Potter,
“It ain’t just clothes racks.
The Avenue decides what’s on the shelves in the supermarket too.”
+++++++++++++++++++++
depressing… but not enough to be a homesteader and grow my own food.
consumer power, though…. like, i only see cage-free eggs, now. that’s encouraging.
as i see it.
(well, if professional christians can redefine words for their convenience, I imagine professional chicken people can redefine “cage”, too)
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
Hey, there’s always alternatives to Christianity.
While Christianity battles Darwin these folks are cashing in on religion.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-65549975
People will shop around.
Now I have no desire to trade one dogma for another “Goodnight Baphomet” is just so darned cute!
So if everyone is done with church and evangelism is washed up, what happens next? Jesus is silent on the matter (yes I know there’s the bible, but Jesus doesn’t seem to be very chatty these last two thousand years).
Should Christianity try? Or is it all washed up?
What should “evangelism” look like going forward if the church (any church) isn’t up to the task?
I’m out of the biz, but how do you bring people back?
Serious topic that I have some ideas on but I’m interested in any thoughts.
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
Jack,
“Should Christianity try? Or is it all washed up?”
++++++++++++++++++++
i think faithers would get lonely. they’d find a way to get together with others.
i imagine it would be to do simple things.
have a meal, small-talk, pray, maybe read some bible and chat about it.
there’s also a lot of opportunism with the concept of religion. someones will always be trying to build an empire / empires.
perhaps some of these can be good — pooling resources and expertise to accomplish something exponentially great for the welfare of others.
i tend to think most will be self-serving & scuzzy.
just rambling, here
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
You’re right, the big players serve themselves with private jets which ferry them to various venues across the country where they pan-handle to big crowds.
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
This is exactly what we were doing, in the outskirts of all denominations, till 1983 when the dominionists took over.
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
Does “dominionist” mean the same thing on Merlin’s Isle of Gramarye as it does here in the States?
Here it refers to the politicized Christians Commanded by God to Take Over and Force a CHRISTIAN Nation By Any Means Necessary, i.e. The Handmaid’s Tale as how-to manual.
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
Headless Unicorn Guy,
Bentley and Wagner ceremonially instituted world dominionism in 2008 but the materialistic body theologians have been talking about it since 1983 and the general level of prayers by leaders of congregations for the world around us and the youth of our nations has been getting cut back since 1946.
– Supplicating to Almighty * = seen by elders as ineffective
– Button pushing (the system of William James and Bismarck) = seen by elders as effective
* The disciples started the church the moment after Ascension when they prayed in fear. That’s what ministry is. Any famous occurrences after that are samples and not mannerisms to be copied.
The lake of the Lady of the Lake (St Martin’s Mere, now dry; Merlyn = Martin) was west of Wigan. Merlyn may have been a ruler as well as bard / seer, and was an ally of Arthur. Arthur’s main court was at Dunbarton. His close allies were also in Cumbria and elsewhere.
Emrys (of an earlier generation than Arthur and a cousin – removed – of St Ambrose) held the Saxon armies back at Ba(y)don SE of Swindon for 50 years.
England was an amalgam of classes of “Britons” and incomers, and a patchwork of languages for several hundred years.
The sword from the stone is a widespread metaphor for metallurgy.
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
It is here, no less draconian for being in semi-disguise