“I should meet many people who do not know anyone personally who has been raped or molested as a child. But I can't remember seeing a newspaper without a rape or molestation charge in it somewhere, and when I ask groups how many people know someone personally with a history of molestation, almost always, every hand in the room goes up.” ― Anna C. Salter, Predators: Pedophiles, Rapists, And Other Sex Offenders link
Do/Did you know Chad Robison?
Update: 7/19/17 TWW received the following information from an anonymous reader named *A.* We thought it was worth posting. However, since we cannot confirm the source, we cannot say if we think it is legitimate. We hope it is.
I have first hand knowledge that SRPC turned Robison’s personal laptop over to the police immediately. It was found by night maintenance staff late on Thursday, May 11th. The maintainence worker notified a church employee who was working late and subsequently the necessary members of the pastoral staff were notified that night. The laptop was hand delivered to the Citrus County Sheriff’s Department the next morning (Friday the 12th).
Who is the alleged sex offender?
According to ABC Action News in their report Former church worship director arrested on several sex charges, his name is Chad Robison, 36, and he was the worship leader at Seven Rivers Presbyterian Church, a PCA church in Lecanto, Florida in Citrus County. He had been at the church since 2011.
Seven Rivers is a member of the PCA. This is a strictly Calvinist denomination which broke away from what they would deem the more liberal PCUSA. Many churches in the PCA are also affiliated with The Gospel Coalition and 9 Marks.
How was he discovered?
According to ABC Action News:
Deputies say that some of his coworkers were going to play a prank on him, but found pornographic material on his laptop. Robison was fired from the church and employees called authorities.
Was he fired immediately?
I am hoping that someone who belongs to this church can clear this question up for me. Was he discovered and reported immediately or did the church do their own investigation and then report it a few days later? I certainly hope it was the former. ABC Action News released the statement from the church.
On Thursday, May 11, we received allegations about material found on the personal computer of our music director, Chad Robison. Prior to May 11 we had no knowledge or suspicion of improper conduct by Mr. Robison. We investigated these allegations and dismissed Mr. Robison from employment at Seven Rivers Presbyterian Church on Monday, May 15 and banned him from our campus. Simultaneously, we informed the Citrus County Sheriff's Office of what we had discovered. It should be noted that Mr. Robison was an employee of our church and not of our school. Seven Rivers Presbyterian Church remains committed to full cooperation with the Citrus County Sheriff's Office in this matter.
Sadly, lots of abused children need to be located and many are over state lines.
According to the Gainsville Sun in Citrus sheriff seeks to ID young victims of Seven Rivers church leader, the task before law enforcement is enormous and difficult. My heart breaks at the number of kids who may be involved.
Sheriff’s officials said he victimized girls online using the chat website Omegle.
They have found hundreds of videos featuring “young girls performing virtual sex acts with Robison,” a CCSO press release states.
Sheriff Mike Prendergast described him as “a textbook case of an online sexual predator.”
Since then investigators have been going through 3,000 videos and 350,000 photos on the computer. Detectives already have found several out-of-state victims.
The Sheriff’s Office said he also recorded girls his bathroom using a hidden camera.
“It’s going to be a very difficult and long process to find those who have been victimized by this man,” said CCSO Capt. Brian Spiddle in a prepared statement.
If anyone who is reading this post knows anything please contact the Citrus County Sheriff.
Parents and anyone else who may have information about possible victims are asked to 352-726-1121 and speak with Major Crimes.
Do you need to talk to someone about this situation? Are you afraid and need to keep your identity anonymous? Do you know something that happened at the church or school and do not trust that the matter will be dealt with lovingly and confidentially?
Please feel free to contact us at dee@thewartburgwatchcom, deb@thewartburgwatch.com, or at our number 919-792-8632. Your name will be held in absolute confidentiality. We promise!! Do not be afraid if you call our number. It will ask for your name. You can make one up. It will then ring through to us. If we don't pick up, we are busy and will call you back ASAP.
Some thoughts about churches and official statements in regards to this sort of situation.
No one blames a church when a sex offender shows up. In fact, sex offenders target churches. We will be writing more on this soon. Churches lose credibility when they refuse to report any suspcious activity to the police and instead, investigate it and decide if they should report it. Pastors, you are not competent to investigate and make decision in these matters and the existence of this blog is proof of that. Call the authorities, even if it is only a question.
Were there any reports that the church felt were not warranted?
A question always arises if there had been any sort of report that had been blown off by the staff as "Just guys horsing around." I saw that in a former church. The *boyz being boyz* blow off led to young teen males being abused, horrifically, for another year. That molester is now in prison.
Did the church contact the authorities immediately (as soon as they found out)?
It is advisable to immediately contact the authorites.That means as soon as a report is received. Church staff are not trained to conduct such a investigation and those who think they are are defined by the word hubris, not *Spirit-filled.*
So, did the church first investigate the claims and then call the police 4 days later or did someone make a mistake in the statement by Seven Rivers? That is what the statement seems to say but that maybe incorrect.
Just because he wasn't officially employed at the school does not mean that none of the school kids were harmed.
It doesn't matter that he wasn't an employee at the associated school. My guess is that he had access at the school and that a number of kids attend the church. This is a mistake made by many churches. They attempt to limit the damage and end up sounding ridiculous. In my former church, they proudly announced the pedophile seminary student was merely a volunteer, not an employee of the church. What in the world is the difference?? The kids were molested while the *volunteer* was greatly beloved of the staff. The authorities must investigate if anything happened at the school and I hope the church is encouraging this to occur.
What will the PCA denominational leadership do to assist the police, and most likely the FBI, in their investigation?
I would assume that the church would cooperate with the authorities. That is expected. What I want to know if if the church had contacted the administrative body of the PCA so that they can assist in the investigation. It is clear that this case goes beyond state lines. Has the denomination sent out warnings to other churches? Do they keep a file of former offenders at the denomination headquarters?
What will The Gospel Coalition do to get this information out to all of their churches.
Seven Rivers Presbyterian Church is a member of TGC.
The Gospel Coalition has used quite a bit of bandwidth on the internet claiming that they are against child sex abuse. Sadly, it is my opinion that they stay profoundly silent on the issue if it is one of their people. I would love to see a post on TGC about this incident and any other incident in one of their churches butt will not happen.
TGC has enormous resources and contacts. They should jump in and offer to help the local and national authorities in tracking down the church habits of this *alleged* molester.
I am deeply disturbed by the inaction of the part of the dudebro brigade when it comes to child sex abuse. It is time for them to grow up and become men, not dudes. Men seek out the abused. Men do something for the abused. Yet all I ever see seem to hear is "We are against child sex abuse" and then leaders like Al Mohler go on to make jokes about their BFFs caught up in controversy over this issue.
They claim they are real men, just like God wants them to be. Somehow, I think they have missed something along the way. Let me give them a story about a real man and i bet he doesn't go to their conference. This story will make you cry.
first
Reflexes fast than a dudebro. trying to get John Piper’s autograph in his Bible.
Good work, Deebs. Your challenges and questions are appropriate and highly needed in what seems to often be a vacuum or inaction regarding child abuse in the church. God bless you.
@ JYJames:
Thank you. It has been a bit ridiculous behind the scenes recently but we are focusing on what we are here for.
@ dee:
Ever grateful.
350,000 photos??? What? That is beyond obsession. It must have been all this guy ever did!
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2017/07/16/church-staffer-arrested-after-giant-stash-of-child-porn-found-on-computer/
Scroll down and read the last two paragraphs. Nailed it.
dee wrote:
Thank you for all that you do. I can’t imagine all of the work behind the scenes, but for this frequent reader and infrequent commenter, following the discussion generated by the last couple of posts has been fantastic.
The Sheriff’s Office in this case has a massive job in trying to identify and reach out to so many victims. Is there a practical way for large organizations like PCA and TGC to help? As has been done here, it seems that TGC could use its platform to encourage victims and their families to speak up.
Maybe he wasn’t employed by the school but did he give private music lessons to students of the school.
I am happy to read the Church didn’t try to cover up and called police. Hope there wasn’t a gap in the timing.
Yes, TGC should be more aggressive in covering these offenses in their midst. Congregants need to understand, perverts seek out *safe* places to find their victims. Churches desperately need to understand they are being targeted by pedophiles. Naivety has got to go. Just because someone claims to be a Christian, has the credentials, doesn’t mean they are what they pretend to be.
My question is: What were the practices and policies of the church that allowed this to continue for long enough for the perpetrator to have that many victims? What could have been done differently to uncover this and prevent the harm to so many children? Is not the church at fault for the failure to uncover this pedophile and protect a large majority of the victims. One victim is one too many, but hundreds or thousands is inexcusable for the church as well as the perpetrator!
Catholic Gate-Crasher wrote:
True….how could he be working, performing his job?
Truly, this is an incredible amount of photos.
I think the difficulty here with TGC is that they are a pseudo-denomination without formal denominational structure; they can always claim that this church was just a “voluntary member” and that they have no responsibility to say or do anything when scandal arises.
Mae wrote:
This needs to be repeated over and over. The beast has been released in America and he is seeking whom he may devour. Demons go to church, too. The hedge is down; our children are unprotected in far too many churches.
Church leaders just don’t have the concern or discernment they need to test and try the spirits among them. Much of discernment is just simple observation – watching and listening. Surely, surely, somebody suspected this. (as a sidenote, I never trust a “pastor” who wears a gold choker chain/necklace … but I’m an old fogy).
TGC will ignore this.
That story of the police officer who adopted the 8 year old boy and his baby sister didn’t make me cry, just happy. 🙂
Catholic Gate-Crasher wrote:
Never underestimate a no-life fanboy and his obsession.
Edward wrote:
Just like Calvary Chapel.
Completely independent voluntary members when it’s to their advantage,
One monolithic movement moving in lockstep when that’s to their advantage.
Disperse for Defense, Concentrate for Attack.
http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2012/09/24/in-plain-view
In Plain View: How Child Molesters Get Away With It.
Caroline wrote:
Excellent point. Especially considering that people in TGC coalition churches tend to do what their leaders tell them to do.
Catholic Gate-Crasher wrote:
And isn’t every photo considered a crime scene?
Because to the dudebro brigade, the Constitutional Rights of Captain Bonerhelmet cannot be infringed in any way. And the most important thing is the dudebro’s sexual rights over his penis homes to the high-fives of all his dudebros.
“HE SCOOOOOORED! HEH-HUH! HEH-HUH! HEH-HUH!”
— Beavis & Butthead
Instead, they will piously circle the wagons against Those Heathen Secular Humanists and blame Teh Fags and Uppity Wimmen. (Hypermasculinity and anti-Homosexuality are linked together.)
Oh, that changes EVERYTHING:
IT WAS ALL PREDESTINED BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD TO BRING GLORY TO GOD!
Max wrote:
Sadly, I believe you’re observations are correct. Now, more then ever, discernment and vigilance are required.
Headless Unicorn Guy wrote:
A great summary.
This phenomenon occurred even in the Independent Fundamental Baptist circles that I grew up in. Each church was assumed to be fully autonomous and accountable to no one but the members, but as a pastor’s son I got a glimpse at the broad networks running behind the scenes. In effect, it was an Old Boys Club running the movement behind closed doors without any input from minority voices and with the benefit of plausible deniability if anything sketchy became public. If an abuse scandal popped up in one of these interconnected churches, leaders of any particular church would deny that any IFB “movement” existed at all.
Deebs, Thank you for all you do! I admire how you persevere no matter what is going on in your lives. You are both role models of strong women. I read every post and always come away richer for it. I hope you encounter more people who can show you the grace that you show others in spades!
Catholic Gate-Crasher wrote:
I wonder if they were downloaded while he was at work. If so, how did the network administrator (assuming they have one…there is a woman with the title Website listed on their page) not notice all those downloads and ‘questionable’ websites.
@ Edward:
Interesting insight. And why the Good Ole Days is not the answer.
@ Ann:
Ditto.
I certainly hope this was merely a misstatement or misquote and that the church contacted the authorities immediately…it can be read either way.
HOWEVER, if they waited from Friday until Monday to report the findings to the police, four days is enough time for the session to meet with the entire staff and get their stories straight.
Edward wrote:
“I KNOW NOTHINK! NOTHINK!”
— Sgt Schultz (Johann Banner of Vienna, I’m getting so much mileage out of your most famous character tag line…)
@ Burwell:
Circle the wagons.
Edward wrote:
3rd gen IFB preacher’s kid and I agree completely.
Nancy2 (aka Kevlar) wrote:
BINGO
@ Muff Potter:
Yes.
Moreover, when the leaders’ teachings rant in sickening detail about the bad immoral stuff the young folks are doing nowadays, but then will not defend and stand up for those very same young folks when there is a older predator on the prowl (one of the leader’s colleagues or supporters) in their own venue – what kind of hypocrisy and double speak is that? Selective targeting and definitely not picking on someone of their own but going after “easy” targets. Cowardice.
(During that last post about Piper, ran into some of these leaders’ rants on the DG site. Such detail. Stopped reading. Titillating for the writers?)
JYJames wrote:
Pornography for the Pious.
How else can Respectable Church Lady types get their fix of all that JUICY Sexual SIN SIN SIN and still remain Respectable?
An Attorney wrote:
I think it is premature to point the finger at the church, imply that the church could have done something differently or find the church at fault. The article below appears to state that the behavior occurred at the individual’s residence and not at the church. The church would have no knowledge of what goes on at an individual’s residence. Until a full investigation is completed, let’s not try to build a case against the church.
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2017/07/16/church-staffer-arrested-after-giant-stash-of-child-porn-found-on-computer/
You have to come out in support of gay marriage for anyone from the evangelical industrial complex to respond. Not even two hours later after such exposure, there will be 50 different think pieces from evangelical celebrities and a bible study attached with 4 separate videos on how to respond.
All of the neighbors will have already called Thought Police headquarters. Lifeway immediately zips up in their evangelical cop car and yells “Under Arrest!” Repent or your books and ministry are going to jail!
The church is at stake. The gospel is at stake. Before nightfall even comes, everything is turned over and dissected to death. War has been waged.
But abuse of children and systemic malpractice and cover ups in the church and non-profit ministries? No big deal. Silence.
The cognitive dissonance and revelation of what they value and what they think is *really* important is illuminating.
ION: Gallifrey
AWWBA, the 13th Doctor is female. Jodie Whittaker will properly take over from the wonderful Peter Capaldi in this year’s Christmas Special, though of course she’s already appeared in a symbolism-heavy trailer (in which the Tardis key appears in her hand).
I have to confess to a slight twinge of disappointment – there were rumours the next Doctor would be Gillian Anderson, who would’ve been perfect for the role IMHO – but, that said, I’d no idea who Matt Smith was when he took over and he proved to be rather good. So: roll on the next series!
IHTIH
emily honey wrote:
I do support gay marriage. I have a sneaking suspicion that this is partly because of the very stock-market reaction whereof you spake.
JYJames wrote:
They do this in secular world too. Can’t remember how many school teachers lately have been arrested for hitting up on children.
For the life of me, I can’t understand how more people aren’t outraged.
emily honey wrote:
Darn straight!
Lydia wrote:
We can all help with this actually by becoming part of this project: https://traffickcam.com/
Anyone staying in a hotel room anywhere is asked to photograph their rooms & upload them for comparison purposes by this organisation to indecent images of children, to narrow down where victims are being abused.
How many people are recording others in the bathroom! Ugh.
JYJames wrote:
Indeed. Odds are a pregnant teenage girl will catch more hell than these predator men ever will
Lea wrote:
I’m pretty sure THAT is already a pRoven fact.
emily honey wrote:
This is exactly what happened to Eugene Peterson last week. Even Al Mohler seems to have come off of vacation to write about it: http://www.albertmohler.com/2017/07/17/eugene-peterson/ (he has not updated his daily “The Briefing” since June 30).
I’d like for more of these “leaders” to write something like this: “First, there is nowhere to hide. Every pastor, every Christian leader, every author — even every believer — will have to answer the question. The question cannot simply be about sexual abuse. The question is about whether or not the believer is willing to declare and defend God’s revealed plan for dignity for the abused and responsibility for the abuser as clearly revealed in the Bible.”
@ Ken F (aka Tweed):
Yeah, that is the example I had in my head, though it keeps replaying itself every few months and seems to be the most repeated one that draws out all the guns and immediate reactions as of late. But insert whatever manufactured drama of the week in evangelical culture here. (Though all of society and groups are guilty of this.)
Not that talking and debating about issues isn’t important or healthty, some more than others, some even really important and necessary to talk about. It’s just that what is being made into a big deal never seems to actually be about the supposed controversy, but a scapegoat or diversion for something else.
I mean to draw attention to the mob mentality and diversion and hysteria that all seems manufactured and misplaced to me. But issues like sexual abuse and well being of children, and abuse of any kind for that matter,is swept under the rug and barely acknowledged at the forefront of evangelical culture.
Why do people feel the need to *immediately* think piece on what an 84 year old mild mannered Montana retired pastor may or may not think about gay marriage, or lose sleep in agongy over the Benedict Option debates, but no immediate concerns or losing sleep over the abuse of children, for starters?
That’s my question. Basic sociology question of all human groups, of course lol.
@ Catholic Gate-Crasher:
“350,000 photos??? What? That is beyond obsession. It must have been all this guy ever did!”
+++++++++++++++++++
one of my hobbies is collecting images of art, interior decorating, and gardening (all filed away in the Someday folder). I’ve been doing this for about 7 years, as i have time.
350,000 photos / 7 years (let’s say) / 365 days = that’s 136 photos per day, every day of the year. how is this even possible?
could it be like a drug habit, where he has suppliers who send batches on to him?
So this molester was employed by the church since 2011? That’s six years till he was arrested. No one, especially those close to him, suspected anything peculiar, off, disturbing, troubling, etc. about this man? He must be a skilled con man, which if we know anything about pedophiles and sexual abusers, would fit his m.o. Lifting a quote from the New Yorker article up thread:
A pedophile, Mr. van Dam’s story reminds us, is someone adept not just at preying on children but at confusing, deceiving, and charming the adults responsible for those children…
It seems we all must be diligent at having our spidey senses on high alert when in environments where children are concerned. If we perceive something to be wrong in our gut about a person, don’t ignore it. In the case of this pervert “worship” director, I wonder how many folks sensed something wasn’t right about him, but didn’t know what to do or how to proceed. I only wish these perverts would break out in some hideous rash that would expose the kind of evil people they are.
@ Edward:
“In effect, it was an Old Boys Club running the movement behind closed doors without any input from minority voices ”
+++++++++++++++++++
can you give examples? (my imagination muscle is tired today)
elastigirl wrote:
No doubt it is like a perverse addiction in which one is obsessed to obtaining more and more photos and video to satisfy an aberrant, evil compulsion. And like drugs, the compulsion is never fully satisfied and it takes more and more to quench the urges.
emily honey wrote:
@ emily honey:
“Why do people feel the need to *immediately* think piece on what an 84 year old mild mannered Montana retired pastor may or may not think about gay marriage”
++++++++++++++++++++
even Scot McKnight put out a blog post on this. he seems very reasonable to me, but even he grabbed his pitchfork and torch.
(the mere fact that he published the key excerpt from Jonathon Merrit’s interview with Eugene Peterson on his blog like red meat on a plate in a zoo cage — Mr. Peterson is the red meat.)
such a passively nasty thing to do.
brought Scot McKnight an unusual amount of traffic and activity to his website, though.
Nick Bulbeck wrote:
If the church followed the sprit of Jesus’ guidance to his disciples, there would be no desire or compulsion to make stand alone statements on these issues outside the context of discipleship. If people weren’t separated into easily manageable groups to be managed by professional staff within the institution, someone might actually sense that their gift of discernment is as important as institutional controls in identifying wolves amongst the sheep. If there were enough sheep in the institution, they might realize that the head wolf is utterly powerless in guarding the sheep against other species of wolves. There would be loud bahs of mourning when a sheep got through and harmed a sheep. The sheep might all be at a little different level of revelation regarding gay marriage, but they would all mourn for the one sheep. They would minister to the one sheep as long as needed. I know that the church as a whole will never look like this until the wheat and chaff are separated, but I pray that I’ll be able to experience this with some portion of the true body of Christ. Is this an overly idealistic prayer?
@ scott hendrixson:
IMHO, no.
Since taking a class on the 18 gifts of the Spirit, (Eph. 4, 1 Cor. 12, Rom. 12), given to the church, I have prayed to be engaged with this actual spiritual entity, regardless of how the institution presents.
Clearly, as you mention, for this post, discernment and certainly leadership are needed to deal with predators, as well as healing, mercy, and finances for the victims. Then throw in relevant teaching so the group can learn to recognize a predator. (That’s 6 gifts there.)
“I am hoping that someone who belongs to this church can clear this question up for me. Was he discovered and reported immediately or did the church do their own investigation and then report it a few days later? I certainly hope it was the former.”
I have first hand knowledge that SRPC turned Robison’s personal laptop over to the police immediately. It was found by night maintenance staff late on Thursday, May 11th. The maintainence worker notified a church employee who was working late and subsequently the necessary members of the pastoral staff were notified that night. The laptop was hand delivered to the Citrus County Sheriff’s Department the next morning (Friday the 12th). Robison was not alerted for fear he may flee the area.
On Monday, the 15th, after the weekend worship services (that Robison was not a part of) He was called in to face the allegations and he confessed* to the Pastoral Staff and members of the churches ruling body. Upon his confession, he was banned from the Seven Rivers campus.
* His confession did not include the full extent of his crimes. Only that the laptop was his and he was responsible for the images that were seen by the maintainence worker.
“The Sheriff’s Office said he also recorded girls his bathroom using a hidden camera.”
I can also tell you that SRCS has worked closely with the Citrus County Sheriff’s Department to identify the three subjects of his “video vouyerism” charges. This was done by still shot imaging of the victims faces and not by video. None of these victims were underaged at the time of the filming.
Bridget wrote:
Yup….make sure she can’t graduate with her classmates. ( oh the horror of seeing a swollen belly get a diploma) Publicly denounce her sin and then pretend to be pro life.
scott hendrixson wrote:
That’s the question, isn’t it?
If I read your comment(s) aright, Scott, you asked it at least semi-rhetorically. IOW, I suspect you’re praying it regardless of who thinks it’s overly idealistic, because it’s the right prayer.
In the Stirling area of central Scotland, there’s obviously the usual spectrum of denominational subgroups. There’s also quite a lot of politics, friction, factions and competition. That’s not to say they’re all constantly at each other’s throats, but it is to say the local church is fundamentally divided. This is probably true of many, if not most, places. One congregation is particularly bad at working with anybody outside itself; there was a point a few years back when as soon as any group of believers tried to come together to do anything public in the city, this congregation would hit back with a counter-proposal to do its own thing.
One of the ring-leaders of that congregation once attempted, at a dinner function, to tell me I was being disobedient for not attending “a church”. I pointed out to him that attending the biblical local church wasn’t possible. He replied, “well, you’re never going to get back to that”.
Probably, that man thought he was correcting me and my naivety. But as far as I am concerned, he was at the same time telling God what kind of church He could have.
In new testament times, of course, there was one church; if you joined it, you were likely to be persecuted. And it’s true that you certainly faced competing demands from charismatic leaders who thought godliness was a good career. Now, there are many competing churches, and the only thing they really agree on is that they must at all costs preserve their separate identities. One can compromise by joining one of them, or one can compromise by joining none of them. Either way, my prayer’s the same as yours…
Nick Bulbeck wrote:
I have a feeling that the end-times Church (big “C”) will also experience that … and persecution will come not only from the world, but from the church (little “c”). There has always been the Church within the church. The organized institutional church across the globe is not really the Church; the Bride of Christ embedded in it is. One of the most unholy, cantankerous institutions on the planet is the organized church! This think has taken on a character of itself, rather than the nature of Jesus. When the Church within the church starts to surface, the rest of the bunch knocks it down! Coming out from her and not being a partaker of her sins may very well be the best Biblical option these days.
@ emily honey:
@ Ken F (aka Tweed):
I don’t understand the obsession. I suppose it’s an issue of control. Or maybe it’s just an easy thing to get people to rally around, since it costs them nothing if they’re not gay (and most people aren’t). I respect that some are speaking against homosexuality and gay marriage from their true convictions and understanding of scripture, but it’s curious that it has become the big evangelical litmus test, while so many other issues get no attention or only are mentioned in passing. It would be awesome to see such energy poured into protecting children.
A wrote:
I’m glad it sounds like they did everything the best way possible. We’ve seen a lot of churches on TWW who have not. There’ve been many who have been called to the carpet repeatedly who are still refusing to deal with their predators.
I shared Burwell’s question on how he could have gotten those downloads around a network admin, as a former church network tech. I do think he could have done it all in his home network, downloading folders of files that would have explained the sheer amount of horrible images he acquired. I no longer doubt the depravity of some people and their willingness to share that depravity.
As a former youth volunteer, I am beginning to think that using staff or parent homes for youth events may be a bad idea. I wish it weren’t so. But this shows that you cannot control everything people do in their own homes, even if there are other adults present. And churches need more education on spotting these dangerous tactics.
Caroline wrote:
I feel the same way. Albert Mohler had no trouble standing up for his buddy CJ Mahaney who protected abusers, but he is quite vicious to anyone who might support gay people. While I do think sometimes people don’t always do things that don’t make sense, I think in this case, it’s a sign of personal depravity because it’s about who is elite and who is not. That is not the way of Christ.
ishy wrote:
Meh. I am still lacking caffeine this morning. Y’all know what I mean….
@ A:
Thank you very much for your comment.
Since I cannot confirm who you are, which is totally fine since we believe that anonymity leads to free sharing of info, I cannot confirm that the church leadership did this for sure. I can only say that I received an anonymous comment. I will put a short addendum to the above post. I am sorry that I cannot endorse it beyond saying an “anonymous source claims”
I have a suggestion for your church leadership: why don’t they release an *updated statement* (It happens all the time and is not unusual) to say that this info was given to the police immediately. I will make a big deal of it if they do so. No one blames the church for a pedophile’s presence. They target churches in particular because people are so trusting.
If you feel comfortable, would you help me fill in a couple of blanks?
There seem to be two reports in the media. One was that a member of the church found the computer (saw images) and reported it. The other is that staff members, about to play a prank on Chad, discovered it. You say it was a maintenance man. Why the different stories on what seems to me to be a straightforward question: Who found it?
Has the church notified the PCA so that they can be prepared to assist the authorities since this involves going over state lines? I think it is helpful for all churches in the PCA to be aware of exactly what happened so they can learn from the incident. Mind you, I am NOT blaming your church for having a pervert in your midst. I am writing a post today with some info on why molesters and other creepstesr with other paraphilias target churches.
Once the dust settles, I hope everyone in the church, including members, think back over the last 6 years that Chad was present. Was there anything that was missed? If you had it to do over again, what might you do differently? (Maybe there is nothing you would have done differently.)
There are many child sex abuse victims’ advocates who would applaud you if you could do as”Looking back, what we have learned,” Yes, it means being vulnerable. Pedophilia is rampant in the church and we need to hear each other. I urge you not to say “Been there, done that, glad it is over” and go on.
Anyway, enough pontificating, I am so, so sorry that this happened to your church.
Max wrote:
I agree – indeed, I’d say it’s already happening. He came to his own, and his own did not receive him… I wouldn’t go to war over this, but I think it’s inevitable that the professing churches will always be first in line to persecute people for following Jesus. After all, the professing churches own Jesus.
dee wrote:
Great idea. Wise counsel.
ishy wrote:
I am deeply disturbed that so many people seem to be setting up cameras in bathrooms, but considering the stories I’ve read, not sure the church is much safer! (or the public for that matter) What to do?
My earlier comment was to suggest that the church needs to be asking itself these questions, just as Dee has suggested.
ishy wrote:
I’m not sure if it’s about being ‘elite’ or more of a ‘not our kind dear’ thing.
We are not like THOSE people. It’s a splitting off into groups. You can’t be an egalitarian because that’s a different group. You can’t have these errants thoughts, because that makes you other.
@ Lea:
Messed up the link, but I meant it to go here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8_POt2KlfQ
dee wrote:
I know you’re in the medical field. I have thought many times churches should employ procedures similar to an RCA/Morbidity and Mortality review when stuff goes down. What did we do wrong, what can we do in the future, etc. It’s much healthier than burying everything and handwaving!
JYJames wrote:
Thank you James; affirmation is priceless in a world where the church doesn’t seem like the church anymore. I’ve been involved a few studies/sermon series on spiritual gifts. Like you, I would love to be part of a group where these gifts are used to strengthen each other and build the body. Unfortunately,these studies are used to plug people into institutional roles and objectives. I’ve been in church where environments where the Spirit starts to move right under the nose of the pastor without him ever recognizing it and despite the best efforts of leadership to manage the people. Usually this rebellion of the Spirit is put down quickly and business as normal resumes. To me, this is the most destructive manifestation of spiritual abuse of all. In cases such as the one written about here, it weakens or destroys the body’s natural defenses against these attacks.
The hyperauthoitarian started at the top has different affects on different people. Under a controlling environment some underlings themselves try to control. Sexual evil is one form of this. The top does not want to change or refuses to change. The best solution if one is finds themselves in one of the churches is not to walk away. Run away and get true healing!!
Dee, Your post is entitled “worship leaders” but only one person was accused. Can you correct? You have done this before. Let’s keep things factual for the health of your site
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scott hendrixson wrote:
True, our amazing God has given us, the Body of Christ, the tools and they are FREE, gifts of the Spirit, no less. (The institutional church runs on money, which is a huge deficit.)
It takes a daily walking in the Spirit individually to know what’s truly going on in the Body of Christ. (For example, how I found TWW is quite the story.)
Like Max says, big C Church, little c church.
Of cours. Thank you.
Huffington Post: “Detective Chris Cornell, one of the officers tasked with sifting through the materials on Robison’s laptop, called the suspect a ‘textbook sexual predator.’”
“’This is the type of predator we warn kids about,’ he said.” http://bit.ly/2uIimNK
Apparently, Seven Rivers Presbyterian Church and the PCA does not read that textbook.
From the Seven Rivers Presbyterian Church statement to ABC Action News:
“It should be noted that Mr. Robison was an employee of our church and not of our school.”
However, it appears that Mrs. Chad Robison, Alexandra, is/was a teacher at Seven Rivers School, which the church is not admitting (transparency?). This would be problematic if indeed stealth videos were being made in the bathroom of the Robison home, which ties the wife and home in with the perpetrator. Who cleans the bathroom in the home?
Lea wrote:
I don’t think Mohler would go to any length to defend a peon in the ranks and SSB has reported on where he said in a panel to call 911 immediately on such things. And yet Mahaney gets not only a pass, but Mohler has defended him on multiple occasions. https://spiritualsoundingboard.com/2014/07/23/dr-albert-mohler-and-response-to-sex-abuse-in-churches/
This ties into something else Mohler has said which I have never forgotten. We talk about comp hierarchies, but Mohler has made statements about hierarchies among men that correlate with the hierarchy between husbands and wives as well: “God has given us a pattern of relationships and responsibilities between men and women especially in two spheres, the church and a home… The Scripture is very clear that men, for instance… not all men but certain men… are called into the teaching office of the church. And there’s a distinction between men and women in terms of that spiritual responsibility in the church.” http://www.christianpost.com/news/is-it-biblical-for-women-to-lead-in-politics-military-albert-mohler-answers-115847/
Max wrote:
Max
Thank you for sharing your wisdom with us. When I walk in a church, I always look for the older folks and humble people of all ages.
dee wrote:
Thank you Dee. That is why so many people trust you and read your site. With greatest respect ….
@ Jim:
i’m sure it was a mistype, in case you’re insinuating something else.
scott hendrixson wrote:
Important to have all ages represented in real fellowship. Our former church taken over by calvanistas was terribly disrespectful to the older pew sitter. A healthy congregation has all types….from the plumber, to the RN, to a fast food server, to a teacher. Tattoos on the young should be accepted too, and purple shades of hair too.
Lea wrote:
This is best comment! M+M can be painful but doctors and nurses and patients are better off for it.
@ dee:
Looked up RCA/Morbidity and Mortality. “Root Cause Analysis”
Found this:
https://www.neurosurgery.umn.edu/sites/neurosurgery.umn.edu/files/improving_patient_safety_and_outcomes_through_a_comprehensive_mortality_review_process.pdf
“Learning from Every Death.”
Mindful of the work of Atul Gawande, and the story (“The Outliers” by Gladwell) of the pilots who discounted feedback in the cockpit until lives were lost. Re-training, against cultural mores, ensued.
“The Undoing Project” research by Tversky and Kahneman, as well as “Moneyball” and “The Blind Side” are similar (scientific but counter-intuitive examples).
MOD: Shortened links are against the rules. Just put in the full URL. No public discussion. It’s a rule. Follow it. GBTC
Lea wrote:
Obviously there are NO liability lawyers present at an M&M review.
elastigirl wrote:
Basically, the usual sorts of behind-the-scenes influence that you see in informal associations. Pastors of churches who are friends, speak at the same conferences, communicate with each other privately, coordinate on which mission organizations receive funding, which people are to be shunned from fellowship and which should be allowed to quietly move to another congregation if something “happened” at their original church. It’s a sort of “banality of evil” situation, in my opinion, not something that requires wild imagination.
Nick Bulbeck wrote:
I also support this. Partly because I think there should be a form of marriage that is ‘Christian Marriage’ where those who want to make the God-focused vows they see in the Bible can do so & thus…well, that’s all I’ve got, not sure where else I’m going with this.
@ Headless Unicorn Guy:
If one is representing the organization employing the medical professionals, it may be appropriate for one to be in attendance. I have done the same with chemically related events, spills or releases, as an attorney with an extensive background in chemical safety and response planning.
Headless Unicorn Guy wrote:
They could not have been downloaded individually, too many. This had to be by some mechanism for downloading in bulk.
emily honey wrote:
Reminds me of when I was in Montreal and it’s RC bishop had made some relatively mild statement like the Catholic Church should apologize to gays. Within a day his office was “clarifying” and basically retracting. This was under Benedict. Someone from the Vatican had gotten on the phone and yanked the Archbishop of Montreal’s chain pretty quickly. But sex abuse issues, those had to be addressed prudently and after the lawyers weighed in.
scott hendrixson wrote:
Humility is key. The New Calvinists would never be accused of being humble. On the other hand, gray hair of any theological flavor doesn’t always equal wisdom and humility … but age helps. We need multi-generations worshiping together … it’s Biblical – older men teaching the young men, older women teaching young women. We need the energy of youth coupled with the wisdom of age … young folks to speed things up, older folks to slow things down. New Calvinism is an example of the youth group running the church – age and wisdom are discarded as non-essential.
@ Nick Bulbeck:
Well said Nick.
ishy wrote:
Robison did not bypass the SRPC’s internet security. He did this all from his home and brought the computer to church. he accessed his files at the church. None of this passed through the church network.
dee wrote:
I prefer to remain anonymous. I stand by my previous statement of having “firsthand knowledge”.
I have a suggestion for your church leadership: why don’t they release an *updated statement* (It happens all the time and is not unusual) to say that this info was given to the police immediately. I will make a big deal of it if they do so. No one blames the church for a pedophile’s presence. They target churches in particular because people are so trusting.
SRPC released a statement to the Sheriff’s department prior to the press conference, an email to church members on the afternoon of the arrest and it was addressed congregation wide at the beginning of last weeks sermon. SRPC has involved and communicated clearly with all of their congregants.
If you feel comfortable, would you help me fill in a couple of blanks?
There seem to be two reports in the media. One was that a member of the church found the computer (saw images) and reported it. The other is that staff members, about to play a prank on Chad, discovered it. You say it was a maintenance man. Why the different stories on what seems to me to be a straightforward question: Who found it?
A member of the maintenance staff, who is a church member.
the church notified the PCA so that they can be prepared to assist the authorities since this involves going over state lines? I think it is helpful for all churches in the PCA to be aware of exactly what happened so they can learn from the incident. Mind you, I am NOT blaming your church for having a pervert in your midst. I am writing a post today with some info on why molesters and other creepstesr with other paraphilias target churches.
I am not privy to that information.
When the dust settles, I hope everyone in the church, including members, think back over the last 6 years that Chad was present. Was there anything that was missed? If you had it to do over again, what might you do differently? (Maybe there is nothing you would have done differently.)
As you might well imagine, many SRPC members have asked themselves that very same question and by ALL accounts Robison compartmentalized his perversion privately to the internet. There have been no reports of physical involvement. There were no outside “red flags”. He led a double life.
SRPC stresses doing life in community, it seems that Robison kept to himself and did not feel that he could confess his sin to anyone without losing his job.
are many child sex abuse victims’ advocates who would applaud you if you could do as”Looking back, what we have learned,” Yes, it means being vulnerable. Pedophilia is rampant in the church and we need to hear each other. I urge you not to say “Been there, done that, glad it is over” and go on.
Anyway, enough pontificating, I am so, so sorry that this happened to your church.
Thank you, I chose to contribute to your blog because i thought you handled the article with fairness, insightfulness and asked the necessary questions.
Please pray for our church community, the greater local community, as well as Robison’s wife and child, and that the cause of Christ will continue to endure.
@ A:
I appreciate your willingness to communicate on this, and the more so as you have been done so in a measured and objective manner. This is a topic that generates very strong emotions – inevitably and rightly – but it also needs clear thinking and honesty. Thank you for your input, and – by inclusion – everyone else around you who is asking honest questions and is set on doing the right thing. I believe this (not the cover-ups we have sometimes seen) advances the cause of Christ.
ishy wrote:
If I may follow you down a rabbit trail for a moment, this reminds me of something I heard Paige Patterson say while he was president at SEBTS (and I have previously mentioned on this site) – he said from the pulpit in chapel that the “number one calling” of a human was to be a mother, the “number two calling” was to be a preacher (Southern Baptist, of course)
The first shows remarkable insensitivity to women in general, especially to those who suffer from infertility as well as those who do not get married, but also married women with children who could easily surmise that their worth is derived from their ability to reproduce. The second is less surprising considering the context in which it was spoken (seminary chapel) and Patterson’s milieu but disgusting nonetheless.
As I write this I realize that, 20 years later, I am still offended by both statements. Unbelievable.
@ Burwell:
Oh my. Please do not define mothering/ being a mother so narrowly as to mean only conception/ gestation/ parturition. That is so demeaning to what mothering is.
I ‘mothered’ when I was a teen and my own mother was sick-the oldest female child and all that. Do not even try to say that this was not mothering. I mothered all those years that I practiced nursing while going to school; we used to talk about TLC (tender loving care). I mothered my own biological children and I mother my non-biological grandkids, and I even still mother a couple of middle aged adults who used to be my children but now think they know more about everything. My daughter does not have/ could not have biological children but she mothers at school, where she teaches special ed, and she mothers her own adopted children. Even God used a mothering example to describe his own longing to protect his people.
Mothering is not about biological fertility; it is about the heart.
okrapod wrote:
Though I understand, I doubt that’s what Patterson meant. I think Patterson meant it exactly the way Burwell defined it.
One of Patterson’s very good friends had a daughter at SEBTS while I was there. Her father is quite well known. Both her parents told her that her only purpose in life to them was to find a husband and produce grandchildren. Her mother said in front of me one time that the only reason that they let her go to SEBTS was to find a pastor husband so she could hurry up and give them grandchildren. Guessing she meant male grandchildren, since they clearly didn’t care about their daughter. That attitude is pervasive among that crowd.
And may I point out that Patterson is not really a preacher? Maybe he imagines himself as one, but anyone who has creepy giant dead animal heads staring at them all day can’t be too mentally stable.
And just as an aside, I have come to the conclusion that the belief that preaching is supreme is imagined by those with egos who preach, but it doesn’t really have the widespread spiritual impact they imagine their preaching has. It also is yet another thing where man is trying to usurp the authority of God in the believer’s life. A believer doesn’t need to hear preaching to grow spiritually. Can it help? Yes. Does it have that much impact? No.
@ okrapod:
I’m not sure Paige Patterson meant it that way, and therefore, I don’t think Burwell was actually reducing the concept of motherhood to three biological processes (with or without sub-processes).
Again, I’m not Mr Patterson and I don’t know what goes on inside his head. But I’m trying to imagine his response to a preacher (male, of course) who decided to step down from the pulpit because God was drawing him upwards to the higher calling of motherhood.
@ ishy:
Sorry, ishy – I spent rather a long time composing that comment (some of it, to be fair, was spent pondering a job application) and I therefore didn’t see yours!
ishy wrote:
I agree and I also think it’s just one of those things they say because if they said what they really thought they’d be run out of town on a rail. I don’t believe for one second that he MEANT it though! It’s a ‘see, we respect women, they are the ‘most’ important! (if they fit within whatever box we’ve put them)
Now I can say what I really think which is that I am the most important person in any room.
ishy wrote:
The part of ministering that is actually important is the part they hate and keep trying to cut out – visiting the sick, actually caring about and providing for the congregation, widows and orphans and all that.
They hate that stuff and avoid it when possible. But that is what matters.
ishy wrote:
He has the gift of gab, but not pulpit anointing. Southern Baptists need to realize that Paige Patterson is part of the problem. He is not the champion of the Conservative Resurgence that folks view him as – he opened the door for the Calvinist Resurgence and their authoritarian ways, including the “beauty of complementarity”. He’s done at Southwest Baptist Theological Seminary (SWBTS) – he just hasn’t quit yet. There will be a New Calvinist “appointment” by Mohler to replace Patterson at SWBTS, mark my word.
dee wrote:
Speaking of medical terms, have you read Mohler’s thoughts on “Theological Triage” … putting doctrines in order of primary, secondary, and tertiary essentials? He has used that in defense of SBC Calvinization – the good doctor doesn’t view differences in God’s plan of salvation as an essential worth fighting over! (?)
I have no real idea as to who meant what, but at least Patterson gave it a shot-crude and excessive and foolish though it was. But it should be clear what I meant.
I hear so much about (a) let’s downgrade mothering including castigating the SAHMs and (2) let’s upgrade whatever a woman can do to bring in money (I heard lots of that directed in praise to me until I wanted to strangle somebody in public), and (3) I keep hearing even disrespect for people’s anatomical reproductive systems by calling them ‘plumbing’, and now (4) sex/ gender are not really real but are merely cultural constructs, and (6) even the socio-political idea that FGM must be accepted because ‘culture’.
I am just fed up with it all. How many more ways can we despise women?
BTW, while I do not agree with all that the Catholics say about Mary at least she is a symbol of mothering which they highly value. Then there is the terminology of Mother Superior for the female head of a convent. And my bunch has the option to call its female priest/rector ‘Mother’.
So is it better to be a mother than a preacher? It depends, in my opinion. We have some pretty worthless preachers and some pretty worthless mothers. But good mothering and good fathering and good shepherding have a lot in common.
BTW, we have had a death. My DIL’s father, ‘The’ Max Hurley who burned up the dirt track at Wilkesboro and who both built and raced his own car and is in the NC Drag Racing Hall of Fame as one of the pioneers of that kind of racing, has now run his last race and has finished well.
In the end both cardiovascular disease and dementia overcame him. He was a good man and a good father. While he still could he used to hug me the few times we saw him before it was too late, long after everybody else quit hugging me. I will never forget that.
It is appointed unto man once to die and after that the judgment. I expect to see Max at the barbecue on the south lawn. Do they have dirt tracks in heaven? Surely so.
@ okrapod:
So sorry for your loss. And I agree that there are surely dirt tracks. Will keep you and yours in mind through the week.
@ okrapod:
Sincere sympathy on this man’s passing. Am sorry you’ve lost a friend. NASCAR’S loss too. Those old timer racers were tough but set the standards for today’s racers.
okrapod wrote:
Hugs are so important. I’m sorry for your loss.
scott hendrixson wrote:
You have just reminded me of the Grimm episode about a church and wolves and sheep…
Sorry, I don’t mean to distract away from the seriousness of the topic. I was so sickened, I couldn’t respond yesterday when it was posted.
And because I still cannot confront this head-on (What were the church people doing over those four days? Were they so stunned, they couldn’t believe it, either? Were they paralyzed by horror, rather than trying to figure out damage control?), I will instead go off on a tangent. Related, however. One of the reasons I had for homeschooling and joining a hyper-controlling church was the desire to protect our children in a way my siblings and I were not protected in our secular upbringing.
The church told us the world was evil, but the missing piece was that the church doesn’t shut out evil. People carry the potential within themselves, whether in the church or in the secular world.
The answer I’m learning is not to see evil everywhere (even where it’s not), or blindly hope in a chosen refuge, but to be wise as serpents and innocent as doves. It takes work on my part. I was too lazy, too willing to listen to others and let them make my decisions and judgments for me, for too long.k
My discernment muscles got flabby, but they’re getting exercised now.
***
Tangent: you’ll have those whose response will be, “See? See? We’re right to shelter our children! We need to lock them up even tighter! No television. No internet access. If we *totally* isolate them, then they’ll be safe.”
(ignoring the fact that this evil came from within the church, because what matters is the fear)
****
Deebs, hats off to you for dealing with this difficult stuff. May your hearts and minds be protected, may your strength be sustained and renewed, and may you find unexpected comfort and joy in the journey.
refugee wrote:
That was a good one, and I think it dealt with spousal abuse as well as spiritual abuse iirc. I need to go back and rewatch.
refugee wrote:
Don’t forget “no books or reading materials except The Bible (Kynge Jaymes Only)…”
Max wrote:
“The Emperor has dissolved the Imperial Senate. Henceforth, all Authority devolves to the Grand Moffs and Military. Fear will keep the planets in line. Fear of this battle station.”
— Grand Moff Tarkin, Commanding Officer, Death Star
okrapod wrote:
To add my own thought to the trail above, especially since it was my comment that sparked a bit of discussion, let me caution you to not shoot the messenger. I was attempting to convey Patterson’s viewpoint, not my own. It is a viewpoint that my wife (who was also a student there – we took the same classes and were both in the M.Div. program for a while) also observed, though with more clarity as she could ‘feel’ it every time she was on campus.
I hate to think that we need to add disclaimers to comments when trying to address a situation or thought. This is not the first time I have observed the good readers of TWW turn and castigate a commenter when said commenter was merely repeating something they saw or heard someone else do or say.
okrapod wrote:
I don’t think Patterson and many of the students at SEBTS while I was there believe shepherding is more than preaching sermons on Sunday morning. There is definitely the belief among them and among the New Calvinists that a “lead pastor” preaches, write sermons, writes books, and leads conferences, and that is all they are required to do as a pastor. There’s almost the sense that preaching sermons has this miraculous sort of effect that makes people right with God. I think closer to the truth is that they view preaching as the key to being famous in their Christian celebrity-obsessed little world. I had, and still have, a huge problem with that view.
Burwell wrote:
I agree with you. I know there are quite a few people avoiding here because of that and they are not just the ones who’ve caused trouble.
@ Burwell:
I should have just said nothing, but that hit a raw nerve. I understand exactly what you were saying, and I understand that you strongly object to what Patterson said. But I do not object strongly to what Patterson said, albeit he said it too extremely by far.
I lived the life that some people think is the way women ought to do, and I did not find it to be the one true way. It is refreshing to me to hear somebody say something nice about mother (s) (ing) (hood) because in ‘my world’ the pendulum has swung in the opposite direction.
I am sorry that I offended you, but I was not accusing you of anything; I was merely disagreeing.
Burwell wrote:
I’ll bet! Yuck.
okrapod wrote:
Has it? I find that amazing, actually. I certainly have never felt as a single person with no children that everyone was somehow applauding that. It’s still very much ‘other’. Children? No. Conversation Ending Thud.
Lea wrote:
So agree. Have heard some preachers say they don’t visit the sick, infirmed, because they can’t fit it in with all their studying of the word, teaching responsibilities.
They aren’t shepherds in my opinion, all they desire to do is be in the pulpit on Sundays ( in between Sabbaticals, and conferences ) write books, be heard via radio/TV. They wouldn’t recognize a parishioner if they bumped into them on the street.
@ ishy:
That is a good point. I need to take a break. The more I hear what people are saying the more I see myself becoming more-what is the word? conservative? traditional? stuck in the mud? It makes me very uncomfortable and I am sure it makes others uncomfortable. So I am going to take a break for a while, mostly for my sake but also for everybody’s sake.
See you all later.
Mae wrote:
*so much eyerolling*
@ okrapod:
Thank you Okrapod, but I promise I was not offended. 🙂 I was trying to clarify my words as well as those I was referencing. I appreciate your candor and honesty.
okrapod wrote:
I think everybody needs a break once in awhile. It’s good for us all. I hope you find rest and peace.
Mae wrote:
https://i1.wp.com/www.nakedpastor.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/the-theologians.jpg
@ Headless Unicorn Guy:
That’s about right.
Mae wrote:
In the words of the prophet Jim Croce:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4BNwA4WfXHQ
okrapod wrote:
What kind of drag racing?
Rails? Funnies? Gassers? Fuelers? Altereds? Jets? Awful-Awfuls?
@ Headless Unicorn Guy:
That was a fun trip down memory lane.
@ Headless Unicorn Guy:
Pro Stock.
Burwell wrote:
Sometimes what happens here is one of us reads something that sets us off, sets our stomach into a knot, and we react like someone kicked us. Sometimes we shoot first and ask questions later. I’ve done it, felt ashamed, and then slinked off for weeks before I had the temerity to venture back. A lot of people have a lot of bad memories of church abuse, and reading certain words or hearing about certain things are like pulling a trigger for them–me included. Kind of a thing that’s inevitable on a forum which attracts victims of church abuse.
Well, I know I’m not supposed to judge outward appearance, but Robison’s mug shot at the beginning of this post haunts me. There’s spiritual death in his eyes and on his countenance. I repeat, someone at the church should have been onto this guy years ago.
@ Max:
And his wife.
JYJames wrote:
I guess I missed this in the article and/or comment stream. Is he married?
@ Max:
“Alexandra Robison – Seven Rivers Christian School
http://www.sevenriverscs.org/apps/pages/index.jsp?uREC_ID=663774&type=u
I am the middle of three girls married to a first born! My husband, Chad, is energetic, loving, loyal, and talented in the music department. Our son, Everett, is also …”
There’s an odd bit in Philippians where Paul urges Euodia and Syntyche to be of one mind in the Lord, and then urges his “true companion” to help both of them. He doesn’t say why they need urging; maybe they’d fallen out in some way, or maybe they wanted to start some worthwhile venture together but couldn’t agree over some point, or maybe something completely different.
Occasionally, another Wartburger has written something that has angered me. I’m not referring to the occasional drive-by trolls; their “input” isn’t important. It’s very easy to ponder the wonderfully-crafted Wikipedia rules of “assume good faith” and “assume the assumption of good faith”, but much harder when it’s me who’s been insulted. Or at least, who feel like I’ve been insulted. They may not have meant it; or, they may have said something a bit ill-considered and inappropriate, but that’s not the same as being malicious.
I appreciate the way Burwell and Okrapod have handled the conversation further up this thread. Both of them are valued regulars (if I may presume to speak for the community) whose contributions I for one find thought-provoking and profitable.
@ Max:
Hmm… I’m wary of drawing that kind of conclusion. Most people look haunted in a prison mug-shot – partly because of where they were when the picture was taken, and partly because we know were the photo was taken. It’s very hard not to “backdate” this knowledge in a subconscious attempt to erase any confirmation bias. At any rate, I don’t generally trust myself to do this.
okrapod wrote:
Okrapod
I pray
scott hendrixson wrote:
Accidently hit post. I pray that God will provide all the hugs you need. God bess you!,
Nick Bulbeck wrote:
… even when I fail to close an html tag. Sigh.
Nick Bulbeck wrote:
I’m wary of this also because it presumes you can tell what is in someone’s heart, and what bad things they are doing, just from how they look. I think that is an erroneous, and dangerous, assumption.
Nick Bulbeck wrote:
I didn’t know that was in their rule book, but I do try to do that. Particularly with new people. People who have been around…I either have gotten to know their style enough to figure out where to be offended and where not to be offended or give grace to people who I usually like! I don’t know if that’s how you’re supposed to handle things, but oh well.
Lea wrote:
I’ve no idea what happened there, but as I was trying to correct a mouse select mistake, my comment not only posted (I probably leant on return by mistake) but ended up in customs despite not having any content.
Apparently I insulted WordPress… bit ironic, really.
okrapod wrote:
It is ironic, but that is a large part of what sucked me into our former church in the first place. Everywhere else I was getting the message that I was wasting my college degree and my potential (and even something I “owed” to society?) by wanting to be a stay-at-home mother.
The pastor and elder who visited us from this church said, no, motherhood was a high calling, perhaps even the highest calling, and should be a valid choice for a woman.
When we first started attending that church, there were career women (married or unmarried) with no kids, working moms, and stay-at-home moms among the congregation. The slide into “females belong exclusively at home, under the headship of either a father or husband” took more than a decade to establish, and I attribute it in great part due to the quiet, steady working of some Doug Phillips fans behind the scenes, and to the fact that we weren’t really paying attention, just trying to “live quietly, mind our own business, and work with our hands,” among other things.
@ Law Prof:
Good point. Thanks.
Nick Bulbeck wrote:
Ah. It’s the gremlins, you know. The same ones who cause autocorrect to post some real howlers on your phone or computer.
refugee wrote:
And if the father isn’t present or interested in being the ‘head’ of a single woman?
I know some churches, like, appoint someone but that seems uber creepy.
JYJames wrote:
Reading this, after reading A’s request to pray for his wife and child, brought me to tears. That feeling of being blindsided, when finding out that someone is not who you thought them to be, maybe for years.
It is very possible, unless he gave her reason to suspect him, that she did not know. And that poor boy.
I hope the church is providing support and understanding and shoulders to cry on and hugs when needed and prayer and love. There is a tough road ahead.
@ refugee:
Here, I didn’t mean “A’s” wife and child, but the subject of the post. Sorry if there was any misunderstanding.
Lea wrote:
I know, right?
@ refugee:
p.s. While I know secular counseling is not the solution for everyone, I certainly hope the guy’s wife and child are afforded the opportunity, if they want it.
@ Lea:
If I told my dad I was supposed to be a stay at home daughter, not work, live at his house and he was supposed to direct my every move? He would think I had lost my mind (which I guess I would to do to ask that!).
refugee wrote:
Sometimes it sucks to be a trusting person, and it seems like the people least likely to lie are the most trusting.
@ refugee:
Yes, it is possible she did not suspect. I hate to be so cynical that I think everyone is covering up for these perverts.
Some perverts are very good at leading a double life, deceiving even those close to them.
Mae wrote:
IT’s hard to go wrong, being cynical.
She may have known, she may have not. Or maybe she only suspected and was told that was evil, and she should support her husband, she had no proof, yadayadayada. That stuff, combined with wanting to believe the best, can be powerful.
Lea wrote:
True but on the other hand, some spouses do know, or have an inkling.
Which is why I try to keep my cynicism under control. My first response to these horrid situations is usually, ” how could they not know?”
Yet, I have to concede after reading about how, * charming *, *charismatic*, these perverts can be at living a secret life, I too might be duped. ( especially when I was younger, naive )
In theory, the spouse has the greatest access to a person’s private life and home life.
“We have videos of Robison having virtual sex with an underage female who is not local, as well as trying to coerce young girls to show him their breasts while he masturbated on camera with them,” Prendergast said. “In addition, the defendant was secretly videoing and recording females in his restroom at his home over the course of the time that he gathered up these digital images and videos.” [Sheriff Mike Prendergast of the Citrus County Sheriff’s Office, http://on-ajc.com/2uioZVx%5D
Mae wrote:
I believe there is a difference between “[having] an inking” and knowing, which I believe was demonstrated by the incident at The Village Church – the names of those involved have escaped me for a moment and I do not feel like looking them up; let’s blame today’s heat and humidity. Given the social context that this woman was likely in, a 9Marks espousing/TGC following church where men are nigh infallible and women/wives are not allowed to question the men/their husbands, then it is possible that she could sense something was amiss but would have very little recourse to discover what it was without deviating from her the norms of her subculture.