The star cluster Pismis 24 lies in the core of the large emission nebula NGC 6357-NASA
Such grace is costly because it calls us to follow, and it is grace because it calls us to follow Jesus Christ. It is costly because it costs a man his life, and it is grace because it gives a man the only true life. It is costly because it condemns sin, and grace because it justifies the sinner. Dietrich Bonhoeffer
purposes of this post, I would I want you to envision a straight line. Place Tullian Tchividjian on the left side, just off the line. On the right side of the line, place the 9 Marxist Redeemer church. Place Wade Burleson on the line. Wade is one of the most loving pastors out there and he gets grace right. We all may differ a bit on how grace and obedience intermix but we should never be like the two following examples.
This post is intended to show how easy it is to fall off the grace spectrum. I define the grace spectrum as a line that thoughtful Christians move along. We all may disagree on where we stand on the line. I contend that some ministries or celebrities fall off the line and teach things that I don’t see in the Bible. I would contend that these groups teach things that are not in the Bible.
Tullian Tchividjian falls off the left end of the grace spectrum
First Things posted Tullian TCHIVIDJIAN’S UPSIDE DOWN CHRISTIANITY by Christopher Jackson. Jackson is a pastor in the Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod which is a conservative Lutheran synod. TT became the pastor of a church, The Sanctuary, which he started. he had to start his own unaffiliated church because he was defrocked by the PCA. The title of the post reflects TT’s theology which he defines as Upside Down Christianity. Here is what he says about his church from his website
The Sanctuary is a judgment-free zone where people can come as they are, not as they should be. A place to find love and laughter and hope and healing and acceptance and forgiveness and mercy and help. Sadly, churches tend to be the scariest places, rather than the safest places, for fallen people to fall down and for broken people to break down.
The Sanctuary strives to be different.
Except, TT and his church are not different in the least. TT is merely spouting theology gained from *Radical Lutheranism.* According to Jackson:
…twentieth-century Lutheran theologians Werner Elert and Gerhard Forde highly influence his writing and preaching. The Sanctuary defines its message as a Theology of the Cross, versus a Theology of Glory, a distinction that Forde mined from one of Luther’s early writings and then popularized in order to promote his program of “Radical Lutheranism.” This Radical Lutheranism informs Tchividjian’s combative stance against most churches.
Jackson says that TT’s combative stance against most churches is indicative that TT is being quite judgemental. Jackson continues:
Forde’s theology presents an even greater challenge to Christian unity: By reducing the task of theology to merely reminding people about grace, it leaves no room for other theological endeavors such as the pursuit of good works (Ephesians 2:10) and the mutual adoration of God (Ephesians 1:12), endeavors in which Christians often find unity and companionship even across confessional lines.
Tchividjian views other Christians as the enemy.
…in Tchividjian’s writing and preaching, as is often the case with those influenced by Radical Lutheranism, other Christians become the enemy.
Even worse, TT believes it is the immoral people who truly get God.
As Tchividjian said in a recent sermon, “It’s always the immoral person who gets the Gospel before the moral person.”
Most of us would agree that repentance involves recognizing one’s sin and attempting to bring restitution for those we have harmed. It is my opinion that TT has not truly repented. The Christian Post wrote: Back in the pulpit after scandal, Tullian Tchividjian insists sex with former congregants was not abuse. As we know, TT had multiple extramarital relationships with congregants. It is clear to most people that TT used his position of power and the pulpit to engage in several flings. However, he refuses to acknowledge this which is worrisome to sex abuse advocates. He is refusing to acknowledge what happened. He is unrepentant. He should never be in a pulpit again but I guess that’s the only way he knows how to earn money.
(he) rejected claims that he used his role as a pastor to inveigle the women into sexual relationships.
“I don’t care what role a person has, a consensual relationship between two adults is not abuse. And some of these people will try to make the case that, ‘Well, because you’re in a position of authority, it is abuse,’” Tchividjian said. “And I’ll go, ‘OK I can see how that has been and can be used by people in those positions.’ … (But) that just was not true for me. I was not abusing my authoritative role to try and find women.”
Rachel Steele, one of his victims, claims that she was coerced into a relationship with the randy pastor.
…she didn’t feel like their relationship was consensual even though she wanted to have sex with him.”
…She argues that she was groomed and he did abuse his position as her pastor.
Tchividjian …had been offering her and her now ex-husband marriage advice she considered counseling.He was my spiritual leader. You know, he was my go-to. He was my teacher. … He definitely had a place of authority in my life,” Steele told the publication. “You trust a man like that a lot more.
It appears to me that TT is using old, worn-out, and rejected theological musings of *radical Lutheranism* to excuse himself from facing what he did by dishonoring his calling. He divorced his wife and married one of his hookups who has had two other marriages and a child born outside of marriage. It is interesting that he chose another seemingly vulnerable woman to marry. Sadly, I predict that TT is headed for another crash and burn.
TT is playing with the definition of grace. There is a reason that the theologians he is following are not accepted in the conservative Lutheran synods. It is because TT preaches what Dietrich Bonhoeffer called *cheap grace.* This is a long quote but worth the read. It describes TT to a tee. TT is off the grace spectrum.
Cheap grace means grace sold on the market like cheapjacks’ wares. The sacraments, the forgiveness of sin, and the consolations of religion are thrown away at cut prices. Grace is represented as the Church’s inexhaustible treasury, from which she showers blessings with generous hands, without asking questions or fixing limits. Grace without price; grace without cost! The essence of grace, we suppose, is that the account has been paid in advance; and, because it has been paid, everything can be had for nothing. Since the cost was infinite, the possibilities of using and spending it are infinite. What would grace be if it were not cheap?…
Cheap grace is the preaching of forgiveness without requiring repentance, baptism without church discipline, Communion without confession, absolution without personal confession. Cheap grace is grace without discipleship, grace without the cross, grace without Jesus Christ, living and incarnate.
Costly grace is the treasure hidden in the field; for the sake of it a man will go and sell all that he has. It is the pearl of great price to buy which the merchant will sell all his goods. It is the kingly rule of Christ, for whose sake a man will pluck out the eye which causes him to stumble; it is the call of Jesus Christ at which the disciple leaves his nets and follows him.
Costly grace is the gospel which must be sought again and again, the gift which must be asked for, the door at which a man must knock.
Such grace is costly because it calls us to follow, and it is grace because it calls us to follow Jesus Christ. It is costly because it costs a man his life, and it is grace because it gives a man the only true life. It is costly because it condemns sin, and grace because it justifies the sinner. Above all, it is costly because it cost God the life of his Son: “ye were bought at a price,” and what has cost God much cannot be cheap for us. Above all, it is grace because God did not reckon his Son too dear a price to pay for our life, but delivered him up for us. Costly grace is the Incarnation of God.”
Redeemer Church, Fort Worth, falls off the right side of the grace spectrum.
I have found that churches associated with 9 Marks, TGC, T4G, SBTS, SEBTS, etc. appear to believe that we can control our sin if we try really hard and rigidly discipline members. Todd Wilhelm wrote a post in which he demonstrated the foolish nature of this Redeemer Church and their view on sinful behavior. Immature Elders Continue to Abuse Excommunication.
This church reminds me of CJ Mahaney and Sovereign Grace which came up with all sorts of sins to punish, including *sinfully craving answers.” This church reminds me of my former pastor who often spoke of church leadership who *cooked the books* to punish sins of which they believed they were not guilty. In this ridiculous church, here are a few things the leadership was upset about.
- Sinfully inflammatory language
- Unwarranted inference
- Saying the pastors were being evasive
- (the best of all) Publicly inferring everything I have inferred from my evaluation that they were being invasive.
The pastors said that his careless, aggressive words revealed a harsh and judgemental spirit. They even claimed that he was in sin in the past even though they had never conveyed he was in sin. They couldn’t even define what those past sins were.
Can Dee translate what these thin-skinned pastors were really saying? “You hurt our feelings.” Frankly, these guys can make up sins quicker than CJ Mahaney. The people in this church are in trouble. You see, the leaders are beginning to discipline small sins since small sins become big sins. They have fallen off the grace spectrum on the right side.
Folks, take this as a warning. Everyone commits small sins every day. If these leaders are planning to discipline folks for all of these small sins, these pastors will be working 24/7. I have a better idea. I suggest that the pastors and elders go first. Let the congregation discipline their *small sins.* I bet that would be quite revealing and rather fascinating.
Time to pack up the babies and head for the hills.
1st
“As Tchividjian said in a recent sermon, “It’s always the immoral person who gets the Gospel before the moral person.””
Then why did it take him so long to get it?!! (or did he?)
“TT is playing with the definition of grace.”
Tullian has ventured into antinomianism … believing that he has been released by ‘grace’ from the obligation of obeying moral law. He has crafted a new ministry for those who are still dragging around the old man and the sin nature, wallowing in the mud with each other with a pastor who is no better than they are. Grace doesn’t cover such darkness.
It seems appropriate to start letting congregations discipline ginormous sins of pastors and elders.
Plenty of time for the small sins after some huge ones by leadership are exposed and dealt with appropriately.
Numero cinco?
Congregations can stop taking their money from their pockets and putting it into the hands of unqualified, illegitimate church beggars or manipulative “leaders”. Church members can do this on their own. They don’t need anyone’s permission to ghost the grifters.
I know we are not to let first impressions of someone cloud our judgement but the preacher above rubs me the wrong way. His jiterry hand motions and his gaunt face. It reminds me of someone who was picked on as a youngster. Where is he getting his theology. I do not see that he was getting this direct from Scripture. He is in a position of authority now and it is payback time.
I am sorry, I may be way off base-but my impressions are not positive. He speaks as if he has not been in meaningful, loving relationships. When you make a mountain out of a molehill too many times, you will damage your relationship.
I have a very serious and destructive personal story of how Redeemer FW spiritually abused our family. It still is palpable 10 years later. The Elder who planted the church is still the elder… we could have sued him for slander…. this is very indicative of their reformed teaching… this is the church Dr Lee and Anthony Moore from Cedarville went to . As well as Anthony Moore’s victim who will now be head Pastor at TVC FW…. before it rolls off to an independent church…. very indicative of the legalism that I know understand.. Very patriarchal very homeschool friendly… several families had come out of the ATI Gothard background. The Elder went to Birchman Baptist, where Paige Patterson was a member,before he was an elder at PCA church… this is all significant …. there is a lot to this story… the current Pastor BRETT was a student at SWBTS I believe when he started going to REDEEMER before he was married… very much under Dale Stoneciphers thumb… he controlled a lot there… the original Pastor is now deceased….. he was an elder at TVC and me tired Anthony Moore when AM got the preaching job. They were incompetent to deal with CSA !!! Spanking was the primary means of correction… for children/babies…. it’s about SUBMISSION AND OBEDIENCE !
“TRY HARDER! HARDER!!! HARDER!!!!!”
From personal experience, that way lies Madness and Death.
Even without a tacked-on “OR ELSE!!!!!!!”
Yeah, he seemed hyper and jittery. Like he’s ADHD or something.
And like Womb Tomb Swanson, he’s now Alpha Male by Divine Right? And it’s Payback Time?
Problem is, that sort of Christian elevates EVERYTHING to Cosmic-level Importance.
No matter how trivial.
“GOD or SATAN – WHOSE SIDE ARE YOU ON?????”
“TOUCH NOT MINE ANOINTED!!!!!”
(After all, whatever would God do without Christian Leaders to fight for Him? God is So Lucky to have them…)
Watson dominates the mass media to say that once you acknowledge any of your sins privately to God you are permanently and publicly in sin. There is a disembodied but apparently superior class of beings (whom I’ve known and who are enjoying increasing success) who claim to be hurt more than we are, by continually twisting the knife. “I say I might be wrong for window dressing which means I’m right and my questions are by definition tough on you and what’s tough means you gotta have joy i.e don’t talk back and don’t assert any truth or tell me to mind my business.” He sounds like Jim Spiegel.
Tullian doesn’t think anyone is even human. His type whom I met is now a beach evangelist. He sounds like Jim Spiegel. In fact the two are identical.
I propose a team ministry: Tullian can flatter Watson, which will subtly flummox him, and Watson can taunt Tullian which will send him bananas. I’ve known a team like this continue for decades and it is still ongoing, no-one but me and a couple of others ever noticing. They will confirm each others’ opinions which is the opposite of what we do.
(Parenthesis: it’s obvious from Dee’s context who “the two” are.)
This will never succeed because some “twelve” or other will contrive to send in battalions from anywhere to cause rings to be run round everybody. Additionally, an unwary trainee has been known to travel 100 miles to go doorstepping at 10 p.m.
It would be interesting to know to what extent TT’s theology envisions sinners’ active (intentional, effort-ful — think of Paul’s analogy of an athlete straining toward a goal) pursuit of growth toward the likeness of Christ as opposed to mere passive reception of some sort of sanctifying influence.
Perhaps one could helpfully adjust TT slightly to suggest that while Grace accepts us as we are, it is not content for us to remain as we are.
—–
From the slight mentions in the OP, I think that TT is mis-characterizing Luther’s “Theology of the Cross”; it is a theology of **our** suffering as a manifestation of “the Cross” in our own lives. Luther would have reckoned that we ought not to be surprised if, following Christ, we suffer in spite of having done no wrong.
TT seems to object to suffering for doing wrong. His thinking seems to me much closer to a “theology of glory” than to Luther’s “theology of the Cross.” Read von Loewenich’s “Luther’s Theology of the Cross”, if you can find it. It’s challenging.
The thought occurs that by drawing attention to relatively small behavioral imperfections in others, one can distract attention from profound disorders in one’s own heart worship and the behavioral consequences of that.
TT seems to employ a similar strategy of distraction — you are sinning against God by not showing me grace. Similar methods seems to have been employed in SG churches, where the offense of not forgiving grievous abuse — on the abuser’s say-so that he was repentant — was elevated above the sin of the original abuse itself.
I have been impressed by the gravity with which Paul regarded his past life — he reckoned that he had persecuted Jesus by persecuting Jesus’ followers.
It would be refreshing to hear from TT that “I am one of the chief of sinners, because I led astray, for the sake of my own enjoyment, some of Jesus’ followers.” The gravity of the harm he caused to these people and to their families really ought to be affirmed.
—
This thought will not sit well with those who affirm the idea that one can know with absolute certainty that one is saved, but one finds in Paul here and there a kind of incredulity that he has been entrusted with the privilege of bearing the testimony of Christ before the pagan nations and, corresponding to that, something that looks to me like lingering questions about whether he is actually “in”. For example, he keeps his body under subjection (whatever that means) in order that, after he has preached to others, he himself is not disqualified (turning back, for a moment, to the present case — perhaps it could be regarded to be a form of “bodily subjection” to … keep one’s zipper up). It seems to me that Paul doesn’t affirm confidence that he will receive the “well done!” until the end, when he is in prison awaiting execution and he can see that he has persevered to the end.
TT has, IMO, a lot of persevering in good works to do before his claim to have been “washed in the blood” can have much credibility in the view of the wider world.
Headless Unicorn Guy,
I agree, and go a step further. If one focuses on attempting to exhibit love to mankind, or practice the golden rule, ones focus shifts from “what you don’t do”, “to what you do”…. of course, focusing on “doing good” can also become an obsession..
Love that article by Jackson in First Things. Love Bonhoeffer, too. Great post.
“you gave up your right to be offended when people suggest that you’ve got problems” (Redeemer Pastor Ben Watson)
Then Pastor Ben should not be offended with this TWW post! Problems? Pastor Ben is packing some.
For the life of me, I don’t understand why otherwise intelligent folks would sit under such teaching, distortions of Scripture and the Gospel message.
“Time to pack up the babies and head for the hills.” (Dee)
Yep, time to put your behind in your past, Redeemer members. Park your van at the church door and rescue as many as you can pack! Whew!
Now THAT takes Sin-Sniffing to a whole new level.
Next step is “GOD REVEALED UNTO ME IN A VISION” Spectral Evidence.
Didn’t some Rabbi from Nazareth say something about motes (dust specks) in the other guy’s eye and (heavy timber) beams in your own?
“Twelve” as in “Dodeka”?
I’m guessing that TT is going to have real difficulty preaching Eph 5:3 with persuasive conviction. What a moralizer that apostle Paul was!
As noted at the end of that passage, it’s meant only for “God’s holy people.” Holiness is not on the agenda for antinomians.
““I don’t care what role a person has, a consensual relationship between two adults is not abuse. And some of these people will try to make the case that, ‘Well, because you’re in a position of authority, it is abuse,’” Tchividjian said. “And I’ll go, ‘OK I can see how that has been and can be used by people in those positions.’ … (But) that just was not true for me. I was not abusing my authoritative role to try and find women.””
The first declarative statement doesn’t appear to correspond with the rest; as with other forms of authoritarian abuse can happen without existing statutory definitions being technically broken. (There have been examples shown here — e.g. patient / mental health professional — of when the statutory definitions cover it.)
The last statement is interesting as far as wording. Using the shepherd / sheepfold analogy, does a grievous wolf really need to “try and find women” when he’s already been assigned charge of the pen and authority over the sheep? And what says the sheep?
https://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/20190817/exclusive-after-sex-scandal-billy-grahams-grandson-is-starting-church-in-palm-beach-gardens
“Steele said she wanted to have sex with him, but added that there was an element of surrendering “to what he wanted.” She doesn’t consider it consensual, because she said Tchividjian groomed her and abused his position of power over her.
“Months earlier, Tchividjian baptized her children, Steele said. And that spring, Tchividjian was offering her and her then-husband marriage advice. She considered it counseling, while Tchividjian said he had no such role in her life.
“”He was my spiritual leader. You know, he was my go-to. He was my teacher. … He definitely had a place of authority in my life,“ Steele said. ”You trust a man like that a lot more.“”
Sounds like both Steele and her husband looked at TT as a shepherd (especially as TT baptized their children). Also, those couples in his current church (sic) would figure to call him not an acquaintance or a pal but a “pastor” — with all its presumed trappings — per his representation on the church website (and be encouraged to donate to him and the church in that capacity, given the website). Going by TT’s articulated position, isn’t it logical that those couples would treat what their “pastor” says about an important spiritual matter as counseling, even “Biblical” counseling?
I think that’s exactly what’s going on…
Tullian seems to espouse a theology where he isn’t constrained by the negative consequences of his actions even on earth. He only wants positive things to happen to him. Tough nuggets, there are consequences for everything we do, both positive consequences and negative consequences. Not wanting negative consequences is how children think. Unless Tullian wants to go live by himself in a hut and live as little impact as possible, there will be consequences that affect other people. Until he does that, I’m not buying his brand of grace.
This reminds me of The Secret type “If you think it, you can have it” secular philosophy. I know some people that are very into that and they are all terrible people! They think if they wish hard enough that they will get everything they want and often, everything they want means someone else is paying the price. These people also tend to blame others when things don’t go their way, even when they are clearly in situations of their own making.
What a great – and necessary (sigh) – article. Thank you so much, Dee. (one thing: Jackson is actually an LCMS Pastor, I believe (vs. WELS), even though his churches are in Wisconsin – see his bio on Twitter)
This is what I think Luther would have regarded to be in the realm of “theologies of Glory”; the idea that the Cross relieves us of all suffering in this Age.
That covers more territory than he intended: adultery, other sex outside of marriage, non-heterosexual relationships, gold-digging, sex for money, sex involving people who have taken a vow of chastity. I could go on, but the B movie plots in my head are getting weirder.
I actually think an affair can be considered abusive to the other spouses when you are married. So I don’t even buy this argument on the level he is arguing. But as a pastor, I don’t care what he says, he was in a position of authority over her, especially since he used to preach New Calvinist theology. He was a member of TGC. I’m betting he believed (or still believes) that women are beneath him as a man. Based on what TGC teaches, he had absolute authority as a pastor. It’s abuse, end of story.
Yeah, I agree, except that I don’t think TT has much concern for theology, only what it brings him. I think he uses God for prosperity and a platform. He’s a smart enough guy to use theology to get what he wants, but I think he’s a snake oil salesman through and through.
The phrase that comes to mind is “duty of care”. Anyone with any kind of influence on or responsibility for others’ wellbeing, and who takes that influence or responsibility seriously, ought to recoil at the idea of using those people for one’s own ends.
One of the things that leads me to suspect that, as the OT puts it, “there is no fear of God before [his] eyes” is that TT does not seem to show regret at the damage to the reputation of the churches or of God that his conduct may have caused. Rather, there seems to be a posture that “my sin enhances the glory of God by magnifying His grace”. It’s almost as if we should cheer for “what happened” because of the God-glorifying consequences.
This is not far from “let us sin that grace may further abound.” That might be taking “seeker-friendly” forms of church too far.
I suppose we should be thankful that he has not yet deployed the Romans 9:19 defense.
Headless Unicorn Guy,
You got it right!
This made me think of the greater context that follows this section and its applicability to the current matter brought up in the article regarding grace and liberty. One perspective is that what is spoken of as far as being disqualified (and the Greek doesn’t appear to support the NIV addition of “for the prize” to end the verse) carries over to what follows in chapter 10 and potentially to the first verse of chapter 11.
What is spoken in other letters as what’s needed as it pertains to a believer’s mindset appears to be described by Paul first as it applies to himself and then as it applies to the readers of the letter. From that perspective, Paul had talked about his office and his preaching goals (”to the Jews I became like a Jew, so that I might win the Jews”, etc.), with mindset not to have that vocation derailed by his actions. Next follows the description of those careless and disobedient who fell by the wayside, used as a cautionary tale to those considered God’s people at the time to not persist in sinful and worldly ways.
All of this leads to an appropriate answer in 1 Cor. 10:23 to those presuming that having received grace and salvation obviated any imperative to walk in a certain way: “”All things are lawful,” but not all things are profitable; “All things are lawful,” but not all edify.” Rather than allowing a mindset to flourish in line with the perspective challenged in Romans 6 of continuing to sin so that grace may abound, Paul calls believers to a mindset appropriate to their goals and calling, per 1 Cor 10:32: “Therefore whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do all things to the glory of God.”
Paul then appears to tie it back to his purposeful walk as well as encouraging them to imitate himself as he imitated Christ, elsewhere articulated as a call to imitate God (cf. Eph. 5:1) — lest the readers / hearers think he was making it about him personally (an issue addressed in the first three chapters of 1st Corinthians).
All of this goes to the issues raised in the article, with someone having acted not above reproach as a pastor and thus subject to disqualification from that office going forward per 1 Timothy 3 and Titus 1. That includes the apparent emphasis on grace and forgiveness without appropriate regard to one’s walk in reality and the evident modeling that as someone reclaiming for themselves the title of pastor (and the resumption in many cases of compensation — often significant and not necessarily subject to sufficient outside scrutiny). Being forgiven and repentant does not remove every temporal consequence of one’s past transgressions, especially as far as positions of responsibility pertaining the body of Christ.
Spiritual abuse survivor,
I am so sorry that you were abused at this church. Just listening to his audio led me to understand that there would be abuse in that church. Your story is impoortant. Thank you for commenting.
You brillantly summarized this post.
I don’t hink he is up to the task. He thinkstoo highly of himself. But he will deny it.
Great comment.
When I was in college, i went on a cruise with my dad who is not a believer. For my *light* reading, I brought along The Cost of Discipleship. My dad kept asking me why I seemed so far away and why I had tears in my eyes. I’m sure you get why!
Because these folks want cheap grace. He has never attempted to bring restitution for the pain he has caused.
JDV,
Great comment.
This kind of theology is always one-way, too. I’m pretty sure, if the situation was reversed, that he’d be incensed and want justice. If his neighbor stole his car, he’d be at the police station making a report, angry that anybody could do that to him.
People like him that want fame, fortune, and complete absolution with no consequences for themselves would never give others the same if they were infringed on.
Samuel Conner,
Luther on Romans 3 21 onwards- “If we examine ourselves carefully, therefore, we shall always find in ourselves at least vestiges of the flesh by which we are afflicted with self-interest, obstinate over against the good, and prone to do evil. For if there were not this kind of remnant of sin in us and if we were seeking only God, surely this mortal man would quickly be dissolved, and our soul would fly to God. But the fact that the soul does not take to flight is a sure sign that it still clings to the filth of the flesh until it may be freed by the grace of God, and this is to be awaited in death.“ (Works, vol.25 p244)
One other thing about Paul’s confidence: it’s interesting to consider the matter of the thorn of the flesh given to him so that he not be conceited after talking about the man caught up into Paradise (cf. 2 Cor. 12 1-10) in light of the first letter to the Corinthians. It appears again to relate to a proper mindset, and focus, especially after speaking of heavenly visions and revelations.
This comes after having expressed a baseline preference to be with the Lord rather than away from Him (cf. 2 Cor. 5:8-10), also expressed in Phil. 1:23. In the latter and subsequent verse, it’s worth observing that he doesn’t appear to express concern about his salvation status and suitability to be with Jesus should he be called that instant (or to lose that chance should he linger). Rather, Paul concludes that his lingering in his labors would be a help to the body of Christ:
Phil. 1:21-24 — “For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain. But if I am to live in flesh, this is the fruit of labor for me. And what shall I choose? I do not know. But I am pressed between the two, having the desire to depart and to be with Christ, indeed very much better, but to remain in the flesh is more necessary for your sake.”
In both Philippians 1 and 2 Corinthians 5, what follows Paul’s personal preference is an expressed desire to have a fruitful walk while Paul remains on earth, with of course a mindset that corresponds with that and focuses on the task at hand. That’s where the concern appears voiced strongly, using the judgment seat of Christ and the revelations before it as further incentives to be ambitious to be well-pleasing to the Lord (cf. 2 Cor. 5:10).
I once jokingly asked Dr. Roger Nicole:
“Does God predestine some to be Arminians?”
With a smile he promptly replied:
“Oh, No. God is no the author of sin.”
“Exquisite Sensitivity to any real or imagined slight to Themselves, coupled with Absolute Indifference as to how they might slight others.”
My writing partner once described The Secret as “a toddler’s idea of Magical Thinking”.
Can’t get this Theme Song for Tee Tee out of my head after reading that:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COhMUiFlOFA
I think it was more than just “spiritual leader”.
I think Tee Tee was grooming for the “My LORD and My God” position.
Tullian would have no pulpit without them.
“The prophets prophesy falsely, and the priests rule by their own authority, and the people love it so much. But what will they do when the end comes?” (Jeremiah 5:31)
This kind of conception of “free” grace is never free. TT’s conception of fame is the same. He has to take from others to have the grace and freedom he wants. He injured his first family with his affairs. If you don’t want someone anymore, then just leave, but we know he couldn’t because his earlier brand of church would excommunicate him. He took from innocent people for his “freedom”. There were two other non-consenting adults in just his affair with his current wife. Where’s their free grace?
Headless Unicorn Guy,
We had “twelve” (very seldom mentioned) behind some of the shenanigans I was mixed up in! (I believe I met one of the “72” once)
Response to TT: Romans 3:31
Great work Dee. This is one of your Top 10.
I Thess. 5:19, “Quench not the Spirit.” quench, meaning to stifle, suppress, or extinguish.
The apparent narrative shaping in this given all that has come out is truly remarkable:
https://www.thesanctuaryfl.org/our-pastor
Didn’t they launch their new church at a luxury hotel with a fancy Sunday buffet? TT has never been down and out. He juxtaposes personal messes with wealth and fame, like generations of rock musicians.
Finances related to his enterprise launches came up in Dee’s report at an interesting point in the timeline:
http://thewartburgwatch.com/2016/11/23/tullian-tchividjian-where-is-the-shame-that-needed-grace-lisa-tells-her-story-to-nate-sparks-and-lauren-larkin/
“In one conversation, he would seem to be doing well financially, then he would send out a group text—including Lisa—asking people for money. He even once sent out a group text asking people for ideas on how to raise money as he considered relaunching the Liberate conference from his newly acquired position at Willow Creek Church, of the PCA. Participants in the group text offered a myriad of ideas of how Tullian could raise money. One person offered to help him flip-houses to make some cash, and other chimed in that they would help. When Lisa and some others offered to assist, too, with an emphasis on comradery and community, Tullian replied in clear terms: “I’m in it for the money, and the money alone.”
“It was after this that Tullian asked Lisa privately to be his official fundraiser for Liberate. He needed 30k to launch the new website and instructed Lisa to “get him 12k by next week”. When Lisa insisted that she didn’t have any idea how to do that, he told her that “6k would work”. When she pushed back again, insisting that she didn’t know anyone with that kind of cashflow he told her to “ask 12 people for $500 each, or rob a bank. I don’t care how you come up with the money, just do it.” Lisa suggested to Tullian that there were a couple of people skilled in building websites that she knew personally who could help him and avoid the upfront cost. He responded with, “we want only the best” and then cut off the conversation.”
Friend,
There’s no bizz like the Jesus bizz.
Headless Unicorn Guy,
And, these systems are setting up these kind of leaders to not be accountable…
As I was further educated in the “secular humanist world”, I realized that modern Physiology had much to say about different “personality types”… we clearly see that in engineering education… for example, “detail oriented” vs “big picture” people. I also learned that there is nothing intrinsically wrong with either personality type… that was a big revelation to me.
I also came to realize that many fundamentalist leaders are hyper detail type people.. and fundamentalism lets them indulge their personality…. then of course, you can also get obsessive/compulsive type people as leaders also… and if unchecked… look out..
But then again, I am a “compromised Christian”..
The danger of theology is that there few (if any) verifiable propositions – which in a sideways fashion is the dogma of ‘inerrancy’ is an acknowledgment of. Theological discussions can wind up becoming a distortion field that superficially resembles the theory of relativity where every point of view is correct, though in physics there is substantial proof (and discarded failed theories). At play in the illustrative references above, we have ‘sin’ abstracted and thrown around like the destructive anathemas of the first millennium church. Of course these extreme examples, which also happen in the vast middle, the miscreant doesn’t admit their own sin – because you teach others to believe what you don’t believe yourself, ie, ‘inerrancy,’ a code word for self-proclaimed infallibility. You and I may have authentic views of that subject, but *they* don’t. Read your Bible, read it again…and again. Adjust based on what the Bible is telling you, not what *they* say the Bible is telling you.
Where does Doug Wilson place on the spectrum of grace? Sometimes abusive sometimes not.
https://www.breitbart.com/faith/2020/09/24/idaho-police-arrest-3-at-outdoor-church-worship-event-in-defiance-of-mask-mandate/
In the Jesuz Racket, there’s a lot more than one Sucker born every minute.
None but the best for GAWD’s Anointed.
Money is No Object.
Gotta Keep Up with The Furticks, if not Ken Copeland.
“ARE THEY GOD’S CHOSEN? ARE THEY GOD’S CHOSEN?”
— Gordon Dickson, “Soldier, Ask Not” (original Hugo-winning novella 1964, expanded novel 1967)
“There’s a sucker born every minute.”
— P.T.Barnum
(Except when it comes to Christians, where there’s a sucker born every second.)
Good advice.
I’ve done that for years now, and I get 88mm flak from both sides of the great liberal vs. conservative divide.
Muff Potter,
Yup… our culture has become “binary” in so many ways…
Doug Wilson co-authored Southern Slavery: As It Was. TWW regulars know a lot more about him, but that monograph says as much as anyone needs to learn about his concept of grace.
“God is opposed to the arrogant, but gives grace to the humble” (James 4:6)
This guy is an apostate. His theology leaves out sanctification altogether. My question is those who profess to be Christians, are they realizing they are stifling God the Holy Spirit, or are they even saved. In a hopeful note, maybe some of the congregants will wake up in time, especially the women. If TT’s congregants act like him, The Sanctuary is nothing more an ancient Roman bath.
Even though I hold to the parameters of The Apostle’s Creed as non-negotiable axioms up front, I’ve been told by some that I’m still a liberal apostate because I may or may not hold to a whole plethora of stuff beyond the Creed.
I’ve been assured also (by some), that because I reject the doctrine of PSA (penal substitutionary atonement), I am not ‘saved’; I cannot call myself a Christian, and the only thing I have to look forward to when the life-force leaves my body, is the lake of fire along with the beast and the false prophet.
Friend,
Yes, I’ve known about Wilson for about 25 to 30 yrs now. Read much of his stuff, and most of TWW’s take on him.
He does have a rather destructive theology. I was friends a long time ago with someone not too far from him. This person usually has contact with a lot of those who got hurt and disillusioned from the leadership there. A lot of emotional and spiritual fallout for sure.
Oddly enough, I do have a mild respect for him taking a stand against his abusers in the recent days. Lord willing, we’ll see more churches doing the same as the fraud is exposed. Germany already has 500 to 1000 doctors using there term “hoax” to describe the plandemic.
You, me, the vast majority of Christians since the reformation, and pretty much all Christians before Calvin (pbuh).
It may be that advocates of the traditional understanding of PSA in future will have worse problems than outright denial of the doctrine. It may be historicized in a way that vitiates the traditional view. One sees, I think, hints of this in NT Wright’s influential work and it’s right out in the open with Andrew Perriman, with whom I find myself agreeing. Jesus died the death of a Jewish rebel against Rome, even though he was not personally guilty — he died for Israel’s sins. It was penal and it was substitutionary. And it seems to me that it also was an efficacious atonement, tamping down Jewish enthusiasm for rebellion for a generation or so, delaying the outpouring of wrath that was coming against Israel, and thereby saving many lives.
While I don’t disagree with that principle I’m glad the Lord ultimately decides who is humble and who is proud – because (in one sense) we all are on the continuum in flux somewhere between the two opposing ideas.
Good point on NT Wright. He says he affirms PSA, but his view of PSA is completely different from the standard view, which he firmly rejects.
That’s not good. I went to a church where a bunch of Gothard homeschool families started joining. I didn’t know anything about the group beforehand, what I noticed was that those families had to have their own separate Sunday School class, never socialized with too many folks outside their group, and so forth. To make matters worse, this was around the time that the church was starting its own Christian school (Gothard teaches that if you don’t homeschool, you’re in open sin).
Having left a church that split twice while I was there (the first time I was real young, the second time the church got a pastor from another congregation and all he did was try to run it into the ground so his former congregation could get a free building for its Hispanic mission). Not wanting to go through another split, I bailed out.
If Redeemer Church is run by Gothard supporters, that’s a great reason to leave.
I resemble that remark 🙂
Unfortunately, some folks stop flowing with the continuum and lock up on the arrogant extreme of the spectrum … there’s been an outbreak of that in New Calvinism.
I knew people who bragged that God made them with this sin so He could humiliate them by putting them in authority. They twist EVERYTHING without exception.
Shouldn’t that be (phhn)(Praise His Holy Name) instead of (pbuh)?
Or perhaps something more biblical, such as (tvoaganoam)- “The voice of a god and not of a man!”
dee,
I also wouldn’t underestimate the power of personal charisma. Tullian gets an audience because he is a charismatic guy. A less personally charismatic guy who committed similar sins would not be able to move on to “success” as he has. The sad thing is that people will overlook lots of things in a charismatic personality.
Ken F (aka Tweed),
Looks like more people than just Christians are now raising an eyebrow about TGC’s stance.
https://www.naturalnews.com/2020-09-25-gospel-coalition-support-adult-men-raping-little-boys.html#
How can this be?
Yes, rape is an extreme version of one ANIMAL forcing Dominance on another.
Yes, the Anointed have sexual rights over all their inferiors by Divine Right (which makes ESS go SERIOUSLY GrimDark), but wouldn’t that be HOMOSEXUAL(TM)?
Not necessarily. A couple years ago there was a study of same-sex pedophilia that showed that same-sex pedos self-identify as Straight. (Same-sex EHEBEHILES – attracted to POST-pubsecent “jail bait” – self-identify as Gay.) And that testing arousal to stimuli bears this out. (Don’t know how they measured “arousal” in a lab environment, not sure I want to know.)
The key was that pre-pubescent boys do NOT show Masculine sexual characteristics, but Feminine – smooth skin, ultra-fine body hair, NO facial hair, high-pitched voice, and undeveloped/inconspicuous genitalia (compared to a post-puberty male). And those were major attractants. So seen through “pedo glasses” they’re Not Really Male. So that makes it NOT Homosexual. (And when your subculture’s attitude to “Biblical Womanhood” is “the Man Penetrates, Colonizes, Conquers, Plants; the Woman lies back and Accepts”, well…)
And ALWAYS to their Personal Benefit and/or Convenience.
You, too, could be a successful leader of a personality cult if you have (1) a touch of charisma, (2) a gift of gab, and (3) a bag of gimmicks. It is demonic power that uses personal charisma to lead folks astray in church. Tullian knows not what spirit motivates his “ministry.”
Hmm, a very wicked person could say that’s a Hebrew word, pronounced “tvo aga no AM,” meaning “a prophet not responsible for outcomes.”
Surely no one would be so wicked. 😉
I’ve been having fun imagining all the sins God created in me for my humiliation. So far I think He is responsible for my liking melted cheese and reruns of “Bonanza.” Go ahead, laugh at my expense.
In D&D Terms, constant Charm Person as unlimited Spell-like Special Ability.
Bit too long.
Even Feddera Agencies and Microsoft Documentation don’t get much beyond four-letter acronyms.
That’s why I end up staying on one or another Special High Intensity Training list.
Please tell us it is not Velveeta – that would cause us to not laugh with you. There are some pretty amazing melted cheeses out there.
Friend,
Eternal Subjection of the Answer Craver – well I dropped out of “something” after 28 years and some others are still hanging on after 35 . . . To begin with we had fun: a respectable lady’s tame version of belly dancing (nothing like what goes on on racing car proprietors’ yachts) and courgette flower fritters; later the goons piled it on heavy.
Then there were the people that thought designer outlet barbecues are the answer to all needs. Then there were the Torontulators. The Bethelators. My teleology was simply that I should see what God sees. Because He knows I am UP to it not DOWN to it.
Relax, don’t get wrapped around the axel. There is no 100% agreement on this site.