Remember the Ukrainian people!
“A Christian reveals true humility by showing the gentleness of Christ, by being always ready to help others, by speaking kind words and performing unselfish acts, which elevate and ennoble the most sacred message that has come to our world.” Ellen G. White
Over the last week or so, I have seen a new term being used: #sacredvictimhood. This is used in a fashion that seems to demean the pain and suffering of sex abuse victims, particularly in the SBC. Today, I saw it used again and knew that we need to figure out why this term is being used.
This has been a hard time for the SBC. Thye have been forced to deal with the numerous examples of sex abuse in SBC churches and sometimes associated parachurch ministries. Al Mohler once said that a dark day would come for the SBC and it is here. For some who love the SBC, the numerous example of abuse seems overwhelming. Maybe they think “Not all of these are true and maybe those victims are making a big deal out of nothing. Why are they dwelling on this anyway? There are souls to save and a denomination in disarray. Even Ed Litton is going to quit after one year.”
Sadly, they do not seem to realize that they may suffer the same fate as the Roman Catholic Church. People will leave the SBC, wondering if the pastors they see in the pulpit are covering up abuse in the church. Absolute transparency, humility, and repentance are necessary. Even more important is the need for these folks to attempt to understand the life-changing, soul-draining aspects of sexual abuse.
Today’s self-assured celebrity leaders and mega congregations appear to believe that God’s blessings are upon them. Have they read the Gospels? Jesus reached out to those ostracized by the “good” religious people of that day. He went to the lepers who were forced into an impoverished, solitary life, subsisting on the bits of food tossed at them by the religious people from a distance.
Today’s abuse survivors are treated in a similar fashion. Unlike the lepers whose pain is readily visible in the missing toes and limbs, the abuse victims carry their pain inside with broken hearts and souls that only the most perceptive will see. So long as they shut up and stop getting attention, they will be thrown today’s equivalent of some old bread…a conference or two and a few book deals. Then the celebrity leaders will decide to go on to the next subject such as racial reconciliation or CRT. Those folks will also get thrown a bone or two as well.
Jesus is far more interested in the abused than he is in those flashy megachurches that run perfectly. After all, fog machines are hardly essential for a good salvation experience. Seriously, I believe that we will be seeing more of the #sacredvictimhood tweets in the days to come.
Andy Savage buys a $3 million dollar church building and asks that you go to Amazon to furnish it
Jules and I spoke this morning on the subject of Savage’s brand new church. She still remembers, as do I, the first days of her story going viral. Chris Conlee and Andy Savage said something to this effect.
We are saddened that Ms Woodson is not on the same path to healing that we have experienced.
Isn’t it nice that Savage got healed? Too bad Jules wasn’t as “spiritually strong” as they are. No wonder things didn’t go well for them. If you are not familiar with her story here is one of many posts that I wrote: I Thought He Was Taking Me for Ice Cream: One Woman’s #MeToo Story of Molestation By Her Former Youth Pastor, Andy Savage
Also, please see Amy Smith’s many stories on her website Watchkeep. Here is one.
Here is a link to Andy Savage’s Grace Valley Church.
The $3 million church.
Special thanks go to @TimInNorthlake who posted this information. If you have further questions, I know he’ll have the answer.
The Amazon wish list.
Here is a link to that wish list. Looks like they are going with Amazon Fresh coffee.
What does Andy believe about abuse victims?
Victim-thinking
I love to read church websites, thoroughly. You might be surprised at what I find. I went to the “about us” section and zeroed in on the “Our Aims” section. Under COURAGE it says:
3. Courage
I will combat shame, lies, and victim-thinking in my life. I will pursue emotional fitness and authentic relationships through transparency and vulnerability about my struggles, failures, emotions, desires, and dreams—with people I trust. I will lead the way in surrender, sacrifice, and service and share my story to benefit others.
It appears that he finds “victim thinking” (whatever that is) problematic he could mean one of two things:
- He is a victim so he is going to courageously deal with it with the help of “people he trusts. (whoever they are.)”
- Someone else is the victim and they need to “courageously get over it.
I have a circle (sounds like Mark Driscoll)
I wonder if Andy is going to have intimate circles with those he trusts? Read the following under AIMS.
Wisdom
I will refuse to be wise in my own eyes. I will pursue self-awareness and personal growth by inviting feedback and counsel from those in my circle.
This all sounds a bit like Driscoll’s 10 loyalty circles of hell
I spent lots of time looking at his site and I noticed something missing. If I am wrong, please correct me. There is not a list of elders, deacons, or anything about those in his circle. My question is this. How can you trust him or his church? I wouldn’t give them a dime until I knew “who is who” in the running of the church and keeping Savage in line.
Why Andy Savage isn’t King David
I get so tired of those who think that David should serve as our example of why a pastor can return to the pulpit after molesting a teenager in his church. Folks, read your Old Testament. David was not a priest in the Temple. He was a king, not a religious leader. The people kept asking for a king because they wouldn’t rely on God to lead them. God gave them a king with a kingly heritage meaning the kids would take the throne, just like everyone else. The kings of Israel were not treated like priests. In fact, if one reads the Scriptures, most of the kings “did evil in the sight of the Lord.” Guess what? They were not removed unless the land was invaded by the Babylonians and various assorted other groups.
If David was a priest, it is highly likely he would have gotten the boot since those guys were supposed to try to look somewhat Godly. The kings did what kings do through time immemorial. Bad stuff. Just like our leaders today. For example, how many of our Presidents had what is commonly thought of as affairs (although many were coercive, to say the least?) Tell me how many of them were removed by the people, much less by God.
So, if one is Biblically illiterate and tries to make the argument that Savage is like King David, I will be displeased and will try not to make fun of you.
Scripture is clear. If a pastor does what Savage did to Jules, he can be restored…TO THE CONGREGATION. He can be a member of the Body of Christ. He. doesn’t get to go behind a pulpit with his secret circles of intimates. Good night! What are they teaching in churches these days?
Sacred Victims
Andy may not see it. His followers probably won’t as well. But Jesus sees victims as #sacredvictims. He loves them dearly and seeks to mend their broken hearts, no matter how long that takes and it can take decades.
#IStandwithsacredvictims #I Standagainstsacredvictimhood.
I plan to do lots of reading to see if this nonsense was dreamed up by some committee somewhere. Something smells here.
Admittedly I am one of the lurking non-Christians; however, I note I Chronicles 22:6-8 where David is not permitted to build the Temple because he had shed much blood. That doesn’t seem to allow pastors who’ve abused their flock to point to David as an excuse to why they should be allowed to continue to build churches.
Luke 3.8, Acts 3.8 and Zacchaeus = dealing with sin, predation, predators.
Matthew 8:1–4, Mark 1:40–45 and Luke 5:12–16. Jesus heals a leper.
Leprosy and other afflictions that have nothing to do with personal choice require healing.
Predation, OTOH, is a willful, sinful personal choice. A personal decision to commit evil, preying on an innocent person.
Predation requires full disclosure confession, then repentance, and the fruit/evidence of repentance, aka reparations.
“Healing” a predator or healing of predation is not possible.*
*Reference: the work of Roy Hazelwood, FBI profiler of sex crimes and generally regarded as the pioneer of profiling sexual predators.
(Hazelwood was also a lifelong Christian, active in his church.)
Erp,
You are a very observant non-Christian! Thank you.
Having a tough time with the Amazon list picking between the mini-crib sheet, Nintendo Switch, and Conair hair dryer… trying to figure out which one is the most “worthy“…
https://www.gracevalleymemphis.org/about
“At Grace Valley church we sincerely want to build a church culture that is not based on an individual personality or name.”
Perhaps because posting a biography and having pictures and names of the staff on the page might be problematic for some?
They do appear to freely share some other information:
https://www.gracevalleymemphis.org/give
“Grace Valley Church is a registered 501(c)(3) entity and all gifts and contributions to Grace Valley Church are tax-deductible.”
Other specific details when it comes to the financial side appear seem to be freely shared as well:
“Brokerage account (for donations of stocks and securities):
Pershing, LLC
One Pershing Plaza
Jersey City, NJ 07399”
Regarding David being “restored,” a more appropriate example for disqualified pastors can be found in Ezekiel.
Ezekiel 34:7-10: “Therefore, you shepherds, hear the word of the Lord: As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign Lord, because my flock lacks a shepherd and so has been plundered and has become food for all the wild animals, and because my shepherds did not search for my flock but cared for themselves rather than for my flock, therefore, you shepherds, hear the word of the Lord: This is what the Sovereign Lord says: I am against the shepherds and will hold them accountable for my flock. I will remove them from tending the flock so that the shepherds can no longer feed themselves. I will rescue my flock from their mouths, and it will no longer be food for them.”
Or Ezekiel 44:10-13: “The Levites who went far from me when Israel went astray and who wandered from me after their idols must bear the consequences of their sin. They may serve in my sanctuary, having charge of the gates of the temple and serving in it; they may slaughter the burnt offerings and sacrifices for the people and stand before the people and serve them. But because they served them in the presence of their idols and made the people of Israel fall into sin, therefore I have sworn with uplifted hand that they must bear the consequences of their sin, declares the Sovereign Lord. They are not to come near to serve me as priests or come near any of my holy things or my most holy offerings; they must bear the shame of their detestable practices.”
You note that David’s kids would inherit the throne as is typical of all kings. It is theoretically typical in our western european culture, but it is not typical in all cultures – in fact, David himself did not inherit his kingship, he wrested it through trickery and seceit the way it so often happens. (Jonathan was the heir.) And even inside the bubble of our own chivalric kingship teleologies, as but one example, comes William of Normandy to put an end to centuries of warring Anglo-Saxon kingdoms (and Anglo-Saxon itself)…followed by Plantagenets, Tudors, and currently, Coburgs. Kings followed kings…until they didn’t (Mary Queen of Scots, Elizabeth, Victoria, and another Elizabeth). In the book The Dawn of Everything by two others both named David, history is laid out showing an entropic variety of governmental paradigms, with kings chosen in manners not remotely similar to birth order inheritance.
Dee,
thanks for showing the ‘colors’ of Ukraine in your photograph.
My own godmother of blessed memory came from people who left Ukraine when they were being starved and settled in Johnstown, PA. She was raised in the Byzantine Catholic liturgy and I benefitted from her example and her goodness. I mourn for the children who have been murdered by Putin. Today, I’m wearing blue and yellow in memory of my godmother and her heritage.
“Al Mohler once said that a dark day would come for the SBC and it is here.” (Dee)
A dark day dawned in 1993 when the young Mohler became President, Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, birthing the New Calvinist movement in SBC.
There have been darker days, of course, for the victims of sexual abuse within SBC. But the Mohlerites have brought dark days of authoritarian & theological abuse to mainline (non-Calvinist) Southern Baptists … his band of NeoCals have planted aberrant theology, taken over countless churches by stealth and deception, and scattered the SBC flock.
“Jesus is far more interested in the abused than he is in those flashy megachurches that run perfectly.”
The Lord is near the brokenhearted (Psalms 34:18). He could care less about big screens, fog machines, and skinny jeans. Mega-members jump and sing to the beat of the drum of another gospel. Meanwhile, Jesus looks for the abused and brokenhearted to reveal Himself to them in their pain … while mega-mania moves maniacally without Him.
“… Biblically illiterate and tries to make the argument that Savage is like King David …”
Here we go again. Another opportunity for the non-spiritual to drag David into their mess. David was in the military, not the ministry. David was an Old Testament king, not a New Testament pastor. There are no examples in the NT where a pastor who fell morally was restored to ministry. Forgive Mr. Savage if he genuinely repents? Certainly. Restore him to ministry? Absolutely not! He has disqualified himself from this sacred office.
“What are they teaching in churches these days?”
Another gospel which is not ‘the’ Gospel at all.
Israel shouted “Give us a King!” … so God gave them what they wanted but sent leanness to their soul. The result of lean souls in the 21st century church are obvious across the American landscape. The beat goes on without God in the house.
“Andy Savage buys a $3 million dollar church building and asks that you go to Amazon to furnish it”
Nothing … nothing … nothing surprises me anymore about what’s going on in the American church. I’m sure the congregation of his new church has already given Mr. Savage a standing ovation or two.
“My circle” … the “inner ring” … will pay a price for putting him in the pulpit again:
“Do not hurry to lay hands on anyone [ordaining and approving someone for ministry or an office in the church, or in reinstating expelled offenders], and thereby share in the sins of others” (1 Timothy 5:22 AMP)
Oh, but there’s nothing in Scripture about buying one that is already built! Yep, supporters of fallen “pastors” conveniently ignore certain Scripture even when they liken their idol to David.
Keep reading Scripture, Erp!
“I will remove them from tending the flock so that the shepherds can no longer feed themselves.”
A passage you will never hear preached in American pulpits, but certainly an appropriate sermon for the days in which we live. The words of Ezekiel are just as timely in the 21st century as they were in 600 B.C.
Wartburgers, sorry for the flood of comments on this post. I had time on my hands this morning and growing increasingly irritated about the condition of the American church. I’ll decrease now so others can increase.
JDV,
I always stress hair dryers for the last minuted touch ups after baptism…
JDV,
Good pickup!
d4v1d,
Great comment!
christiane,
That’s the fun thing about having your own blog. You can post pictures like this.
Max,
So Max…what did you buy for Savage?
Max,
I always love your comments and look forward to reading them. Including the disclaimer you posted last! I appreciate your wisdom and spiritual insight.
Keep it coming.
I’m thinking about the toilet plunger for obvious reasons.
Appreciated your comments, Max.
I can’t for the life of me figure out why 30 cans of Diet Dr. Pepper and 35 cans of Diet Coke? No regular soda? No caffeine free? No 7 Up? Only a handfull of cans for a whole church? What gives? (Well, so far, nobody.)
Nothing about honesty on the aspirational values of Grace Valley Church.
Christiane, I hear you. There are many people of Ukrainian descent in PA (my state), the areas around Pittsburgh, Erie and Scranton-Wilkes Barre in particular. (Lots of E. Europeans in all of those places, period, but the western part of the state has the highest concentration.)
Makes me think of the opening of “The Deer Hunter,” with elaborate preparations for either an Orthodox or Ukrainian Catholic wedding, then the service and reception. The elderly babushkas trying to safeguard the wedding cake as they carry it up a steep hillside (very normal terrain out there) is both true to life and priceless
d4v1d,
I’ve just starting reading “The Dawn of Everything” after hearing about it, including an interview with David Wengrow, on the Tides of History podcast.
It’s been my observation during 70+ years of doing church in America that most preachers are overweight (bless their hearts), except for the ones who play golf all week.
Whether spiritual or non-spiritual, the whole king David thing gets old, it really does.
I think Cimino’s film The Deer Hunter was the best film about that era to come out. Ever been to a Polish wedding? I too am a Vietnam era vet.
Really. No matter who you are, modern-day putz, you’re not King David.
d4v1d,
1 Samuel 16 refutes your idea that David gained the throne through trickery. (There are other verses as well) . Your potted history of the Kings and Queens of England is a bit better but not much.
These guys (neo-Cals and the like) will all agree that “pastor” and “elder” are pretty much interchangeable in the Bible and therefore the qualifications are the same. I am in the same camp and believe that. What we often refer to as Pastor is really just a paid elder.
That being said, it seems that the NT teaches that in addition to simply meeting the I Tim 3 qualifications, it would make sense that the local body should be able to determine who is the “most qualified” or best equipped to serve as an elder.
For example: If there are ten “qualified” candidates to fill eight openings, and two of the ten, many years ago committed a potentially disqualifying sin that we all forgive them of, you would think that it would be clear who the eight are that make the cut. It does not mean that the other two are any less repentant or that God does not forgive them. The two that do not make the cut may have an unquestionable track record the last ten years. Nonetheless, It just means that God’s will is clear about the other eight. None of the other eight have a felony in their past, so they pass the vetting process. None of the other eight ever abused the office.
In addition…. If we look at the two candidates that are “qualified today” but have something in their past that permanently disqualifies them…. Let’s call it a stumbling block to some, or something that would divide the church….. One would think that a sign of their true repentance would be that they do not seek the office of elder, pastor, etc… A sign of their current mature, repentant state would be that they get a regular job and not expose the body to harm or division.
Obviously, the Andy Savage story is pretty black and white. But there are other issues that come to mind. I know a pastor that I think is repentant, but he stole money from his church 30 years ago. How about an affair between two adults? I know a man that confessed to this sin 40 years ago and he saved his marriage. He teaches a Sunday School class, but was never an elder again.
So my point is, did this Grace Valley Church even attempt to seek out other qualified leaders? Or is it the “pastor as CEO” model that makes people suck up to people like Andy Savage? I guess Andy owns the place. I wish we set the bar higher for what passes as an elder.
Dee, as a former 4 gen. Seventh-Day Adventist, I would please ask you to not quote anything from their false prophetess Ellen G. White.
She was a master plagiarist who rubber stamped many unbiblical teachings by saying “an angel showed me…”
Thankfully, God led my husband and I out of that cult 20 years ago. We are free from her demonic teachings but have many friends and family who are still deceived.
The bar has been set …
“Here is a trustworthy saying: Whoever aspires to be an overseer desires a noble task. Now the overseer is to be above reproach, faithful to his wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, not given to drunkenness, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money. He must manage his own family well and see that his children obey him, and he must do so in a manner worthy of full respect. (If anyone does not know how to manage his own family, how can he take care of God’s church?) He must not be a recent convert, or he may become conceited and fall under the same judgment as the devil. He must also have a good reputation with outsiders, so that he will not fall into disgrace and into the devil’s trap” (1 Timothy 3:1-6).
“An elder must be blameless, faithful to his wife, a man whose children believe and are not open to the charge of being wild and disobedient. Since an overseer manages God’s household, he must be blameless—not overbearing, not quick-tempered, not given to drunkenness, not violent, not pursuing dishonest gain. Rather, he must be hospitable, one who loves what is good, who is self-controlled, upright, holy and disciplined. He must hold firmly to the trustworthy message as it has been taught, so that he can encourage others by sound doctrine and refute those who oppose it” (Titus 1:6-9).
“of good reputation, full of the Holy Spirit and wisdom” (Acts 6:3).
Sandra Ford,
I am so sorry. I visit quote sites looking for something that fits the theme. I often do not know those whom I quote, especially if they have innocuous names. However, your warning is correct. I will be more careful.
“LOOPHOLE! LOOPHOLE!”
Looking for loopholes (no matter how much they have to stretch) is the type of behavior associated with CROOKED Lawyers.
FreshGrace,
Ditto.
I just blogged about the following at my Daisy blog.
It reminds me of Matt Chandler’s church harassing that lady who was married to the pervert pedo she wanted to leave.
There are elements of that in this story, where MacArthur and his cronies spent months, according to the article, harassing this lady, and shaming her in public for wanting to divorce her sicko, creepo of a husband, David Gray.
John MacArthur Shamed, Excommunicated Mother for Refusing to Take Back Child Abuser
https://julieroys.com/macarthur-shamed-excommunicated-mother-take-back-child-abuser/
From the article:
Today, David Gray is serving 21 years to life in a California prison for his 2005 convictions for aggravated child molestation, corporal injury to a child, and child abuse.
…As Eileen explained in an exclusive interview with The Roys Report, she went to GCC elders, hoping they would protect her and her children and get David professional help.
Instead, she says the church subjected her to spiritually abusive counseling and used church discipline to try and coerce her to take David back into the family’s home.
I am still reading through that Roys Report on JMac’s church and how they totally mistreated the wife.
It goes from bad to worse as I read along.
What a train wreck.
Even though the church guys knew that the husband was abusing his own kids, they did fire him from their church but advised her and her husband for him to apply to teach music classes or whatever at a local junior high school (!!)
The church guys wrongly instructed the wife that professional counseling is “worldly” and “wrong” (!!)
Then, they go on to act like total enablers by instructing her to forgive her abusive husband EVEN IF he does not repent.
The article says:
“Hardy counseled Eileen to forgive David “even if he wasn’t repentant,” Eileen testified. “He would teach me over and over ‘the threefold promise of forgiveness’ . . .” she stated, “where you act as though it never happened, and you never bring it up again, and you never tell anyone about it.””
“…Eileen also testified that Hardy urged her to allow David back into the family’s home and to model for the children how to “suffer for Jesus” by enduring David’s abuse.”
-that is enabling.
That Hardy guy is being what is referred to as a “flying monkey” (those are people who minimize, excuse, or rationalize abuse by narcissists, or who keep asking the victim of the abuse to just keep putting up with it, don’t leave the guy, give the abuser a third, fourth, etc chance).
The wife asked to be removed from JMac’s church membership, and the church refused.
There’s a section of the article entitled,
“Letters, harassment, and stalking”
One letter from the JMac church to this lady reads in part:
“…“forgive David, allow him to move back home, and once again follow his leadership as Scripture teaches.””
That same letter also says,
“.. “has become obvious . . . that David is not a ‘mental case’” and “doesn’t need a ‘psychological evaluation.’ He is a sinner who can, by God’s grace, change and grow.””
Yikes. It sounds to me as though David, the husband, is some where on the narcissism spectrum, and prayer, barfy “wifely submission,” and God will not change that.
There is no “cure” for it, and narcissism is very resistant to therapy, even by psychologists who specialize in it!
Article continues – a couple from the church went to the house to tell this lady she was in sin for not reconciling.
Roys later interviewed this same couple, a Priscilla and George, and oh the naïveté – the other lady, Priscilla, said something to Roys like, “I never saw David abuse anyone, I didn’t see anything suspicious; he seemed okay to me!”
That’s how abusers operate, including narcissists, how dim is that Priscilla lady and her husband?
Abusers generally only abuse (their preferred prey, such as spouses) in private, with no eye witnesses, and they are on their best behavior around other people. Duh.
Do any Christians out there EVER study psychology, and I mean by actual professionals?
I wouldn’t attend JMac’s church, or take any advice from JMac and crew, or from his books and radio show, even if you paid me a billion dollars tax free.
What a horror show.
This is also one outcome of patriarchal / complementarian biblical views/interpretations.
This is what complementarians mean when they say, “We believe women are equal in value to men, just not in role!”
I’m not even fully done reading this article, and it keeps getting worse and worse as it goes on.
Who needs a loophole when $3M will buy ya’a church?
Accoutrements extra… via Amazon wish list.
Such a deal. Let’s play church. From cash to facility + furnishings = church. Don’t forget the marketing plan, social media… then when the predators & perverts show up to their hunting ground, bring in the damage control experts.
Doing/buying church.
Another bar was set in Acts 1: Jesus’ followers met in prayer and Scriptures and fellowship, then the Holy Spirit came upon them. Church.
Nothing to do with $3M or even 1 shekel. Later, in Acts 8, a guy offered $$$:
“Simon saw that the Spirit was given through the laying on of the apostles’ hands, so he offered the disciples money, saying, ‘Give this authority to me as well, so that everyone on whom I lay my hands may receive the Holy Spirit.’
“Peter said to him, ‘May your silver perish with you, because you thought you could acquire the gift of God with money! You have no part or share in this matter, for your heart is not right before God. Therefore, repent of this wickedness of yours, and pray to the Lord that, if possible, the intention of your heart will be forgiven you. For I see that you are in the gall of bitterness and in the bondage of unrighteousness.’
“Simon answered, ‘Pray to the Lord for me yourselves, so that nothing of what you have said may come upon me.'”
Daisy,
The fact that they “passed him on” (that is David, the later convicted sex offender) to teach kids in a public school is so disgusting, I am having trouble putting it into words…. the depth that these “clowns” will go to “protect” their “theology” makes me want to vomit…
And this is why we love your comments, Max!
Speaking of Ukraine, TGC is never one to pass on a fundraising opportunity: https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/provide-gospel-centered-resources-for-the-ukrainian-church/
I would be surprised to find that there are zero websites or people who are actually Ukrainian who are already providing “gospel centered resources” in Ukrainian and Russian, or ex-pats already established there, working with nationals and learning what they actually need right now. Why not search those people out, vet them, and encourage TGC followers to send resources directly there?
Daisy,
Would Johnny Mac want this pedo back in the family if his own young relatives were in the family? (grandkids, great-grandkids??) Or would JM recommend the pedo teach at a Jr HS if his relatives were students there?
Pretty incomprehensible…
So appreciate Dee’s hard work and the many good comments here! In many ways it is “virtual church” or “virtual Sunday School!” And Max, Ava, I can always count on your comments to be spot on. Daisy, thanks for your response. It was information much needed that I would not have seen today if not for you. (Someone I am close to escaped both her abuser and the pastor who gave similar “counsel” as the JMac church. Wounds still need healing many years later.)
TWW is truly a village.
MacArthur announced as featured speaker at June pre-SBCAnnualMeeting rally of Paige Patterson loyalists (the ‘Conservative Baptist Network’):
https://twitter.com/SharayahColter/status/1500947018323308553
“The Conservative Baptist Network is honored to have Dr. John MacArthur slated to join us as our special guest for an evening of fellowship and preaching ahead of the SBC Annual Meeting in Anaheim.”
One comment not allowed. This “sacred victimhood” garbage is truly upon us.
Jerome,
This needs to be a post although I get a pit in my stomach thinking about the comments that will arise from this subset.
Jerome,
“Dr.” John MacArthur, huh? Even Johnny Mac doesn’t claim that title, that I’m aware.
Wait, I stand corrected. He totally does call himself ‘Dr. John MacArthur.’ Or, at least, he allows his seminary to call him that.
Birds of a feather flock together.
It takes a village to protect God’s children from pulpit bad boys.
Wild Honey,
Congratulations! You were the only one who caught it!
If enough of God’s people got sick enough to throw-up over what’s happening in the American church, perhaps these pulpit clowns would go away.
marco,
His Wikipedia entry says he has a honorary DDiv – definitely not something that would support putting “Dr.” in front of your name. But then again, all those fundamentalists love their titles!
Dee, thanks for responding! There’s no way you could know about EGW’s issues.
I have appreciated all you do on your site and for believing and standing with abuse survivors. God bless you!
dee,
dee,
I bet the thought of posting about these clowns would “upset your stomach”.. Given how nasty they can be, but now we can understand why they are nasty… they have some VERY disgusting skeltons in their closet…
Do did Doug Phillips ESQUIRE of Vision Forum.
Was it an actual PhD who said the more someone puts “Doctor” in their title, the more likely the “Doctorate” is bogus? I remember that in connection with a comment thread that also included an anecdote of one of these fake-doctorates demanding his friends and family address him as “Doctor” instead of by name.
Headless Unicorn Guy,
I am one that has said that…. My world is full of PhD.,,…. Very, very few use the title….. students usually call us “Professor. xXX”, but that is about it…
And, you are correct, the more these clowns us the title in their name, or want to addressed with “Dr”, the more a figure it is “unearned”…
Agreed. And thanks for your affirmation. I appreciate all of the TWW commenters, too
Jeffrey Chalmers,
It’s actually an Irish foible to call a clergyman that has (reputedly) done any study, “Dr”. This then got exported to India. My impression was that English Presbyterians went by “Rev”.
Surely in universities “Dr” is more junior than Professor (when you are not calling them by their first names), in England at any rate; and a polytechnic department head would be a real “Dr”. Obviously in those cases it actually did relate to a regularly recognised hard work doctoral degree.
As for fliers for religious, political or cultural (or even some academic) events, it’s no longer normal to give them a title then though: and that’s the real ones I’m talking about.
At one time “working people” gave themselves genuine kudos for being addressed by a “Dr” (a real one) and now they like to see the “Dr” (the real one) as “one of them”.
In the case of the delegates to the Macarthur event referred to, is this a sop to their emotions for being such “superior” eternally subjected subalterns?
Gus,
I was talking with a friend recently about a group of people who *really* like to put titles before and letters after their names. My friend commented that he has letters and a title then he wondered if he should use them.
In our circles, people might have titles, but those are rarely mentioned.
Jesus was the original sacred victim.
“I plan to do lots of reading to see if this nonsense was dreamed up by some committee somewhere. Something smells here.”
+++++++++++++++++++
Sacred Victimhood…
i bet they were holed up in some Holiday Inn somewhere, hammering out a new doctrine, taking bids for some catchy name.
they all liked the cynical one.
A Statement will be coming next, with the intent to blackmail people into signing, and blackball them if they don’t.
There will be a big fancy authoritative book, a Journal of ‘scholarly’-looking ‘papers’, bible study guides with glossy workbooks,
a ‘Council’, or superpac, will be set up.
.
.
i think i’ll send Neil Shenvi 4 silkscreened t-shirts (cuz i can’t decide which one i like best):
#sacred-impunity
#sacred-arrested-development
@sacred-ignorance
#sacred-right-to-be-a-dolt
Wild Honey on Wed Mar 09, 2022 at 10:13:
++++++++++++++++++
“Provide gospel-centered resources for the Ukrainian church”–The Gospel Coalition
‘tcha… the presumption…
This bunch centers more on their “gospel” than Jesus. Gospel = Calvinism to the TGC folks. Beware of those who toss “gospel-centered” around flippantly (gospel-centered lives, gospel-centered coffee, gospel-centered everything) … there’s a theological boogeyman hiding behind the label. The Ukrainian people need food, clothing, shelter, and love right now, not TGC.
“The Ukrainian people need food, clothing, shelter, and love right now, not TGC.”
MAX, I agree with you here. I am wondering how long it will take the world to ‘get it’ that the real ‘gospel’ IS ‘food, clothing, shelter, and love’;
all that ‘God of wrath’ neo-Calvinism reeks of an inhumanity in the Deity which was proven false by the very Person of Our Lord when He was with us on this Earth. What strange gods the ‘wrathful’ turn to as ‘annointed’ these days . . . gods who favor men like Putin and his ilk . . . wrathful minions who ‘stir the pot’ and beat the war drums? I’d sooner worship the devil than pander after such mean-spirited souls as are said now to be ‘God’s Annointed Ones’. . .
If the Ukrainian people aren’t a wake-up call to ‘who Putin really is’, then what will it take to alert our own nation to the threats to our own rule of law and Constitutional freedoms? Their bravery in the face of that monster shames those who would pander after any autocrats. These brave people may die in their struggle but they have re-lit a fire in our nation that was almost extinguished on Jan 6th and remains threatened by our own autocratic power-seekers.
The people of Ukraine may need many things right now, but they are full-hearted and freedom-loving and their stand for freedom is an example that cannot, must not, be forgotten in our own land. We need to honor them and help them in so far as it is ‘possible’. Let the ‘God of Wrath’ folk take their sad version of ‘the gospel’ to them what no longer care for democracy.
Michael in UK,
Right , right, you’re bloody well right.
I’m not sure MacArthur insists on being called “Dr.” since it doesn’t appear on the GCC bio for him, but it does appear on on the TMS bio for him.
The question is whether it’s proper, or helpful, since those degrees are honorary, rather than earned the traditional way. They are recognition of contribution, not education.
Until “Gospel(TM)” becomes just another meaningless buzzword, the latest “marclar”.
https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=marclar
Because then the TGC hierarchy wouldn’t be able to skim off the top.
How do these guys lay their hands on so much money? Or is it just a whacking great mortgage?
And as far as TGC go, well I’m pretty sure they won’t consider the Orthodox Christians that are the vast majority in Ukraine to be real Christians, so they’ll need to work on converting people as a matter of urgency.
The tenets of reformed theology wouldn’t fit in the Orthodox Church of Ukraine. If the New Calvinists confront people of faith in Ukraine with ‘their’ gospel they would be met with faces like raccoons staring into headlights. The last thing Ukraine needs right now is for TGC to start prowling around.
If they (TGC) think they’re gonna’ upend over a thousand years of traditional religious culture, they’ve got another think coming.
I have yet to hear one big name fundagelical condemn Russia for their brutal invasion of Ukraine.
“I have yet to hear one big name fundagelical condemn Russia for their brutal invasion of Ukraine.”
and you likely will not because to criticize Putin is to criticize a previous President
who has served him in trying to get us out of NATO. Putin sees NATO as what is blocking him from ‘taking back’ what he considers his Russian ’empire’. Our previous President understood Putin’s wishes and made attempt, but thank God he failed in this, likely because of some very serious push-back from all sides who KNEW that Putin was really behind us abandoning NATO.
As long as NATO stands, Putin may be kept in check, at least away from our NATO allies. I’m hopeful for this for the sake of my daughter-in-law’s family in Latvia.
If we have to, we will arrange to bring them here if Latvia becomes a danger zone. We shall see.
As for those ‘pastors’? I think they have judged themselves openly and I could not say anything against them that is worse than what they have done to their own reputations as patriotic American people OR as ‘shepherds’ in service to the Kingdom of God. May God mercy on us all.
May as well be wearing red MRGA caps.
Which is another example of how low much of “American Christianity” has become.. they are so quick to “get political” when if fits there particular “sin”, but if there is any hint it will impact nagatively on “their side”.. silence..