On Dec. 7, 1972—50 years ago today—the crew of Apollo 17 took this photo of Earth as they journeyed to the Moon. Known today as the “Blue Marble”, this picture has since become one of the most iconic images of our home world. NASA
“[Mary is the] highest woman and the noblest gem in Christianity after Christ… She is nobility, wisdom, and holiness personified. We can never honor her enough. Still, honor and praise must be given to her in such a way as to injure neither Christ nor the Scriptures.” Martin Luther
I will post my annual Christmas in Ouray thoughts on Friday and try to get EChurch up early.
Wikipedia, that well-known book of theology, states that:
- She is mentioned by name twelve times in the Gospel of Luke,[note 3] ( Luke 1:27,30,34, 38–39,41,46,56; 2:5,16,19,34.)
- five times in the Gospel of Matthew,[note 4] (Matthew 1:16,18,20; 2:11; 13:55)
- once in the Gospel of Mark,[note 5] (Mark 6:3.)
- and once in the Book of Acts.[note 6] (Acts 1:14.)
- (In addition Matthew 12:46–50 and Mark 3:31–35 both describe Mary’s visit to Jesus as an adult but without mentioning her name.[17]
- The Gospel of John mentions the mother of Jesus twice (John 2:1–12 and 19:25–27) but without naming her, and is the only canonical Gospel to explicitly state that she was present at the Crucifixion.[17]
Mary is discussed in the events surrounding the birth of Jesus. Mary is mentioned in bringing Jesus to be circumcised. Then, in Matthew 2:13-15, Joseph, Mary, and Jesus flee to Egypt to live until Herod dies. (Matthew 2:13-15.)
Mary gets Jesus to turn the water into wine at the wedding
John 2: 1-12
On the third day a wedding took place at Cana in Galilee. Jesus’ mother was there, 2 and Jesus and his disciples had also been invited to the wedding. 3 When the wine was gone, Jesus’ mother said to him, “They have no more wine.”
4 “Woman,[a] why do you involve me?” Jesus replied. “My hour has not yet come.”
5 His mother said to the servants, “Do whatever he tells you.”
6 Nearby stood six stone water jars, the kind used by the Jews for ceremonial washing, each holding from twenty to thirty gallons.[b]
7 Jesus said to the servants, “Fill the jars with water”; so they filled them to the brim.
8 Then he told them, “Now draw some out and take it to the master of the banquet.”
They did so, 9 and the master of the banquet tasted the water that had been turned into wine.He did not realize where it had come from, though the servants who had drawn the water knew. Then he called the bridegroom aside 10 and said, “Everyone brings out the choice wine first and then the cheaper wine after the guests have had too much to drink; but you have saved the best till now.”
11 What Jesus did here in Cana of Galilee was the first of the signs through which he revealed his glory; and his disciples believed in him.
12 After this he went down to Capernaum with his mother and brothers and his disciples. There they stayed for a few days.
- Jesus told Mary it wasn’t His time to begin His ministry.
- Mary knew Jesus would help her out anyway.
- This was the first sign of His revealed glory, and the disciples believed in Him.
- He wasn’t too miffed off with Mary. Afterward, He went on a trip to Capernaum with Mary, His brothers, and the disciples.
Mary and the brothers of Jesus are used as proof that Jesus was a nobody.
Matthew 13:53-58 NIV:
A Prophet Without Honor
53 When Jesus had finished these parables, he moved on from there. 54 Coming to his hometown, he began teaching the people in their synagogue, and they were amazed. “Where did this man get this wisdom and these miraculous powers?” they asked. 55 “Isn’t this the carpenter’s son? Isn’t his mother’s name Mary, and aren’t his brothers James, Joseph, Simon and Judas? 56 Aren’t all his sisters with us? Where then did this man get all these things?”57 And they took offense at him.
But Jesus said to them, “A prophet is not without honor except in his own town and in his own home.”
58 And he did not do many miracles there because of their lack of faith.
Jesus was miffed at them and did not do many miracles due to their lack of faith. I wonder how Mary felt about the disdain of the crowd.
And Jesus was offended by the crowd because he wasn’t going for the adulation of the celebrity crowd.
Mark 6:1-6 NIV
Jesus left there and went to his hometown, accompanied by his disciples.2 When the Sabbath came, he began to teach in the synagogue, and many who heard him were amazed.
“Where did this man get these things?” they asked. “What’s this wisdom that has been given him? What are these remarkable miracles he is performing? 3 Isn’t this the carpenter? Isn’t this Mary’s son and the brother of James, Joseph,[a] Judas and Simon? Aren’t his sisters here with us?” And they took offense at him.
4 Jesus said to them, “A prophet is not without honor except in his own town, among his relatives and in his own home.” 5 He could not do any miracles there, except lay his hands on a few sick people and heal them. 6
It appears the crowd was looking for a celebrity family who should have been the ones to have the Messiah. Many evangelicals today would sadly agree with them. “Let’s make Jesus a celebrity!” Jesus was offended by their judgment of Mary and his brothers and sisters. It so affected him that He” could not” do any miracles except for a few small ones. Jesus was protective of His mother and family. I bet He comforted Mary.
A confusing episode that involved Mary
Mark 3:20-34 NIV:
20 Then Jesus entered a house, and again a crowd gathered,so that he and his disciples were not even able to eat.21 When his family[b] heard about this, they went to take charge of him, for they said, “He is out of his mind.”
22 And the teachers of the law who came down from Jerusalem said, “He is possessed by Beelzebul! By the prince of demons he is driving out demons.”
23 So Jesus called them over to him and began to speak to them in parables: “How can Satandrive out Satan? 24 If a kingdom is divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand. 25 If a house is divided against itself, that house cannot stand. 26 And if Satan opposes himself and is divided, he cannot stand; his end has come. 27 In fact, no one can enter a strong man’s house without first tying him up. Then he can plunder the strong man’s house. 28 Truly I tell you, people can be forgiven all their sins and every slander they utter, 29 but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; they are guilty of an eternal sin.”
30 He said this because they were saying, “He has an impure spirit.”
31 Then Jesus’ mother and brothers arrived. Standing outside, they sent someone in to call him. 32 A crowd was sitting around him, and they told him, “Your mother and brothers are outside looking for you.”
33 “Who are my mother and my brothers?” he asked.
34 Then he looked at those seated in a circle around him and said, “Here are my mother and my brothers! 35 Whoever does God’s will is my brother and sister and mother.”
46 While Jesus was still talking to the crowd, his mother and brothers stood outside, wanting to speak to him. 47 Someone told him, “Your mother and brothers are standing outside, wanting to speak to you.”
48 He replied to him, “Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?” 49 Pointing to his disciples, he said, “Here are my mother and my brothers. 50 For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.”
Did Mary really think her son was crazy, or was it something else?
At this point, the teachers of the law were saying Jesus was demon-possessed, which meant things were not going well, an understatement. Perhaps Mary was trying to prevent Jesus from being arrested. Did she fear for His life? It is possible that some of her family were questioning what Jesus was doing, and she was trying to keep the peace. Jesus was moving away from his primary family and pointing out that all who followed the Father’s will were now his family. I wonder how Mary felt at this point. Was she beginning to comprehend how Jesus was changing the face of the faith?
She was somewhat challenged to begin to think about Jesus differently. Was she beginning to wonder about Simeon’s prophecy of the pain she would face?
Mary, John, and Jesus on the Cross
John 19:25-27 NIV
Near the crossof Jesus stood his mother,his mother’s sister, Mary the wife of Clopas, and Mary Magdalene. 26 When Jesus saw his mother there, and the disciple whom he lovedstanding nearby, he said to her, “Woman,[b] here is your son,” 27 and to the disciple, “Here is your mother.” From that time on, this disciple took her into his home.
- Jesus loved His mother so much that He arranged for her care as He died.
- It is possible that the brothers of Jesus were not yet believers, so Jesus chose “the disciple He loved.”
- Mary now understood the pain that Simeon predicted.
- She was only about 47 years old at this time.
- John didn’t hesitate to care for her. he was the only disciple who did not face an early death in the founding of the faith.
- John was thought to have died in Ephesus at @100 AD. When I visited there, there was the home of Mary, who was believed by some to have moved to Ephesus with him.
- However, the Eastern Orthodox Church puts her death in Jerusalem, where she lived with the apostles, meaning she didn’t always live with John.
- I tend to hold with the Ephesus/John theory.
Mary was in the upper room with the disciples and Jesus’ brothers after the ascension of Jesus.
Then the apostles returned to Jerusalem from the hill called the Mount of Olives, a Sabbath day’s walk[c] from the city.13 When they arrived, they went upstairs to the room where they were staying. Those present were Peter, John, James and Andrew; Philip and Thomas, Bartholomew and Matthew; James son of Alphaeus and Simon the Zealot, and Judas son of James. 14 They all joined together constantly in prayer, along with the women and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brothers.
At this point, Jesus had appeared to the disciples and His brother, James, who had become a believer. So did Mary decide to live with him? It is believed that he died as a martyr sometime around 60 AD. Maybe Jesus was telling her to stay with John, knowing that James’ martyrdom would occur.
Final thought
One thing is certain. Mary lived a quiet life and never told us if Jesus ever turned Matzoh into ice cream. Mary spent some time with the disciples, and it is reasonable to imagine that she, along with John the Beloved and James, the brother of Jesus, discussed what happened in depth. I would imagine that she became the expert on what it was like to have the living presence of Jesus inside her for nine months. Then, she lived with him as He grew up. Imagine what she learned from Him and how she felt about His presence with her.
I believe Mary should take her place at the head of the class of disciples. As such, she should be remembered for more than just being a willing womb. God chose her to raise Jesus. Therefore, it is reasonable to assume that she was a leader among men and women. After all, the disciples seemed to enjoy her being around while waiting for the Spirit.
I believe that complementarian churches should (but won’t) allow a woman in the pulpit to discuss Mary’s Magnificat or to discuss how Mary had a perspective that men do not have. She experienced the incredibly real and physical presence of the body of Jesus. Wow!
“I have been amazed that some are utterly in doubt as to whether or not the Holy Virgin is able to be called the Mother of God. For if our Lord Jesus Christ is God, how should the Holy Virgin who bore him not be the Mother of God?” ~ St. Cyril of Alexandria.” (For Burwell Stark.)
Merry Christmas, and thank God for Mary’s bold, beautiful, and trusting spirit.
i.e. Hyperdulia, as the Greatest of the Saints.
St.Luke 2:34
Then Simeon blessed them
AND SAID TO HIS MOTHER MARY:
“Behold, this Child is appointed to cause the rise and fall of many in Israel, and to be a sign that will be spoken against, 35so that the thoughts of many hearts will be revealed— and a sword will pierce your soul as well.”
John 19:25 “King James Bible
“Now there stood by the cross of Jesus his mother . . . “
Celebrated on May 31, the Feast of the Visitation of the Blessed Virgin Mary commemorates the Virgin Mary’s visit to her cousin, Elizabeth. The meeting of these two women, with John the Baptist and Jesus the Son of God also present, is divine and unprecedented.
It’s interesting that these two women had this very unique experience with the future Savior of the world – the Son of God, therefore God – AND with the one who would one day be the Voice of One Crying in the Wilderness, “Prepare the way of the Lord.” John would die as a martyr.
These two women.
Two women. Chosen by God. A unique fellowship together, not “covered” or approved by any men. No priests or pastors or adult men are present as a part of this story.
Luke 1: 39-56.
“ I believe that complementarian churches should (but won’t) allow a woman in the pulpit to discuss Mary’s Magnificat or to discuss how Mary had a perspective that men do not have.”
Comp churches certainly won’t, and yet:
1.). An angel set Joseph straight when he thought Mary had gotten pregnant out of wedlock by another man and decided to privately “put Mary away”.
2.). An angel silenced Zechariah for quite a while when he said Elizabeth couldn’t be pregnant.
Hmmmmmmm……
Protestants have over-compensated on the person and message of Mary.
From the OP:
That.
That.
I always smile when I read that story in the Bible. The part I like most is when an Angel of the Lord appears to Zechariah to relay the message that he was to be a father of a son who would be in the spirit and power of Elijah to prepare the way for the Messiah. An Angel of the Lord talks to him, and Zechariah asks for a sign before he will believe it! Uhhh, an Angel of the Lord just talked to you, Zechariah! So the Angel essentially responds “OK, you want (another) sign, I’ll give you a sign … you won’t be able to talk until the birth of your son!”
But, we need to give Zechariah a break … how many of us have been led in a direction by the Holy Spirit, didn’t believe it, and chose another route?
A sermon you will not hear from patriarchal, authoritarian, complementarian, bully pulpits.
Headless Unicorn Guy,
Thank you, HUG and Merry Christmas.
Awesome. Merry Christmas, Ava!
Darn right, Max. Merry Christmas!
I suspect that Mary’s pre-Cross expectations for “what Jesus’ future would be” were similar to those of the apostles, who seem to have envisaged a visible enthronement of Jesus as king of Israel (or, at least, of Judea) in Jerusalem, with themselves as high Court officials. Mary might become Queen Mother, and an important albeit ‘behind the scenes’ influence on the government.
One gets the sense that the writers of the Gospels (especially the synoptics) have a higher regard for Mary than they do for the apostles, who are described in ways that suggest that (at least until some time between the Ascension and Pentecost) they were following Jesus at least in part for reasons of personal advancement. Jesus repeatedly rebuked the apostles for their selfishness; we don’t see this kind of harsh criticism in the few descriptions of his interactions with Mary, though there is some sort of apparent tension in the description of the “sign” at the Cana wedding.
—
An unrelated thought (but that is tangentially connected in that it hints at the complexity of these stories, that we tend to flatten out and simplify from our distant vantage point) —
Mark’s description in ch 6 of Jesus’ interaction with his homies, especially the end of the story, that attributes to Jesus “inability” to do any great work on account of the peoples’ lack of faith, is puzzling on conventional understandings of “how Jesus wrought his mighty works.” It has led to some odd theology, such as the “Word of Faith” teaching. The puzzle looks less confusing if one supposes that Jesus wrought his mighty works through prayer to the Father (and compare Jn 9:30-33 and 11:40-42). If that’s right, the Mk 6 story means not that the people’s lack of faith limited Jesus’ ability to do powerful works, but that it displeased the Father, who in that unusual instance did not grant Jesus’ prayers on their behalf, except for the healing of a few people.
dee,
There are so many stories of amazing women in the Bible church folks will never hear about from dudebro pulpits. Great women like Mary of Nazareth, Ruth the Moabite, Mary Magdalene, Rachael, Hannah, Eve, Deborah, Esther, Miriam, Sarah, Hagar, Abigal, Elizabeth, Priscilla, Mary of Bethany, Martha, Jehosheba, Jochebed, Rahab, Bathsheba, etc. etc. Yep, the Body of Christ miss so much of what God wants them to know if they rely only on “Pastor” without reading the Bible themselves.
Mary is the reason for the season, too.
Merry Christmas to you and yours, Dee!
Merry Christmas, Wartburgers!
“If We must stand because Enemy Christians Kneel, that is Protestantism taken to its most sterile extreme.”
— Evangelical Is Not Enough
I think the quote of Martin Luther sums it up.. especially given his “unique status” in the reformation!!
From The Irish Catholic Catechism for Adults
“Mary’s Maternal Intercession
In our culture, there can be a discomfort with praying for Mary’s intercession on our behalf. This seems to be a mediating role that crosses a line set out in theFirst Letter to Timothy: “For there is only one God, and there is only one mediator between God and humanity, himself a human being, Jesus Christ, who offered himself as a ransom for all(1 Tim 2:5-6j. So Jesus Christ is the one and only mediator. Jesus alone is the Saviour.
*Blarney Alert*
It this does not deny the possibility that Christ would permit others to share in his existing role. Here on earth we routinely ask others for prayers. Instinctively, we turn to holy people for their prayers because they seem nearer to God. Why should we stop asking saints for their prayers after they die? If we believe they are in heaven, would not their prayers be even more effective?”
From the earliest times, Christians have sought Mary’s prayers and help. There has been the basic sense on the part of the Church that Mary continues in heaven to be concerned for the growth of all members of the Church into holiness and an intimate relationship with her Son”
No I don’t think Protestants over-compensated on Mary; it was the RCC who over-exaggerated.
I don’t know what the real story is with Mary but I do support women having a strong role in the church.
The main challenge I have is the weaponization of both virginity and celibacy.
These are used as control mechanisms on women and men. Do this, you’re not worthy, don’t do that or you’re a (insert insult here)
Sex is not a sin or a crime. Nor is it evil or unnatural – there’s 8 billion of us that proves that!
Whatever has happened in a person’s life, the message of love and redemption should always take precedence.
Don’t let anyone make you believe “you’re not worthy”
The weaponization goes both ways. Shame on you if you are single past a certain age in many evangelical circles. And shame on you if you don’t have kids, or don’t have a quiverful. I agree with you on the dangers of making virginity an idol. But that is not a sufficient argument against the perpetual virginity of Mary. According to church tradition, she and Joseph had very good reasons for not consumating the marriage. But that was a unique marriage and should not at all be prescriptive.
A selection from Calvin’s works and sermons on the subject
God has found no reason in her person, to show himself so liberal in exalting her to such a degree of honour, except insomuch as she was low and contempt- ible…. She was but as someone hidden in the dust, to whom God has held out his hand, and chosen to raise.
It is not necessary to look at what she merits, as she herself admonishes us when she says that God has had regard for nothing but her poverty, and that it has been by pure grace that he has chosen her.19
These are weighty expressions, “Behold the handmaid of the Lord”: for she gives and devotes herself unreservedly to God, that he may freely dispose of her according to his pleasure . . . She is convinced of the power of God, follows cheerfully where he calls, trusts also in his promise, and not only expects it, but eagerly desires its accomplishment.
Mary was “blessed,” because embracing in her heart the promise of God, she conceived and brought forth a Saviour to herself and to the whole world…. God offers his benefits indiscriminately to all, and faith opens its bosom to receive them; while unbelief allows them to pass away, so as not to reach us. If there had been any unbelief in Mary, that could not prevent God from accom- plishing his work in any other way which he might choose. But she is called “blessed,” because she received by faith the blessing offered to her, and opened up the way to God for its accomplishment; while unbelief, on the other hand, shuts the gate, and restrains his hand from working, that they who refuse the praise due to its power may not feel its saving effect.
Let us understand that God in the person of her has wished to show us his infinite goodness, in that he has willed that his unique Son take our flesh and our nature, in order to be our brother and our flesh: and that by this means we are able to obtain the heritage of life. Besides let us learn to give such authority to the Virgin Mary as belongs: for otherwise we are not able to be assured of our salvation. It is not necessary to look for what she merits, as she herself admonishes us, in saying that God has regarded only her complete poverty, and that it has been by pure grace that he has chosen her. It suffices us that God wished to make use of her in this respect
We see … the instruction which is given to us by the Virgin Mary, who will be a good mistress on condition that we profit in her school as we should, that we ask it be done to us according to the word of God…. The Virgin Mary is to us here a mirror of the faith we must supply to our God
Let us examine well the power for our edification. Let us do as the Virgin Mary, and say, Lord, that it may be done to me according to thy word, that there may be an inseparable bond between the word of God and his power, . . . and after that, that we know that it will have its effect, that it contains nothing that God may not accomplish, and that he may carry it out as seems good to him.
She is justly called blessed, on whom God bestowed the remarkable honour of bringing into the world his own Son, through whom she had been spiritually renewed. And at this day, the blessedness brought to us by Christ cannot be the subject of our praise, without reminding us, at the same time, of the distinguished honour which God was pleased to bestow on Mary, in making her the mother of his only begotten Son.
See again how well the Virgin Mary attributes everything to the pure goodness of God, because he had done her an honour so great and excellent, that she should be the mother of his unique Son, and that she should carry in her womb the Saviour of the world. Now … we see how she appraises herself, which we must note well in order that we may agree with her, if we wish to render her the praises that she approves and accepts. . . . So let us now learn to praise the holy Virgin. And how? Let us concur with the Holy Spirit (i.e., as he moved Mary in the Magnificat to recognize her singular blessedness, but to glorify God for it); and then there will be genuine praises. . . . We will esteem her as she must be esteemed, in esteeming her as the Holy Spirit teaches us; but it is also necessary that with the praise there be the imitation. . . . When we understand that the Virgin Mary is set up as an example, and confess with her that we are nothing, that we are worth nothing, and that we owe all to the pure goodness of our God, see how we will be disciples of the Virgin Mary and will show that we have well retained her doctrine. And what honour are we able to do her greater than that?
(The Virgin Mary in a Reformation Theology
JAMES A. SHUEL)
Merry Christmas to you all and a Happy New Year when it comes
That.
dee,
Thank you, Dee. God bless your work, and you and your family, always. Merry Christmas, Happy Hanukkah, and a blessed New Year.
What people do or don’t do in their own space is not my concern.
What matters is how you treat others.
I still remain a cultural Christian so I enjoy the spiritual aspects of the Christmas holiday.
So, all best, Ken. Hope you have a good holiday season.
And to the same to all the other worthy folks out there. And you are all 100% certified worthy!
Thank you, Dee, for exploring the topic of Mary. It’s been very interesting and valuable.
Merry Christmas, and hope your day of is peaceful and full of enjoyment.
I agree that virginity and celibacy are used as control mechanisms. It is the control style that is the main challenge for me.
I am challenged when authorities (or others) use manipulative tactics, whether intentional or not, whether it is about virginity, celibacy , marriage or bodily autonomy/freedom of conscience or supposed volunteerism or other division of labor, or financial giving…..How authority is wielded, how history/information is handled, how standards are applied, how abuse issues are handled, etc are all challenges for me, how the authority on those topics is wielded.
I actually don’t have a problem with a special marriage between Joseph and Mary where the instructions may have been to be married without sex, which is not prescriptive for every marriage. I can imagine possibilities of good purpose in that. Not having read all the historical reasoning, I can only imagine. One would hope the reasoning is full of good purpose and according to Scriptures and is beneficial for human beings to draw near to God.
I don’t have a problem with Mary being referred to as the Mother of God, since I was taught the importance of Jesus being fully God and fully human, God’s Son, the Word that was with God in the beginning. The importance of these beliefs were taught to me when I was young in a protestant context. Justice Sonia Sotomayor said she believed what the sisters/nuns (I think I read “sisters/nuns”) taught her. I related to the way she said/wrote that, even though I was taught in a protestant environment. I think the Orthodox beliefs were taught there. I believed as much as I could at the time and have often prayed “help my unbelief.” I think I came away from that background believing in Jesus being The mediator for me/us before God, Our Father. I can’t relate well to praying to other saints, but I can envision a “great hall of witnesses” cheering for us as we run our races on the paths of our existence, and that is a comfort, but is not necessarily the first or only scripture that comes to mind when I pray.
Ella,
I want to add, that even though I do not have a problem with Mary referred to as the “Mother of God” and don’t have a problem with the idea of “perpetual virginity” of Mary: that Joseph and Mary’s marriage was unique, never consummated, I do not understand the insistence of these.
And I should have directed the last paragraph of my previous comment to Max or Lowlander as my thoughts in response to things they posted.
Mary’s pertetual virginity, or a consummation of the marriage of Mary and Joseph…… who’s right, and who’s wrong???
When we get to Heaven, I reckon we could ask God the Father or God the Son. We might even cross paths with Mary and/or Joseph and have the opportunity to ask one, or both, of them.
But, by then, I honestly don’t think any of of will care anymore. I don’t even think it will matter.
I hope you all have a safe and merry Christmas filled with peace, laughter, reminiscing, and beautiful memories!
In most Christian circles it (sex) is strictly regulated and only permissible in a marriage context.
Muff Potter,
Also Jack, Ken F, Nancy2, Ella et al,
Joseph and Mary model the real purpose of marriage: companionship as basis for welcome.
The fixation on private parts reflected what nations had been doing.
The last section of the last chapter of Proverbs does NOT describe wives!
christiane AND others
Please do not post “blink” links without an explination of what you are posting. Especially if it is not obvious to most (even though it is to you) what the web site is about.
The is what spammers do.
Feel free to re-post with an explanation.
GBTC
That. I’ve been thinking of all you Wartburgers (and many other people) that are (or have been) affected by the most recent really bad winter storms.
Stay safe and be well.
Personally I do not believe the Bible teaches the perpetual virginity of Mary. I think that dogma comes straight from making the virginal or celibate somehow better people or better Christians.
That said, I am always amazed that often the same people so willing to call out other sins are absolutely scathing if anyone says sins of the pelvic region are still sins. Which they are. Have not been repealed, and exist for good reasons having nothing to do with patriarchy and control.
Off to fight the blizzard. Ok, mini blizzard, exaggeration is also a sin, lol. But we sure got a driving windy snow yesterday and temps are below zero or right around it for the high, with very cold wind chills around negative 20. Slippery outside, and the birds need extra food and some water, the fire needs to be kept burning hard, and hubby still likes to eat.
Merry Christmas!
GuyBehindtheCurtain,
Dear GBTC,
I’m not sure what a ‘blink’ link is, but I did post a link to a painting of Mary consoling Eve, which is a well-known painting from a nun at a convent-monastery.
Thanks for the invitation to post it again, and for your kind advice.
Merry Christmas to you all.
Sorry to be trouble.
christiane,
Thanks for mentioning this image. I don’t know what a “blink” link is either. But I looked up the image and have never seen it before. And I love what Marg Mowczko posted about it and the poem included in her post. I like the history she points out and the things she points to for readers to notice.
https://margmowczko.com/mary-consoles-eve/
Merry Christmas, everyone!
Thank you, researcher, for thinking of your Wartburg friends. This was my first experience going through a “Bomb Cyclone” with sub-zero temps, blowing snow, and -25 windchill. Praise the Lord for electricity and heating systems! I think of all the folks who don’t have sufficient shelter, clothing and food and pray that they survive with God’s help through His Church and aid organizations.
Merry Christmas!
There is a major denomination where Mary is highly and extravagantly venerated, and has a liturgical calendar well-seasoned with commemorative celebrations.
In “The Making of Biblical Womanhood”, writer historian Beth Allison Barr points out that historically:
1. pre-Luther-Reformation, celibacy and the single life of those who dedicated themselves solely to God’s Good Works was considered a more spiritual life, by the church, theobro church teachers, and thus the church community. Of course, the church benefitted from the free labor.
However:
2. post-Luther-Reformation, the married life with children has been deemed (by church, theobros, teaching, preaching, and church community) the higher spiritual path. The Breadwinner household patriarch “trusts and obeys” church hierarchy with tithes etc., with his dutiful wifey in the background procreating to add numbers to the church.
Barr notes that this Reformation was a step back for the woman, who was deemed more spiritual as domesticated, servile, and silent.
If the Dones and such debunk all of these so-called spiritualities (that are actually snake oil of those Jesus called vipers), perhaps this would be the New Reformation or the Deformation or the Done-formation.
Jack,
Thanks. I too wish for you a joyous Christmas and New Year.
Nuts.
“blind links”. Links with no explanation. People following them are “blind” as to what might show up.
Ava Aaronson,
Interesting thoughts.
They have resonance.
Ella,
thank you, Ella
that was kind of you to post the picture AND the poem/prayer
I hope you have a wonderful, peace-filled, Christmas season. God Bless!
GuyBehindtheCurtain,
Dear GBTC,
thanks for the explanation – it helps 🙂 it actually makes sense
Hope you and yours have a wonderful Christmas season! God Bless!
Three major divisions (Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox).
A good Christmas to all. BTW an ancient hymn done in a not quite so ancient cathedral (Ely, Of the Father’s Love Begotten)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pt75zI4kz6g
Ava–doneformation sounds good to me!
christiane,
Thank you, Christiane.
I hope for the season’s beautiful wonder and peace for you as well.
I’ve no doubt that, to whatever extent it motivated their following Him, the disciples expected Jesus to restore Israel to geo-political significance right up to the end. That expectation was also, surely, behind most of the excitement in Jerusalem on Palm Sunday as well. (There are very strong hints throughout the Gospel accounts supporting this on both counts.) It explains why Jerusalem turned on Him so violently when He was arrested and, as far as they could see, failed so completely.
I’ve been reflecting a lot, lately, on the experience of first-century Judea – including, though not limited to, the Twelve – on what we now call Good Friday. His chosen apostles deserted him and fled, when they weren’t betraying or disowning him (though I suppose Peter was at least near enough to have to do that). But the women didn’t; they remained by the cross.
I have to do some guessing here, obviously. But it seems to me that both Mary’s experienced this at a much more personal level than did the disciples, because He meant something much more personal to them. Maybe with the exception of John, who seems to’ve joined them at the cross. You might say that they embraced the disappointment of following Jesus to the bitter end. There’s something in Mary’s example that I find profoundly moving, and important, at this stage in my own life.
I **LOVE** Of the Father’s love begotten. It’s not well known and very rarely sung; but in the choir I was part of back in my childhood, we did the David Willcocks version, complete with my favourite of all the Christmas descants! (We also sang choral evensong in Ely Cathedral on one occasion.)
I feel the same.
You’ve posted something I can fully understand.
I’ve been looking in vain for Companionship for 50 years.
I call it “cuddly companionship”; my writing partner called it “enjoying her presence”. Unfortunately, all the other words to describe it – “female companionship”, “relationship”, “intimacy” – all have come to mean Meat-in-Meat S*E*X.
Due to a combination of IQ 160 isolation, probable low-end autism, the retarded personality development side effects of the two, an upbringing time-stopped around 1953, four years of High School Hell, and years of covert emotional abuse from a sociopath younger brother, I naturally ended up completely blindsided by the Sexual Revolution shift of the 1960s. Somehow I managed to internalize all the tropes of Christianese Purity Culture without being raised in it, including a serious level of Virgin/Whore Dichotomy.
That said, during my attempts as finding Companionship in the mainstream, all I found was rejection. This was long before Geek Chic. In the various fandoms, I found there can be NO Companionship when S*E*X enters the picture; like a virus infecting a cell, S*E*X will take over anything else until S*E*X is all there is. And there can be NO Companionship when the only thing is Meat-in-Meat. It’s a matter of Trust. (This was not helped by some bad family dynamics of the time putting me under High-Pressure Manipulation to Get Laid, Get Laid, Get Laid.) This only cemented in Sex as Disgusting, Sex as Degrading, Sex as Destructive.
Then, after my breakup with the only girlfriend I ever had (1982-86) I tried dating services (the online dating of its time) before I could get too old. Never got past the first date (i.e. One-Shot All-or-Nothing Job Interview).
The mainstream dating services were mostly all Casual Sex with somebody Tall Dark & Handsome; I should have realized that “sign the contract and the check before we show you anything about our dating service” was a warning sign.
Then I went to a heavily-advertised CHRISTIAN dating service of the time called “Equally Yoked”. (Baggage: “Equally Yoked” means if you don’t marry another CHRISTIAN(TM), God Will Punish You.) That also turned out to be a disaster. No Companionship there. All the “What I’m Looking For” were for an Over-Saved Uber-Christian so Christian that Christ Himself would have fallen short. All the self-descriptions were how Devout and Holy and Christian she was, with NO interests other than Prayer, SCRIPTURE, and Witnessing. Result: WHAT COMPANIONSHIP CAN YOU POSSIBLY HAVE “EQUALLY YOKED” FOR LIFE WITH A WALKING JACK CHICK TRACT? To top it off, I think I got the nastiest rejection of my life (before the first date, even) from another CHRISTIAN dating service. One where the watchword was “Purity”, i.e “Are You PURE”?
That’s the point where I gave up, and now I’m way too old. Never did find that “cuddly companionship”.
If you’re talking Proverbs 31, according to RHE it’s a song of praise Jewish men sing to their wives, telling her how much she means to him.
NOT a checklist of Biblical Womanhood under Threat of God’s Wrath.
I understand the Greco-Roman Fanboy attitude of the Renaissance also had something to do with it, reversing a trend towards what we’d now call “women’s rights” that had been slowly building through the Late Middle Ages. After all, the (pre-Christian) Greeks kept their wimmenfolk barefoo-and-pregnant property, So Must We!
Now back to the original subject of the post: MARY.
Remember “If we must Stand because Enemy Christians Kneel, that is Protestantism taken to it most sterile extreme”?
Well so is “We Must Make Mary and her Womb (never mind the rest of her) only a Necessary Piece of Equipment for the Incarnation because Enemy Christians Venerate Mary (all of her).” Mary had value ONLY as a Womb to Bear Jesus. Like that was her only reason for existence.
(Put that way, sounds like a VERY easy tie-in to Biblical Womanhood, Quiverfull, and “PENETRATE! COLONIZE! CONQUER! PLANT!” for the Man’s Seed and Sons to fill that Quiver. Where the Woman is just a Necessary Piece of Equipment.)
This resonates to me because I grew up as a “Giant Brain in a Jar”, an IQ score floating in mid-air with Utter Disregard for the overwhelmed young kid connected to (and bearing the burden of) that colossal Brain. ANd they have made Miryam of Nazareth into something similar, a Holy Womb floating in mid-air, with total disregard for the woman connected to (and bearing the burden of) that Womb and Who it bore.
Or trolls trying to “surprise” any suckers who click on the link.
Well I don’t know what my IQ is but I had to look up what the “Magnificat” was.
Sounded like a Hanna-Barbera cartoon character.
Honestly though, I find myself asking “what would Scooby do?” more and more often….
Christianity is unknowable to me
I have recently been involved in social media discussions on the topic of Mary’s perpetual virginity. The vitriol against it shocks me. I used reject it, but now I better understand why it was never questioned until the reformation. The only argument against it that is not well refuted is pelvic needs of either Mary of Joseph. Even Calvin rejected the standard arguments against. He seemed to reject it based on conjugal rights, as if pelvic urges matter more than anything else. As for her womb being only a vessel, that is what the Gonostic Valentinians claimed. Irenaeus specifically addressed this error.
I have positive energy toward this idea, without it necessarily implying that it is the only way to do (or not do) the sex part in a full/whole life marriage context that has important parts that are not about sex acts.
This also brings to mind the words “sustainability,” and “willingness to give” nonsexual elements of life together, just my opinion and energy direction.
The vitriol comes from anti Catholic bias
For me, as long as no one uses their beliefs to control or subjugate others with either belief then it’s a nothing burger.
It’s just one more mystery to put on the pile. Each Christian will make their own peace with it.
Rereading Luke over the holidays and in the translation of the bible I have (today’s English version) it’s interesting that the angels say to the shepherds “… peace on earth to those with whom he is pleased” not all people.
Like I said, you can go nuts with this stuff.
That’s why I’m getting off the merry go round.
I recognize I’ll never be really free from it, I’m married to a Christian, and I’m found the programming from birth harder to break than I anticipated.
But I think I can move forward in 2023 with some modicum of balance.
As always, the conversation was sparkling.
The older I get the less certain I am about things I used to think were certain. I don’t know why people get so spin up on either side of the PV argument. Having been brought up to reject it, I find the arguments for it much more compelling, but I don’t see conclusive proof either way. It seems that most, if not all, things related to faith or anti-faith have no definitive proof either way.
Ava Aaronson,
I appreciate your summary framework of Beth Allison Barr’s examination of church history. Thank you.
The words that come to mind, for me, are “aim re-calibration.”
Do you mean the late Rachel Held Evans?
Mary is The Mother of God.
No way around it, no matter how hard the dudebros try to put detour signs around her.
The bible is chock full of the fantastic. From 900 year old people, to oxgoad smackdowns, to talking animals and the raising of the dead.
Perpetual virginity doesn’t seem so implausible by comparison.
Good point.
This is probably the sign of a sick mind, but one of the reasons I like to engage in dialogue with people who have different viewpoints from mine is because I learn so much as I look for resources. I’ve had to change my mind on quite a few issues as a result. It’s a bit frustrating facing some of the toxicity on social media, but even that has benefit (I blocked by a person today when I asked him to explain why he believes my view on perpetual virginity is idoliotic, moronic, and stupid).
I found this link during the social media doalogue- it is a short summary of the main points of contention. It has some points I had not considered. It made me think of things like baseballs and footballs signed by famous athletes, which are displayed in safe places rather than than given to kids to use in street games.
https://conciliarpost.com/christian-traditions/eastern-orthodox/the-perpetual-virginity-of-mary-why-i-changed-my-mind/
Ken F (aka Tweed),
Respectfully Ken, either way doesn’t matter to me, if Mary bore no biological siblings after Jesus, or even if she did, it doesn’t affect my faith (not one electron) that Jesus is the redeemer of all humankind.
It really is a sad commentary on our times (or any time for that matter) when grown men cannot agree to disagree agreeably, and where one has to resort to personal attacks.
And Net Drunk Syndrome (Instant A-Hole, just add Social Media Broadband, Pseudonym, VPN) does NOT help.
Yes.
As in “Drop 500, Fire For Effect”?
No.
I meant “aim” as in personal responsibility and self-care “goals” and calibrated, meaning healthier, helping goals, not political influence/ “marketing agendas.”
She (RHE) was an awesome woman.
Headless Unicorn Guy,
Whatever their custom, doesn’t move me. It illustrates the economy of the household of God (kingdom of heaven) where talents (dearly fetched via Ascension) are traded.