“You are called to biblical integrity no matter who you are.”
-Denny Burk, May 8, 2021“The temptation of the age is to look good without being good.”
– Brennan Manning“And what sort of lives do these people, who pose as being moral, lead themselves? My dear fellow, you forget that we are in the native land of the hypocrite.”
― The Picture of Dorian Gray
Allow me to take you back in time to demonstrate the hypocrisy of the leadership of the Council on Biblical Manhood and Womanhood.
On January 22, 2017, Pastor Matt Chandler announced to his Village People that he and his fellow elders had fired Anthony Moore, the lead pastor at their Fort Worth campus.
Within months Cedarville University President Thomas White hired Anthony Moore. The two were close friends from the days they were both at SWBTS.
In the Spring of 2020, I and Julie Roys were advised of the White hiring of Anthony Moore at Cedarville University and we both started researching and writing about the story. A firestorm ensued and on April 24, 2020, Julie Roys wrote:
“Cedarville University yesterday fired professor, Dr. Anthony Moore, for sexual misconduct. The action comes three years after Cedarville learned that Moore had secretly videotaped a male youth pastor showering in Moore’s home on multiple occasions.”
White had invented a narrative that he hired Moore because he was told by Village Church leaders that Moore had a momentary lapse of judgment and had only taken one or two videos of his assistant pastor showering. (In my opinion, one video would be sufficient cause to not hire Moore.) When White learned of more videos taken over a long period, so his story goes, he fired Anthony Moore.
Julie Roys countered White’s false narrative in an article she published on May 1, 2020. She wrote, in part:
“Cedarville University President Thomas White maintains that he was told an “incomplete narrative” about Anthony Moore—the man he hired in 2017 after Moore had been fired by The Village Church (TVC) for “grievous sexual immoral actions.”
However, today an elder at TVC’s Fort Worth campus disputed White’s narrative. He also named two other leaders, a pastor and a professor, whom he says were fully informed about Moore in 2017.
White fired Moore last Friday, claiming that he had just learned that Moore had recorded at least five videos over a span of at least five months.
However, today, Jeff Jamison, an elder at TVC’s Fort Worth campus, told me that the elders clearly communicated with White in 2017 that Moore’s sin “wasn’t a one-time lapse in judgment on Anthony’s part.” Jamison added that the “lapse in judgment” was Moore’s “false narrative” that the TVC elders “corrected regularly” in multiple conversations with both Dr. White and Cedarville Professor Dr. Jason Lee.
The Village Church added that the elders told Cedarville that they were okay with Moore having a private research job at the school, but also communicated that they believed “Moore was not fit for ministry of any kind.”
Below is an Oscar-award-worthy apology issued by Thomas White.
On August 21, 2020, Julie Roys published an analysis of White’s apology written by Julia Dahl. In part, Dahl wrote:
“Cedarville University President Thomas White this week offered an apology to returning students and others for his grievous actions that led to a major scandal at the school. But was this an authentic apology, or just an attempt at image repair?
As an image repair analyst, I’ve discovered that leaders in crisis often craft persuasive statements to engender sympathy. Yet when analyzed, these statements fall far short of biblical repentance, and often mislead by employing image repair techniques like minimizing, bolstering, and reverse victimization.
Unfortunately, Dr. White’s recent apology is no different.
In his recent “apology” during a school chapel—similar to White’s “apology” that was the subject of a recent podcast—White is scant on details, both of the injury and the specifics of his apology.
He never mentions that he had hired an admitted sexual predator, Dr. Anthony Moore, and had withheld that information from the Cedarville community. He never admits that he lied and covered up for what he had done once he was exposed.”
An independent investigation was called for and the results were released to the Cedarville University Board of Trustees. On June 23, 2020, the Board of Trustees voted to retain White as President of Cedarville University. Two of the Trustees, Danny Akin, and Mark Vroegop could not live with this decision and promptly resigned from the Board.
Soon after Akin’s resignation from the Cedarville University Board of Trustees, I noticed that Thomas White had been removed from the Board of Directors at CBMW (Council of Biblical Manhood and Womanhood). Danny Akin is a member of the Board of Directors and I guessed he was likely influential in having White removed.
Here are screenshots of the CBMW Board of Directors from June 2020 and July 2020. You will notice White is on the Board in the June screenshot but removed from the Board in the July screenshot.
Thanks to one of our alert readers, I was advised that Thomas White was once again on the Board of Directors of the CBMW. Below is a screenshot taken from The Way Back Machine confirming White is indeed back on the Board. The save previous to this one was dated November 2022 and White did not appear on the Board at that time.
You may rightly wonder what is going on here. The only explanation I have is my explanation for everything in the Celebrity Club of the Evangelical Industrial Complex, that is, we are dealing with a group of men that have each other’s backs. Above all, they protect their institutions because their various para-church organizations and conferences are an excellent revenue stream. Their desire to protect their institutions trumps their desire to do the right thing, the ethical thing, and as a result, they show themselves to be blatant hypocrites to the watching world.
I also note that Cedarville University pays for a full page add in the CBMW’s quarterly publication called “eikon.” Money talks. Money trumps ethics.
Last week I wrote emails to both Danny Akin and Denny Burk asking some pointed questions about the process CBMW utilizes in appointing a man to the Board of Directors. Neither has responded.
I copied the following from the History section of Wikipedia’s information on the CBMW:
The Council on Biblical Manhood and Womanhood was organized in 1987. At a 1986 meeting of the Evangelical Theological Society (ETS), Wayne Grudem gave a speech on “Manhood and Womanhood in Biblical and Theological Perspectives” in which he invited delegates to join “a new organization dedicated to upholding both equality and differences between men and women in marriage and the church.” This was followed by a meeting in Dallas with Grudem, John Piper, Wayne House, and others. A subsequent meeting was held in Danvers, Massachusetts; at this meeting, the Danvers Statement on Biblical Manhood and Womanhood was finalized. A full-page advertisement containing the full Danvers Statement was published in Christianity Today in January 1989.
Founders of the CBMW coined the term “complementarianism” in 1988.
Let’s be clear on the character of Wayne Grudem and John Piper, shall we?
Both men made the trip to Louisville, KY in 2013 to publicly display their support and endorsement of C.J. Mahaney and Sovereign Grace “in the face of unjust accusations.” Neither has ever retracted their support. Score: C.J. Mahaney/Sovereign Grace 2 – Victims of sexual abuse 0.
My recommendation? Don’t give them your money.
“You may rightly wonder what is going on here. The only explanation I have is my explanation for everything in the Celebrity Club of the Evangelical Industrial Complex, that is, we are dealing with a group of men that have each other’s backs.“
But why focus on something like when you can focus on “revival“! How could anything be going wrong when their president asserts they’re feeling the “presence“ of God on campus, or that God is “moving” and “doing something special“ there?
https://www1.cbn.com/cbnnews/us/2023/february/revival-spreads-to-cedarville-and-samford-universities-god-is-working-on-our-campus
“Cedarville University President Thomas White shared five short video clips of the revival at his school Tuesday night. “Tonight a large number of students gathered again to pray, read Scripture, testimonies, and to worship Jesus for about two hours! We had 2 more students saved tonight. Tomorrow night we are sending our students out to other Universities to share the Gospel,” he wrote. “Keep praying for wisdom and a genuine movement of the Lord! The last video is from students who stayed around to keep worshipping. They were still there when I left about 11 pm!”
“In an email to the Cedarville faculty and staff earlier this week, White wrote, “We are so thankful for how God is working on our campus in recent days.” The university’s president explained it all began on Monday during Cedarville’s morning campus chapel service while he led the students in studying Psalm 86 in the Bible’s Old Testament. White then described what happened next.
“I planned for us to pray as an application of David crying out to God and then sing a song before continuing with the sermon. During that song, the first person to come to the altar to pray was a faculty member. He was followed by students, one after another. As I walked back up to the stage, I knew the sermon was over and God was moving,” he said.
“”Before long, the altar was packed, with students down some of the aisles. We stayed even after the time for chapel had ended. We don’t do this very often because we value the important work that takes place in classrooms across campus at 11 a.m., but as I looked down at students with tears of repentance dripping from their cheeks while other students put arms around them to pray, I knew we needed to stay. God was doing something special.”
“On Tuesday morning in chapel, when the speaker gave the invitation for students to “come to the altar and lay down any idols preventing them from moving closer to God,” and many responded to the gospel call, according to White. Students, staff and faculty agreed to meet together that evening.
“White said Tuesday evening’s service began at a slower pace. “We prayed through the Lord’s prayer. We sang one song, heard a few testimonies, and prayed through the Beatitudes. In the first thirty minutes, I think we only sang that one song. I expected students might leave with less music, but not only did they stay, the numbers grew,” he said. “At the beginning of our next song, I saw a young lady with tears streaming down her cheeks come to the altar on my left. Then another in the middle and another to the right came. I’m not a charismatic, but I felt the presence of the Lord in the room. It was palpable.”
“”Some students continued to linger, praying and singing. I noticed a young lady with a beaming smile waiting to talk to me. Her first words were, ‘I was saved tonight.’ That makes four reported professions of faith this week. Praise God!” White continued. Instead of having chapel on Wednesday night, Cedarville students who were called to do so, took the gospel message to share at other colleges and universities.”
It seems these church scandals always boil down to one or all of the following: money (greed), abuse of power (authority), & sexual impropriety (immorality).
Wash, rinse, repeat.
Wayne Grudem! talk about ‘another gospel’
so relieved to hear that his ‘re-arrangement’ of the Doctrine of the Holy Trinity has been mostly rejected
imagine attempting to use Our Lord as ‘an example’ to shore up Grudem’s ESS ‘theory’
biblical integrity? walking away from the early councils of the whole Church into some kind of man-made gospel built around a structure called ‘complementarianism’? walking away from THE clarification of the Doctrine of the Holy Trinity into some kind of ‘gospel’ more in line with the early Christian heresies ?
and for a long time, Grudem was celebrated until ESS was finally seen for what it is – a departure from what was ‘handed down’ from ancient Church
and what for? to shore up the ‘submission’ of women to men???
integrity to the sacred writings is far more in tune with the truth of Our Lord sending a woman to ‘tell the boyz’ that He had Risen – that honor stands on sacred ground
who are these men who worship ‘manhood’ at the expense of the dignity of women before the Lord ???
“Let’s be clear on the character of Wayne Grudem and John Piper, shall we?
“Both men made the trip to Louisville, KY in 2013 to publicly display their support and endorsement of C.J. Mahaney and Sovereign Grace ‘in the face of unjust accusations.’ Neither has ever retracted their support. Score: C.J. Mahaney/Sovereign Grace 2 – Victims of sexual abuse 0.”
The theobrohood trumps all, apparently. Character? Integrity? Not so much.
These guys must define “Biblical Manhood” differently than me.
If Jesus represents Biblical Manhood, it must mean radical other-centered, sacrificial, self-giving love. It must mean denying self to serve others. It mean must dying to self. It must mean being first to climb the cross.
Do ya think it wounded Grudem’s pride when he realized that both God the Father and God the Son refused to “submit” to him and abide by his interpretation of the Bible?
(I, for one, hope so!)
This a bunch that doesn’t talk much about Jesus. They talk more about themselves and their theological idols than Christ.
JDV,
“Cedarville University’s president Thomas White shared five short videos…”
“the university’s president explained it all…while he led the students…”
“I planned for us to pray….”
“As I walked back to the stage….”
“As I looked down at students….I knew we needed to stay….”
“I saw a young lady with tears streaming down her cheeks….”
“I’m not a charismatic, but I felt the presence of the Lord…”
I, I, I, I….
A suggested antidote: When Narcissism Comes to Church by Chuck DeGroat.
Darlene, you nailed it: “It seems these church scandals always boil down to one or all of the following: money (greed), abuse of power (authority), & sexual impropriety (immorality). Wash, rinse, repeat.” Sigh.
When people discuss this current revival, I mention the 1970 revival at Asbury more than 50 years ago, and express only cautious optimism. Will it bear good fruit? Will it last? Oh boy, was I ever scolded for my skepticism. God, please prove my skepticism wrong.
The discussion on this blog as well as the news about the “Revival” that has started at Asbury College has got me thinking recently. I have formed educated opinions about such things even as someone mentioned the Lakeland one in 2008. My opinions go back to then when a friend was attending a charismatic prayer meeting and I was curious so I went. I stayed for some time because I am a man of prayer and this was different and I was both open to it and skeptical at the same time. The skepticism came from my involvement in a Vineyard church until ’90. That was mostly hype that left me burned out. The openness comes from an inner desire I have had since I was 16 to know Jesus better and walk in His ways as fully as I can.
Soon after starting to attend the Lakeland thing began and they were soon all over it, as the leader scrapes pennies to go anywhere where there is some hyper-charismatic hype going on. Over the course of a year I figured out that this ex drug addict had had a real experience once and then decided to do whatever she needed to make herself have the same experience again. She had switched drugs. The new one was far less expensive and damaging on heart, mind and soul. While there I saw things that I could not explain and reasoned that there is something real underneath it all, but impatience meant that those things were almost drowned out by fake things. But I had to be there awhile to figure that much out. A little real plus a whole lot of hyped up nothing.
Regarding Lakeland, I had the time so I watched every night I could. I watched Todd Bentley lead over a hundred meetings before burning out and disappearing without notice. Red flags went up. He soon separated from his wife and the GOD TV coverage ended. He had burnt out like a bright star going supernova. I then watched the restoration process he went through and the aftermath. With the latest revelation it is evident the man is a bi-sexual who leveraged fame into money to test young interns with a “who wants to be a prostitute tonight?” game. The man is simply sick in a very sexual way but not in the same ways we usually deal with here.
But two ladies in that group soon went to Florida, came back, and laid hands on people there. After that there were some odd signs that there was something to it. My ex contacted me for the first and only time after the divorce. She was testing the waters for reconciliation without apologizing or realizing I was remarried. There were other things too such as my new wife listening to the meetings and having minor pains go away after prayer twice. These things and some others point to the real. At the end of all this I came to my current position of hating pushing supernatural spiritual gifts to the point where the hype and fake drowns out the real. Todd Bentley also went up on my radar and stayed, highlighted by God. Also I dealt with cynicism I had developed before this that I repented of. When I told my pastor, God was all over him the following week convicting him of his own cynicism when all I did was confess. I saw nothing to confront in him, but it was a God thing. So did good come out of Lakeland for me, yes!
So what is my conclusion about the new one going now? That God works with individuals. The celebrities get in the way but sometimes they draw people. The sincere who want the real and are willing to look inside and deal with issues, like I did with cynicism, are the pure in heart who will see God. This is what Jesus plainly said. The ladies in that meeting who became addicted to pumping themselves up on adrenaline with the fake will go and will get what they are looking for: a mountain top fun experience that they will later crash from and likely gain no lasting positive thing out of. The fake, the narcissists, the celebrities will go and try to cash in on an opportunity. They do not care about anything but their own selfishness. They will go and find more followers and cause trouble like seeds planted by the enemy, also as Jesus has plainly said.
Rather or not God really started this new one or not is not an issue for me. The hype will draw some people who need answers, are humble and looking for a personal relationship with God and they will find something in the midst of the chaos. This is because I have found God waiting for us to turn towards Him. What triggers that turning is not what is important. God responds to individuals whom are sincere. This can happen at other places this spreads towards too. Even in spite of leadership as horrible as Tom White or Todd Bentley. My lifetime in the church has proven to me that God works in spite of how horrible leadership usually is, not because of how great it is. He can talk through a donkey. God uses whom He will, even horrible dictators like the Assyrian and Babylonian kings. What is important is to see God as the source and not a man, not any man or woman.
Is Asbury affiliated to the same cults as Cedarville? Or are Cedarville only trying to make them look so?
Michael,
Different streams. I believe Asbury is Wesleyan. Cedarville is SBC Baptist.
Nailed it!
Cedarville is part of the New Calvinist cult … a much different tribe than Asbury.
When genuine revival descends upon a people of God, there is no “I” … no one points to themself … no one takes credit … there are no names raised above the name of Jesus … it’s Christ and Christ alone that brings it and sustains it. Anything else is just a series of meetings manufactured by man.
JDV,
““Cedarville University President Thomas White shared five short video clips of the revival at his school Tuesday night.
“Tonight a large number of students gathered again to pray, read Scripture, testimonies, and to worship Jesus for about two hours!…students who stayed around to keep worshipping. They were still there when I left about 11 pm!”
++++++++++++++++++++++++++
‘revival’…. sounds like….a commodity?
an exciting new product in the Evangelical Industrial Complex.
i can see something unique is happening at this place called Asbury. (leave them alone, every tom, dick and harry-with-a-platform. it’s not about you and has nothing to do with you)
but the description above? sounds like a typical Sunday at my most recent church. we went long.
when I was attending/participating, it was powerful, but simply garden variety. the norm.
i mean, if we really believe what we say we believe, God’s presence (powerfully so) is to be expected.
it’s great that spiritually meaningful things are happening at Cedarville.
but it seems to me that such ‘remarkable’ things are on the cusp of turning into commodities for marketing purposes for institutions.
…and convenient credentials for being on boards of big-name organizations…
For those that keep Lent, Happy Shrove Tuesday! Enjoy those pancakes! We had ours for breakfast, lol. And are not fasting any foods, but fun to celebrate anyway.
Lent always makes me think of an old friend from almost half a century ago. Dear sweet RCC mom of almost a dozen. She fasted 3 things for Lent: cigarettes, until she quit altogether. Diet Pepsi. Loved it so much she would say if she could get away with it she would use it when she brushed her teeth. And negativity. As a mom with that many kids you simply must at times say no, stop that, do this, etc. But for Lent she turned off the tv news, tried her hardest to find a positive way to deal with any situation, and focused only on giving praise where praise was due. She always said evil and the devil work right through Lent, but the best way to defeat them was with good.
To that end, here are a few positives for you: yesterday we saw an early mass of daffodils in full bloom. The cardinals and blue jays are back at the feeders. Cow across the road always drops beautiful calves, and looks like she about to do it again. Neighbor’s hens are laying good again, and we are feasting on the fruits of their labors. Green up is coming! And it has been warm enough lately not to have to keep double layers of heavy drapes closed against the cold. Sunshine and early spring are hard to beat!
Thomas White will have a dadgum “revival” if he has anything to do about it…
There can be no revival without repentance.
Quite the confluence of scheduled and supposedly unscheduled events at Asbury University and Hughes Auditorium in February 2023 that would seem to be advantageous for multiple parties and entities.
https://www.lighthousetrailsresearch.com/blog/?p=35804
Todd Wilhelm,
Max,
I now hear of revivals in places far away from Cedarville and also in several countries including over here. We need to pray (supplicate) that there will be wise and knowledgeable peers and more experienced but insightful christians alongside those benefitting.
In my day when I gained what we used to call “assurance” the calibre of believers available near us was a bit haphazard, hence I and others have hopped from thing to thing . . . I have had to figure out doctrines by night sweating.
Jesus will ask us questions if we didn’t supplicate: don’t assume “someone else will”.
Also that those who periodically seem to attract doubt will be relaxed about it and not want to interfere.
Every Glory Be counts! What people tell me is heart warming.
(The “trick question” I’ll spring on a certain minister soon is, what does he think of Grudem? 😉 )
Biblical Manhood.
Fill as many slots as possible with your Precious Bodily Fluids by Divine Right.
The More the Manly Manlier.
How can you “repent” when You Can Do No Wrong?
By “God Saith!” Divine Right, no less!
Yep. Publicity stunt, all for the greater glory of Thomas White.
Not to mention The Holy Ghost too.
Did Grudem and his colleagues think that folks would not check and do their own homework on The Trinity and find out that what they’re hawking is a steaming pile of horse$|-|it?
Great way of getting out of class!
I completely agree. He needs to go.
Max,
This is strictly my opinion based on what (little) I know. I don’t think the Asbury is a “revival” – technically speaking. I would suggest it is an awakening, a new awareness, or a new understanding, a light turned on, at least, for many students and others there. It may be a new start and last a lifetime for many involved there.
Looking back over my life, there were times when I suddenly had a new awareness or new understanding of God and His presence seemed unusually real and intense. People used to say, “the lights came on.” Those experiences did not have an immediate impact, not an instantaneous revival. But the experiences did result in a lifelong re-evaluation of myself and my beliefs and my core values and purposes, and significant changes at later times in my life. You can call it a life time of continual or at least sporadic repentance. And I have over 70 years of failed baggage which has needed repented of.
I’m sorry that’s very poorly explained. But maybe something like that is starting with many individuals all at once. The effects may not be immediate. But that new light, new awareness of God’s presence and near holiness burns a new desire deep in the heart, which will resurrect sometime in the future. I pray something like that may be happening.
Or as an old time preacher once put it “Glory, Gold, or Girls(or Guys)
http://frombitterwaterstosweet.blogspot.com/2023/02/money-power-and-sex.html
The Council of Biblical Manhood and Womanhood is really the council of dudebros protecting dudebros and has nothing to do with the Bible.
As soon as I heard about Ashbury, I immediately thought the same thing.
……..I wonder if this revival will make it all the way to spring break?
More like an InCel chatroom modded by Alpha Male Andrew Tate.
Mara R,
I can’t decide whether these guys have inferiority complexes they are nursing, or if they are just pure narcissists.
Their demands that women submit to men is bad enough, but it doesn’t seem to be quite enough to satisfy them. Seems like it doesn’t really matter what sins or crimes the men in this “dude bro” cult commit (and yes, I meant “cult”). They think themselves superior and deserving of God-ordained/commanded control over women, children, and anyone below them on the social ladder (their vision of the social ladder).
And, I believe that line of thinking goes far beyond just the men on the Council of CBMW in today’s “Christian” community.
They can’t get the power and control legally, so they try for it in the name of God.
Off topic:
I picked the following link off Dee’s Twitter – this is my equivalent of “re-tweeting”. The link is to a post by Christa Brown, titled Why I’m not engaging with the SBC’s Abuse Reform Implementation Task Force.
I’m posting the link here because I feel it’s very important to spread what Christa Brown has to say – and she says it very well.
https://christabrown.substack.com/p/why-im-not-engaging-with-the-sbcs
researcher,
And here’s an Internet Archived copy of Christa Brown’s post Why I’m not engaging with the SBC’s Abuse Reform Implementation Task Force.
I feel her post is so important I didn’t want it to get “lost” (since links can get broken in any number of ways, for any number of reasons).
https://web.archive.org/web/20230221195217/https://christabrown.substack.com/p/why-im-not-engaging-with-the-sbcs
Why does it have to be one or the other?
It’s probably both.
The church has allowed greedy, power grubbing perverts to become their leaders and spokespersons. It’s time for God’s people to leave these institution, gutting them from the inside.
researcher,
I know when Christ Brown speaks, I listen.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/southern-baptists-oust-saddleback-church-over-woman-pastor/ar-AA17LO4O?ocid=Peregrine&cvid=df3179ebad2c482ba98f35e586495fd5
One more “off topic”.
There goes a chunk of CP money.
Also:
https://www.christianpost.com/voices/is-the-asbury-revival-a-real-revival.html
“According to one of the students I talked to, a few hours later, the president of the seminary sent an email to the students encouraging them to visit the chapel to join the 20 students on what he described as an outpouring of the Holy Spirit. Apparently, 200 students arrived for worship at the chapel soon after, and there has been non-stop worship ever since.“
If that’s the case, combined with everything else, that looks like another shoe drop.
Correct. Asbury is from the Wesleyan Holiness tradition though not formally affiliated with a denomination (but I heard they will be working with the Global Methodist Church), Cedarville is affiliated with the Ohio state convention of SBC churches.
Akin is puzzling me here. He has problems with White being at Cedarville (so much so he resigns from its board), but not with him being on the CBMW board? Huh?
Some news on Ashbury, too.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/revival-at-christian-school-moves-off-campus-after-2-weeks-of-continuous-prayer-overwhelms-ky-town/ar-AA17L07Y?ocid=Peregrine&cvid=aa9e2adb0688467fa4d3eb0ac22b6e7e
Mara,
I like to call it “The men are better than women club.”
Thanks, researcher. She is a persuasive writer – it comes from deep within her.
That didn’t take long. Can I safely assume that Sovereign Grace Church of Louisville will also be ousted, or is covering up sexual abuse still approved in the SBC?
Situational ethics. If you think of the Celebrity Christian leaders as politicians it all makes sense.
I am an Orthodox (Eastern) Christian and we will be observing Lent starting on February 27, the day after Forgiveness Sunday. This time of year helps me to become more sober-minded. Fasting can be a challenge, but it reminds me of all the ways I need to transform into the likeness of Christ.
So the SBC EC meets today and without debate Disfellowships Saddle Back, give Morris Chapman a round of applause. And what did they do about the sexual abuse that has been knowingly gone on for decades–Nothing.
Let’s see how Bart Barber trys to spin this.
Sovereign Grace abides strictly by the teachings and beliefs of both the SBC and the CBMW. Abuse is irrelevant….. not even a blip on the radar unless and until there is an extended, prolonged, public, secular exposure and outcry. So. SG of L will stay. They have done nothing “biblically” wrong.
Saddleback, on the other hand, has committed an unforgivable sin. It has go!
Allowing, nay even encouraging, women to step out of and above their God-ordained subservient roles is a far more egregious sin than simply using the earthly body of a woman against her will for physical pleasure.
They are just women, after all. SNORT!
Am I being too sarcastic?
I like your description – ” a new awakening, a new awareness, a
new understanding, a light turned on.”
The word revival never got through to me. The experiences associated with that term, at least from my perspective, were a lot of hype – theatrical stunts posing as “God moving”. There always seem to be a phony ring to it.
Now, the dark night of the soul is definitely something with which I am familiar. For the past 3 years I have become intimately acquainted with this spiritual phenomenon and it has been heart-wrenching. Only within the last 6 weeks or so have I found myself emerging out of it.
“ The word revival never got through to me.”
Darlene,
To me, revival happens on an individual basis ……. in the heart of one person.
Yes, there can be an individual personal “awakening.” I’ve experienced it in my life. I pray for a national spiritual awakening that will touch the masses.
The difference between Religion and Magick is in Magick the mortal sorcerer is the one in control of the supernatural/spiritual beings and/or forces.
Even if he has to use paid shills?
Headless Unicorn Guy,
Yes, even if he has to use paid shills.
Are some Cedarville students hungry for God? Of course.
Are some repenting of their sins? Undoubtedly.
Jesus said the fields are ripe for harvest and my experience has shown it to be true- not the entire audience, not the entire university, but there are always sincere seekers of God in every crowd.
But White at Cedarville? When I read his extensive “I” laden comments I thought, well, whatever is happening on “his” campus it can’t yet be revival because in real revivals everyone comes under the conviction of God as soon as they enter the meeting room/tent. And so far I hear nothing of White repenting of anything. Not a single tear shed by the man. So no, I’m not buying it yet there’s a real revival at Cedarville
Max,
That is a good prayer Max. I’ve seen people on other blog sites saying they hope what is happening at Asbury comes to their town/state.
My response has been, “So get down on your knees, confess all your sins to God and ask for his forgiveness and cleansing. Then when you get up from prayer produce fruit in keeping with repentance.”
Can you imagine if every person who identifies as Christian would do that today?
Instead it seems everyone is waiting for “it” to come to their town. As though the Kingdom of God requires a special space, event, or “magic moment” led by god’s “holy man”.
Jesus told the woman at the well in Samaria the time was coming, and had come, when people would no longer worship God on a particular mountain, nor in Jerusalem, but would worship in spirit and in truth.
How slow we are to believe him.
Nancy2(aka Kevlar),
Fisher,
There was a time long ago when they would have run a preacher out for calling out slavery as an evil institution.
The same guys would have sworn up and down that slavery is ‘Biblical’.
The same guys appear over and over throughout history.
No, you are not.
Is there any effective way to speak out against what those guys hawk without sarcasm?
I think that those guys will realize one day (most likely privately) that they’ve been on the wrong side of Church history.
Nope.
Matt Chandler’s Village People brings back recollections of chart songs about the YMCA and “In the Navy”. Not that the Village Church would endorse same sex relationships.
“You may rightly wonder what is going on here. The only explanation I have is my explanation for everything in the Celebrity Club of the Evangelical Industrial Complex, that is, we are dealing with a group of men that have each other’s backs. Above all, they protect their institutions because their various para-church organizations and conferences are an excellent revenue stream. Their desire to protect their institutions trumps their desire to do the right thing, the ethical thing, and as a result, they show themselves to be blatant hypocrites to the watching world.”
This explanation is right to the point! I think this is the best explanation about what is going on. Well done Todd!
These men live and thrive in the unreal world of seminary and “scholarly” work. They go to institutions that have the right people teaching. Most of those teachers have unstable beliefs that they developed to get an edge. Be different from the crowd. If the student wants the coveted endorsement, what choice does he have but to tell the professor he agrees in some fashion with the weird teaching of the professor. Get the endorsement, be associated with those in the in crowd, the big names. Not all who go through these institutions are like this. But the vast majority are. It is a sick club. to borrow a phrase, “It’s a big club and you ain’t in it”.
A classic line from comedian George Carlin.
Not openly.
Amen Fisher! We will never see widespread “revival” or “awakening” in America until we are obedient to 2 Chronicles 7:14. If we are to experience forgiveness and healing in the land, then we must first humble ourselves, pray, repent, bear the fruit of repentance, and seek God afresh. You can’t flip a switch and have revival personally or corporately until you earn the privilege through actions to receive it.
a related piece in the news today: https://abcnews.go.com/US/video/beth-moore-journey-after-parting-southern-baptist-convention-97345127
Max,
In my opinion, such a revival would also challenge the authorities in the church and some ideas in society. The leaders’ delight in these campus happenings makes me wonder. (I do believe that many or most student participants are sincere.)
Jesus upset people, right? He didn’t just come to get them to quit personal peccadilloes. He threatened everything from private bigotry to imperial injustice.
A revival – a genuine one – would return authority to Jesus and out of the hands of mere men. IMO, the authority and influence of Jesus are waning in the American church … it’s high time to reverse that.
Todd Wilhelm,
Yes. I think George Carlin was a little more salty than this quote though.
Ken A,
The above comment is Comment number 69 on this thread.
Appropriate considering the subject matter.
Secret Privilege of Pastoral/Elder/Apostle Rank?
The Asbury one has been moved off on purpose, to call such elements’ bluff as well as suit townspeople better. An unknown chaplain was involved and didn’t think he was doing well.
(He is even from C&MA – we found love in a hopeless place. Amends for what was done to the younger Ravi.)
Great way to avoid mandatory chapel attendance if everybody and his brother is showing up.
Lovely description! Here, the daffodils are usually coming up in late February. However, at the moment, they are covered with nearly a foot of snow!
Spring will come. And hopefully the unusually heavy snow in the mountains this year will help the drought, the farmers and the forests. Fire seasons have been frightening the last few years.
When Dr. White stepped off the plane from his vacation, he was met with a campus stabbing and a re~hashing of the school’s history of Title IV violations, not an organic Asbury-style revival. Given the opportunity, which narrative of your campus would you rather have running the news cycle? He wasn’t going to miss an opportunity to rewrite the narrative
CU is being very careful not to call it a “revival”, but perhaps a “unique outpouring of the presence of God…”. Regardless, CU survived the news cycle.
Revival.
Like “Spontaneous People’s Demonstrations” in the old USSR or North Korea?
Paige Patterson trained him well!
Great conversation about what’s happening at Asbury from Premier Unbelievable with Justin Brierley.
It’s quite informative.
https://youtu.be/yk3EE3wxO0c
Either way, you might soon be reading about them in the mainstream news:
CDC says 20,000 people may have been exposed to measles at Asbury University religious revival
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/asbury-university-revival-potential-measles-exposure-20000-people/
FYI measles is considered THE most contagious of airborne viruses. Exposure of 20000 guarantees a Superspreader Event. Hope they’ve all been vaccinated.
Wait a minute – “JESUS is My Vaccine!” Just like all those Social Media trails at Herman Cain Awards subreddit.