Here with go with the analogies to Soviet Union again! Only in a totalitarian institution/ organization/ state can “proclamation” such as this be made!

This student’s parents should have obtained inpatient psychiatric treatment for her instead of sending her to college. The student was repeatedly suicidal, in I’ll health due to eating disorders,suffering from PTSD, and claims she was sexually assaulted at a local hospital. She affirms a history of mental illness. She should have been medicated and hospitalised, not matriculated at any university.

Perhaps the administration senses a need to create victims before it can care for them.

Given the multiple reports of prolonged waits for counseling, it would appear that the CU counseling department is seriously understaffed.

Is there a shortage of qualified candidates for open posts, or is there a cap on the head count of people that the university is willing to hire for this “caring well” function?

“Personnel is policy”, and the shortage of counselors (not to mention their evident lack of needed skills and personal qualities for the task) would appear to belie the stated intentions to care for people.

CU Dad: She should have been medicated and hospitalised, not matriculated at any university.

I agree.

Samuel Conner,

Before it can ostentatiously blaspheme Christ’s name.

In my experience – and I have some – this is not limited to CU, or even evangelical colleges. As Samuel Connor points out, this is a problem that pervades society (and, may I add, history). Where evangelical institutions handicap themselves is the requirement to subscribe to a statement of beliefs – not just any statement, either. Theirs. Professional competence is not the most important item, thus the depth of the candidate pool for any job is shallow.

Dee, typically I’m 100% on board with your posts… however, this time there is a critical piece of “evidence” missing… a screenshot or picture of the actual email that went out to the deans and chairs proclaiming CU’s innocence. That’s the evidence on which this entire post is based. Can your “trusted friend” provide that email? If not, this is all hearsay. BTW, I’m an alum and former CU employee.

researcher: administrating

Tyoo…”administrating” should be “administration”

While I am not a psych expert , I do have a background in psych nursing.

What I think I see here is an understaffed counseling center, one that appears over it head in dealing with real serious psych issues and probably relying a lot on biblical ( nouthetic ) counseling which can be healthful in some cases but in many instances NOT.

The problem of short staffed college counseling is almost epidemic in our local universities in my area from what I hear. Students today have a lot of pressures that were IMHO not prevalent 30 years or more ago. They are hurting.
Solutions don’t seem that hard , hire more Christian licensed staff ( do they have to walk the reformed , stringent line or can they just love Jesus) , since most students have insurance , contract out with a local psych hospital or agency
to help streamline admittance. What seems to have happened is that the administration cleaned house of some caring believers who helped the above to function in her school setting because they didn’t meet the party’s viewpoint leaving the student without some strong attachments to other, they wiped out her support system.

This university seems to be run like a indoctrination camp, ie North Korea, there can be no dissent from the party line, it is what is most valued , not having a loving Christ modeling staff. This is what often causes psych problems, this rigid, you have to conform to every rule and doctrine process. I had a roommate at a Christian college that as I was walking into our dorm room was cutting his wrists, I took the knife away, called for help and went to the hospital with him ( first week there) , my roommate came from a very rigid, legalistic background. To it’s credit that school had a vibrant counseling office, they even contacted me to see if I needed help after witnessing the event. We took the student to the hospital, I went along the dean and RA, he got treatment and returned a year later and did well. The school even checked in with me to see if I needed any help in dealing with what I witnessed.
It was a nurturing place.

Just make the campus one of having the compassion of Christ. Pick RA’s who exude the love of Christ, open door policy, here’s a novel one, a president who is always available to chat. If they are building him a bigger home for more entertaining , than President White, one day a week , have some students, particularly ones who are lonely or isolated ( talk to the RA’s, whose lonely, seems down etc) over to your home to eat with others and try to create home away from home atmosphere. ( I have been invited to professor’s homes with other students for dinner, meant a lot )
I know a Christian college president who knows the name of every student on campus and is always about campus greeting them, talking to them and getting to know them. Give freedom to the staff to love the students, get away from making them toe narrow doctrinal lines. Then you start to have a college that is truly Christian. It isn’t that hard. The Bible shows you the way.
Leadership flows top down, it would grieve me to know that these things were occurring on my campus under my leadership, that students were being hurt, losing their faith and leaving as broken individuals.

Chuck,

I went to a Christian college like that, and I was telling my wife this morning that the President of the college when I was there did exactly what you said, was an avdemic, and spent the last 30 years of his career their…. and died in a home near the school…. there is a bronze statue of him and his wife on campus…. As far as I know this person was the opposite of Page Patterson, Al Mohler, White, and “Jr”…

CU Dad: This student’s parents should have obtained inpatient psychiatric treatment for her instead of sending her to college.

The severity at the time the student enrolled is not clear. The assault took place after the student matriculated. It seems plausible that CU mishandled a manageable situation, and it turned into a full-blown crisis.

When people turn 18, parents have limited rights unless the adult child is an imminent danger to self or others. It is generally believed that adults in crisis should ask for help rather than having it forced on them. This student asked for help.

And crises can happen to ANYONE. When I was a student, a dorm burned down. Trust me, kids in fine mental health were severely traumatized. I knew kids who escaped the fire. Some still suffered years later.

Moreover, it’s a fair bet that many CU students have been raised in exceedingly strict homes. Their mental health might improve once they have a tiny bit of adult autonomy.

If you have intimate knowledge of this student’s mental health before matriculation, please feel free to say so. In any event, I hope that your own child never needs skills that exceed those found at CU.

A great angelic host in Heaven stand in amazement, eyes opened wide, jaws dropped to the golden street … astonished that Thomas White is still in a leadership position at CU!

Reminder, that just months ago White & Co. had Anthony Moore in charge of a semester-long course on “Counseling & Mentoring Men”!

screenshot:

https://julieroys.com/cedarville-u-fires-professor-with-history-of-admitted-sexual-abuse/course_counseling-mentoring-men/

justicecollective: Dr. Thomas White helped Paige Patterson cover up Megan Lively’s rape in 2003 at SEBTS. White claims he doesn’t remember Lively, but Lively absolutely remembers him. He was in the room with Patterson, helping him “break her down.”

This alone should disqualify Dr. White from a leadership role at a Christian institution. The Anthony Moore situation just pushed him over the top. Yet, he is still at CU!

(the benefit of a yes-man board of trustees and a disgusting display of power within the Christian Industrial Complex)

It’s Friday. I’ve had a weary week reading about pool boy perversions, yes-men elders, celebrity cults, and slimy leaders at Christian institutions. Think I’ll go fishing …

Reminder, the presidential search committee that brought Thomas White to Cedarville was chaired by bigtime ‘nouthetic counseling’ advocate Randy Patten:

https://www.cedarville.edu/-/media/Files/PDF/President/Thomas-White-Inauguration-Program.pdf

[pdf page 11]
“Rev. Randy Patten, Trustee, Chair of the Presidential Search Committee”

Rev. Patten was then Executive Director of ‘nouthetic counseling’ outfit NANC!

https://www.biblicalcounselingcoalition.org/2012/10/22/the-nanc-leadership-transition-part-one-a-bcc-interview-with-heath-lambert/

Heath Lambert: “Randy Patten will remain the Executive Director until October 1, 2013. At that time I will assume leadership of NANC and Randy will become NANC’s Director of Training and Advancement.”

Friend: Avoid yachts.

Good one! 🙂

Friend: The hair, coach-like Nike shirt, earpiece, tone of voice, gestures, are all supposed to project authority. There’s an apology for something, and a promise to do better, and then he takes a knee and shuts his eyes.

Max: … and cries without tears. They all read the same playbook. Unfortunately, their followers are so gullible that they buy the counterfeit thinking it is genuine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84thE0FI83c

Samuel Conner: Is there a shortage of qualified candidates for open posts, or is there a cap on the head count of people that the university is willing to hire for this “caring well” function?

I suspect that the shortage of candidates is self-inflicted. You probably have to go to the right church and sign a statement of faith that might not be helpful to effectively treat students with mental health concerns. This is seriously going to limit the number of people who will want to work for CU. As for “cap”, CU probably also doesn’t pay the market rate.

Todd Wilhelm: It’s tough to watch that video of Thomas White, but I must admit, it’s an Oscar-worthy job of acting.

And we all know the Koine Greek word for “actor performing a role”, don’t we?

Todd Wilhelm: I highly recommend the article.

In reading through the article, the deconstruction of the sentences and phrases, it was like reading descriptions of ideas or feelings I often can’t put into words when reading through similar written information.

I wish I had the ability to do such deconstruction!!!

Fisher: One of my oldest friends is a long time attender at that church and thinks his pastor is standing up for what’s right!

Drink the cool-aid commard?

Fisher: Maybe I just need a day off.

What helps you these days?

I mainly stay home, and fortunately our household gets along. Routine includes daily walks, texting and emailing friends, and checking in with TWW. I also have creative outlets, including volunteer research projects.

My guilty pleasure is watching live feeds of kittens on a YouTube channel called TinyKittens HQ: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCeL2LSl91k2VccR7XEh5IKg

My other guilty pleasure is watching NHL games, go figure. 😉

Friend: My guilty pleasure is watching live feeds of kittens on a YouTube channel called TinyKittens HQ: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCeL2LSl91k2VccR7XEh5IKg

I LOVE TinyKittens! I’m still sad about Mason’s death, but his story is amazing!

I also like watching Key’ush the stunt dog. He’s a Husky mix who talks like a human. Of course, half his words are “waffle” (his favorite food), but he’s probably more understandable than I am…

Muff Potter: nice bunch o’ Crappies

You talking about the board of trustees? 😉

The analysis of TW’s statement by Dr Dahl linked by

Todd Wilhelm,

is compelling and helpful.

I am scratching my head a little, however.

I may be mis-remembering, but IIRC when the AM scandal burst into broad daylight some time ago, the scandal was basically about TW bringing a known hazardous person onto campus. At the time, IIRC, it was publicly affirmed that there was no known evidence that AM had harmed anyone in the CU community.

Now, some time later, there is in TW’s quasi-mea culpa mention of the importance of prevention and victims and caring well for prevention. No details, of course. But this seems to me to imply that something preventable happened in the CU community that resulted in someone’s victimization.

Am I justified in intuiting that this language suggests that the CU investigation uncovered evidence that there were some CU victims in this case?

Just trying to make sense of the different bits of content that are present in the TW statement. It seems to me that if the only thing that went wrong in the AM case is that he was hired at all(and the deception surrounding that), then quite of bit of what TW said in that statement would not need to have been said.

Todd Wilhelm: She has also analyzed Bryan Loritts’ explanation of what went on at his former church in Memphis.

As I read through the transcript, what kept replaying in my mind as I read was Bryan Lorrits’ voice saying “It’s all about me….”.

Dr. Dahl provided a much more thorough explanation… 🙂

Fisher,

Muff Potter: Catch a nice bunch o’ Crappies, fire up the outside fryer, beer batter, you know the drill!

Muff Potter: Catch a nice bunch o’ Crappies, fire up the outside fryer, beer batter, you know the drill!

There will be crappie fillets and hush puppies frying in peanut oil in the backyard this weekend! However, I will not use beer in the batter … I still have a remnant of Southern Baptist in me that won’t allow me to touch the stuff 🙂 Instead, I have a batter that has a spicy kick to it.

Wishing all the Wartburgers a Happy Holiday Weekend!

Several people mentioned a form of counseling called “Nouthetic counseling”!

I had never heard of such a thing, so I Googled and found this at Wikipedia:

Nouthetic counseling (Greek: noutheteo, to admonish) is a form of evangelical Protestant pastoral counseling based solely upon the Bible and focused on Christ. It repudiates mainstream psychology and psychiatry as humanistic, fundamentally opposed to Christianity, and radically secular.

To me, this rejection of science and evidence-based medical services is why we can’t travel to any other country right now; why we have nearly 190,000 people dead of a virus; why people don’t wear simple masks to prevent passing the infection.

And Nouthetic counseling won’t get you licensed to practice anywhere, I don’t think. A college needs to believe in science, or they are in the wrong business. Making up a fancy Greek term for reading the Bible to cure mental problems is just wrong when we have a century of research into treating mental illness, and even medical drug treatments for many well defined mental problems.

My wife has been seeing psychiatrists for decades, and when her meds begin to not work as well, they will modify a prescription. Without that medical care she probably wouldn’t be with us, wouldn’t be capable of relationships, of caring for herself. She managed to be successful in a high-stress career, although PTSD haS been an issue at times.

My first pass at college in 1968-69 a good friend down the hall just disappeared one day. No students knew what happened, to this day I wonder how he is doing. Evidently his parents saw something going wrong and he vanished, perhaps into treatment, that was before medication was common in the mental health field.

These people running this college are in it for the money and the power. A shame. They are harming young people who need help and don’t care about their students at all. Covering up abuse and their lack of care for those who need it badly. It will all come home to roost eventually.

Thomas White’s video to parents of prospective students says the following:

-He knows tuition is higher at a Christian colleges, and is determined to “keep the cost low.” Switcheroo! It’s not low now.

-He says 50%-80% of Evangelical young adults who go to college leave the church in the first year or two. The Cedarville solution is to immerse students, having Bible content in every class and constant religious activities. CU graduates are supposed to move on to local church “excited.”

-AFTER this he talks about academic quality, helpfully saying that CU graduates will not steal from their employers. (I guess he thinks most colleges have a major in Embezzlement.)

-A CU education will prepare students to “defend their faith against other worldviews” (around 2:30). Does anybody need a four-year degree for this? Is this even a good way to live in God’s world?

I’ve visited scads of campuses over the years and have never seen a video by the president pitched at parents. Are these common?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ThOaOjErS8s&t=105s&ab_channel=CedarvilleUniversity

Todd Wilhelm,

Todd – thank you for your response to my inquiry regarding “the memo”. I do believe that the memo exists, I was just hoping that someone had access to it. I’m a CU alum and former employee who still lives in the area and briefly attended the same SBC church that Tom Mach and Thomas White attended. The White family left and started attending Grace Baptist Church in Cedarville about the time that Anthony Moore was hired at CU. [A conspiracy theorist may start to connect the dots here.] At the time I attended, CU wielded a heavy presence, many people in leadership had strong ties to CU. Pastors (with full-time CU positions making a second part-time income via the local church),as well as deacons and elders, etc. all with a stake .

I’ve driven by the president’s new home.

I appreciate your diligence in bringing the truth out into the open

Todd Wilhelm: This way when the memo is published there will be a manageable amount of individuals to interogate to determine who the leaker is and then take the appropriate action against the individual.

Especially if each copy of the memo has some subtle individual indicator — a misspelling here, a typo there — that allows identification and tracing of each copy.

And is that “action” as in REPRISALS?

Still, a leaked copywould provide a solid backup validating what you said.

Headless Unicorn Guy,

We should be patient. It is clear the “heat is on” with respect to leadership at CU. And, there is clear “issues” coming to light.

Friend: -He says 50%-80% of Evangelical young adults who go to college leave the church in the first year or two.

I have read similar claims made by Ken Ham as backing for his view that it is essential to indoctrinate the young in the views his organization promotes.

No idea whether the statistic is valid, but if it is… it suggests that the churches are functioning sort of like an occupying army in the lives of the young, but failing to “win hearts and minds.” Which, if true, is both tragic and paradoxical, Jesus being the transcendently beautiful figure that he is.

Evidently TW reckons that if you can maintain the occupation for 4 years longer, it will make all the difference. I doubt it.

J R in WV: And Nouthetic counseling won’t get you licensed to practice anywhere, I don’t think.

I believe that both “nouthetic” and “biblical” counseling are not recognized in any US jurisdiction that licenses counselors. I’m pretty confident that people trained in these approaches can be licensed, but in order to do that they would have to demonstrate competence in counseling methods that the state recognizes.

It would be useful to have comparative studies on the efficacy of these religion-based methods versus the state-approved approaches. That’s probably wishing for the moon, though.

Friend,

Yup

Max,

Well, the clowns that we read about on TWW have not convinced me, Biblically, that their specific, rule based Christianity, is the “true church”. I would go step further, I wonder how a hard core 5 Marks church would view Mark Driscoll’s new church, or McArthur’s church, etc? Or, how would President White view Driscoll Church? We can play this game all afternoon. We do know that most of these “churches” that I just mention would view me as “marginal”, at best, since I believe in Physics which says earth, Universe, is WAY older than 10-20,000 years old…
Yet, I have not covered up disgusting sexual, or other disgusting abuse like each of them have… and I believe that Christ came to bring light and freedom, not darkness, control, shuning, to people seeking truth

Max: IMO, the Dones are perhaps one of the largest growing groups of genuine Christians in America. Some are Wartburgers.

I agree that Pew emphasizes affiliation, but it also has a graphic called “Broad-based declines in share of Americans who say they are Christian.”

We stopped attending church because I reached a point where I came home after services every Sunday and went back to bed sobbing. This happened because a temporary issue at the church brought a tidal wave of old unresolved church-abuse memories into my mind. Our offspring were frightened for me and associated my distress with church.

So we stayed away for five years, with the knowledge and understanding of enlightened clergy. I wrote the pastor a letter about my distress at no longer participating and volunteering. He wrote back and said, “Who you are matters infinitely more than what you do” on Sundays and for the congregation.

Now we grownups are participating again, but offspring do not see the value. The best I can do is live by example. I trust in God’s mercy that He would not send our children to Hell because I had a crisis driven by abuse long ago in a church far away.

Max: Many ‘Christian’ leaders have been proven to be charlatans, wolves in sheep’s clothing, demons masquerading as angels of light, deceivers with another gospel, cult celebrities, etc.

Aside, Max:
I figure “demons masquerading as angels of light” was just the Rabbit from Tarsus’s poetic description of how successful Sociopaths are MASTERS of camouflaging what they are. I grew up with one, and NOBODY else was able to see the Master Manipulator or Sociopath, only the Sweet Little Angel.

Samuel Conner: I have read similar claims made by Ken Ham as backing for his view that it is essential to indoctrinate the young in the views his organization promotes.

As far as I am concerned, what Ken Ham is selling is a pack of lies. Yeah, that’s bold of me, but I honestly do believe the physical evidence of the age of the earth and the distance of the stars shows that Ken is making stuff up (to be nice about it). And when people find out they’ve been sold a pack of lies, what do they usually do? Bail. Yeah, some may double down on the deception, but a lot of people just leave. And the other thing I’d say to Ken Ham and his followers is “If you’re going to lie to me about the age of the earth, or the consistency of the speed of light, then why should I believe you when you say you know the way to God? That’s right–I should not.”

As for the original topic…I’ve just been *sick* inside. I have some experience with mental health treatment as a patient and the way the former CU student was treated viscerally affected me. So much *wrong* happened here. Parents are paying or signing on to loans for enormous sums of money ($32K in tuition *alone* for just one year) and yet this allegedly “Christian” “university” had an obviously ill student sign a non-disclosure agreement. I would argue that the legality of the NDA is under question because the student signed it under duress and while under treatment for a serious illness. If this is what CU and its leadership are doing, you all need to *stop* before some student decided they’ve been badly abused by you lot, sues you and all your secrets come tumbling out.

CU, Thomas White, Mindy May and the rest ought to be ashamed and mortified at the way they treated this student and others. I strongly suspect that, at bottom, White, May and many others at CU don’t believe serious mental illness exists. Let me rent you two clues: 1) it does and 2) medication can definitely improve a person’s quality of life. I’m a living example of this. I have chronic major depression, and I’ve been on medication for it for over two decades. I’ve also held increasingly more demanding jobs over that period and done other things during that time. But let me be clear: Nouthetic counseling can do NOTHING for serious mental illness. We are not talking about the blues. We are talking about things like near constant suicidal ideation. It’s not sin we’re talking about here–we are talking about bodily functions that are out of whack and can be improved via “better living through chemistry.”

Counseling can help a person after they’ve been stabilized, but nouthetic counseling can’t help a person with major depressive disorder, bipolar, schizophrenia or other illnesses that pretty much require treatment with medication. For the record, you’ve not lived until you’ve heard your mother tell her psychiatrist that yes, she’s still seeing some hallucinations of animals with big eyes and the voices are still there, but they’re inaudible. My mother’s paranoid schizophrenia has been a not-insignificant part of my life, and she’d been sick 50 years before I actually heard her state in words what her experience was. She’s on medication and she recognizes the voices and hallucinations for what they are, but they’re still there. I shudder to think what would happen to a person with schizophrenia falling into the hands of a nouthetic counselor.

I’m just going to say again to parents that having your adult child go to this kind of a cesspool in the name of preserving their Christian faith is more likely to destroy it or worse. You would do better and more likely save money by looking into local universities or even starting out at a community college. But don’t have your son or daughter going to a place like CU. It’s just unhealthy.

researcher: Who decided if a person was a None or a Done?

I’m sure the Pew studies lump Dones with Nones, since neither have local church affiliation. The Nones don’t attend church because they don’t believe in Jesus for the most part … the Dones have dropped out of organized church because they can’t find Jesus there (just teachings and traditions of men and religious people).

American Christians – in this current age of church as entertainment, church as indoctrination, celebrity church, mega-mania, etc. – are faced with a tension between two passages of Scripture:

“Forsake not the assembling of yourselves together” vs.
“Come out from her My People and be not a partaker of her sins”

After 70+ years of attending churches which conducted themselves largely without God, I made my decision. I have a burden for a genuine revival among God’s people and spiritual awakening in the nation, and pray daily for that. I do that as a Done, not a None. The Body of Christ is my church affiliation and I find it in various places … including The Wartburg Watch!

Muslin, fka Dee Holmes,

Your thoughtful comment confirmed some things for me, clarified some things for me, and provided me with some things upon which to reflect….

Thanks for taking the time to write. 🙂

Max,

“My definition of a “Done” = a true believer, a real-deal Christian who is done with the organized church, but not done with Jesus.

IMO, the Dones are perhaps one of the largest growing groups of genuine Christians in America. Some are Wartburgers.”
++++++++++++++

‘tcha….. i’m even done with “Christian”.

it’s a brand. and a scuzzy one. an embarrassing brand. a pretentious brand that can’t hide it’s connotations of poor quality. a dishonest brand with corrupt people behind it.

i believe in the triune God, living in me each day as the vine, i am the branches, and we work together to make the world a kinder, cleaner, safer, healing place…. and i reserve the right to call it what I want.

elastigirl: i’m even done with “Christian”.

it’s a brand. and a scuzzy one. an embarrassing brand. a pretentious brand that can’t hide it’s connotations of poor quality. a dishonest brand with corrupt people behind it.

The term definitely doesn’t have the same meaning in the 21st century church as it did in the 1st century Body of Christ.

“And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.” (Acts 11:26)

The persecuted early Church was willing to die to lift up the precious name of Jesus … many in today’s church would respond “Jesus who?” if asked to confess faith in Him under threat (something that is already happening in certain parts of the world).

elastigirl: i believe in the triune God, living in me each day as the vine, i am the branches, and we work together to make the world a kinder, cleaner, safer, healing place…. and i reserve the right to call it what I want.

Wondrous.

researcher: I think the word “corrupt” is more accurate

If the shoe fits, wear it.

Many corrupt the Word of God (2 Cor 2:17).

elastigirl,

i mean a snowglobe would be bad enough…. but a tv commercial…

a black mirror episode waiting to happen (although they’d have to repeat the snowglobe theme)

elastigirl: i’d need to be under the influence of something, i’m sure.

Salvador Dali liquid center pancakes?

https://depositphotos.com/244476162/stock-photo-crepes-franch-pancakes-thin-inspired.html

Friend,

ok, so i just checked and BevMo doesn’t sell something called Salvador Dali… i’ll look at your link.

elastigirl: (i’m going to need that substance…)

Here’s some music to bring joy to you and all of us, Cab Calloway singing “Everybody Eats When They Come to My House:”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E03NZOIxGmQ&ab_channel=laughland

Friend,

how very apropos!

Friend,

I don’t disagree that fewer people are going to church. I just don’t think the solution is to send evangelical college students to a “Christian” college. I suspect the causes for declines in church attendance are many and nuanced, and putting off a young person’s exposure to “the world” may just delay the inevitable by four more years. People are ceasing to be regular church attenders in their 20s, in their 40s, in their 70s.

I wonder how much of the decline is that it is simply more socially acceptable now to not attend. And I’m not entirely convinced this is a bad thing.

Wild Honey,

But fewer butts in the pews means less dollars and “bragging” rights/political power for preachers and denominations..
How many times have heard xxx is the fastest growing, and yyy has zzz million attenders… I always liked the tag line about the Mormon Church…. but boy you now do not hear about the mass exodus…

“Cedarville University Counseling Center has never done anything wrong and that none of the students’ stories are true.”

That statement is ridiculous on its face. If it’s true, (and we need proof), one of two things has to happen. 1) we see faculty departing in droves, or 2) White finally gets exposed beyond all repair and is ended.

ishy,

“Many people I knew had codependent relationships with their parents and had bad homesickness, but the stories they would tell me about things that happened on vacations were kinda creepy,….”
+++++++++++++++++++

well, now i’m curious.

(no obligation to say more, though)

ishy: it just made those students angrier and more likely to distance themselves if they were forced to go to Liberty, but there’s definitely a belief among parents that Christian university will continue to shelter their kids

Some parents send problem kids to “Christian” colleges, looking at them as reform schools to straighten their brats out. That seldom works.

ishy: but there’s definitely a belief among parents that Christian university will continue to shelter their kids.

“And you’ll only drink milk
If it comes from a CHRISTIAN cow;
Don’t spend your hard-earned bread
Keeping those HEATHENS well-fed —
Line Christian pocketes instead!”
— Steve Taylor, “Guilty by Association”

Anna A: The college that you are talking about wouldn’t be in the Bluegrass area, would it?

No, not that one. All I can say it’s in the South, sorta. I’m sorry but I can’t give you the exact location of my whereabouts. The New Calvinists have been trying to figure that out for years, so they can come pay me a visit 🙂

justicecollective,

I was counseled by Joy and she was wonderful. I don’t want to give many details as to protect her and myself, but I felt supported and heard by her. Upon intake the questionnaire asked if I had prior counseling, which I did. Am I lucky to have been placed with Joy, or was it because I knew what counseling was supposed to be like?

ishy: Her parents told her that, as a woman, her only purpose in life was to provide them grandkids, and that she was useless and unwanted without being married with kids. I know this because I heard her mother shouting it at her on campus one day. She was one of the most dysfunctional people I’ve ever met.

One of the saddest things I’ve every heard…

Jeffrey Chalmers: People thought I might be imbelishing these stores; however, a number of years ago a Facebook page was started for those us that attended the school, and other people posted their memories of these ” sermons”.

Yeah, I had a good bit of culture shock after transferring from UGA. I mean, at UGA, people were throwing up and passing out in the hallways drunk every Thursday night.

I just thought of another thing. Students often didn’t have cars at Liberty, not because their parents couldn’t afford them, but because their parents wanted to trap them on campus. My dad had given me the old family minivan, so every time I went anywhere, there were sometimes 10 people wanting to come, just so they could leave the school. That was very different from UGA, where a lot of students had cars, but Athens also has a very good public transit system that is free to students. Lynchburg might have had one, but it didn’t come to LU then if there was. I don’t think I paid attention enough, but I don’t think Lynchburg had one. And I’ve told y’all before about the professor I had who boasted about how his young daughter would have an arranged marriage, because she could only marry someone he chose that was from a “well-known” and “famous” family. Crazy.

ishy: They were told what to wear. I remember one girl told me that her brother, who was only a couple years older, was required to “babysit” her, but basically could do whatever he wanted because he was male. Her parents told her she would get pregnant if she held hands with a man.

This sounds eerily similar to what young unmarried women must endure under fundamental Islam.

ishy: And I’ve told y’all before about the professor I had who boasted about how his young daughter would have an arranged marriage, because she could only marry someone he chose that was from a “well-known” and “famous” family.

Like the Heir to House Bolton, Wardens of the North under Queen Circe?
As soon as she “flowered”?

Max: There is an SBC-affiliated college near me … many of the kids travel to a nearby city on weekends to party, getting away from the rules and regulations on the Christian campus. A 20-something is going to do what s/he is going to do.

Especially when you factor in American drinking age, where up until 21 it’s Strictly Forbidden and the instant you turn 21 there’s NO restriction whatsoever. Along with driver’s license and popping your cherry, the closest thing we have in American culture to an adulthood “rite of passage”. Add to this Baptist “Dry” Culture (where one drop of alcohol is The Unpardonable Sin) and you get Forbidden Fruit (now accessible without restriction) on steroids. With newly-adult kids coming out of a background where they were never taught how to handle it, only “Thou Shalt Not”. They’re gonna go wild and have NO idea of how to do it responsibly.

“You Americans are just like the Irish! When you drink, you drink as Strong as you can and as Much as you can to get as Drunk as you can as Fast as you can.”
— Italian priest whose American seminarians balked at wine with breakfast, invoking the Dry Pledge

ishy,

I seem to remember you saying that you once wore jeans to class at LU just to get a rise out of Professor… Pants were taboo for girls at my HS, and tight jeans were scandalous…. a girl would be suspended, and potentially expelled for that..

ishy: I do remember one girl telling me her parents wouldn’t let her own a car or move out on her own until she was 25, and she was afraid they wouldn’t even then.

Bondage.

My wife was friends in highschool with a girl whose father was a pentecostal preacher. She was required to wear certain clothes, no makeup, and a hairstyle that clearly marked her as one of the holy ones. As soon as she graduated and struck out on her own, she shed all the trappings of that lifestyle … and somehow became a normal adult while still holding onto faith in Christ (rather than religious rules).

Jeffrey Chalmers: I seem to remember you saying that you once wore jeans to class at LU just to get a rise out of Professor… Pants were taboo for girls at my HS, and tight jeans were scandalous…. a girl would be suspended, and potentially expelled for that..

It wasn’t to class and not to upset anyone. I had a 102 degree temperature and there was snow on the ground. I was waiting for the health center to open. An RA went ballistic on me and threatened to get me expelled for being “rebellious”. The doctor at the health center wrote me a note that removed my reprimands, which further enraged the RA, so that RA had it out for me for awhile after that.

ishy,

I will add that particular RA was male and made the comment that “Women should know their place and wear dresses.” We could wear jeans while not in class, so jeans weren’t all that uncommon. And technically, I was not in class, so shouldn’t have been given reps. But this RA was clearly ultra-fundamentalistn and had it out for women. I pity the woman he coerced into marrying him. I am certain he is abusive.

ishy,

“I had a 102 degree temperature and there was snow on the ground. I was waiting for the health center to open. An RA went ballistic on me and threatened to get me expelled for being “rebellious”. The doctor at the health center wrote me a note that removed my reprimands, which further enraged the RA, so that RA had it out for me for awhile after that.”

“I will add that particular RA was male and made the comment that “Women should know their place and wear dresses.”
++++++++++++++++

it’s times like this… i think about karma and smile quite smug.

Jeffrey Chalmers: the more they fuss about it

There’s a certain highly rude new song that I won’t name here. I heard about it first through the protestations of fundagelicals, and then through people making fun of their reactions.

It’s a weird variation of the Streisand Effect. “Let me tell you all about this thing you’re not supposed to know! My gosh, is it ever wicked!”

ishy: It doesn’t make people any more pure

Imagine the power to decide whether a garment is too revealing, a book or movie too dirty, or a health class curriculum too indecent. And you get to stand up in front of hundreds of people every Sunday and tell them what they are not allowed to wear, read, watch, or learn. These things would harm the flock, but they somehow never sully the experts.

ishy: And I’ve told y’all before about the professor I had who boasted about how his young daughter would have an arranged marriage, because she could only marry someone he chose that was from a “well-known” and “famous” family. Crazy.

My family went to a fairly conservative church when I was in high school, in the 90s. The youth group (which I didn’t get involved in) kicked it up a notch. I know of one girl who, after embracing purity culture, told her dad that she wanted her dad to pick out her future husband. The dad flatly refused.

ishy: my dad looked totally incredulous.

I heard about a dad who said to the suitor, “Why are you asking me? She’s the one who’ll have to sleep with you.”

Friend: It’s a weird variation of the Streisand Effect. “Let me tell you all about this thing you’re not supposed to know! My gosh, is it ever wicked!”

That’s actually called “Pornography for the Pious.”.
How else can RESPECTABLE Church Ladies get their fix of all that JUICY vicarious SIN SIN SIN?
And still stay Pious and Respectable?

Regarding Forbidden Fruit, here’s a very old B.C. Comic Strip:

(Snake is booking along under an apple tree.)
TREE: Hey, Snake!
(Snake looks up.)
TREE: I’m the Forbidden Fruit!”
(Snake looks through the fourth wall directly at the reader.)
SNAKE: NOW he tells me!

justicecollective,

I only checked Texas and Ohio but it appears Ms May has never been licensed. One former faculty member in department at her old school has moved to Liberty and I had to sue them

Wild Honey: I know of one girl who, after embracing purity culture, told her dad that she wanted her dad to pick out her future husband. The dad flatly refused.

Good for her dad!
As a father and grandfather myself, I would have told her that if I wanted that kind of control and micro-management in my kid’s lives, I’d convert to fundamental Islam.

Max: “How did Thomas White end up as CU President in the first place?”

Ah yes, but he’d be nowhere without that coach-like aura. It is absolutely uncanny, like everybody within the sound of his voice may or may not make the 53-man roster cut.

the 2013 Baptist Press story proclaimed that Cedarville was “endorsed by the State Convention of Baptists in Ohio, one of 42 state/regional conventions within the Southern Baptist Convention.”

but this year in the articles on White’s suspension and reinstatement, Baptist Press instead characterized Cedarville as an “independent Baptist school”:

https://www.baptistpress.com/resource-library/news/cedarville-places-president-on-leave-announces-investigations-into-hiring-conduct-of-former-faculty-member/

https://www.baptistpress.com/resource-library/news/cedarville-university-reinstates-thomas-white-akin-vroegop-resign-from-trustee-board/

Jerome,

Perhaps CU dropped their SBC-affiliation and went independent as a result of SWBTS booting Patterson from the President’s office there … White wouldn’t have liked that one bit, treating his mentor that way.

I’m curious about White saying he “owned four karate schools in South Carolina…was the Middleweight World Amateur Sport Karate international champion in 1993…is a member of the World Martial Arts Hall of Fame”:

https://www.journal-news.com/news/cedarville-university-names-new-president/L0DI1NFXHFcvmyEpjG1OyJ/

What’s the ‘World Martial Arts Hall of Fame’ anyway?

Max: Jerome: a member of the World Martial Arts Hall of Fame

Don’t see Dr. White’s name on this list of WMAHF inductees:

http://wmahf.semkhor.com/page.asp?content_id=2994

Whoops! My mistake … his name is there.

Jerome: What’s the ‘World Martial Arts Hall of Fame’ anyway?

I suspect it is this http://wmahf.semkhor.com/page.asp?content_id=2994

since a Thomas White is on their list. It strikes me as dubious and defunct.

With all the bad press they’re (Cedarville and other fundagelical colleges) getting, I wonder if it’s occurred to them that they either change or go extinct.

ishy,

To state the obvious, the pandemic will change things too.

Looks like LU is hesitating to release covid numbers. The other two colleges in Lynchburg put up their online covid dashboards last month. Story from September 3:

Since in-person classes began late last month, Liberty has declined to release daily COVID-19 figures but has agreed to provide weekly updates to the media. Anderson said the school is still in the process of developing the dashboard, which will provide updates to the public “on a regular basis” with real-time data.

Wagner-Klazinga said the university did not directly alert the student body about the 30 positive test results and she first learned about the infections in the news.

https://newsadvance.com/news/local/liberty-university/liberty-university-to-launch-covid-19-dashboard/article_182328b8-016a-5c35-a6e2-8e50ed22cdeb.html

Friend: Looks like LU is hesitating to release covid numbers. The other two colleges in Lynchburg put up their online covid dashboards last month.

The public university where I live is doing the same thing, even amidst lawsuits. So that, at least, is not unique to Christian colleges.

Where I live was just renamed a hotspot after managing to calm down the numbers.

Friend,

To my mind, what is even more appalling….

From the linked article: Liberty did not require students to take a COVID-19 test before returning to campus.

researcher,

In contrast, one of my sons had to take a test, at a specific time when he arrived. Next he immediately quarantene until he has a second negative test…. then he is let out of his room, but hard core rules….Which they enforce by sending you home….. which they have…. it almost sounds like a prison…
LU is being caviler, just like the stats show that many evangelicals are..

Friend: There’s still a nationwide shortage of tests. Many colleges are not requiring a negative test before students return. There are also problems with getting results in a timely fashion. This varies by where the student lives.

My apologies, Friend. Thank you for reminding me of what I sometimes forget…

I try to stay on top of the national and international school situation(s), and much of my reading has included how the various schools (and their districts, etc.) have incorporated (or not) COVID-19 testing, self-isolation, and quarantine into everyday life.

There are so many details to be balanced and considered. And unfortunately, I think your words Right now every college is running an experiment in the wild. Some are better than others. could be applied to more than colleges. Very big sigh.

Sarah,

He’s not in that Hall of Fame. My guess it that his impact was either providing money or favorable publicity to the person/group responsible to the hall of fame he was in.

Friend: No matter how much we read, there are more situations than we can even imagine.

Amen to that!!!

Sarah: This begs the question… what was Tom White’s historic and iconic impact on the martial arts community?

One concussion too many?