Pastor Rashan Wilson Assaults the Mother of His Three Children While Claiming to Be Married to Another Women.

https://www.amazon.com/Things-Woman-Needs-Her-Man/dp/0989248038/ref=sr_1_2/138-1518150-3057822?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1547823822&sr=1-2&refinements=p_27%3ARashan+L.+WilsonLink

“I don’t think people realize how much strength it takes to pull your own self out of a poisonous situation with someone you love deeply. So if you’ve done that today or any day, I’m proud of you.” link


 

Shanaqua Johnson’s relationship to Pastor Rashan Wilson

Shanaqua has two children and is pregnant with her third child. According to information that we have received, it is alleged that the father of all three children of her children is Rashan Lamar Wilson. She is not married to him.

Wilson is the lead pastor of a mixed congregation at Southside Baptist Church in Charleston, SC. The name of his church within Southside Baptist is Southside Impact Church.

Below is the screen shot from the SBC Church Search verifying that Southside Baptist is currently a member of the SBC.

In this article in the Christian Post, Pastor accused of choking woman pregnant with his child at Southside Impact Church, Rashan claims to be the pastor of Southside Impact Church which is located at the same address as Southside Baptist Church. On this Facebook page, it appears that this IMPACT service is sponsored by Southside Baptist Church.

Here is a link to a Facebook page on Impact Church

At Rashan Wilson’s website, he claims to be married to someone other than Shanaqua.

Rashan is married to the former Dashonna Marie Bruton, and their family of five children (Jada, Khloe, Savannah, Caleb & Joshua) are blessed and highly favored.

It is our understanding that one of the kids named is Shanaqua’s child and that two others are by women other than Dashonna. From the article in the Christian Post:

David Aylor, Wilson’s attorney and friend, told The Post and Courier that Wilson is known as an upstanding and helpful member of the his church and wider community. He also said he believes the pastor will be exonerated.

“He’s not only a client, he’s a friend,” Aylor said. “What so far has been reported would be a horrendous example of domestic violence; however, when the true facts come out, we believe that (Pastor) Wilson will be exonerated of any criminal act as he looks forward to returning to his church and the community that he has diligently served and will continue to.

It is my understanding that some in the church may be aware that Wilson fathered Shanaqua’s oldest child but they may not know about her current pregnancy and her other child.

Financial concerns

It is alleged that Wilson has not paid child support. This has led to serious financial needs for Shanaqua and the children. We understand that she works two part time jobs during the evening hours and is hoping to save enough money to put towards a downpayment on a rental. In the meantime, she has friends who have taken her in. They help with the children when she works.

Shanaqua was recently attacked and strangled by Wilson which was documented by local media.

Nexstar Broadcasting/Tim Renaud reported on the assault in Pastor arrested for strangling assaulting pregnant woman outside downtown church.

A Charleston-area pastor has been arrested and charged after police say he strangled a woman to the point of unconsciousness earlier this week.

The incident happened late Monday evening at Southside Impact Church on Beaufain Street.

The victim, who is eight weeks pregnant with the suspect’s child, arrived at the church to drop off two of their other children. But once she arrived, an argument ensued.

According to an affidavit, 35-year-old Rashan Lamar Wilson, who is a pastor at the church, lunged towards the victim, Shanaqua Genise Johnson, and both put his hands around her neck and squeezed tightly until she was unconscious for an undetermined amount of time.

Johnson reportedly fell to the concrete and hit her head on the ground, where she suffered an abrasion on the right side of her forehead.

Wilson was arrested and booked. It appears this pastor has quite a history.

According to court records, Wilson has been arrested on a number of other occasions ranging from failure to pay child support to driving under suspension and providing false information to police.

Shanaqua is cooperating with police.

Shanaqua made the courageous decision to carry her pregnancies to term.

Shanaqua has worked very hard to provide for her children in spite of the difficulties in doing so and needs help in getting on her feet.

Can the SBC intervene on behalf of Shanaqua and her children?

Since it appears that Southside Baptist Church sponsors the Impact Church, we wonder if the SBC might intervene.The SBC has many resources available.

Ashley and I will look into this situation and report back what we learn.

Ashely Easter link comments:

I was horrified by the assault and ill-treatment by Pastor Wilson and equally horrified that the assault had been published in the local paper but neither church has allegedly reached out to offer support to Shanaqua

My question is, what is the SBC church going to do now? Since they sponsor Impact church and even advertise Impact worship, they have some responsibility in this situation. The SBC believes that men should provide for their families. They also claim to be pro-life and pro-family, but when the chips are down will they put their money where their mouth is?


Comments

Pastor Rashan Wilson Assaults the Mother of His Three Children While Claiming to Be Married to Another Women. — 157 Comments

  1. Question, have their been any churches that responded quickly to support the victims in cases similar to this or cases in general?

    It’s a little over five months and no help is being provided. Is the SBC realying heavily on “Christians don’t sue Christians” to intentionally not respond?

    Have some of the churches hidden behind the legal wall so long, they no longer know how to respond in a biblical manner?

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  2. Concerning the book: There’s obviously a play on words with penis size and choosing not to say “100.” It’s pretty disgusting for a book cover, coupled with his ridiculous facial expression.

    The SBC will hide behind autonomy. No question.

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  3. Sorry, folks, I can’t seem to post both arrest records in one comment. The links I posted are for the 2010 and 2013 arrest records of what is apparently this same guy for failure to pay child support.

    Ahem. Aside from the guy being a monster ………..

    The SBC powers that be will not hesitate to condemn a Christian woman with high moral values for addressing a church on Mother’s Day while a man can openly commit multiple accounts of adultery and father children out of wedlock can still be the pastor of an SBC church.
    Will anyone (the men, of course) in the SBC even notice this man’s most recent arrest?

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  4. To answer your question: NO, “the SBC” cannot intervene in this situation. It has zero authority over this church. At most, it could issue a statement, which some might criticize as “not doing enough,” but that would just reveal a misunderstanding about what the SBC is and how it works.

    Now, the local church here that oversees the “impact” service can and should be involved here to make sure that this person should not be in leadership, if it is true that EITHER (a) he attacked a woman, or (b) he has recently fathered children with this woman and hid it from his church.

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  5. Andy Williams: NO, “the SBC” cannot intervene in this situation. It has zero authority over this church. At most, it could issue a statement, which some might criticize as “not doing enough,” but that would just reveal a misunderstanding about what the SBC is and how it works.

    Frankly, I think you see too little by focusing on the autonomy game. There Is absolutely nothing that prevents the SBC in offering charity to a mother snd href children. I would love to hear from some people in the SBC who think outside the safe little box they have crested.

    This autonomy thing has been carried too far and there are lots of people in the media and legal communities who are beginning to question just how *autonomy* works. The fact that you believe the SBC couldn’t intervene and help a woman financially show just how wrong this whole thing is.

    Seriously, do you think Jesus would be proud of the SBC for turning their heads when, in fact, they could do something?

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  6. Brian: Have some of the churches hidden behind the legal wall so long, they no longer know how to respond in a biblical manner?

    I think many churches and denominations use the *its a court case* to obscure the fact that they could offer help. They just don’t want to.

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  7. Southside Impact Church FB Page 12/5/2018

    Southside Impact Church is with Ra’Shan L. Wilson.

    “It is said that Behind every successful church is a selfless pastor willing to give himself fully to the flock. Pastor Ra’Shan, your ministry has been one of sacrificial love through the years, and we appreciate you.

    There’s no better way for us to wish such a cherished gift of SouthSide Impact a Happy Birthday, than to offer prayers of thanksgiving to God for placing you in our midst. Pastor, you are truly a blessing to this entire church family, this City, the World! May God bless you on your special day.”

    https://www.facebook.com/impactchurchcharleston

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  8. Same FB account post October 28, 2018

    “We are excited about what God is doing in the community, in the city, the region! Pastor Ra’Shan receives the Key to the City presented by the Mayor of Charleston. We appreciate all of his hard work and dedication.”

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  9. drstevej,

    Geez. Watch the end of the Lady B Recap video… “Pastor” gives us a taste of what highly favored sounds like. Geez. Hey, JD, I don’t care what your church writes about women in ministry…. if Summit doesn’t take a stand and post something on its Twitter condemning this crap, then you’re just shameless and care nothing about women. Hey JD, we don’t need the SBC to respond… how about Summit just take the initiative and serve this family directly and set an example for the convention? It would sure the beat the hell out of some tone-deaf position paper. Jesus, by the way, never wrote a paper … everything he did was action. Caio.

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  10. If anyone out there has contact information, maybe someone should make the South Carolina Baptist Convention aware of Wilson’s criminal record and the way he treats his mistress and their illegitamate children.

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  11. So someone help me here. The SBC can kick a church out of its organization for allowing a Female pastor, but they “can’t do anything” when a Male pastor is abusive and has children by two women at the same time? And they can’t in any way help these women? That is just peachy! The SBC is a useless I institution.

    Andy Williams,

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  12. Andy Williams: To answer your question: NO, “the SBC” cannot intervene in this situation. It has zero authority over this church.

    That’s not true. The SBC has loads of indirect authority. Thing is, they will boot a church out of the fellowship for having a woman as lead pastor. But they won’t kick out churches that have been PROVEN to look the other way when leaders are abusive. I seriously doubt this is the first time Wilson laid hands on another person in anger, and denying child support is definitely financial abuse. Someone in leadership knew SOMETHING and looked the other way.

    We have all seen the proof that active SBC churches knowingly harbor abusers, and only toss them out when they get caught… but they remain SBC members. The SBC does have influence and COULD take actions to encourage churches work harder at identifying and holding abusers accountable… but the SBC is more worried about the “culture war” than actually preventing abuse. A recent Lifeway poll revealed that many church members DON’T want the truth to come out, and DON’T value protecting victims.

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  13. dee,

    Dee, you are correct that I was not thinking of financial help whe I responded, but rather some kind of other intervention/consequences, etc.

    However, while you are correct that there is nothing stopping the SBC from sending this woman some financial assistance, there are likely hundreds, of not more women in SBC churches in similar straits, and there is no way the sbc has any guidelines or procedures for determining who gets that kind of help. It was not set up for that. Would it be based on those that make news?

    There is nothing “preventing” lots of organizations from helping this woman, but most won’t, and can’t be expected to.

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  14. Bridget: So someone help me here. The SBC can kick a church out of its organization for allowing a Female pastor, but they “can’t do anything” when a Male pastor is abusive and has children by two women at the same time? And they can’t in any way help these women? That is just peachy! The SBC is a useless I institution.

    The Southern Baptist Convention can’t kick a church out of the organization. However, the state conventions can and do kick churches out ……… usually, because of female pastors.

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  15. This “pastor” needs the book thrown at him and I’m glad he’s exposed. The SBC needs to expose him and the church should lose whatever benefits they get until a better pastor is in place. However I have a little less sympathy for the victim but not in regards to the violence….that is a crime. But in terms of sleeping around with a man she knows is married….effects your children…and is an example of why she as a sexually immoral woman creates a lot of problems for herself and her children. What a mess.

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  16. Abigail,

    Reading this, in addition to dismay at the dreadful acts of the man, the thought occurred, “daughters of Jerusalem, guard your hearts.” You don’t know that the man who seems to be kindly interested in you is not a predator. That counsel is about 3000 years old, but ever new; it’s a little perplexing, or dismaying, that we need to re-learn it in every generation.

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  17. Andy Williams: there are likely hundreds, of not more women in SBC churches in similar straits, and there is no way the sbc has any guidelines or procedures for determining who gets that kind of help. It was not set up for that. Would it be based on those that make news?

    There is nothing “preventing” lots of organizations from helping this woman, but most won’t, and can’t be expected to.

    Do you actually believe that there is some risk to the SBC if it helps single mothers and crime victims? And do you think nobody else helps them? Even Gateway in Dallas, one of the most infamous* megas in the country, has a single parents’ ministry.

    You might be concerned that funneling money to the preacher’s unmarried girlfriend looks like an attempt to endorse his bad habits or buy her silence. This need not be the case. It’s easy enough for a church to fire the preacher, openly offer financial support to his needy children, pay the lawyer who takes on the woman’s assault case, etc.

    *Gateway says a failure to tithe will let demons get inside you through little doors.

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  18. This case is an example of how so much of orthodoxy, is merey made up as we (the Church) travel through history. “Biblical” is just an empty label. I assume when I hear “biblical”, that a weakly supported doctrine is about to be vocalized.

    A random thought/s on this situation:

    Mr. Wilson is ironically NOT disqualified from ministry on a marriage related issue.
    Pastors and Kings of Israel, are the only two categories of individuals not allowed to have multiple wives, but polygamy is not prohibited in general. Mr. Wilson is not alleged to have more then one wife.

    Regarding physical assault:

    Mr. Wilson could be discribed as
    episkopos-ἐπίσκοπος. (a bishop)
    An episkopos may not be a “striker” or one who smites, in older English. However, the allegation is one of strangulation, not striking or smiting.

    Again, Mr. Wilson’s fitness for ministry is open to interpretation. That interpretation, will depend on the priorities, and preferred outcomes, of the persons vested with the authority to interpret.

    Mr. Wilson is not a SBC priority, so far, it would seem.

    That leaves the fact that a bishop must be blameless. So far he is.
    Blame is an action of another party, not Mr. Wilson. No figure from the SBC, with the capacity to do so, has been reported to have brought blame. On this point as well, Mr. Wilson does not appear to be a priority.

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  19. Abigail,

    You are correct, having children out of wedlock is a sin.

    What we don’t know yet was there relationship originally pastor and parishioner and he counseled her in his own non-biblical way?

    Second, was she abused/molested as a child? I ask this for two reasons. First, your concept of what is right and wrong sexually can get skewed. Second, predatory males look for female survivors of childhood molestation.

    Again, you are correct, she’s an adult responsible for her own actions. But as a pastor Rashan Wilson could have pointed her in the right direction.

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  20. Friend,

    1. Gateway is an individual church (with campuses, I’m sure. There are numerous churches affiliated with the SBC that also have single parent ministries.

    2. The thought of giving her money looking bad had not crossed my mind. In fact, it would likely receive a lot of public commendation for doing so, but would also immediately be flooded with calls and requests to do so in hundreds of other cases.

    3. Now, If you make an argument that the SBC needs to open transparency on its executive finances and salaries, so the churches know where their money goes, I would agree. If you want to argue that the SBC’s leadership directions over the past decade have possibly caused more problems than they have solved, I might agree. But if you are arguing that “the SBC” (still not sure what exactly you would mean by that) NEEDS to step into this specific situation and provide financial help to this single mother, that simply doesn’t recognize what the sbc is, and how it relate to it’s churches.

    4. The most likely possibility for help might be this: the regional staff person who works for the South Carolina state baptist convention might hear of the situation, try to meet with the pastor of this south side church and offer advice. He might even ask the local association, or other local SBC churches to help her out financially. He might even ask the state convention if there is money that could be used. But that is as high as it would go. It would be locally based. So that is a way in which “the SBC” might more likely help.

    5. I suggest anyone unfamiliar with Baptist inter-church relationships read this post by Arminian non-southern Baptist Roger Olsen: https://www.patheos.com/blogs/rogereolson/2019/02/why-sexual-abuse-within-baptist-churches-is-not-the-same/ (If you dis-allow hyperlinks, I appologize and you can remove it)

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  21. Nathan Priddis:

    Again, Mr. Wilson’s fitness for ministry is open to interpretation. That interpretation, will depend on the priorities, and preferred outcomes, of the persons vested with the authority to interpret.

    Mr. Wilson is not a SBC priority, so far, it would seem.

    To clarify: That authority here that will be making the determination of fitness for ministry is NOT the SBC. It is the local church he belongs to.

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  22. mot: I do not understand the last part of your statement.

    What I mean is that in all likelihood, this local, autonomous Baptist church partners with the SBC, as well as likely several other organizations for various types of partnered ministries. Neither the SBC, or any of the other organizations, appointed or hired this pastor. There’s no reason to demand that any of them offer money to help. They could, but likely won’t, and can’t realistically be expect s to.

    Hope that helps.
    -Andy

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  23. Andy Williams,

    Thank you for your detailed reply. I claim zero expertise on the SBC. My point about Gateway was not about its affiliation but about its ministry.

    I appreciate knowing that some structure exists for potentially helping this woman. It seems, though, that an atomized structure will always have trouble solving a problem. It can’t smoothly address a problem in unity, or as resolutely autonomous congregations.

    You might wish to reflect on your earlier point that “there are likely hundreds, of not more women in SBC churches in similar straits, and there is no way the sbc has any guidelines or procedures for determining who gets that kind of help. It was not set up for that.” Surely you don’t mean Southern Baptists will let a hungry man starve because there might be more. This brought to mind the feeding of the 5000, the importunate widow, and also this passage from Matthew 26:

    Now while Jesus was at Bethany in the house of Simon the leper, a woman came to him with an alabaster jar of very costly ointment, and she poured it on his head as he sat at the table. But when the disciples saw it, they were angry and said, ‘Why this waste? For this ointment could have been sold for a large sum, and the money given to the poor.’ But Jesus, aware of this, said to them, ‘Why do you trouble the woman? She has performed a good service for me. For you always have the poor with you, but you will not always have me. By pouring this ointment on my body she has prepared me for burial. Truly I tell you, wherever this good news is proclaimed in the whole world, what she has done will be told in remembrance of her.’

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  24. Andy Williams: To clarify: That authority here that will be making the determination of fitness for ministry is NOT the SBC. It is the local church he belongs to.

    Is there no way to defrock this guy (assuming the stories are true)? Is he free to seek employment by one SBC congregation after another? Please tell me I’m wrong. I’m asking sincerely, not trying to get your goat.

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  25. Friend,

    I am sorry to say, you are wrong.

    Under Baptist polity, only the church that ordained him could withdraw it. He absolutely is free to continue seeking employment as most Baptist churches recognize ordination by other churches (though I have heard of some that don’t). Ideally one would only be ordained for one’s own church under Baptist polity, but it hasn’t gone that way.

    Of course Andy can answer this, but as a former Southern Baptist myself, who still “listens in”, I know even the poobahs at SBC Voices had a column over this very fact recently.

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  26. Friend,

    The SBC has absolutely no control over individual churches or pastors. It is simply a mish-mash of baptist churches who decided to get together and combine their monies to fund missionaries and proclaim the gospel.

    The state conventions are a little bit different. They can remove a church’s membership in the convention, but they can’t “defrock” a pastor.

    It doesn’t take much to be “ordained” in baptist circles – all it takes is a majority vote from a church congregation, really……… doesn’t matter if the candidate is seminary trained, or a high school drop out (I know a few of each!).

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  27. Andy Williams: To answer your question: NO, “the SBC” cannot intervene in this situation.

    What the SBC CAN do is compile that list of abusers, that the big boys have been shrugging their shoulders at for more than a decade, and put Wilson’s name on that list!

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  28. Magistos,

    Thank you for your explanation and the links. The RCC became notorious for moving predatory priests around via a secret network in the elaborate hierarchy. Sobering to think that a parallel process exists in the SBC, but without the hierarchy, the predatory pastor has to be something of an entrepreneur.

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  29. Nancy2(aka Kevlar): It doesn’t take much to be “ordained” in baptist circles – all it takes is a majority vote from a church congregation, really…

    Thanks for your response as well. At one point I wanted to take courses at a mainline seminary, and was invited to learn about the ordination process. That tradition gives the local bishop the power to ordain anyone the bishop perceives to have a vocation; the Spirit is allowed to move. Most candidates, though, have four years of college, a one- or two-year process of discernment in their home congregations, and three years of seminary before ordination. Each candidate has a small discernment committee that prayerfully sees him or her through the whole process. (And they can be defrocked by the bishop.)

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  30. Nancy2(aka Kevlar): that list of abusers, that the big boys have been shrugging their shoulders at

    Problem is [for the “big boys”, that is], how many of the “big boys” would be on that list? And/or their “big boy” BFFs?

    Someone big and important was just outed at a Christian university in the environs of Virginia, paying off a “big boy” to cover his tracks, oh, photos.

    It was not that long ago that “big boys” were being memorialized in stained glass, but then one (or more?) was outed there, too.

    The gentlmen who advocate for the list, are likely not on the list. The rest are suspect. There it is – outed. Silence/hiding/covering-up may be the reveal.

    Behavior may be legal, but is it “church”, or the Body of Christ?

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  31. Friend: That tradition gives the local bishop the power to ordain anyone the bishop perceives to have a vocation; the Spirit is allowed to move. Most candidates, though, have four years of college, a one- or two-year process of discernment in their home congregations, and three years of seminary before ordination.

    I know a 14-year-old high school student who’s been ordained in the SBC. As long as they are male, they can probably find a church to ordain them. However, a woman with a DMin would still be ineligible.

    As a former student of SEBTS, I met many other students who were clearly unqualified to be pastors. Two of my classmates were arrested for child molestation. One of my classmates stalked a friend, and would walk up to any woman on campus and inform her of the “rating” he gave her on her looks. He graduated, as far as I know, after multiple women on campus reported him. The handling of the assault of my classmate Megan Lively was one of the main reasons Paige Patterson was fired from SWBTS.

    Ordination means nothing in the SBC except that you are male with a piece of paper. You don’t need character to be a Southern Baptist pastor. And that is why the SBC is losing members fast and I believe will eventually fall apart.

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  32. jyjames:
    Behavior may be legal, but is it “church”, or the Body of Christ?

    I don’t think we can trust any of them to do the job of actual ministry. I don’t think we can trust the SBC to protect anyone but pastors and celebrities.

    How can we help this woman and her children and bypass them?

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  33. Bridget: Then how can they vote out churches that call female pastors?

    The state conventions do that. And they could vote to disassociate with this church. And I don’t know, maybe they will, but those things usually take awhile since most conventions only meet once a year in the summer.

    But these things really don’t punish the church all that much. This is why Christians need to take crimes to the police instead of hiding them and hold those people accountable.

    Hopefully, this guy will be prosecuted to the extent of the law.

    An interesting tidbit–Most of his books are self published. But on the 99 Things book, his publisher name is using the copyright of a major company, Mac Publishing. Mac Publishing is owned by Apple and only publishes stuff that benefits Apple as a company, like Mac World magazine. They don’t publish books.

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  34. ishy: Ordination means nothing in the SBC except that you are male with a piece of paper. You don’t need character to be a Southern Baptist pastor. And that is why the SBC is losing members fast and I believe will eventually fall apart.

    Well, let’s see. The men don’t have to have seminary training, but they present themselves as the sole authority. Sounds like a formula for losing knowledge over time.

    Forgive me for being astounded. Given all the Baptist seminary problems discussed here, I just assumed everybody went (even if they did not have rigorous academic training, a psych eval, etc.). The few SBC clergy I have known are great, btw.

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  35. Friend: The men don’t have to have seminary training, but they present themselves as the sole authority. Sounds like a formula for losing knowledge over time.

    More than knowledge, it’s a formula for men with no boundaries whatsoever.

    CJ Mahaney didn’t even go to college. I think he has a high school diploma. And look how they’ve protected him.

    There are decent Southern Baptist pastors, but most are from before the New Calvinist takeover. However, even many of those have buried their heads in the sand over the major problems in their denomination and refused to take a stand.

    I’m thinking of one like that right now, who will retire soon and leave his church at the mercy of some SBTS grad with a power complex and a handbook on “revitalizing” the church. I have close friends in that church, and they just blow me off when I try to talk to them about these things, saying there church would never fall victim to that. That’s what I thought before my former church was taken over. And I was there through the whole pastoral search process. He lied through his teeth. You can’t prepare for that unless you actually believe it can happen.

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  36. ishy: Ordination means nothing in the SBC except that you are male with a piece of paper.

    Gender + paper = pastor: salary, leading a “church”, “teaching” the word, disciplining the church members, title & collar, reverred community member, conference speaker, etc.?

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  37. Bridget: Then how can they vote out churches that call female pastors?

    The state conventions did that , not the national SBC. For example, a church in Tennessee was voted out by the Tennessee Baptist convention last year because it the church chose a female pastor. (And, as I’m sure you know, most baptists believe that a female pastor/preacher is “unbiblical”.) ……….

    If a church is not a member of a state baptist convention, it cannot send messengers to the Southern Baptist Convention —– IOW, when a church is kicked out of the state convention, it ceases to be part of the SBC.

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  38. Andy Williams: They could, but likely won’t, and can’t realistically be expect s to.

    No wonder the SBC has such a reputation. Why would expect that they would go out of their way to show compassion? Instead, let’s throw $500,000 at Ronnie Floyd and pat ourselves on our backs as being enlightened.

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  39. Abigail: However I have a little less sympathy for the victim but not in regards to the violence….that is a crime. But in terms of sleeping around with a man she knows is married….effects your children…and is an example of why she as a sexually immoral woman creates a lot of problems for herself and her children.

    I’m waiting for one more statement from you since yo are concerned about the morals of this woman. ….Have you thought of it yet?……..

    How about congratulating her for keeping her children as opposed to aborting them? How about trying to figure out what happened in her life that would cause her to trust a pastor who was corrupt?

    These children are here, now. They are being cared for at the home of friends, etc. Do you not have compassion on them? Aren’t you glad that they are will their mother as opposed to being dumped on the *system?* She loves them and is fighting for them.

    This is a chance to put our money where out mouth is. So many of us are pro-life. Some have protested at abortion clinics. But, when one woman does what we think is the right thing and keeps her kids, we scold her for that as well.

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  40. Friend: Well, let’s see. The men don’t have to have seminary training, but they present themselves as the sole authority. Sounds like a formula for losing knowledge over time.

    Just for the record, not all of these men assume a position of “sole authority”. We still have a few good ones left ….. humble ones who will go out of their way to help others, both spiritually and physically. I can think of 4 in my neck of the woods right off the bat.
    I will take the liberty of telling you about 2 of them that I have known my whole life, just because …… well, I want people to know that there are still a few good ones left and it does my heart good to share that.

    Pastor #1. I graduated from high school with this man’s daughter. The daughter drives my niece’s school bus and her husband is an excellent mechanic …… and the daughter and SIL run a lawn care business on the side.
    My first memories of this pastor were way back when worked as a mechanic at my grandmother’s brother’s garage. One time he fixed the muffler on my ’78 T-Bird when I was a teenager, and wouldn’t charge me for it.
    His wife is a registered nurse and two of her sisters are also friends of mine. When this man felt called to preach, he and his wife talked things over. He quit his job and she put him through bible college (not a seminary).
    At a comp church that is very strict on women’s “roles”, I have often heard him that that he and his wife are equal partners. When my husband was out of commission with a broken jaw, the pastor and the daughter came over and insisted on mowing our 4 acre yard for free —– wouldn’t even take money for the gas! Even before that, I thought the world of the whole family.

    Pastor #2. This one was a real character (still is, but in a good way). I grew up with him. We were in the same grade at school. My grandparents babysat him, 2 of his brothers, and me for 4 years. Boy, did we fight, and when we weren’t fighting, we were competing. Uhm, uhm, the stories I could tell on him!
    Well, he dropped out of school when we went to high school —- and he’d gotten in with the wrong crowd before then. At about the time his wife was threatening to leave him, he caused an alcohol-induced automobile crash in which he lost an eye and one of his friends. That wreck really rocked his world. A couple of years later, he decided to preach. He is not formally educated and his grammar really stinks, but he studies the Bible (different versions) and history with dedication. He speaks humbly and from the heart. Some of the finest words I’ve ever heard spoken at a funeral were spoken by this pastor at one of my great-aunt’s funerals.

    I’m afraid men like thes are going extinct.
    Oh, and P.S. We don’t call them clergy — most of the time, we just call them brothers.

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  41. drstevej: Southside Impact Church FB Page 12/5/2018

    Southside Impact Church is with Ra’Shan L. Wilson.

    “It is said that Behind every successful church is a selfless pastor willing to give himself fully to the flock. Pastor Ra’Shan, your ministry has been one of sacrificial love through the years, and we appreciate you.

    There’s no better way for us to wish such a cherished gift of SouthSide Impact a Happy Birthday, than to offer prayers of thanksgiving to God for placing you in our midst. Pastor, you are truly a blessing to this entire church family, this City, the World! May God bless you on your special day.”

    Wow. This kind of sounds like one of those churches which ‘some have found’ to be true to scripture ‘so far to their knowledge’, which ‘doesn’t seem’ to be having the concerns we discuss here. I’m sure they ‘seem’ to thankfully strive for a healthy church environment… and as long as no one sees or talks about what’s wrong, it’s the same as if nothing was wrong, right?

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  42. Andy Williams: However, while you are correct that there is nothing stopping the SBC from sending this woman some financial assistance, there are likely hundreds, of not more women in SBC churches in similar straits

    Lots of SBC pastors have mistresses and illegitimate children, then? Peachy.

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  43. Nancy2(aka Kevlar): I’m afraid men like thes are going extinct.
    Oh, and P.S. We don’t call them clergy — most of the time, we just call them brothers.

    Nancy2, this takes me back to my early days as a Christian. As the years went by, I found myself wondering, what happened to these type of people? Fewer and farther between in my neck of the woods.

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  44. Nancy2(aka Kevlar): We don’t call them clergy — most of the time, we just call them brothers.

    A lot of TWW folks don’t like the word pastor, so I mistakenly thought that clergy would work as a general term. What term is most acceptable, especially if commenters don’t know the lingo of a church? Minister?

    Brother means so many things, and I’m not sure I can type “Brother Wilson” without adding some punctuation. Brother, Wilson!

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  45. dee: No wonder the SBC has such a reputation. Why would expect that they would go out of their way to show compassion? Instead, let’s throw $500,000 at Ronnie Floyd and pat ourselves on our backs as being enlightened.

    Dee that sentence struck me wrong also. The SBC ship is sinking and the men SBC leaders are rearranging the life boats IMO. When it finally sinks they certainly will not be able to blame ‘liberals” or women IMO.

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  46. mot,

    With respect, neither does some of the other stuff on Wartburg. Should we at least demand an investigation and open books and transparency? What about the victims of MLK Jr., if there are victims? Don’t they deserve our voice?

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  47. Bridget,

    So what if they vote them out? why would they want to be involved with the SBC anyway? The church sends the convention money not the other way around. The convention uses the churches for seminary job placement, etc, which essentially controls the churches, at that point. The SBC gave up true congregational polity years ago. It’s now a vicious cycle. I don’t understand the attraction to it unless it’s about wanting some of that sort of power.

    People who prefer top down authoritarianism in church denominations as if it’s better for everyone, confuse me. they often will tell me how much better it is while not having a clue as to what’s going on in them. No one is holding a gun to people’s heads and forcing them to go to church and support this stuff or going in blind without a clue as to how things really operate. It’s all a choice. There is a lot of misplaced trust out there with a plastic Jesus fish slapped on it.

    It’s great and needed to get the word out but after that, then what? Waiting around for the “leaders” to do the right thing? I question the entire concept of a spiritual leader.

    The institutional church does not confer salvation. But many act and operate as if it does. It’s not a sin to question the system.

    No one is mentioning the elephant in the room since the SBC switched from Neo Calvinism to SJW. I find that interesting since race and racial equity in SBC positions has been an all-consuming issue for them over the last couple of years since Neo Calvinism climaxed. Yet, Evil comes in all shapes, sizes and colors. (Gasp! How dare me mention that!) That may be a factor in ignoring this, though, based upon what I am reading from the movers and shakers.

    Best advice out there is to ditch the institutions that are really all about power and control. People really have no clue what’s actually going on in them especially when they are historically top down and one cannot even see the denominational headquarters detailed budgets and are never privy to actually what’s going on in them.

    So why isn’t this man charged with assault? Why not start a GoFundMe for her? Because it’s easier to point fingers and demand the “leaders” who are looking the other way — do something. Like children looking to their perpetual parents.

    Waiting around for the institutions to clean up their act because they are called out, always seems to end up enabling them in the long run. If they put on the right public persona at the time, then all is well? Sigh. JD Hall comes to mind as Wade pulled out all the stops to help save his ministry. They are diabolically clever! And adulting is hard for everyone. but it still remains that when the money and support dries up all this will go away. Why doesn’t it?

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  48. mot: This article does not prove these accusations are true.

    Correct. Despite the headline, the article does not claim proof:

    The FBI surveillance tapes detailing his [King’s] indiscretions are being held in a vault at the U.S. National Archives and are not due for release until 2027.

    But David Garrow, a biographer of King who won a Pulitzer Prize for his 1987 book Bearing the Cross about the Baptist minister, has unearthed the FBI summaries of the various incidents.

    FBI director J Edgar Hoover ordered the surveillance of King in an effort to undermine his power amid fears he could have links to the Communist Party.

    The intelligence service carried out surveillance on a number of civil rights figures and suspected communists and they had an interest in smearing their reputation.

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  49. John: With respect, neither does some of the other stuff on Wartburg. Should we at least demand an investigation and open books and transparency? What about the victims of MLK Jr., if there are victims? Don’t they deserve our voice?

    Oh, look! A sea lion!

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  50. John,
    It’s quite clear you haven’t read here very much, since many of the people dee have written about have been arrested and convicted, like Tom Chantry, or admitted they did exactly what victims said they did, like Andy Savage.

    Some of us here are witnesses and victims of the crimes committed by these pastors and churches.

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  51. ishy: This is why Christians need to take crimes to the police instead of hiding them and hold those people accountable.

    Hopefully, this guy will be prosecuted to the extent of the law.

    I 100% agree with this! If all the Baptist predators had been prosecuted instead of hidden the Baptist churches wouldn’t need some separate predator list.

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  52. That SBC Church Search site is SERIOUSLY out-of-date. I looked at churches for my home area. One lists a pastor that hasn’t been there in about 20 years, a couple of churches no longer exist in any form, etc. I wouldn’t put too much stock in a site saying they’re SBC.

    This guy still needs to be put in the slammer.

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  53. Bridget: I 100% agree with this! If all the Baptist predators had been prosecuted instead of hidden the Baptist churches wouldn’t need some separate predator list.

    To add to this . . .a separate list for predators in the Baptist churches would only benefit Baptist churches. It would not help other people who might be exposed to these predators outside the Baptist world. It’s actually a selfish move to try to protect those in the Baptist community, but no one else.

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  54. Friend: So what if they vote them out? why would they want to be involved with the SBC anyway?

    I’m just coming at it from a Baptist’s perspective. And pointing out the hypocrisy of autonomy, which is a complete lie if the state conventions can vote out a church that calls a female pastor, but they seem to claim autonomy when it comes to abusive pastors. As for me, I’m not Baptist and never will be.

    Lydia: but it still remains that when the money and support dries up all this will go away. Why doesn’t it?

    It has for me. I cant speak for anyone else.

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  55. Brian,

    For the purposes of knowledge and understanding I’ll continue my response in the general.

    Survivors of childhood abuse and molestation have major trust issues.

    They also retain the survival mechanism of listening to the slightest changes in voices and reading faces.

    If they finally learn to trust someone then that person does something that they take as threatening, be it real or in their mind, they pull back even more.

    Now to the hypothetical. If Shanaqua was abused and/or molested as a child, and turned to this pastor; Then he sleeps with her and assaults her in the parking lot, the chances of her kids finding salvation and having that balanced life are much less. She would shut her mind off the next time she hears someone talking about Jesus.

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  56. Bridget: If whatever organization can vote out
    a church that calls a female pastor, why cant they vote out this church if the church refuses to get rid of this immoral creep of a pastor? This is my point.

    It’s not that they can’t kick a church out — it’s just that they won’t! And, I can think of a few reasons, and you can probably guess what they are.

    1) male centricity/superiority in their version of God’s kingdom — keeping the wimmenfolk in line is far more crucial to the gospel that calling out some little slip-up some man’o’god makes
    2). covering up for and protecting their own — like Patterson and Gilyard
    3) fear.
    The Texas convention kicked a church out a while back because they learned that the pastor is a registered sex offender. That pastor is now suing the convention, claiming that what the convention is doing is “unbiblical”.

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  57. Nancy2(aka Kevlar): The Texas convention kicked a church out a while back because they learned that the pastor is a registered sex offender. That pastor is now suing the convention, claiming that what the convention is doing is “unbiblical”.

    Ugh. While I’m glad to see that the Texas convention actually did something, this is exactly why we shouldn’t just trust pastors, especially not with the “authority” the new SBC lords claim pastors have. I don’t think the SBC kicking people out will solve anything. Take it to the police, shout it on the blogs and rooftops, make potential victims aware, and start holding people accountable.

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  58. Side questions:

    1. Do any of the seminaries have courses on recognizing abuse that may be occurring in the individual parishioners homes?

    2. Are there programs for churches to do the same?

    Back to the main post. Why was Shanaqua dropping off the kids at the church, to the pastor?

    I think he was still isolating his “activities”. Either he had to have a great cover story to hide his activities or some in the church knew but didn’t care.

    There has to be some sort of mental and physical we still don’t know of yet.

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  59. Brian: Do any of the seminaries have courses on recognizing abuse that may be occurring in the individual parishioners homes?

    I took 3 counseling courses, and there was no mention of spiritual abuse at all, no mention of the accuse of children, and just a bare reference to domestic violence. What reference there was assumed the victim was not a Christian or a new Christian. They pretended like people who call themselves Christans never did bad things.

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  60. Ishy: What reference there was assumed the victim was not a Christian or a new Christian.

    The victim was not a Christian or the perpetrator was not a Christian? It makes sense to say a perpetrator is not Christian but a victim?

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  61. Bridget: The victim was not a Christian or the perpetrator was not a Christian? It makes sense to say a perpetrator is not Christian but a victim?

    The victim. The classes sort of assumed that all abuse counseling was for the purpose of witnessing to non-Christians, and that victims from outside the church would seek out pastors for counseling.

    In other words, they assumed that Christians had no abuse issues and the only people that did weren’t Christians.

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  62. Bridget,

    Now, I think they would have thought a woman in the church married to a non-Christian outside the church could be abused, but they never talked about people who called themselves Christians abusing other Christians. They’d talk about Matt. 18 in terms of disagreements between Christians, not abuse situations.

    And they did say that anyone “yoked” with a non-Christian would surely encounter abuse or unsolvable conflict from the non-Christian.

    They did everything possible to ignore the possibility that the wolves may be inside the walls and not outside.

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  63. Lydia,

    Thought of you in church. The sermon was about listening, and it focused on this verse: “A certain woman named Lydia, a worshipper of God, was listening to us; she was from the city of Thyatira and a dealer in purple cloth. The Lord opened her heart to listen eagerly to what was said by Paul” (Acts 16:14).

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  64. Brian: Survivors of childhood abuse and molestation have major trust issues.

    They also retain the survival mechanism of listening to the slightest changes in voices and reading faces.

    If they finally learn to trust someone then that person does something that they take as threatening, be it real or in their mind, they pull back even more.

    Deepest thanks to you for posting these insights. I would think that survivors of other childhood traumas often have similar traits, going through life waiting for the rug to be pulled out from under them. I have seen this in bereaved children.

    And, of course, predators are expert at spotting vulnerability.

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  65. ishy: In other words, they assumed that Christians had no abuse issues and the only people that did weren’t Christians.

    ishy: They did everything possible to ignore the possibility that the wolves may be inside the walls and not outside.

    So the blind want to help the abused and downtrodden and they are too blind to see that Christian’s have the same problems . . . this would less than helpful to anyone. And n extremely arrogant position.

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  66. Bridget: So the blind want to help the abused and downtrodden and they are too blind to see that Christian’s have the same problems . . . this would less than helpful to anyone. And n extremely arrogant position.

    Exactly. Hence all the subsequent victims from SBC churches coming forward from spiritual, physical, and sexual abuse in the past 10 years…

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  67. ishy,

    Now the SBC’s nonresponse makes sense. What happened to Shanaqua doesn’t fit their tight legalistic paradigm.

    Their paradigm says everyone sitting in the pews is a Christian.

    My own nondenominational pastor, formerly a Baptist associate pastor, says their are people in the pews every Sunday who have never accepted Christ as their Savior.

    So Bridget is right. It’s total arrogance.

    And to assume, i.e., making donkeys of themselves, that all SBC pastors are above reproach, is even a greater arrogance.

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  68. Brian: My own nondenominational pastor, formerly a Baptist associate pastor, says their are people in the pews every Sunday who have never accepted Christ as their Savior.

    Please say more. How does your church greet, include, invite, embrace (whatever applies) non-Christians?

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  69. Ishy: I took 3 counseling courses, and there was no mention of spiritual abuse at all, no mention of the accuse of children, and just a bare reference to domestic violence. What reference there was assumed the victim was not a Christian or a new Christian. They pretended like people who call themselves Christans never did bad things.

    I have a friend who is a Christian counselor who has this outlook, now it makes more sense to me. She’s also convinced that only Christians can truly be happy or thankful or good hearted.

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  70. Brian: Their paradigm says everyone sitting in the pews is a Christian.

    I don’t think this is the paradigm of all Southern Baptists, but I do think this is the “required” approach by the seminaries. I suspect instead of experienced licensed counselors with PhDs making these paradigms, it’s instead committees of megachurch pastors and large donors making them. Megachurch pastors who I am sure know better, but that wouldn’t put butts in the seats of their pews and the large amount of money in their plates.

    SiteSeer: She’s also convinced that only Christians can truly be happy or thankful or good hearted.

    I’ve known many Christians who believed that if you weren’t perfectly happy or thankful all the time, then you must be living in sin (a la Job’s friends). They spend their Christian lives pretending to be what they are not and in total denial of the pain inside and around them. I think this goes hand-in-hand with the approved counseling paradigm. How Christians act only matters to many of these leaders in how it gets more people into the church tithing, not in their well-being.

    I will say the paradigm has changed in that the New Calvinists do not care about saving anybody but themselves. Traditional Baptists wanted to save everybody, but didn’t care much about you once you “got saved”. New Calvinists also believe everything must be your fault, unless you are a pastor or elder, of course.

    A friend of mine has been telling me how her New Cal church keeps disciplining more and more people, and they can’t seem to change any of them. The cracks are showing through to the outside world in a big way (in the news). The leaders are showing extreme flaws, but blame the peons or the media. Their solution is not working.

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  71. Howl:
    Heads up, folks! The elephant in the room in this post is strangulation, which is correlated with more extreme violence and homicide. “Non-fatal strangulation is an important risk factor for homicide of women” https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2573025/

    You strangle someone, you’re thinking about murdering them. Even if you release before they expire, I have to think it’s just a trial run. This guy should be put away for a long time and his congregation should rethink their church paradigm.

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  72. ishy: I’ve known many Christians who believed that if you weren’t perfectly happy or thankful all the time, then you must be living in sin (a la Job’s friends). They spend their Christian lives pretending to be what they are not and in total denial of the pain inside and around them. I think this goes hand-in-hand with the approved counseling paradigm. How Christians act only matters to many of these leaders…

    I’ve seen it also. And typically, the ones who act superficially the happiest are the ones most miserable and desperate (or vengeful and cruel) on the inside.

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  73. Brian:
    I think he was still isolating his “activities”. Either he had to have a great cover story to hide his activities or some in the church knew but didn’t care…

    George Foreman had his issues, not with physical abuse but with infidelity, particularly back before he was a Christian and when he was a young Christian, but he also had some common sense. He recounted in his autobiography a time before he became a Christian, when he was champion of the world in the 1970s and the sexual revolution was in full swing and there were women who were readily available to the world champ and he’d given into temptations several times. In an effort to save their marriage, he and his then-wife went to a Christian pastor for counseling and the pastor got George away from his wife in private for a bit and told him, basically, “Boys will be boys, do whatever you want, just don’t bring it home, George.” As a non-Christian, he was shocked and disgusted. A serial philandering non-Christian had more sense than a so-called Christian pastor. This is evidently not a unique attitude, the not caring thing.

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  74. John:
    dee,

    Just because I raised the question doesn’t mean I’m racist or writing with malicious intent. But it’s your website. You can censor as you wish. It says more about you than anything else.

    John, either you’re just ignorant of Dee and what she does or you’re just a smug guy going off half-cocked. I don’t know which. Maybe be a little more humble in your approach. Maybe try to learn something first, get the feel of this place more, get a broader view of Dee and what goes on first.

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  75. Headless Unicorn Guy,

    TS00:
    So many things about the picture on the book cover sets off alarms. No one, seeing it, would be surprised to discover that this man is sexually abusive. Gives me the creeps.

    Like “rape bird” here, but for serious:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhYdZWBzJdI

    (The video is from a set of associated channels that do a lot of sick-but-funny reaction/prank/challenge videos.)

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  76. I was horrified by the assault and ill-treatment by Pastor Wilson and equally horrified that the assault had been published in the local paper but neither church has allegedly reached out to offer support to Shanaqua

    Does this really surprise anyone?

    Explainable by “She’s only a Woman!” plus “Touch Not Mine Anointed!”

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  77. drstevej: “It is said that Behind every successful church is a selfless pastor willing to give himself fully to the flock. Pastor Ra’Shan, your ministry has been one of sacrificial love through the years, and we appreciate you.

    There’s no better way for us to wish such a cherished gift of SouthSide Impact a Happy Birthday, than to offer prayers of thanksgiving to God for placing you in our midst. Pastor, you are truly a blessing to this entire church family, this City, the World! May God bless you on your special day.”

    — Signed Ra’Shan J Wilson, Anointed Apostle.

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  78. Bridget: I’m just coming at it from a Baptist’s perspective. And pointing out the hypocrisy of autonomy, which is a complete lie if the state conventions can vote out a church that calls a female pastor, but they seem to claim autonomy when it comes to abusive pastors.

    Just like Calvary Chapel under that Moses of Moses Models, Papa Chuck:
    * Autonomous and Independent when it is to their advantage to be Autonomous and Independent.
    * A single united monolith in lockstep when that is to their advantage.
    Disperse for defense, concentrate for the attack.

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  79. Abigail: But in terms of sleeping around with a man she knows is married….effects your children…and is an example of why she as a sexually immoral woman creates a lot of problems for herself and her children.

    As someone who had a serious case of virgin/whore dichotomy, I recognize Abagail’s symptoms.
    Symptoms that in a Christianese context include a Church Lady Superiority dose of “I THANK THEE, LOOOOOOORD, THAT I AM NOTHING LIKE THAT…”

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  80. SiteSeer: Lots of SBC pastors have mistresses and illegitimate children, then? Peachy.

    Another Privilege of Pastoral Rank?

    Alpha Male/Herd Bull — own and do as many females as possible to show your status and bear your offspring. MOOOOOO!

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  81. Friend,

    We are supposed to love them.

    There is a prayer meeting, right before Vacation Bible School, to pray for the maximum attendance and conversion by of the children.

    I’m a hugger once I’m comfortable. After a couple of months I found some of the other huggers in the in the congregation.

    The Pastor is always encouraging the congregation to invite their unsaved friends and family.

    He’s also encouraging congregants to take the churches four, one day courses on the foundations of Christianity and the four Master Life Courses.

    The Pastor and the two Associate Pastors are male. Women are involved in the running of the rest of the church.

    When there are verses or passages that may be controversial to some, like the homosexual lifestyle, he doesn’t shy away. But, he’s never shaming or accusative about it.

    He said if someone came to church and identified as gay, to not turn them away. The NT, the law is now turned inward, as Christians we are to be an example.

    The church runs a pantry to give short term, three month or less aid, to help bridge the gap until people either find work or get on public assistance.

    (Humor), I typed this while dancing to the “Space 1999” show theme.

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  82. ishy: I’ve known many Christians who believed that if you weren’t perfectly happy or thankful all the time, then you must be living in sin (a la Job’s friends). They spend their Christian lives pretending to be what they are not and in total denial of the pain inside and around them.

    This has been my experience, including within my own family. It is very, very sad how out of touch they are with their own weaknesses and sin, and have no problem with immediately condemning the ‘sin’ of all who suffer from the stuff life throws at us. Instead of grace and compassion, there is a self-righteous, ‘So thankful I am not as those sinners’.

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  83. Brian: We are supposed to love them.

    And that’s the main thing. 🙂 Thanks for the peek inside your church.

    We currently belong to a church that does not evangelize by seeking the unsaved. Our growth happens more through friendships, service to the community, nine worship services a week, and things we offer (a school, festivals, etc.). Emphasis is on God’s love, not something I heard at my childhood church. Sermons absolutely challenge us to repent, but by trying to get us to think rather than by calling out specific sins. We have a few gay members as well as some divorced and remarried, and probably a few living together without benefit of matrimony. The inclusion of gay members created a ruckus several years ago, but things have settled down. Clergy include men and women; staff and volunteers likewise.

    We have more forms of outreach than you can shake a stick at. That’s the one area in which I think we really meet the standard of Scripture. Throughout the year there are opportunities for children to participate in outreach. At Christmas, families buy gifts for our needy neighbors. There are so many brand-new bikes that you can barely get into the building. When our son was little, he helped me pick out dishes and kitchen items for a formerly homeless family… unforgettable.

    The place used to be a bit clubby, but there has been a deliberate effort to improve our welcome without coming off as fake or love-bombing people. Newcomers usually look comfortable these days.

    I’m just describing here… nobody has this church thing down to a science.

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  84. ishy: I’ve known many Christians who believed that if you weren’t perfectly happy or thankful all the time, then you must be living in sin (a la Job’s friends). They spend their Christian lives pretending to be what they are not and in total denial of the pain inside and around them. I think this goes hand-in-hand with the approved counseling paradigm.

    It’s also not okay to grieve after a tremendous loss, you’ve got to snap back to happy happy and prove to the world that Christians have it so together we don’t even feel the pain of loss. I remember parents who lost a child not even expressing grief or pain, just using the experience to proselytize.

    I alienated a long time Christian friend by expressing that I had anger with God and doubt after I watched my husband die a slow, painful death from cancer. The fact is, I find more comfort and understanding away from the church.

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  85. Brian: Is this mindset within the SBC/Neo Cal paradigm? This doesn’t align with Romans 12.

    No, they kinda like people living in pain. But they are definitely Job’s friends, saying nobody deserves good things and everybody deserves suffering. I’ve seen New Cals gloat over the suffering of people around them. It’s way worse in many ways than pretending everything is fine.

    Just do a search of John Piper and suffering and look at the titles. They are truly awful.

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  86. Brian,

    Though, I have noticed when their leaders face the consequences of their own actions, suddenly they are blaming everyone else and trying to get out of those consequences.

    They don’t really believe a lot of the stuff they say is true of themselves.

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  87. SiteSeer: The fact is, I find more comfort and understanding away from the church.

    While He called the temple His “Father’s House” and while He spoke in churches, it seems Jesus was rejected by a whole lot of people in the church and seemed forever to be giving comfort and understanding outside of it.

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  88. SiteSeer: It’s also not okay to grieve after a tremendous loss, you’ve got to snap back to happy happy and prove to the world that Christians have it so together we don’t even feel the pain of loss. I remember parents who lost a child not even expressing grief or pain, just using the experience to proselytize.

    I alienated a long time Christian friend by expressing that I had anger with God and doubt after I watched my husband die a slow, painful death from cancer. The fact is, I find more comfort and understanding away from the church.

    I am so sorry for your suffering, dear! My spouse’s parents lost their first child to cancer at the age of 3, and this was in the early days of childhood cancers. The father, a youth minister, refused to talk about it, or let his wife openly grieve. Chin up, good christians are always cheerful and happy!

    They literally did not talk through all that until thirty years later, after he retired and their kids were all grown. Does anyone think this did not have a huge effect upon that poor woman and her other children? Did this ‘Woman, obey your master’ approach serve anyone well?

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  89. SiteSeer,

    One of the things I admired in Rachel Held Evans was her willingness to be honest about being angry with and confronting God. Yes, I was not alone! I mean, what’s the point of pretending? Ya don’t think he knows how we really feel? Might as well clear the air, and allow him to help us deal with our emotions.

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  90. TS00: The father, a youth minister, refused to talk about it, or let his wife openly grieve. Chin up, good christians are always cheerful and happy!

    AKA “Everythings so Nice Nice Nice, And Don’t You Dare Rock the Boat!”

    Implant that wire in the pleasure center, turn on the trickle current, and…

    “HAPPY! HAPPY! JOY! JOY!
    HAPPY! HAPPY! JOY! JOY!
    HAPPY! HAPPY! JOY! JOY!
    HAPPY! HAPPY! JOY! JOY!
    HAPPY! HAPPY! JOY! JOY!
    HAPPY! HAPPY! JOY! JOY!
    HAPPY! HAPPY! HAPPY! HAPPY!
    HAPPY! HAPPY! HAPPY! HAPPY!
    JOY! JOY! JOY!”
    — Ren & Stimpy

    “Hell has no torment worse than Constant Forced Cheerfulness.”
    — G.K.Chesterton, “Three Tools of Death” (Father Brown Mystery)

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  91. SiteSeer: I remember parents who lost a child not even expressing grief or pain, just using the experience to proselytize.

    i.e. “SELL THAT FIRE INSURANCE! WITNESS! WITNESS! WITNESS!”
    Though in the case you cited I suspect a LOT of displacement behavior.
    Which means the crash will come eventually as the Zeal runs dry, and will probably be bigger and darker. Like stress building up on a locked earthquake fault.

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  92. John: The SBC will hide behind autonomy.

    Yes. The SBC is technically not a “denomination” in the same sense as other Christian organizations. It is better defined as a “network” of autonomous churches which cooperate to fund home and foreign missions and various entities. As long as each local church conforms to SBC’s statement of faith, they can pretty much do what they want to (the Baptist Faith & Message was revised in 2000 to provide more theological wiggle room, with a distinct trend in Calvinism). SBC’s regional or State associations might call an individual church into account for some things, but most are truly autonomous and such action is rare.

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  93. ishy: Just do a search of John Piper and suffering and look at the titles. They are truly awful.

    I’d just as soon do search on the Marquis de Sade.
    The only thing that bifurcates the two is religion.

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  94. John,

    John: As tempting as it might be to attribute sexual innuendo to the title of the book, it is more likely that it is a play-on-words based on the title of the famous 2004 rap song by Jay-Z titled “99 Problems.” I’ll let you Google the lyrics and see if you don’t think they are a better source. Still rather rude, certainly denigrating of women, but just not in a sexual way.

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  95. Max,

    Have any of the state associations been either more proactive or reactive? Or have they, in general, dug their heels in too?

    My understanding from the Sovereign Grace case, the judge gave the privileges given to Catholic priest, the founder wasn’t required to testify. I can only imagine that some of the SBC are hiding behind it.

    Has anybody tried pressuring the state associations?

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  96. Russell Moore, President, SBC’s Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission, was interviewed on CBN today. You could tell from his responses that SBC is feeling some heat on sexual abuse by church leaders and the role of women in SBC life. A self-proclaimed complementarian, Moore all of a sudden appears to be softening a bit on wimmenfolk (he came across too syrupy; I don’t trust syrupy). To appease rising concerns about the New Calvinist bad boys and their “beauty of complementarity”, the SBC appears to be positioned to elect a token woman in some denominational capacity at their upcoming annual meeting. Too little, too late, IMO. As my grandpa used to say, I don’t trust them further than I can throw them. I’ll provide the link to the CBN/Moore piece once it’s posted on the CBN website.

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  97. TS00: One of the things I admired in Rachel Held Evans was her willingness to be honest about being angry with and confronting God. Yes, I was not alone! I mean, what’s the point of pretending? Ya don’t think he knows how we really feel? Might as well clear the air, and allow him to help us deal with our emotions.

    I admired that about her, too. Her perspective is badly needed in the church and she will be missed.

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  98. Law Prof: While He called the temple His “Father’s House” and while He spoke in churches, it seems Jesus was rejected by a whole lot of people in the church and seemed forever to be giving comfort and understanding outside of it.

    Your point is well taken, thank you.

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  99. ishy: But they are definitely Job’s friends, saying nobody deserves good things and everybody deserves suffering. I’ve seen New Cals gloat over the suffering of people around them. It’s way worse in many ways than pretending everything is fine.

    Yes, I’ve gotten that response as well. “When you consider that we all deserve destruction, we should be glad… ” BLECH. We call God father but ascribe behavior to him that would be horribly abusive in an actual father.

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  100. ishy: No, they kinda like people living in pain. But they are definitely Job’s friends, saying nobody deserves good things and everybody deserves suffering. I’ve seen New Cals gloat over the suffering of people around them.

    “RIGHTS? WE HAVE NO RIGHTS! EXCEPT TO DESERVE ETERNAL HELL!!!!!!!!!
    — Heard some 40 years ago in-country; the damage is still there

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