“Hubble Views a Stellar Duo in Orion Nebula” NASA
“The most courageous act is still to think for yourself. Aloud.” ―
Things are hopping over at the Duggar camp recently. While Anna drags her kids along to visit Josh Duggar in a dangerous Texas prison, Jinger Duggar Vuolo announced to her parents that she is rejecting the Gothard-based, rules-heavy fundamentalism of her upbringing. I began writing about the Duggars in the early days of this blog. Needless to say, I was not excited about the rules-based, denim skirt-wearing clan. In fact, I believed that this situation would turn out bad. I was heavily criticized by “real” Christians who thought the Duggar clan was just plain “adorable’ and that I was “judgmental.” Given the fact that I believed, as do most Christians, that all men and women are both saints and sinners, I knew that something would erupt over time.
As I wrote about them, my posts were picked up by a group known as “Free Jinger.” They use this link when their website is down.
They appeared to appreciate my jaundiced view of this bizarre family. They named their group after Jinger Duggar, who they believed was the rebel of the family. It appears they were smarter than most people. Today, this post is about an increasingly, yet still kind of, and sort of, free Jinger.
The Roys Report posted Abuse Survivor ‘Proud’ of Duggar Daughter for Publicly Rejecting Gothard Fundamentalism.
Vuolo, 29, is the sixth child in the Duggar family that starred in TLC’s “19 Kids and Counting” and its follow-up series, “Counting On.” The Duggars have strongly promoted Gothard’s Institute in Basic Life Principles (IBLP) and other programs.
But Vuolo told People Magazine that Gothard’s teaching was “based in fear, superstition” and left “damaging” effects. She said her efforts to disentangle what the Bible teaches from what Gothard taught drove her to write her forthcoming book, “Becoming Free Indeed.”
Here is the video of the People Magazine interview in which she says she seeks to disentangle herself from manmade rules. Instead, she wants to follow what the Bible says. She states she no longer feels that Gothard is a Biblically faithful teacher and should be disqualified.
In this following interview from ET Exclusive, Jinger speaks about her concerns for her brother’s victims and believes that justice has been served. She says she was raised in a fear-based faith, and she claims she was afraid she would die if she disobeyed. She discussed her previous concerns about “over-the-top “modesty. She recounts that she spoke to her parents about how she was changing. It seemed like she didn’t get an overwhelmingly positive response. Unlike her life lived on camera, she and her husband are raising their children “off the camera.”
Jinger attends MacArthur’s church.
I know that Jinger now wears shorts, but I wanted to see what were the deeper changes. I found some answers in the Christian Post’s Jinger Duggar Vuolo on the ‘disentangling’ truth of the Gospel from a difficult upbringing.
She initially feared questioning her paradigm.
That first step of like realizing, ‘Oh, this is not true’ — it’s scary because you’re told not to question it. You’re told not to think for yourself, you’re told what to think. And so once you stop and say, ‘Is this really what the Word of God says?’ And you realize it’s not, it feels like your whole foundation is shaken.”
She is still a believer.
As a believer, as somebody who really wants to glorify God and know what God thinks, know what pleases Him, I’m going to go back to the Word of God for my answers, even if that takes me years of working through what I’ve been taught and saying, ‘
She is not deconstructing but disentangling.
“Deconstructing is pulling apart everything and tearing it all down to the studs, never to build it up again. And that’s just not what I’m doing, and that’s not my story,” she said.
“Mine has been one of disentangling, which is pulling apart.
She compares her brother, Josh, to Bill Gothard.
I found this comment quite insightful. I have a theory about those who are rules oriented. It is impossible to keep every rule in the Bible. That is why Jesus came. We are sinners, wanting to do it right, but realizing we can’t. For those so enmeshed in keeping the rules, their paradigm eventually breaks down. They can’t keep all the rules, so why not figure out the rules they really want to break? For Gothard and Duggar, it involved sexual assault. For Gothard, it was the cute, young girls he brought in to run his office. For Duggar, it was his sisters and others, including child pornography, that an agent described as the worst he had seen.
She writes: “I don’t want to describe all the awful things they accused him (Gothard) of … But even if half of what these ladies say is true, Gothard should be permanently disqualified from ministry.”
Vuolo compares her brother, Josh, to Gothard. The Duggar’s TLC show was canceled in 2015 in the wake of reports that Josh Duggar had molested girls as a teen, including two of his sisters, Jessa Seewald and Jill Dillard.
Jeremy Vuolo added to this.
Environments focused on external behaviors and outward appearance and not the condition of the heart, Vuolo said, fuel the kind of destructive behavior Josh engaged in for years.
Jinger claims she does not want to be people-pleasing but chooses to attend MacArthur’s Grace Community Church.
Today, Vuolo and her family attend John MacArthur’s church, Grace Community Church, in Sun Valley, California. She also appreciates the teachings of Evangelical pastors like Alistair Begg, John Piper and Tim Keller.
Now, Vuolo said she wants to model for her daughters what it means to truly be a child of God: Deeply flawed and deeply loved. Being performative and “people-pleasing,” she said, doesn’t reflect the grace He freely offers.
Jinger has come a long way, but she has a ways to go, just like all of us. I am concerned that she will not see that John MacArthur has a history of not telling the truth and encourages abused women to return to their husbands, even when the husbands sexually abuse their children. I hope she has really learned the lesson that even the most perfect appearing Christian is a sinner and can be involved in great sin. That goes for John MacArthur as well. However, I am glad to see that Jinger is on her way to becoming “Free, Indeed” Jinger.
It’s a bit like leaving Scientology so you can join a Branch Dravidian cult.
What a sad sad life … and now moving from one form of patriarchy to another … from one set of rigorous rules which subordinate women to another. God, deliver your children from the mess men have made of your church! However, I guess being a MacArthurite is a bit better than being a Gothardite.
Maybe this is a necessary intermediate step for Jinger. I pray she continues to ‘disentangle’ and become truly free – for her sake and that of her children.
This young woman seems to be exchanging one master for another. Her sad, broken father, Savior Bill Gothard, and now Pope John MacArthur. Here’s hoping she’ll toss them all and cling only to Jesus, who’s yoke is easy and who’s burden is light.
Many of us ran from one terrible abusive church to a milder form of abuse and mistook it for freedom. It took years for me to see what I had done. No judgement from me and hoping the best for Jinger.
Doubtful, I couldn’t agree more. I went to the Gothard seminars back in the day, and felt damaged. My Christian friends at the time thought he was great, as did my siblings. I was scolded for my skepticism about Gothard. Both John and Jack MacArthur were at my church back in the day–they were also authoritarian. It has taken me years to “disentangle” my beliefs.
Old Timer,
You’ve turned out really well given your background. 😉
Even among her backwards and counting clan in Arkansas, Jinger was, admittedly, a TV star growing up in front of a camera, raised and bred in privilege. She easily transitions to LA/Hollywood with the look, and never to back away from a lens recording.
Beth Allison Barr, in the opening of “The Making of Biblical Womanhood”, famously writes that she accepted the subjugation of women in the church, even as a well-educated woman, because that was someone else’s problem – until her youth pastor husband was fired from his church. When her own life crumbled, she started to question. Barr apologizes to the women struggling before her, as she was late to the game.
Classy comfy never does much for misogyny, racism, classism, elitism, etc.
A lot of yearning for the Golden Years of yesteryear is just privilege oblivious to people who have really suffered through hard times though not fault of their own. The people at the bottom, the anawim in the Bible, have the knowledge of reality. The privileged at the top have the power and the means to make changes, but are as ignorant as gilded doorknobs.
“Turn the Ship Around!: A True Story of Turning Followers into Leaders” documents this. It is Captain David Marquet’s unprecedented exposé in the most rigid of environments on a U.S. Navy nuclear sub. The intel is at the bottom, the power at the top. If they don’t coordinate, the ship sinks.
Back in the ’90s, there was a Dutch guy living in Germany who claimed to be channeling L. Ron Hubbard and he gathered a tiny cult (his two adult children and an American) around him. His wife was a devout Scientologist and left him. Last we heard, she was working in the Scientology kindergarten in Stuttgart. We had more than a few discussions about whether this was better for her or not?
As it turned out, it was. The cult leader’s daughter died of an untreated illness, the police had to come in and basically break up the cult to remove the daughter’s body, and the cult leader was sent to a German hospital. Last I heard of him, he was out of the hospital, still in his delusions, calling himself Leonardo da Vinci, but apparently not harming anyone else. So yeah, there are worse things than Scientology.
“She says she was raised in a fear-based faith, and she claims she was afraid she would die if she disobeyed…”
Man-o-Manischewitz she (Vuolo) said a mouthful there.
Fundagelicalism really is a fear-based religion and a total tyranny over the human soul.
I got out many years ago and haven’t looked back.
VERY highly recommended by me! I wish I had kept my copy to refer to. Capt Marquet is you and me by our prayers.
There’s never been a proper rule against re-constructing how one better likes, after first the collapse, then the deconstructing. The collapse comes first, before the deconstructing.
Conservationists and remanufacturers even use many of the same components after cleaning them up. Babies and toddlers often know the value of this. Jesus doesn’t throw us out of the pram (or out of the bathwater) either.
Just like there’s not a rule against re-weaving after first some unravelling, then untangling. Unravelling comes before untangling.
Prior to unravelling, one thought the system well woven. Prior to collapse, one thought the building well built, because that was all we had been taught to see.
Glad you’ve used the word “paradigm”, Dee (that’s what I mean when I say package deal or template). When we go cafeteria, we use our God given gifts of initiative and discretion.
Some have a devotion to “Mary untangler of knots”. Richard Wurmbrand said we can all be Marys. (After all, blokes are, spiritually, daughters of Jerusalem.) The Gordian non-solution of Alexander (slashing) just left all the problems to recur.
We ought not to forget how, like this couple, we are ideal companions to unobtrusively bring our new friends a fresh view of their situation.
The benefit of mass media only turned to a disbenefit when these were seized by fundamentalists and dominionists. The Duggar seniors and other “Armada” leaders had turned their children into memes, pokemons or chibis, something God didn’t want us to be.
Muff Potter,
You nailed it Muff..
As Max likes to say about the “New Calvanists”, so many “Christian groups” seem to ignore the teaching of Christ, and follow Paul/Calvin, or in the case of many fundamentalist, revert back to a Pharisaical type of Christianity.
The longer I live, and reflect on my experiences, and read so many posts and comments on TWW, the more I am convinced of how “off” so much of “American Christianity” is.
The actual teachings of Christ are so different than what so much of what “American Christianity” has become…
I left a hard comp patriarchy church and went to a soft comp church. I had red flags waving but took me awhile to leave also. Until you experience this it is hard to understand.
Jeffrey, we have fallen far from the holy standard set for us, far from the Truth and nothing but the Truth, far from the church model described in the New Testament, far from the Gospel that saves, far from the tree that is Jesus. Nothing short of a genuine revival and spiritual awakening will get American Christianity back on track … but I don’t see much movement in that direction.
Praise God for the few glimpses of authentic church here and there, where a faithful pulpit and pew are still under the authority of Christ and experiencing His influence in their midst … so I still have hope. At my age, I’m not sure I’ll see real-deal Church stitched back into the American fabric, but you might. In the meantime, hang in there, stay in touch with Jesus.
It is very common for cult survivors to “cult-hop” after leaving their first group. A cult mindset (black-and-white thinking, us vs them, good vs evil, entitlement, superiority) takes a lot of time and effort to heal. I am fairly confident Jinger will see the same patterns of authoritarian control at GCC as she did in the Gothard movement. Very similar to her, I left a charismatic cult and joined a MacArthur-affiliated church. Right from the start of joining this church, I noticed things that bothered me. I found it difficult to be the type of all-in fanatic I was with the cult. I’d give Jinger a max of seven years at GCC. And, one last thing, even though the church I went to was unhealthy, it WAS still healthier than the cult.
The pulpit would do well to listen to what the pew has to offer every once in a while, to consider themselves equal to every other member in their church, to toss aside overlord rule and quest for power, to allow their congregations input on church affairs, to spend more time recognizing and equipping the spiritually gifted in their churches (regardless of race, class or gender), to move forward as one man under the authority and influence of Jesus, to humble themselves, pray, repent and seek God … or the ship sinks.
Think about it:
Compared to growing up Duggar/IBLP, JMac’s church WOULD seem like total Freedom.
It’s what is NORMAL.
That is what the Kingdom of God is SUPPOSED to be like.
The rules of *CELEBRITY* are in effect.
And growing up *CELEBRITY* can wreck your life and personality all by its lonesome.
Look at all the histories of adult Child Star train wrecks/dumpster fires.
The Duggar family itself is a cult. Nothing worse than having your father as a cult leader. When Jinger “announced to her parents that she is rejecting the Gothard-based, rules-heavy fundamentalism of her upbringing”, she was essentially announcing that she was rejecting the cultish leadership of her father. Her father may have been inspired by Gothard, but he tweaked the Gothard system for his use and is responsible for the consequences of his leadership on the whole family. Sad for her and the children still in the clutches of this mess … may they all be free someday.
Headless Unicorn Guy,
Curious about what you meant by that last sentence?
LOL! Love the headline. Yes, you do know what I am thinking.
The Duggars are apparently among those that take the perfectly good Baptist teaching of “once saved always saved” and distort it. Within that teaching, done right, is the clear understanding that a) not all who claim to be born again are and b) that while yes, the born again can and do still sin horribly at times, that does not mean they face no consequences. Both temporal chastisement or discipline by God, and eternal loss of rewards (but not salvation) happen to the born again believer who lives a life of sin. The Duggars seem to twist it in regards to Josh as “he is saved so we just need to support him no matter what.” They then blame anyone who speaks against Josh’s sin as speaking against Josh.
Now, besides the fact Jinger apparently deeply loves Jeremy and he seems a strong follower of MacArthur, there is another reason Jinger would be attracted to JM’s teaching. JM is Lordship Salvation, and under that teaching, JM takes it to the extreme that there is no way someone as sinful as Josh could possibly be saved. That has to be very tempting to his victims, as it allows the victim the sense of “oh yeah well he’ll get his comeuppance some day when he fries in hell.”
The truth is in between. Is Josh saved? Only God knows for sure, as Josh could be deceived by what he has been taught and by his own heart. All I can say is he does not live like a saved person should. Should I take a guess, I see no signs of remorse or repentance for his actions. I would expect a saved person caught up in a mental illness causing sin or just in a pervasive habit of sin to at least regret it.
Jinger is likely attracted to JM’s version of Calvinism at this point because it demands fruit meet for repentance without swinging over into a bunch of man made laws about how a person can dress, wear their hair, etc. Also the whole “chosen” idea is likely appealing to a victim.
My prayer for her at this point is that if she remains a Calvinist, she move somewhat out of the Lordship Salvation camp towards the Michael Horton theology of his book “Christless Christianity.”
Personally I believe a healthy Calvinist will be someone right in the middle between those two.
And I am finding her move from “Duggar drabness” into “ain’t I a babe” glamour shots a bit off putting. It is like she never really got to be 16 so she is making up for lost time now. Just my two cents there, not worth a dime lol.
I have read various “Free Jinger” forums for many years. Lots of truths there. Now….how will Jinger get out from under John MacArthur’s umbrella?
It’s not an umbrella, it’s a rock! As a woman, she’s accustomed to having to sit down and shut up in church … and MacArthur requires the same … perhaps she will figure that out quickly and move on.
Huh.. JM’s GCC……. I wonder how much of that choice was all about Jinger’s husband???
https://www.gracechurch.org/leader/Vuolo/Jeremy
Max,
Only to find another daddy … John Mac.
The infantilization of evangeo fundy xian boys and girls inspires many a daddy for the kiddies to glob onto: Piper, Driscoll, Moscow’s Wilson, Gothard, Dobson, Hybels, etc.
The book of Hebrews in the Bible exposes the infantilization of Christians:
“For although by this time you should be teachers, you again need to have someone teach you the rudiments of the first principles of the revelations of God. You have come to need milk, and not solid food. For everyone who lives on milk is not experienced in the word of righteousness, for he is a baby. But solid food is for those who are full grown, who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern good and evil.” From Hebrews 5.
In other words, instead of mother’s milk or eating regurgitated pablum spoonfed from a parent, read the Bible and pray for yourself without the co-dependency of a leader who “needs” his followers. Cut out the middleman. We have our leader – Jesus.
Tammy Faye Bakker was raised in a strict “NO Makeup, NO Beauty aids” home, so when she got out from under them (by marrying Jim) she went full-honk in the opposite direction. It’s a common reaction.
A much more extreme example was occultist Aliester Crowley, whose entire adult life was one long loud “F-U!” to his strict Plymouth Brethren father & upbringing.
That being raised in a cultic environment makes the cultic behavior not only Normal, but the metrics of Godliness.
Loves that camera. Even the Duggar drabness era was Hollywood TV Star freaky family fodder and fascination. Just want to love everybody for Jesus and as always, show everybody how it’s done. The real deal: first the Counting Years, now the Leaving Years. Ready, set, action, now roll the cameras for precious vids. Oh my, aren’t we special. LOL. Kinda boring, actually. And a bit pathetic. Not a whole lot there, there.
The real story is how to save children from being prey to the porn industry that her brother Josh loves. That’s the story. No glam. Only heartbreak, and real heroes in the trenches rescuing truly victimized children. (LE detectives said Josh’s porn on his computer was the worst they’ve seen ever. Extreme violence to children. Focus on them. Save them.)
Sometimes not even that, but CANDY! CANDY! CANDY!
Christians sure seem to have this knack for being (and raising) SERIOUS Arrested Development cases.
Sometimes down to the Perpetual Toddler level.
(If Fear of Hell is the prime motivator, moral development gets stuck at the Toddler level: Avoid Punishment and Nothing Else.)
Yes.
“He who was born in a cage
Yearns for a cage;
With horror I understand
That I Love My Cage.”
— Yegevny Yevtushenko, Soviet-era Russian poet
Ah, yes. That’s a picture all right. Exactly.
Going from Gothard + Jim Bob to JMac is not exactly putting on one’s Thinking Cap. Different designer, same style.
There’s a certain arrogance to my daddy is bigger and better than your daddy, while always seeking a daddy, so finding a new daddy.
Following Jesus does not grant hubris in any way, shape, or form. It’s simply not part of the package.
“From his fullness we all received grace upon grace.” Jesus’ fulness – no hubris. Grace upon grace – no hubris. Jesus was born in a stable, preached on hillsides, and rode a donkey into Jerusalem where they executed him on a cross. (John 1.16)
Duggars can keep counting. Hollywood can keep filming. Jesus is neither counting, nor filming Hollywood stars.
Jesus lived, died, and rose to free us from the cage, a cage, all cages. That’s the Gospel.
“I Know What You’re Thinking”
I’m thinking I’m getting sick and tired of ungodly un-Biblical patriarchal authoritarian religious systems and their shepherds which abuse God’s children in one form or another. I figure God is tired of it, too.
Connie Gould,
“I left a hard comp patriarchy church and went to a soft comp church. I had red flags waving but took me awhile to leave also. Until you experience this it is hard to understand.”
++++++++++++++++++++++++++
just curious where you stand now. (seems like you’ve been progressively going in a ‘simply human being’ direction).
(mutual human beings on a mutual human being plane)
Looks like it is JMac + Jeremy now. Leaving the Gothard + Jim Bob mess didn’t remove her chains, just changed the brand. She may not realize that yet.
Therein lies the problem with much of the American church. We are Gothard-Followers, MacArthur-Followers, Piper-Followers, this & that Celebrity-Followers. As time goes on, fewer and fewer seem to be Christ-Followers. So we buy another package rather than the gift Jesus freely gave us because we want it that way.
All that glitters is not gold, but something shiny like a fool’s gold.
Imagine realising that you are the product of some christianese version of getting into the Guinness Book of Records for the most arrows in the quiver. That’s bound to mess you up. So, whatever you think of her joining the JMac cult (and who doesn’t), I feel sorry for her.
Max,
“Therein lies the problem with much of the American church. We are Gothard-Followers, MacArthur-Followers, Piper-Followers, this & that Celebrity-Followers. As time goes on, fewer and fewer seem to be Christ-Followers. So we buy another package…”
Headless Unicorn Guy,
“That being raised in a cultic environment makes the cultic behavior not only Normal, but the metrics of Godliness.”
++++++++++++++++++++++
seems to me christian culture / christianity (is there really a difference?) is a system about itself,
producing people who resemble each other, doing and saying the same kinds of things in the same way.
a lot of it weird and cumbersome…
.
.
sort of like a baseball player running the bases in a weird, physically contorted way,
and the only the way they can get there as fast as ‘regular’ baseball players is to expend lots of extra effort to compensate for the drag on their normal functioning.
this weird, physically contorted way of doing things does nothing to help… it is itself the object of the exercise and makes you legit.
(and makes the baseball-players-but-‘christian’ pat themselves on the back for being so good at being different, having counted the cost of all this extra effort to run in this super weird way)
and those observing from the outside are saying “what in the world….”
elastigirl,
i mean, i look at my agnostic and atheist friends and family…
full of integrity, strong character, and kindness
happy marriages where they are simply kind to each other
they’re the ones who resemble Jesus of Nazareth.
no system overanalyzing everything (until their intuition, gut instinct and common sense are like a paper cup turned inside out)
and run by overlords prescribing ridiculous nonsense…
“God doesn’t give us anything to join – except Him.” – Bob Goff
Meet together, yes. Join, no. Just join Jesus. Does that seem lame? Not shiny? That’s why they voted for Barabbas in Jesus’ day.
Thanks Dee, for your kind comment. I’m definitely a work in progress, and God is doing most of the work.
Out of fairness to Jinger, it is a process, and often feels/looks like one step forward and two steps back. Connie Gould was right when she wrote, “Until you experience this it is hard to understand.”
Dee, hope your mother is doing better.
Michael in UK,
Loved your comment, Michael
“anointed” celebrities … touch of charisma … gift of gab … “gospel” centered … seeker friendly … we alone hold truth … theology indoctrination … the beauty of complementarity … quiver-full … mega mania … books by your favorite icon … big screens … fog machines … skinny jeans … etc. etc. etc.
It’s hell in the hallway, but there’s a light at the end of the tunnel (His name is Jesus). What is learned in the valley can be used to help others out of it … don’t waste the experience. When you see it, you can’t unsee it; when you know it, you can’t unknow it … it’s in your knower.
Much of the American church is still doing that … they just don’t know it.
Beware of any church that requires you to take a course before you can join … it’s indoctrination pure and simple … MacArthur developed a “Spiritual Boot Camp” for this purpose.
Joining MacArthur is a world of difference from Joining Jesus.
They (MacArthur and others) claim to speak for Jesus.
Which is why I’m happy in a small liturgical Lutheran church.
No drama, no alpha-male-strongman-in-the-pulpit, no abuse, no horse-poo-poo, just great people; coffee and donuts afterwards.
And yet they (the great they from the fundagelical robot factories) will claim that those of whom you speak, are going to hell for not believing a certain way.
It is neither fair nor is it just.
Muff Potter,
“And yet they (the great they from the fundagelical robot factories) will claim that those of whom you speak, are going to hell for not believing a certain way.”
++++++++++++++++++++
in my observation, it’s standard evangelicalism, as dotted around the street maps of most towns and cities in America.
(protestantism, catholicism, eastern/greek orthodox too?)
[not that all such individual christians see it that way…although I think most would — i’d like to be wrong]
This is not totally surprising.
I previously attended what was (at the time I joined) a traditional SBC church. Then we became inundated by several IBLP families, who immediately began demanding changes (notably they had to have their own separate Sunday School class apart from the others). Not surprisingly people started leaving. Having left a church which went through a dramatic split, I wasn’t about to stick around for another one.
It turns out that the IBLP families (save one or two) ultimately left as well. But now that church is openly 9Marks Reformed. So maybe one leads to the other?
Waiting for Dee to comment on FBC Jacksonville (FL) which is now requiring its members (not new ones, but retroactively applying this to existing ones) to sign a “covenant” affirming traditional marriage. If a church can pull this off (on an issue where most of the members likely agree with the church’s position), what’s to stop it from demanding to see income records for tithing? (The LDS require this of its members)
Exactly what happens with other survivors of abuse, especially if it was in childhood. So many people manage to get into the same abusive relationships over and over. This is the bit that Jinger is really going to have to disentangle and I hope she’s getting therapy.
Hi -free jinger is a forum and started before reddit. http://Www.free jinger.org
Your link is to Duggar Snark
That is totally NOT Free Jinger
Putting words in Jesus’ mouth is a dangerous game.
God has changed His line of sight to us, but not His principles.
Sacred normalisation by the holy man on the screen.
christiane,
I won’t tolerate anyone dissing deconstruction 😉
Mark R,
Yeah, well … Heath Lambert
why am I not surprised?
Because in their hindbrain, the abuse is what’s NORMAL.
It’s what they grew up with, as far back as they can remember.
At that point, it’s become firmware in their brain and personality.
And returning to the familiar is a known stress reaction.
Add the God-talk, and it supercharges everything to (literally) Cosmic Importance.
The abusive Normal is justified by Divine Right, with God becoming both Enforcer and Celebrity endorsement..
I am so sorry. I have changed it in the post. This link on reddit is only used when their website is down.
https://www.reddit.com/r/freejinger/
This link is the regular link
https://www.freejinger.org
Thank you all for correcting me. I appreciate it.
MOD: Comment edited to show correct “Max” and to remove duplicate line. GBTC
Max,
Amen to that!!
Gotta be honest, never watched the Duggar show. This is the first time I’ve heard of Jinger Duggar.
And probably the last time.
I know the brother is in jail but is there a sub story to this?
I probably could Google it, but it’s Friday night.
My wife’s doing overtime, kids are playing a game on the PlayStation, I’m doing dishes.
Life goes on.
Was Jinger’s marriage one that the Duggars ‘arranged’ for her?
dee,
uhhh … the real Max (the old Wartburger) did not make that comment
MOD: Noted. GBTC
Max,
Yikes! Is this the first time someone has impersonated you?
Must admit I was surprised that you were following this drama before Reddit!
Max,
This is too confusing. I just finished watching Echoes about two twin sisters who switch places all the time and left me confused. Now, this! 🙂
Jack,
Josh is a pervert-molested two of his sisters and was caught in all kinds of problems during his marriage to Anna. Had child porn with very young toddlers.
With my wit and wisdom, I am extremely tough to impersonate.
Nah, not me. My venture into the blogosphere is limited to TWW. I sampled some others, but they didn’t want to hear what I had to say and got ugly with me.
Max,
Their loss.
Mark R,
Mission Creeps.
Gus,
How is Lambert connected?
Headless Unicorn Guy,
Got it!
I am totally baffled as to why otherwise intelligent and rational adults would put themselves under this kind of tyranny.
Ultimately this is a Christian problem that needs to be solved by Christians.
One the regular commenters,Max, talked about leaving the blogosphere and I’m at that point where I understand the problem but but can no longer influence it any way, shape or form.
I’m an apostate. And nothing right now can make me go back. I just read the same stuff over and over. Different names but the same craziness.
I’ve ridden the train as far as I go.
For me Christianity is irretrievably broken.
Taking a hiatus from religion. Except insofar as looking at it from a sociological or historical perspective. I’ve always been interested in the psychology of cults and cultic thought and history and politics.
I’ll stick to the scale modelling parts of the blogosphere. My next project is a scale model of a Japanese port circa WW2 in the 1/700 scale.
Christians breaking the law (or any religion) should be held accountable. And whatever your brand of Christianity, you should hold your leadership accountable.
As they say en francais “bon chance”. I truly hope that those in this forum can be a force for change.
TTFN
I tried 1/700 with a Fujimi Yugumo and found it was right at the limit of what I was able to do. (I don’t know how the guys who superdetail their 1/700 ships with photo-etch do it without messing up big or losing their minds completely.)
Headless Unicorn Guy,
Tip: Tamiya AS-27 Gunship Grey is a close enough match to IJN ship grey for 1/700 – no need for those Tamiya IJN greys itemized by shipyard/arsenal. (1/700 is too small a scale to distinguish between the various shades if IJN Grey and Tamiys colors have a rep of being off-prototype.) For touch-up, three parts Tamiya XF-82 Ocean Grey to one or two parts of black matches AS-27. Unblackened XF-82 could possibly be used for faded or somewhat-contrasting trim to up the visibility of small detail parts.
Tamiya XF-79 Deck Linoleum Brown is a near-perfect match for all IJN decks except carrier flight decks and battleship main decks (which were kept natural hardwood).
Excellent book. Search for him pon YOuTube and watch a one hour version of his story: turned the worst submarine in the fleet into the best by empowering his subordinates to make good decisions.
This blog is powerfully written and present to air the unrepentent offenses by “headship” Christian narcissists if not misogynists cloaking themselves in churchianity. Thank God we can know ourselves as ecclesia overall, called out in the way of Jesus without pledging allegiance to particular types of church or clergy.
My heart, in reading comments, goes out to those so disgusted by cruel nonsense spouted by “leaders” as though gospel that they currently want nothing to do with organized religion. I understand and grieve with you.
The young woman of Duggar infamy may work her way out of John MacArthur’s influence and ultimately into the light and truth of Christ. Once I visited in the MacArthur church and the oppressively dark energies and rotten fruits of subjugation nearly choked me as he preached. Praying deliverance for every woman who is brainwashed by his denigrating them through so-called complementarianism. And I pray generally to God: Deliver us from evil.
Long ago for similar reasons I left SBC, which got as bad as the neo-Calvinists in seeking to quash the Holy Spirit’s gifts in women. Plus I don’t bake cookies.
For years afterward I experienced various ministries — for ex., the Church of England has some glorious communion services by Zoom, and Greg Boyd at Woodland Hills in MN/online has some good things to say. But ultimately despite the varying doctrines of others, each of us has to decide how we meet Jesus for understanding the gospel in our lives and for eternity.
Recently I found a local church in NM of somewhat obscure denomination with kind people, joyful worship and community service that may be a fit longer term. Participating as a friend and not being a denominational member is acceptable there. It has been a blessing.
So I encourage everyone struggling with the overall church’s body not to give up, to know you’re beloved of God and that the agape love of Jesus flows to us always as the Holy Spirit guides and comforts.
Thank you for writing the posts of this blog and for everyone who comments as well.
Headless Unicorn Guy,
Thanks for the tip!
First time foray in 1/700. I have a bunch of Hasegawa waterline models I picked up for 20 bucks at a comic show a few years ago (back before the local comic con priced me out of attending)
I have a harbour and tugger set for the port along with the battleship hyuga (pre aircraft carrier conversion), a heavy cruiser, light cruiser and two destroyers.
Some other dioramas I have in mind for 1/700 are a coldwar encounter between JDSF and a Russian bear (including an HMS Tiger matchbox model) and lst convoy around d day.
Anyways it’ll look awesome or I’ll botch it. Lol if it looks too bad maybe I’ll turn into a seafloor wreck diorama.
I see we have the same shopping strategy.
Most of my builds are kits I pick up at the periodic modellers’ swap meets/shows for $5 to 10. In my local IPMS chapter, I’m known as the guy who takes old/distressed kits and makes something out of them.
And those 1/700 waterline kits (without the aftermarket stuff) new go for $30-$50 these days. Another reason to “pick them up for 20 bucks at a comic show” when you see them. Mostly 1/24 cars and 1/72 aircraft, but I somehow ended up with a good chunk of the Imperial Navy in 1/700 waterline.
In SBC life, the unpardonable sin, the lowest of the low, a mere derivative of man eternally relegated to the back pew. No cookies = no fellowship.
Muff Potter,
Read Steven Hassan’s “Combating Cult Mind Control” and you’ll understand a little bit more.
The threat of getting spewed out of Christ’s mouth on The Last Day can be quite a motivator.
And anyway, don’t they preach a God and Christ who is a Cosmic Kim Jong-Un?
So there’s not much difference between “this kind of tyranny” and Heaven.
Leaving one cult for another equals eventual disaster.
But when a Cultic environment has been What’s Normal for your entire life…