Herman Cain Versus Rick Perry: Who’s the Bestest Christian?

I used to say that politics was the second-oldest profession. I have come to know that it bears a gross similarity to the first.  Ronald Reagan

. gov file

courtesy of White House.gov

Once again, I hesitantly dip my toe in the murky waters of the political arena. Just to make things clear, up front, I believe that committed Christians disagree, more then agree, about various political initiatives. It is not my intent to address those concerns in this post. My only thought on this matter is to tell you all to pray and vote your conscience.

What concerns me is when political candidates attempt to assure the vote of “evangelicals.” I object to this on two fronts. One is the assumption that evangelicals are monolithic in their viewpoints. In fact, that is not longer a given. Evangelical harmony is fracturing and I believe that we are in a post-evangelical era with landmines and bodies scattered over the "born again" wasteland.

Secondly, politicians are involved in an increasingly shrill effort to convince “evangelicals” about who is really the better Christian. Once again, may I remind you of all the supposedly committed Christian folks, like Mark Sanford, who acted no differently than the garden variety pagan in their actions while in office. (Loved the “soul mate” comment).

Furthermore, I am concerned that Christians have mistakenly viewed politics as another parachurch organization. Politics is neither a church nor a prayer meeting. Capitalism is not one of the Ten Commandments, the Laffer curve is not some new witnessing tool, and the 9-9-9 plan is not the Beast standing on his head.

Jokes for those sick of politics

Digression alert: Sorry folks, I couldn’t resist. For a laugh, go to this link to get jokes on the number 666 here. I have provided a few for your amusement.

  • $665.95 – Retail price of the Beast
  • $699.25 – Price of the Beast plus 5% state sales tax
  • $606.66 – Wal-Mart price of the Beast
  • $566.66 – Costco/Price Club price of the Beast
  • Phillips 666 – Gasoline of the Beast
  • 668 – Next-door neighbor of the Beast
  • Route 666 – Way of the Beast”

Back to the post. An evangelical president will not ensure that we will have either a competent president or a moral leader. One only has to look around at some of the pastors of today’s churches to see both a dearth of leadership and morally bankrupt management.

Herman Cain declares his Christian faith, just like Rick Perry.

Herman Cain, in a story reported by the Raleigh News and Observer. 10/16/11, page 3A , says he will take on Perry for the evangelical vote in the primaries. He said “People are realizing that he (Perry) is not the only Christian conservative in the race.” Cain claims he has been a Christian since he was 10 years old. At one campaign stop, he sang a hymn to the crowd."

Cain, is a member and an associate pastor at the famous Antioch Baptist Church of Atlanta, here

“Cain, a conservative who recently said African-Americans were “brainwashed” into voting Democratic, is an associate minister at an Atlanta megachurch that has been a stronghold of liberal activism and is led by a pastor who cites Malcolm X as one of his influences.

Cain is a longtime member of Antioch Baptist Church North, which sits near the former college and home of the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr.

The church, founded by freed slaves 134 years ago, boasts 14,000 members and an operating budget of more than $5 million. For years Antioch has hosted a “who’s who” of civil rights activists as guest speakers, including Jesse Jackson and Andrew Young.

Antioch’s powerful senior pastor, the Rev. C.M. Alexander, doesn’t share Cain’s political philosophy, Atlanta clergy say. But Cain and Alexander are so close that Cain sang “The Impossible Dream” for the pastor’s 50th anniversary celebration. The Atlanta businessman-turned-presidential hopeful is well liked by many members of his church, though some disagree with his politics, Antioch pastors say.”

Herman Cain says that Jesus was killed by a liberal court.

In another story, reported by the Huffington Post, here, Cain claims that a liberal court killed Jesus.

“Cain, last December, writing a RedState column titled "The Perfect Conservative" claims Jesus as a conservative. "He helped the poor without one government program. He healed the sick without a government health care system. He feed the hungry without food stamps,” For three years He was unemployed, and never collected an unemployment check."

He goes onto describe Jesus’ death

“But they made Him walk when He was arrested and taken to jail, and no, He was not read any Miranda Rights. He was arrested for just being who He was and doing nothing wrong. And when they tried Him in court, He never said a mumbling word.

He didn’t have a lawyer, nor did He care about who judged Him. His judge was a higher power. The liberal court found Him guilty of false offences and sentenced Him to death, all because He changed the hearts and minds of men with an army of 12.”

"We must be the Defending Father and the defenders of the perfect conservative. That’s why I proudly wish one and all a very Merry Christmas!"

However, some liberals beg to differ with Cain’s representation of the liberal court that sentenced Jesus here

“Cain does not explain why he finds the Roman court that sentenced and executed Jesus to be ‘liberal,’” wrote ThinkProgress.org. “But his claim is baffling for all kinds of reasons, only one of which is the fact that liberals tend to be ideologically opposed to capital punishment while conservatives tend to favor it.”

Rick Perry is being persecuted for his faith.

In an ABC post here  we learn that “while campaigning for her husband in South Carolina Anita Perry said “We are being brutalized by our opponents and our own party. So much of that is, I think they look at him because of his faith. He’s the only true conservative. Well, there are some conservatives. And they’re there for good reasons.”

“I’ll stand by my wife. I think she’s right on both cases. My understanding is that she said I’m the most conservative candidate in the race and ‘he’s a Christian.’ So I haven’t got anything I can add to that and she’s hit me on my mark both times there.”

However, it seems to me that Perry had very little to say to his good friend, Robert Jeffress, when Jeffress condemned Mitt Romney for being a member of a cult. It seems persecution only happens to orthodox Christians from Texas.

Also, the next time I hear some rich guy, who has lived a life of relative ease, claim that he is being persecuted, I plan to make him read books about the true martyrs of the faith. This sort of proclamation is getting embarrassing.

LZ Granderdson asks some provocative questions that I think need to be answered.

LZ Granderson, who I do not believe is an evangelical, makes some of the best observations I have read about God, the candidates and politics. His comments should serve as a warning to Christians about how foolish this whole thing is getting. I want to know if any pastors out there have had the perspicacity to ask the following, as Granderson did.

In a post titled Who Does God Want in the White House LZ Granderson says here

“Cain was a guest on the Christian Broadcasting Network recently and recapped a conversation he said he had with God before entering the race.
"I felt like Moses when God said, 'I want you to go into Egypt and lead my people out.'" Cain said. "Moses resisted. I resisted. … But you shouldn't question God."

Granderson goes on to comment:

“But why aren't we questioning the candidates who make these kinds of statements the same way we would question whether God actually wanted a particular athlete to win a game?

I do believe a person's faith is personal, but I'm not the one using it to get votes. Four candidates have claimed a level of divine intervention with their campaign, which either means the creator of heaven and Earth is hedging his bets or somebody's mistaken.”

Granderson goes in for the kill.

“If I could trade places with Anderson Cooper, who is moderating Tuesday's debate, I would ask, "Now which ones of you were really called by God and which ones are hearing voices in your head?" then let them discuss among themselves.

It seems like a fair line of questioning, especially when you consider Cain is telling a particular voting bloc that he is like Moses and Perry is telling the same voters that Cain and others misheard God. Why wouldn't conservative Christians want to hear this line of questioning, since they are the sheep who are potentially being targeted by deceptive, power-hungry wolves?”

I leave it on that provocative note. OUCH!


Lydia's Corner: 2 Chronicles 8:11-10:19 Romans 8:9-25 Psalm 18:16-36 Proverbs 19:26


Herman Cain Versus Rick Perry: Who’s the Bestest Christian? — 35 Comments

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    Love the title, love the opening quote (even though I’m not generally a fan of R.R.), and your 666 jokes are pretty darned good.

    The rest (with the exception of the Granderson quote) gave me an upset stomach. (Especially Cain’s claim that black people have been “brainwashed” – yikes!!!)

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    Cain claims to be a Christian? A black man with a different political opinion from his pastor is running for president? A conservative black man with opinions not approved by the plantation owners??

    And more than one person feels they are bring led by God to run for president? (Obviously God would never lead more than one person to do something knowing that only one could win, right?)

    No need to be bothered by a quote by Reagan — there’s no one here who takes his views seriously.

    Good thing such a wide a variety of opinions are welcomed here! I’d hate to see a place where disdain and intolerance reigned.

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    Great post.

    I’m fuzzy on painkillers tonight, but wanted to get this in before it gets lost.

    I was on the political “inside” for several years, and I can say with certainty that Christianity isn’t playing a role in ANY Presidential candidate’s politics, apart from lining up the votes of gullible believers. I really wish I could sit down with all my activist conservative Christian friends and show them just how insidious the election process really is.

    For instance, “pro-life” is not a position; politicians know there is no way to repeal Roe v. Wade or get rid of abortions in this country. Seriously — they all KNOW this. ALL of them There’s no actual anti-abortion strategy or calling from God. But that’s why they love the issue so much; it guarantees a big chunk of votes, and they never have to do anything about it again.

    There’s so much more — the corruption runs so deep there is no way the Holy Spirit is hanging around any American legislative hall. And the blame lies on us, any of us who ever blindly voted on some kind of religious morality slate, which isn’t going to make a danged bit of difference on the real issues we face.

    Consider this: what if we were not allowed to know a candidate’s party or pro-life stance when we voted? How confused would we be? What issues would then become important? And how would we then judge a candidate’s worthiness for office, or determine if he or she has done a good job there?

    Food for thought, hopefully…

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    You are so wrong and it shows you have not read our words beyond a cursory glance. I will say something that will put me at odds with others. I loved Ronald Reagan. I switched my affiliation from Democrat to Republican because of him.

    But, one thing is for sure, Reagan was not an evangelical and rarely attended church. I doubt he would have gotten into the Christian wars as these two men are doing.
    Also, be careful about making judgments where your two blog queens stand today on politics. We are equal opportunity offenders. I stand by the questions raised by Granderson.

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    I liked Ronald Regan too! But it was probably because I was only 4 at the time. (laughing hysterically). He was a cute old man. And that voice! Yeah, I was boy crazy at 4. I was born in the late 70s, and so I think political figures still had their god-like attraction during that time; hollywood too!

    Now, we just sit back with our popcorn and soda and laugh at them all. They are a major source of entertainment!

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    Obama threw his pastor under the bus when people started checking him out before the election. I hope.you will write about Romney’s sacred underwear and.his god like position for his wife.

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    I have written about Mormonism in the past. The intent in this article was not to go after another religion but to clarify the issues involved in the political arena. I spent 1 1/2 years meeting with a highly place Mormon. Neither one of us budged from our faiths but developed a respect for one another.

    There are far too many issues to write about in the faith. We do not have time nor the inclination to write about those outside of orthodox Christianity.From time to time, we might mention some when it involves an intersection of our faith with another.

    However, there are other groups that do so. Might I recommend Equip.org? Also, it is fairly easy for people to google “sacred underwear” or even view You tube videos that reenact the rituals that go on the Temple.

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    Oh, I forgot to add that the best example on how to contend for the faith is found in Acts 17-Paul’s address at Mars Hill. He didn’t make fun of the various religions of that era but convincingly argued for the truth. I believe that we should show respect for other faiths while cogently arguing for the Truth.

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    “But why aren’t we questioning the candidates who make these kinds of statements the same way we would question whether God actually wanted a particular athlete to win a game?

    I do believe a person’s faith is personal, but I’m not the one using it to get votes. Four candidates have claimed a level of divine intervention with their campaign, which either means the creator of heaven and Earth is hedging his bets or somebody’s mistaken.”

    God Calls people to take steps in their lives for their personal growth or whatever plan He has for them, not necessarily because He Has Chosen them as His candidate.

    I believe in God, but I separate spiritual law from the law of the land. Most reasonable people are able to do the same, but some do harp on religion or lack thereof. Some of the blame lies with these people who want to be pandered to in the evangelical sense. I have found Cain supporters to be fiscal conservatives not hung up on social issues. Just my personal observation.

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    I have never worked even remotely close to anyone in politics, and I believe every word you wrote. I can to that conclusion simply by watching what goes on. Seems to me that it’s common sense. These days, all of these clowns govern no more than about the width of a camel’s hair from each other. What these clowns say on the campaign trail has no baring whatsoever on how they govern once in office, and that applies to ALL the candidates out there from both sides of the one main party we have.

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    Dee, It is fine by me for anyone to be whatever they are, but I’ve read enough to know that your idea of conservativism differs from mine. Everyone seems to want to invoke Reagan these days, including President BHO.

    Froggery, you said it well by saying “God Calls people to take steps in their lives for their personal growth or whatever plan He has for them, not necessarily because He Has Chosen them as His candidate.” My point exactly. Granderson’s questions assume that if more than one person claims that God has led them to get involved in the presidental race, one or more or all of them must be mistaken. That’s an unwarranted assumption, and it just makes him look ignorant and biased regarding evangelicals.

    Invisible, I agree with your astute observations that most Republican politicians merely affirm the “pro-life” position to pander to evangelicals, but they have no intention of doing anything substantial about those issues (if they even could). I don’t look to any political party or system or candidate to accomplish God’s will. Even so, I’d still vote for someone who gives lip service to things I believe in over someone who expresses their intention to advance causes I don’t believe in.

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    Hmmm, I could have sworn that the Jews wanted Jesus to be a political Messiah (overthrow the Romans and re-institute Israel as a kingdom), and He made it very clear that He was doing no such thing. And last I checked all those miracles were not a Political campaign, though the crowds certainly made it seem like one (again the Jews were confused in their interpretation of the prophesies).

    The image of Jesus setting up a buracracy to handle Miracle Requests had me chuckling. It seems to me that Mr. Cain needs some basic theology review.

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    “The image of Jesus setting up a buracracy to handle Miracle Requests had me chuckling”

    Obama has already done this.

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    I have absolutely no idea what in the world you are talking about. Prove that I am not a conservative. I think if you knew my history, you would be surprised and made to eat your words. But, I am not doing politics on this blog. So, are you saying that I am not conservative in my theology?

    As for “things you believe in,” could you please define these so I can figure out if you are discussing theology or politics?

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    Astute observations. Today, people are still looking for a political Messiah and both sides believe God is on their side. My question is this. Who is on the Lord’s side?

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    You said, “There’s no on here who takes (Reagan’s) views seriously.”

    Are you kidding? I am a big Reagan fan, too. I voted for him in my first Presidential vote in 1980.

    It’s o.k. that you don’t like him and think that Carter and Mondale would have made better Presidents, but that you presume other people don’t like him?

    It just flies in the face of the evidence.

    Reagan won 2 landslides in Presidential elections and poll after poll show that many people hold him in high regard, despite the fact that he was loathed at the time (and is still loathed, really) by the chief opinion makers in our country, the media, Hollywood, the music industry etc.

    How in the world you would think that people would not hold him in high regard is beyond me.

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    Then like most everyone else you’re just perpetuating the cycle and supporting the corruption. Real change and work will never be accomplished in government if we keep letting the same false criteria determine our votes.

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    I think Held is being purposefully provocative, if you get my drift.

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    Re the 666 jokes: in the city I grew up in, St. Petersburg, FL, there is a Christian school that is located on State Road . . . 666.

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    Funny. Did any strange Christians attempt to change the name?

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    I was interested when Perry entered the race. I believe that he gets high marks for his time in the Governor’s office in Texas.

    I am surprised at how lack luster and clumsy he has looked on the Presidential stump.

    I believe that Perry and Cain are more convictional than some of the Republican candidates, but I am not sold on either. I am not wowed by any of them. The ones that are convictional don’t seem as prepared. The ones that are prepared seem really squishy to me.

    It will be a tough choice.

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    Perry has been a disaster in Texas. Got the Lege to change the corporate tax structure in a way that was to be revenue neutral, but was not. As a result, the revenues here are chiefly sales taxes, and with a down economy, sales are down. So the state is laying off thousands of teachers and other employees, decreasing funding of critical programs like Medicaid and food assistance, etc., etc., all of which will further reduce sales and the sales tax revenue as people unemployed will have no money to spend.

    All while living in a $10,000/month house at public expense because the mansion is under renovation.

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    There is one prepared Christian candidate on the ballot. But he is half black.

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    held probably meant most of the tww fans (regulars) would not like what Reagan stood for.

    I.am still tryng to figure out how tww is not ‘doing politics’ on this blog when there have.been two politics oriented.posts quite recently.

    scratching head…..

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    Scratch your head no more. It could contribute to hair loss. This blog looks at all sorts of Christian trends. And guess what a new “Christian” trend is? Candidates declaring they are the real “Christian” in the race. And then we have men like Jeffress, FBC Dallas, fanning the flame.

    If these guys would leave out the theologizing, TWW would not have anything to say. We are not in the business of telling intelligent Christians whether they should vote for more or less government intervention. That is purely a personal choice that does not, in my opinion, constitute the Christian faith. But when people start pontificating that we should only vote for Christians, how can we not discuss this phenom?

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    $10,000 a month? Why is the manse under renovation? Also, I had no idea that the Texas economy was suffering. It is held up in other parts of the country as an economy that is in good shape. Sigh… no miracles here. And that is why I am less enamored with politics.

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    Uh oh-prepare to duck!

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    Among political scientists, former presidents, and former White House staff, there is a saying that the only true preparation for the job of president of the United States is to be the president of the United States. Nothing else actually prepares one for what the job is really like.

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    I saw a talk by Leon Penetta where he said something to the effect that the space between the election and inauguration is like a cold shower that never stops. Suddenly you get all the hidden details shoved at you like water from a fire hose and discover the reality of what you can and, a bigger deal, cannot do. At least not without a vote from Congress, a Constitutional amendment, or breaking a few dozen laws. Plus you get to find out all the commitments you have to keep that you knew nothing about. And on and on and on.

    And you get to quietly toss many if not almost all of your campaign promises out the window. A rear window where no one is watching of course.

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    When I stated that I’m an old lefty, it means left of center, not far left. There is a difference and it doesn’t make me a Marxist. I too am in a quandary. Do I endorse Tweedledum? Do I hitch my wagon to Tweedledee? Both are owned lock-stock-and-barrel by big money and have no intention of answering to the little guy. It’s already been decided by financial oligarchs who’ll occupy the oval office in 2013. Until then, they’ll indulge us in our illusion of democracy.

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    With all sincerity I respect and admire your conservatism. Back in the day before I jumped ship, I adored Reagan too. What’s not to like? He’s as amiable as Bill Clinton and as disarming as a corncob pipe.

    The other night in a flight of fancy I dreamed that Romney won. He turned traitor to his class like FDR did. He reinstated the Glass-Steagal Act. No longer could the boyz in lower Manhattan gamble with your money and then demand from you a bailout when the bets go bad.

    He stopped the further destruction of our industrial base by rewriting the tax codes so that it’s no longer worth the big guys while to close plants and ship American jobs to China.

    Then I woke up and reality set in like a cruel hangover. It ain’t gonna happen.

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    I am a mixed up conservative. Confused, not agreeing with everything, a few liberal quirks, etc. I don’t trust any politician.

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    One last thought Dee. All this is nothing new. The writer of Ecclesiastes wrote about human politics too; its hope, its futility, and its cyclic nature. The writer goes on to say that there is no satisfaction in these things.

    In contrast, the writer also goes on to say that there is genuine satisfaction in enjoying life with the one you love & that this is our portion from the hand of God & that it is to be reveled in, because the grave ends it. This is where I disagree with Lewis and others who long for “heaven” at the expense of the now. — Please note that this is NOT a disavowal of the resurrection & the life everlasting —

    I am in the Autumn of my life now and these truths make me savor every moment with the one I love because they can be cruelly torn away at a moments notice. Every hummingbird at the feeder, every hawk wheeling on the thermals along with each new cycle of the constellations makes me shout with joy that I’m still alive.

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    I love the hummingbirds at my kitchen feeders. They left about two weeks ago for their long flight to Central America for the winter.They come back in late March/early April. I believe the joy that we have in this life is merely a taste of the wonderful life to come. We should enjoy every sunrise, every bluebird nest, and wonderful people like you and others who comment here.
    We do have pain in this life and sometimes it helps to realize that, one day, even our pain and suffering will be over. And that is the joy of hope. Not to deny the beauty now but to enjoy it, knowing that some day, there will be no more tears.