"What you do speaks so loud I cannot hear what you say". Abraham Lincoln
Michael Spencer, the recently departed Internet Monk, was able to complete his book, Mere Churchianty, before he went home to meet his Jesus. The book clearly outlines his opinion of the current state of the evangelical church in America. And the picture, although discouraging, is not without hope. However, he takes a long, hard look at the decline of evangelicalism in America.
We have written extensively about the scandal that has swirled around Ergun Caner. He claimed to have been raised in Turkey (as well as other locales) and said he was taught to be a jihadist. However, he became a Christian while a teenager and never got around to blowing up buildings. His lies were numerous. which is a problem since he was the President of Liberty Baptist Theological Seminary. This past Friday, Ergun Camer was removed from that position but will continue as a professor at the seminary.
In the next few posts, TWW will be dealing with the obvious and not so obvious issues raised by the Caner scandal.
–Ergun Caner was found by the Liberty investigators to be a “true” Muslim prior to his conversion.
For the majority of Christians involved in this matter, Caner’s former Muslim faith was neither in question nor an issue. Some Muslims rejected Caner’s claims that he used to be a Muslim. They alleged that he does not speak the language, exhibits profound ignorance of Islam, and has erroneously repeated common Islamic prayers.
Some of his Christian supporters state that he had a deep commitment to his Muslim faith prior to his conversion.
I disagree with the approach to this issue. I spent years in Dallas trying to reconcile the actions and words of supposed Christians in that self-avowed “buckle of the Bible Belt.” This former Northerner actually believed people when they told her they were Christians. Yet, so many of the self-proclaimed faithful had a poor working knowledge of Scripture and lived excessive lifestyles – big hair, big, manufactured ta tas, and big houses. Finally, I decided to no longer believe or disbelieve their claims. Only God knew their hearts, and it was far more comforting to leave it up to Him. I had spent too much energy trying to reconcile their actions with their purported faith, so I simply gave up.
I have no idea about Ergun Caner’s childhood faith in Islam, and quite frankly, I couldn't care less. He is now a Christian, and it is his Christian walk that matters. But, I do believe it is important to listen to the claims of Muslims who report that he doesn’t say the prayers correctly and that he speaks gibberish when he prays in their language. If this is true, then Caner should shut his mouth and stop pretending he is something that he is not.
Which brings me to the second point.
Even, or, perhaps, in Jesus’ economy, especially, non-Christians should be able to openly question who we are and what we say.
Many people, including those at Liberty University, totally ignored the comments by Muslims that Caner was speaking gibberish and lying about his background. One supposed Christian commenter on another blog claimed that Liberty did not have to pay attention to what some non-Christians were saying about Caner.
HUH???????????? Isn’t there a verse in the Bible that says we should always be prepared to give a reason for the hope that we have? Didn’t the Apostles address concerns raised by those outside the faith? The Bible makes it explicitly clear that we are to live out our witness in front of a watching world. Furthermore, because we are sinners, we are guaranteed, on occasion, to blow our witness before men.
What do we do when that happens? Do we act like the heathen and hide our sin and refuse to address it? Do we contact our lawyers and come up with some excuse why it is perfectly legal to do what we did? It is an embarrassment to our Lord when Christians act just like the world.
We claim transparency and hide in the darkness. We assert that we are sinners who are saved by grace, but pretend we are better than those who are not saved. We maintain that Christ has transformed us, yet turn a blind eye to our continual need for transformation. And so, the world views us with skepticism.
Do we deserve such cynicism? Absolutely! We claim that man was created in the image of God, yet we denigrate those who would dare to confront us. We must respect and treat kindly those who would disagree with us. But we must go one step further. We are obligated to engage and answer questions that the world might have for us. Even if those questions might be difficult. Even if the answers to those questions will hurt and embarrass us.
Do we really believe that a non-Christian has nothing to offer us? Do we actually deem that an unbeliever is incapable of confronting us with the truth? If so, we are guilty of profound arrogance and, as such, are worthy of the scorn heaped upon us. We become the embodiment of hypocrisy.
Instead. we should stand before the world and admit that we have all fallen short of the glory of God. Then, we should confess our sin and failings and ask for forgiveness from those we have offended. We should be known for our humility instead of our hubris. Sadly, we evangelicals are increasingly known for our judgmental, holier than thou condemnation of the world.
Make no mistake about it. Liberty University has been hurt by this scandal. The home of the former “Moral Majority” has become known as the ”Immoral Like the Rest of Us Slugs Majority”. And it will be quite some time before this incident will be forgotten by a cynical world. That scorn will also carry over to other evangelical groups and churches. We are truly the body of Christ. What is done by one part of the body affects the other parts. Caner’s scandal becomes the church’s scandal. Our question is this. Can we learn from this? And is anyone at Liberty going to ask for forgiveness?
” But, I do believe it is important to listen to the claims of Muslims who report that he doesn’t say the prayers correctly and that he speaks gibberish when he prays in their language. If this is true, then Caner should shut his mouth and stop pretending he is something that he is not.”
I disagree and will tell you why. First of all, it is one thing to get expertise on whether he was speaking Arabic or gibberish. but it is quite another to ask a Muslim if he was really ever a Muslim for many reasons but just one simple reason is because most Muslims do not even know the Koran. Most cannot read it in Arabic which is considered the only true translation.
Who would we seek out to ask if a person was a true Christian? Rick Warren? John Piper? Ted Haggard? Caner?
Or, would we go to the Word to see what the Word says is a Christian?
If you want to know what is Islam and a Muslim. then look at what their ‘holy books’ teach. Most Muslims will tell you it is a religion of peace. But then, that is not the whole story and it certainly can be proven different by reading the Koran.
As another blogger pointed out and this is key: Islam is an ideology. Like a “religion”, it is a ‘belief’ system and many Muslims have no clue what their holy books say. They believe what they have been told or modeled. As bin Laden said, More Muslims need to know the Koran so they can do their duty.
It has also been documented that many Muslims become radical AFTER living in a democracy. This was the case with most of the 9/11 terrorists and continues to be the case with those who are caught plotting and planning. Most were raised in moderate Muslim homes in Muslim country’s but became radical when living in a democracy such as Germany, England, Spain or USA.
So, Islam is an ideology but Christianity is a relationship. There is no comparison at all to Islam. We have the Holy Spirit which illuminates the truth of the Word to us.
But to know what Islam really teaches we must read their holy books. To ask what is a real Christian, we must know the Word and have the indwelling Holy Spirit.
A Muslim is the last person I would ask if someone is a real Muslim or not. On another note, there is a Muslim commenter who claims to be a former Christian. And a “serious” former Christian. Do you believe that is possible? Should we ask this commenter what is a true Christian?
I would ask a Muslim if a certain ritual was described correctly or not but even then, i would reserve judgement. We had Muslims from different sects in our home and the differences were glaring based upon the sect and what country they came from.
Dee wrote — “This former Northerner actually believed people when they told her they were Christians. Yet, so many of the self-proclaimed faithful had a poor working knowledge of Scripture and lived excessive lifestyles – big hair, big, manufactured ta tas, and big houses. Finally, I decided to no longer believe or disbelieve their claims. Only God knew their hearts, and it was far more comforting to leave it up to Him.”
The longer I live, the more I realize that when someone legitimately professes Christianity, the only thing you can really count on is that they’re going to be in heaven with you one day. Any fruit, Christian lifestyle, maturity, etc is all over the map. No guarantees!
Nickname
The problem is: what is a legitimate profession? I am not so sure that a claim of belief means that they are “legitimate.” The devil believes as well.
And do I think they will be with me in heaven? Which “they” is the question.
Thanks for your comment.
Hi Lydia
You and I agree on this. Perhaps it is they way I worded it.The point I was trying to make is this. If some Muslims were raising concerns about Caner speaking gibberish (I always thought it was spelled jibberish but spell check disagrees) and that he was not reciting the prayers correctly, I think it would be in order to check out their claims. However, I would never get into an argument of Shi’ite versus Sunni Muslims. I would assume both believe that they are the true Muslims.
I understand about the different sects within Islam. I also believe that some Muslims are mislead about some of the verses in the Koran just like some Christians are mislead by bad or non-Christian pastors. I have read a great deal of the Koran and believe it to advocate for violence. As such, it is a dangerous book.
Do all self professing Muslims believe that they should be violent? I don’t think so but, I hasten to add, that does not mean they are interpreting the Koran correctly.
As for the “former” Christian, now Muslim, I would definitely ask him what he means by a “serious” Christian. However, I have asked that question of “former” Christians on exchristian.net. Some of the answers I received about what they used to believe were theologically correct when it came to an orthodox point of view. So, I have decided that I can’t always see what is deep in a person’s heart and leave that one to God.
We are blessed to have the Holy Spirit guiding us and illuminating our path. I know that the Muslims do not have such a Being.
Dee, Thanks for explaining. I think it was a big mistake for some to suggest Caner was never a Muslim. I am not saying he was a devout Muslim (I am not even sure what that is). However, arguing that he was never a real Muslim gave cover to Liberty when we should have been focusing on the details of his many lies and the ‘gibberish’.
Liberty can say, “Yes, he was a former Muslim” and who can prove different?
But how can Liberty make sense of all the differing details about his life? They canot. That should have been the focus. As it is, those details got lost in the focus on whether he was EVER a Muslim. Which was a red herring that Liberty and Caner bloggers were more than happy to focus on.
You know, being in OHIO, he was more Muslim than you and I in the 1970-80’s even if he only went to the Islamic Cultural Center for parties every other weekend with his Dad. You know what I mean?
Lydia
But the real question is, “Did he eat bacon?” 🙂
I absolutely agree that the Muslim thing was a red herring and far too many people fell for it. The issue was the lies!!!
Not sure, but seeing his HS drama pics, I would say he liked to “ham” it up.
As a red-blooded Southern American male, I am dissapointed that big, manufactured ta tas are not considered a sign of genuine spirtuality.
Not just in HS drama — his flair for the dramatic (and the embellishments that go woth it) is evident in his sermons also. 🙂
Junkster
You nut! I just finished watching the O’Reilly Factor. He had a general on who was speaking about the Rolling Stone article that led to demise of General McChrystal. His name…General Tata. I kid you not! I almost fell off my chair, laughing. No wonder he became a soldier. He probably wanted access to weapons to stave off the inevitable jokes.
Dee — Sorry to have confused the issue. I used the term “legitimate profession” in order to differentiate between people who are truly Christians and those who just SAY they are Christians — and only God knows the difference! So let me rephrase — I no longer have expectations of seeing evidence of knowledge, behavior, maturity, or growth from any Christian — the only thing I know for sure about a Christian is that he/she will be in heaven with me one day. If they do exhibit maturity, understanding of scripture, fruit of the spirit, etc — it’s wonderful, but there are no guarantees that they will behave in what I consider “Christianly ways”.
For years, I expected a certain base-line behavior or biblical knowledge from every Christian I met. But experience has shown that just because someone is a Christian, it doesn’t mean they will behave ethically or correctly in every situation. I don’t say that to EXCUSE anyone’s bad behavior. I guess I’m just no longer as idealistic as I once was!
Thanks…
I was once watching CNN and a UN peace keeping leader (in Kosovo) was being interviewed. His name was Colonel Coward.
General Tata
Colonel Coward with the UN…is that not perfect with their blue helmets and white tanks?
All we need is Sargent ScardyCat.
Nickname
You are just like me, especially in terms of the idealism part. I once met with an elder, one of the good guys, and he told me the longer he had been an elder, the fewer Christians he actually believed existed. I think the surprise in heaven will be that there are people there we didn’t expect and there will be people not there that we expected.
My guess is, based on your comment, you will be there! 🙂
Lydia
Colonel Coward, huh? Leads on to wonder why he was involved with peacekeeping.
Thanks, Dee. As I read back over the comments and your response, it hit my that what God wants me to do is just love crazy Christians and nutcase people wherever they are. Someone who modeled that for me flew to Jesus today — I’m overwhelmed by the love she showed in accepting people just where they were, walking them a little closer to the Lord, helping them through the door of salvation, and showing light to their path — one of the unsung heroes of the faith. She knew nothing of celebrity pastorhood — but she knew that the Greatest Celebrity didn’t need for her to tweak her testimony to make it more dramatic, she knew that Jesus really didn’t need her to rewrite her life to make it more tantalizing for others to follow her. She just knew His love — and that was more than enough for folks to follow her towards the Lord. Oh, if celebrity Christians and church CEO’s would embrace that, the fire that breaks out will surpass anything they every tried to light by fudging the facts.
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