Moonlight over Italy by Astronaut Scott Kelly for NASA
I learned that it is better, a thousand-fold, for a proud man to fall and be humbled, than to hold up his head in his pride and fancied innocence.” – George MacDonald.
Today, I was due to begin a series that involves outlining further concerns for me in the Christian and Missionary Alliance denomination (Yes Ravi’s denomination.) However, we discovered we needed more time to adequately condense what happened. We want to be careful, given all concerns that have been raised regarding RZ’s situation.
However, I discovered a post that demonstrated how a denomination, the Reformed Presbyterian Church in Noth America (RPCNA), not only dealt well with child abuse sex coverup but went further in the discipline of a pastor, Jared Olivetti, and some elders. At the same time, they properly called out the sin even though the individuals have not been convicted of a crime.
Sovereign Grace, ARBCA, and SBC-pay attention!
Why Jared Olivetti was placed on leave in January: @15 boys credibly sexually abused by a young relative of Olivetti and the pastors and some elders accused of covering it up.
December 2021
Olivetti was the subject of an investigation by the IndyStar which was released in December 2021.
An order entered in a Tippecanoe County juvenile court shows investigators identified as many as 15,
…In July of this year, the boy was found by a juvenile judge to be delinquent on what would be multiple felony counts of child molesting and was remanded to a residential facility. (IndyStar is not indicating the relationship between Olivetti and the boy to avoid directly identifying him. The Star does not name juvenile offenders unless they are charged as adults.)In July of this year, the boy was found by a juvenile judge to be delinquent on what would be multiple felony counts of child molesting and was remanded to a residential facility. (IndyStar is not indicating the relationship between Olivetti and the boy to avoid directly identifying him. The Star does not name juvenile offenders unless they are charged as adults.)
…In July of this year, the boy was found by a juvenile judge to be delinquent on what would be multiple felony counts of child molesting and was remanded to a residential facility. (IndyStar is not indicating the relationship between Olivetti and the boy to avoid directly identifying him. The Star does not name juvenile offenders unless they are charged as adults.)
January 2022
Jared Olivetti is officially placed on leave, awaiting an ecclesiastical trial by the RPCNA. He also resigned from his position. USA Today posted Indiana pastor accused of mishandling response to sexual abuse in congregation put on leave:
In July of this year, the boy was found by a juvenile judge to be delinquent on what would be multiple felony counts of child molesting and was remanded to a residential facility. (IndyStar is not indicating the relationship between Olivetti and the boy to avoid directly identifying him. The Star does not name juvenile offenders unless they are charged as adults.)
…Olivetti’s leave was announced to the denomination Thursday afternoon in a letter from the Synod Judicial Commission, a copy of which was obtained by IndyStar. The Synod, which is the national governing body in the Reformed Presbyterian denomination, is currently overseeing the investigation into Olivetti and his fellow elders.
The religious charges against Olivetti were accepted by the commission late last year, but the decision to place him on leave wasn’t announced until Thursday. As of Jan. 2, Olivetti was still preaching at Immanuel.
Here are some of the findings of the investigation.
- Olivetti used “undue, excessive, or improper” influence to shape the church’s response.
- Conflicts of interest were “not understood, ignored — or worse veiled.”
- Church leaders committed a series of failures “to protect and provide the safety” of those in their charge.
- Leaders did not respond with urgency “fitting the gravity of the circumstances.”
- Elders failed to remove Olivetti from all discussions and decisions despite giving the impression he had been recused.
Folks, remember that it is often the elders who are complicit in such circumstances.
Charges presented by those investigators were not accepted by the Presbytery. A second commission has since been convened — the Synod judicial commission — and accepted charges against Olivetti, Magill, Larson and Carr late last year. (ed. The last three names are the elders who were tried along with Olivetti.)
At this point, a judicial trial within the denomination was determined to be the correct way to proceed.
March 2021: Olivetti: Defrocked, excommunicated, and declared to be guilty of dishonoring the name of Jesus Christ.
The Christian Post published: Presbyterian pastor accused of covering up child sex abuse defrocked after investigation.
ared Olivetti, who once pastored Immanuel Reformed Presbyterian Church of West Lafayette but resigned amid allegations of mishandling abuse in January, had his ordination officially revoked last week.
Olivetti, who resigned along with three church elders, has also been removed from the “privileges of Church membership,” according to a report from The Indianapolis Star.
As a result, Olivetti cannot serve as an elder or participate in the sacrament communion.
To make matters worse, Olivetti did NOT participate in the proceedings.
I like this next part since it says what most of us are probably feeling.
He was also found guilty of “threatening dishonor in the name of Jesus Christ, the Reformed Presbyterian Church of North America, Immanuel Reformed Presbyterian Church, and himself.”
Although Olivetti’s not technically guilty via the government judicial system, the denomination acknowledged the gravity of the accusations.
This part is particularly well done. The denomination obviously understands the role of the judicial system in the USA. Some questionable individuals of various denominations (ARBCA, SBC, Sovereign Grace) often claim that churches cannot declare a person guilty without or before a criminal trial.
Olivetti was also suspended by the RPCNA’s synod judicial commission, which noted in a public letter that the suspension did not technically indicate Olivetti’s guilt, but rather “acknowledges the gravity of the accusations against Mr. Olivetti.”
The inactions of Olivetti and his best buddies on the elder board led to distrust and disunity in the presbytery (ed: the church.)
When pastors and elders act in a way that is self-serving, the members get it, and disunity, anger, frustration, and lack of trust are natural outcomes of such inaction.
What the SBC, Sovereign Grace ARBCA, and other churches and denominations need to do and understand
- They cannot hide abuse. It will come out eventually.
- When it does, it should be admitted and dealt with.
- Contact law enforcement immediately.
- Remove the pastor and church officers if there are grave accusations.
If the accusations are grave, do the following three things.
- Defrock the pastor.
- Remove the pastor and elders from communion. They are essentially excommunicated. This step is often disregarded and is essential in order to help members to understand the real issues at stake when a pastor/elder lies.
- Admit that, although there are no criminal charges, the accusations are so grave that action must be taken.
I wish I would see more denominations take these steps. How many of you have ever seen a pastor removed from communion? In all of the stories that I have covered, I have yet to see this happen. If you have, please let me know.
1
Wow! A response that is actually appropriate and based on the “gravity” of the situation. I am shocked – in a good way.
I’m thankful to see that the RPCNA handled this well. May more churches follow their example.
“How many of you have ever seen a pastor removed from communion?”
We’ve seen 2 events where a pastor having an affair with a peer (woman, not a counselee, but member of the community) was publicly removed from his position and his church. One now sells cars, the other is a prof at a community college.
However, in cases of child sexual abuse? Never this type of action. Hmmm… discrediting of minors perhaps?
What does it say about the church at large in The United States when we find ourselves rejoicing (and duly so) for actions that should be the norm but are the exception?
Still holding on to the institutional church by a thread.
“Remove the pastor and church officers if there are grave accusations.”
Indeed … it’s Biblical!
“It is reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and immorality of a kind that even pagans condemn … Shouldn’t you be overwhelmed with sorrow and shame? The man who has done such a thing should certainly be expelled from your fellowship! … Don’t you know how a little yeast can permeate the whole lump? Clear out every bit of the old yeast that you may be new unleavened bread! … It is your plain duty to put away from yourselves that wicked person.” (1 Corinthians 5 Phillips)
And to Yes-Men elders who cover-up sins of the pulpit, Scripture warns:
“Do not hurry to lay hands on anyone [ordaining and approving someone for ministry or an office in the church, or in reinstating expelled offenders], and thereby share in the sins of others.” (1 Timothy 5:22 Amp)
“I wish I would see more denominations take these steps.”
Well, one thing is for sure … until they do, they won’t be under the covering of God or experience His blessing. It just doesn’t work that way!
Exactly. This should not be headline news, but modus operandi by the Church of the Living God.
I have a feeling that God is too.
“… found guilty of “threatening dishonor in the name of Jesus Christ …”
Any “man of the cloth” should feel the sting of this charge … it should pierce his soul. The criminal accusations are serious indeed, but to add dishonoring Christ to the charges should make him shiver. RPCNA has essentially brought him before the court of God, where he will someday be judged again.
Max,
Thx again, Max, for chapter and verse from God’s Word on dealing with this evil, specifically.
For all the hoopla about biblical this and that in churches, one would think there would be loads of teaching and training regarding child sexual abuse. Cases among clergy seem to pop up daily in the news, with LE, & in the DOJ. There certainly is precedent.
Question for attending or joining any local church: What do they teach and nurture (disciple) regarding power (misuse of), sexual vice, and money (greed)?
Admittedly, the Evangelical atmosphere of my upbringing had a lot to do with have a Good Look, Go Get Yours, and Fall in Line (shut up while emptying your pockets). For women and girls, we were to be silently at the behest of men and boys.
It seems the manboys and their fangirls running the show refuse to deal with child sexual abuse in churches, even as clergy are predators.
The case in this post is an exception. Hopefully this becomes the rule not the exception.
A little yeast will permeate the whole lump.
I prefer the phrasing “A thing even the Goyim have no word for””
The Reformed Presbyterian Church of North America has its roots in 17th century Scotland – the Covenanters and The Killing Times. It has 100 congregations in North America and about 7000 members. There are 40 congregations in Ireland with only 5 remaining in Scotland. Between 1963 and 1983 membership in Scotland declined from 548 to 269 although recent indications show renewed growth. Nevertheless the situation in Scotland remains grim. One distinctive feature is that they view the (UK) government since 1690 as illegal and consequently members do not vote in elections (although some do now). I have a personal interest in the wellbeing of the denomination because some of my ancestors were Covenanters and persecuted and I’m currently re-reading their history. I’ had a few interactions with RPCNA ministers on Facebook last year and I have to say that they seemed to have drifted away from their foundations. They were very quick (and angry) to tell me what they were against – almost everything from hair-splitting theological points to the dangers of vaccination. They were much slower in saying what they were for, which I found strange because the Covenanters’ motto and battle cry was (and is) “For Christ’s Crown and Covenant”.
It’s good that they acted quickly and appropriately in this case but I don’t think it signals any significant change in how churches handle abuse.
You mean that Privilege of Pastoral Rank?
(“TOUCH NOT MINE ANOINTED!!!!”?)
“That ain’t workin’
That’s the way to do it –
Play the guitar on M-T-V!
That ain’t workin’
That’s the way to do it –
Money for Nuthin’ and the chicks for free!”
— Dire Straits, “Money for Nothing”, 1985
“I want my, I want my, I want my MTV”
Was never a fan of this song.
But it is so appropriate.
Ezekiel warns us of taking for granted our favor and royalty with God our Heavenly Father, only to allow ourselves to be used by predators… not even for pay, like a harlot but for NOTHING.
I would venture to note that one can find oneself in such a pickle with “church”. Creator God has delivered us and cleaned us up for FREE, because He loves us. Do we then allow ourselves to be used like an unpaid harlot by snake oil salesmen in “church”?
Ezekiel 16.
This post by Dee piqued my interest in various denoms.
Last night I found the Cooperative Baptist Fellowship, CBF. Umbrella Org looked good until perusing their local church websites. All male leadership. No professional women found anywhere. Lots of “Reformed” in their church names. What does that mean?
Ava Aaronson,
Hello
I think in the broadest sense it is linked to the Swiss Reformation/Magisterial Reformation- in other words adhering to or your influenced by the teachings of John Calvin and the subsequent Reformed Creeds and Confessions. I’ve just bought James Dennison’s 4 volume “Reformed Confessions of the 16th and 17th Centuries (1523-1695) and it’s absolutely marvellous (imo). It starts off with Zwingli’s 67 Articles (1523)and ends with the Baptist Catechism (1695).
The problem is that the word ‘Reformed’ has been detached from its historical and theological roots in many cases nowadays.
I meant to add there are 127 Confessions!
The three action items are excellent ideas. And I’m a bit shocked to hear a Reformed church doing this (they tend to go after complainers, not leadership). But outside of #3, nearly impossible to do in any denomination where ordination is at a congregational level vice a hierarchal one.
#1 can be done IF the church were the pastor (elder, deacon) is serving is the one which ordained him/her. Otherwise, they can only inform the ordaining church of the events (if that church still exists) but they can’t order them to do anything. A solution (which can be included in the bylaws) is that the congregation can refuse to recognize the ordination of another person (it doesn’t invalidate it, though), or require him/her to be ordained by that congregation (whereupon they can defrock him/her if needed).
#2 is also tricky where open communion is practiced. However, the First Amendment right to religious freedom goes both ways; a congregation can refuse membership to anyone (or revoke it) and ban them from facilities (of course, we’ve heard horror stories — and told a few on this site — about people who were escorted out of a church because they dared challenge “the Lord’s anointed”).
(For some reason, the reply function isn’t working)
“Ava Aaronson–Last night I found the Cooperative Baptist Fellowship, CBF. Umbrella Org looked good until perusing their local church websites. All male leadership. No professional women found anywhere. Lots of “Reformed” in their church names. What does that mean?”
Reformed theology (also called Calvinism) is that branch of theology initially formulated by John Calvin (though he actually plagiarized Augustine). It teaches that 1) humans are so depraved they can’t make any decision to follow God, 2) God has “elected” some to be saved and the rest to be condemned, solely at His own discretion, 3) Jesus Christ didn’t die for the entire world, only for those “elected” under #2, 4) a human so “elected” under #2 is compelled to accept the “grace” offered under #3, and 5) such a person can’t be “unelected” for any reason at all. It turns God into a sadistic monster and negates a HUGE chunk of both the Old and New Testament scriptures. (But tell a Calvinist that, they’ll accuse you of “denying God’s sovereignty” and all other manner of falsehoods.)
For more in-depth explanation, purchase “What Love Is This?” by Dave Hunt.
I’m a bit surprised to hear that the CBF has a lot of Reformed Baptist churches in its fold. CBF is fairly liberal in its doctrine whereas Reformed is hardline conservative.
You only say that because you don’t understand Calvinism. 😉
But to be fair, no one understands Calvinism. Not even Calvinists. Not even Calvin himself.
Highly recommend it! A scholarly work that refutes the tenets of hyper-Calvinism, which 90+% of Christendom have rejected for the last 500 years. Hunt paints an accurate picture of the Calvinist God, which is not the God of Christianity.
Well, I wouldn’t call folks like Paige Patterson “liberal” … he was co-architect of SBC’s Conservative (aka Calvinist) Resurgence. Compared to hard-line Calvinists, I suppose he would appear liberal. A one-time staunch anti-Calvinist, Patterson was duped by Mohler during the CR days, which opened the door to New Calvinism. Thus, for that reason, I join you by being “surprised to hear that the CBF has a lot of Reformed Baptist churches in its fold” (?!!).
In the News
https://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2022/march-web-only/we-fell-short-in-protecting-our-employees-editorial.html
The Cooperative Baptist Fellowship, CBF, claims to have split from the SBC due to their treatment of women.
As I noted above, this is not evident looking at local CBF churches’ websites with their leadership displayed. And the “Reformed” in their church names.
Jerome,
Why don’t the Christian orgs, including churches, just do what all other places of employment do nowadays… train and hold accountable all employees regarding sexual harassment?
Workplaces have yearly training with licensed credentialed professionals required to keep the job. It’s not special. No investigations. No Denhollander, who is a dear person who went through stuff and stood up to stuff, but neither a labor lawyer nor a professionally trained credentialed HR consultant.
Odd that the Christian institutions make a big deal about women (subversion of, etc., with chapter and verse) but they are inept in dealing with sexual harassment in a professional employment setting.
A church is a professional employment setting. So are the media orgs, nonprofits, etc., under the Christian umbrella.
Why are the Xian orgs constantly doing the backdoor sidedoor dance?
I think one of the earlier posts has gotten CBF and CBN mixed up.
CBF is Cooperative Baptist Fellowship, which broke away from SBC after the Conservative Resurgence in opposition to it. Reformed churches would consider it “liberal” (as it allows women pastors) so I can’t see any Reformed church wanting to join it.
CBN is Conservative Baptist Network, which claims that the SBC has gone “woke” and wants to “restore conservatism” to it. Many of its churches ARE Reformed (it works closely with Founders Ministries, which wants to “return” the SBC to its “Reformed roots”). Patterson is part of the latter.
There have been Reformed churches which have left SBC (as groups such as Protestia and Reformation Charlotte have reported) but they’ve essentially gone independent (but not IFB independent, IFB’s generally oppose Calvinism, example being Dave Hunt).
I just did a search on the CBF website, typing in my ZIP Code and searching within 100 miles. I see a lot of “First Baptist Church” listings, ZERO with Reformed in their name.
But I can’t find any listing of churches which are part of the CBN, even on their own website.
So not wanting to start a fight, could someone post a link to what site was used?
My comments have been regarding the Cooperative Baptist Fellowship, and I was looking at their website and list of local churches in the USA.
That would be Worldly/Fleshly.
Isaiah 55:9/Joshua 24:15, anyone?
Because the secular trainings include relationships which are perfectly fine IF CONSENSUAL, but are unacceptable in Evangelical milieus. (And keep in mind that, for example, a female manager preying on a female subordinate is *not* consensual by any stretch of the imagination.) The situations we were presented with in our training were *very* thorough. Basically, “don’t sexually harass your fellow employees no matter what their orientation is.”
Here’s the Christianity Today article about sexual harassment at Christianity Today: https://www.christianitytoday.com/news/2022/march/sexual-harassment-ct-guidepost-assessment-galli-olawoye.html
I speculated on another website whether it’s appropriate for CT to investigate itself. This is a very good question but really, who is going to do it? CT is pretty much by itself at the top of the heap of Evangelical publications, both in genealogy and history. I mused that a group like ProPublica (a non-profit newspaper cooperative) could be brought in, but I think a lot of things would simply be missed because a ProPublica reporter may not have the background. Alternately, CT could have released the Guidepost Solutions report, but I’m thinking, based on this quote: ‘On March 13, Guidepost concluded that while there was no “wider pattern or culture of systemic harassment,” CT could do better.’ that the report would have been a wash and the CT article is more hard-hitting than the report would be.
So if the secular bar is set so low, why is it that the Christian orgs have so many cases of pedos, predos, perverts, and harassment?
Doesn’t make sense.
In any case, the training you mention at your workplace would be a major improvement for these Christian orgs, it seems.
It took lawsuits for workplaces to finally get it right … they’re aware of consequences if they don’t preventatively address sexual harassment, etc.
Consequences.
Fine. God’s Heavenly ways are high above the Earth.
However, Jesus said we are not above giving a thirsty man a cup of water.
IOW, God is practical in an Earthly sense. So HR training at a workplace just might be appropriate.
They will rarely put the word “Reformed” in their name. It doesn’t sell well the rank and file. My former SBC church did exactly that.
Mark R,
I’m sorry if I did that. Could you point me to the post and I will clarify that. I do know the difference,
Do you remember when Galli accused Wade Burleson and me of violating the commandments when we exposed Ed Stetzer’s car deal with james MacDonald? Well I do and I am really mad about this. When I calm down I will write a post on this.
Good.
The puzzle pieces fit. Sometimes the guy who seems like a good guy is not. Two-faced. Forked tongue. (i.e. Hybels.)
There was an audio recording of this guy (while at a publishing event in Singapore) talking over a phone to some guy podcasters where the conversation goes South regarding women. Since the original internet airing, it has disappeared, not surprisingly.
Then sexual harassment at CT shows up.
It’s whack-a-mole coverup, show up. Meanwhile there are women trying to maintain jobs, or marriages, or fangirling.
The underground water table river of truth and reality flows with a fierce current. Beneath. Jesus cuts to the chase. Good luck whack-a-moling in God’s territory.
One aspect of Christian fellowship is putting together puzzle pieces to reveal a portrait. Sometimes the reveal is simply the truth about wolves in sheeps’ attire.
But such here-and-now practicality is more Jewish.
American Christianese Culture Over-Spiritualizes everything.
Like the “Pneumatic” Gnostics of old, the goal is to become so SPIRITUAL they are no longer human.
Like a Silicon Valley Geek obsessed with uploading his consciousness into the Cloud at the Singularity, leaving the Meat behind in Meatspace to live forever as a Max Headroom string of ones and zeros.
In any case, it’s more Jesus.
Jesus said whatever you do to the least of these, feed & clothe, you do to me. My understanding is that Jesus was not referring to Metaverse initiatives.
From OT Jewish to NT Jesus to Here & Now until Jesus comes again.
Perhaps the Metaverse spiritualists can enjoy their virtual cup of cold water when thirsty. Luke 16.19-31.
Good point, and it explains a lot.
In fundagelical culture, sex outside of marriage is the absolute worst thing there is.
You (generic you) can pull the wings off flies, bilk investors out of huge piles of moolah, you name it, and it’s all water under the bridge.
Just don’t get caught having unauthorized sex with a consensual adult partner.
If you do, your goose is cooked.
And yet they’ll use Archimedes lever to ‘restore’ an adult youth leader who’s found to be a Chester the molester type.
Their’s really is a weird religion.
Mainline denominations have been doing this for decades. Training covers seminary students, pastors, teachers, office staff, volunteers, anybody who has access to children, anybody who provides counseling. In some denominations, even the spouses of seminary students undergo counseling to make sure they know that the life can be hard.
No system is perfect. Still, it frustrates me that churches and denominations refuse to believe safety practices exist, and they are free to adapt and improve upon them. The don’t even have to borrow ideas from “the world” [shudder].
Cricket:
And it’s disaster for Englandshire as Dan Lawrence is caught at cover off Jason Holder for 91 on the penultimate ball of Day One. He was going so well, too.
No need to bring in a night watchman, though; the umpires have declared stumps for the day. Root still in on 119 with the visitors closing on 244-3. Lawrence will be kicking himself, despite setting a new career best Test score.
Another point for Nickism there.
I’ve a soft spot for it, OTOH – it was my first ever one as lead singer of a band, back in my Cambridge days. As I was a last-minute stand-in for a friend’s band whose lead singer had just gone down with laryngitis, we didn’t rehears it either! Happy days.
Nick Bulbeck,
Not mention Mark Knopfler’s guitar work.
Top notch and original.
dee,
Yup, I remember…. same opera, different act, with respect to how “Christian orgs” respond when someone blows the whistle on them…. Immediately attack the whistle blower..
You are right. The investigative journalism by Daniel Silliman is much harder-hitting and clearer than the Guidepost report. I had read the Guidepost report first (It is actually linked in both Silliman’s article and the one by the current CEO Timothy Dalrymple) and came away much with a different impression of the severity than I got from Silliman’s article. Silliman used names and Guideposts did not and Silliman also provided more specific quotes/examples which paint a more vivid picture than the Guidepost report. It’s good that they published the Guidepost report and also authorized a journalistic investigation. Silliman’s article left me with my jaw hanging open at some of the stuff that had gone on. Guideposts used much vaguer descriptions which failed to convey the clear nature of the transgressions committed.
One of the beauties of Nickism is its intended inability for anyone to understand it. As a consequence, one of the greatest compliments one can receive is to be told, “You obviously don’t understand Nickism.” But it’s possible I don’t correctly misunderstand Nickism.
Wolves in sheep’s clothing? Nah, the wolves have found that shepherd’s clothing works much better.
Not Wolves, Max.
Feral (if not rabid) junkyard dogs.
Wolves have more class than that.
I wonder if the relative who committed the abuse was a son of Jared Olivetti? He certainly went to great lengths to cover it up protect the relative.