Mark Driscoll: Did He Stutter?

“(I learned) ‘to love Jesus without feeling like we had a thinly veiled homosexual relationship.’" Mark Driscoll



So, there I was, valiantly trying to write a post about history, when some guy wants to discuss oral sex on my blog in response to my thinly veiled disdain for Driscoll's exegesis. And then he called me, Dee, of the public health circuit, prudish!!! This means war!!

So, I put on my most adorable clothes (as Driscoll commands) and sat down to document a little recent history. You see, Dris”cool” regularly makes comments that get him in hot water. Then, he makes like he apologizes and most Christians, especially Calvinistas, give him a pass.

Here is the problem. Each time he says something, folks seem to treat it like it is an isolated incident. We are just supposed to forgive and forget that one incident. After all, people who like tattoos go to his church. But, eventually people have to accept the fact that a lot of ones can add up to a problem.(1+1+1+1+…= Uh Oh)! Need I say Jimmy Swaggert or Ted Haggard?

Now, to make this all the more interesting, Cathy Mickels, a Seattle author, wrote an open memo on 1/12/09 to church leaders documenting, in detail, her concerns about Mark Driscoll’s statements. I first read it yesterday but that site, in the last 24 hours, removed the entire memo. I spent the last hour tracking the full memo down and found it at the site Driscoll Controversy under the well penned title,  The Death of Discernment.  LINK. I have downloaded it onto my computer in case it disappears again. Please go to this site for some in-depth documentation.

So, here is a list of some things Driscoll has proclaimed. Many are direct quotes, some are paraphrased, and a couple have brief commentary to go with them. I have tried to give the sources of each statement to help the readers research this on their own. I want to especially recognize Cathy Mickels for bringing together many of his quotes within one memo. Unless noted, the quotes are documented in her memo. Also, I may have repeated one or two comments. My eyes are starting to cross!

“It was a stand-up comedian, foul-mouthed Chris Rock, whom Mark Driscoll credits with teaching him how to preach. Mark claims this comedian was ‘a better study in homiletics than most classes on the subject’. (Confessions, p70)”.

“God creates a perfect woman who is beautiful, sinless, and naked – the same kind of woman every guy ever since has been looking for.”’ (Radical Reformission, p28).

He describes the Old Testament as ‘a redneck hillbilly comedy. LINK

“He turns the issue of circumcision found in Galatians 5 into a crude ‘cut off your pickle joke'.”

“In his book Confessions of a Reformission Rev, he thanks ‘God the Ghost’ for helping him write his book (p26).”

“He calls Jesus ‘a dude’ and uses word pictures depicting Him as ‘a prize-fighter with a tattoo down his leg’. (I think he is erroneously paraphrasing from Revelation) (Radical Reformission, p30).”

“Mark answers a question as to whether or not Jesus went ‘potty’. In response, according to Driscoll, ‘yes, Jesus went number one and number two’, but he did it ‘perfectly, apparently… never got the lid all wet. But I won’t go there, but I could and it would be funny’. What was the congregation’s response? They laughed. (Sermon: How human was Jesus, Part 2, October 15, 2006)”

In Radical Reformission, he says the following:

“(I learned) ‘to love Jesus without feeling like we had a thinly veiled homosexual relationship’ (p14).”

“One of his former pastors taught him ‘to have a relationship with Jesus that did not feel like he was my lifelong prom date’ (p15).”

Then, On Song of Solomon, he says: “ ‘Now what happens is some say “Well, we do believe in the book, and we will teach it, but we’re gonna teach it allegorically.” And there’s a literal and an allegorical interpretation. They’ll say, “Well the allegorical interpretation, it’s not between a husband and a wife, Song of Solomon, love and romance and intimacy; what it is, it’s about us and Jesus.” Really? …I hope not… If I get to heaven and this goes down, I don’t know what I’m gonna do… I mean it’s gonna be a bad day. Right? I mean seriously… You dudes know what I’m talking about… You’re like, no, I’m not doing that… You know I’m not doing that… I love Him [Jesus] but not like that.’ What was the response of the congregants? They laughed. (Excerpts from Driscoll’s first sermon on the Song of Solomon series called, ‘The Peasant Princess’ – start at 27:15)”

“‘God came to earth and he kicks things off as a bartender.”

“In a Christianity Today article titled, ‘A Jesus for Real Men’, Driscoll is quoted as saying that ‘real men’ avoid the church because it projects a ‘Richard Simmons, hippie, queer Christ’. However, according to Driscoll, ‘real men’ – like Jesus, Paul, and John the Baptists – are ‘dudes: heterosexual, win-a-fight, punch-you-in-the-nose dudes’. The article states this is the sort of Christ men are drawn to – what Driscoll calls ‘Ultimate Fighting Jesus’. 

“‘I assumed the students and singles were all pretty horny, so I went out on a limb and preached through the Song of Songs… Each week I extolled the virtues of marriage, foreplay, oral sex, sacred stripping, and sex outdoors, just as the book teaches… This helped us a lot because apparently a pastor using words like “penis” and “oral sex” is unusual, and before you could say “aluminum pole in the bedroom”, attendance began to climb steadily to more than two hundred people a week.’ “

“Mark describes his barbershop as ‘providing the finest selection of waiting area pornography in our city’. But isn’t the word finest a rather odd way of describing perverted material? Driscoll’s own young son goes with him to his barber, a flamboyant transsexual.”

“Driscoll writes that the phone rang at ‘some godforsaken hour… when I’m not even a Christian’. He said, ‘some college guy was crying’. Driscoll said that he tried to ‘muster up my inner pastor… and tried to pretend I [he] was concerned’. Since the caller was beating around the bush, Mark blurted out, ‘What have you done?’ When the caller confessed he had watched porno and masturbated, Driscoll actually asked the upset caller, ‘Was it good porno?’ As expected, the caller was left speechless by his question. Then, Mark told him, ‘Well, you’ve already watched the whole porno and tugged your tool, so what am I suppose to do?’ The caller answered him, ‘You are my pastor, so I thought that maybe you could pray with me.’ But, to the contrary, Mark wrote, ‘I did not want to pray so I just said the first thing that came to mind… Jesus thank you for not killing him for being a pervert. Amen.’ According to Driscoll, the caller was still left unclear about what he was suppose to do, so in Driscoll style, he told the caller, ‘A naked lady is good to look at, so get a job, get a wife, ask her to get naked, and look at her instead.’ (Confessions pp59-60).”

“He tells about a time of exhaustion when he snapped at the young men at his church. Describing them as a chronic masturbator, a porn addict, banging weak-willed girls like a screen door in a stiff breeze, Mark says he cussed out a poor guy, losing his mind to the point that he thinks he actually cuffed him upside the head. In a follow-up meeting, he preached to the young men about manhood, but then, in my opinion, he snapped again. (Confessions p128).”

“According to Mark, his explanation for getting their act together was ‘because you can’t charge hell with your pants around your ankles, a bottle of lotion in one hand, and a kleenex in the other’. He concluded the meeting by handing ‘each man two stones and told them that on this day God was giving them their balls back to get the courage to do kingdom work’. (Confessions p129). “

"Mars Hill began having ‘boot camps’ for men, teaching them how to get a wife, have sex with that wife… buy a house… study the Bible… and brew decent beer’. (Confessions p130)."

"Driscoll said, ‘I emailed Rick Warren, assuming that he is now so big that he must wear a cup all the time just to get through an average day.’"

“He says he was impressed with his worship leader because ‘most of the worship dudes I have heard are not very dudely… they seem to be… exceedingly chickified from… singing prom songs to Jesus’.”

“The detail the story about the attractive woman at the airport who offered him what Driscoll describes as her ‘impressive sexual favors’? It is also curious why Mark would use the language he does to describe this woman, whom Mark says was ‘Hot—like hell’. (Confessions, p128)”

He was “bragging about how ‘tough’ it was for him to preach on Lake Washington with frat guys ‘mooning my [his] church’ with ‘a backdrop of their hairy heinies’, or describing the ‘well-endowed young women passing by on a boat, lifting up their shirts’, or detailing his gross account of ‘messing my[his] pants while preaching with the stomach flu’.”

“He describe his flu ordeal saying ‘getting sent to hell would be an upgrade’. He proudly declares, ‘I crapped myself about fifteen minutes into the sermon and was left with a terrible dilemma. Do I finish the sermon and just not move much on the stage? Do I… sneak off and clean up the oil slick?’ Instead of excusing himself like a mature adult, he preached for another 45 minutes and then adds more crudity to his story and writing, ‘I tried to breath out of my mouth to lessen the stench.’ (Confessions, p88 and 176-177)


Southern View Chapel does a review of his book Confessions of a Reformission Rev LINK

They note:

  • He admits to stealing a sound system (p. 62)
  • He has a mission to ultimately grow a church of 10,000 attendees – p. 164)
  • Anyone who does not fit into that mission is dispensable (pp. 45, 63, 112, 131, 135, 148-150) or fired (pp. 146-147, 196).
  • He admits his fits of anger when not pleased (pp 99, 128, 130).


Missouri Baptist Laymen’s Association also quotes from his books LINK 

 "In its first few years, the Paradox [a secular music ministry of Driscoll’s church] hosted about 650 concerts for about 65,000 kids. We have had only a few minor problems, like the Japanese punk band that got naked during their set for no apparent reason and another band that set off fireworks during their show.” (Confessions, p.127)"

“I had grown facial hair, started cussing again (I had stopped for about fifteen minutes after I got saved), and briefly considered taking up smoking but had asthma, which kept me from achieving my full cool potential.” (Confessions p.50)

“I occasionally bought lottery tickets and promised God I would tithe if he’d let me win, but to no avail.” (Confessions, p.58)

“The Bible could end right there [in Genesis], after only two chapters, with the man and woman naked, eating fruit, and trying to fill the earth all by their happy, horny, holy selves.” (Radical Reformission, p.28)


From Sermon Index we learn: LINK

“Our church services started to stink a whole lot less. We scraped together enough money to buy some big honking speakers, and I stole an unused sound console from my old church along with a projection screen, which were sins that Jesus thankfully died to forgive.” (Confessions, p.62)

“We never paid for electricity in our office apartment because the building was illegally hooked up to the power grid and all our power was stolen.” (Confessions, p.125)

“And to top it all off, God comes to earth. He has a mom whom everyone thinks is a slut, a dad whom they think has the brilliance of a five-watt bulb for believing the ‘virgin birth’ line, and brothers who likely pummel him frequently, because even God would have to get at least one wedgie from his brothers if he were to be fully human.” (Radical Reformission, p.29)


Another section of Driscoll Controversy blog. LINK

“Here is an extract from Mark Driscoll’s sermon on humor Part 2; preached on January 13, 2008. Abstracted from the Mars Hill website. LINK

‘We’ll start at the book of Genesis, the book of beginnings, where all things begin including good comedy. The book starts with a guy marrying his sister, which is really funny unless you’re from Kentucky and then it’s too close to home. And then it moves along and God floods the earth and kills everyone except for a family headed by a man name Noah. They climb into an ark and upon exiting the ark in Genesis 9, there’s this really funny little story. Noah gets drunk and passes out naked in his tent. I mean the whole book is a redneck hillbilly saga par excellence. It’s like all of Genesis takes place in a trailer park… the whole book is filled with redneck comedy. And Noah gets drunk and passes out naked in his tent like a hillbilly redneck on vacation and when I see it, I see a guy with blue tarbs, a guy in a swim trunks and cowboys boots, drunk on moon shine with a John Deer cap, sitting around playing Texas-Hold ‘em with his uncle daddy, eating hot pockets. That’s how I see it. It’s kind of funny that after God kills everyone the one “righteous” guy passes out naked in his tent.’”
“I was recently given a recording of one of these messages, where the speaker said, “Ladies, let me assure you of this: if you think you’re being dirty, he’s pretty happy.” Such pronouncements are usually made amid raucous laughter, but evidently we are expected to take them seriously. When the laughter died away, that speaker added, “Jesus Christ commands you to do this.” That approach is not exegesis; it is exploitation.”

Continuing on in this site we read this short commentary from John MacArthur

“Song of Solomon is used by Driscoll to say God commands a wife to have oral sex with her husband. It doesn’t say any such thing. He is perverting Scripture..”

(Editorial Comment: Didn't Solomon have hundreds of wives and concubines? So, if we do what Song of Solomon says, we are supposed to have perfect marriages. End editorial)


"Let me just say our position is this—tattoos are not a sin, right. Jesus Christ is going to have a tattoo—Revelation says on his second coming. It says that down his right leg will be written King of Kings and Lord of Lords, which will be really freakish for all for the fundamentalists to see Jesus all tattooed up. I can’t wait for that day…" 

Make sure you go to a good tattoo parlour, two of the best in Seattle are actually members of Mars Hill… go in there for a biblical new covenant tattoo, is what we would recommend.” LINK 

Again from  Driscoll Controversy LINK

 Ever wonder about the type of punk rock group that plays at Mars Hill?

“So I grabbed one of our punk-rock worship teams that had recently come together, with Matt drumming, Jeff [Suffering], who had been the front man for a punk band called 90 Pound Wuss, and a college student named Luke singing and playing guitar. They have remained with our church ever since as the worship team humorously called Team Strikeforce. I also grabbed a few young college students who wanted to go into ministry, expecting I could use the experience to train them.” (Confessions, p100)"

Here are some words from this group’s Apathetic Selfish Destruction’:

“Revolt towards corruption, towards pain.

Flee existance, flee sanity.

Yeah towards denial, towards self mutilation.

Self mutilation.
 Apathetic selfish destruction, ah woe (4x)”

“The term ‘chamber-pop’ is used to describe the sound of Suffering and the Hideous Thieves. There is a large classical component to the music. I can honestly say that this is the first time I have heard a hymn sound like a drunken waltz in ‘There is a Fountain’, which is the introduction to the record, where a choir of voices slur, ‘There is a fountain filled with blood.’”

“The content of the album leaves you feeling like you are reading the journal of a man on the brink of insanity. It pulls you in and forces you to face the atrocities of the world. Suffering and the Hideous Thieves have gone beyond musical boundaries to create an album that stays with you emotionally and mentally. After listening to this album you almost feel defiled or like you are witnessing something that is just wrong. Its mix of beauty and repulsion, glory and damnation, and comfort and hopelessness, leaves the listener at a loss.”


From TWW’s post called Mark Driscoll- Two Hour Theologian and Repristinizer of Patriarchy LINK

“It is not uncommon to meet pastors' wives who really let themselves go; they sometimes feel that because their husband is a pastor, he is therefore trapped into fidelity, which gives them cause for laziness," Driscoll wrote. "A wife who lets herself go and is not sexually available to her husband in the ways that the Song of Songs is so frank about is not responsible for her husband's sin, but she may not be helping him either.’” ( This is the unofficial verse of TWW and is the reason why we call ourselves the glamorous bloggers. We promise never, ever, to be dressed in anything less than Talbot's level of clothing when we blog. You can count on us to hold up the standards for blogging.)

“He claims to have prepared his sermon in 2 hours! Not only that, he noted that he did so while watching a Mariners Game on television!”

“Women will be saved by going back to that role that God has chosen for them. Ladies, if the hair on the back of your neck stands up it is because you are fighting your role in the scripture.”



From TWWs Mark Driscoll-Narcissistic Cowboy or Knight Errant LINK

“In Revelation, Jesus is a prize fighter with a tattoo down His leg, a sword in His hand and the commitment to make someone bleed. That is a guy I can worship. I cannot worship the hippie, diaper, halo Christ because I cannot worship a guy I can beat up.”(the entrie quote

  • “He, who was not a student at the college, threatened guys in a dorm setting who lived on the same floor as his then girlfriend, now wife.
  • He drove 600 miles round trip to make sure his girlfriend had arrived at her college because she “forgot” to call him as she had promised.
  • He faces the front door in restaurants and puts her against the wall to protect her in case something “bad goes down”
  • He censors her email so she doesn’t get bad emails.
  • He seems to convey that physically assaulting members of his staff and leadership is normal.
  • He needs to worship a Jesus that he cannot beat up.
  • Jesus has tattoos, a sword and is committed to making someone bleed.
  • Questioning a pastor is a sin and he will suspend your membership privileges if you question him.”

And, of course, from our recent post,

“So, what story do you have about the most effeminate anatomically male worship leader you’ve ever personally witnessed?”

“Without blushing, Paul is simply stating that when it comes to leading in the church, women are unfit because they are more gullible and easier to deceive than men. Before you get all emotional like a woman in hearing this, please consider the content of the women’s magazines at your local grocery store that encourages liberated women in our day to watch porno with their boyfriends, master oral sex for men who have no intention of marrying them, pay for their own dates in the name of equality, spend an average of three-fourths of their childbearing years having sex but trying not to get pregnant, and abort 1/3 of all babies – and ask yourself if it doesn’t look like the Serpent is still trolling the garden and that the daughters of Eve aren’t gullible in pronouncing progress, liberation, and equality.” (Editor's Comment-So, are the guys who encourage this stuff not easily deceived?)

From ExMinistries LINK

“It’s a Jay-Z soundtrack kind of day. Watched his NY show this weekend – I know he says bowling words but man the guy is a genius”


From the New York Times, LINK  Iin an article titled “Who Would Jesus Smack Down” we read:

“An “Under 17 Requires Adult Permission” warning flashes before the video cuts to evening services at Mars Hill, where an anonymous audience member has just text-messaged a question to the screen onstage: “Pastor Mark, is masturbation a valid form of birth control?” Driscoll doesn’t miss a beat: “I had one guy quote Ecclesiastes 9:10, which says, ‘Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with all your might.’ ”

“Driscoll is adamantly not the “weepy worship dude” he associates with liberal and mainstream evangelical churches, “singing prom songs to a Jesus who is presented as a wuss who took a beating and spent a lot of time putting product in his long hair.”

“The mainstream church, Driscoll has written, has transformed Jesus into “a Richard Simmons, hippie, queer Christ,” a “neutered and limp-wristed popular Sky Fairy of pop culture that . . . would never talk about sin or send anyone to hell.”

“Driscoll told the congregation that he asked advice on how to handle stubborn subordinates from a “mixed martial artist and Ultimate Fighter, good guy” who attends Mars Hill. “His answer was brilliant,” Driscoll reported. “He said, ‘I break their nose.’ ” When one of the renegade elders refused to repent, the church leadership ordered members to shun him. One member complained on an online message board and instantly found his membership privileges suspended. “They are sinning through questioning,” Driscoll preached.”

A reader, Jean Seldon, has told me that I am not following the Bible because I said I liked Dwight from The Office. Another favorite character, earning me, I am sure, eternal condemnation from Ms Seldon, is Stanley. Here is a montage, including the never to be forgotten statement, "Did I stutter?" And that is how I end this post. Driscoll is not stuttering. He is speaking loud and clear. My question is this. Are his admirers deaf?



Lydia's Corner: 1 Kings 3:3-4:3 Acts 6:1-15 Psalm 126:1-6 Proverbs 16:26-27


Mark Driscoll: Did He Stutter? — 90 Comments

  1. Again, why is he always making comments about how not gay he is? Anybody tell him he could take off that young Mickey Mouse shirt, for starters. More serious non-jokey comments to come. but I’m a clown. So gimme a break peeps! Haha

    Dee, I’m shocked that you had all of these statements and links. Man, do you do your homework! I’d totally fail!

  2. @ Dee: Wow, I didn’t realize that Talbots had started making Star Trek t-shirts – gotta get some for myself! 😉 (Though I’ve gotta wonder why they haven’t done some kind of licensing deal with Donatella Versace… ;))

    Honestly… I’m kinda laughing to keep from crying – and wonder why on earth more people didn’t pick up on that comment about Driscoll being “offered sexual favors” when he posted it?! That alone says to me that the guy is out of control. His summation of Genesis (and those hilbilly/redneck “jokes”) is something I hadn’t seen before – I thought I had gotten accustomed to his crassness, but clearly, he never stops coming up with new ways to act like a 5th grader. (Except that I think most 5th graders are more emotionally mature!)


  3. To clarify: I saw his comments about being offered sexual favors a couple of days after he posted them (they were later removed from his blog), and was stunned that he actually has a job as a “pastor.” (Still am, for that matter.)

  4. Pingback: Mark Driscoll’s ‘morality’ | Civil Commotion

  5. Have you not seen Star Trek with princess seaming? Also, they make a color coordinated line of plumbing supply line.
    As for the comments, I had more but I couldn’t verify a couple of them although I know he said them. Will add them when I nail the source.

  6. Numo
    Glad you are chiming in on this. Isn’t it interesting how things keep getting deleted from his blog and others. He must need to keep a full time guy on deleting things for him. His elders are too bust sticking their heads in the sand.

  7. I still say Driscoll looks like a cross between Luther & Martin Borman (the fuhrer’s right hand man in the bad old days).

    How is it that with all these macho dominate types, they all seem to recoil in horror at any male/male intimacy as if it’s proof positive of homosexual leanings?

  8. @ Muff: you need to check out the Church for men post on how to “practice ‘safe hugging’ in church.” (i.e., when a man hugs a man, there are ways to make sure that your genitals don’t touch the other person’s genitals.) And no, I am NOT making this up!!!

    Read and be amazed. I know it looks like a parody, but it isn’t. The whole site is just nuts – communion “for men” (men like non-sissified communion services) and so on.

    I just don’t understand the intense fear surrounding friendship and expressions of affection, and I wish these guys would take some lessons from other cultures where men are OK with hugging and kissing their friends and relatives. Granted, a lot of those cultures are overly macho (Italy, Latin American countries), but they view our scaredy-cat attitude toward physical affection as being cold and fairly incomprehensible.


    @ Dee: how about a jewel neckline Trek shirt?! 😉 (I kid, I kid – I can’t wear the “girly”-cut ts anymore, because they’re generally too small for middle-aged women. So I have to go elsewhere for my “glamorous” duds.)

  9. @ Dee again: on that Comment MD made on the woman offering him sexual favors – there was more, about women sticking notes *in his pockets* during/after church, asking him to hook up with them.

    I about dropped my teeth.

    Surely there’s *some* way to recover some of these posts, via the Internet Archive’s Wayback Machine? They must be out there in some form or other.

  10. Numo
    I will check into it. There is one other question that I have. He says a man with a machete rushed the stage/pulpit a few years back. I cannot find any police reports. Anybody out there know how I can get documentation on it?

  11. Numo
    He has said it on multiple occasions. This happened during a church service. But, I can’t get anyone to tell if they saw it. I can’t find it in local papers.

  12. Here is a quote from a blog called Persiflage
    October 8, 2006
    – a man attending the evening service, ran onto the stage and attacked Driscoll with a machete

    Who was the man, was he arrested, was Driscoll hurt. Where is the info?

  13. Numo

    It is mentioned on all sorts of blogs as a “fact.” But, I cannot get any info. I am about to call Seattle and try to track down a police report.

  14. Numo

    One would think it would have been in the papers. If a guy wielding a machete got near a pastor in a pulpit, it would have been front page news around here. Maybe it happens so frequently in Seattle they don’t care? I just keep googling.

  15. I believe you. I really think it might be a non-event, something that happened in his mind, not in real life.

    There was a tango musician in Argentina – Astor Piazzolla – who made highly controversial “new tango” music starting in the late 40s. Back in the late 80s and into the 90s, he became something of a celebrity on the “world music” circuit, and … he told the Washington Post that someone tried to set him on fire, back in Buenos Aires, because they were so incensed at him for what he did to tango.

    Now, people *do* get into physical fights over tango sometimes (in AR), but a friend of mine – music journalist – tried to find actual information on this incident and never, ever found a thing.

    Could have been something that Piazzolla made up. He’s gone now, so we’ll never know.

    At any rate, this claim about the guy with the machete sounds suspiciously like the bit about being set on fire.

  16. “Women will be saved by going back to that role that God has chosen for them. Ladies, if the hair on the back of your neck stands up it is because you are fighting your role in the scripture.”

    Naw, Mark… If the hair on the back of my neck is standing after you said that ish, it’s because I’m two seconds from rushing the pulpit and wailing on that arse. It might not the Christian thing to do AT ALL, but surely ‘twood give me pleasure seeing you get beat up by a woman who is sick and tired of your froggle-noggle BS! THOSE are fightin’ words.

    Mark you will be saved by shutting the H up! Ooooh! Please God don’t ever let me near this dude. I will have him in fetal position sucking his thumb with a bottle of Jack.

    Somebody please tell me this dude does not abuse people? I’m gonna say it, y’all are going to hear about Mark getting locked up in the near future.

    All these comments he has made are so vile and disgusting. Dude is a ticking time bomb and the SBC will sink with him. I can’t believe people police my words the way they do in defense of these arse-clowns!!!

    Sung Like Pink: this used to be a fun house! But now it’s full of evil clowns. It’s time to start the count-down… And take this sucker down, Down, DOWN! 5…4…3…2…1!

  17. “Each time he says something, folks seem to treat it like it is an isolated incident”

    I am not done reading the post yet….but this sentence is KEY when dealing with Driscollisms. It is uncanny how this is so true.

  18. About my comments: i have to reel it in sometimes.  I can really get outta hand with my humor or I just know that what I find funny might not be to another.  But I’m single and spend most of my time alone.  Between dancing in the mirror thinkin I’m Beyonce, watching tv and reading blogs, I’m cracking myself up!  I was also an only child for six years.  I guess I’m tapping back to those times again where I entertained myself.  Please ignore me if you need to.  I’m not that gracious as I should be these days towards stupid commenters, or teachers.  I spent the last two years listening to the worst crap in the world.  I’m so over it.  It would never be out of line to tell me I’m not being kind or charitable– more than likely, I’m not and am not trying to be.  Just the raw honest truth.  You just get sick ad tired of being sick and tired of stupidity and abusive leadership and other so-called christians.   Really. So I use humor as therapy.

  19. ..and if I say something, no need to make apology for me cause I’m sure I aint stutter. Lol

  20. At a Desiring God conference a few years back after one of his big vulgar tirades, he acted all sheepish and apologized (again)) but then said, “Every word that comes out of my mouth when preaching is from the Holy Spirit”

    This guy blasphemes so much that that I actually fear for him. Teachers of the word are judged more strictly. (James)

    Thanks for putting this together. Now, we have a go to place for people who might hear one thing and wonder about him. We can say, this has been going on for years and this is how bad it is. Read here.

  21. “He must need to keep a full time guy on deleting things for him. His elders are too bust sticking their heads in the sand”

    Oh yeah, his “elders”. the new guys he hand picked after staging a coup to take over the church from the old ones and rewriting the bylaws to make him more powerful.

  22. Dee–

    Also, to note: If your girl Jean there was following the Bible, she wouldn’t be on this blog. Period.

    Speaking of following the Bible, personally, I might follow the Bible and get all dressed up an go throw myself on some rich mans feet on the threshing room floor cause courtship never worked for because like Ruth and Naomi I need some help because THE RENT IS TOO D@MN HIGH ROUND HERE! I need food on the table, a roof over my head and money in my pocket! Let the church say….!

  23. Lin–

    Really? At tge conference in front of EVERYONE? What did they say to excuse him?

  24. Mars Hill is probably like most mega churches and has tons of security. He might even have a body guard type. Most of them do. I doubt very seriously one could get into the church walk all the way to the worship service holding a machete of all things and NOT be noticed. I mean, where does one hide a machete? In your windbreaker? Ouch.

    Driscoll and Ergun Caner have so much in common.

  25. NLR, I watched the clip of him preaching from DG conference. It was several years ago. He said it. Every word of his preaching is from the Holy Spirit.

    The Reformed guys give him a huge pass. Acts 29 is a big deal and Driscoll gets the credit. It is all about business and they want his followers as part the bigger Reformed movement in order to sell more books, conference tickets, etc.

    I have been wondering for a few days now with all the SGM stuff and Mohler and those T4G guys watching CJ’s back if perhaps a plan for a larger Reformed quasi denomination may not be in the works. I do know they are really building a “brand” for some reason. In a way, it is already operating like one. And I know many in the SBC are really sick of them all. Just thinking out loud.

  26. Hmmm… Interesting, this branding. People here, NoVA/DC, are getting all hyped up about Acts 29. Lucky I’ve been studying and was like no way, Hosea!

    Well, I’m off to bed but will catch up with yous guys tamarra. Yall keep me sane and fill my head with such good stuff. I have really needed people like you.

    BTW, I think the atheist guy should come back. I liked him and he was given me a real heart for atheists ad not being so repulsed by them. He’s a nice man. Smart too, even though we’d disagree.

  27. “The Silence. Am I the only one who thinks it is weird that nothing is being said on all the huge christian blogs about this? Nothing in support. Nothing of rebuke. Just silence. Nothing on Challies. Nothing on TGC. Nothing from the T4G guys. Nothing from World magazine or Christianity Today. Maybe nothing should be said. Maybe something will be said at a later date. But, the silence is strange.”

  28. Anon–

    I went and read Matt’s blog. Did you see those comments? These people disgust me! They ALL think it’s overblown and that it was okay for Driscoll to bully effiminate men. I can’t believe the excuses they used. Even this one guy said oh, well, all guys do that to each other. That made me flaming mad! I can’t believe the sorry piece of junk they accept as pastors these days and then they defend these heartless idiots. It burns me UP!

    I am praying that the Lord would bring Mark to his knees and bring about true humility in him, and all those who support his bullying, his misogyny, his perversions and everything else. I pray that the Lord, like a consuming fire, would do away with this foolishness perpetrating as the Gospel from clearly someone who can’t possibly know the true Christ. Afterall, his Jesus has tattoos and beats guys up and stuff. What an idiot! I feel sorry for his wife. She is married to one of the dumbest men I’ve never met. I have no compassion for Driscoll. There’s no need to even guess at it. He hurts other people, badly, ridicules them and we’re supposed to feel sorry for him? I do not. I want his chops busted and him out on his butt. He deserves nothing more.

  29. NLR

    If you read the comments that Driscoll made about his dealings with her, I would say that we need to be in prayer for her. His statements are a bit bizarre. He threatening to beat up guys on her college dorm floor who had never done anything to warrant such actions. This is a worrisome action and portends poorly for the future.

  30. @ Dee: let alone how she must feel when he boasts about women offering him sexual favors. That really got my goat; still does.

    I truly feel for her and for their children.

  31. Hi Dee,

    While I don’t have a comment regarding the content of your post or the comments (sorry, I didn’t have time for a full read today, just a quick skim), I would like to go way off topic and comment on your title. [getting on soap box] As someone whose family is affected by stuttering (my wife and son both stutter), I do wish people would not use the line “Did I stutter”. It is most often used poorly and does not put the problem of stuttering in the best light. People really need to be more sensative to those who stutter. If you are unfamiliar with the problem I would highly recommend watching “The King’s Speech.” [getting off soap box] I know you didn’t mean anything by it. But people do need to be made aware that such things can be hurtful. Thank you for allowing me to go off topic.

  32. Citation Squirrel

    You said “sorry, I didn’t have time for a full read today, just a quick skim.” and then went on to discuss the stutter comment. I think if you had read to the end, and watched the video, you might have begun to understand the intent of the title of this post.

    Firstly, I did see the King’s Speech and loved it ! He did have a true impediment. I am now starting to volunteer with severely handicapped children, many of whom are unable to speak. I am very aware and sensitive to such issues. I am a long time nurse, have a daughter who suffered with a brain tumor and a friend who has a handicapped child. I am not flippant about handicaps.

    However, if you had read to the end of the post, as well as followed a series of comments from a Ms. Jean Seldon who claimed that I was unBiblical because I quoted, a number of posts ago, from a show on TV called The Office, you might see where this comment came from.

    There are several Office episodes that are considered “historic” for those of us who follow it, which many on this blog do. Stanley, in the Office, one day made a comment out of annoyance in which he emphatically said, Did I stutter? In this, he meant that he had made himself heard loud and clear.

    Everyone of us stutters on occasion. If you read a book, the dialogue might contain a statement such as ” The heroine was so surprised that she stuttered her response. The author of that book is merely reflecting what many people do when surprised or scared. That sort of stuttering is not an impediment but a normal reaction.Under duress, I am known to stutter a bit myself.

    If you go back through the comments a couple of days you will see that one of our readers, I think NLR, stated that her favorite episode was the Stanley, “Did I stutter” episode. I included a clip from The Office in which Stanley made his now famous comment at the end of this post to which you refer.

    The title served a secondary purpose which was to show Ms. Seldon that it is indeed possible to take a secular program and use it in context of a discussion. She said that we, as Christians, are not allowed to watch that sort of program.

    So, in closing, the context of this post title was wrapped up in several issues. There is the impediment of stuttering that was well represented by The Kings Speech. Then there is stuttering that occurs with all people in certain situations. Context, just like in reading the Bible, is key to this situation.

    I am sorry that you took it as a dig at the impediment of stuttering. I wish English had two different terms for this-one for the impediment and one for the everyday human tendency to stutter in certain venues. Since there isn’t, I hope you understand better the context of my remark.

  33. Dee,

    I have been reading your blog for a few months now and do not think that you are the kind of person who would use such a phrase inappropriately. I apologize for “hijacking” your comment section as I did. I just wanted to raise public awareness.

    Have a good weekend.

    BTW, nice redesign on the web page.

  34. JT

    Here they are. I may do a post on this. Still trying to figure out what sort of church that she attends. I am betting IFB but who knows?

    Submitted on 2011/07/27 at 03:58 pm
    Dear Dee:
I could not find a place to e-mail a comment on your 2010 post of “Binding Satan” so I will take this post to place my thoughts.
    You seem to be a very discerning person, with apparently a lot of knowledge due to research, reading, etc.
    What I found amazing in your post was your quotes from a character (who you label your favorite character) in the TV Show “The Office.” I don’t watch the show, but I also do my research. I cannot understand why a show that displays sexual immorality, homosexuality, coarse language, sexual innuendo is such a hit with “Christians.” I cannot find a scripture in the Bible, unless the poor excuse of ‘living under grace’ or ‘being relevant’ is used, that can justify this sort of viewing. Is this not the world? I would appreciate immensely if you would take some time and search scripture to let me know where in scripture we are encouraged to this sort of entertainment? I can find countless scriptures that advise differently i.e. have nothing to do with the evil deeds of darkness, set nothing vile before your eyes, think on what is pure, holy, etc., do not love the world or anything in the world, etc, etc. For the life of me I cannot even imagine sitting down with Christ and watching and laughing at this behavior for which He died. It seems as if ‘Christians’ believe that there is some safety with the TV screen even though most of them wouldn’t allow this behavior in their own home let alone in their presence. “Avoid even the appearance of evil.”
    I look forward to your answer.
    IN Him, 
Jean Selden

    Thank you for your honest response. I have to agree with you as I did give you an ‘impossible task,’ as my question to you was how you could line your viewing habits up with scripture. I did not ask for your opinion, nor does my opinion matter. We are dealing with the issue of good versus evil. My challenge to you was to view you behavior in light of God’s Holy Word. Paul states that everything is permissible, but not everything is beneficial. Where in scripture does it tell us to ‘sit in the seat of mockers’ and connect with what the world does in order to spread the gospel. Your excuses for your tv viewing fall flat. You insinuation that I might be like the hypocrite on the Office was quite a stretch. I have never been accused of being a hypocrite. I am fully aware of my capacity of any sort of sin, but believe that God commands us to avoid all sin, to test all things and to cling to what is good. There is nothing good about The Office. It is the world’s view of society’s behavior and Christians, in frightening numbers, are laughing along with them.
    I would like to make my statement again but in a question format–Would Jesus sit down with you and watch this program or any other tv sitcom that mocks Christians, laughs at sexual immorality, and makes light of homosexual behavior?
    The Church has lost the fear of the Lord and that is where wisdom begins. It is a sad day when someone who spends hours exposing others sins doesn’t feel an obligation to rise above the riffraff of this world.
    I hope you will take this opportunity to stop defending yourself. There is no excuse for what you do in the sight of a Holy, awesome, God. We are told to be Christlike. We are to be like Him. That is what impacts the world–not sidling up with them in their viewing of sin and laughing at it and using it as an excuse for witnessing. You seem to think that the Word of God and the Holy Spirit are lacking in the ability to convert souls. They are and always will be more than enough. Our impact on this world is not being like them, but unlike them with love.
    If you would like to respond to me with Scriptures to support your viewpoint, I would love to reason with you.
    Otherwise, I hope that you will take this time to ask youself if anything that I have said is right and maybe God might be wanting you to raise the bar.
Jean Selden

    Submitted on 2011/07/28 at 09:13 pm
    To all posters:
    Again, I repeat–if anyone can answer my questions biblically please respond.
    Dee, where in the bible does it say that all Christians are hypocrites. Is that what we are called after we are redeemed by the Blood of the Lamb and walk in His righteousness? Are you convinced that we only need to name the Name of Christ and that hypocrisy is normal behavior for a Christian? Is that God’s standard for our lives?
    As far as what church I attend, what does that have to do with anything? My views are not formed by man, they are formed by the Word of God with the Spirit being my teacher and counselor. But to ease your mind, I sit under the most biblically literate, mature, non-compromising pastor in the United States.
    I have been redeemed from a life of sin (over 33 years ago) and before that time, I was involved in every act of sin imaginable. I know the seeds of sin as I fed them and watered them. Once I met Jesus Christ by His Spirit and was cleansed from my sin, I put my hand to the plow and never looked back.
    Even though my questions seem to touch a few nerves, I still cannot see where yoking with the world in any way furthers our walk. Anytime we choose to dabble in the world via numerous forms of entertainment (ie, movies, music, books, theatre, etc)we cheat ourselves and we bring shame on the Cross. The Bible states that anyone who loves the world or anything of the world hates God.
    The poster that made the comment that he/she is glad they are not like me has every right to justify their behavior. But they might remember the story of Lot who camped right next to Sodom. Before his story was over, he consorted with the Sodomites, fellowshipped with them and was so spiritually numb by the time Abraham took him out of there, he lost his wife also. And all in the name of compromise.
    We are dealing with a very just God. Most TV sitcom viewing is not good or godly. We do not get a free pass because of grace. Paul is very specific in Corinthians about the misuse of grace. To watch filthy whatever and use it as a missional reason is no different than dating a non-Christian. What place does Belial have with God? None at all.
    I will close with this. I am not ashamed of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. He did not save me and redeem me to let me back in the cess pool. My conscience is clear. I am forever grateful because without Him, I would be lost eternally.
    I hope that you will all take what I said into consideration.

    Submitted on 2011/07/28 at 10:27 pm
    To all:
    How about I do you all a favor and quit. I am so sorry that there wasn’t a mature reasonable response in the bunch. I rest my case.
    Do not waste your defensive mantra on me anymore. I will not be visiting this site anymore.
    “For many will come in my name, crying Lord, Lord and I will say, Depart from me, I knew you not.” (paraphrased)
    I pray for your souls.
    Sincerely in Him,

  35. Honestly, I’m glad that Jean is gone. To basically tell other Christians who, for her, aren’t living a completely separate abstinent life from the world that theyre destined for hell is not only offensive and cruel, but ignorant. Does Jean know she has already judged our souls? Why does she need to pray for us then? And what about Christ not coming to condemn but to set us free and give us joy everlasting? Why would Jeans God put her in a world where she cannot interact with the things in it? I’m sure Jean believes she has well-earned her salvation and her place in heaven. But Jean is going to be surprised,that’s if Jean gets to Heaven, who will be there with her. Jean will also be surprised that many people legalistic and pharisaical like her will be in hell.

    Jean, please don’t pray for me. I don’t want your prayer and neither does my soul need it. My soul and my life has been hidden in Christ, thankyouverymuch!

  36. Jean should also know that God is FAR more attractive, gentle, kind, peaceable and loving than she paintsHim. I’d never be converted by someone like her who displays harsh and legalistic god. I’d rather have lunch with God than Jean. Jean would send me to hell for whatever wordily thing I’ve done. God, would show me compassion and just save me and hug me after. I’m glad he is not like her.

  37. When she described us as “Christians” in quotes, she meant that we are not as far as she is concerned. Sorry.

    Jesus partied with people, feasting, attending weddings (and once providing wine [btw, NOT grape juice]), seders (with multiple rounds of wine), etc. Why did the disciples fall asleep after the Lord’s supper? Too much wine!!!

    If Jean’s family watch TV and see the ads, especially on sports, they are in the same boat!

  38. RE numo @ Thu, Jul 28 2011 at 11:06 pm:

    You’re right numo, I don’t think it’s possible to make this stuff up and still keep a straight face.

  39. I wonder why Jean thinks tv is bad but the Internet isn’t? Jean thinks what she says is Scripture, not her own words, when Jean fails to realize that they are, in fact, her own words and are self-condemning. Again, jean, by her own standards, is in sin just by participating here, but also using the Internet.

  40. @ Muff P: it amazes me that these guys are so blissfully unaware that their material sounds like something from The Onion.

    Then again, it’s so ridiculous that it kind of has to be real.

  41. Numo: that is hilarious! I love the Onion. You are so right.

    Gonna write you back shortly

  42. NLR
    That was the point I made to her just before she signed off. Well, I did say that our readers have learned that CJ is the worst sinner in the world according to his own words. So I asked who was the best preacher in the world. that she claims to know.

  43. NLR/Numo

    Log live the Onion. Anyone here a fan of the old Wittenberg Door?

    Just saw the movie Cowboys and Aliens. One thing is certain, this movie does not support the Calvinista point of view.

  44. Quick note: instead of, ” Dris”cool” as though there’s an ounce of coolness in this specimen, I have dubbed him Dris….coli or D coli becase he is full of it.

  45. DB
    The funniest comment of the post!!! For our readers, E Coli is a bacteria found in your gut . If E Coli gets into salad bars and other foods, people are admitted for extreme diarrhea, etc. D Coli-AWESOME!

  46. Much worse that being called feces is being called the gas that sometimes precedes it. Feces can be turned into fertilizer and, from some species of animal, into fuel. The gas just stinks. And it is the E coli that causes the stink and is a major component of the feces.

  47. Getting a little silly, are’t we?
    Calling names sort of diminishes the seriousness of the subject.
    We should be weeping over what this man could be, but because of something terribly wrong has caused him to bring so much harm on himself and the members of Christ’s body. This coarse seems out of place and puerile.

  48. Parakleto

    Please reread this comment from the mouth of Driscoll.
    “He describe his flu ordeal saying ‘getting sent to hell would be an upgrade’. He proudly declares, ‘I crapped myself about fifteen minutes into the sermon and was left with a terrible dilemma. Do I finish the sermon and just not move much on the stage? Do I… sneak off and clean up the oil slick?’ Instead of excusing himself like a mature adult, he preached for another 45 minutes and then adds more crudity to his story and writing, ‘I tried to breath out of my mouth to lessen the stench.’ (Confessions, p88 and 176-177)

    Here is the problem. We can try to laugh a bit about it or just plain cry. Driscoll brought it up, not us. This is an example of the effect that Driscoll has on the subject at hand. I find it a most illuminating illustration how Driscoll changes the dialogue from Christ to himself. Sometimes the best way to point out an absurdity is to carry it to its logical conclusion. Then, perhaps, the light shines a bit clearer about the possible progression of this mess. He crosses the line.

  49. Parakleto,

    Driscoli is anal explosive but I detect a tad of anal retentiveness in the personality portrayed in the previous few posts.

    I don’t take myself seriously and if you’re offended by potty humor, nerd humor, or self-depricating humor, skip over my responses.

  50. Hello Parakleto:

    I can’t say agree with you about implementing double-standards regarding crossing lines, but some types of humor make my stomach weak, too.

    For instance, rumor (backed by several written confirmations) has it that married men at a certain church whose qualities Driscoll extolls like this joke, “my wife said she had a headache so I gave her two Advils and went upstairs 30 minutes later.”

    Since I’m late to the party there’s not much more to add about Driscoll so perhaps I’ll simply go with this zinger from the movie Animal House –

    That boy is a P-I-G pig.

    Those who have seen Animal House may appreciate the scene I’m invoking and there are no bad words in my post for those with weak stomachs…that may require some Advil as it’s easier on your tummy than Excedrin in the likely event a wife suddenly has a tummy-ache and a headache.


  51. P.S. – Parakleto – I don’t know what you do with your time. However, if one of your callings was running a blog that not infrequently addresses church abuse issues such as the willingness of pastors to shove the molestation or outright rape of little kids under the carpet because they’re worried about being sued by the confessed perpetrator’s prominent family, you might need a laugh once in a while too.

  52. You know, I was thinking about this over the weekend. When Jesus confronted the Pharisees He called them snakes, a brood of vipers.
    When is it okay to do this and when isn’t it?

    Janna, I never saw Animal House so I don’t know the significance of the pig joke.
    Nor have I ever heard the “give her advil then go up stairs in 30 minutes” joke until this morning.

    But over the weekend, while I was thinking about what Driscoll was doing to men all I could think was this:
    Driscoll believes that he is turning boys into men. But what he is really doing is turning men into pigs. Pigs who wallow and glory in filth and flesh.

    So imagine my surprise when I checked over here and say your pig reference. It either confirms what I was thinking or it was one of those really weird coincidences.

    And I’m still wondering, when is it right to say, “You brood of vipers” or “you herd of pigs”?

    Truly, I suppose only Jesus is really qualified to label like that.

    But I’m still appalled at what Driscoll is doing to men in the name of ‘biblical manhood’. It’s not pretty. It’s filthy and disgusting and turns men into pigs.

  53. Hey Mara:

    I think we’re on the same wavelength. I wish I could explain the Animal House scene but it’s one of those things you just have to see to really appreciate. Let me say it involves a grungy frat boy (I know I’m offending you Greek guys but you have to admit that when the shoe fits 99% of the time…) having a meal with some ladies from a hoity-toity sorority and…I better not finish the thought.

    I hadn’t heard the Advil joke till recently either but I’ve no doubt that the men making that joke would stand on a soapbox protesting the existence of baudy language in movies. If you cheat on your wife, you’re the biggest piece of scum on earth but if you treat her like scum, that’s okay. Sigh…

    I don’t know about brood of vipers but Driscoll is in the hall of fame under “pig.”

  54. Dear Mara,

    I was being a little silly but you asked some wonderful questions and raised some great issues in your post.

    Your thought that only Jesus is qualified to say certain things resonated with me. You have a point, but please know that there are people out there who will use a sneaky rhetorical trick to tell you that you have no right to criticize someone like Mark Driscoll because “only God can judge him.” Meanwhile, these folks are out judging to their heart’s content.

    They want you to live by a different standard than they live by, and they will use every rhetorical trick in the book to make you feel guilty about questioning them.

    If this happens/is happening to you I can only hope you’ll consider attending a church in which people are truly worshiping God rather than using God’s word as a means to control others.

    And if you’re thinking, Janna, I know all that, please forgive what may come across as condescension, Dear.

    I’m just paying it forward as I many women helped me with the “rhetorical trick” situations I was facing at one time.



  55. @NLR and @Dee –

    I was impressed that no one has ever called Jean a hypocrite. I’ve never known anyone who hasn’t deservedly been called a hypocrite, including myself. But then it sounds like Jean doesn’t get out much as doing so would subject her to the approximately 3500 ads per day (most without a Christian focus) that the average American sees.

    A blog referencing the existence of the Office should not merit multiple e-mails if the big problem is that the average TV show conflicts with someone’s ideas about what the Bible says about media watching habits. Talk about not seeing the forest for the trees (or however that cliches goes) if you want to improve other Christians viewing habits.


    He’s an embarrassment even by Calvinista celebrity preacher standards. That plus the homophobia (this guy sounds like he’s truly afraid he might be gay/called gay as opposed to just disliking gay people) makes you wonder what he’s got on some folks such that not only must they put up with him, they can’t even reign him in.

  56. Dee said:

    “He (Driscoll) says a man with a machete rushed the stage/pulpit a few years back. I cannot find any police reports. Anybody out there know how I can get documentation on it?”

    I can’t find proof of this happening but will continue to investigate.

    Mark Driscoll was interviewed by someone at the “Church Executive” and was asked this question: “You’ve even had death threats as a result of your ministry?’

    Driscoll replied: “At the church services we’ve had occasions where guys wanted to give death threats, we’ve have people try to get up on the stage to fight me, we had one guy pull out a machete and try to kill me while I was preaching. So now I’ve got security around the building and security off the stage.”


    Also, here’s what Driscoll wrote in a “Note” on his Facebook:

    “I personally have had people try to get on stage to fight me during sermons, someone pull a machete and rush the stage while I was preaching before being stopped by security”

    Source: Driscoll’s March 8, 2009 Facebook Note

  57. Most of us, myself included, could stand to lose a few pounds. But does anyone else think it’s strange to be posing as the Arnold Schwarzenegger of the celebrity pastor world when the kindest thing word one could apply to your physique is “pudgy” and you have to hide behind body guards constantly?

    Even a little woman like me could learn/bothered to learn how to disarm a machete-wielder in martial arts classes in Israel, and I had no reason to expect people to attack me on a regular basis.

    How about a gym membership and some basic self defense classes, macho macho man…I want to be a macho man but all I can do is denigrate women while hiding behind my security guards (insert tune of choice here as YMCA doesn’t work well with my lyrics)

    …second verse same as the first.

  58. @Janna: Hehe, something tells me that The Village People wouldn’t be his band of choice either..

  59. @Garland – sorry, I didn’t do my homework and mis-attributed the song. It is by the Village People.



  60. Deb

    Driscoll is the only one talking about it. I think it is time for a call to the city dest of the Seattle Times to see if they knew about this. A search of their archives turned up nothing.

  61. Janna

    We posted the you tube video of the Village People and Macho Man in our original series on Driscoll. A little radical bit somehow apropos.

  62. Janna, just to clear a couple things up between you and me.
    You did not say one thing that offended me.
    Also, I have no problem going after Mark Driscoll and the blatant error he teaches and the lies he speaks concerning the Word of God.
    And I’ve said some pretty shocking things, including saying that he may be guilty of hosting the spirit of Jezebel by teaching men sexual immorality, etc.
    So I have no problem with confronting it.
    I was only wondering if it was right for me to call him and the Driscollites he creates pigs like Jesus called the Pharisees vipers, or if I should leave that well enough alone.
    So for me, the jury is still out on that.
    I still enjoyed finding your post about P-I-G PIG and am thinking I should quit putting off watching Animal House so I know what you are talking about.

  63. Mara

    Ah, Animal House. True confessions to our readers. The year before he became a Christian, my husband joined the defrocked fraternity at Dartmouth upon which the movie was loosely based. Thankfully, God caught up with him after his freshman years before too much damage was done.

    As for my opinion, whenever i raise Driscoll as a subject, I always get some guy who wants to discuss sexual mores in most explicit terms. What is it about this guy that encourages this dialogue???

  64. @ Mara – thanks for the clarification. Please forgive me. I went on an adventure cruise to the SGM blogs for a couple weeks and found lots of women there who were or had been brainwashed into believing that they couldn’t challenge men for any reason. I’m still decompressing from the experience.

    Plus I’d rather that you think I was nuts/condescending than that I miss an opportunity to help a struggling woman see a different perspective on appalling male “leadership.”

    Animal House is a lot of fun – go rent it! And I’m going with the “Pillsbury Driscoll-boy” rather than “pig” or “viper” since Driscoll couldn’t beat up the wussiest guy in my yoga class (a lot of Yoga guys are pretty buff actually) much less any of the uber-athletes in his wife’s dorm. Ya know, if you want to have an image then put some effort into it. 🙂

    @Dee – That’s a pretty awesome conversion. I thought that Dartmouth banned that fraternity a few years ago and I was right it sounds. The whole Greek system is under fire now that so many reports have surfaced proving that women were gang-raped in the 80s regularly at frat houses and universities are being sued for not doing anything about it. Yale had an especially appalling incident a few months ago.

    Funny how similiar the excuses for letting fraternities run wild are to SGM’s excuses for letting its pastors and favored congregants run wild. “They’re just women after all and this is how men have always treated women. What’s the big deal?”

  65. @Dee – just saw your comment on Macho Man. I didn’t know that and can only say that great minds sing alike!

  66. @ Dee and Deb: I would not be surprised to find out that all these stories about attempts at violent assaults on Driscoll are a complete fabrication.

    Anything to enhance his image, I guess…

  67. Janna, one of the commentors on my blog calls Driscoll “Strawberry boy”.
    I had no idea why until he explained it.

    I buy Driscoll strawberries regularly but still didn’t make the connection.
    Love Driscoll strawberries.
    Hate Driscoll doctrine.

  68. Why do you waste time printing and researching stuff by this guy? Its pathetic.

    When a guy spends that much time telling you he’s not gay–he usually is.

    Enough said.

  69. The reason I deal with this guy and his false doctrine is because even though he’s so far off, he influences thousands. He was put on the list of America’s 50 most influential pastors.

    Also, since I, at one time, was part of an abusive system led by a pastor similar to Driscoll*, when I got out of it, it was nice to hear voices refutting the crap that pastor fed us.
    Those coming out of Driscoll saturated circles need to see and hear information that confronts Driscoll’s errors head on.

    *(My former pastor was the tough guy type who loved crowds but hated people. He was not nearly so dangerous and Driscoll is now because his influence is nothing like Driscoll’s. Driscoll is better looking, more charismatic, and more inclined to twist scripture than my former pastor who has now fallen from grace and being divorced by his wife.)

  70. @Mara – thanks. I’m not sure I understand the strawberry reference but I do know that you don’t need a machete to take out someone like Driscoll. Some of the 100 lbs women in the various and sundry martial arts classes I’ve taken over the years could take him out (or almost any pudgy guy with a medium build) with their pinkies.

    @Ethan – I agree that he wouldn’t be worth bothering with except that he’s so influential. His ego can’t take much punching so making fun of him is probably a very effective way of shooting (no, not literally) him down.

  71. @Ethan and @Dee –

    I watched a documentary about Haggard with a gay friend and within two minutes she said something like, “how could anyone have ever have thought that this man was straight. Talk about flaming.” She’s gay so she can say non politically correct things like that.

    I don’t get that vibe from Driscoll, though. I think he’s just immensely insecure about his masculinity because he’s a Beta Male pretending to be an Alpha male in an Alpha male’s world.

    What never fails to surprise me is that the real Alpha males I know, such as the Special Opps guys, feel no need to denigrate women to prop themselves up.

    They’ve passed one of societies true masculinity tests and they’re secure in the manhood.

    Denigrating women seems to be the strategy of course for the man who feels truly impotent, by contrast.

  72. Pingback: Mahaney, Controversy, and Eating One Another « Whispers on the Journey

  73. A “pal”

    I wish I could tell you how timely your email is. That video is very disturbing. At some point, I will look into this further, you have my word.

  74. Dee, you are so correct. That video was beyond disturbing. It was absolutely deplorable and thoroughly disgusting. All of his so called visions were of rape, incest, adultery, and abuse. His so called “TV” was only on the crime channel. Where are his visions of any good things in people’s past???? This demented preacher needs to be put in a straight jacket and locked up in an insane asylum.

    Who was in the audience listening to this barrage of sewage? The guy who supposedly threatened to kill his wife, was he suppose to believe Driscoll that the Lord told him and not his wife? What if he did not believe Driscoll and went home and murdered her? Did Driscoll even think about that in his great wisdom??? Obviously not! I am so very angry about what I just saw from this ego maniac. Shame on him for that pornographic and obscene rant. Get this bozo out of the pulpit and out of the church NOW!

  75. Ted

    Thank you. We have some interesting things that Deb will be posting tonight about Dever and Mahaney.