“Do you want to be in our mob?" Elena asks him.
"When did we get a mob?" he says.
"We don't have one yet. I'm working on it."
Michael turns to me.
"It's got something to do with books."
"In that case," says Michael, "I'm in.”
― Paul Acampora, I Kill the Mockingbird link
Note to lawyers and Team Pyro friends: From this point forward, every time I use the word victims, put the word alleged in front of it. But know that I believe and stand with the alleged victims and applaud SNAP, Todd Wilhelm and others who have come forward in this matter. I can believe in something even if it is not proven. So, I can believe that Casey Anthony is guilty even though she was found *not guilty.* I believe the victims.
These last 36 hours have been incredibly trying. Next week, we shall discuss a new story that was brought to the attention of TWW. It involves a church in Massachusetts which is allegedly harassing and disciplining a woman who divorced her husband for abuse. We have become convinced of her story and are planning to do a series of posts on the matter. We have been down this road before. It involves:
- Wife abuse
- A *repentant* husband
- The wife being put under discipline for pursuing a divorce
- Membership covenants
- John Piper, CJ Mahaney and 9 Marks
- Wife under discipline in spite of legally resigning from the church
- Persistent and some might say, harassing, pursuit on the part of the church.
I have been in touch with the church and we all hope that they will do the right thing or the posts will commence on 12/14. In the meantime, there is another serious situation that has developed that caused me to be hounded by Team Pyro and others on Twitter because I believe the victims in the following story. The alleged perpetrator is Tom Chantry, a Reformed pastor friend of Frank Turk and others at Team Pyro.
Tom Chantry: Indicted on child molestation charges.
According to The Daily Courier in their story Former Prescott pastor charged with child molestation:
A minister in the Baptist church, who left the area 10 years ago, has been indicted on multiple counts accusing him of sexually molesting children in 1995, 1996, and 1998 to 2001 while he was pastor of a church in Prescott.
Thomas Jonathan Chantry, 46, faces five counts of molestation of a child, related to two minors, and three counts of aggravated assault on three separate minors as well.
One alleged victim, now an adult, came forward to Prescott Police and, according to a police report, when Chantry became a pastor at Miller Valley Baptist Church, Chantry told his parents that he wanted to tutor the victim, then “approximately 9 or 10 years old,” privately in his church office.
The parents consented, and the victim claims that, during his twice-weekly hourly meetings, Chantry would spank him, “grope him, rub him, and make him sit on his lap,” the report said.
The man, now 32 years old, said that, even during the abuse he claims was happening when he was a child, he knew it was wasn’t right.
“I definitely felt it was wrong, but it was one of those things—he was the pastor … and there was nothing I could do about it.”
The man knew of at least one other boy in the same alleged situation, the report said.
Chantry was arrested in July 2016. Apparently some of Chantry's friends have known about the charges since July. For most of us, the story fell a bit under the radar until Todd Wilhelm of Thou Art the Man (and official TWW hero) alerted us to the story. He wrote extensively on the situation. Note what he has to say here. We will get back to this shortly.
In what can only be described as sad news, I must report that Reformed Baptist pastor Tom Chantry has been indicted on five counts of sexually molesting children and two counts of aggravated assault with serious physical injury. Our hearts go out to the victims, Chantry’s wife and three sons, and his parents. Chantry’s father, Walter P. Chantry is well known and respected among Reformed Christian circles.
Wilhelm makes a rather interesting observation regarding Chantry and his defense of CJ Mahaney and Sovereign Grace Ministries.
Below is an interesting article which appeared in the SGM Survivors blog several years ago. The title of the article is “Mystery Solved?” and it has gone a long way in solving a mystery for me. That mystery is why so many celebrities in the Neo-Calvinist camp have so stridently defended C.J. Mahaney. You will recall that Mahaney is credibly charged with covering-up the sexual abuse of children in the denomination which he previously was the head of. Well, guess what? Indicted child molester, Tom Chantry was a vocal defender of Mahaney and Sovereign Grace! A case of birds of a feather flock together? I wonder how many other Mahaney cronies are also hiding sexual abuse of children in their closets? It is a very plausible explanation of their fierce loyalty to Mahaney.
Wilhelm has extensively researched Chantry's writings. He presents a post written by Chantry looking at the Mark Driscoll and Tullian Tchividjian situations. Since Wilhelm posted on this a few days ago, Chantry's entire website has suddenly gone private. Never fear, Wilhelm, used to such responses, made sure to copy the entire post on his website.
Here is a quote from Chantry's article that seems perspicacious. Perhaps he had insider information?….
Todd attempted to reach out to Chantry and this is what happened.
On being alerted to Chantry’s indictment on sexual molestation of children charges, I tweeted some information about the story and tagged Chantry in my tweets. It took Chantry about thirty minutes to block me! Sorry Tom, I don’t think you will be able to keep this a secret for long!
Who is Tom Chantry?
Since his website is no longer accessible, I found this information from The Aquila Report.
According to the Christ Reformed Baptist Church of Hale’s Corners, Wisconsin, website, where he is listed as Pastor, Chantry moved to Arizona after finishing his seminary studies in California, and stayed for five years. He next moved to Washington and then taught at a Christian school in the Chicago area for four years, before moving to the Milwaukee suburb of Waukesha in 2006. That’s where he was arrested in July, on a warrant taken out by Prescott Police.
Chantry was serving as t he pastor of Christ Reformed Baptist Church in Wisconsin at the time of his arrest. He has reportedly been placed on leave. One cannot access The Pastor's Blog in that website at this time. Here is how the church described him. This is a screen shot since this will probably be disappearing as well.
SNAP released a statement on this situation.
WI–Minister arrested on child sex charges; Victims respond
For immediate release: Wednesday, Dec. 7, 2016
Statement by David Clohessy of St. Louis, Director of SNAP, the Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests (314 566 9790, 314 645 5915 home, email@example.com)
A Hale’s Corner minister has been arrested on child sex charges. We are glad that he’s been caught but we’re disappointed in how his supervisors and colleagues are responding. We call on them to work aggressively to help law enforcement prosecute the offender and find – and help – any other victims.
Rev. Thomas Jonathan Chantry of Christ Reformed Baptist Church allegedly molested five kids between 1995 and 2001 in Arizona. But not is not the time for complacency. An arrest is not a conviction. Many times, we see shrewd predators get expensive lawyers and exploit technicalities, escaping convictions or long sentences. Then, sometimes the assault more kids.
So we call on Chantry’s current and former church supervisors, colleagues and members in Wisconsin and Arizona to use pulpit announcements, bulletin notices and church mailings to help law enforcement prosecute Rev. Chantry and seek out – and help – others he may have hurt.
These churches gave Chantry access to kids. So their civic and moral duty doesn’t end with his arrest. They must help put him behind bars and help ameliorate the severe harm he’s caused.
Ministers call themselves “shepherds.” In cases like this, a caring shepherd this admits there are likely other “lost sheep” out there, suffering in silence, shame and self-blame. He or she would use every possible method of reaching out to them – church signs, bulletins, mailings and pulpit announcements. Instead, most ministers do little but focus on protecting themselves from criticism and litigation. We hope this doesn’t happen here.
(Chantry reportedly is a well-known Reformed Baptist pastor, according to Brent Detwiler, a brave man who has publicly expose the cover up of child sexual abuse in Sovereign Grace Ministries. He has attacked Detwiler because of Detwiler’s courageous advocacy.)
No matter what courts or church officials do or don’t do, we urge every single person who saw, suspected or suffered child sex crimes and cover ups in institutions – especially in churches – to protect kids by calling police, get help by calling therapists, expose wrongdoers by calling attorneys, and be comforted by calling support groups like ours. This is how kids will be safer, adults will recover, criminals will be prosecuted, cover ups will be deterred and the truth will surface.
(SNAP, the Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests, is the world’s oldest and largest support group for clergy abuse victims. SNAP was founded in 1988 and has more than 20,000 members. Despite the word “priest” in our title, we have members who were molested by religious figures of all denominations, including nuns, rabbis, bishops, and Protestant ministers. Our website is SNAPnetwork.org)
Contact – David Clohessy (314-566-9790 cell, firstname.lastname@example.org), Barbara Dorris (314-503-0003 cell, bdorris@SNAPnetwork.org)
The official charges against Tom Chantry
Both yesterday and today, I was bombarded by the Team Pyro guys and others on Twitter. You will see that some questioned the extent of the charges, even claiming that it only involved in one victim who mentioned that there might be another victim. Like that matters but they were wrong. Several also questioned why it took 20 years for the alleged victims to come forward, showing a seeming lack of understanding that this is often the case in the sexual of abuse of children.
Thankfully, Todd Wilhelm posted Official Record of Arizona Charges Against Thomas J. Chantry. Look closely at these charges since they will give you an idea why i believe that these accusations are true although yet to proven. Todd lives in Dubai but cares deeply about victims.
Note the reference to two counts of aggravated assault and serious physical injury. Do you know what this means? An attorney who reads our blog sent me this definition. This means that the injuries are probably part of some medical evidence. In other words, it is not something one can claim off the top of one's head.
There currently appear to be separate categories in Arizona for aggravated assault serious physical injury and aggravated assault of minor. I don’t know if it would be Arizona practice to specify all aggravation categories in a charge if there are more than one. (The law of course may have been different at the time of the (alleged) assaults.)
For me, the inclusion of serious physical injury and the presumed requirement for medical evidence presumably in the form of existing medical reports from the time adds credibility to charges 6 and 7. These injuries and presumably medical evidence/reports assumedly cannot be the figment of someone’s imagination or part of a vendetta. Of course, there is the separate evidential question of how the serious injuries were caused.
When I said that I believed the victims and get accused of unleashing a lynch mob on the internet.
I took to Twitter to say that I believe the victims in this instance. Little did I know that Tom Chantry has his ardent defenders and they are a rather raucous group. R Scott Glenn @Heidelcast, accused me of:
using my holy fury to unleash a lynch mob on the Internet.
Let me state this clearly. I did not say that Chantry is guilty. I said that I believed the victims. I also object to the use of the term *lynch mob* because it has far too many ties to horrific racially motivated killings of African Americans in the United States. He also accused me of violating the 9th commandment "Thou shall not bear fas witness" which he claims I was doing by stating I believed the victims. Go figure.
Here are some other tweets to give you the jist of what was happening yesterday.
Please take special note of the comment that this molestation happened 20 years ago. When he refers to the term "high probability" it was in response to my comment that I believe that he has a high probability of conviction.
Amusing aside: I decided to form my own internet mob so that when I feel the holy fury setting in, I know who to contact.
One must smile in the midst of conflict.
Things heated up when Team Pyro/Frank Turk showed up.
I continued to claim I believe the victims, much to this dismay of Turk and his friends. This unleashed all sorts of accusations towards me and others. In all my years of blogging, I have never seen such a barrage of Tweets. Here are some examples.
Turk says I do not have my facts straight when, in fact he is in error with this next claim.
Then he really hits below the belt.
Frank Turk found out that he was wrong about the *facts* of the charges and released this statement.
I am going to quote from part of it. Please read the entire statement.
The Watch-blogosphere has finally uncovered this link [http://bit.ly/2hel18n], which is reporting something that even the local news relative to the events is handling with kids gloves and not as some kind of crime wave. But: because the person arrested and indicted has a long-standing association with me via the internet, these ambulance-chasers are coming around to play a few innings of "stump the blogger."
First, let me say this: you really have no idea what my family has ever been through. You have no idea whether or not we have ever been inside one of these situations, and you have no idea whether or not we have seen this sort of thing from the inside. So before you say anything about my conscience toward victims or whatever other accusation you can muster, ask yourself if you know enough about my life to say anything which means anything other than you mean to take a pound of flesh from someone you think isn't going to respond — or worse, can afford to take the hit. If what you mean to do is gin up your own audience to bring the torches and pitchforks to my doorstep for the sake of your follower count, make sure you are ready for what really lies inside the castle outside of town.
Regarding the contents of that link, there are at least 3 things which I think are important to consider from a Biblical standpoint: human legal justice, God's eternal justice, and my obligation as a Christian brother to Tom Chantry.
…From a perspective of God's eternal justice, if Tom did the things he is accused of, he is already convicted in his heart and before the true judge of what is right. God is the one to whom Tom owes an explanation — if he is guilty. To me? Tom has been a friend and a truth-teller in all manner of hard situations, and I cannot believe that his approach in those circumstances came from either a seared conscience or a false heart. This means there is another aspect of God's justice I need to consider: what if I accuse and convict Tom when he is, in fact, innocent? Who am I before God if I treat my innocent brother like a criminal? What have I done to him before God? So as God has and will judge Tom, God is judging me — and I seek to do what He would have me do in these circumstances, not what an angry mob is asking of me.
Are most people too quick to believe in the guilt of an accused abuser? I was blamed for this today.
Our good friend, Yvonne Trimble, is now a member of my holy fury mob. Her title is *Warrior Princess. Thank you to Yvonne Trimble for the following.
Finally, applications are now being accepted for my mob. I regret to inform you that the positions of Distributor of the Pitchforks; Chief of War Games; The Grand Overseer of the Trebuchet; Warrior Princess; The Heads of the Right and Middle Flanks along with The Keeper of the Bullhorn Who Screams "Hate!", have been taken. But there are thousands of positions to be filled. Take heart!
It’s a form of Pornography for the Pious — JUICY! JUICY! JUICY!
Especially (like in that South Park episode) for a Respectable Closet Pedo who doesn’t dare do the deed himself.
Nick Bulbeck wrote:
I have been doing a lot of thinking about this point recently. All of the celebrity leaders claim to be against child sex abuse and then do everything possible to cover it up.I intend to start calling people out on this in a more direct way in the future.
Headless Unicorn Guy wrote:
Homeowners Associations are from the pit of hell. When my daughter was in the hospital being operated on for her brain tumor we received a letter that are lawn got too long. Apparently our lawn mower guy stopped mowing. One of my friends wrote them and told them to get over there and mow it themselves and stop being d******bags.
Did I ever tell you that I love you, Nick! You make me laugh on a dreary morning.
Ken F wrote:
If there were real consequences for their actions then things might actually change. By using the old standby of “thats gossip/slander” or “I confessed my sin to God and He’s forgiven me” when there has been no real repentance or consequences it keeps the door open, not only for them but others as well.
Remember what happened to the Catholic Church when their pedo-priest coverup blew sky high.
The most lasting legacy of that coverup was CATHOLIC = PEDO, NO EXCEPTIONS.
Morning drive-time radio appending “Pedophile” to every Church title — “Father-Pedophile”, “Bishop-Pedophile”, etc.
And “John Paul II — Patron Saint of Pedophiles.”
“Molested by Priest” becoming a standard backstory in fiction manuscripts when the editorial requirements include “add Catholic Content”.
At least SNAP didn’t develop this tunnel-vision on Catholics. They could all too easily have gone the route of Seventies-era Christian Cult Watch groups who tunnel-visioned on Theology and Doctrine (like Calvinistas?) and completely ignored abusive behavior towards the pewsitters.
Just like Caesar Caligula, Der Fuehrer, Baba Saddam, and Colonel Gadhafi, they could only tolerate the presence of Yes-Men. I think every pointy-haired boss with that trait has eventually had everything blow up in their face with much collateral damage.
It doesn’t matter at all in terms of awful ideas. Just wondered if the person was a groupie of Turk, and those tend to be male.
Dee out of pocket for most to the day
Hey all, I have to get the joints in my right hand and left foot injected with steroids this afternoon. I also need to write a post and am waiting for my computer to be returned after updates. So, hold down the fort. I will keep looking in.
I used to get told, often, that there’s a fine line between tempering serious comments with humour, and undermining one’s serious comments by being considered a clown.
Belatedly, I discovered that “being a clown” is in the eye of the beholder… so I ceased to care.
I, in turn, love you guys! It’s nice to find a community where one can be oneself, even if only in writing…
@ Nick Bulbeck:
er – not sure what happened there, but that was supposed to be a reply to @ Dee’s comment!
Years back when I drove by pyro to check out comments, there were enough fangirl women commenting there that it surprised me. If women did not support forms of patriarchy in a free society, it would wither away. In order to be patriarchal, there has to be grown women going along in Some way or other. Some here were even considering donning burkas in some show of support for women who support patriarchal Islam.
But what do I know? I am just an old feminist, I guess.
I have heard that as well, and the only way that makes sense to me is as sort of a ‘see how people treat you’ experiment, similar to a labor relations class where we supposed to walk around wearing a ‘union yes’ pin. (Which nobody on campus would really get, imo.) But I don’t think that was what was meant.
There are plenty of Lori Alexanderish people out there who have been convinced they have to do this stuff because gospel. I don’t know that I read Missy as a male voice, in particular, but who knows. Stephanie Drury is the one who talks about being treated differently when id’ing as a male rather than female and the internet makes a unique opportunity to do an experiment of that type.
Funny enough, my name ‘Lea’ is not really male or female, but apparently everyone reads it as female. Maybe I should run around calling myself Mark and see what happens!
It’s weird how we talk about the horrors of patriarchy here but in fact it’s really about something else. Here is a great article for us to consider.
Now we see the very liberal France and Germany trying to put limited bans on the hijab. Go figure.
It was weird to have someone insist I was posing as a male. I mean, what ARE the indicators? It was like another, albeit politically correct to her, view of gender bias. Do we communicate in pink and blue words? Grammar?
I can imagine something of that sort happening in this country on a large scale, but not by fundamentalist Christian people, no.
Some people fear that their Muslim neighbors in this country may some day face persecution. And they are already planning to stand beside these Muslim neighbors in support of them if persecution is ordered.
One idea that has been mentioned is wearing a ‘hijab’ (headscarf) if that is ever forbidden to our Muslim citizens. So, Christian and Jewish women (YES, Jewish women also) are planning to do just that come the day that religious Muslim women are ordered to stop wearing their hijabs. These Christian and Jewish women would also wear the hijab in solidarity with our Muslim sisters who also believe in the One God and who descend from the Abrahamic faith.
I do think some evangelical women would also participate, yes. But fundamentalists? No, I can’t see that. Too much fear, too much hatred, too much contempt.
The idea? We think it came from the Danes, whose king came out on a balconey with an armband with the Star of David on it when his invaded countries Jews were ordered to ‘wear their star’. The next day, the whole country was wearing armbands.
Solidarity with persecuted peoples: not an un-Christian way to live, no. Not at all.
So you are in support of male domination of Muslim women and the rule for wearing a curtain.
So anyone who disagrees with you on the reasoning behind donning a burqua is suspect of wanting to persecute Muslims. Must be white supremicists you are always worried about and manage to drip in many comments
The mean Germans are even thinking of making the girls wait until 18 to marry so to keep them in school. That is Persecution on females! :o)
I think the Muslim women in the article i linked make a great point. Aren’t they important, too?
where do you GET this stuff?
Perfect example of cleverly framing an issue. You disagree with Christiane–you have labeled yourself a hateful Fundy.
you aren’t making sense in your comment to me
Whether or not Muslim’s believe in the same god is a whole different question that we probably shouldn’t get into here.
Some people definitely ‘read’ female or male to me. Others are harder to figure out. There was a lady on another site who never identified herself as male/female and I called her female because of her speaking style and got called out on it by people who thought she was male. Turned out, I was actually correct, but it’s interesting what people see. As I say, internet is interesting and unique in this way. We can call ourselves whatever we like.
there is only one God that Abraham believed in
I am familiar with some Christian people not accepting the reasons why we call the Jewish, Christian, and Islamic faiths the ‘Abrahamic Faiths’
I think it is a good thing to be open to discussing it, but Dee is out of pocket and perhaps the Open Discussion area might be acceptable.
I’m not sure anyone should ‘go there’ if they are not comfortable discussing any topic. But that’s a personal decision to be respected.
I just don’t think it’s germane to this discussion.
I, personally, am comfortable discussing any topic, but I am choosy about where and with whom I choose to discuss them.
Nick Bulbeck wrote:
I hope you understood my comment to be tongue-in-cheek also, your yin-yang personalities reminded me of Cptn Kirk getting his personalities separated in the transporter. If your disparate characters ever need re-integration I hear Scotty can put you back together.
Whether or not Muslim’s believe in the same god is a whole different question that we probably shouldn’t get into here. “
In this case, the person kicked off with an insult, but I agree your point is an important one.
For all the fallout a troll can cause, I think Deebs are right to defer deleterating someone until that person has worked very hard to prove themselves a troll.
P.S. My daughter, who is watching over my shoulder, has asked me to pass on the following:
Say I said “Hi!”
Nick Bulbeck wrote:
Wonder where she gets it from…
Headless Unicorn Guy wrote:
It wasn’t just the media; Calvinists like John MacArthur equated the RCC with pedophilia, too. But now the shoe is on the other foot.
I have just successfully sent myself an email from a contact form I coded. Hurrah!
Bill M wrote:
More than that, I understood your comment to be a very great compliment – for which, thanks!
Nick Bulbeck wrote:
That’s adorable! Say Hi back.
Nick Bulbeck wrote:
I wonder how many of the obvious trolls who throw tantrums about being kicked off after being given a chance to speak are the same people who immediately block anyone who politely disagrees on their site or their Twitter.
Nick Bulbeck wrote:
From across The Pond (and a pebble), greetings Daughter from California, United States.
I have many Muslim friends from countries around the world. The burqa is worn in Afghanistan and not other countries.
There are some forms of covering that have been imposed on women by hard line religious fundamentalists in some countries. The women jettison said garment as soon as they are behind closed doors.
Other women don’t have to wear them at all.
I know women from those countries who are doctors, lawyers, engineers, professors, nurses, and in other professions. I have never met smarter women than them.
I am part Russian and my grandmother wore a scarf that was typical for women from her country, even though she immigrated to the U.S. and became an American citizen. Her friends at church did the same.
I know Greek grandmothers who also wore head coverings that Greek women wear.
And women from other countries who wear some sort of fabric on their heads.
Then we have nuns in religious orders in the U.S. who wear head coverings.
If push came to shove, I think we’d see the head covering issue make it all the way to the U.S. Supreme Court and be ruled as protected by the First Amendment and as a form of “speech” and “expression”.
Nick Bulbeck wrote:
I don’t think all this is relevant really. I will say I have been quite grieved at the attitude towards Muslims from evangelicals this year. I grew up with several devout Muslim friends and know them to be more free than most fundamentalist Christian girls in the US as far as college education and even down to choosing a husband. So…I’m not going to debate that fact. It is an important and relevant point, though, that patriarchy is not limited to American evangelicalism. Much of it is culturally understood: for some, oppression is to be covered up too much, for others, oppression is not to be covered up at all-the real issue is about freedom and personal choice as not the property of another human being (usually men telling women how to behave and what to wear). So that is relevant, perhaps.
My brother-in-law was injured in a head-on collision. He is in Maine, we are in Kentucky, so I only have sketchy info. He has head and neck/back injuries …… do not know how severs, but as of this morning, he was still in a medically induced coma.
I’ll pray for him now.
There are some evangelical people who care very much about the possibility of organized persecution of Muslims in this country. I believe they stand with other Christian people and Jewish people who oppose the persecution of innocent citizens.
my Ukrainian godmother, of blessed memory, always wore a headscarf to Church.
It seems that Frank Turk and Mr Chantry go back a long way as can be seen from this link
I am glad of that. I have not personally experienced it as the majority online or off, but I am aware of and glad of that fact.
I have no idea what the answer is but this reminded me, there’s a site where you can enter text and it guesses the gender of the writer based on some kind of algorithm http://www.hackerfactor.com/GenderGuesser.php
It says for best results put in at least 300 words, so just for the sake of interest, I pasted in several of Missy’s posts and here are the results it gave:
Gender Guesser claims to be 60% – 70% accurate. For what it’s worth! Ha ha!
There are more of us than you may think. I may not agree with your religion, sexual orientation, politics, etc, but I do not condone harassment of you because we dont agree on something.
There is some truth to that.
I used to run various Christian forums along with male moderators. Some of the male members (many of whom were staunch complementarians) didn’t take my position there seriously (when I asked them to please follow the rules when they would misbehave).
When I would re-visit the board under a male name to talk to those same guys (and it was an identity that was designated as a moderator) and gave the same warnings and pleas, the men didn’t argue but quickly stepped in line and complied.
You may be interested in this:
…the False Normalization of the Hijab
I don’t know if you saw my previous post to you about it, but my guess is that she was probably assuming you’re a man pretending to be a woman because you were not agreeing with her on some gender-related topic.
My impression of having read Drury’s stuff for a couple of years is that, in her thinking, the only way women would ever disagree with a left-wing feminist position are women who suffer from “internalized misogyny.”
This year it hasn’t just been about harassment of fellow citizens, but dehumanization of human beings caught up in trauma ( http://www.zwemercenter.com/why-the-church-must-love-the-refugee/ )
…to make this relevant, let’s just say I see a lot of narcissistic callousness in the culture, and it extends beyond child sex abuse- though that is the ultimate violation and symptom- to a kind of bullyculture where people refuse to listen to the perspectives of those with personal experience of things they only understand in the abstract. It’s been a very painful year. This with TeamPyro is symptomatic of something. Its a willingness to treat people as expendable rather than grieve over a likely fallen friend and sit with the victims.
I am glad there are many who hate abuses of all kinds, but there is something very arrogant and sick in our culture lately that needs to be addressed.
Brother Maynard wrote:
I don’t know if it’s still online or not, but several years ago, there was a site where you could paste in sentences, click a button, and the site would use its programming to figure out if the author of the pasted content was male or female.
I cannot remember the name of the site. But it was programmed in such a way to pick up on typical writing patterns or language usage of men or women. (Sorry I don’t remember the particulars of it, I saw it a long time ago).
Interestingly, I plugged in a few of my comments and it’s pretty sure I’m male!
I’m very sorry. I hope he recovers.
Oh how funny, I just did a post about the same thing, but before seeing yours. I couldn’t remember the name of the site or the URL for it.
I posted a comment that got stuck that I would like removed. Was too brief, and could be misunderstood!
I can understand this. I think when someone has been through an experience, they have the gravitas to describe what happened to them better than a person who can only imagine being in the same situation. Experience provides direct knowledge and a person may come out of it with certain feelings that ought to be validated by those who realize that the person has endured a difficult time.
The worst thing is for a person to be told that they ‘shouldn’t feel that way’ by someone who couldn’t possibly understand.
I’m so sorry to hear this, I will be praying for him & family.
Oh! I missed your post (reading up from the bottom today). I don’t know how accurate those things are but it’s kind of interesting.
I wonder if it is using stereotypical male/female temperament types? If a person is one of the more rare types for their gender it might not be accurate? Maybe that could explain what some people are getting a feel for as far as gender of writer goes? My husband always claims he can tell but I think he just figures the more adjectives, the more likely the writer is female, lol. I tend to take peoples’ word for it but then it doesn’t matter to me one way or the other so I don’t really think about it.
Hmmm…I wonder if that’s because she was warning the church about pedophiles and they didn’t want to hear it. Or, was it because she, being a woman, was also a police officer. Actually, I’m inclined to think it was All The Above.
This reminds me of Janet Mefferd taking J.D. Hall to task for saying that “we’re all basically sexual predators at heart.”
I read an article a while ago about researchers who were analyzing people’s speech patterns. They determined that Donald Trump talks like a woman!
Re: hijabs, it’s worth pointing out that quite a few Christian traditions (e.g. Mennonites, Copts, etc. have very similar head coverings). So it isn’t just a Muslim thing.
I am so sorry. Praying for him and your family.
one of the little people wrote:
In reading the news articles about the Tom Chantry case, there is something that is nagging between the lines. In one of those articles, it is mentioned that Chantry met with church leaders in the church in Prescott, Arizona to confess that he’d been to harsh in his spanking of the children. (my words, but you get the gist) Anyway, the article goes on to state that the parents had been given options as to what they should do. They chose not to report Chantry to the police at that time. I wonder what was said to those parents behind closed doors and if it wasn’t something similar to the above scenario. I wonder if the pastor/elders in that church didn’t use Scripture to convince the parents that going to the authorities to report the molestation of their children was unbiblical or some such thing. I wonder if they said that handling the matter In House was the best course of action. Many Christians in this scenario wouldn’t want to go against God’s will or Scripture so instead, they go along with the pastors/elders, who are only concerned about the image of their church. Then years later those same Christian parents and the child who was molested and is now an adult, realized they were manipulated by supposedly godly men and the truth was suppressed.
Lord have mercy!
Pay no attention to that Man Behind the Curtain!!!
Agreed, and I think this refusal to listen to their perspectives happens at a very fundamental level. The personal experiences are reduced to personal hurts, gripes and injured feelings; and are then dismissed / attacked in one of two ways:
You’re bitter and you need to go away and resolve your personal issues (and I don’t need to listen to or take seriously your testimony)
You’re hurt and it’s understandable that you’re angry, and you need to be healed of your personal issues (and I don’t need to listen to or take seriously your testimony).
I don’t doubt that even to this day, as he sits enthroned in heaven, Jesus feels an eternal nagging sense of guilt about Nazareth. AWWBA, Jesus did go back there, but did no great work among them because he was hurt and bitter about their trampling on his feelings. When if he had only been able to get over himself and release gospelForgiveness towards them, he might have won them blessedly to the gospel.
Except, of course, that’s not why he did no great work among them.
The comment has been removed. No problem
Chantry was also a teacher at a Christian school ……. makes me wonder/worry.
Thanks to all for prayers for mu bil. I just got off the phone with an ICU nurse at Central Maine Med. in Lewiston. My bil is out of the coma, breathing tube has been removed, he is in a brace, head trauma is improving ….. slowly. He can’t really talk on the phone yet because his mind comes and goes rather quickly. Oh me, if that hard-headed Mainiac will behave himself and follow Drs orders ……….. just maybe………..
Might be nothing but he taught 5th graders at Christian Liberty Academy. One of the comments at ratemyteachers caught my eye.
1) Is that good or bad? Is it an insult or a complement to women?
2) Who made the decision on how a woman stereotypically talks? I’d be interested to see the model. For example, does it vary by region? By religion?
3) Can someone plug St Flutterhands into the algorithm?
J. D. Hall is also the guy who wrote that kids’ book called “Help! Mom! There are Arminians under my bed!” The cover art showed a bedside table with a tulip on it.
@ old timer:
Agree, in prayer.
C’est une bonne idée.
At the beginning of the film about the ten Boom family hiding Jews and others during the Holocaust, there is a scene in their home with their pastor. (“The Hiding Place”) The ten Booms implore their pastor to save a Jewish baby by taking the infant into his home. The pastor refuses, in fear of the authorities. After the pastor leaves, the ten Boom sisters ask their father, patriarch Casper ten Boom, how their pastor could refuse to save a child. The patriarch – who later died in a Nazi camp for his heroic deeds – responds with, “Just because a mouse is in the cookie jar doesn’t make him a cookie.”
So glad to hear this, will be praying for his continued recovery. God bless.
Good detective work.
A correction is in order here. France and Germany are trying to ban the niqab and burqa, which cover the woman’s face, not the hijab, which covers the hair. While I am not sure why Germany is going this route, for France, it’s twofold. First, it’s because niqab-wearing robbers held up a bank in France in 2010 and second, because France has a thing called “Laïcité,” which is an attempt to separate church and state. Laïcité, like separation of church and state in the USA, has some exceptions. But for the most part, in state institutions, you’re not permitted to wear religious symbols. So, for example, kippahs that observant Jewish men wear are also frowned upon under Laïcité.
I always appreciate your comments, Melody. Here, on Facebook, and Twitter.
I just had a Pakistani woman neighbor deliver me a container with basmati rice and other wonderful things in the rice that she made. It’s a salty dish. She also gave me a container of homemade rice pudding with bits of shredded carrot in it and almonds.
They are celebrating a religious festival.
I gave her a brand new ceramic loaf pan since I am teaching her and the women in her family how to make Banana Bread in a few weeks. They love my Banana Bread and I always double the recipe to make one for their family.
We love and cherish each other as friends and neighbors. We would do anything for each other. She’s come to my home on a regular basis for tea. I’ve gone to her home for dinner.
A few comments aren’t going to give a good reading. You have to write something with 300 characters. I was close with 277 and the Hacker Factor determined I was male.
I would be very interested in seeing that. An (alleged!) abuser commenting on an abuse survivor blog but no one knew that at the time. The internet is forever, thank goodness.
I tried it. I pasted in a long thing I wrote, around 500 words.
Under the results, it says on the left hand side that there’s a high probability that I am a male, and the right hand side says, “WEAK Female. Weak emphasis could indicate European.”
I’m a lady. And I’m not European.
i.e. “I THANK THEE, LOOOOOOOOORD, THAT *I* AM NOTHING LIKE THOSE FILTHY ROMISH PAPISTS OVER THERE….”
JDH sounds so much like a “But Everybody’s Doing It!” Justification.
Now…here is a puzzlement. I went back to Hacker Factor and wrote an analysis on culture’s communication habits on social media and the results were quite different from the initial political analysis that I wrote. These were the results:
Female = 316
Male = 642
Verdict = Male
Female = 612
Male = 382
Verdict = Female
Now that makes no sense to me whatsoever.
By the way, the second writing had 358 characters. I’m still puzzled how I can write like a male and female at the same time. Perhaps I am an androgynous writer. 😉
Ken F wrote:
Now that is hilarious! Hey, me thinks we could have some fun plugging in comments from all our favorite Neo-Calvinists and find out how Hacker Factor would rate them!
Yes, that is good news, Nancy2. Many blessings to your bil and may he get well soon.
This article is interesting:
Ibn Abd al-Wahhab taught that one should not give a negative response to the death of a loved one or any other adversity, because to do so is to rebel against the divine will.
These men remind me of Job’s friends (who were rebuked for their callous attitude toward his suffering).
1) I just spent this last weekend at a retreat centre for eating disorders. A lot of life stories shared, and without revealing any details, it really goes to show how you never know what people are going through or have gone through. Since this weekend, I amend the previous comment to, you never know who’s life is a hundred times worse than a horror movie. And re-victimization is SO common. So, thank you Dee and Deb and others here (as well shout out to Amy and Julie Anne) for standing by the side of victims, and for calling out the victim blaming cr&p. It’s so needed.
2) The whole fiasco with Missy M showed me again the importance of trusting my own gut. I read her initial comment and was like, ‘this is snarky and rude…or is it?’ It took people on here a little while to catch on (I don’t mean that in a rude way, I think because it was subtle it took awhile for the real meanness to be very evident) so I though maybe I was imagining things. Once people here caught on, the poison was fully exposed (she/he exposed themselves) and proper action was taken to protect people here from her vitriol. Yet how many people, in general, get a sense that something is “off” with someone and instead of the other’s witnessing the same behaviour acknowledging the observation, there’s the general consensus of “nothing to see here!”. And the person with the gut feeling is like, am I crazy? It’s another point in favour of this group that abusive behaviour, trollish comment and love bombing are called out. So, thanks again.
thanks for the update, NANCY TWO. Will continue prayers for his recovery.
So much for being “transformed by the power of the Gospel™”.
Sarak K wrote:
Preach it, sister! *
In a fallen, but still God-owned, world, you get all sorts of things:
Good things that look bad;
Bad things that look good;
Good things that look good;
Bad things that look bad.
To complicate it even further, you get people calling good fruit bad and bad fruit good. A former manager within Mars Hill came up against exactly the problem you describe, but was always silenced by others around him (who quite possibly shared his disquiet) with Yes, but look at the fruit! – meaning, look at the excitingly large and rapidly-growing numbers. Only now, with the church disintegrated and many of its former members claiming that it created as many atheists as Christians, can we clearly see the fruit.
There are often times when it is really hard to see what’s really going on. That’s why we need blogs, organisations, whatever, like this – the unusual thing about TWW is that it was never set up to “counter false teaching **”, but to support victims of false behaviour.
* In the context of this thread, I should probably add the caveat that I’m assuming your chosen commenting name accurately reflects your real-life gender. I have no reason to doubt this.
** I’ve yet to come across a self-appointed exposer of false teaching who is less deceived than his or her favourite targets.
Nick Bulbeck wrote:
This is exactly what happened to us, you’re bitter and thats sinful, so because of your sin you need to confess that to them and reconcile with them. Since we’re all sinners and all sin is equal you need to understand that you have contributed to this as well. So forgive and everything can go back to the way it was.
Um, no. We didn’t ask you to do x,y, and z to us multiple times over a prolonged period of time, that was completely your decision. We asked you to stop, nope, we tried to walk in love, your actions/words finally made us draw the line. When we did so, we became the sinful unforgiving family because we refused to have the abusers around us. Funny how that works.
My guess is that they think men write in a more formal style even when writing informally. I did add enough comments to get to 300 and it still had me as male.
I tried throwing in Turk Tweets and it would have all the words as male, and then another tweet would be almost all female, etc…but it still had him overwhelmingly male (probably didn’t get to 300 words though).
What I noticed from that article is that al-Wahab sounds less extreme than the Wahabi of today (Saudis, Taliban, Boko Haram, Daesh). Like they’re not only More Islamic than Mohammed but More Wahabi than al-Wahab. This happens in mass movements (not limited to religions) when entropy sets in and “More True Believer than Thou” crossbreeds with “Can You Top This?”
Or Hacker Factor is seriously buggy/messed up.
I just realized who J. D. Hall’s comment reminds me of. Andrea Dworkin. She was known for saying that all men are rapists; later she clarified the statement to mean all men are POTENTIAL rapists. It’s an ironic similarity, isn’t it?
“Only two types of people: Women and Rapists.”
“Only two types of people: Men and Whores.”
What’s the Diff?
Holy Guacamole Batman! Past the 700 mark for comments on this thread.
Yes, it is. They are miles apart in their philosophies and yet both paint the ‘other’ as depraved. Along these lines, recently I had a liberal friend tell me that all white people are racist even if they don’t see it or admit it. She went on to explain that white people suppress their racism and often don’t even recognize that what they consider normal thinking is actually racist thinking. In her book, there is no way around it. I am a racist and if I deny it, it’s because I’m not able to recognize my thinking as racist, or I’ve buried it so deep that it won’t be recognizable unless someone (like her for instance) is able to pick my brain and expose my racist thinking. Very strange indeed.
Headless Unicorn Guy wrote:
You nailed it, HUG! A sub-category would be the only women who are not whores are those who have a Patriarchal Head over them to protect them from being what they would naturally be: whores. And the only way for those chauvinist men not to be rapists is if they first confess that they are indeed rapists. Then they must be deprogrammed and brainwashed with the hyper liberal feminist agenda. Extremism sucks, doesn’t it?
Muff Potter wrote:
Do you think we can bat a thousand?
Muff Potter wrote:
Just for you:
Muff Potter wrote:
I know that one Guacamole equals 6.02x10e23 avocados (Avocado’s number). But I don’t what what a Holy Guacamole is…
@ Ken F:
Uh…I believe that would be one guacamole = 6.02*10e23 guacs. The joke doesn’t make any sense otherwise…
. dee wrote:
I don’t think I quoted correctly. It sounds to me as though she and her Bible study group think this blog should be a “support group” for anyone who has been abused. It can and does serve that purpose, it appears to me, for certain people. But it seems to be more of a light shining in the darkness, showing all the truth completely about sexual and spiritual abuse in the Church. That job is not exclusive of on-going support, but it doesn’t always include therapeutic-ness either. So one woman from her group wasn’t helped by this blog, and had to go to therapy for a year. Well that doesn’t mean there’s anything wrong here. The criticism seems mis-plsced, at best.
Ken F wrote:
That would be with sour cream, shredded cheese, and extra tortilla chips.
I’m sorry Nancy. Praying now.
Dr. Fundystan, Proctologist wrote:
More scientifically correct, but not as much fun.
Was that a reference to the Duke lacrosse case? If so, it’s bizarre. It was apparent after a very short period of time that there were many things that didn’t add up in the accuser’s story including a history of other accusations, etc. Then there was the lack of DNA evidence for any of the accused but plenty of other DNA. She later murdered a man. To compare the tale of an adult stripper with a history of false reports to a child victim of clergy is morally reprehensible because it makes the child suspect. If the DA had not been ambitious to the point of being willing to be corrupt, there never would have been charges. There is a lot more substance for comparing the DA to the typical perpetrator or their defenders than there is to compare the false accuser in that case to an adult coming forward about being the victim of a crime as a child. That’s infuriating.
Here’s another case of molestation occurring in a church. This time it involves a parishioner and boys. This stuff is sickening.
Ken F wrote:
By the same token, a thousand killer whales is a megawhale.
It’s awful how these churches treat abused women. It boggles the mind.
Nick Bulbeck wrote:
And pain is measured in megahurts.
Sometimes pain can be so intense that there’s little to nothing to compare it to.
Shauna posted on the Open Discussion thread that she does not have funds to provide a Christmas for her son Billy. (He is the minor who was abused by a church member and Dee covered the tragic story and how the church mishandled it.)
If anyone could help out, including for presents, give cards for places like WalMart, etc.
they have some very tangible needs right now. Including the basics for living life.
I thought exactly the same thing #greatminds…
Jack – WORD/S. So much so that I’m going to cut it all out and put it on page two so it doesn’t get missed. “Move on” is ghastly terminology to me. That and ‘getting over it’. Instead we learn to live with stuff – in our own time and space and in our own way. Belief in, or hearing easily trotted out prescriptive and vacuous semi-spiritual cliches can hinder healing and do not contribute to wholeness.
Thank you for bringing this to our attention, Velour. 🙂
Finally read through the comments (admitting to skimming some and skipping a few but mostly reading all). Wow, just wow, is all I can say to Missy M’s attack. 🙁 Thank you so much, Deebs, for what you do and for your determination not to be intimidated or sidetracked. God bless you! Thank you to Lydia, Nick, and others who are so insightful as well.
@ Muslin, fka Dee Holmes & mirele:
I understood that. But note the timing. What I find ironical are liberals who disdain Christian Patriarchy but are eager to don a symbol of submission to Muslim patriarchy as support to that system of oppression. It makes no sense. One can support an individual without endorsing an oppressive system they are part of. But it is PC and fashionable these days.
You might want to work with refugees. A popular manipulative tactic from the left is to accuse anyone who questions oppressive Muslim systems– of hating. It is very PC and fashionable. Nevermind the Islamic stance on women and homosexuals, right?
There is a delight in feeling very pious when positioning others with such a label so one can position themselves as true bearers of light or whatever vague love bombing platitude they are Hawking at the moment.
If patriarchy is bad for Christians, why not for Muslims? Because that is not PC at the moment. Got it. Good luck with that
This is true in a lot of areas of church and society. We should always be wary of it.
This is true. If one wants freedom for women in the Evangelical world, one cannot turn around and say it is acceptable in the Muslim world. Well, they can say it is acceptable, but . . . they would be a hypocrite.