Together For the Gospel (T4G) and Money: Are Donors Comfortable With How Their Hard Earned Money Is Used?

Posted on by April 7, 2020avatar

Dollar Wallpaper

“Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen six, result happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pound ought and six, result misery.” –-Charles Dickens

Todd Wilhelm, Thou Art the Man, was the one who found out all of the information found in this post. TWW has often commented that there is lots of money in the conference circuit. Todd has given us the beginning of an insight into a lucrative business that is T4G. While reading, keep the following in mind.

    • $25,000  salary to Mark Dever for two hours of work per week.
    • $62,000 grant to Thabiti Anyabwile’s Anacostia River Church.
    • $247,000 annual salary and other compensation to Matt Schmucker.

Todd first wrote “T4G – When Will the Evangelical Leaders Cancel Their Gospelly Conference?”

“I fully expect the T4G Gospelly boys to announce they are cancelling their conference any day now, but it’s rather shameful that the Governor of Kentucky may have to threaten the leaders with house arrest if they refuse to do so!”  This morning Mark Dever and Matt Schmucker published a statement and a video in which Dever said, “Government officials have informed us that we can no longer gather for the Together for the Gospel Conference.” Schmucker, not quite as forthright in his written explanation as Dever was in the video, stated: “our love for neighbor and submission to authority overrides even our desire to gather, hear good preaching, sing, and collect books.”  Call me skeptical, but if one realizes that above all, these guys are peddlers of the Gospel their actions become much clearer.

Todd then predicted the following:

Two days ago I also stated: “Watch for them to ask those who have paid the $300 conference fee to donate it to T4G.  And watch their “partners in the gospel” do it!” Again, I am a rather simple-minded man, but a child of three could have figured this out. If you have followed T4G over the years you know that the crowd queuing up to plunk their hard-earned cash down for a seat in the KFC Yum! Center in Louisville is comprised of overwhelmingly winsome white men in their 20-30s. They idolize preachers like John MacArthur and C.J. Mahaney (neither were scheduled to speak this year), talks about church discipline, church membership contracts, and all things Calvin.

John MacArthur at the 2016 T4G conference, surrounded by his worshippers.

So what happened when the conference was finally cancelled out of *love for our neighbor?* (Somehow, I have a feeling it had nothing to do with love for neighbor and e everything to do with government guidelines.) The leader dudes applied the pressure and said that T4G would not be able to survive without the conferees letting T4G to keep their money. (They sure as heck wouldn’t be able to pay Schmucker $200,000+)

Todd wrote Wilberforce Weekend Demonstrates it Doesn’t Have to be All About the Money!and explored what happened.

Todd observed that the money sent in for registration was already spent, not invested.

You can go to his post and listen to Dever and Schmucker tap dance in trying to explain why they are broke unless you let them keep your money.

“We’ve taken your money that you have given us since September and have already invested it… So we’ve invested all this money, in one sense we don’t have it anymore, and the expenses still remain and we are completely relying on the registration money and our sponsor money. So the remaining expenses have to be paid, about ninety percent of it, from the registration money.”  -Matt Schmucker

Not exactly Matt. The definition of invest is “to use your money with the goal of making a profit from it, for example by buying property or buying stock in a company,” I’m no business expert, but it appears to me that what you, according to Mark Dever’s quote below, have been engaging in for several years, is a sketchy business practice. As the President and Executive Director of “Gospel Projects” (the umbrella non-profit group for T4G, Cross For the Nations, and The Front Porch), Conference-goers are paying your yearly salary of $250,000, while Mark Dever, a Vice President of “Gospel Projects” receives $25,000 per year for his 2 hours per week he spends working for the non-profit. (That works out to $240 per hour if Dever works 52 weeks in the year. Not bad money if you can get it!)

“And this is the only responsible way to work. It worked in ’06, ’08, ’10, ’12, ’14, ’16, ’18 and we had every reason to think it to work in 2020 unless the Lord allows such unusual providences, which again we trusted for.” -Mark Dever

Maybe Dever is right. Common sense tells me otherwise, but I would like to hear what an individual with a Masters in Business Administration has to say. Dever is a sharp guy, but I believe his specialty is theology, not business. Schmucker’s and Dever’s plans worked in normal times, but in the history of the world, times are not normal indefinitely. Pandemics happen. Natural disasters happen. War happens. Economic collapse happens.

What concerns me is that all of the money was spent prior to the conference. This means that there was not money to continue to support Schmucker’s T4G salary which is rather decent: $250,000 . How many people paying to this conference make that much money? Maybe that’s why some people call if T$G. So, now they are hoping to get the conferees to not ask for their refund back.

Did you know that one of the main reasons for the conference is to give out those 18 books?

“That’s one of the main reasons we have this conference, to get out those books! That’s the main thing, honestly, we do with your money.” -Mark Dever

But, sending out those books costs money and once again, they are reduced to begging for money.

Todd has a suggestion:

Really? Then I have a suggestion. Why don’t you stop holding conferences and set up a massive book club? You could work with publishers to feature one book per month at an unbeatable price.

I think Schmucker’s plan to mail the books that were going to be given away to all Conference attenders is a generous offer, but perhaps not a wise business decision. If they were to mail out 12,000 boxes of books at $20 per box, total cost, they would spend $240,000. That is nearly equal to Schmucker’s yearly salary!  “Gospel Projects” is desperately attempting to stave off bankruptcy by convincing people not to demand a refund and then they turn around and promise to send books to everyone.  They have stated the postage for this will be $12.50-$17.00, but all those books will need to be packaged and addressed. I can’t imagine what the cost of that will be. At any rate, it will really cut into their profit margin.  I have seen that on the T4G Twitter account they are really encouraging people to donate money to them to cover the shipping expense, and as you can see below, one winsome man encouraged everyone to donate $20.

T$G is functioning under the umbrella of an organization called Gospel Projects.

Todd discovered the following.

As I have already stated, T4G is an entity operating under an umbrella 501(c)3 non-profit organization called “Gospel Projects.” There are two other entities also operating under Gospel Projects – “Cross for the Nations” and “The Front Porch.” I believe Cross for the Nations is spearheaded by David Platt and John Piper. They have an annual conference held around New Years Day. They make emotional pleas to college students to live “Radical” lives by becoming missionaries.

The Front Porch is a group that appeals mainly to African Americans and is headed by Thabiti Anyabwile.

Below is a screenshot from the 2016 tax return of the Gospel Project. Highlighted in yellow are the three entities I mentioned above. It is interesting to read their stats.

This Gospel Project board is quite involved with one another and appear to approve all sorts of money to their BFFs. Remember, folks, they are using your money to pay for the conference and to give each other some $$$. Hence the moniker T$G.

Here is their Form 990 which shows the money earned by Dever and Schmucker.

Who serves on the board besides Schmucker, Anyabwile, and Dever?

Jamie Dunlop is an associate pastor at Capitol Hill Baptist Church and is the Chairman of the Gospel Project.

David Verhey is the Secretary. Verhey is a prominent attorney in the Washington, D.C. area and has been an elder at Capitol Hill Baptist Church and then Del Rey Baptist Church in Alexandria, VA.

Finally the Treasurer is Matthew Freeman. He’s an investment advisor and is a member of Mark Dever’s Capitol Hill Baptist Church.

This board appears tight and tied up and of course they approved giving $62,000 to Anyabwile’s church.

Next, I would like to draw your attention to a troubling $62,000 grant that Gospel Projects gave to Anacostia River Church. The pastor of Anacostia River Church is Thabiti Anyabwile! I have no inside information about this gift from Gospel Projects/T4G, nor am I a tax expert, but on the surface, this appears to be an obvious conflict of interest. How can you explain this large sum of money given to a church which is pastored by an officer of the Gospel Projects? How does a non-profit group who Matt Schmucker admits in a video above that “T4G isn’t a large non-profit or backed up by a lot of money, we essentially live off the event from year to year,” justify gifting $62,000 to Anacostia River Church?

Is there are conflict of interest on this board?

Seems so to me but what do I know…

How much money are they paying the conference speakers who are all friends off The Gospel Project.

Below is a copy of the 2018 IRS 990 tax return filed by Gospel Projects.  If you find it hard to view you can click on the link and read the document at the Scribd website. What I was unable to determine, and would really like to know is how much money the Celebrity Christian speakers who appear at the T4G conference receive. If anyone has that information I would love to hear from them.

Here is their tax return from 2018

If you have trouble viewing it, here is the link to it on SCRIB: 2018 IRS990 Tax Return by … by Todd Wilhelm on Scribd

In the meantime, the Wilberforce Weekend is not about the money like T$G.

Hey, T4G-think about it.

So I have questions.

  • In the video, they claim to have paid for airplane tickets, etc for the over 100 people they are bringing in. 100 people are getting their travel reimbursed?
  • How much are the paying the speakers? Some folks, off the record, say it could be as much as $10,000 for the big dudebros.
  • What do you think about Schmucker’s salary? Are you happy that your hard earned $$$ is going to pay his salary?
  • What about Dever who makes $25,000/year for 1 days of work per month?
  • Does Dever also get money for speaking at T4G? What about Schmucker and Anyabwile?
  • Do the board members get reimbursed for going to the conference? Do they get reimbursed when they speak? Or maybe they don’t speak?
  • How much did they pay for the giveaway books? Were the books written by their BFFs? Did they get them cut rate or did they pay retail to help out their friends? Exactly how do they select these books? Do any of these purchases coincide with getting enough books both to push the author onto some best sellers lists?
  •  In the last 7 conferences, why wasn’t any money put aside for a potential problem? Do they take in the money and spend, spend, spend until it’s all gone? That’s bad fiscal management.

Putting on conferences appears to be a way for pastors and their buddies to extract money from the masses while rewarding some members of the inner circles. But maybe I’m wrong. Perhaps all of us should make sure we know where our money is going. I wonder if some lowly pastor from a small congregation would like his money going to support the comfortable lifestyle of the Board of T4G?

Comments

Together For the Gospel (T4G) and Money: Are Donors Comfortable With How Their Hard Earned Money Is Used? — 117 Comments


  1. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    “This money is spent and we cannot get most of it back, which means, if everyone requests a full refund, we will go bankrupt and cannot host this conference in future years.”

    Must have been predestined by the Calvinist God.


  2. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    “Putting on conferences appears to be a way for pastors and their buddies to extract money from the masses while rewarding some members of the inner circles.”

    The Christian Industrial Complex is rife with profiteers masquerading as men of the cloth.


  3. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    I wonder how much the little pope Dever makes at his church and the “9 Marks” outfit?


  4. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    Max: Christian Industrial Complex is rife with profiteers masquerading as men of the cloth

    Romans 12, 1 Corinthians 12, Ephesians 4

    Gifts given by the Holy Spirit to the Church – Gifts. (Including teacher, pastor, apostle, prophet, administrator, wisdom, knowledge, service, discernment, healing, etc. – 18 in all.)

    Who pays for a gift? God doesn’t charge for what He gives, a gift to each believer, to then be given to the church. Free.

    The Church is not a business – not the one run by the Holy Spirit, under the Lordship of Jesus.


  5. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    The most notable figure on the Form 990, row 22, is the $2,209,552 accumulated surplus!

    With or without the 2020 conference, they’ve got quite a $ stash to draw upon.


  6. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    Ava Aaronson: The Church is not a business – not the one run by the Holy Spirit, under the Lordship of Jesus.

    Much of what we consider as church in America is not the Church at all.


  7. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    Given that row 9 is their annual “income”, they’ve essentially got a full years surplus. No need for special $ appeals.


  8. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    Petros:
    Given that row 9 is their annual “income”, they’ve essentially got a full years surplus.No need for special $ appeals.

    No matter how much $$$$$$$ they have stashed away, It Will Never Be Enough.
    No matter how much you have, you’ll always want MORE! MORE! MORE!
    (Cue Daffy Duck spazzing out.)


  9. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    Petros,

    “the $2,209,552 accumulated surplus!”
    ++++++++++++++

    they said they would go bankrupt if they had to refund people’s money…. was that a lie?


  10. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    Max,

    While COVID-19 is a complete disaster ( but from a historical perspective, not a surprise), from a testing of the “church” perspective, it is becoming increasingly clear the true nature of many of these self described “leaders” is becoming increasingly clear..


  11. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    Dever gets paid $25K annually for 1 day of work a month (104 hours a year) not 2 days as you said in your section, ” So I have questions”.
    This may be a low blow, but look up definition of “schmuck” as in Schmucker. It’s a Yiddish word for jerk.


  12. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    Jeffrey Chalmers,

    The more I think about this, the madder I get…. There is, obviously, given the large amount of unemployed due to this pandemic, hard working genuine followers of Christ’s teachings that are struggling to fed themselves and their families…… and these guys are worried about there “precious” little conference that is focused on themselves…
    This says it all to me…


  13. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    Jeffrey Chalmers:
    I wonder how much the little pope Dever makes at his church and the “9 Marks” outfit?

    I wonder the same – how many salaries or part salaries does he actually receive any given year?

    Does he not hold a position at SBTS also?

    Given that he presumably doesn’t pay housing etc. costs, I would imagine that his income is high and his essential expenditure low.

    What I find particularly distasteful about this whole T4G cancellation episode is the extent of emotional blackmail applied by Dever, Schmucker and the T4G elite to ensure that would-be attendees felt duty bound to ‘invest’ their conference fees.

    From the information we now have it would seem that Dever, Schmucker and others were comfortable telling half truths or even untruths to protect themselves and the T4G organisation, with little concern for the protection of the lowly attendees.

    Some pastors and church workers may have stretched their budgets to attend, and some may be facing privation and pressure due to Covid circumstances, but no concern for them was expressed by Dever and Schmucker. Instead Dever and Schmucker took a leaf out of the prosperity preachers’ handbook and told them that their fees had been ‘invested’.

    I actually thought that Schmucker looked very uncomfortable in that video. Maybe his conscience was troubling him.


  14. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    Dever gets $25,000 for 1 day of work/month, not 2 days work.


  15. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    Godith: Dever gets $25,000 for 1 day of work/month, not 2 days work.

    The highest paid “preacher” in America! (at least for 1 day/month)

    Heck, all the YRR pastors in my area only “work” about that much! They show up for a couple hours per week to preach a sermon borrowed from Piper or Dever, then hang out at local coffee shops the rest of the time. (they must be having a fit not being able to get their daily espresso due to COVID)


  16. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    Max,

    Crazy idea, maybe that’s what God wants…for the conference to dry up and go away. They shouldn’t fight this if their Calvinist God has ordained it. Are they rebelling against God? 😉 Is their God not big enough and strong enough?


  17. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    elastigirl: they would go bankrupt if they had to refund people’s money…. was that a lie?

    Mistruth and half-truth are just forms of lies. Much has been said about the stealth and deception within the New Calvinist movement. You really can’t trust this bunch.


  18. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    The whole T4G thing is actually quite disgusting. Thanks to Todd Wilhelm and Dee for trying to sound a wake up call.


  19. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    Magistos: maybe that’s what God wants…for the conference to dry up and go away. They shouldn’t fight this if their Calvinist God has ordained it

    “If this teaching or movement is merely human it will collapse of its own accord” (Acts 5:39)


  20. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    Godith: The whole T4G thing is actually quite disgusting.

    It’s amazing isn’t it … that thousands of American “pastors” have put their trust in T4G and it’s band of elite?!! Pastors!! Such is the spell cast on New Calvinism. It’s a dirty shame that so many of our youth have fallen victim to this movement … with their mind, message, and ministry ensnared by a lie.


  21. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    elastigirl:
    Petros,

    “the $2,209,552 accumulated surplus!”
    ++++++++++++++

    they said they would go bankrupt if they had to refund people’s money….was that a lie?

    Was it a lie? Well on current evidence that seems likely and on current evidence these ‘elders’ (Dever, Schmucker & Co) are not ‘above reproach’ (1Timothy 3:2) therefore by the Biblical measure that T4G/9 Marks love to quote, their qualification as elders is in doubt.

    If they were not lying, all they need to do to prove their integrity is open the T4G financial books and be transparent with the figures. Let’s see if they do that. I would be delighted if they prove that they were telling the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.


  22. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    I worked for a mega that hosted a missions conference every yr:

    YES they paid for all travel expenses of missionaries/speakers that were brought in
    YES any special speakers were paid a fee. This was true of any special speaker or music performer during the year. The fees were typically between $4k-$7k
    YES the church paid for all printing of promotional materials

    I have no problem beleiving that T4G absolutely spent all of the registration funds. But here’s the rub…when tickets were sold to ‘events’, they were considered ‘donations’ and therefore could not be reimbursed to the donor.


  23. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    Max,

    That is a quote from Gamaliel, but it isn’t Scriptural truth. For example, the Mormon church is still going strong. However, I’m glad the T4G conference is not taking place.


  24. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    Off topic, but I have put an update on my wife’s kidney transplant in the prayer request section.


  25. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    Godith,

    For myself, I was indulging in a bit of mockery like Elijah, when he had a contest against the priests of Baal to light an altar on fire.

    Call louder, maybe your God is asleep, or in the bathroom.


  26. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    Godith:
    Dever gets $25,000 for 1 day of work/month, not 2 days work.

    Whoops. Thank you.


  28. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    Max: elastigirl: they would go bankrupt if they had to refund people’s money…. was that a lie?
    Mistruth and half-truth are just forms of lies. Much has been said about the stealth and deception within the New Calvinist movement. You really can’t trust this bunch.

    It is just shocking but I maybe I shouldn’t be surprised with this deception. Here the group has almost a years worth of operating expenses in reserve and they claim that if too many people ask for refunds they could go bankrupt.

    Have people also noticed what Todd pointed out the group’s high fee if you want to join attend their online version. It definitely is Together for the Go$pel.


  29. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    Ken P.,

    Glad to hear she is recovering well so far, and safe travels!


  30. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    Steve240: It definitely is Together for the Go$pel.

    It definitely is “Together for New Calvinism” at whatever the cost.


  31. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    List of T4G exhibitors:
    https://t4g.org/t4g20-exhibitors-list/
    Some are not at all surprising, but others are very surprising, such as US Navy Chaplains


  32. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    Sjon,

    “If they were not lying, all they need to do to prove their integrity is open the T4G financial books and be transparent with the figures.”
    +++++++++++++

    i expect they’ll get all admonishy and concoct something ‘biblical’ for why doing such a thing would be an outrage to the glory of God.


  33. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    Ken F (aka Tweed): A fun video to watch:
    “What to Expect at T4G”
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rNIbvLRGMrI&feature=emb_rel_end

    Looks like “Al’s Little Playgroup” has greatly expanded! That’s what Mohler’s wife called his relationship with Dever, Duncan, and Mahaney (the four founders of T4G, the “Fab Four”). The term “Little Playgroup” still creeps me out!

    Now that Mahaney has fallen out of favor, looks like Piper, Platt, and DeYoung have joined the little playgroup. Creepier still!

    I expect to find lots of T4G’s “Zero Dollar Books” at garage sales when New Calvinism finally blows over. A zero dollar book is one whose market has been exhausted or the New Calvinist big-boys would not be giving them away.

    These leaders will be judged for taking advantage of the spiritual immaturity and theological naivety of their followers. In the meantime, the big-boys are laughing all the way to the bank fleecing their flock.


  34. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    Ken F (aka Tweed),

    “A fun video to watch:
    “What to Expect at T4G””
    +++++++++++++

    so, all these ‘Zero Dollar Books’… what kind of symbiotic thing is going on here?

    i’d also like to see the true cost of ‘investment’ in these books. I have a feeling there’s a certain amount of ‘zero dollars’ involved, in some kind of promotional deal.


  35. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    Seriously though, How long do these guys (T4G) think they can continue on with business as usual?


  36. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    Anna,

    “But here’s the rub…when tickets were sold to ‘events’, they were considered ‘donations’ and therefore could not be reimbursed to the donor.”
    ++++++++++++

    donations, not purchases.

    i guess this is 501(c)(3) talk. playing on people’s not-altruististic-enough-guilt. how convenient.

    how slimy.

    i continually find it so amazing that christian culture regularly baptizes ‘slimy’, deceptive, manipulative into something that ‘glorifies god.’


  37. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    Except it is not really zero dollar, is it, if they are attaching a cost to the collection ($230), right? They are “pre-paid”. It’s catchy to SAY zero dollar, but either there IS a cost, or the funds have gone elsewhere. Which is it?

    Oh, this makes me just get a grinchy smile thinking about accounting games being played.


  38. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    elastigirl: ‘Zero Dollar Books’

    I suspect that most, if not all, of the book giveaways have outlived their market. One of the “Zero Dollar Books” shown in the T4G promotional video, “No Quick Fix”, can be purchased for less than $5 at thrift book outlets.


  39. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    Ken F (aka Tweed),

    “A fun video to watch:
    “What to Expect at T4G”
    +++++++++++++++

    i was struck by all the talk of “the church….love for the church….. love for the gospel….”

    Jesus Christ, not mentioned once. not even alluded to.

    a religion that is a caricature of a hybrid of select men who appear in the bible and history. jesus christ is a technical mechanism, like a machine part or a math operator.

    (i’m making it sound like i know lots about math…)


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    elastigirl: i continually find it so amazing that christian culture regularly baptizes ‘slimy’, deceptive, manipulative into something that ‘glorifies god.’

    “‘Slimy’, deceptive, manipulative” never glorifies God … only the slimy are glorified … God ain’t got nothin’ to do with it.


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    Magistos,

    “…accounting games being played.”
    ++++++++++++

    all for the glory of God

    what shenanigans-in-secret are being rationalized away…

    come clean T4G and prove otherwise


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    Muff Potter: How long do these guys (T4G) think they can continue on with business as usual?

    As long as suckers continue to send them money.


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    Muff Potter: Seriously though, How long do these guys (T4G) think they can continue on with business as usual?

    It might be that because business as usual in the wider churches may not be able to resume — it is conceivable (if viral mutation is rapid and seroconversion does not confer immunity to mutated strains) that large groups will be unsafe into indefinite future — that it is considered essential that T4G continue as a means of meme-propagation.


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    Samuel Conner: viral mutation is rapid

    You lost me here. Are you talking about T4G or C19?


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    Ken F (aka Tweed): You lost me here. Are you talking about T4G or C19?

    Assuming that this is a rhetorical question, it’s a really good point, that I had not noticed. Dogma does confer a kind of “mental immunity” to alternative ideas, and it’s not hard to imagine that one of the core functions of T4G is to keep as many people as possible “on the same page” in terms of the neocal vision of “what is true” and “what church should be”. There being, by design, no hierarchy (above the local congregation) in these independent reformed-ish baptist-ish groups, how is one to maintain uniformity of dogma and practice?

    The local groups aren’t meeting face to face for an unknown duration, and if the leaders of the local groups cannot preserve their sense of “movement” and their commitment to their distinctives, does the whole thing collapse?


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    Godith: This may be a low blow, but look up definition of “schmuck” as in Schmucker. It’s a Yiddish word for jerk.

    The closest translation into English would be “Dickhead”.
    “Shmo” is the diminutive form, and “Putz” the superlative form.
    (They say Yiddish has more words for “jerk” than any other language, including extremely specific ones.)


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    Check out these videos tweeted by Mark Dever yesterday and today:

    https://twitter.com/markdever/status/1247301228868009989?s=12

    https://twitter.com/markdever/status/1247307535440400384?s=12

    Memorable quote:
    ‘If you keep your money partnered with T4G that his year, we will send you the books…’

    Erm, what is T4G really about according to these videos?


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    *Memorable quote:

    ‘If you keep your money partnered with T4G this year, we will send you the books…’


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    Ken F (aka Tweed),

    Samuel Conner,

    There is a lengthy section in NT Wright’s massive “Paul and the faithfulness of God” (which I did not complete; got mentally kind of fogged/lost partway into the 2nd volume, and then distracted and never returned to complete it) in which NTW discusses the issue of “boundary markers” that separated Old Israel from the surrounding Gentiles.

    By the 2nd Temple Period, these were basically “Sabbath”, “circumcision” and “food laws” (full observance of Torah was too difficult for most people, though the Pharisees tried their best) — issues that crop up again and again in Paul’s letters — and the problem for Paul of determining what could replace the function of these identifying marks in the congregations of mixed Jew and Gentile Jesus-followers that he was founding.

    Prior to Paul, there had not been much abstract theological reflection among the followers of YHWH; the emphasis was on keeping the commands of the Covenant. What you did was more important than the details of your abstract theology. Paul did not impose the Old Israel boundary markers on the churches he founded (the Jewish churches, OTOH, continued the observances as before). Wright thinks that Paul’s innovation of “Christian theology” functioned as a replacement, in the churches, for the boundary-marking function that Torah-observance served in the Old Israel of his day. Old Israel was demarcated from the Gentiles by its Torah-observance; New Israel (the Church) was to be demarcated from unbelieving Gentiles and Jews by what it believed to be true and confessed of God and of Jesus (in capsule, that “Jesus is Lord” and that “God had raised Jesus from the dead”).

    I have done a poor job of setting out Wright’s argument, which I found persuasive.

    This suggests a possible reason for T4G organizers to value the continuance of the enterprise, entirely aside from the pecuniary advantages to them — it might be an important instrument for the preservation of their movement by reinforcing, protecting and propagating the movement’s distinctive memes.


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    Samuel Conner: Assuming that this is a rhetorical question, it’s a really good point, that I had not noticed.

    It was basically a snarky question, with the snark pointed at T4G (not you). They basically function like a virus. They have no life in themselves, just genetic material that they use to infect healthy bodies with the goal of reproducing to infect even more healthy bodies. They cannot survive without healthy hosts.


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    Ken F (aka Tweed): They basically function like a virus. They have no life in themselves, just genetic material that they use to infect healthy bodies with the goal of reproducing to infect even more healthy bodies. They cannot survive without healthy hosts.

    Another good point that I had not noticed!

    Keep ’em coming!


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    Samuel Conner: The local groups aren’t meeting face to face for an unknown duration, and if the leaders of the local groups cannot preserve their sense of “movement” and their commitment to their distinctives, does the whole thing collapse?

    Samuel Conner: T4G … might be an important instrument for the preservation of their movement by reinforcing, protecting and propagating the movement’s distinctive memes.

    Ken F (aka Tweed),

    This might be a possible resolution of the apparent hypocrisy that you have previously noted in Dever’s attitude toward his duties to the congregation of CHBC, which he pastors, and his seeming greater solicitude toward the “followership” of the T4G attendees.

    Perhaps, from a “movement perspective”, the T4G attendees are simply much more valuable than the laity of CHBC; T4G participants will carry the memes into the future. CHBC is merely a single meme host, and its fate is not consequential to the future of the memes.


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    Sjon: Memorable quote:
    ‘If you keep your money partnered with T4G that his year, we will send you the books…’

    … but if you don’t keep your money partnered with T4G, we won’t send you the free “Zero Dollar Books” written by New Calvinist elite that no one wants to buy any longer. We just offered them as a gimmick to allure you to the conference, knowing that you don’t have enough sense to discern our schemes.


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    Max,

    That quote should read:
    ‘If you keep your money partnered with T4G this year, we will send you the books…’


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    The reach of this conference is enormous. Most of the attendees are pastors. All of those books going out to pastors which then influence churches.

    And look at the list of Seminaries. The SBC educates 1/4 of every seminary student in this country. Thrown in the non-SBC schools shown, and they are having a huge impact. I can’t think of s as anything comparable.

    So if these guys get caught up in error, it infects the church more than denominational actions. Think of the veneration of Mahaney even after it was clear something bad went on at his churches, and the resultant delay in addressing abuse, think of the church discipline overreach, think of the nonsense involving “social justice” and its associated matters, critical race theory and Intersectionality. All of this gets infected into the church at large.

    “Big Eva” is right.


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    Oracle at Delphi: So if these guys get caught up in error,

    I think the “if” condition was met many years ago.


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    Samuel Conner,

    Another thing about viruses is they cannot be too deadly if they want to survive. If their hosts get too sick they won’t be able to spread their genes because their hoats won’t be able to travel far and wide. So they need their hosts to not get too sick. Gives a whole new spin on something going viral.


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    elastigirl:
    Magistos,

    “…accounting games being played.”
    ++++++++++++

    all for the glory of God

    what shenanigans-in-secret are being rationalized away…

    come clean T4G and prove otherwise

    Very well said!


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    Samuel Conner: CHBC is merely a single meme host, and its fate is not consequential to the future of the memes.

    Do you suppose he pastors a church primarily because he would not have a wider platform if he was not an actual pastor?


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    Oracle at Delphi: The SBC educates 1/4 of every seminary student in this country.

    Terrifying thought. Do you have a source or context? What percentage of these graduates go into church ministry? What age are they upon graduation? How many years do they typically serve in the church?


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    Headless Unicorn Guy: (They say Yiddish has more words for “jerk” than any other language, including extremely specific ones.)

    Goy schlemiels (like Potter) who grew up in an area with a significant Jewish presence can vouch for this.


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    Anna,

    I was thinking back to planning my wedding, and I think that 90% of the checks (to vendors, etc.) were written a month or so before the actual event. So yes, I believe that all the funds have been “invested.”

    However, there was very little concern shown for anybody else in this video. They could have said, “These funds are being used to support small businesses like caterers and videographers and event planners who right now are struggling financially because of the lock-down. Not asking refunds of us means we won’t have to ask refunds of them, which will go far in reflecting God’s generosity to these folks, yada yada yada.”

    I don’t know if any of the guest speakers are also on the board or whatever of T4G, but it would have been a meaningful gesture if they had forgone their speaker’s fee or donated it to relief efforts. Just something to think about, gentlemen, if any of you happen to be reading.


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    Max: I expect to find lots of T4G’s “Zero Dollar Books” at garage sales when New Calvinism finally blows over. A zero dollar book is one whose market has been exhausted or the New Calvinist big-boys would not be giving them away.

    I saw something similar with Josh Harris’s “I Kissed Dating Goodbye Book” where online booksellers were selling his book for $1.00 plus minimal postage and handling. This was back in 2008.


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    Oracle at Delphi: The reach of this conference is enormous. Most of the attendees are pastors. All of those books going out to pastors which then influence churches … SBC educates 1/4 of every seminary student in this country … these guys get caught up in error, it infects the church …

    Conferences hosted by T4G, TGC, 9Marks, etc. have a singular objective: INDOCTRINATE! The roots of New Calvinism originated with the Passion Conference … held since 1997, tens of thousands of college students have been indoctrinated with reformed theology. The new reformation spread like wildfire as social media platforms came online. New Calvinist leaders know that if they can change the belief and practice of young folks, they can accomplish their agenda to Calvinize the American church … that’s why they target Generations X, Y, and Z. And the pew ain’t got a clue!


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    Max: New Calvinist leaders know that if they can change the belief and practice of young folks, they can accomplish their agenda to Calvinize the American church … that’s why they target Generations X, Y, and Z. And the pew ain’t got a clue!

    But it is those poor Calvinists who are under attack once again:
    https://www.ligonier.org/blog/attack-calvinism-19th-century-america/
    (posted a few days ago)


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    Ken F (aka Tweed): But it is those poor Calvinists who are under attack once again:
    https://www.ligonier.org/blog/attack-calvinism-19th-century-america/

    During the last 500 years, 90+% of Christians worldwide have rejected the tenets of reformed theology. The new reformers need to stop attacking other expressions of faith! I would like to say that their intrusion into American churches is unwelcome, but too many churches are falling for the stealth and deception of YRR church leaders. In SBC life, the average church member won’t fuss with you about theology … but, if you take away their monthly fellowship dinner, you will have a war on your hands!


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    Max: During the last 500 years, 90+% of Christians worldwide have rejected the tenets of reformed theology.

    Their use of the word “attack” on that article is totally misplaced. To walk away from a system is not an attack on it. Unless they can show people were assaulting Calvinists and their churches they should tone down their rhetoric.


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    Ken F (aka Tweed),

    So, no time to prepare the flock for pandemic, but time to write a book about it? I love the all-purpose quote: “Piper offers six biblical answers to the question, What is God doing through the coronavirus? — reminding us that God is at work in this moment in history.”

    Or maybe he had another book in the hopper, and he did a global word search and replace. What was he writing about two weeks ago? Hurricanes? Working wives? It would have to start with a consonant…


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    Muslin, fka Dee Holmes: Why? Nobody asked for this.

    The folks who claim Christianity is eternally changeless also happen to be the most faddish people on the planet.


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    Ken F (aka Tweed): Speaking of books:
    https://www.desiringgod.org/books/coronavirus-and-christ

    Piper is a strange one. Sometimes, he almost sounds like a Gospel preacher. In the promotional video for his book, he drops the name of Jesus more times than any sermon I’ve heard him preach. He’s usually all about “God”, with occasional mention of Jesus, but hardly a word about the Holy Spirit. It’s a foreign gospel, this New Calvinism.


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    Muslin, fka Dee Holmes: Why? Nobody asked for this.

    Make money off of the tragedy. Piper thinks the world can’t get along and God can’t speak without Piper’s help.

    It’s disgusting to me how fast Piper capitalized on the pandemic.


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    Bridget: Make money off of the tragedy. Piper thinks the world can’t get along and God can’t speak without Piper’s help.

    The Pious Piper is Really Really IMPORTANT, isn’t he?
    Whatever would God do without him?


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    Bridget: It’s disgusting to me how fast Piper capitalized on the pandemic.

    The book was ready just in time for the T4G conference … the young reformers would have scrambled to get a copy – the Piperites depend on a word from the Master in times like these (not Jesus) … his 100-page final word on COVID would have sold like hotcakes … it probably isn’t included in the “Zero Dollar Books” … I’m going to bed – Piper creeps me out.


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    I find this amazing though I really should not be surprized. Two of my professional conventions were cancelled due to COVID-19 and full refunds were given to all registrations. Of course, these aren’t religious organizations, and the promoters are not suffering servants for Jesus. Sigh.


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    Muslin, fka Dee Holmes,

    As my two-year-old says when she can’t really explain an answer, “Jus’ beecuz.”


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    Max: Piper is a strange one.

    I think his mama hit Piper over the head with a rolling pin at least one time too many.

    And these arrogant heretics with T4G ….. uhg. If they hold their little conference, I hope Gov. Beshear sends Kentucky State Troopers to arrest them for public endangerment, at least!

    A record shattering number of people in the US have filed for unemployment benefits, and who knows how many more have tried, but just can’t get through because the systems are overloaded; a number of small businesses will probably go under before COVID-19 is under control. ……….

    My cousin and his wife make their living through their two small businesses with one employee per business – business is way down for them…… way down. My son-in-law runs his own small tech business with 5 employees – they are overloaded with work to do for schools, doctors, and city emergency services because of the changes corona virus is triggering, but no money coming in from the clients, yet. ……… But, bills are still due ……. Who knows how many people are in similar situations.

    If every one of these T4G gospelly boyz get robbed blind today of everything but the clothes on their backs, not a single one of them will get any sympathy from me!


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    GMFS!

    Hope your finger is healing well, Dee!

    ION: In the garden at dusk yesterday, I saw a hedgehog on the lawn. I didn’t get too close, because I didn’t want to frighten it, but it went back under the hedge anyway (fair enough; it is a hedgehog after all). Hedgehogs a) eat slugs and other garden pests, and b) are adorable, so having a resident hedgehog is good news all round.

    IHTIH


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    Nick Bulbeck: ION: In the garden at dusk yesterday, I saw a hedgehog on the lawn. I didn’t get too close, because I didn’t want to frighten it, but it went back under the hedge anyway (fair enough; it is a hedgehog after all). Hedgehogs a) eat slugs and other garden pests, and b) are adorable, so having a resident hedgehog is good news all round.

    Always appreciate your earthy interludes and pithy commentary, Nick!

    P.S. As a fellow resident of ‘North Britain’ (no political statement intended!), I occasionally pick up your local references, though as I am not particularly a cricket fan, I still find cricket references almost as indecipherable as friends from across the pond.


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    Friend: Piper offers six biblical answers to the question, What is God doing through the coronavirus? — reminding us that God is at work in this moment in history.”

    Piper captivates until he doesn’t. Many of the more fortunate never notice his attractions in the first place.

    Andrew Perriman’s ideas are an acquired taste, but after one has got past the initial unfamiliarity (and perhaps even alarm), one may find his perspective helpful. I suspect that his approach has a brighter future than Piper’s.

    To borrow a phrase from NT Wright, it may be that we are well into the fifth movement of an unfinished composition for which we have the score only for the first four movements. We’re compelled to improvise in order to carry on the performance in a way that we hope is aligned with the Composer’s intentions.

    https://www.postost.net/2020/04/where-god-history-pandemic


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    Bridget: Make money off of the tragedy. Piper thinks the world can’t get along and God can’t speak without Piper’s help.

    Some money may be made off this book, but as it is also offered as a free download, I think it more likely that the purpose is “protection, reinforcement and propagation” of the memes Piper favors. It’s basically the same purpose that one can plausibly infer is the underlying purpose of T4G and the attempts to keep it going under the new circumstances.

    It’s probably important for the movement to be able to portray to its members that “we have the answers to the present crisis; don’t allow doubt to creep into your commitment to our movement and its memes.”

    I giggled at the heading of chapter 8; but then I would, being, more or less, basically Preterist in my outlook. Poor JP, looking at history through the wrong end of the telescope.


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    topic-adjacent in the sense that T4G is about “meme propagation”, but “untrue memes can kill you”

    https://nypost.com/2020/04/07/pastor-who-criticized-coronavirus-mass-hysteria-dies-from-illness/

    LS seems to have not been in the T4G mold (for one thing, he had skills beyond pulpit preaching; perhaps one could regard him to be a kind of modern-day “tent-maker”). Alas, it appears he got his interpretation of the news regarding the dangers of the epidemic from sources that did not take it seriously enough.

    He may have contracted the virus while in New Orleans for Mardi Gras.


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    Mr. Jesperson: And the insanity continues …

    You can’t quarantine fools, nor ask stupidity to stay home.


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    Nancy2(aka Kevlar): A record shattering number of people in the US have filed for unemployment benefits

    Filings are up 5000% in my state.


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    Samuel Conner: He may have contracted the virus while in New Orleans for Mardi Gras.

    Mardi Gras in New Orleans is today’s equivalent of the Liberty Bonds Parade in Philadelphia at the start of the 1918 flu pandemic. Superspread Event.


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    Nancy2(aka Kevlar): If they hold their little conference, I hope Gov. Beshear sends Kentucky State Troopers to arrest them for public endangerment, at least!

    I’m with ya’ on that one.
    And I would applaud Beshear.
    He should close down the venue that those idiots are gonna’ use, and then go on local TV and explain to the populace why endangering the public health and safety IS NOT COVERED under our American tradition of religious freedom.


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    Headless Unicorn Guy,

    The photo of the “lead pastor” of that group has IMO a distinct Marc Driscoll air.

    One wonders how many bodies will pile up behind that bus.


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    Perhaps a way that T4G could be more relevant to the embodied spirits that compose the congregations led by its attendees would be to air old episodes of “The Victory Garden”.

    Commercial growers facing problems:

    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/rural/2020/04/coronavirus-growers-fear-millions-of-fruit-will-rot-on-trees.html

    seriously, people, consider digging gardens if you have sunny ground and time.


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    Samuel Conner: Commercial growers facing problems:

    We need to keep the commercial growers afloat, too, as well as the people who harvest produce.

    One local company, which normally supplies produce to restaurants, is now letting consumers order and pay for boxes of fruit and veg online, and choose a pickup time and place. Company employees place the boxes in the customer’s vehicle.

    Re: gardening, some seed companies can’t keep up with the new demand. Not everyone knows how to grow produce. I have a yard, but the soil by the house was treated with a now-banned chemical in the 1980s. All we can do is a little organic container gardening, or raised-bed gardening in a small sunny patch far from the house.


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    Samuel Conner,

    In case it wasn’t clear, I agree with you… It’s unfathomable how things have changed.


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    Friend: One local company, which normally supplies produce to restaurants, is now letting consumers order and pay for boxes of fruit and veg online, and choose a pickup time and place. Company employees place the boxes in the customer’s vehicle

    We belong to a ‘CSA’ (Community Supported Agriculture) that directly markets (and delivers) a weekly fresh fruit and vegetable share from the farm to the consumer, no middlemen. We get to personalize our choices every week, and they link with other local farms to supply a larger variety of products.
    So we just asked to increase our share size this summer, considering will have more ‘kids’ home who were not originally planning to be!


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    Muslin, fka Dee Holmes: Why? Nobody asked for this.

    Well, has anybody ever actually needed or any of his books, articles, sermons, podcasts, tweets, or hand gestures? I supoose that question is more rhetorical than anything.

    His bubble continues to provide a demand signal (both TGC and Challies highlighted Piper’s new book on their sites today). I guess they cannot think without being told what to think.


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    readingalong: So we just asked to increase our share size this summer, considering will have more ‘kids’ home who were not originally planning to be!

    Several “kids” in their mid/late 20s in my neighborhood have moved back in with Mom & Dad due to layoffs and/or a desire for mutual help. I’ve seen them outside on their ancient skateboards and rickety bicycles. Everyone is cheerful and strong. No choice, eh?

    Do you have any suggestions for helping young adults through this, whether face to face or by text, social media, etc.?


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    Max,

    One wonders if the present calamity will inspire modern day proverbs.

    “Listen, my son, to your mother’s instruction, and to your father’s correction. Wisdom is hard to find, and is learned only at great cost; if you find it, it will save you. But folly is more contagious than a respiratory virus, and more deadly.”


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    Friend,

    And I agree with your counsel re: supporting local ag. I’ve been stressing about “food supply chains” for several weeks, and feel powerless to make much difference. I’m not a skilled DIY grower; still learning — mostly from my own mistakes.

    Those who ARE skilled gardeners, consider starting loads of useful plants and sharing with neighbors. Share your gardening wisdom too. Too many of us do not know how to grow healthy plants, how to improve soil, etc, etc.


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    Friend: Do you have any suggestions for helping young adults through this, whether face to face or by text, social media, etc.?

    I wish I did… just sent our son in CO an Easter candy order through on-line shopping. He’s bogged down trying to do online college classes and has been quarantined for 2 wks because his roommate got sick (1 more day and he’s clear, yay – at least until the next exposure). We feel bad for his girlfriend, who is graduating with lots of student loans and now little prospect for a decent job to start paying them off.
    Am having my other 2 kids who are at home (20 and 16) each cook a dinner weekly, to help out but also expand their cooking skills! (and the 20 yo really needs that education) Trying to still get them outdoors for hikes and otherwise make them feel useful.


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    Max: In the promotional video for his book, he drops the name of Jesus more times than any sermon I’ve heard him preach.

    The oddest part of that video is his statement that the book is for the world, as if even 1% of the world even knows who he is. Equally strange is how he makes it sound like salvation is available for everyone even though he is a 7-point Calvinist. It would be much more honest for him to say that god only chose some for salvation and everyone else will burn forever.


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    Ken F (aka Tweed): Equally strange is how he makes it sound like salvation is available for everyone even though he is a 7-point Calvinist.

    Maybe Piper got saved during this pandemic!!


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    Samuel Conner: One wonders if the present calamity will inspire modern day proverbs.

    “You can’t quarantine fools, nor ask stupidity to stay home.”
    (Max 1:1, my first proverb)


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    Nick Bulbeck,

    Here in the US we have the not-so-cute groundhogs, aka woodchucks. They are not cute. They are mean and ugly and eat everything beautiful. My English bluebells have been completely destroyed. And groundhogs are nigh to impossible to catch.


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    Max,

    🙂


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    From my daily reading: Zeph. 11:4 “This is what the Lord my God says: ‘Shepherd the flock marked for slaughter. Their buyers slaughter them and go unpunished. Those who sell them say, “Praise the Lord, I am rich!” Their own shepherds do not spare them. For I will no longer have pity on the people of the land,’ declares the Lord. ‘I will give everyone into the hands of their neighbors and their king. They will devastate the land, and I will not rescue anyone from their hands.’
    So I shepherded the flock marked for slaughter, particularly the oppressed of the flock. Then I took two staffs and called one Favor and the other Union, and I shepherded the flock. In one month I got rid of the three shepherds.
    The flock detested me, and I grew weary of them and said, ‘I will not be your shepherd. Let the dying die, and the perishing perish. Let those who are left eat one another’s flesh.’
    Then I took my staff called Favor and broke it, revoking the covenant I had made with all the nations. It was revoked on that day, and so the oppressed of the flock who were watching me knew it was the word of the Lord.
    I told them, ‘If you think it best, give me my pay; but if not, keep it.’ So they paid me thirty pieces of silver.
    And the Lord said to me, ‘Throw it to the potter’—the handsome price at which they valued me! So I took the thirty pieces of silver and threw them to the potter at the house of the Lord.
    Then I broke my second staff called Union, breaking the family bond between Judah and Israel.
    Then the Lord said to me, ‘Take again the equipment of a foolish shepherd. For I am going to raise up a shepherd over the land who will not care for the lost, or seek the young, or heal the injured, or feed the healthy, but will eat the meat of the choice sheep, tearing off their hooves.
    Woe to the worthless shepherd, who deserts the flock!
    May the sword strike his arm and his right eye!
    May his arm be completely withered, his right eye totally blinded!”


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    readingalong: Trying to still get them outdoors for hikes and otherwise make them feel useful.

    Young adults need to feel useful when it’s hard to be useful in the expected ways. They also need to redefine productivity, and forgive themselves, and get some rest. This is a good time to teach some adult skills without overwhelming anybody. If they are due a tax refund, some can learn how to fill out tax forms. We are nibbling at the edges: Offspring holds the ladder and happens to learn how to do whatever the person on the ladder is doing.

    I found this video to be both fun and moving: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_XM5hc5eJyI&list=RD_XM5hc5eJyI&start_radio=1


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    Mr. Jesperson,

    Yo, dude. How does this apply?


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    Godith: groundhogs, aka woodchucks. They are not cute. They are mean and ugly and eat everything beautiful … nigh to impossible to catch

    Stay-at-home pandemics are a great time to try BBQ groundhog. Of course you have to snare them first. Fire that grill up! I just fried up a batch of crappie fillets I caught at an area lake … fishing is the original form of social distancing.


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    “In the video, they claim to have paid for airplane tickets, etc for the over 100 people they are bringing in. 100 people are getting their travel reimbursed?”

    So much of what goes under the guise of ministry / missions / outreach appears to have marks of personal recreational travel for certains (and often for their family etc.). Brings to mind the number of politicos who go on fact-finding junkets that generally resemble a vacation package from a travel agent as a top priority.

    On the airplane tickets part, there appear to be numerous airlines that are offering rescheduling, postponements, and straight-up refunds related to the reason that the event was canceled. Went though it myself, and had two trips adjusted in the last month.


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    Friend: Young adults need to feel useful when it’s hard to be useful in the expected ways. They also need to redefine productivity, and forgive themselves, and get some rest.

    Watching my husband’s and my parents enter into retirement within the last few years, and how they’ve individually and as couples navigated those waters, I’d say this applies to more seasoned adults, too 🙂


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    Samuel Conner,

    This, and also re how young people can be useful (and not just young people)…

    Oddly enough, I’ve found myself needing a word that Dubya (emdy remember him?) was laughed at for inventing. Because I think humanity has badly misunderestimated the threat from covid-19.

    There’s a growing, and increasingly urgent, need to support the produce-growing industry, and in fact the farming industry in general. As farmers can no longer call on their normal distribution networks, already we’re seeing milk being poured down the drain because it can’t be transported. If we don’t address this, but remain focused on lockdown, then we’ll face food shortages later in the year. If indeed these shortages are global, that’s going to hit the global poor very hard. That means widespread hunger, some of which will end in starvation.

    It won’t, of course, be covid-19 that is directly responsible for these deaths. It will be our response to covid-19. The only thing we’re doing at the moment is locking down, shutting, stopping, banning, hiding and isolating. A bit like a human going into allergic shock as their immune response increases exponentially until it takes over all the body’s chemistry (and the person dies).

    The slogan “Stay at home, save lives”, bothers me a great deal because of the false antithesis that it implies. It’s not that I don’t think covid-19 can kill people. It’s that there have always been, and always will be, other things than covid-19 that can kill us. They haven’t gone away. The pandemic will be here for months at least. If it turns out to be impractical to make a vaccine – for instance, if our immune response to vaccines means we only get a year’s immunity at best – then covid-19 will be with us for generations. Save lives, by all means: that, AND, plan for the lives we’ll need to save next year.


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    Nick Bulbeck: As farmers can no longer call on their normal distribution networks, already we’re seeing milk being poured down the drain because it can’t be transported. If we don’t address this, but remain focused on lockdown, then we’ll face food shortages later in the year.

    Here in the States we have big agri-business to thank for that. Their (wall street) responsibility is to the shareholders; sustainability and local control be damned.


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    Headless Unicorn Guy: The Pious Piper is Really Really IMPORTANT, isn’t he?

    Everytime I hear Piper speak, I feel like putting on a face mask and coating my whole body with hand sanitizer.


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    Bottom line is legally they can’t keep that money! They have to return it and if they don’t I hope that those who understand exactly what these thieves are trying to do start filing a class action lawsuit for the return of their money. $300 per person is a lot of money especially right now in this current time. I guess these fools should start dipping into their stash cash and start repaying money that doesn’t belong to them. If they are trying to guilt these men into letting them keep it I think most of them see it and should persue their money, period! This is so disgusting and clearly shows their greed!!! I find it really funny how these very men make fun of joel olesteen, benny hinn and all these preachers who have mega churches they make fun of them and call them names for doing exactly what they do except they slap calvin and theology on it thinking that we don’t see a difference.


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    shauna: I find it really funny how these very men make fun of joel olesteen, benny hinn and all these preachers who have mega churches they make fun of them and call them names for doing exactly what they do except they slap calvin and theology on it thinking that we don’t see a difference.

    Because Calvin is TRVTH!!! and Perfectly Correct Ideology justifies anything & everything.