"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." Winston Churchill link
Before you read this post, we have a big favor to ask of our readers. We will be linking to a website written by a family that is being cared for by John Catanzaro. We would ask that, in subsequent comments, the names of these folks not be used. We would also request that you not contact them or comment on their blog. We will edit any comment which includes the name of this family. TWW has not attempted to contact them due to privacy concerns. We also ask that you speak positively of this family in your comments.
A simple Google search of John Catanzaro's name led me to a blog written by a family who, for the purposes of this post, I shall call the Smiths. Ms. Smith received a diagnosis of Multiple Myeloma which has a concerning, long-term prognosis, but strides are being made. The family is reportedly receiving care from both a certified oncologist as well as Catanzaro. TWW requests that you pray for this family. Here is a link to that blog. Update 2/5: I received an email from a family member advising me to take the link down. So, I did. I have the link if proof is needed for these comments….Update 2/6: It appears the family took my advice and made their website password protected. In other words, you can't get there from here even if you had the link.
As stated yesterday, I was deeply disturbed by what I had been reading. It was on the website of this family that I read a number of things that concerned me. For the purposes of this post, I will refer to only a few blog entries since they are relevant to the information I will discuss.
We are preparing for the development of the next immunotherapy vaccine with the Health & Wellness Center. I had a 2-hour conversation on the phone the other day with Dr. John Catanzaro, who talked us through why this vaccine is different and something to be particularly hopeful about… the most significant being that he is now partnering with the Dana-Farber Cancer Institute in Boston!
The first time that Ms. Smith and I read anything speaking of a CURE for Multiple Myeloma was forwarded by a friend from an article published about advances by doctors at Dana-Farber. This provided us with a great deal of hope, as well as assurance that the treatment we are pursuing with Health & Wellness Center is legitimate. It was SUPER encouraging to hear Dr. John say that he is now partnering with Dr. Ken Anderson at the Dana-Farber Institute to develop the same kind of vaccine for Ms. Smith that Dana-Farber Institute has experienced so much success with. (I included some links below if you want to know more).
Now, let's take a look at an email the Smiths claim to have received from John Catanzaro. Reminder: insurance will not pay for this vaccine.
<April 17, 2013> Reminding you that Ms. Smith HLA testing needs to be set up asap. We need to in three weeks time have her urine sent over frozen to Dana Farber to begin analysis.
HLA High resolution testing should be $700 through Labcorp.
Vaccine Development Cost: The cost for them for the full analysis is $5,000. The cost of peptide development is $5500 and the blood vaccine $5500. The total cost of HLA matched vaccine with cells then is $16,000. This is with the cancer research group sponsoring 50%. Otherwise the cost is $32,000.
The Cost of vaccine development with HLA High Res testing included is $16,700.
Thank you,
Dr. John A. Catanzaro, Medical Director Clinical Research
Health & Wellness Institute
HWIFC Cancer Research Group
What does a couple that does not have a large disposable income do in this circumstance? They begin to fundraise, of course. And concerned friends and family will help them as should be expected. Once again, I am not blaming this dear family for any of their actions. They are the victims in this situation. Here is what they wrote on their blog:
We need your help in raising this $16,700.
When first hearing this figure, I was a bit shocked, but thinking back on the past year… God was faithful to provide. There were SO MANY joyful givers, amazing examples of generosity, and beautiful moments in which we were lifted up and provided for by our friends, family, and an absolutely awesome community of people near and far away. Just looking back at our older blog posts — my worries and temptation to take all of the responsibility on myself have been squished.
If you feel moved to help us, please consider the following options:
Give using a Checking/Savings Account
This can be a one-time donation or you can arrange to have a small amount withdrawn from your bank account monthly for as long as you would like to support us.Give using a Credit or Debit Card
This is run by our friends at EFT Giving who generously have decided to take 0%, so all of your donation goes directly to pay for Ms Smith's medical expenses.Tax-Deductible Gifts You can give a tax-deductible gift directly to the Health & Wellness Institute to help us pay for the development of Ms. Smith's vaccine by calling the Health & Wellness Institute at (425)697-6112 with your credit card information, or by mailing a check to the HWIFC Cancer Research Group: Payable to: HWICRG, *Be sure to indicate that it is for Ms Smith
"Remember this: Whoever sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and whoever sows generously will also reap generously. Each of you should give what you have decided in your heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver. And God is able to bless you abundantly, so that in all things at all times, having all that you need, you will abound in every good work." ~2 Corinthians 9:6-8
"Then the people rejoiced because they had given willingly, for with a whole heart they had offered freely to the LORD." ~1 Chronicles 29:9
Then they provide their readers with information on Dr Ken Anderson (see below).
"Targeted Cancer Drugs Keep Myeloma Patients Up And Running" (February 18, 2013) — National Public Radio recently did this piece on the advances for treating Multiple Myeloma, including an interview with Dr. Ken Anderson from Dana-Farber (who Ms. Smith's doctor is working with). The segment quotes Dr. Anderson stating — "We're close, close, close… that's doctor-speak for a CURE."
Here is one more comment on fundraising:
My vaccine that Health & Wellness and Dana Farber are collaborating on is in the works as well. We have over $10K of the needed $16K raised. Thank you for being SO generous. It really blows us away. I am very excited about this vaccine and feel like we are very close to a possible cure for this nasty disease. We are thankful for the work that is being done by Dana Farber and the doctors at Health and Wellness on my behalf.
Finally, here is an interesting comment. Apparently, Ms. Smith's real oncologist had not been fully on board with Catanzaro's treatment regimen. Actually, the family calls it a feud.
The good news is that her immunotherapy vaccine should be ready this month and her oncologist was MUCH more supportive after learning that the Health and Wellness Center has been working with doctors at Dana-Farber on developing the vaccine. (He personally knows one of the main doctors at Dana-Farber who has been behind much of the research and discoveries in this area). This felt very encouraging to us both as Ms. Smith's oncologist and naturopath doc have feuded in the past and seeing both doctors has been a tension. Getting her oncologist on-board for this vaccine feels like a HUGE answer to prayer!
Please refer to yesterday's post for more background on John Catanzaro. Here are a few of his claims:
- He is working in a private movement with expert Dana Farber Cancer Institute/ Harvard cancer scientists in the area of cancer proteomics and molecular genetics in developing individualized HLA matched cancer peptide strategies through a subcontract with NeoBioLabs, Cambridge Ma.
- (He is) a registered Principle (sic) Investigator with the National Institutes of Health.
- He also completed the NIH clinical research training required for principle investigators.
The NIH
Yesterday, I had the opportunity to speak with LaTonya at the NIH Office of Clinical Research Training and Education link. She confirmed that John Catanzaro did complete an online training course. However, this course does not certify him to be an Investigator or Principal Investigator. From their website we learn:
Who is eligible to enroll in the course? Anyone who has an interest in the subject matter can enroll in the course.
Will the certificate certify that I can conduct clinical trials? No, the certificate shows that one has an overview of the knowledge presented in the course.
She also assisted me in looking to see whether John Catanzaro is currently a Principal Investigator. She said she was unable to find him listed in the NIH database. I also did the same search at this site with no results. Apparently, a TWW reader did the same thing. Here is the comment by "G":
I have enjoyed reading your site for several months and am happy to be able to offer a bit of information. I work with NIH grants and NIH-funded researchers every day, so I know more about both than any normal person would ever want to know! A few points – 1. There is no such thing as an “NIH-registered Principle Investigator.” First, the term is “Principal” (not “Principle”) Investigator.
Second, a person is either funded by NIH or he/she is not. “Registered” is not a term anyone uses. 2. You can search for NIH-funded grants by Principal Investigator name at this site – http://projectreporter.nih.gov/reporter.cfm I did two quick searches going back 20 years and did not find anything under the name of the person in question.
3. He “completed the NIH clinical research training required for principle investigators” means nothing in terms of a person’s qualifications or the quality of his/her research.
This perceptive reader picked up on two other points:
- The term is "Principal" Investigator, not "Principle" Investigator as written by Catanzaro. (Dee Dee, another reader also brought this to our attention.)
- There is no such thing as a "Registered" NIH Principal Investigator.
While on the phone with the NIH Office of Clinical Research Training and Education, I asked if it was possible that Catanzaro had filled out some form to apply to be a Principal Investigator which had somehow not been entered into the system. She said she had never heard of such a designation of a Registered NIH Principal Investigator.
Dr Ken Anderson of Harvard's Dana Farber Cancer Institute (DFCI)
Dr. Anderson is one of the world's leading experts on Multiple Myeloma — Ms. Smith's diagnosis. Here is a link to Warren Throckmorton's post on the same subject. Throckmorton explained:
With the help of Dr. John Peteet, a friend at DFCI, I was able to make contact with Ken Anderson who replied simply that there is “no connection” between Catanzaro and Anderson.
DFCI's Senior Media Relations Specialist, Teresa Herbert, confirmed this officially (on behalf of the DFCI) in an email to the both of us this afternoon at 4 pm.
Good afternoon Warren and Dee,
Dr. Ken Anderson and John Catanzaro are not working on any projects together.
Teresa Herbert, Dana-Farber Cancer Institute
Teresa M. Herbert
Senior Media Relations Specialist
Dana-Farber Cancer Institute | Department of Communications
450 Brookline Avenue, OS-382A | Boston, MA 02215
We expect to hear more from Teresa Herbert and DFCI as they are currently investigating further claims allegedly made by Catanzaro. When that occurs, we will post it here.
NeoBioLab, Cambridge, Massachusetts link
I spoke with PC Zhu, PhD & MBA of NeoBioLab yesterday. He made the following statement to me:
Like most scientific reagent companies, we provide reagents for research use only, and do not conduct the experiments on live patients through our company.
The Multiple Myeloma Research Foundation link
According to their website:
The MMRF relentlessly pursues innovative means that accelerate the development of next-generation multiple myeloma treatments to extend the lives of patients and lead to a cure.
This wonderful organization keeps its fingers on all ongoing clinical trials and advances in the treatment for Multiple Myeloma (MM). I spoke with Shawn Larkin whose duty it is to be aware of all clinical trials. He told me that he was unable to find any listing for a John Catanzaro who is affiliated with an ongoing MM trial.
Finishing up:
The information we have discovered is deeply concerning. There is much left to discuss. For now, let me end with a quote from Warren Throckmorton's post. I thank him for all of the assistance he provided as we searched for solid information. He wrote:
According to the information presented by Catanzaro’s patient, Catanzaro claimed that DFCI was being paid to help develop an individualized vaccine. However, since Catanzaro’s lab is not conducting approved clinical trials, it seems odd and frankly hard to believe that DFCI would provide the kind of services Catanzaro claims. Hopefully, DFCI can address this question soon. If there isn’t and hasn’t been a connection, then Mr. Catanzaro may have to explain more than his suspended license to his patients.
Finally, here is a clip from the local news discussing John Catanzaro's suspension.
First!!! Yet again!!! Deebs mental telepathy!! đ
Good research Dee and Warren.
Just to let everyone know, both of my parents are now out of the hospital. My mom is doing VERY well for having had a heart attack on Saturday. Cardiologists rock!
Before I get into a rant…and I feel several building in me at this time I would like to propose something here at TWW. Maybe it can even be done with Mars Hill Refuge and survivors of Acts 29. Wouldn’t it be even sweeter if the former attenders of the Acts 29 replant participated in what I am about to propose.
The Smiths’ have been the victims of fraud. This fraud is well planned, deliberate and due to the nature of the disease, I would say that this fraud is also evil.
They are also the victims of Mark Driscoll since Driscoll recommended and pushed Catanzaro. They are also the victims of Mars Hill Seattle, and this couple needs help. They need medical help, they need assistance. One of the highlights of SGM Refuge was when Jim and the blog rallied behind Esther when her story at Sovereign Grace Chesapeake became known. When the Smiths realize that they are the victims of fraud this will implode in several ways.
1. They will realize they have been had.
2. The medical treatment they are receiving was not legitimate.
3. They were mislead to believe DFCS was involved when they are not involved.
4. When this becomes public will they face discipline for going against Mars Hill? A medical version of Andrew?
5. Will they face a shunning and being cut off as this poor person is fighting cancer?
I have a gut feeling that this is going to be happening now or is around the corner. How about if those who were the victims of Mars Hill, Mark Driscoll, etc.. rallied around her and helped her get proper treatment and financially gave to help her out..IF the money is going to a licensed and certified oncologist.
This write up on the “Smith’s” blog in light of what is happening blows me away.
“My vaccine that Health & Wellness and Dana Farber are collaborating on is in the works as well. We have over $10K of the needed $16K raised. Thank you for being SO generous. It really blows us away. I am very excited about this vaccine and feel like we are very close to a possible cure for this nasty disease. We are thankful for the work that is being done by Dana Farber and the doctors at Health and Wellness on my behalf.”
@ Southwestern Discomfort:
Wonderful news! We will continue to keep them in our prayers.
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Do you know how much of this crap gets under my skin?
From the blog…”Dr. Angove closed our appointment by praying for “mrs Smith”. As I mentioned, both Dr. Angove and Dr. Catanzaro are Christians. Why does this make such a big difference to us when we’re talking about Doctors and Medical Science? To put it simply — we believe that Jesus is our Great Physician. We believe that while he may work through others, believers or not, HE alone has the power to heal Mrs Smith. (See Mark 5:25-29). We also trust that these doctors are acting as servants, with our best interests in mind, knowing that they are working for the God of the Universe and not gods of power, science, knowledge or money.
Why do Christians do this?!? You choose a person because they are qualified/ You choose a doctor because they are medically trained and certified. You choose a mechanic who is certified. You choose a school based on the quality of the education and the aptitude of the professors. YOU DO NOT BASE EVERY DECISION off the fact that “well he’s a Christian….”
The last sentence…”We also trust that these doctors are acting as servants, with our best interests in mind, knowing that they are working for the God of the Universe and not gods of power, science, knowledge or money.” in light of the entire story makes me want to kick something and go out on the balcony of my condo and scream!! That is not the way to make a decision. Mark Driscoll. needs to own up and admit and repent. Why is it that the celebrity pastor is the only one in the word who has NO NEED, NO BASIS to repent? Repentance is Christianity 101.
BTW…in the my first post I meant Countryside in Indiana. My browser had problems and spell check and the web page froze on me.
I have to say that I have a great deal of respect for Warren Throckmorton. I’ve read his blog for some time. I stumbled across it a while back. I’ve read his posts on David Barton, how fundagelicals have exported the culture wars to Uganda, and so many other issues.
Warren, like Dee Parsons and Deb helps me deeply. Its nice to see sanity in Christianity and it grieves me that there is not more common sense out there. I think Warren is one of the better aspects of evangelicalism and him holding people responsible is outstanding. I hope he continues doing it. I have wondered for years why Warren and people like Deebs are doing the job of magazines like Christianity Today. Why isn’t Christian journalism investigating, reporting, and analyzing fraud? Christian journalism needs a Bob Woodward and Carl Bernstein. That’s why so much of this crap exists. Kudos to Warren and Deebs!
Having been treated myself for MM, (presently in treatment again) and having been a patient at Dana Farber, Boston, this story makes me cry……too close to heart and home.
As for Catanzaro, even if he believes the therapy he promoted might work, he is a loser because he deceives his patients.
Will pray for the Smiths….I do understand the severity of MM, the endless treatments, side effects and fears. Still, I will pray they examine the worst but, hope for the best, Secondly, I pray she considers getting second/third opinions from knowledgeable oncologists (regardless of their religious status) who can prescribe a course of treatment (using credible protocols) that best match the progression of the disease.
Lin wrote:
Thank you for your comment. I just prayed for you.
@ Lin: Thanks for your heartfelt comment. I, too, am praying for you.
This is so incredibly sad. That family will be in my prayers.
Deebs….does the Hippocratic oath apply here? Was Catanzaro bound by it?
This is so sad and so frustrating on a number of different levels.
It doesn’t surprise me, though. In my discussions with Calvinistas about their rejection of clinical psychology in favor of nouthetics, I’ve often posed the question, “When you are physically ill, you go to an MD, so why wouldn’t you go to a PsyD when you are mentally ill?”
It seems that now the trend might be to forgo MDs as well, in favor of some pseudo “physician” who prays better than he practices evidence-based medicine.
Mr.H wrote:
With Church Discipline(TM) as a Heathen(TM) if you don’t.
“Do you follow Men or do you follow GOD?”
I wish I wasn’t the first one to post. I often get an internal feeling about this blog and check my computer or Android and see the fresh post. So I often joke about that…
But I wish I didn’t have to read about this. Its a story of medical fraud. After posting so much I got so enraged that I left my condo and went out to think it over. Driving on the streets as an ice storm is occurring is not cool. But I was so disturbed and angry by what I read that I needed space to think. I like to drive around when I need to think.
This is a story of medical fraud. I’m angry and livid. The last time I felt like this was when I read the amended complaint with SGM which listed the graphic sexual abuse. When I read that I paced in my apartment and was unable to sleep that night. I’m not going to get a lot of sleep tonight. This story so fills me with rage. This is a family who has been had. The were victims on multiple levels and this is still playing out.
My family has been touched by cancer. My Mom dealt with pancreatic cancer and my Dad was dealt with a brain tumor. Can you imagine a neurosurgeon who spent 3 decades treating brain tumors, etc.. struggling with one? That’s the one thing that angers and haunts me Mom. My family has been through hell in so many ways. They stopped the chemotherapy on my Dad in December as the tumor responded to it. They wanted to see how things would go and they wanted my Dad to come back to Stanford for another MRI in two months to see if the brain tumor had come back. If it did…due to the medical history of this kind of tumor it would came back as a stage 4 glioblastoma. That day for the MRI was today, and my family has been sitting on pins and needles all day. My family in Stanford me in Washington, D.C. awaiting the news. Fortunately the MRI came back clean and my sister sent me a text informing me. It was a sense of relief when I finally heard the news.
But I grieve and am livid for what this poor family has gone through. Mark Driscoll is a fraud. He is not qualified to give medical advice. If so that I am qualified to fly a 767 from New York to Chicago with no training what so ever.
Mark Driscoll get out of the pulpit you are a disgrace to Christianity.
Neo Reformed theology is filled with so much controversy. Its also filled with a lot of hypocrisy. I find it so amusing to hear these guys talk about a Sovereign Lord, Sovereignty of God, and how intricate God is in control of things. Then you see the hypocrisy that plays out and its sick.
Take John Piper…here’s this guy butting his head into natural disasters as they play out. A town is reeling due to the devastation of a tornado, a bridge collapse, etc.. And then you see John Piper talking about the Lord’s sovereignty and how he ties the will of God into the disaster that took place.
THEN…you have John Piper who teaches this sovereignty who when he gets a death threat in Minneapolis goes to the Minneapolis Police Department. My reaction was one of the following… “Brother John don’t you believe the Lord is Sovereign? Don’t you believe like Job teaches that the Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away? Why have you resisted the Lord’s will by going to Minneapolis Police? Don’t you know that by your actions you have shown that the Lord is not Sovereign over all creation? Brother John doesn’t that Sovereignty apply to you? Since the Lord wanted to take your life, why didn’t you submit and recognize that it was time for you to be taken away?”
If you are going to be a Hyper-Calvinist since the sovereignty is nothing but determinism, then the final result – whatever it be should be nothing but pure submission.
Child abuse, DUI that killed someone on a highway, serial killer in Milwaukee who cannibalizes and has sex with corpses, child hit on a street, heart attack at home, a diver who breaks his neck in a pool, etc… that is all the Lord’s will if you are going to be a Hyper-Cal…and unless you submit to the Sovereignty of the Lord….you’re nothing but a hypocrite.
End rant on Hyper-Calvinism
Michael Newham at Phoenix Preacher posted the following about Mark Driscoll in yesterday’s “Things I Think”. I love this….
——
I would like to ask the Gospel Coalition why they publish articles on holiness and repentance while also linking to Mark Driscolls work. That is hypocrisy as it promotes sin in leadership while condemning it in the pews. That hypocrisy is what is destroying the church in this countryâŚ
So Mark Driscoll can have supposed visions about people's sex lives and sex abuse and make claims he has the gift of discernment, but he can't see a fraud in his life…
Can criminal charges be filed against Catanzaro by law enforcement in Washington state?
If the suspension is upheld by the state Dept. of Health, can he move to another state and set up his business again?
Oh my gosh, I am a former MH member and I know these people. I feel sick.
Eagle wrote:
Thank you.
Just that. From the bottom of my heart, Eagle, thank you. You said this so well.
Of course there was a “feud” between the oncologist and this other guy. Can you just imagine being the oncologist and trying everything possible for the patient and then having to watch both patient and family fall prey to lies and misrepresentations. And probably the oncologist has seen this before and in more than one patient.
I do want to say, the FDA in this case is not the villain. We do have some problems with the functioning of our governmental systems, but this is not one of those instances. Conspiracy theories are over-rated.
@ Bene D:
I think the key is the money. The email from Catanzaro to the Smiths had a “Sold on Tv” sounding element to it. “Tell ya what I’m a gonna do. The vaccine costs $32,000 but, if you sign up right now, I will give it to you for just $16,000.
There needs to be a full investigation of this whole operation and I am hoping the word gets out.
Nancy wrote:
Of course not. The villains are those who did not tell the truth. The FDA is there to protect people from shysters as well as to protect people from their ignorance.
Anon wrote:
I knew this would happen and it stressed me out. The only way to show that Catanzaro is not who he claims to be is to use the words of those who have been “sold.”
My dilemma was this. I could not mention the Smiths and then I would have little to go on except the Linked In and online statements. Their blog provided the money angle of this thing. DFCI has seen this and are investigating it from their end of things. I can assure you, that bothered them.
I will be mentioning one other aspect of their blog today and that is the Mark Driscoll connection.
BTW, I have copied their entire blog in case they are pressured to take it down.
Finally, if you do know them, please tell them that I am praying for them and I believe that they were victims in this whole mess. Their blog may have prevented others from being hurt.
@ dee:
Oh yeah, and reassure them that the therapy from their authentic oncologist has probably helped them even if the “vaccine” did not.
Mr.H wrote:
Darn good comment. BTW- I received an email today that says Ken Ham is a big proponent of nouthetic counseling. No surprise-science is wrong and so is counseling. *facepalm*
Curiouser and curiouser.
Actually, it’s getting more and more disturbing. Just how much has this “doctor” misrepresented himself, to his patients and to the public?
This is amazing investigative work, Deebs and Warren. I so certain it will sicken me to find out how Driscoll ties into this whole mess. But whatever the truth is, it needs to be known.
Amazing investigative work…just amazing…..keep up the good work.
Serving Kids in Japan wrote:
I’m waiting for the first mention of “GOD WILL HOLD YOU ACCOUNTABLE(TM)!!!!!” (i.e. God Will Punish You) for Gossip(TM) and Slander(TM) against Catananzo. And how You Must Go To Doctor Catananzo (instead of those HEATHEN Establishment oncologists) As a Profession of FAITH.
“And you’ll only drink milk
If it comes from a CHRISTIAN Cow…”
— Steve Taylor, “Guilty by Association” (and the title cuts both ways)
dee wrote:
Though the FDA really needs to do something about its bureaucratic inertia; the US is too often the LAST First World country to approve new drugs or treatments, leaving a hole of desperation that Alternative Medicine types (both genuine and bogus) can fill.
Eagle wrote:
Eagle, I was reading that spelling “Lord” with two “O”s and all-caps.
As for why Reverend “It’s All Predestined, In’shal’lah” would go to the cops instead of shrugging and going “Eh, Kismet”, remember that The Predestined Elect are always More Equal Than Others.
Headless Unicorn Guy wrote:
I thought Sean came pretty close to it on yesterday’s thread.
And he was the FIRST commenter over there, too. What, did Sean just start trolling websites that mentioned Catanzaro as soon as news of his suspension hit the web?
I mean, I knew Driscoll had fanboys, but Catanzaro? That takes the cake, in my book.
@ Headless Unicorn Guy:
Remember thalidomide?
Being first or last to approve some drug is not the issue. Being right (correct) is the issue. One cannot at the same time claim that the FDA and big Pharm are in cahoots to profit big pharm, while at the same time say that the FDA excessively drags its feet on approving new drugs. It may be one or the other, but it can’t be both. ( I am aware that you did not say both, but such opinions have been stated.)
Quackery and such thrive because they sell hope. They tell people what they want to hear. Sometimes it is what they are desperate to hear. Like “I can cure your disease.” Or “I can solve your problem.” Or perhaps worst of all “Do what I tell you and God will be happy with you.”
First, please don’t misunderstand this post as critisism or being annoying or trying to undermine the work of this blog. I don’t comment very often but I do read regularly. As someone who pretty much believes the “traditional” form of reforemed theology (as opposed to neo or hyper calvinism) I have learned a lot from this site and I am greatful for the work done warning about some of these ridiculous and scary people like Driscoll. i am espeically greatful for learning about Wade Burelson from this site. He has actually helped me quite a bit with some theological questions.
Anyway, my question is I don’t really get what these posts have to do with the purpose of this blog. Medical fraud, while important to uncover, seems like it doesn’t really fit here. Is it just the fact that Driscoll has used this guy and seems to have recommended him? Is it because the doctor claims to be a christian? Does he really have that much influence in the christian community to warrent all these posts? Again that is not a snide criticism it is just a question. Trying to figure out how this all fits. Some Eagles comments kind of explained it to me. But guess I am just surprised or confused as to this topic. those aren’t really aren’t the right words but just trying to figure out the bigger picture.
I was just going to commend Dee and Deb for pursuing this story and got to your comment and my response ties in with it. You do have a great question.
What Dee and Deb (and many others like me) do on our blogs is try to out ourselves in the seat of a victim/survivor. In this case, this family may not even know what is happening – – that someone in a position of trust, a “doctor” is “helping” them. This family may in fact be in harms way by receiving medical advice and an unapproved vaccine. Driscoll is also in a position of trust and spiritual authority. He leads people/guides people, gives them spiritual advice – – people follow him and his advice, sometimes blindly when they are in a position of needing help. Driscoll endorsed this guy who appears to have misled people with his medical credentials. So the Smiths trusted Driscoll – – they essentially put their lives in his recommended “doctor’s” hands. Scary thought.
Driscoll has a chronic problem of honesty and integrity. This definitely needed to be addressed publicly, after all, Driscoll advertised this guy publicly.
Aly K wrote:
OK-let’s get down to it. I will be posting on this as well.
1. Not only did Driscoll use this guy, he pushed him on his website. Catanzaro wrote 18 posts for Resurgence which have been scrubbed. Driscoll shows a profound lack of integrity by not investigating the individuals he is pushing. It also appears that his “visions” only extend to explicit sex acts and not to allegedly deceitful buddies.
2. This couple went to this guy because their pastor recommended him.
3. They believed everything this man told them because he is a Christian and has their best interests at heart.
4. It appears Christians like Driscoll do not do their homework.
5. This couple are getting soaked for enormous amounts of money for vaccines with the promise of potential cure. How is this any different than televangelists who promise wealth if you just send in a contribution?
That’s just for starters.
dee wrote:
Though there are experimental immunotherapy vaccines for cancer (the one for prostate cancer costs $30,000 for each of three treatments, so the $32,000 quoted is not out-of-line), this “tell ya what I’m gonna do” sales pitch does NOT do much for this one’s credibility.
dee wrote:
Is “One Hand Washing The Other” behind the scenes?
How else can a ManaGawd get his porn fix and still be respectable and Godly?
@ dee:
Dee, please put quotes around “Christian and has their best interests at heart”! I do not think that he really has their best interests at heart. What he has is a peronsal financial interest in their disease.
Julie Anne wrote:
Remember, the ManaGawd Can Do No Wrong.
You don’t want to be the next Heretic thrown under the bus, do you?
Serving Kids in Japan wrote:
Fanboys or Sock Puppets.
I have a friend who regularly will mention her mechanic, chiropractor, etc as “good Christians.” Sometimes I wonder how she knows. Does she ask them? It wouldn’t occur to me to ask potential doctors, dentists, lawyers, accountants, or mechanics what religion they are. I just want a good doctor or mechanic. I’m not naive enough to think that one who calls himself or herself a Christian is any more trustworthy than one who is a pagan or atheist.
I don’t know what Driscoll is thinking scrubbing the Resurgence website of all the Cantanzaro articles. He must know that his actions are simply going to cast more suspicion on himself and Cantanzaro, not less.
The million dollar question to me is “Why was Driscoll promoting Cantanzaro on the church website?” Did he simply think that Cantanzaro was a person who could help others as he had supposedly helped Driscoll? Was there possibly some exchange of services? Is Driscoll somehow invested with Cantanzaro? IMHO a church website should never endorse anything but the church.
dee wrote:
Dee, you of all people know better than to make a statement like that. Of course he does his homework. How else would other people’s statements end up in his books as if he himself first made the statements? It takes lots of HOMEWORK to find other people’s stuff.
@ TedS.:
Lots of homework by third parties?
Nancy wrote:
I do remember thalidomide. Dr. Frances Kelsey was one of my heroes growing up!
Interestingly, it is now being used to treat multiple myeloma. My mother took it in combination with another drug. She was 86 and much amused at the 15 page form she had to read and sign promising she wasn’t pregnant and wasn’t planning to try to get pregnant.
My heart goes out to this couple.
There’s great job security at Mars Hill for internet scrubbers. Just sayin’
Julie Anne wrote:
Working the memholes at the Ministry of Truth. Complete with Big Brother’s soft round faux-hawked face on the giant Telescreens.
TedS. wrote:
“…My first book.
Every chapter I stole from someone else.
Index I copied from old Vladivostok telephone directory.”
— Tom Lehrer, “Lobachevsky”
I can relate to this entire issue.
I had an older sister who died of Polycystic kidney disease around 1956. She was 3 or 4 at the time of her death. My mother will go on and on to this days about how evil doctors are because they did not continue to try and cure her. At that time medical science didn’t have any way to deal with it. Dialysis was not yet available. Nor kidney transplants.
So my mother went looking for a cure. She eventually got with Chiropractors who convinced her that spinal manipulations might do the trick. But the local Chiros couldn’t cure her so they made arrangements for her to fly to Denver for this specialty hospital that had used Chiropractic methods to make the lame walk, cure acne, cure cancer, and I suspect raise the dead but I didn’t see that in their 50 page newsletters that I found recently.
My mother is still convinced that if my sister had not died on the flight out these spinal manipulators would have cured her.
And to this day she does the alternative cure route on most everything. (I got raised eating peanut butter with wheat germ mixed in it.) As my brother says, whatever she last heard from a “blue hair preacher”.
If course when the alternatives finally fail and the issue can’t be ignored any lnger, she winds up in the emergency room getting a $30,000 treatment for something that could have been dealt with for $300 a few years earlier. The worst was a melanoma on her head that she ignored for 10 years or more till it requires removal of part of her skull for some astronomical cost.
At some points you want to put these folks in stocks out front for the public to view.
When I returned to my hometown, I ran into the same problem trying to find a dentist. My family would recommend several names saying, “They are very good Christians”. What does their spiritual condition have to do with their job qualifications? I did find a very skilled dentist, who I found out later is a believer. However he is a dentist by profession, not a “professional Christian! The two “scams” I see promoted in churches are alternative medical treatments that have not been proven and multi-level marketing programs. Disgusting! Ann
Ann wrote:
It’s the same thing with business people. I often wonder about local plumbers or electricians or lawn care or auto body shops or whatever, who have a “fish” as past of their advertising. Trying to get the “Christian” trade…..SMH….
Ann wrote:
And there’s usually a NEGATIVE correlation between the two. (At least often enough you don’t want to take the chance.) I’ve read on other blogs accounts of Christian(TM) businesses either doing shoddy work or flat-out ripping off their Brothers in Christ(TM), then taking the “Don’t go to the Heathen/Don’t harden your heart, you must Forgive” route when ripped-off customer demands satisfaction.
* In local Eighties SF fandom, we used to say you could recognize “It’s Christian(TM)” because of the shoddy work.
* Over in one of the Internet Monk threads, someone reminisced about working ads at a radio station; if the advertiser self-identified as Christian(TM), it was cash up front ONLY. (They’d extend credit to a crackhead before they would a Christian(TM), because from experience the druggie was less likely to rip them off.)
* In the above thread, others chimed in with similar experiences; one even related a story of a disastrous kitchen remodel; the Christian(TM) contractor’s excuse was that the bad work was actually done by Demons sent by SATAN and thus Not My Fault.
@ Bridget:
He’s *not* thinking. I know this is going to sound harsh, but he seems to me to be someone who doesn’t think she’s – look at how he mouths off. I doubt he expects anyone is going to be able to touch him, but y’know… I think his claims of street smarts are (how can I say this?) just one more instance of his continual b.s.ing.
And truthfully, he’s like an aging frat boy who just doesn’t stop to reason through the consequences of his actions. All facade, no depth, but the MH team sure knows how to put on a show every Sunday!
I wonder if this stuff is showing up in Seattle media yet. They probably need to let the Sea hawks euphoria die down a bit before a story like this one will get readers’ attention, I’m thinking…
@ Eagle:
Amen to your rant. Currently reading Young Restless & No Longer Reformed. Subtext: God’s Glory is his love, not his power.
Beakerj wrote:
A vital point!
Not even God’s law trumps his love, come to think of it.
In other news, tonight’s thrown-together* sweet and sour lime and coriander couscous worked marvellously. Perfect accoutrement to the sea bass Lesley picked up in Alloa market the other day.
* I.e., I didn’t entirely know what I was doing. Which is the best kind of cooking imho.
dee wrote:
As you know, I’m sympathetic to YEC but I do not like Nouthetic counseling / biblical counseling.
Favoring YEC does not necessarily equate to hating or distrusting all of science or research, or having a “Bible only” mindset when it comes to non spiritual areas and concerns of life. Some YECs may be like that but not all.
Mr.H wrote:
It’s strange to me that Calvinists would like adopt that attitude.
Many Calvinists I’ve been acquainted with, and have even been friends with online (a long time ago), and ones who I don’t know, but I’ve read their sites and blogs, have often times had a lot of intellectual pride to the point they can be intellectual snobs.
Many of them (at least the ones I used to talk to or the forums I would lurk in) loved poking fun at Independent Fundamentalist Baptists.
They think the fundies are anti- intellectuals who detest higher education, science, and learning.
The Calvinists I encountered would snicker at the KJV Only fundies who don’t believe in studying Greek or ancient Hebrew, or who chaff at studying patristic writings or church history.
I would expect IFBs and Word of Faith sorts of Christians to be against standard psychology, psychiatry, and medications used to treat mental health problems.
IFBs are suspicious of anything that is not 100% Christian, Bible only, and the WoF (Prosperity Gospel) guys believe everything can be healed by faith and prayer alone and by speaking positive confessions.
But it’s surprising to see Calvinists adhere to a position that seems rather against learning and education.
I can see an IFB preacher sermonizing on the supposed evils of psychology and medications to treat depression or whatever ailment, but a Neo Calvinist?
I would think Calvinists above all people would support it, and not promote a “Bible-cures-all” attitude, which can come across as being superstitious and not realistic.
If my kitchen sink gets leaky, and I don’t know how to fix it (does it need a new washer or what?), I consult internet “how- to- fix- it” pages, or I hire a plumber, or something like that.
I don’t usually pray about something like that, or consult a preacher for it.
Mr H said,
Again, that sounds a lot like IFB, or Word of Faith/Prosperity Gospel teaching.
Why oh why would Calvinists buy into stuff like that? I would think they would run in the opposite direction.
Unless of course this has to do with Driscoll rubbing shoulders with WoF famous, wealthy preachers, such as T D Jakes.
The WoF tele evangelists get tons of money off that sort of theology. They pump out books, DVDs, conferences, charging people for this sort of thing – usually about health and healing, but some of them set themselves up to be Dave Ramsey clones (financial well-being gurus).
Pastor Rick Warren, who looks to be a good 50 – 80 pounds over weight, recently released the “Daniel diet plan.” Preacher John Hagee, who is quite large, frequently has doctors on his show to plug weight loss books.
Several years ago, Hagee even had on a wife and husband team that were promoting a series of dieting DVDs. The husband on this show, selling these DVDs, had lost ‘X’ pounds (like 40, I believe), but… the dude was still 50 – 80 pounds over weight.
It’s like, if you’re a bald guy, don’t try to sell me shampoo.
Most preachers are not experts at health, diet, beauty, etc., and I really think their primary duty (as, according to the Bible and common sense) is expounding on spiritual stuff, not giving financial or health tips.
If I want that sort of advice, I’ll tune in to “Dr. Oz” or “Dr. Phil.” Or, book a meeting with an actual medical doctor / mental health professional.
Thanks for looking into this and sharing the information. It is very sad to read what this family is going through and the way they are being misled.
Biomedical science has a lot of answers, but not all the answers. And some of the answers it has are wrong. And some of the right answers may not ever be discovered, because they don’t align with the interests of the organizations that fund biomedical research. So all of that combines to create a pretty big opening for those who want to create non-traditional cures and those who are willing to try them. Which is fine if those doing the creating are completely up front about what they’re doing. If I had a rare or difficult disease and modern medicine wasn’t treating it effectively, I would definitely look at alternative approaches. But I would expect the person offering them to tell the truth so that my family and I could make informed decisions about how best to invest our time, money, energy and hope.
@ Nick Bulbeck:
Nick, a recipe is someone else’s idea of how to fix a dish (except some pastry, like angel food). I believe in experimental cooking, which only rarely bombs (lemon shrimp with walnuts — never mix lemon and walnuts!!!!). My approach is to keep good ingredients in the shelves, freezer and frig, try to use the fresh stuff while fresh, and have fun. I use a lot of garlic, onion, mushrooms, whole grain or low carb pasta, butter, olive oil, coconut oil, apples, blueberries, walnut nuggets, chicken, kielbasa (in small amounts), crushed and diced tomatoes, broccoli, cabbage, olives (all kinds) and beans (always well rinsed to get the heavy sugar that causes gas out of them). Smaller amounts of chili powder, various cheeses, a little wine, sesame oil (preferably w/o soy), jalapeno, yogurt, capers. I make nothing that is uninteresting. Almost all low carb or slow carb, high protein. About once a year, a last minute pitch the failed experiment and go get fish, shrimp and fried okra at the local shop.
I always get compliments on my chili, soups, stir fry, and pasta sauce.
And my spouse, when she has time, is a fabulous cook, but our deal is, the one not cooking does the dishes and I hate washing dishes.
Headless Unicorn Guy wrote:
I wonder if Christians who think that way are not familiar with Bible verses such as,
For He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. (Matthew 5:45)
[God speaking:]
for every animal of the forest is mine,
and the cattle on a thousand hills. (Psalm 50:10)
Christian Bear Joke, related to your Christian cow comment:
Christian bear joke
I would just like to remind everyone here that you are commenting on and making accusations that directly impact people's lives. The lives of my wife and I to be exact. We would like the link to our blog removed and would prefer to have quotes and references to our blog and story removed–this blog was set up for our friends and family only and your critiques are not welcome. We are fighting a very serious battle against cancer and your commentaries and postings have felt quite intrusive. While I appreciate discernment, I assure everyone that we are not naive and are capable of practicing our medical decision making. We do not need your additional sleuthing into our personal affairs. Thank you. Respectfully, MW (edited by Dee) *I am not Mr Smith and posting a link directly to our personal blog does not "protect" our identity in any way.
Julie Anne wrote:
I wondered about that. I read several pages at the blog by the Smiths.
I don’t see on the blog where Mr./Mrs. Smith said they decided to try Dr. Quack on the advice of Driscoll (either directly, or indirectly from them reading Dr. Quack’s posts on Driscoll’s site), but I wouldn’t be surprised if we find that out later.
(Or, maybe that info was on there, and I missed it.)
Interesting post – There still seems to be traces on the internet linking Mark Driscoll to John Catanzaro – this below being and example.
Since the Health & Wellness Institute of Integrative Medicine and Cancer Research and webpage is up and running and Mark Driscoll, as a prominent Christian has so obviously been promoting this institute through his work, I think it reasonable for Wartburg Watch to alert people to this issue – more proactive than just removing reference to Catanzaro on the resurgence website which seems to be a way of just sweeping things under the carpet. Keep up the good work!
Reading the below, I didn’t know Christians in the USA were so keen on legalising cannabis. In my UK research institute the message is that cannabis use should be discouraged because of the risk to mental ability and also of triggering psychosis (not to mention effects on physical health),but there is also the view from some that legalisation might need to occur in the context of medical discouragement. But that is another topic…
Link: https://www.facebook.com/HealthandWellnessInstitute/posts/522740921122250
Health & Wellness Institute of Integrative Medicine and Cancer Research ¡ 18,609 like this
May 6, 2013 at 8:21am ¡
Pastor Mark Driscoll and Dr. John Catanzaro team to discuss the value of pot in a persons life.
http://theresurgence.com/2013/05/04/a-christian-doctor-s-opinion-on-pot?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+TheResurgence+%28The+Resurgence%29
A Christian doctorâs opinion on pot
theresurgence.com
According to a recent survey reported by CNN, half of younger Christians (18â29) support the legalization of recreational marijuana usage. Almost half (45 percent) have used the drug.
3Like ¡ Comment
John Catanzaro, Sherry Bibb, Riviia Ittue ViieAa and 89 others like this.
Wow. Sure sounds like possible quackery. Time will tell.
A quick comment from the mother of a mentally ill man: I believe in appropriate treatment, including meds (especially meds!) But counseling? Well, depends. Some pastors have offered excellent counseling from the Bible. Some psychs have also given excellent counsel. But I wouldn’t just assume either one of them is qualified to do the job. I want to know are they Jungian? Freudian? Behaviorists? What exactly is the world view their counsel is based upon?
Not all talk therapy, even with PhD’s in doing so, are created equal. Neuropsychology good–the rest, caveat emptor. Some good, some every bit as whacky as nouthetic.
An Attorney wrote:
Hmm⌠I know what you mean, but I’d put it differently. A recipe (when used properly) is a basic guide to a particular form of grub. For instance, my curries never worked until I discovered that you have to puree, and not just slice, the onion! But I agree that, from then on, experimenting is the most bestest way to develop flavour. Though you can get some disasters that way – carrot soup does not want garlic in it, for instance. Though it seemed like a good idea at the time.
The only downside is that I can’t always replicate my outstanding successes because I never know how much of everything I used last time!
Julie Anne wrote:
LOL. đ
Lately, too, it’s become an all-day affair.
Before the Mefferd/book stuff happened, I’d imagine their Web Scrubber guy sat around most of his work day sipping coffee and playing Angry Birds.
Bridget wrote:
Maybe my memory is mistaken, but when I was looking at some of the links about this story yesterday, I thought I saw someone (maybe in the comments?) of another blog (maybe Throckmorton’s or WTH’s) say at one point Driscoll’s church’s internet team designed a site for, or provided some kind of web site service, for Dr. Quack.
I know Driscoll had Quack’s material on Driscoll’s site, but I think it went the other way, too, in that web designers who work for Driscoll helped Quack with Quack’s site (unless I misunderstood what I saw the other day).
I have a deep, deep sympathy for the writers of the original blog. And I empathize deeply. Pain, suffering, and disease can test and crush someoneâs faith. Within the past decade I watched my Mom deal with, and fight pancreatic cancer. The only reason why my Mother survived was because it was caught early at Stage 2âŚbut she still deals with survivorâs guilt. The reason why is because she is in the minority of people who have survived a terminal disease.
My Dad has been wrestling with a Stage 3 brain tumor for the last 2 years. There has been so much uncertainty, and even my father â who was a neurosurgeon by trade (trained at University of Chicago, residency at Duke, medical training at University of Washington) feared the worse about his tumor based on his medical knowledge and 3 decade practice. He just had a MRI the other day at Stanford and so far it looks like all is well. But each MRI is an emotional roller coaster as we wait for news.
While I have sympathy for the Smithâs it also needs to be said that this was made a public issue by them. Privacy and HIPPA Laws were waived by publishing all the financial and health information on a blog. Plus it also needs to be made known that the course of treatment they took was based on the recommendation and pushing by Mark Driscoll. Last I read Mark Driscoll doesnât have a M.D. listed behind his name. He is not now, and will never be qualified to make medical recommendations unless he attends medical school, and is certified.
This needs to be raised and remembered in the bigger picture. Itâs bad enough that John Catanzaro has called into question the reputation of the Dana Farber Cancer Institute, National Institute of Health, NeoBio Lab, and Multiple Myeloma Foundation. Your name is all you have. Itâs who you areâŚand a business name that is tarnished is something that is hard to recover. From what I have read and what was claimed I (ed note): speculate if a crime has been committed. If Dana Farber is investigating this I would suggest that the NIH is also investigating as this could tarnish their reputation s well.
Given how slippery Mars Hill Seattle is about truth I would suggest that Dana Farber brings more glory to God as a secular organization in taking care of the least of these, and by living in a transparent fashion; then Mark Driscoll does in operating in a Nixonian White House mentality of âcover up, cover up, cover upâŚ.â
Itâs only Godâs name that gets trashed and dishonored in the most by Mark Driscoll. And that dishonoring of God and the fraud he perpetuates is what empowers many in the New Atheist movement as well. Many atheists are created by Christians and that must also be remembered. And that is why Mark Driscoll needs to step out of the pulpit and resign. He is not called to be a Minister of the Lord, heâs an opportunist, a Neo-Calvinst âBenny Hinnâ just in it for the money. Itâs time for Mark Driscoll to goâŚ.
Ann wrote:
Another gimmick I’ve seen is (as I said above), Christians who are trying to be the new Dave Ramsey.
There is some guy on a Christian channel where I live, his show comes on after midnight, and he is always doing money management type shows, how to get rich, etc, and he sprinkles lots of Bible verses through out the show.
He has a slick stage with professional lighting, like you see in mega churches (but not as large as their stages), where he paces back and forth preaching about money, with monitors on behind him with slick graphics.
I know WoF tele evangelists have been bilking people out of their money since forever. I don’t mean that.
I mean guys who say they are Christian who only (or 99%) of the time talk about money, investing, etc. The act as though they are financial planners to Christians.
Even the money hungry WOFs “plant a seed” types occasionally shut about about money to talk about other things, but not the financial planner guys. Their entire show is about how to invest and save, but the wrapping is church like.
You think you’re tuning in to see a guy talk about Jesus or prayer or something, but he talks about finances the whole show.
@ Daisy:
I just found the name of one of those financial planning type of guys: Gary Keesee.
His show is called “Fixing the Money Thing.” His show comes on Day Star, among other Christian networks.
@ Daisy:
You know who could have used Mark Driscoll’s internet scrubbers the most? Richard Nixon and Bill Clinton. If only that 18 minute gap wasn’t found and Monica didn’t save the infamous blue dress.
BTW…do you know how Richard Nixon got his reputation of Tricky Dick? It was given by his California US Senate opponant Helen Gaghan Douglas in the 1950’s. Glad I studied history in grad school. đ
@ M W:
First of all, please let me express my wishes and prayers for a recovery for your wife. I know the pain that you are experiencing. My daughter suffered with a large brain tumor at the age of 3 and I know how difficult it is to wade through the difficult waters of determining what medical treatment is correct and praying every day that a miracle will occur. Years later, I still feel the effects of many years of struggle.
I did not say you were naive. In fact, the focus of this post is on a different individual who may or may not be misrepresenting himself. By the grace of God, it was your words that caused this matter to be investigated. You need to know that this blog is not the only blog that links to your site. Others are concerned as well.
I wish you had published a personal blog but, instead, you published a public blog. People from around the world can access your words. I also need to tell you that your website has been accessed by others who are looking into this matter.
Have you considered making your blog a private access, password needed blog. Perhaps you might consider taking it down until you can protect your site.
I must admit to a dilemma. I have quoted your words. It was your words that caused us to investigate the situation. We always link to our sources. We never quote someone without providing a link to what they have said. It is vital that our readers know that we are not making up a story.
I will make one concession, I had planned two more posts on this matter. I will only do one further post which I will publish tonight in which i focus primarily on the role of Mark Driscoll in promoting his naturopath.
Then I shall move onto a different subject. If you see the flow of this blog, as we move on, in general, the focus moves on as well. We will revisit this subject only when Dana Farber makes their final announcement on the matter, when Washington State resolves this matter with the naturopath, or if Mars Hill has anything to say. When that occurs, we will not reference you.
If there is anything that I have quoted which is misquoted in any way, please let me know and I will rectify that immediately. In the meantime, I will continue to remove the actual name of your family. It provides one layer of protection for you.
I know this probably doesn’t mean much but I want you to know that I feel for your struggle. Your oncologist, Dr Kaplan, is highly respected and I know he has your best interest at heart.
MW wrote:
I also want to assure you that we are not sleuthing into your private affairs. In fact our attention is focused on other individuals who are not related to your family.
@ Eagle:
We all must make this a matter of prayer. Please pray for Eagle’s Dad.
Jace wrote:
It is obvious that you are here to defend someone. You have never commented on this blog before so your comment is focused on someone whom you admire.And nowhere did i use the word “Quack.”
If you look carefully, I used the individuals own website and words-not something made up. I then investigated his stated claims. Dr Throckmorton and I contacted many people.
Jace wrote:
Jace, if you want to make a difference, read a blog to understand what is going on. Your comment is silly and ill informed and you do your subject more harm than good. Most of us are Christians, bless your heart!
@ An Attorney:
And for the woman who was being treated by Driscoll’s naturopath.
K.D. wrote:
I am self-employed and business owners are my primary clients. The business owners who are the loudest about proclaiming their status as believers are the WORST clients. I avoid them as clients if at all possible. I have learned the hard way they will have unrealistic expectations, continually try to talk down my fees, be overly critical, and will pay late and sometimes try to wiggle out of payment in full.
Jace wrote:
My Dad’s family is from Western Montana, actually my family has its history go back into the days Montana was a territory. My great grandmother dealt with arthritis and had problems getting medical treatment, remember this was in the 1930’s-1940’s (IIRC). So a pseudo industry popped up in Montana where you could take your loved one to a radon mine and they would sit around in a mine shaft for an hour or two and receive “treatment” just by breathing in air with radon particles. My grandmother took her mother to a radon mine for years becuase her mother wanted her to. My grandmother hated doing it, and felt like the pseudo science radon industry took advantage of her mother’s hopes, illness and desires…and played off them. When I was growing up as a kid my grandmother still talked about all the money wasted and what a shame it was.
These mines are still around today in Boulder, Montana and I would suggest people are being had at a time when they are vulnerable.
http://www.radonmine.com/why.php
Many of these people play off desperate and vulnerable people. And they take advantage of these individual at a time when they need love and support. It’s sad, and its angering. The story of John Catanzano needs to be told and told loudly…as a warning.
@ Jace:
Have your contacted the Department of Health which suspended Dr. Catanzaro last week to air your grievances? Seems like that should be your starting point, not this blog.
@ Leila:
Leila,
I require that my “christian” business clients pay up front. I had the experience, before becoming an attorney, that you describe. So I established a pay first contract. Consultants cannot afford to sue clients over failure to pay, it loses other potential clients. So demand a “retainer” fee, bank it in a “retainer” savings account, and transfer on completion of the work to your business account. And, having learned to always over-estimate the cost and get paid in advance, I most often ended up returning the overpayment with my report. As a result, I got a lot of repeat business.
Two comments not approved.
@ deb:
Deb…The Washington Department of Health is doing its job. If they didn’t feel a need to shut down his practice then they would not have done so. The public safety and greater good must be considered as more people can be hurt. But I can’t imagine that they would take such course of action unless there was some compelling reason.
@ Eagle:
Agreed. The Department of Health has obviously received some sort of complaint that they are taking seriously.
One reader banned for life for threatening email. All comments by this reader have been trashed.
Jace wrote:
Please explain what is “shady” and what is “heartless” – we can’t be reading the same blog. And don’t claim to have done “research” when all you did was look into one side of the story. As noted above, why not check with the Washington Dept. Of Health who suspended him, and the NIH and DFCI who Catanzano claimed to be working with. Dee has and posted links to the source information so we can make up our own minds. You, however, seem to think that because someone’s a medical professional they can do no wrong and immune from criticism and those who bring up legitimate criticisms of them are evil. Take a look at both sides before deciding what to think.
Second threatening email today! Good night!
dee wrote:
So sorry you have to endure that garbage. Too many sickos in this world. Since I just responded to the ‘reader’ before seeing this, please delete my response to him.
dee wrote:
There are times when I think the entire human race is descending into madness.
@ dee:
I referred to the guy as “Dr. Quack” in 2 or 3 posts. Maybe that is where the confusion comes in.
“Quack” is easier for me to type than “Cranzition,” or “Cransition,” or whatever the guy’s name is.
My question to the Mars Hill crowd is the following…. Paul Petty and Bent Myer are Christians also. Do they matter?
@ Daisy:
Do not worry about it. He was referring to me as having said it. However, if you could see what this guy wrote to Deb, …..bonkers, totally bonkers.
@ JeffT:
Nah-I'll keep yours up. It will probably drive him nuts that he can't respond.
@ dee:
I am very sorry that either one of you is getting threatening e mails or posts. That can sometimes be unnerving and creepy (I’ve had it happen in the past). That is one reason I don’t use my real name on sites anymore.
If that guy is still reading this thread: not everyone who participates on this blog is Christian. Some are, some are former Christians (who may identify as atheist or agnostic).
I’m not really sure what I am. I’m somewhere between Christian and maybe agnostic. I don’t even know if ‘agnostic’ quite fits. Anyway.
Though all that may be moot, as I am unaware of what teaching in the Bible says that Christians are supposed to stick their heads in the sand regarding fraud, sin, wrong, or evil.
Christians are supposed to be the salt of the world, and a light in the darkness.
Dee/Deb:
If the threats are of bodily harm to your or your family members, please determine if you can identify the locality and refer those emails to the PD or Sheriff in those areas. It is a crime in almost every state, and there is a federal statute as well, to make a threat of bodily harm, and depending on the circumstances, it can be a felony.
My hunch is that the banned “atheist” isn’t an atheist. He’s some kooky Calvinista trying to teach us a lesson about why we shouldn’t critique Christian leaders.
@ linda:
I agree that there not all therapists are created equal. (Although I don’t know of any modern therapists who describe their theoretical orientation as “Freudian!”) I’m thinking especially of therapists in the humanistic-existential school – very post-modern, very ineffectual. CBT is also a mixed bag and, in my opinion, a useful but incomplete way to approach therapy. (I would mix some psychodynamic and systems and include CBT as/if needed).
It’s important to note, however, that despite popular belief there are “scientific” bases behind so-called “talk therapy” (which is much more than talk). The best clinicians use evidence-based practices, which is about as cutting edge as you can get in any healthcare field.
Also, it’s worth nothing that in psychology, PhDs are usually research/academic-focused while PsyDs are clinically-focused (ie actually working with patients in a clinical treatment setting). PhDs are good for doing research that informs clinical practice, but PsyDs are more specifically trained for actual clinical work.
Daisy wrote:
You make a really good point! I agree – many Calvinistas seem to be focused on intellectual matters and give much attention to knowledge and learning, and being on the cutting edge of whatever field you’re in (theology, art, etc.). So you’re right – why on earth would they gravitate to quack doctors or nouthetic counselors?
Eagle wrote:
I agree, the Department of Health is doing its job. It’s important to keep in mind that Dr. Catanzaro has 20 days to request a hearing and contest the charges. The 20 days has not yet expired so we don’t know Dr. Catanzaro’s “side of the story” of even if he has one. It’s premature to “try Dr. Catanzaro in The Wartburg Watch” and jump to conclusions (even if such conclusions may ultimately be correct) before the Department of Health has completed its investigation.
http://www.bothell-reporter.com/news/242811021.html
Joe wrote:
So, by calling the Dana Farber Cancer Institute, are you saying I “tried him?” If you read what i wrote, I was careful to report what was said. Also, how many people believe that OJ Simpson was guilty of a crime? I think many are yet he was tried and found innocent.
dee wrote:
Your reporting what was said is hearsay because it is based not on your personal knowledge but on another’s statement not made under oath. It is called hearsay evidence. You could contact the Washington Department of Health (WDH)and inquire whether you could submit to them, for their consideration, the information you obtained about Dr. Catanzaro. The WDH could then follow-up with Dr. Catanzaro and the Dana Farber Cancer Institute, as they deem appropriate.
@ Joe:
What are you implying, Joe? That neither I, nor anyone else, can make an evaluation about a public website based on what we read there and what we ask another institute about a claim unless it is vetted legally and stated under oath? That would be absurd. TWW is not a court and is not trying anyone. Why does it sound like you are expecting them to only discuss information that has been gathered under oath?
Joe wrote:
Not said, but written. And this is an example how churches get away with calling this stuff “gossip.” Frankly, I had to shake my head in dismay at what you had to say. “Shhhhhhh, don’t say anything….”
Bridget wrote:
Because the information that i posted is “inconvenient.”
@ dee:
In fact, it is fascinating. So, lets say someone has cancer and a certain megastar pastor says that a Dr. Vidalia is awesome which, BTW, is hearsay as well. It might even be gossip but, because it is “positive” it is deemed totally cool, almost as cool as cage fighting.
So, prospective patient X checks it out with Dana Farber and they say or write something similar to the statements we obtained. I guess they should just go on ahead and drop untold bucks on Dr Vidalia since we only listen to “good” hearsay reports and we should sit back and wait for “authorities” investigate the not so good hearsay reports. Gotta love it.
@ dee:
Talk about plugging your ears!
Does Joe only listen to “authorities” and people “under oath?” If so, how odd. I can’t believe that he does. I hope he does some thinking for himself, investigating good and bad reports he might hear on important subjects. The good report can be as untrue as a bad report . . .
Joe should not comment on your site. His comment is only “hearsay” or “lay (non-expert) opinion, also inadmissible in a court of law. So he erred, by his own standard, in commenting on TWW!!!! Confess, repent and reform yourself Joe!
An Attorney wrote:
Now, now, An Attorney, you have read at this site for many years. You forgot the obvious “gospel” application. Since he is defending the “gospel whoever” in this situation and he likes the “gospel whoever” in this situation, his comments are valid. If one does not like his “gospel whoever” or knows something negative about his “gospel whoever” that is obviously hearsay.
Bridget wrote:
Of course not. He listens to those he deems experts and he will act on those decisions.
What he has trouble with is believing that I (along with Warren Throckmorton, contacted Dana Farber. Dana Farber has obviously responded. None of this convicts him in a court of law, however. I will be fascinated to see how this plays out. I would assume they “authorities” will also make their own inquiries. There are others out there who are also making further calls, looking at further claims.
If Catanzaro is shown conclusively to have misrepresented himself and if he is shown to have given drugs in any sort of illegal practice situation, i certainly hope that Mark DRiscoll will be the man he claims he is and , to riff off the OT exodus “Let his people know.”
@ Bridget:
@ An Attorney:
This has been a most stressful time for Deb and me as I am sure it has been for Dr. Throckmorton.
Years ago, we were made aware of an incident at a former church which I knew, right from the start, would change my life and relationships forever. It did. It was terribly stressful. Thankfully, I have some dear friends who walked through it with us. The young man, who we chose to believe over the church leadership, has turned into a wonderful, smart, savvy young adult and is now engaged to a lovely Christian young woman.
As I watch his life proceed successfully, personally, professionally and spiritually, I thank God everyday that He led me to defend the veracity of this young man’s account when he was a young teen. I believe that our willingness to take it on the chin contributed to this happy and wonderful outcome. Sometimes, we have to choose who to believe. I know we chose right.
I do not know why God presented this situation to the three of us (Julie Annes has dubbed as the Dweebs đ ). However, the minute I read Warren’s post I knew something was off as he reported on the biography of Catanzaro. It also scared me because I knew that there would be some our there that could be taken in by the biography and others who would be offended by our questioning of the “good doctor’s” credentials.
I actually hoped, really, really hoped, that the self-reported biography would be confirmed because I knew that, if it wasn’t, I would be morally obligated to do something to educate those folks who do not understand the ins and outs of clinical trials and research. Once again, because of my husband, I had an insider’s understanding, albeit rudimentary, to the world of clinical trials.
My husband was, of course, concerned about the threats, etc. But never once did he question why I needed to say something. He, along with Deb and me, often are amazed how things come our way that involve something with which we have experience.
We do not accept money from ads and we certainly do not make our lives easier with our writings.There are times, like last week, when I thought how easy it would be just to ignore this stuff and live a quiet and comfortable life. But, for some reason, I just can’t do it.
This morning Deb and I talked about 3 stories in the hopper-Bill Gothard and sexual harrassment, Bob Jones and the firing of GRACE, and some stuff coming out of SGM. Then I had a short “twitter” conversation with a woman who was excommunicated from a Unitarian Church (who’d have thunk it!). I received an email from a person in the Catholic church whose parish decided to institute church covenants. She said that our blog helped her to advise the folks locally that this was a legal contract and the priests, etc agreed and they did some education on the matter.
Then, as people who read this blog sent their kind regards and support when we received our threats, I was overwhelmed. How in the world could I step away from all of this stuff? It is so fascinating. We evangelicals are an interesting species! Also, how could I stop talking with awesome people like those who visit here. I am daily challenged by everyone to think harder and deeper.
It is people like you, Bridget and An Attorney, who give meaning to my life. I am so, so thankful.
The end of a flight of ideas….
Amen to all of this!
dee wrote:
Bridget wrote:
Wow, you had me fooled. I guess I only read the disparaging remarks like those referring to Dr. Catanzaro as Quack, Onion, Vidalia and just assumed the Wartburg Watch wasn’t interested in the Department of Health’s investigation and Dr. Catanzaro’s response to the charges. My bad!
Yes Joe, you are bad. There are a lot of commenters here with a huge credential in the sciences, in medicine, in theology, in psychology, in law, etc. And a reasonably careful reading of what Catanzaro said about himself speaks, no screams, falsehoods. And those falsehoods suggest that he is ripping people off and endangering their lives — the sine qua non of quackery. So, if you read the stuff before it was scrubbed, and did not see the problem, that is your problem, not that of the Deebs, or of the TWW community!
Joe wrote:
You can be darn tooting sure that we will be interested in the outcome, Really interested. And just so you know, getting threats like we have received has set us all on edge. Catanzaro’s affiliation with DFCI and Dr Anderson, amongst other things, have caused us to distrust an individual. I have sought out the truth in this situation far more than many other people. Probably more than most people in this world. And I have taken it on the chin for doing so. I have been threatened. Get that thru your head.
Do you know what nervous laughter is? I do. I remember the day my daughter was in surgery for hours and hours for her brain tumor. The hospital chaplain came in to comfort me. She opened her mouth and had bright red lipstick all over her front teeth. I burst out laughing. I don’t know why. I just did. But it broke the tension.
So, a mild joke, although not “gospelly righteous” is understandable in light of what we have had to put up with. “Thank you” for expressing your concern about my safety in the midst of your chastisement.
@ Joe:
Take a look at the top of the post. Catanzaro is responding. He is scrubbing his site from all mention of Dana Farber. Why? If he was truly their research partner, he should proclaim it from the mountaintop and keep their name on his site. He could prove they helped him in his studies and that they received money from him, which he collected from patients, to formulate his incredible vaccines.
An Attorney wrote:
Hoodwinking desperate people with cancer is ****ing despicable. He may not thinking he’s doing this, but why else would you present yourself in this way, if not to make yourself seem more credible? If he really thinks he’s making progress with cancer treatments & can prove it I’m sure these institutions & organisations would be glad to partner with him & endorse him. But these tactics just make him look like a snake oil salesman. I’d love for him ( or anyone) to make great strides with cancer, but…
An Attorney wrote:
Seattle is not a one horse town. It is home to a NCI designated center (like Dana/Faber) so isn’t it reasonable to conclude that there are huge credentials in the sciences, in medicine, etc. right in Seattle? So if what Dr. Catanzaro said about himself, as you wrote, “speaks, no screams, falsehoods” it seems that the falsehoods would be obvious to those with the credentials in Seattle and they would follow-up with the Department of Health, assuming they saw Dr. Catanzaro’s web site. But that’s not how the story is reported in the media.
You make a large assumption. Most reputable scientists and medical research professionals are very busy doing their research and either teaching or practice (treating patients) or both. They do not go looking for quacks claiming to be doing research when they are not! And most likely are too intelligent to be taken in by Driscoll either. So the discovery of the fraudulent biography was likely accidental — as in someone ran across something about Catanzaro on Driscoll’s or MH’s web page and thought it was interesting and read until they found the outrageous and ridiculous claims Catanzaro was making.
Joe wrote:
“So what”, Joe? Come on,yean, cut the 3-day-old carp. The more you say, the shriller you get. If there was nothing false in what this guy was pushing, why all the hysteria from defenders? Why threats of violence against folks who don’t buy his taurine fecal matter??
Wake up, old son. IN the immortal words of Foghorn Leghorn: “The boy, I say, the boy just ain’t right”.
http://www.king5.com/results?search=site&keywords=Catanzaro&searchbutton=Go
This was on our local news last night.