We must lay before him what is in us, not what ought to be in us.
– C. S. Lewis
Last night, I got what I shall now call the Wartburg Tingle. I was reading through the comments we had been receiving on the topic of C.J. Mahaney and something began to bother me. I kept returning to a comment from “Exaggerated” in which he asked the following question.
“When was the last time you prayed for CJ Mahaney? Of course, I might be missing the whole intent of this website…maybe you aren’t Christians at all and it would be silly for you to pray for CJ.”
And then it hit me like a ton of bricks! It was obvious by the general tone of the response that he assumed I hadn’t prayed for Mahaney. Well, he was wrong. I had but perhaps what I prayed would not be to his liking. I have prayed that C.J. Mahaney's eyes would be opened to the abuse that is being reported in his "family of churches". I prayed that he would actually assume a position of humility for a change instead of just talking about it. You know, walk the walk, not just talk the talk. I prayed he would hear from the Holy Spirit and repent for the ongoing wrongs in “his” churches. I wonder if this is the sort of prayer “Exaggerated” wanted me pray for Mahaney?
Another commenter queried:
“When he/she (Exaggerated) raises the legitimate point about praying for CJ, the point was completely ignored and met with the obfuscating reference to the obviously tragic, terrible, and totally depraved circumstances surrounding the treatment of Noel and her family."
What I am about to share is personal and somewhat controversial, but I’m sure our readers expect nothing less. Years ago, shortly after arriving in Dallas (where we had no relatives), my 3-½ year old daughter was diagnosed with a massive malignant brain tumor. The prognosis was not good. I was pregnant with my son and had another young daughter. As her surgery progressed, we were surprised to see a well-known doctor from Dallas in the OR waiting room. His 3-year-old grandson was being operated on in an adjacent surgical suite to remove a malignant kidney tumor.
His family was a part of both the social and Christian circles in Dallas. Friends, pastors, etc. surrounded them. Massive prayer meetings were ongoing for the life of this dear little boy. Although we had made some friends, we were brand new and deep relationships were yet to be formed. Of course some kind folks prayed for us but certainly not to the extent for this other family.
I remember crying a whole bunch, wishing that we had more Christian friends to lean on. There was many a night that I wished that we, too, had thousands of people praying, holding special church services, etc.
A few months later, this sweet boy went home to be with the Lord. Our daughter, who had a worse diagnosis, continued to survive and is now considered a cure. I struggled for years with the question, “Why did he die and my daughter live?” He had so many people praying for him and our daughter had only a few.
As time has elapsed, I have grown to understand that it is not the number of prayers that make the Almighty listen. He hears each and every prayer of the faithful and treats each of them with equal respect and love. The answer to my question will not be answered fully in this life. God had His purposes, life is hard and not fair, and some day all tears will be wiped from our eyes.
But it goes without saying that my family felt very lonely during our time of trial. I wish we had had many people praying for us; yet I am grateful for the sweet people who reached out to us while we were strangers.
This event has profoundly impacted my life. Over the years, I have made it a priority to look for the lonely, let down, and hurting. I adopt abused pug dogs, I have volunteered for years in tough sections in town. I actively look for people who are struggling. I especially am on the lookout for those who are lonely in their trials.
There is a dear man, of poor means, in Birmingham who sets up a little area on a busy bridge in order to witness to commuters.You've seen the type-hand printed signs, banged up truck, and a big smile, even when people hurl things at him. I once pulled over and we had a great talk. I even held one of his signs as we conversed. I pray for him. I wonder how many people do? Bet he isn’t prayed for as much as C.J.
So, here is my question. How many people pray for those who are NOT the big guys up front? This is how I answered another commenter.
“I survived a terrible situation at another church which involved a pedophile who harmed a significant number of kids, badly. My first and foremost concern is always with the victims of abuse. And, unfortunately, SGM seems to have spawned a fair number of those who claim abuse. So, when I read a comment that seems to feel more sorry for the wealthy and idolized leader of a movement that has allowed for what appears to be significant pain, guess who I spend most of time praying for? CJ is adored, loved, fawned over and prayed for time and time again. I, too, have prayed for him. But, an abused child is hardly remembered in the same fashion. Guess how often ol CJ is prayed for in all of the conferences he speaks at? Tons and tons. I wonder how many of those people at those conferences took the time to pray for a little child who was abused in one of the SGM churches?”
Should I pray for C.J.? Yep. But, is he more deserving of prayers than a boy who has been molested and had his childhood ruined? Nope. Yet C.J.'s highly visibility friends, etc. pray him for at conferences and in “his” family of churches. I think he is well covered with prayer. I have added my own, but I am sure that those in SGM would not relish my type of "prayer".
I think it is time for the evangelical church in America to stop focusing on the Mahaneys, Mohlers, Pipers, et al. We need to follow the path of Jesus. He rarely spent time witnessing to the religious leaders of His day. In fact, He sometimes engaged in name calling (snakes, oppressors, etc.). Instead, Jesus spent His energy on those outside the halls of power, both religious and political. He scandalized the upper crust by dining with tax collectors. He walked around with groups of people that included prostitutes, fishermen, and the sick. He commented on how the religious establishment ignored the little people except to collect their hard earned money and impose rules and regulations on them. Unlike some of the mega-preacher set of today, He told a rich guy to sell all he had and follow Him. And He allowed him to walk away.
In conclusion, am I worried that the Mahaneys of the world aren’t being prayed for enough? Nope. But I have to admit that I am spending more time praying for an unknown street preacher in Birmingham.
I don’t think anyone is above the need for more prayer. I don’t see Mohler or Piper asking for people to focus on them. I know little about Mahaney. Your illustration is excellent about Christ but can we judge that the men you mentioned are not serving Christ in their own sphere of influence?
John, They don’t have to ask. That is the point.
but they DO spend an inordinate amoumt of time promoting each other to thousands.
Dee, I am reluctant to share any specifics but I do ask your readers to please pray for single moms out there. There are many in our churches that are not treated as they should be by leaders.
John
I am not sure that you understand what I am saying. Of course everyone should pray for everyone everyday because everyone is in need of more prayer. We don’t. There seems to be a large amount of prayer for those in high visibility. Why them and not the preacher in Birmingham or single mothers?
I don’t judge whether or not they are serving Christ. I’m sure that they believe they are. That is not my point. I am simple stating the obvious. We spend a whole bunch of our time focused on the guys up front. There are people who are out there who are alone and lonely and not being prayed for. That is my concern.
Lydia
It is so strange you brought up the need for prayer of single mothers. Yesterday, as I was driving, I actually did that. I was thinking about those who are running below the radar of churches. Single mothers, abused children, the elderly, other people living a subsistence living due to mental illness or other handicaps, etc.
The plight of the single mom is overlooked in today’s “family” churches. The church likes to put on the front of well-scrubbed families because that is a nice image. But the reality is much different.
For example, 9 years ago, I was told that a certain family had the best marriage in the world and the best kids. Today, they are divorced. The best husband in the world pulled a Mark Sanford with a woman in another country. This led to other family problems as well.
The real church is made up of people who struggle, many times not due their own fault. In my experience the majority of single mothers fit in this category.And even, in some instances, if it was their fault, they are forgiven and struggle. I prefer a church focused on the lost, letdown, and hurting instead of on the pretense of the wealthy well-scrubbed, to the manor born who look at Christianity as a means of proof of God’s favor on their superficial lives.
And, by the way, Jesus picked the overlooked to be His disciples. And those disciples changed the world! The church is overlooking the incredible gifts of single mothers because they don’t fit “the family” megachurch image. If Jesus did it, should we do any less?
Dee,
Thank you for sharing your story about your daughter. I’m so glad things worked out well in her case.
Have you ever noticed how when someone has sinned and another is hurt by that sin, that people always tell the victim that they should forgive the other person? My wife insightfully asked, I wonder if anyone ever calls the person who sinned and tells them they need to repent and apologize to the victim for their offense? They rarely do. They don’t want to get into a conflict. These are religious people, not people who know how to love.
These same people are the ones who say they want to be like Jesus. Really? Are they willing to not pray for certain leaders and confront them, the way Jesus did, and call them snakes, hypocrites, white-washed tombs, and tell them to repent? That would be like Jesus, wouldn’t it? No, they are religious people who love their comfort and connectedness to the men/idols/pastors they worship…and I do mean worship.
And if someone here thinks I’m being too harsh? Well…just pray for me.
Michael
Whoa-I just got another Wartburg tingle! Your second paragraph hit me square between the eyes. Let me explain.
In my dustup in a previous church, I was lectured by some folks that I needed to immediately forgive the pastors, elders, et al and that, if I didn’t do this immediately, I was labeled….you guessed it “bitter.” BTW, I am this close to banishing use of this word on this site. I am sick of it. Anyone who has a grievance with poor leadership is always labeled “bitter.” It’s another way of saying “shut up” and attempting to diminish your concerns.
Said folks would never, ever tell said leaders that they needed to repent and ask forgiveness. Of course not, they were the leaders and leaders don’t sin, do they? Oh, one insightful sycophant mentioned that the pastor “wasn’t a perfect man.” Anyone reading a Bible would know that no one is perfect so this wasn’t an admission of jack didilly.
You are right and I have never thought of this. Give your wife a big hug from me. This idea deserves a blog post all on its own. (Hey Deb, are you catching this)?
In all of the conflicts mentioned on this blog, never once has the offended person ever had anyone come to their defense by going to the pastor and saying, repent. You have given me much to think about.
As for the prayer part, they will need to add me to the list if they think you are too harsh. You are not harsh, you are prophetic!
Bless you! For His reason, God is putting some very wounded single moms in my path who have been treated horribly in evangelical churches.
“Bitter” is definitely overused. Ooops, I just used bitter! Argh, and again I said bitter! Oh no, I just said bitter again! Ahhhh!!!
From now on we shall be the Knights Who Say “Absinthian”.
Junkster,
Have you read Scott’s comment over at RU UNDER CEEJ? Now we have “latent bitterness” here at TWW. So predictable…
Junkster
Ah, the wormwood and the gall approach. It has a literary flair with a touch of insouciance. May I propose “mordant?” It has that Lord of the Rings ambiance.
If it is becoming predictable that people are saying that you are bitter, is it not possible that there might be some truth to it?
I think it is time for the evangelical church in America to stop focusing on the Mahaneys, Mohlers, Pipers, et al. We need to follow the path of Jesus.
“We need to follow the path of Jesus.”
What a radical concept…And to think, on judgment day…Matthew 25: God isn’t going to ask how Calvinist you were, how many recipes you wrote as a full time homemaker, which pastors’ books did you read…
He’s going to ask: Did you feed the hungry? Did you give drink to the thirsty? Did you clothe the naked? Did you take strangers into your care? Did you visit those in prison?
Thank you so much for writing this post.
And no, of course I am not suggesting a “works-based” salvation, I’m merely pointing out that the works and fruit of the faith as defined by the established Christian leaders of today, hardly match up with the instructions our Lord Jesus laid out for through his teachings and life example.
Scott
Surely you are smarter than this. The word, bitter, is used excessively to insult folks in spiritually abusive churches. It is not used just towards us but towards many others. It is just a ho-hum tactic used by the unimaginative. Please don’t put yourself into that category.Try to see what we are saying.Or are you part of the hyper-authoritarian movement?
Radiance,
Thanks for reminding us of what’s really important in the Christian life.
When I started learning about the trend toward hyper-authoritarianism about two years ago, I felt helpless to do anything about it. Now Dee and I, just two ordinary women, have discovered one way to combat it. Knowledge is power, and we’re doing our best to research and report on these important issues affecting Christendom.
I hope our critics don’t think they can silence up by throwing around words like “bitter”. If anything, such accusations only encourage us in our quest here at TWW.
Radiance
You have just added to the post by your comment. Thank you.
I have probably read 30-40 articles on this site and I was making an observation based on both the articles and the comments section.
Are my only two options to agree with you or to be part of the hyper-authoritarian movement?
Just so you don’t miss where I am coming from, I pastor a church that is purposefully congregational. We have mechanisms in place so that any person in our church can know what my salary is. When we recommend for a person to join the leadership team, they must be approved by 75% of the congregation. Also, our bylaws have a section that detail how I can be removed as pastor by a vote of the congregation. The kicker- I helped write the bylaws and insisted that all of these things were in there. That’s right, I purposefully made sure that there were policies in place where the congregation could overrule the leadership.
I say these things because I want you to understand where I am not coming from.
I forgot to mention:
“comforting the sick”
There’s a twitter user who goes by the name of “XIANITY” and he makes satirical commentary on American Evangelical subculture. After healthcare reform had passed, he posted:
“BREAKING NEWS: American Church off the hook for sick & dying, now hoping for some widows & orphans legislation”
It’s pretty frustrating when someone pulls out the bitter card because the accusation alone seems incriminating. They can accuse you of being bitter without any true evidence except that
you ‘re angry and there is no way to prove that you’re not bitter. They wrongly interpret anger, any anger, as unrighteous, even if it’s justified. They forget that we actually are instructed to, “be angry…but don’t sin.” They just read the, “don’t sin,” part and forget the, “be angry,” instruction.
When my former pastor and I were having a knock-down-drag-out, he said, “Michael, you’re so bitter in your heart.” I responded, “No, I’m not, you’re the one who’s bitter.” Then he said, “You can’t see inside my heart.” Of course, I had no other choice but to answer the obvious way, “Oh, so you can see inside my heart, but I can’t see inside your heart.” There it was, his elitist attitude, thinking that his judgment and words are superior to mine. Unfortunately, the doofus deacons and the congregation believe in his superiority, as well, which is why pastors are treated with such partiality.
Also, you got me right between the eyes when you wrote about the non-confession confession, “The pastor wasn’t a perfect man.” I’ve experienced that, hearing it both from the deacons and also from the pastor’s mouth. Next time ask them, “Really, tell me specifically how you’ve sinned, recently?” If they won’t tell you, then you know they are deceivers and can’t be trusted. A godly person would confess, in humility, specific sins they might struggle with. When they just give you some generic line like you mentioned, it is just for show; it’s false humility.
Scott,
Of course it’s possible that Dee is bitter. It’s possible that I’m bitter. It’s possible that you are bitter. It’s possible that the whole world is bitter. Why don’t you ask her a more direct question? How about, “Dee, are you bitter?”
Then, accept her answer.
Maybe she’s angry and rightfully so. Rejoice that there are people who share God’s righteous anger and have enough backbone to do something about it.
Also, it’s good that you are promoting the involvement of your congregation. As a part of your bylaws, I would recommend that you mandate that your leaders roll off in increments, so the leadership team doesn’t become too ingrown and bais. It will also give life and mix up the flavor of the leadership team. Finally, it will give you a chance to add leaders who might be more qualified and mature than your existing leaders. When they roll back on after a few years, let the church vote on a pool of who should roll back on. That way, they will elect those whom they perceive will represent their voice and God’s voice the best.
In addition, when you want to get a consensus of what your congregation or your leadership team thinks, don’t tell them what you think until they’ve brought their independent discussion to the table. That way you’ll avoid unduly influencing them, since it’s natural to not want to have a different opinion than the one whom you look up to and want to be connected with.
Ahhh the “bitter” card.
I’m soo familiar with that. Being one who was “cast out to Satan” by one of C-J’s church’s, I guess I would fall into the “bitter” camp – and thought I would get in there before anyone can “observe” my bitterness. Am I bitter? Too right I’m bitter! I went to see two pastors and asked for help because I was depressed and was self-harming and was told it was because I was living in sin (even though I hadn’t confessed any such thing).
Am I bitter? Yes. Do I want to be bitter? No of course I don’t. I defy any “bitter” person to state they enjoy their bitterness and are quite happy in that state! Yes – there are times when I admit I’ve enjoyed being angry. Anger lies and makes you feel like you are strong.
But it leaves a bitter (ha ha) aftertaste and you realise that actually it is eating you alive from inside, and the only person who you are hurting is yourself by your bitterness. The wrong-doing SGM leaders are quite happy, thank you, in their righteous and “humble” relationship standing in the very stead of God.
It really really irks me that “bitterness” is used as the “get out of jail” card for anyone who may have a genuine grievance against wrong doing in the church. Why does that mean that the wrong-doing didn’t really happen?
Next time you point the finger and say “You’re bitter” – you may be right. But why don’t you look a bit deeper, and see if that “bitter” person is secretly masking deep hurt and pain at what was done to them.
Dan,
So glad to hear from you again. I enjoyed visiting London back in May. We flew into Heathrow, and your country is beautiful! I was amazed by how much farmland I saw. And the estates I could see from the air were magnificent.
I think of you often and wonder how you’re doing. Just know that I’m keeping you in my prayers.
Blessings to you.
That is hysterical. I haven’t used Twitter yet but this comment makes me want to explore it.
Scott
I thought things over last night after I went to bed. Perhaps you are like I was until about 5 years ago. You may have never seen a bad church. Your pastors were nice and actively encouraged you. Perhaps, like two of my daughters you went to a college that adhered to Christian principles and it was wonderful. Perhaps you now lead a start up church that was spawned from another very good church.
If so, you cannot imagine the pain that is caused by poor leadership and arrogant pastors who are hyper controlling. I have often said that had I not gone through a horrid experience a couple of years back, I would never believe the nonsense that masquerades as the church.
When you visit here, you are in the company of many folks who have been hurt, abused and let down by the church. Listen to their tales. Perhaps you will deepen as a pastor and be willing to offer solace instead of a hackneyed expression like “bitter” which is used to diminish the pain. Also, as Michael said, perhaps it is righteous anger.
Finally, I can tell you that I am not bitter. In fact, I now am grateful to God for the experience because I can relate to what others are going through.
Please read Dan’s comments. He was unjustly accused and told he was being turned over to Satan by an arrogant pastor. Do you understand his pain? If not, then you have a long way to go before you can shepherd others.
If the prophet, priests and kings say you are bitter then you are bitter. There is no way around it. Your sin of bitterness is MORE sinful than spiritual abuse heaped upon others. It is more sinful than arrogant pride and ministry as a wealth and influence builder. It is not always money. A lot of it is having authority.
The problem is that anyone who dares question the celebrities is now “bitter”. Think of how well that works to their advantage. They have the grativas to pull that off and make the questioner look unsaved and pitiful. It works more than people think. And the only way to combat it is to help people get out of those circles so they can see things afresh. Get away from Group Think.
I have no doubt that David Koresh and his loyal followers said the same things about people who dared question him.
One of the bigger problems we have is that few people understand cult of personality and the cult tactics that are employed. What is really happening is that many are following men and not admitting it or do not realize it.
If it is becoming predictable that people are saying Jews are the reason for our problems, is it not possible that there might be some truth in it?
Aww 🙂 Thanks Deb! Love you guys, your honesty, and your ability to question the status quo – feel very “safe” at the W.W!
Lydia
You are good!
Is the Watburg Tingle similar to Spidey Sense?
Is there a t-shirt for that?
Junkster
I knew you would get it. I’m afraid there are a few people who might refer to me as a Black Widow, however.
Yes, I have figured out your secret identities. Now it is time for the whole world to see …
The Real Dee and Deb
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Wow, another excellent essay!
I wonder if the people who are calling victims of church abuse “bitter” when the victims speak out would make of Jesus when He called the religious authorities of His day “hypocrites,” “liars,” “sons of the devil.” I wonder if THEY would dare to call Our Lord and Saviour “bitter.”