The Latest from the Mahaney ‘Girls’ – True Beauty

"This book should be read by every Christian woman and it should be put in the hands of every young girl as soon she can understand it. These gifted authors have not only written a book; they have launched a revolution.”

R. Albert Mohler Jr. and his wife Mary

(aka "the smartest man on the planet" according to C.J. Mahaney @1:15 mark)

http://www.amazon.com/True-Beauty-Carolyn-Mahaney/dp/1433540347Amazon.com

Did you see last week's announcement over at GirlTalk about an upcoming book?  Carolyn Mahaney and her daughter Nicole have collaborated on a writing project called True Beauty.  The publisher is… You guessed it — Crossway Books — and the release date is March 31, 2014.  According to the GirlTalk post:

The book is full of the stories, questions, struggles, and comments that so many of you shared with us.

Brace yourself for the accolades that will be forthcoming from the Neo-Cals . . .

Todd Wilhelm, our friend in Dubai, has written a post calling attention to the praise that has already been lavished upon the Mahaney 'girls'. 

You may remember that Todd and his wife were members of UCCD (a 9Marks affiliated church) in Dubai.  Todd was approached about heading up the book ministry at his church, and when he informed church leaders that he could not in good conscience promote C.J. Mahaney's books the offer to lead the book ministry was withdrawn. 

In short order, Todd and his wife submitted their resignation letter to the church.  After a L-O-N-G six and a half months, they were finally removed from the church roll.  You can read about the saga here

Todd Wilhelm then began his own blog called Thou Art The Man where he focuses on a range of Christian topics.  What follows is a post we enjoyed reading last week.  Thanks for allowing us to feature it, Todd!


What Books Are The Celebrity Christians Reading? (link)

Did you ever wonder what books were in Al Mohler’s incredibly huge stack of books?

Mahaney flattering Mohler 11-15-2013

Did you ever wonder what books “crazy busy” Kevin DeYoung finds time to read?

Wayne Grudem is too busy to respond personally to emails.  His assistant does that for him.  He is also too busy to prepare new sermons for his occasional guest speaking commitments. One would expect such a busy man to manage his time wisely, this would include the books he chooses to read.  Ever wonder what books the busy Mr. Grudem finds time to read?

How about Webb Simpson, a professional golfer on the PGA tour?  Surely his schedule is quite full.  I wonder what a professional golfer with very limited free time would make the time to read.

How about Thabiti Anyabwile? He is busy jetting around the globe, writing books, preaching at conferences, making guest appearances at John Folmar’s church in Dubai and C.J. Mahaney’s church in Louisville and is also senior pastor of a 9Marks Baptist church in Grand Cayman.  Do you wonder what this busy man finds time to read?

Well, I can’t tell you all the books these super-busy celebrities read, but I can tell you one book they have all recently read.  Here it is:

Screenshot 2014-01-24 13.54.56

This sure to be “earth-shaking” book on a subject I don’t believe has ever before been  addressed is not yet even available to you and I. Unless you are a celebrity Christian or a professional golfer you will not be able to get your hands on it until March 31, 2014.  Undoubtedly this book will rank right up there with Kevin DeYoung’s “Crazy Busy” as volumes destined to be timeless Christian treasures on par with John Bunyan’s “Pilgrims Progress.”  Therefore I would urge you to immediately go to Carolyn Mahaney’s blog and pre-order your very own copy right now!

Seriously though, what is up with the combined husband/wife endorsements? (The complete page of reviews can be viewed here.)

Screenshot 2014-01-24 14.12.08

I have trouble believing the men listed above have actually read this book.  Once again this is a display of the Christian celebrity culture being utilized to sell books.  If these guys have not read the book then I have a serious problem with their integrity.  If their wives are the individuals who actually read the book, which I suspect is the case, then why not just list the names of the women?  Is it because Mary K. Mohler doesn’t make much of an impact on consumers if listed solo?  I believe you know the answer to that question.  Can we expect to start seeing the names of both Al and Mary Mohler on future endorsements of weighty theological tomes? I think not.

The whole scene is repulsive to me.  Carolyn Mahaney is attempting to make bank on the (tarnished) reputation of her celebrity husband.  The “good-ol boy” network of celebrity preachers once again demonstrate that even though C.J. Mahaney is a blackmailer and covered up sexual abuse in churches he ruled over, it will not keep them from lending their names to endorse the book that the wife of their good buddy authored, a book that in all likelihood they have not even read.  And lastly, one must wonder if a Christian publisher like Crossway has any concern whatsoever with integrity?


Amazon features the following Bio for Carolyn Mahaney (scroll down past the editorial reviews):

Carolyn Mahaney is a wife, mother, and homemaker. Having spent over thirty years as a pastor's wife, Carolyn has spoken to women in many churches and conferences. She is the author of Feminine Appeal, Girl Talk, Shopping for Time and True Beauty. She blogs with her daughters at www.girltalkhome.com, a blog focused on biblical womanhood. Carolyn and her husband, C. J., are the parents of three married daughters and one son, and the happy grandparents to twelve grandchildren.

What is missing from this bio? 

Here's a clue… Take a look at Carolyn Mahaney's Bio featured by The Gospel Coalition when she spoke at the 2012 National Women's Conference.

Carolyn Mahaney is a wife, mother, homemaker, and the author of Feminine Appeal: Seven Virtues of a Godly Wife and Mother, Girl Talk: Mother-Daughter Conversations on Biblical Womanhood (written with her oldest daughter, Nicole) and Shopping for Time: How to Do It All and Not Be Overwhelmed (written with all her daughters). During her more than 30 years as a pastor’s wife, Carolyn has spoken to women in many churches and conferences, including those of Sovereign Grace Ministries. She and her husband, C.J., have three married daughters and one 18-year-old son, Chad.

It certainly appears that Sovereign Grace Ministries has become an albatross to the wife of SGM's founder and former President. 

FYI – there are no reviews for True Beauty at this time on Amazon since the book has yet to be released, but you can be sure that Tim Challies (book reviewer extraordinaire) will be one of the first to promote it.  Look for his accolades of the Mahaney 'girls' soon…

Lydia's Corner:   Jeremiah 2:31-4:18   Colossians 1:1-17   Psalm 76:1-12   Proverbs 24:21-22

Comments

The Latest from the Mahaney ‘Girls’ – True Beauty — 247 Comments

  1. Why would anyone take seriously what this woman and her daughters have to say after everything that has happened? By his own actions, Mahaney disqualified himself from being an elder or pastor. By their own actions (or rather inaction), these women disqualified themselves from being any sort of authority on what constitutes true beauty.

  2. I would not waste my precious, God-given eyesight and brain on this kind of trash. Will it be substantially different in any way than hundreds of other books by pastor's wives, probably actually written by some paid staff person? No. The field is exhaustively filled. I would rather give the money to the neighborhood drunk in the hope that some of what ends up in his gut, as a result, is not rotgut.

  3. I have trouble believing the men listed above have actually read this book.

    Considering that they believe that women can’t teach them anything, if they read it they’re hypocrites, if they didn’t then they’re liars. Which is it?

  4. @ Jenny:

    Jenny you could learn how to submit to a criminal and enable blackmail!! PLUS…you could learn how to enable in criminal activity…that way down the road you can minister to thugs in prison! 😛

  5. I also wonder if this book will have details on how a woman submits, worships the Periclean God because she is pregnant and then returns to her man for round 2 in the bedroom…all while wearing a burka!! 😛

  6. BTW…shout out to Todd Wilhelm on his Nate Morales post. Good job Todd I love reading your blog.

    I need to post more, and I'll get an email off to you soon!! I too want justice for the crimes that were covered up in Sovereign Grace.

  7. @ JeffT:

    Wow Jeff!! I love the analysis here. On one side you have a system that teaches that women can't teach or instruct men. So if they read, review, take notes and write up a review then they are not doing their job as a woman. They are not submitting to Biblical authority. On the other hand if they are not teaching this and writing the reviews of the book…well then someone is lying.

  8. BTW…is it me or do certain pictures of CJ Mahaney make him look like Elmer Fudd? I don’t mean to degrade Mr. Fudd….my apologies to the Fuddmeister if he is offended.

  9. Is this one of those Christian books for women that simultaneously sends the messages that God values you just as you, are so don’t worry about your outer appearance, work on your inner character and loving God…

    Then the last half of the book tells you to keep your husband from straying (if you are married), or to entice a man to marry you (if you are single), you must diet, fix your hair, be skinny and resemble an air brushed 25 year old Hollywood starlet at all times, and with chapters filled with weight loss advice, low fat recipes, and hair and make up tips?

    Because there are other Christian books and blogs about “beauty” just like that. Most of them are directed at single women, but every so often, you see these shaming tips directed at married Christian women too.

  10. Lemme guess.
    It’s another book written to women on how to make themselves even smaller and more inconsequential than ever before. And there is so much beauty in being so small and insignificant, at least for women.

    I think I’ll pass.

    I’m thinking that meditating on these verses from time to time will do me a hundred thousand times more good than anything in her book.

    Proverbs 31:16 She considers a field and buys it;
    From her earnings she plants a vineyard.
    17 She girds herself with strength
    And makes her arms strong. (watch out Piper!)
    18 She senses that her gain is good;
    and
    31:25 Strength and dignity are her clothing,
    And she smiles at the future.
    26 She opens her mouth in wisdom,
    And the teaching of kindness is on her tongue. (Again, watch out Piper! Authoritative teaching from a woman where she presses on men. Oh the scandal you find in the Bible!)
    31:31 Give her the product of her hands,
    And let her works praise her in the gates.
    (aA opposed to encouraging her to bury her talents because of frail, masculine, neo-cals egos.)

    Yeah, I’m so not interested in what anyone from the neo-cal camp has to say, male or female. Their strange bubble world has nothing to do with any reality that I face.

  11. Excellent article, Todd. I wonder how CJ likes being so low on the totem pole. On the first bio, his name appears on the 2nd line from the bottom and the 2nd bio, it is on the very bottom line of the bio. Poor CJ. This must be humbling – – – this song just came to me: http://youtu.be/itb6uNL_3ag

  12. These gifted authors have not only written a book; they have launched a revolution.

    I’ve seen so many revolutions launched they need to start a “take a number” system. And all but the latest launch are now completely forgotten.

  13. Daisy wrote:

    Then the last half of the book tells you to keep your husband from straying (if you are married), or to entice a man to marry you (if you are single), you must diet, fix your hair, be skinny and resemble an air brushed 25 year old Hollywood starlet at all times, and with chapters filled with weight loss advice, low fat recipes, and hair and make up tips?

    Don’t forget the boob job.

  14. Did you ever wonder what books were in Al Mohler’s incredibly huge stack of books?

    No.

    No more than I wonder what books are in Justin Bieber’s incredibly small stack.

  15. I don’t care what the other reviewers say and frankly, I don’t even care about the content. I just need to know one thing: Is it winsome?

  16. __

    Da Ceege: “Come now Wartburg, your petty little band is no match for the dark-side of the Cashway publishing farce….Haaaaaaaaa…”

  17. “And lastly, one must wonder if a Christian publisher like Crossway has any concern whatsoever with integrity?”

    Payback for switching out all the NIV pew Bibles for the new ESVs a couple of years ago, and pushing the ESV from the pulpits? Is it just a coincidence that all those “authors” ended up with books published by Crossway?

  18. @ JeffT:

    The men had to review the book before they’d let any women read it. They had to make sure it contained the RDACD: recommended daily allowance of complementarian doctrine. Or dogma – take your pick. 😉

  19. ‘This sure to be “earth-shaking” book on a subject I don’t believe has ever before been addressed is not yet even available to you and I.’

    Kudos for perfect use of sarcasm. You could build a lovely house to trap your woman in out of the books written on this subject.

  20. @ Sergius Martin-George:

    I’m sure it’s winsome – as well as irenic, gospel-saturated, and grace-filled. In short, an eye-opening book that will enable you to read the Bible as if for the first time.

  21. Slamming the Mahaney women before the book is even published? Gosh, who knew – dryly.

  22. Being older,any books by “girls ” would not be on my reading list. When younger read a few of these type of “revolutionary ” systems and could in no way relate to their suggested lifestyles.
    Never had a mother who I could visit on Fridays, (with my sisters) have a take out lunch, while the children rested in various bedrooms. WHAT???
    These women live in a manufactured, bubble world, at our expense, if we buy their phony, sticky sweet, gospel light, nonsense. Their products are an affront, make normal women feel badly for not having (being blessed?) with such a charmed lifestyle.

  23. JeffB wrote:

    I’m sure it’s winsome – as well as irenic, gospel-saturated, and grace-filled. In short, an eye-opening book that will enable you to read the Bible as if for the first time.

    Don’t forget HUMBLE(TM).

  24. Seneca “j” Griggs wrote:

    Slamming the Mahaney women before the book is even published? Gosh, who knew – dryly.

    Wow-building up and pushing the Mahaney “girls” before they are even published…amazing….

  25. Deb

    I guess the way to Al Mohler's heart is through embarrassing flattery. "Ooooohhhhh President Mohler – you are soooo smart. We all start our day off by listening to your podcasts. It is soooooooo wonderful, soooo above us. Thank you for blessing us all sooooooo much by your obvious descending to speak at our level."

    I would think that a man of Mohler's position would find the Mahaney suck up mortifying. I guess money and flattery are the currency that speaks to certain individuals.

  26. Janey wrote:

    Speaking of Challies (in the last paragraph of this post) did you see his fawning tribute yesterday to the publishers he likes?
    http://www.challies.com/articles/a-golden-age-in-christian-publishing

    You mean like the big publishing deals for men like Driscoll? The publishing deals that are so lucrative that people hire ghostwriters? Or, you mean republishing the same book under new titles and not letting people know about it so they buy the sam thing twice?

  27. @ Jenny:
    Frankly, they should be ashamed of themselves. Child sex abuse is a horrendous problem and they spend more time talking about cleaning counters than they do caring for those who have been devastated by this issue. Back to DisneyWorld where everything is just fine…

  28. An Attorney wrote:

    Will it be substantially different in any way than hundreds of other books by pastor’s wives, probably actually written by some paid staff person? N

    Oh dear, an attorney, do you not realize that this book will “revolutionize” the view on womanhood? Dr Mohler said so. Carolyn Mahaney is leading the way to clean countertops: a desperate need in today’s cluttered lifestyles. Did you know a junk drawer is against the “rules?”

  29. How can you be truly beautiful inside if you and your husband allegedly covered up 25 years of child sexual abuse in your church and school?

    Carolyn Mahaney knows that about 1/3 of the defendants have already been reported to the authorities for child sex crimes. Two have been convicted and are in jail. One proceeded in the juvenile system. One case is ongoing now. And she claims to have True Beauty?

    For the thousands of people every day who are new to this website, here’s a quick overview of the C.J. Mahaney Sovereign Grace child molestation and cover-up lawsuit:

    + + + + +
    Know the Basics of the Sovereign Grace Ministries Child Sexual Abuse and Cover Up Allegations in 15 minutes or less

    1. ABC TV Overview + discussion of defendants who have already been convicted for other child sex crimes (4 minutes, ABC TV affiliate WJLA) – http://www.wjla.com/video/2013/05/church-sex-abuse-allegations.html

    2. ABC TV Update on the lawsuit (2 minutes, ABC TV affiliate WJLA)) – http://www.wjla.com/articles/2013/05/sovereign-grace-ministries-class-action-civil-lawsuit-involving-child-sex-abuse-88894.html

    3. Huffington Post article about the evangelical pastors who are standing up for Mahaney, the key defendant- http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/24/c-j-mahaney-scandal-evangelical-leaders-defend-pastor-accused-of-abuse-cover-up_n_3334500.html

    4. Christian Post article featuring updates from Boz Tchividjian, grandson of Billy Graham, and Janet Mefferd, Christian radio host. Discusses the surreptitious change in the statement by C. J. Mahaney supporters Al Mohler, Mark Dever, and Ligon Duncan
    http://www.christianpost.com/news/billy-grahams-grandson-responds-to-sovereign-grace-ministries-lawsuit-97590/

    + + + + + +

  30. JeffT wrote:

    Considering that they believe that women can’t teach them anything, if they read it they’re hypocrites, if they didn’t then they’re liars.

    Yes, nut Piper would say that they did not push their obvious feminine form on his so he might be able to read it if he felt comfortable.

  31. @ Seneca “j” Griggs:

    We know them by their fruit.
    The Mahaney fruit is rotten.
    If the Mahaney girls could publish something that doesn’t line up with the abundant and rotten Mahaney fruit, I’d be glad to read it. But when it is just further promotion of rotten then I’m gonna say, “We don’t your b!tter waters, we don’t need your rotten fruit.”

    (sung to the tune of “Another Brick in the Wall”
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xpxd3pZAVHI

  32. I’m sickened that the Neo-Cal elite has yet again lined up to endorse a fellow celeb’s book (or that of his family). I guess the husband’s name gives the female endorser more authority??

    Even more concerning is the fact that these Neo-Cals are unquestioningly endorsing the Mahaney girls’ brand of ‘theology’. Now, I haven’t read the book yet as it’s not released. But I have studied their blog girltalk.com very closely, and I can clearly see that their teaching is false. Their focus is always, always on failure, weakness and sin. Joy or grace is barely, if ever, mentioned. Overall the theology is at best sorely lacking; at worst, dangerous.

    Basically, it’s a salvation of works.

    Every little scenario is met with the question: ‘What is the sinful response to this? What is the Biblical response?’ And then they try to work hard to always have the correct ‘Biblical’ response to every situation.

    The ‘Biblical’ view they espouse is totally twisted. Their worldview seems to be formed around the idea of being a perfect wife and mother and beating themselves up if they ‘sin’ in the slightest way. The most fleeting moment of envy, impatience or worry is depicted as major sin – which they must ‘work through’. They also do this with their children: ask them what areas of sin are currently in their lives and spend hours helping them ‘work through’ them. It’s a concept I’ve never come across before.

    Once Nicole wrote a post berating herself because she’d sinned on a Sunday morning. Her sin? Not looking forward to (her father’s) sermon as ‘the most important event of the week’. She informed us that she had been up the night before with one of her children (the husbands never get up in the night) and was really tired. Another sin was that she had gotten up too late. And then, when the kids messed up the house after breakfast, she sighed when thinking about how she would have to spend the entire Sunday afternoon clearing up and tidying. Another sin. She was wrong to feel this way and should have been looking forward to church.

    I first started reading their blog when someone recommended it to me (ha!) and then I read all the archives. I still follow it out of morbid interest. Regular reading does not uplift. It makes one feel useless, a failure, never able to live up to their impossible ideas.

    And yet, in a strange irony, while the sisters constantly tell us in words that they are dreadful sinners, the photos they post tell a story of perfect families with perfect homes and perfect lives. It’s a strange mixture of morality and publicity.

    Ugh. Worst of all, the site is used as a marketplace to regularly flog Janelle’s photos – photos on which she superimposes quotes in fancy letters. Now this is another area of interest. It occurred to me that none of the quotes were ones I would consider hanging up in my home. Then a while ago, I realised that she never, ever uses Bible verses. It’s always some male theologian’s statement (preferably a Puritan, I imagine). Why the lack of Bible? Surely it’s the first go-to source of inspiring texts?

    This book should come with a warning.

  33. A lot of assuming going on here. The book is not rubbish just because it is written by the wife of C J Mahaney. It may or may not be any good, but until anyone has had chance to read it, this remains unknowable. I think the expression is jumping the gun.

    But, someone will say, it comes from a source not known for faithfulness and quality or being biblical etc. etc. That may be so, I don’t know, but giving an opinion on a book or anything else before it has been published is quite literally prejudice.

    This will completely undermine legitimate criticism of it once it has been published.

  34. You know what’s funny? If you’re a celebrity preacher or family member, you can write best selling books.

    And, if you’re a disgraced celebrity preacher, or family member of such, you can also write a best selling book.

    Gotta make a living. And it beats selling insurance or used cars.

    Hey, good for the Mrs. She’s bringing home the bacon. (I guess that’s OK as long as she does it submissively.)

  35. JeffB wrote:

    I’m sure it’s winsome – as well as irenic, gospel-saturated, and grace-filled. In short, an eye-opening book that will enable you to read the Bible as if for the first time.

    Jeff, you have me laughing out loud! No doubt this book will enable women to finally live out the life God intended for them, with all intentionality, fully on mission.

  36. May wrote:

    Their focus is always, always on failure, weakness and sin. Joy or grace is barely, if ever, mentioned. Overall the theology is at best sorely lacking; at worst, dangerous.
    Basically, it’s a salvation of works.

    @ Seneca “j” Griggs:

    See, Seneca. It’s b!tter waters and rotten fruit. Salvation by works and ridiculous legalism that weights down and destroys.

  37. So these Christian titans forbid a woman to teach/preach to a man sitting in a Sunday School class. Looks bad. Really bad. But it's ok to sit in the privacy of your own home and read a book written by a woman. Then write and endorsement to help insure that the book will sell millions and influence the masses. I would love to hear the explanation for this gross inconsistency.

  38. Anyone who wants an antidote to this sort of thing need look no further than Lizard Lick Towing. (Or indeed any American TV series that has been exported to Blighty.)

    Swearing, shouting, preening, threatening, and general testosterone-fuelled posturing throughout.

    The men are almost as bad, mind you.

  39. Steven wrote:

    But it’s ok to sit in the privacy of your own home and read a book written by a woman.

    Disclaimer: I’m going to be very sarcastic with this comment.

    Maybe that’s because they are not actually “learning” from the ladies who wrote it, but checking the book so no false teachings are included that may persuade other ladies to take a wrong path. You know, they probably need that male supervision to stay on track… How would they know if not?

    Just saying.

    :/

  40. Nick Bulbeck wrote:

    Anyone who wants an antidote to this sort of thing need look no further than Lizard Lick Towing. (Or indeed any American TV series that has been exported to Blighty.) Swearing, shouting, preening, threatening, and general testosterone-fuelled posturing throughout. The men are almost as bad, mind you.

    True confession. I attended high school in Wendell, NC which is just a hop, skip, and a jump from Lizzard Lick. This tiny community was the butt of many jokes when I was growing up. 

    Can't believe that show has made it all the way across the pond. Y'all must really be sneering at that 'reality show'. 🙂 It's a small world after all…

  41. dee wrote:

    I guess the way to Al Mohler’s heart is through embarrassing flattery. “Ooooohhhhh President Mohler – you are soooo smart. We all start our day off by listening to your podcasts. It is soooooooo wonderful, soooo above us. Thank you for blessing us all sooooooo much by your obvious descending to speak at our level.”

    “With a ruler, you can lay the flattery on with a trowel.”
    — Benjamin Disraeli, Prime Minister of England (Victorian era)

  42. Deb wrote:

    Y’all must really be sneering at that ‘reality show’. 🙂

    Actually, the weans love it! Not really my thing… I just keep reminding myself that it’s edited highlights.

    I had a wee look at the Wiki article. It’s the first time I’ve ever seen ironic humour on Wikipedia!

  43. Nick Bulbeck wrote:

    Deb wrote: Y’all must really be sneering at that ‘reality show’. Actually, the weans love it! Not really my thing… I just keep reminding myself that it’s edited highlights. I had a wee look at the Wiki article. It’s the first time I’ve ever seen ironic humour on Wikipedia!

    On occasion I see people around here wearing t-shirts with the Lizzard Lick Towing logo, and I do crack a smile. 🙂

  44. @ Ken:
    Carefully read the endorsements by he who Mahaney claims is the smartest man on the planet. Once you do, it will make sense. Until then, I am awaiting the revolution.

  45. Martos wrote:

    Maybe that’s because they are not actually “learning” from the ladies who wrote it, but checking the book so no false teachings are included that may persuade other ladies to take a wrong path. You know, they probably need that male supervision to stay on track… How would they know if not?

    On the other hand, is it possible to read such a book without learning a thing (negative or positive? Or perhaps reading such a book in only a supervisory capacity without learning anything is a Jedi mind trick only a ‘brilliant’ man such as Mohler can do.

  46. I imagine the book will focus on a host of things women need to be doing, which ironically, would discourage women from ever writing a book should they ever feel inclined. Interesting how these thing work.

  47. I have been doing some analysis on all this and chewing on it since last night. I predict with books like this and the forth coming “Unadjusted Gospel” that the harm being done is far deeper, sinister then what is being touched on here. On top of living in their own Disneyworld 24-7 with books like this I wonder if a constant approach and publishing of books that are all fluff is going to bring great harm to the publishing industry. Is so much crap being forced out now that the quality is so suspect that in the future more publishers may resist or decide not to take on or publish Christian books. These books are not like John Eldridge “Walking with God” or Philip Yancey’s “Disappointment with God”. They offer absolutely nothing and contribute nothing. All that is happening is publishing for the sake of publishing. The quality is crap and this taints the entire broad picture. Catholics, atheists, etc… do not publish for the sake of publishing. Certain evangelicals do…so I predict this, combined with all the plagiarism will result in an industry that will mean nothing. Just like the word “Christian” is tainted and stained. I predict “Gospel” and Christian book will be damaged goods in the long run.

  48. An Attorney wrote:

    The field is exhaustively filled. I would rather give the money to the neighborhood drunk in the hope that some of what ends up in his gut, as a result, is not rotgut.

    Your comment is seriously funny and not funny at the same time.

  49. Martos wrote:

    Steven

    Will this book be released before Valentine’s Day? I was thinking about buying a necklace but I’m sure my wife would much prefer the book that every Christian woman should read.

  50. Steven wrote:

    Martos wrote:
    Steven
    Will this book be released before Valentine’s Day? I was thinking about buying a necklace but I’m sure my wife would much prefer the book that every Christian woman should read.

    Okay, the necklace.

  51. Headless Unicorn Guy wrote:

    (by Daisy):
    [these Christian books for women about beauty say] “you must diet, fix your hair, be skinny and resemble an air brushed 25 year old Hollywood starlet at all times, and with chapters filled with weight loss advice, low fat recipes, and hair and make up tips?”

    Don’t forget the boob job.

    Oh. I thought that was implied under the “resemble an air brushed 25 year old Hollywood starlet at all times” part. 😆

    But seriously, do these Christian authors writing these articles and books about “beauty” not see they are giving contradicting messages?

    I don’t know about this book specifically, but I see this in other Christian books and articles for women about beauty.

    You can’t tell women to stop worrying about their outer beauty (because Jesus loves them just as they are), then turn around two chapters (or paragraphs) later and shame or worry them into non stop outer-beauty maintenance by telling them men are visual, so if you want one, (or want to keep the one you got), you have to exercise like a maniac and look like a sex kitten 24 / 7.

    These gender complementarians are really bad about this. They will speak out of both sides of their mouth on different topics.

    They’ll tell women, ‘Jesus loves you as you are, but your husband won’t and does not, so sign up for a gym membership now.’

    Spokespersons for gender complementarinism will tell people that biblical womanhood is not about women staying at home all the time, raising kids, and baking cookies, when they are confronted…

    But then they fill their blogs or books for women with tips about how to be a submissive wife and recipes for cookies, and how horrible secular feminism is for telling women they do not have to marry, have children, or stay at home all day.

  52. Gotta love how the Mahaney girls are so discriminating about who they talk to. They put stuff out there publically but then won’t engage in public dialogue. Heaven forbid they should be asked questions or field criticism. But when it comes to accepting money, they’ll do so from anyone. In that they certainly aren’t discriminating at all.

    Carolyn Mahaney likens herself to a “Titus 2 Woman” which she has used as a basis for a lot of her teaching material.

    I think she fits Titus as well but instead of chapter 2, I place her squarely in Titus 1, verse 11.

    Yes, I wouldn’t call Carolyn Mahaney a “Proverbs 31 Woman” or a “Titus 2 Woman.”

    I’d say she’s the perfect personification of the “Titus 1:11 Woman.”

    They must be silenced, because they are turning whole families away from the truth by their false teaching. And they do it only for money. Titus 1:11

  53. In an effort to be fair to the “Mahaney Girls”, I took a peek at some of the other books they had to offer. Amazon lets you read excerpts of their books for free…I’ve seen enough to know that if I read True Beauty, it would have me shouting at the pages as I read.

    Gems from another of their collaborative efforts, Shopping for Time, “In the end, we look to Mom, the wise sage-ess(what else do you call a female sage?)” Ummm, how about “Sage”?
    “We women take our shopping seriously.” Right, because only women track bargains. “Do you plan ahead to maximize your fruitfulness each day…?” Just, ugh.
    “Do you strategize to use your talents to bless your family and church, or do you employ them primarily for your own personal fulfillment?” So now I can’t even draw or paint as a way to relax, instead I get to go on a guilt-trip for not making it all about faaaaaamily??

    The last bit seems to sum up their entire screwed-up philosophy: “How we live now affects whether, and to what degree, we will deserve the undeserved rewards God so eagerly desires to give us.” I think I’ve read enough.

  54. Steven wrote:

    Will this book be released before Valentine’s Day? I was thinking about buying a necklace but I’m sure my wife would much prefer the book that every Christian woman should read.

    It so happens to be Lesley’s and my 21st anniversary this Thursday (30th Jan 2014, for anyone reading this from posterity).

    I have no plans to buy her this book. Actually, she wants a new rock-climbing harness.

  55. In other news, the Indonesian beef curry I made tonight was unbelievably good. I’m only sorry you couldn’t all share it.

    I hope this is helpful.

  56. Steven wrote:

    Martos wrote:
    Steven
    Will this book be released before Valentine’s Day? I was thinking about buying a necklace but I’m sure my wife would much prefer the book that every Christian woman should read.

    And don’t forget to throw in Debbi Pearl’s timeless classic, “Created to be His Help Meet.”

  57. Nick Bulbeck wrote:

    Steven wrote:
    Will this book be released before Valentine’s Day? I was thinking about buying a necklace but I’m sure my wife would much prefer the book that every Christian woman should read.
    It so happens to be Lesley’s and my 21st anniversary this Thursday (30th Jan 2014, for anyone reading this from posterity).
    I have no plans to buy her this book. Actually, she wants a new rock-climbing harness.

    Congratulations. I’m sure this book will turn into a trilogy just in time for Christmas this year. Just an idea.

  58. Nick Bulbeck wrote:

    I have no plans to buy her this book. Actually, she wants a new rock-climbing harness.

    Wrong, wrong, wrong. She will get waayyy to muscular.

  59. Toffeemama wrote:

    The last bit seems to sum up their entire screwed-up philosophy: “How we live now affects whether, and to what degree, we will deserve the undeserved rewards God so eagerly desires to give us.”

    Exactly this. Careful reading of their blog – which provides, by their own admission, the source material of their books – will show a legalistic, works-based gospel. It is one in which you are always feeling guilty for being so worthless and undeserving and always striving, yet inevitably failing, to ‘do better’ .

    It’s seriously depressing stuff.

  60. M. Joy wrote:

    And don’t forget to throw in Debbi Pearl’s timeless classic, “Created to be His Help Meet.”

    Ah, yes. I’ve had pages of the timeless classic Xeroxed and mailed to me in hopes that it would save my marriage.

  61. Nick Bulbeck wrote:

    In other news, the Indonesian beef curry I made tonight was unbelievably good. I’m only sorry you couldn’t all share it.
    I hope this is helpful.

    Actually it is Nick. Thanks

  62. Steven wrote:

    Martos wrote: Steven Will this book be released before Valentine’s Day? I was thinking about buying a necklace but I’m sure my wife would much prefer the book that every Christian woman should read.

    The release date is March 31 – just a week before T4G.

    Allow me to make a prediction…

    Attendees will be encouraged pressured to buy a copy to take home to their wives/girlfriends/daughters.  Gotta get that revolution started.  😉

  63. dee wrote:

    Seneca “j” Griggs wrote:
    Slamming the Mahaney women before the book is even published? Gosh, who knew – dryly.
    Wow-building up and pushing the Mahaney “girls” before they are even published…amazing….

    Er Dee, I don’t remember saying anything positive about the book or the authors. But I’m willing to wait and see what is actually offered. I still think the jury should wait for the evidence before they announce the date of the hanging. I guess I’m contrary that way.

  64. Nick Bulbeck wrote:

    In other news, the Indonesian beef curry I made tonight was unbelievably good. I’m only sorry you couldn’t all share it. I hope this is helpful.

    Here in North Carolina we're hoping to have snow cream for dessert.

  65. Deb wrote:

    Steven wrote:
    Martos wrote: Steven Will this book be released before Valentine’s Day? I was thinking about buying a necklace but I’m sure my wife would much prefer the book that every Christian woman should read.
    The release date is March 31 – just a week before T4G.
    Allow me to make a prediction…
    Attendees will be encouraged pressured to buy a copy to take home to their wives/girlfriends/daughters.  Gotta get that revolution started. 

    I’m sorry Deb but what is T4G? I now rely solely on TWW to keep me updated on contemporary “Christian” events. I’ve found ignorance much more blissful. T4G is catchy whatever it is. Sounds like a strain of virus or bacteria.

  66. My Tuesday ladies’ group has been going through Lies Women Believe by Nancy DeMoss. I don’t think that our leaders, at the time they picked it, realized that Nancy was not married and had no kids, yet is rather opinionated on how mothers and wives should behave.

    One of the discussion questions that was asked for one of the days was, what counsel would you give a woman who wanted more children but whose husband didn’t? I pointed out that she did not ask the opposite question: what counsel would you give a woman who didn’t want more children but whose husband did?

    In the sections talking about being wives and mothers, our group has had a LOT to say, and we don’t necessarily agree with the author!

  67. Ken wrote:

    A lot of assuming going on here. The book is not rubbish just because it is written by the wife of C J Mahaney

    If you read my comments above (one to HUG), you can see I’m not being critical of it based on the specific persons who wrote it, but rather, based on a history of articles, books, and blogs by evangelical, Baptist, fundamentalist, and Reformed Christians whose work I’ve read about feminine beauty who tend to write about the subject from a sexist and contradictory perspective.

    I’ve read similar works before, from my youth and in my adulthood, and the message to Christian women in such works is almost always:

    1. Jesus loves you just as you are, so don’t worry about your weight / looks or that American culture doesn’t like you just as you are

    2. Human males and American culture doesn’t value your or love you as you are, so you must worry about your weight / looks

    (with an obligatory chapter on make-up tips and dieting, maybe another chapter on how to make the home cozy, warm, and appealing for the man in your life, who works hard at a 9 to 5 and needs a pretty, relaxing home environment when he comes home from work)

    If this book does not contain any comments or chapters about how women may ‘pretty’ themselves just to be pretty, or to get a man’s attention, and no tips on how to diet, how to apply lip stick, mascara, and eyeliner, I will be pleasantly surprised.

  68. Toffeemama wrote:

    “Do you strategize to use your talents to bless your family and church, or do you employ them primarily for your own personal fulfillment?”

    That is hypocritical. Gender comp churches won’t permit women to use their talents and gifting, even if these women volunteer to put them to work for the church.

    Many churches won’t permit adult singles to use their skills and talents where they are interested in using them, but ask them to do the menial labor stuff (cooking, cleaning).

  69. (off topic)

    DO NOT TALK ABOUT MODERATION TRIGGERS POLICIES ETC… in comments. GBTC

    I’m assuming being in a church musical group in a church is more or less voluntary?
    (You may have to audition to be allowed in the choir / music group, but still, it’s voluntary, not obligatory?)

    Church article:
    How to Handle Late (worship/music) Team Members
    By Worship Leader | By Jon Nicol

    Elevation Church: A different kind of church Jan 28, 2014

    Another recent headline or two:
    “Elevation Church employee charged with having gun at event” /Charlotte Observer

    “Police: Elevation Church employee brings gun to school” /WCNC – Jan 27, 2014

    Mark Driscoll recently interviewed members of some professional sports team.
    Are preachers interviewing sports stars a new trend, because Furtick is also doing the same thing:

    “Elevation pastor Steven Furtick will interview Panthers WR Steve Smith” / thestate .com / Jan 2014

  70. @ Daisy:

    Just remember the misogynist’ s creed. It’s always the woman’s fault. Not pretty brought? You’re lazy, mannish, and deserve to die a lonely spinster/get abandoned by your husband. Too pretty? You’re a superficial, temptress, $l@t, and are causing men to sin by lusting/abandoning their wives.

  71. Ken wrote:

    A lot of assuming going on here. The book is not rubbish just because it is written by the wife of C J Mahaney. It may or may not be any good, but until anyone has had chance to read it, this remains unknowable. I think the expression is jumping the gun.

    You have a point, Ken. Perhaps we have jumped the gun in assuming what we’ll find in the book … based on what we found in all their other books, and on their website. But there’s an old expression I learned from my Scottish grandfather:

    Fool me once, shame on you.
    Fool me twice, shame on me.

    Many of us here have come out of the comp camp a bit singed. We bought into the notion that their way was God’s way, and we discovered otherwise. Books like this, and the treacle praise that accompanies them, are seriously triggering. There will probably be useful morsels of information in this book, but the comp sauce in which they are immersed makes them, for me at least, quite unpalatable.

  72. Toffeemama wrote:

    Do you strategize to use your talents to bless your family and church, or do you employ them primarily for your own personal fulfillment?

    And do you leverage your key relational synergies for the further strategic actualisation of a global paradigm?

  73. Deb wrote:

    Here in North Carolina we’re hoping to have snow cream for dessert.

    Enjoy!

    There’s snow on the hills here, but it’s wet, poorly bonded and generally not good.

  74. Steven wrote:

    I’m sorry Deb but what is T4G? I now rely solely on TWW to keep me updated on contemporary “Christian” events. I’ve found ignorance much more blissful. T4G is catchy whatever it is. Sounds like a strain of virus or bacteria.

    Sorry Steven. 🙁 I don't like when people use acronyms I don't recognize.

    T4G stands for "Together for the Gospel". It is the assembling of Neo-Cals in Louisville every other year at a large venue (this year the KFC Yum! Center). Attendees pay a steep fee to attend, and there is a gynormous book fair.

    You could search our categories section for previous articles we have written on T4G.

    Carolyn Mahaney's husband C.J. was one of the four men who masterminded T4G, and this will be the first time he has not addressed attendees. The other three men are Al Mohler, Mark Dever, and Ligon Duncan.

  75. But, my child, let me give you some further advice: Be careful, for writing books is endless, and much study wears you out.

  76. Seneca wrote:

    I guess I’m contrary that way.

    You are usually contrary every which way. But, for those who love all things Mahaney, hope springs eternal.

    I actually read their blog and they are always in a spin about how to be more godly and Carolyn then tells them how- Like put oatmeal in a crockpot and let it cook over night and premake all of your absolutely divine toppings and have them waiting in the morning. I am overwhelmed with their advice. They can then get up at 5 AM to do their devotionals and serve the perfect breakfast without ever breaking a sweat.

  77. Nick Bulbeck wrote:

    And do you leverage your key relational synergies for the further strategic actualisation of a global paradigm?

    Actually, I did that twice yesterday. 😉

  78. Also, I’ve been reading the “Feminine Virtues” one by Mrs. Mahaney. The preview showed a couple pages from a chapter about wives having a “loving feeling” toward husbands(notice that although the title refers to all women, she assumes all women are married). I lost it at the part where she says that negative emotions are “sin alarms”, and that if you feel angry, depressed, resentful, whatever, it’s because you are sinning.

    Because, y’know, women really need somebody to tell them to ignore their own emotions, and it’s not like they ever have anything to legitimately worry about anyway. /sarc

  79. dee wrote:

    I actually read their blog and they are always in a spin about how to be more godly and Carolyn then tells them how- Like put oatmeal in a crockpot and let it cook over night and premake all of your absolutely divine toppings and have them waiting in the morning. I am overwhelmed with their advice. They can then get up at 5 AM to do their devotionals and serve the perfect breakfast without ever breaking a sweat.

    I have some advice for Carolyn’s girls: teach your kids how to make their own breakfast. It will save them a lot of embarrassment when they get to college.

  80. Deb wrote:

    Steven wrote:
    I’m sorry Deb but what is T4G? I now rely solely on TWW to keep me updated on contemporary “Christian” events. I’ve found ignorance much more blissful. T4G is catchy whatever it is. Sounds like a strain of virus or bacteria.
    Sorry Steven. I don’t like when people use acronyms I don’t recognize.
    T4G stands for “Together for the Gospel”. It is the assembling of Neo-Cals in Louisville every other year at a large venue (this year the KFC Yum! Center). Attendees pay a steep fee to attend, and there is a gynormous book fair.
    You could search our categories section for previous articles we have written on T4G.
    Carolyn Mahaney’s husband C.J. was one of the four men who masterminded T4G, and this will be the first time he has not addressed attendees. The other three men are Al Mohler, Mark Dever, and Ligon Duncan.

    Okay so I broke my New Year’s resolution to not visit “those” sites this year. I couldn’t resist looking up T4G. So, the title of the conference is “Unashamed.” I looked at the cost to register. They SHOULD BE ASHAMED! I looked at the list of speakers and was very disappointed, again! I’m starting over with my resolution. Surely I can make it this time!

  81. Toffeemama wrote:

    women really need somebody to tell them to ignore their own emotions

    I think some men (not most of the guys who comment here!) are afraid of women’s emotions. I think a lot of those men are in the neo-cal leadership. And I think those men will have high praise for any celebrity wife’s book that will tell women that their emotions are indications of sin. This way, those guys don’t have to deal with it.

  82. Seneca wrote:

    dee wrote:

    Seneca “j” Griggs wrote:
    Slamming the Mahaney women before the book is even published? Gosh, who knew – dryly.
    Wow-building up and pushing the Mahaney “girls” before they are even published…amazing….

    Er Dee, I don’t remember saying anything positive about the book or the authors. But I’m willing to wait and see what is actually offered. I still think the jury should wait for the evidence before they announce the date of the hanging. I guess I’m contrary that way.

    You do yourself down Jimmy – you’re contrary in EVERY way. And every day’s a hanging for TWW in your opinion.

  83. Daisy wrote:

    “Elevation Church employee charged with having gun at event” /Charlotte Observer

    The employee had a concealed carry permit, but since the meeting was in a school, it’s not allowed. The gun was discovered as police were searching people for weapons because Furtick had received a death threat.

  84. Steven wrote:

    I couldn’t resist looking up T4G. So, the title of the conference is “Unashamed.” I looked at the cost to register. They SHOULD BE ASHAMED!!

    Casting my vote for Steven to win the interwebs today. 🙂

  85. Seneca wrote:

    I still think the jury should wait for the evidence before they announce the date of the hanging

    I'm not into hanging anyone. But I am into warning people that some MORE bad advice and bad doctrine is heading their way in the form of a book written by a black mailer and pedophile protector.

  86. Mara wrote:

    Seneca wrote:
    I still think the jury should wait for the evidence before they announce the date of the hanging
    I’m not into hanging anyone.
    But I am into warning people that some MORE bad advice and bad doctrine is heading their way in the form of a book written by a black mailer and pedophile protector.

    The Mahaney women are black mailers and pedophile protectors?

  87. Jenny wrote:

    Steven wrote:
    I couldn’t resist looking up T4G. So, the title of the conference is “Unashamed.” I looked at the cost to register. They SHOULD BE ASHAMED!!
    Casting my vote for Steven to win the interwebs today.

    Steven gets my vote!

  88. Steven wrote:

    Okay so I broke my New Year’s resolution to not visit “those” sites this year. I couldn’t resist looking up T4G. So, the title of the conference is “Unashamed.” I looked at the cost to register. They SHOULD BE ASHAMED! I looked at the list of speakers and was very disappointed, again! I’m starting over with my resolution. Surely I can make it this time!

    What a rogue’s gallery of plenary speakers even without ole’ CJ. And, surprise, surprise. Not. One. Woman. Speaking. Anywhere. Anytime.

  89. @ Seneca:

    Since we are making analogies, here is one.

    If you see a patch of plants and you don’t know what they are so you walk through them in shorts. Then you develop a terrible rash and come to find out, you walked through poison ivy.
    The next time you see that patch of poison ivy (or a different one), should you walk through them because the jury is still out whether or not they will produce a rash? Or should you make a wide circle around them and warn everyone you meet to do the same?
    This is what we are doing with anything Mahaney.
    Bad plant, bad fruit, source of pain and suffering. Should be avoided and warning signs set out.

  90. @ Seneca:
    Mahaney has admitted to strong arming Tomczak to get out of Dodge. There are a number of people in a lawsuit who have claimed that Mahaney, who has been named as a defendant, created a culture at SGM in which a little child was made to forgive their abuser along with a culture that claimed to tell people that it was best to handle this ‘In house.” I choose to believe the claimants. Perhaps you do not.

    The Mahaney women stood by their men. That is a problem for many people. These are the women who purport to tell us how to be “feminine.” Good night!

  91. Beakerj wrote:

    You do yourself down Jimmy – you’re contrary in EVERY way. And every day’s a hanging for TWW in your opinion.

    To Jimmy/Seneca, Cee Jay Can Do No Wrong (HUMBLY, of course).

    Jimmy/Seneca: Good Little Sock Puppet or Drooling Fanboy?

  92. JeffT wrote:

    What a rogue’s gallery of plenary speakers even without ole’ CJ. And, surprise, surprise. Not. One. Woman. Speaking. Anywhere. Anytime.

    I actually AM ASHAMED. I own quite a few books written by many of those speakers from years ago. I’m older and smarter now. But I’m also SAD. You can’t get but pennies for these used books now. I did take a box to Goodwill last week. I’m not sure what they use them for? Kindling maybe?

  93. dee wrote:

    The Mahaney women stood by their men.

    So did Tammy Faye Bakker.

    That is a problem for many people. These are the women who purport to tell us how to be “feminine.” Good night!

    I find it interesting that when Lauren Faust rebooted My Little Pony for HUB network, she developed as the “Mane Six” characters six different types of being feminine:
    * The Boss (Applejack) — take charge, very blunt “country girl”; runs a family farm/orchard.
    * The Scholar (Twilight Sparkle) — smart, well-educated, kind of a nerd; grad student in town on an internship.
    * The Nurturer (Fluttershy) — shy, timid, retiring, quiet, but with an inner strength it takes a life-or-death situation to bring out; runs the local animal-rescue service on the (dangerous) outskirts of town.
    * The Athlete (Rainbow Dash) — blunt, brash, fiercely-competitive tomboy type; local government job while trying to break into the big time on an exhibition stunt-flight team.
    * The Artist (Rarity) — hyperfeminine “classy lady” fashionista; owns her own business and like RD is trying to break into the big time in her chosen profession.
    * The Free Spirit (Pinkie Pie) — hyperactive goofball whose main goal in life is that others be happy; apprentice pastry chef and party caterer at the town bakery.
    (I’m not even starting on the fact the local ruler and god-figure — Princess Celestia — is also female.)

    Yet Cee Jay, both Douggies, and the comps — allegedly speaking for God — can only come up with one archetype of the feminine: The total doormat with possible (sexual) benefits. Either Lauren Faust is more creative than God Almighty when it comes to the feminine, or these Menagawd are so full of it the whites of their eyes are brown.

  94. @ Headless Unicorn Guy:
    My Little Ponies:FiM is one of my favorite shows for my kids(all girls) to watch. I’ve looked out for positive female role models for the last 6 years, and only have found a handful of them among children’s entertainment, especially when it comes to female leaders. It definitely helps that it’s a good quality show that I like to watch with them too.

    My husband and I were talking about the influence of that show, and the “brony” phenomenon. He expressed apprehension about men who watch the show.:
    Me: “Oh okay…Who’s your favorite pony?”
    Him: “…………Applejack.”

  95. @ Toffeemama:

    I lost it at the part where she says that negative emotions are “sin alarms”, and that if you feel angry, depressed, resentful, whatever, it’s because you are sinning.

    That’s so wrong on so many levels I don’t even know where to start.

  96. This thing about women and muscles is plumb ridiculous. When my spouse has been working out and is a little more muscular, some of those muscles contribute to my fun when we snuggle. Skinny and no muscles is not fun.

  97. Headless Unicorn Guy wrote:

    dee wrote:
    … Either Lauren Faust is more creative than God Almighty when it comes to the feminine, or these Menagawd are so full of it the whites of their eyes are brown.

    I totally agree!

  98. Toffeemama wrote:

    I lost it at the part where she says that negative emotions are “sin alarms”, and that if you feel angry, depressed, resentful, whatever, it’s because you are sinning.

    Because, y’know, women really need somebody to tell them to ignore their own emotions, and it’s not like they ever have anything to legitimately worry about anyway. /sarc

    This attitude is fairly pervasive among evangelical churches and allows for many abuses. Maby she’s depressed or resentful because her “godly” husband is abusive or a big jerk? Of course, she’s not allowed to call a spade a spade or go get help, because of the headship/submission silliness. No, she needs to examine herself and deal with her “sin”.

  99. Toffeemama wrote:

    My husband and I were talking about the influence of that show, and the “brony” phenomenon. He expressed apprehension about men who watch the show.:
    Me: “Oh okay…Who’s your favorite pony?”
    Him: “…………Applejack.”

    Mine are Fluttershy (she’s so gentle), Rarity (she’s so classy), and Twilight (she’s a nerd like me — we even have breakdowns in the same way). Outside the Mane Six, I have only one word to say: “DERP!”

    Tolkien, Lewis, and Chesterton all thought highly of fairy tales and traditional children’s stories. They mentioned that the children’s stories with staying power were the ones with all-ages appeal, and MLP:FIM definitely demonstrates all-ages appeal.

  100. Arce wrote:

    This thing about women and muscles is plumb ridiculous. When my spouse has been working out and is a little more muscular, some of those muscles contribute to my fun when we snuggle. Skinny and no muscles is not fun.

    Maybe the guy is afraid that a WOMAN might actually be stronger than him?
    That a WOMAN should never be better than him at anything?
    As in “I ALWAYS GOTTA WIN!!!!!”?

  101. Headless Unicorn Guy wrote:

    Beakerj wrote:
    You do yourself down Jimmy – you’re contrary in EVERY way. And every day’s a hanging for TWW in your opinion.
    To Jimmy/Seneca, Cee Jay Can Do No Wrong (HUMBLY, of course).
    Jimmy/Seneca: Good Little Sock Puppet or Drooling Fanboy?

    I didn’t think we were talking about CJ

  102. Let’s play nice guys 🙂

    OK, I would be sceptical too about such a book – but let’s wait for some reviews. Easy for me to say that because as a middle-aged male I’m hardly likely to want to read it, or even be part of the target market.

  103. Kolya wrote:

    Let’s play nice guys
    OK, I would be sceptical too about such a book – but let’s wait for some reviews. Easy for me to say that because as a middle-aged male I’m hardly likely to want to read it, or even be part of the target market.

    I don’t think its the book’s content that is being criticized, it’s the machine from which it came and by which it will be marketed. You might get a good meal from a bad restaurant but it’s unlikely.

  104. Deb wrote:

    T4G stands for “Together for the Gospel”

    I liked what someone commented on Wade’s blog: “Together For The Cash.” Closer to the truth. Much closer.

  105. @ Arce:

    I’m with you Arce. Mrs. Muff is a far better specimen than Muff is any day of the week and six-ways-to-Sunday. She’s smarter, better looking… what can I say?

  106. dee wrote:

    You are usually contrary every which way. But, for those who love all things Mahaney, hope springs eternal. I actually read their blog and they are always in a spin about how to be more godly and Carolyn then tells them how- Like put oatmeal in a crockpot and let it cook over night and premake all of your absolutely divine toppings and have them waiting in the morning. I am overwhelmed with their advice. They can then get up at 5 AM to do their devotionals and serve the perfect breakfast without ever breaking a sweat.

    Snort-worthy comment, Dee. BTW, I've done the oatmeal-in-a-crockpot thang in my denim jumper-feed-my-full-quiver-wholesome-food days. When I took the lid off, it looked so nasty. I wasn't one to throw away food, but I think this breakfast did not get consumed by any of the offspring.

  107. Toffeemama wrote:

    I lost it at the part where she says that negative emotions are “sin alarms”, and that if you feel angry, depressed, resentful, whatever, it’s because you are sinning.
    Because, y’know, women really need somebody to tell them to ignore their own emotions, and it’s not like they ever have anything to legitimately worry about anyway. /sarc

    Seneca wrote:

    I still think the jury should wait for the evidence before they announce the date of the hanging.

    Revisiting this.
    The Mahaney women were taught and teach that their emotions are wrong.
    This is bad fruit, Seneca. There has been MUCH bad fruit caused by this unbiblical and anti-woman doctrine.

    Here is a good post that reveals how wrong the Mahaney doctrine is and how much it hurts women. Women don’t need to read what the Mahaney women have to say. The Mahaney women need to get delivered from the ice cold doctrine that is freezing their hearts to death.

    http://www.patheos.com/blogs/christandpopculture/2014/01/beware-the-frozen-heart/

  108. Steven wrote:

    What do you have against earthworms?

    Absolutely nothing. I feed mine organic waste and they love it.
    Mahaney books and other neo-cal book qualify as waste. They are organic, not because of the message (which is dead as tombs), but because of the paper it is printed on that comes from trees.

  109. @ Kolya: I think that most of us are only too well aware of the reasons why this book is going to be pure dreck. Look at their blog and you’ll see why.

  110. Toffeemama wrote:

    I lost it at the part where she says that negative emotions are “sin alarms”, and that if you feel angry, depressed, resentful, whatever, it’s because you are sinning.

    I can’t comment on Carolyn Mahaney’s wife’s spreading of this particular fiction as I haven’t read any of her material. But the general idea is a fiction, and a dangerous and unhealthy one. And as Bunsen said above, it’s surprisingly common in the church.

    The psalmists seem to have thought differently. I think the psalms will be fairly familiar, but if I may take the liberty of throwing in just one reminder:

    How long, Lord? Will you forget me forever? How long will you hide your face from me? How long must I wrestle with my thoughts and day after day have sorrow in my heart? How long will my enemy triumph over me? Look on me and answer, Lord my God. Give light to my eyes, or I will sleep in death, and my enemy will say, “I have overcome him,” and my foes will rejoice when I fall.

    All emotions have an important function. It is not simply infantile to be afraid of them; it usually implies stunted emotional development.

    More often than not, substances that smell or taste unpleasant do so because they are poisonous. Our senses are not sinful and in need of repressing or “correcting” – they are warning us of things that are potentially dangerous and need to be handled accordingly.

    In the same way, so-called “negative” emotions are given to us in the first place to warn us that something is not right. Dismissing the “negative” emotions of church members is a primary means whereby abusive leaders create passive and compliant victims. Gothmog Duncan’s call to “pay no attention to the attacks of wounded people” played the same tune.

  111. This book will be marketed heavily. I'm ok with that; it's a book. T4G is heavily marketed; slick website and all the stuff internet marketers use to sell their goods. I'm not ok with that. Every pastor of any church of size uses the same tactics. They even have their own personal sites to sell their stuff and themselves. And they're always selling SOMETHING…. you can ALWAYS follow the $$ trail. Isaiah, Jeremiah, and Ezekiel had a word for this (in the KJV). They called it "whoredom." I've concluded that contemporary Christianity in all its many forms is like "whoredom." It's wrong but it's not going away. It's too bad we can't at least tax them (remember they ALL steal by not paying their fair taxes). Pastors and prostitutes pay for their houses with untaxed money. If you can point me to an exception I would greatly appreciate it and would be happy to amend my comments. I've been looking and found none. I actually researched the accuracy of my words in this post before submitting. I found a blog post by one of the "big boys" defending himself against the charge of whoredom. It was very wordy. Made me sick. This "whoredom machine" is producing junk books and cheesy conferences by the dozens.

    I'm still not buying this book for my wife. I can promise Mohler that "every" Christian woman WILL NOT read this book.

  112. @ Julie Anne:

    Don’t waste it. Oatmeal baths are good symptomatic treatment for certain skin conditions. Instructions on line. I’m serious here.

  113. I have a heavy heart deciding how to approach the book. Should I ask a man for permission to read it, or should a man read it to me? The decision is as weighty as my head covering.

  114. Steven wrote:

    I can promise Mohler that “every” Christian woman WILL NOT read this book.

    Perhaps we should start a list of ALL the women who won’t be reading this book and see how long it gets. One more name added to the list, subtract another woman against the “EVERY woman” list so that the EVERY woman list keeps shrinking.

    I’m another that will NOT be reading this book.
    I’m interested in another revolution, a very different revolution.
    I’m interested in the…

    Judges 5:12 “Awake, awake, Deborah;
    Awake, awake, sing a song!
    Arise, Barak, and take away your captives, O son of Abinoam

    and the…

    Proverbs 31:17 She girds herself with strength
    And makes her arms strong.

    and the:

    Romans 16:1 I commend to you our sister Phoebe, who is a deacon of the church which is at Cenchrea;

    and the:

    Romans 16:7 Greet Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen and my fellow prisoners, who are outstanding among the apostles, who also [f]were in Christ before me.

    Revolution.

    Now that’s a real revolution nothing like the convoluted and anemic thing the neo-cals wish they could spark with their frozen chosen ‘revolution’. A revolution with a place for everything and everywoman in their place.

    Sorry. Must have gotten up on the wrong side of bed this morning.

  115. Mara wrote:

    Sorry. Must have gotten up on the wrong side of bed this morning.

    Me too. TWW needs a warning on the homepage: “May cause hyperactivity and/or loss of sleep.”

    I kept waking up thinking about the t4g conference. Woke up ranting.

    Sorry about the rant.

  116. burntnorton wrote:

    And because this stuff never gets old, more “your body’s existence in my field of vision is sinful” teaching from the perverted mind of an SVC preacher. http://www.christianpost.com/news/christian-women-who-wear-clothes-outlining-shape-of-their-body-are-sensual-and-wrong-says-preacher-paul-washer-113519/
    Hey, did you know sensuality is a sin? Quick, better call Solomon.

    Christian fundamentalists are becoming the American Taliban

  117. Mara wrote:

    Perhaps we should start a list of ALL the women who won’t be reading this book and see how long it gets. One more name added to the list, subtract another woman against the “EVERY woman” list so that the EVERY woman list keeps shrinking.

    I actually plan on reading the book. I make it a habit to read things that I know I am against, so that I know exactly who I’m dealing with. It also helps to shut down arguments from supporters who haven’t actually read the material, or read it uncritically.

    I certainly won’t be paying for it though; I’ll just borrow it from the library. 🙂

  118. JeffT wrote:

    Christian fundamentalists are becoming the American Taliban

    My former husband and I have discussions quite often about women and how they dress. He claims the old “men are visual” excuse and I debunk it. I ask him if he ever noticed how “visual” women are in a handbag or clothing store, he wouldn’t use that excuse. It’s just that the objects of their focus is different. If men would stop focusing on body parts, they might actually see there’s a person inside those parts.

    It’s a pet peeve of mine…can you tell? Sorry for the rant…

  119. FYI everybody, just downloaded “Young Restless and no longer Reformed” to my Kindle last night. I’m not done yet, but I’m inhaling it at a rapid pace. So far I give it two thumbs up.

  120. @ Toffeemama:
    That’s the only way to deal with it so as to avoid criticism that is little more than gossip. You are to be highly commended, but rather you than me!

    At least I now understand Mohler’s hyperbolic ‘revolution’. That said, from what some of the blurb about it says, if it sets women free from an addiction or enslavement to outer beauty accompanied by, for want of a better term, internal ugliness, it can’t be all bad surely. Said in the spirit of Proverbs 11 : 22.

  121. Victorious wrote:

    My former husband and I have discussions quite often about women and how they dress. He claims the old “men are visual” excuse and I debunk it.

    Yes, men are visual.

    ALL primates are visual. Sight is our primary sense.

    If men would stop focusing on body parts, they might actually see there’s a person inside those parts.

    As was said of one local fanboy, “He doesn’t talk to women. He talks to their tits.”

  122. Sorry, Mahaney ladies, but I am pretty sick of hearing the word “beauty” always and only associated with being female. I will stick to just being me and because I am female I am inherently “feminine.” I don’t need coaching for that.

  123. In other news, flatulence from a 90-strong herd of cows has led to a methane explosion in a barn near Rasdorf in Germany. One cow was injured in the blast, triggered by a static electric spark.

  124. Julie Anne wrote:

    Snort-worthy comment, Dee. BTW, I’ve done the oatmeal-in-a-crockpot thang in my denim jumper-feed-my-full-quiver-wholesome-food days.

    Problem with a crock-pot overnight is that you CAN overcook it. Especially a soft starch like oatmeal or rice. It isn’t just “turn on and forget”.

    When I was on a restricted diet recovering from abdominal surgery years ago, I did a crock-pot of rice; the slow cooking overcooked and broke down the rice grains, literally turning the batch into warm starch paste.

  125. Nick Bulbeck wrote:

    In other news, flatulence from a 90-strong herd of cows has led to a methane explosion in a barn near Rasdorf in Germany. One cow was injured in the blast, triggered by a static electric spark.

    In one D&D group years ago, this was actually a tactic called “Cow Bombing”.

  126. Ken wrote:

    If it sets women free from an addiction or enslavement to outer beauty accompanied by, for want of a better term, internal ugliness, it can’t be all bad surely.

    You do know the history of how women in SGM made “observations” about other women and their manner of dress and appearance, don’t you?

    Unless there has been a “revolution” in these “girls” (I do read their website and I don’t see it), the chances of revolution are nil. Seriously, do you really think there is a possibility of Carolyn Mahaney starting a “revolution?”

    Mohler appears to be paying the Mahaney’s back for CJ’s consistent support of the “smartest man in the world.” Frankly, all of this is a pile of codswallop. It’s a game of back scratch and all to many people are playing.

    Gossip-oh good night!

  127. Nick Bulbeck wrote:

    flatulence from a 90-strong herd of cows has led to a methane explosion in a barn near Rasdorf in Germany.

    Are you familiar with the “Book of Heroic Failures?” I believe it was written in your neck of the woods. The stories are true and derived from various police reports, etc.

    I still remember one of my favorites. Apparently, a veterinarian was called to a farm to tend to a cow who was having a difficult labor. There was a power outage and the vet needed to use a lighted torch to see what was going on. He positioned himself behind the backside of the cow. As he lifted the tail, the cow passed an enormous amount of gas. It came out so strongly that the torch was turned into a blowtorch and the flames hit the barn walls and the entire barn burned down.

    From that story, I gained an enormous respect for cows and their flatulence.

  128. In further other news, just before I disappear to pick Lesley up (which some would say I did some 21 years ago), it appears that stem cells can be produced much more easily than previously thought.

    Scientists in Japan have found that exposing red blood cells to a low pH (i.e., a somewhat acidic environment) prompts them to transform into stem cells. Although this is not in itself stem cell therapy, which remains a separate topic for research, it raises the prospect that the latter might be much faster and cheaper.

  129. @ Eagle:
    Dever, Duncan, Mohler and Mahaney, oh my! I will probably avoid this book like the plague when it comes out.

  130. Headless Unicorn Guy wrote:

    Nick Bulbeck wrote: In other news, flatulence from a 90-strong herd of cows has led to a methane explosion in a barn near Rasdorf in Germany. One cow was injured in the blast, triggered by a static electric spark. In one D&D group years ago, this was actually a tactic called “Cow Bombing”.

    One can learn all sorts of things here at TWW. 😆

  131. dee wrote:

    Unless there has been a “revolution” in these “girls” (I do read their website and I don’t see it), the chances of revolution are nil. Seriously, do you really think there is a possibility of Carolyn Mahaney starting a “revolution?"

    Lest we forget that Carolyn Mahaney's clothing choices must meet the approval of her hubby C.J.

    How many wives will joyfully follow in her footsteps?

    Yep, Carolyn Mahaney is causing a revolution all right – against such ridiculous 'masculine' control.

  132. In different other news, the top header on The Wartburg Watch announces, “Wade Burleson accused by NC pastor of being a secret agent. http://tinyurl.com/ls2thrg
    He’s in good company. (True story) 25+ years ago I knew a man also accused of being a secret agent of the ebil US gubmint. He could not possibly have been paranoid, like this NC pastor, because— “they” actually WERE out to get him. “They” were the KGB. Once he was drugged and kidnapped in Austria and God provided for his escape when a busload of tourists discovered him. This just as a car carrying “diplomats” was arriving to take him away to likely execution as a spy. He was a Romanian-American who’d committed the “espionage” of smuggling Bibles. After the fall of communism, this dangerous minion of imperialism returned to Romania, undercover as a mild-mannered orphanage director and evangelist! (And the Mahaneys think its hard to remain modest, being (or having been) on the “most-wanted” list of the YRR circuit. They should try being on the “most-wanted” list of the KGB.)

  133. Mara wrote:

    Judges 5:12 “Awake, awake, Deborah;
    Awake, awake, sing a song!
    Arise, Barak, and take away your captives, O son of Abinoam

    Let me add Jael too. She was the bad-ass babe who fixed Sisera’s wagon but good. Now that’s what I call winsome!

  134. @ Dave A A:

    I have listened to that wacko pastor who is making accusations against Wade Burleson.

    I have just one query… Why does he have to live in North Carolina ??? It's so embarrassing!

  135. Chris wrote:

    FYI everybody, just downloaded “Young Restless and no longer Reformed” to my Kindle last night. I’m not done yet, but I’m inhaling it at a rapid pace. So far I give it two thumbs up.

    Thanks for alerting us about this new and exciting book – Young. Restless. No Longer Reformed.

    I see that Roger Olson has written about it (link). We will definitely have to do a book review.

  136. @ dee:

    a veterinarian was called to a farm to tend to a cow who was having a difficult labor

    I read this too fast and saw “vegetarian” instead of “veterinarian.” Which kinda put a different spin on things. 🙂 Maybe they have special qualifications in this area…?

  137. @ Headless Unicorn Guy: and lots of women are *far* more “visual” than these people will ever accept. On the whole, though, I think we process things a bit differently, but that’s highly individual and differs from person to person.

    That said, we *do* notice things about men’s bodies. There might be some women who truly don’t, but they’re (AFAIK) so few as to be almost nonexistent.

    The whole evangelical take on the Mars/Venus thing devalues normal sexuality *for women.* it makes us passive objects, not fully human with thoughts, emotions and desires of our own, and it also tries *very* heard to stifle any inclination toward professions and professional achievement.

    I grew up in the 60s and 70s, when these things were common prejudices/attitudes in society as a whole, and Im damned if i’ll go back to that! I thing the Mahaney “girls” and patriarchalists want to drag women back in the 1850s or earlier, when women had no legal status … Except as chattel, though that isn’t universally true. Still, if you start looking into the Victorian concept of “separate sphertes,” you’ll see where a lot if this bunk comes from – and why some people think Elsie Dinsmore (more like Elsie Dreadful) is a good role model. (It also speaks to tremendous insecurity on the part of the men who promote and believe these things, but that’s a whole ‘nother reply!)

    Finally, the constant refrain of “I must strive to be more (add whatever you want to finish sentence)” is death-dealing. I lived in its shadow for FAR too many years, and it really makes me angry and sad to see how it’s being pushed on younger people. Talk about a setup for chronic anxiety and depression!

    /rant

  138. Deb wrote:

    I have just one query… Why does he have to live in North Carolina ??? It’s so embarrassing!

    We have some wackos in my part of the country as well!

  139. @ Headless Unicorn Guy: you should try a good rice cooker instead, have recently been reading about how to make entire meals in a rice cooker – there’s a lot out there, in print and on the web. Should help get you or someone else started on it.

    And yes, I think anything can be overcooked in an appliance that doesn’t have precise temp controls and a really good internal thermometer…

  140. @ Deb: I think someone is spouting off plot lines from the TV show "Revolution" and slapping them on Wade (and anyone else within shouting range). Not joking – part 2 of that thing is *exactly* what's been going on in this season of the show, but with a slightly different spin. (Confession: I hate the violence on the show, but keep watching partly because I'm hoping that they will eventually get the sci-fi aspect front and center.)

    Btw, I can see why Wade has been laughing, but also understand why his wife hasn't been.

  141. @ numo:

    Oh No! A railroad track runs in front of the church I attend! In fact, last Sunday the guest preacher heard the train whistle and had a startled look on his face. It was rather funny.

    I guess I need to be concerned according to this wacko pastor who is going after Wade.  What a loon!

  142. dee wrote:

    Like put oatmeal in a crockpot and let it cook over night and premake all of your absolutely divine toppings and have them waiting in the morning.

    😯 That is too much effort, IMO.

    There is such a thing as Instant Oatmeal (you can cook it for 2 – 4 minutes in a microwave)

  143. Steven wrote:

    I don’t think its the book’s content that is being criticized,

    Oh, I'm criticizing it for its expected content, not the source. I've seen too many Christian penned books and blogs about feminine beauty that hypocritically tell women not to worry about their looks because God loves them as they are, but then, tells them they totally need to worry about their looks because men care about looks. I would expect this book to be no different. I might be wrong, but that is usually par the course for Christian books about womanly beauty. We ladies are, according to evangelical writers, supposed to both care and not care about what we look like. It's like the games Christians play with single adults: you're supposed to want to get married but not want to.

  144. numo wrote:

    @ Daisy: that kind of product is anathema to them.

    more like instant = evil

    You would probably be considered a total failure as mother/wife if you served up any “instant” food. OTH, certain things are expected/demanded instantly 😉

  145. Steven wrote:

    … They even have their own personal sites to sell their stuff and themselves. And they’re always selling SOMETHING….
    you can ALWAYS follow the $$ trail.

    Isaiah, Jeremiah, and Ezekiel had a word for this (in the KJV). They called it “whoredom.”

    I’ve concluded that contemporary Christianity in all its many forms is like “whoredom.”

    It’s wrong but it’s not going away.

    I happened to visit Kirk Cameron’s home page the other day (he has his own site). He’s an actor and a Christian.

    The front page of his personal web site is currently one huge advertisement to buy something from him (a set of DVDs, I think).

    One had to click on a “home page” link on that DVD page to get to the site’s actual home page, which was not as heavy with merchandise.

    I am not against him or any Christian selling stuff on a site to make a buck, I guess, but that was basically his home page, selling this DVD set.

    It’s the big emphasis on selling stuff that gets me.

    Someone at another site did a post about Cameron, providing the following information.

    The day after the Grammys (where a homosexual marriage ceremony was shown on television), Cameron took to his Facebook page to make a post about how the Grammys were an affront to family values, and he abruptly segued into a sales pitch in that same post, telling readers about his new movie that is for sale.

    It does make one wonder how much a person who confesses Christ is truly concerned about Christ, vs. selling stuff and making a profit.

  146. Haitch wrote:

    I have a heavy heart deciding how to approach the book. Should I ask a man for permission to read it, or should a man read it to me? The decision is as weighty as my head covering.

    In a backwards way, I think it’s kind of a compliment that the gender complementarians are assuming that women are literate at all.

    They are obviously assuming women can read, if they are marketing this book at women. 😆

  147. Ken wrote:

    if it sets women free from an addiction or enslavement to outer beauty accompanied by, for want of a better term, internal ugliness,

    I apologize for being a broken record about this, but, I’m sure the book (if it is like other Christian books about female beauty that I’ve seen before) will also contain the message that men are visual, so you (if you are female) must still be concerned about outer beauty.

  148. @ elastigirl:

    Nick Bulbeck said, “In other news, the Indonesian beef curry I made tonight was unbelievably good.”

    Elastigirl said, “Stop it.”
    ++++++++++++

    I mean, I’m very hungry tonight and have a very boring dinner & word of your Indonesian beef curry, surely simmered with garlic, ginger, and coconut milk, is more than I can bear.

  149. @ numo:

    I agree, especially with the first part of your post.

    I mentioned on previous threads that my impression of some types of denominations, churches, and Christians, is that they don’t like to think of women as being interested in sex, unless they are talking about single women specifically.

    In which case, the Christian books and sermons about dating, marriage, and relationships tells married and single men to never, ever talk to, befriend, or be alone with single women, because they are all loose.

    In sermons I’ve heard over my life, and in some articles and blogs, I’ve seen preachers cast married women as being totally uninterested in sex.

    They are always telling married ladies in sermons and articles to remember that men want and like sex. The assumption seems to be that married women don’t like sex and don’t want it, so they have to be harassed by the preacher into providing it for the spouses.

    Growing up, my female friends would gather in circles to whisper and giggle in school about which boys they thought were cute and why.

    I’ve also had that happen in my later teen years with 20-something women co-workers, and in my 30s with lady friends and co-workers in their 30s and older.

    They would talk about what body parts they found sexy in a man, some had photos of their favorite movie stars pinned to their cubicle walls, etc. Sometimes their talk could get quite raunchy.

    So it makes me want to throw up when I keep hearing this refrain from some Christians that men are visual and want sex, but women are not visual and don’t want sex.

  150. @ numo:

    It doesn’t taste bad, if you add brown sugar or maple syrup to it. 🙂 You can also get pre-flavored instant varities, like apple or cinnamon.

    Putting it in a crock pot seems like too much effort.

  151. numo wrote:

    (Confession: I hate the violence on the show, but keep watching partly because I’m hoping that they will eventually get the sci-fi aspect front and center.)

    Totally agree Numes. The writers of today (not all) just don’t have the mettle of say Rod Serling, Gene Roddenberry, Richard Matheson et. al. I’ll concede that today’s writers are very good at selling sex & violence (in the service of the sponsors who want to sell you stuff you don’t need), and yes probably really good at pushing tiles and apps around on their ‘smart’ devices, but much else? I’ll leave it at that…rant over.

  152. Daisy wrote:

    dee wrote:

    Like put oatmeal in a crockpot and let it cook over night and premake all of your absolutely divine toppings and have them waiting in the morning.

    That is too much effort, IMO.

    There is such a thing as Instant Oatmeal (you can cook it for 2 – 4 minutes in a microwave)

    Doing things the hardest way possible makes you more special. It demonstrates greater service, motivation, and discipline, which in turn makes you more deserving of blessing…gag. It’s also why some if the Gothard/Vision Forum types like to sew. Hey, going to WalMart to buy a $7 tee shirt is just too easy. They would rather spend $30 bucks in fabric and 6 hours of time to accomplish the same thing.

  153. Daisy wrote:

    selling stuff and making a profit.

    Love is free.
    The gospel is free.
    Selling love = ____________
    Selling the gospel = ____________

    I would love to be shown to be wrong…seriously.

  154. Bunsen Honeydew wrote:

    It’s also why some if the Gothard/Vision Forum types like to sew. Hey, going to WalMart to buy a $7 tee shirt is just too easy. They would rather spend $30 bucks in fabric and 6 hours of time to accomplish the same thing.

    And if your wimmenfolk are too busy grinding grain and sewing from scratch 24/7, they won’t have any time or energy to get uppity, will they?

  155. Headless Unicorn Guy wrote:

    And if your wimmenfolk are too busy grinding grain and sewing from scratch 24/7, they won’t have any time or energy to get uppity, will they?

    Throw in butter churning and surely you’ve guaranteed that these women will stay out of trouble. Because, you know, they like gossip and cause trouble like Eve did. It’s really for their own sanctification.

  156. Daisy wrote:

    I happened to visit Kirk Cameron’s home page the other day (he has his own site). He’s an actor and a Christian.

    And a real piece of work on top of that. Everything I’ve heard about his behavior on-set sounds highly-neurotic even by Hollywood standards. He shows every sign of Excessive Scrupulosity, an OCD-level terror of being contaminated by contact with Heathen(TM) and committing The Unpardonable Sin. (A trait shared with all those Puritans journaling their internal sin-sniffing.) So he separates himself from anything remotely Heathen (real or imagined) — four, five, six, seven ever-increasing degrees of separation. Slacktivist once theorized that he was an adult convert (bringing in baggage) who was catechized with “holiness” entirely in terms of “Thou Shalt Not”s.

  157. Nick Bulbeck wrote:

    Dismissing the “negative” emotions of church members is a primary means whereby abusive leaders create passive and compliant victims. Gothmog Duncan’s call to “pay no attention to the attacks of wounded people” played the same tune.

    GOTHMOG Duncan? Say what?

    The only Gothmogs I know of were a First Age Balrog and Sauron’s field commander at the siege of Minas Tirith. Maybe some Black Metal band types, too….

  158. Eagle wrote:

    BTW…is it me or do certain pictures of CJ Mahaney make him look like Elmer Fudd?

    In the stills I’ve seen, he looks more like Captain Picard than Elmer Fudd.

    Womb Tomb Swanson sill looks like a dorky high school kid, though.

    And in every picture of him behind a pulpit, Perry Noble looks terminally constipated.

  159. elastigirl wrote:

    Indonesian beef curry… with garlic, ginger, and coconut milk…

    Correct, and a bit of turmeric and cinnamon. The crucial ingredients, though, were lime (zest and juice) and plain old salt.

  160. Headless Unicorn Guy wrote:

    GOTHMOG Duncan? Say what?
    The only Gothmogs I know of were a First Age Balrog and Sauron’s field commander at the siege of Minas Tirith.

    Quite so. I always think that “Ligon” sounds more like a Tolkienesque dark creature than an actual name.

  161. dee wrote:

    You do know the history of how women in SGM made “observations” about other women and their manner of dress and appearance, don’t you?

    Anything to do with catty gossip and backstabbing teardowns?

    Mohler appears to be paying the Mahaney’s back for CJ’s consistent support of the “smartest man in the world.”

    Why do I keep thinking of a Dos Equis beer commercial?

  162. Headless Unicorn Guy wrote:

    In the stills I’ve seen, he looks more like Captain Picard than Elmer Fudd.

    I protest! CJ “Makes his wife vomit and laughs about it” Mahaney can’t possibly be compared to the wonderful Sir Patrick Stewart, except that they are both bald men.

  163. Guys, I appreciate what you’re saying. I did read one of Carolyn Mahaney’s books once! It wasn’t all bad, but I had some serious reservations about some of it.

    Not saying that it’s heresy, but some of the attitudes are a bit strange, to put it mildly.

    I also strongly disagree with this scrupulous self-checking of “sinful attitudes” and emotions, etc. There seems to be a confusion between not letting your feelings lead you into sin and the feelings themselves. At its extreme this sort of thing could be parodied like the Cybermen in Dr Who, who in the original series replaced themselves totally with machine parts and logic so as to eliminate “weakness”.

  164. In light of the recent Twilight movies and Taylor Lautner’s near-constant and highly conspicuous lack of shirt, I’m not sure how anyone can maintain with a straight face that women are not visual. Lautner certainly wasn’t taking his shirt off for the dads who were forced to see the films with their daughters.

    (Note: NOT an endorsement of Twilight on my part, just an observation about the intended audience of Jacob’s shirtlessness. I did read the first book but only to write snarky notes in the margins.)

  165. @ Daisy:
    I well remember in England a pastor saying (partly serious and part tongue-in-cheek) to the church youth group that whatever figure a girl may have now, look at her mother as prospective mother-in-law, as that is what she will look like in 20 years time! There is nothing wrong with ‘outer’ beauty, certainly no need to look dishevelled and dress like a frump, but the outer is subject to decay, whereas an inner beauty, a godly character and quiet spirit or whatever, or even just being fun and friendly, lasts for ever. The latter is far more attractive than just physical appearance, it’s the content of character that really counts.

  166. “Pride is an established conviction of one’s own paramount worth in some particular respect, while vanity is the desire of rousing such a conviction in others” Arthur Schopenhauer, 

    I think Al Mohler is perceptive enough to word an endorsement to say exactly what he knows the Mahaney’s want to hear. I also think he’s smart enough to recognize a sinking ship when he sees one. CJ was also smart enough to perceive that Mohler possessed the power to raise his fortunes, and that’s why he relocated SGM’s basecamp to Louisville, in order to ride on his coattails. And now his wife is doing the same. Good ol’ Uncle Al. But rather than help the ladies into a lifeboat after their ship has hit an iceberg, he’ll sing them a song to make them feel as if they have their whole lives ahead of them.

    But in my view this book seems an expression of someone unwilling to accept the solitude that has been forced upon her, in which she should be spending her time reflecting, repenting and seeking God. But she finds no flatterers in her solitude. So, one once used to the stage and the bright lights must come out in defiance of God’s disciple with yet another tool by which to victimize others while promoting. And who says Carolyn Mahaney isn’t a huge part of the problem, having merely served as her husband’s subject? She’s worse than he is imo.

  167. I want to add to my above comment that in releasing this book at this time, we also aren’t witnessing any sense of introspection or that Carolyn Mahaney bears any sense of responsibility. In fact, there’s the opposite sense. You get the impression that she thinks nothing is wrong, she’s done nothing wrong, and that SGM’s detractors are the ones that are wrong. She says nothing to address anything, rather she comes out with a book in order to further promote her disastrous message to women. It’s enough to give us all pause. If she won’t do any reflecting, I think we need to reflect upon what this says about HER. Frankly, I’m not feeling she’s walking in the light. She’s just putting a product to sell out there but you watch, she won’t engage in any fellowship and she’ll continue her pattern of not engaging with the public, lest of all Christians who believe she is sending an unbiblical message to women.

    But the truth is she does not care. The Mahaney’s do not care about anything they’ve done to harm or injure others. It’s not their fault. It’s your fault for buying it. That’s the mark of a false teacher: they are unconcerned with the truth and unconcerned about what others think or say. Their primary goal is making money. I know that sounds pretty blunt, but it’s true. And that’s what this is!!

  168. Daisy wrote:

    They are always telling married ladies in sermons and articles to remember that men want and like sex. The assumption seems to be that married women don’t like sex and don’t want it, so they have to be harassed by the preacher into providing it for the spouses.

    It’s quite possible that the women he is referring to are married to men for which they had very little or no sexual attraction prior to marriage. The lack of sexual attraction (of a married women to her husband)may manifest itself as they don’t like sex, etc. They married because they were looking for a man who would be a good provider, not abusive, good to the children, go to church each Sunday, etc. In other words, a good Christian. Those qualities were more important than sexual attraction. If they married the boys they thought were cute or their favorite movie star the sexual attraction would be there, but the other qualities (which are important for a marriage) may be missing. I think it is very important for a woman to marry a man for which she has a strong sexual attraction and not just because he is a good Christian.

  169. Joe wrote:

    It’s quite possible that the women he is referring to are married to men for which they had very little or no sexual attraction prior to marriage. The lack of sexual attraction (of a married women to her husband)may manifest itself as they don’t like sex, etc. They married because they were looking for a man who would be a good provider, not abusive, good to the children, go to church each Sunday, etc. In other words, a good Christian.

    Seems to me Christianese Courtship types would be more prone to this.

    As well as being the major plot motivation to every “Cheatin’ Heart” Country/Western song.

  170. Evie wrote:

    I want to add to my above comment that in releasing this book at this time, we also aren’t witnessing any sense of introspection or that Carolyn Mahaney bears any sense of responsibility. In fact, there’s the opposite sense. You get the impression that she thinks nothing is wrong, she’s done nothing wrong, and that SGM’s detractors are the ones that are wrong.

    She wipes her mouth and says “I Have Not Sinned”?

  171. @ Ken:

    Good point Ken. Beauty has its limits – if you’re not compatible it won’t take you to a successful marriage. On the other hand we have to be honest and say that most people would want to find something physically attractive in their spouse, at least during what zoologists might call the reproductive years, as sex is a physical as well as a cerebral and emotional thing. Like everything it’s a question of balance.

  172. Headless Unicorn Guy wrote:

    She wipes her mouth and says “I Have Not Sinned”?

    In extreme headship/submission, it makes her not responsible. Whatever she believes or knew, she honestly does’t feel responsible. They maintain women’s responsibility is to be obedient to “God’s order of things” and her husband answers to God. How convenient.

    I don’t know if the Mahaneys are in the extreme with that thinking, but this definitely applies a lot of complementarians.

  173. Bunsen Honeydew wrote: In extreme headship/submission, it makes her not responsible. Whatever she believes or knew, she honestly does’t feel responsible. They maintain women’s responsibility is to be obedient to “God’s order of things” and her husband answers to God. How convenient.

    I don’t know if the Mahaneys are in the extreme with that thinking, but this definitely applies a lot of complementarians.

    This really is true. Men are elevated as ‘head’ over women, and some women can use this as a subterfuge to escape direct responsibility. Like Adam they can pass the buck, “The man you gave me, he made me do it.”

    Carolyn Mahaney’s ‘complementarianism’ is more complicated than this. Having had the opportunity to observe her closely for years, I often recall thinking how lackluster her content was. She was always prepared and has the habit of sticking like glue to her notes, but what she taught lacked depth and inspiration. There’s really not much Christianity to be found in her content. And I would say this is true of her life in a general sense.

    Oh, I’m sure people would say she’s a “good person” who “works hard” and is “dedicated to her family.” But all those things take precedence over anything like, “Carolyn Mahaney is a woman whose life is characterized by her close personal relationship with Jesus Christ.” That’s not how she or others present her. And there’s a reason for that, so stay with me.

    On the surface, there’s lots of people who spend their lives doing “good things” that appear to flow from their essential “Christian character.” Even the Bible addresses this, in that some people spend their whole lives assuming all the good works they’ve done have earned them favor with God, only to discover they were never known by Him. Their works were carnal although they appeared spiritual, and Carolyn Mahaney is such a person. Her “wisdom” doesn’t come from above. It’s “earthly, sensual & demonic.” Shocking words, I know, especially when we realize that can be applied to anyone who seems so dedicated to serving the will of God when in fact they’re doing nothing of the kind. Yet, they’re surrounded by people who continuously attest to how true and good they are, but somehow it fails to deliver. And Carolyn Mahaney is this way.

    So, if she’s not a messenger of the gospel then what is she?

    This is where it’s important for us to exercise discernment, which the Holy Spirit gives us, enabling us to divide the truth and determine truth from falsehood, the gospel from a false gospel, the real Jesus from a false representation of our Lord. And when confronted with what is false, no matter how “good” it appears, the Spirit of God within identifies that for what it is: an enemy to the truth masquerading as someone walking in the light, passing off their message (usually at cost) as though it’s the truth that God’s children should walk in.

    But what Carolyn Mahaney is passing off as Christian truths for women to abide by is really nothing more than her unregenerate Mennonite ethnicity. It’s her ethnicity that she preaches. It’s her ethnicity that’s she’s conformed to. And it’s her ethnicity that she exports, and uses some inaccurately interpreted and applied Bible verses as a vehicle to sell it as though it’s the gospel truth.

    It’s her strict, conservative Mennonite upbringing (her mother and father wore the standard garb) that informs basic system of belief as opposed to the Bible. And like a lot of religion in its unregenerate form, it can appear to be the Way of Life if you adhere to its tenants. For Carolyn those tenants include:

    Modesty (especially emphasized for women in how they’re supposed to dress)

    Worldliness (which means withdrawing from interacting with outsiders and not engaging in public discourse, including disengaging from politics and not voting)

    Gender Roles (formed in response to life within an agrarian society when those of her ethnic group were mostly farmers, and women maintained the households with labor intensive chores necessary to survival).

    Limited Education & Homeschooling (Carolyn ‘s personal education doesn’t extend beyond high school, and none of her children have college degrees. Higher education is considered unnecessary, esp for women, whose education should focus primarily on homemaking and not on something that would lead a woman to live independent of the house she’s supposed to live for and maintain.)

    Pacifism (her not engaging in “worldly” discussion or debate is informed primarily by her the pacifism that’s a tenant of her ethnicity as opposed to the scriptural injunctions regarding fellowship, accountability, mutuality, and walking in unity. She’s also unable to defend her “faith” on the basis of sound doctrine. And military service? That’s a no-go.)

    Our identity is to be centered on Christ. We have been buried with him in baptism, and raised with him as new creations. He has made all things new. We are not to work out our salvation through our adherence to the tenants of a particular religion or ethnic group, and it’s anti-Christian to teach these things to others as though it’s compatible with the gospel. There’s no sanctifying power in it and that’s not where our focus should be. It doesn’t promote walking in love because it’s carnal & legalistic. We are to walk with the Lord by faith, being led by the Spirit, and not conforming ourselves to one-size-fits-all simplistic teachings which seems to promise if you obey it, you will discover God’s order and magically experience the fruits of the Spirit. But it’s a deception!

    There’s ethnicity in Christ, and no gender. The message of the gospel transcends all that because Jesus Christ does, too. Promoting ethnicity under a veiled cloak of Christianity is a neat trick of the devil. It’s exclusive and divisive in nature, and so is Carolyn Mahaney.

  174. *correction: “There’s no ethnicity in Christ, and no gender.”

    Also, not sure what happened to the blockquote around Bunsen’s quotes from her or his post I quoted. My apologies. 😐

  175. @ Evie:

    Very well said.

    Mahaney and those like her lead women to believe in “magical” Christian behavior: DO these things EXACTLY AS WE SAY and **presto** you’ll have the perfect, godly Christian marriage and family. This is a house built upon sand. It’s foundation is a woman’s desire to have the perfect-happy-shiny-smiley life. True life in Christ costs you. Plenty. Sometimes everything. It’s messy and usually involves pain and suffering. It certainly dispels all your illusions about what “being a Christian” means. That’s what Mahaney and those like her are selling: illusions.

  176. Evie wrote:

    There’s no ethnicity in Christ, and no gender. The message of the gospel transcends all that because Jesus Christ does, too. Promoting ethnicity under a veiled cloak of Christianity is a neat trick of the devil. It’s exclusive and divisive in nature, and so is Carolyn Mahaney.

    I agree. This is very good.

    The message in her book will not likely stray from the message of her life, a gender gospel which is a false gospel.

  177. Jenny wrote:

    Mahaney and those like her lead women to believe in “magical” Christian behavior: DO these things EXACTLY AS WE SAY and **presto** you’ll have the perfect, godly Christian marriage and family.

    Magic and superstition.

  178. @ Jenny:
    Yup, I agree. An illusionary form of Christianity, with the Christian part thrown in as a mere prop and it isnt primary or foundational, it only “appears” to be. I’m definitely with you!

  179. @ Mara:
    It is a false gospel! And it’s a trap for women. The money the Mahaney’s make off SGM contributuons has made all of them financially independent, and the ladies freely enjoy the luxuries others have to work for. Yet, they gladly teach other women to live lives of dependency while pretending that they are models of the financial dependency that they preach. CJ instructed all the men as heads of the families to be in charge of the household finances. Later it was discovered in Brent Detwiler’s documents that Carolyn has always been the one in charge of their money. So many women were adversely affected by that while Carolyn secretly enjoyed her autonomy. She kept that a secret just like she kept secret her Mennonite ethnicity that was the behind-the-scenes motivation for all her messages and not the bible. She’d gladly receive accolades from her husband and children for the great job she did, but she never honored her own mother and despite frequent visits, Carolyn never once honored her mother in church. She kept her a secret. She didn’t want people to know what her true identity was so she could pass off the Mennonite teachings as if she was being inspired by and led by Lord. But that’s never the impression I ever had of her – that she’s at all inspired or that she’s a follower. And I think she knows this about herself, so she must always be so carefully prepared and avoid being seriously questioned or examined. She is indeed a charlatan.

  180. @ Evie:

    Before we started blogging, I did some investigation into Carolyn Mahaney's Mennonite background and came to the same conclusion.  Here is Carolyn's daughter Nicole writing about her mom's upbringing:

    Unlikely

    To come from these humble Mennonite beginnings in rural Virginia farmland, to the virtual cusp of the information age is a momentous journey. One to be celebrated. Marveled at, really.

  181. Further insights into Carolyn Mahaney's upbringing from The Language of Biblical Womanhood:

    Carolyn writes:

    In keeping with her Mennonite background, my mother owned no jewelry except a watch. She never even wore a wedding ring.

    Although I have not received costly earthly treasures from my mom, she has given me a gift of priceless value, for she was faithful to pass on to me a legacy of biblical womanhood.

    In highlighting Carolyn's Mennonite heritage, I am not trying to be critical. I am simply pointing out that her understanding of 'modesty' and 'womanhood' has been influenced by her upbringing.

  182. @ Deb:
    Much later, after talk of Carolyn being a Mennonite began to emerge more, there were little things said here and there about it by those within the family, but always fleetingly without drawing attention to it. It was as if it were a dirty little secret.

    One was left to wonder why Carolyn gladly paraded her own children out on stage to honor her on a routine basis, but nary a word was ever spoken by Carolyn about her own mother, and the influence she had on her. It was as though all roads must begin and end with Carolyn, as though she were the Alpha and the Omega within SGM of all things pertaining to women, the genesis itself of what she taught as if she alone were the creator and the personification itself of all her ideas.

    But if Mahaney had brought her mother out on stage here and there, or at the very least shared family photographs where she was posing alongside her mother, it would have become apparent where her ideas were derived from. And it’s not as if Carolyn had no relationship with her parents. Sarasota, FL became a place the Mahaney’s routinely traveled to in order to visit and spend time with her parents.

    There’s no doubt her identity as a Mennonite was kept hidden and to the best of her ability secreted away. But there was never any denunciation made of her family or of her religious upbringing. Of course it was obvious she had broken tradition and had become an avid shopper, enjoying wearing regular clothes as opposed to the “modest” handmade dresses the Mennonite women she was raised around wore. So she exchanged her outfits for “worldly” attire, but in doing so she harangued women about their need to avoid “worldly” clothing and was obsessed with modesty (perhaps preaching on modesty made her feel less guilty about her own departure from her mother’s standard of dress, something she never discussed or mentioned). No, she was careful to honor her heritage but did so surreptitiously so that she received all the creditor for without extending any honor to her parents for having raised her to be the way she was. And CJ never mentioned Carolyn’s family identity either. The only thing he’d ever say that remotely referenced his wife’s past was to say how much he hated farms.

  183. Yes, ditto that. It’s her having kept it a secret, and then found a convenient hiding place for it under the umbrella of “complementarianism” that is disingenuous. In fact, it would seem she led her husband into it, and then her children. Yes, it would seem Carolyn is more the head of her household in the way everything reflects her values, which I have no problem with a woman doing. For them, though, it’s another layer of dishonesty: a form of godliness they imposed on others as if it were “the Gospel” and by it they were “Cross-centered.”

  184. Also, in saying "in keeping with her Mennonite background my mother owned no jewelry… she didn't even wear a wedding band" isn't even factual. Her mother didn't come out from having been a Mennonite, she WAS a Mennonite. It wasn't something she adopted out of her background, it was the ground she walked on. Carolyn's choice of words seem intended to distance Carolyn from her Mennonite background, for surely she knew there was no distance her mother had ever formed from it.

  185. Evie wrote:

    Yes, ditto that. It’s her having kept it a secret, and then found a convenient hiding place for it under the umbrella of “complementarianism” that is disingenuous. In fact, it would seem she led her husband into it, and then her children. Yes, it would seem Carolyn is more the head of her household in the way everything reflects her values, which I have no problem with a woman doing. For them, though, it’s another layer of dishonesty: a form of godliness they imposed on others as if it were “the Gospel” and by it they were “Cross-centered.”

    So we have an admitted former drug user (C.J. Mahaney) who marries a Mennonite girl (Carolyn Layman Mahaney), and they presume to tell the rest of us how to live 'biblically'?

    And, of course, we have a seminary president, Al Mohler, who holds them up as individuals to emulate…

  186. @ Evie:

    They are “…holding to a form of godliness, although they have denied its power”.

    The apostle Paul instructs us to “avoid such men as these” (2 Tim. 3:5).

    We should avoid such women as these as well. We ought not place ourselves under their teaching. Instead we ought to pray that they will understand and receive the true gospel. May they put their faith in our risen King of kings rather than trusting in their own illusions to save them.

  187. @ Jenny:
    Jenny I appreciate your sentiments, and have thought the same recently, that it’s important to pray for them because they fit the description of our enemies.

    I’ve named names because these are public figures, people who do not operate in obscurity without having sought an audience for their message. Rather, for example, Carolyn Mahaney is an individual who seeks out a public stage. Her latest book offering is evidence of that. She isn’t sharing her teachings privately to family and friends. She, along with her husband, have organized a religion, and what they teach has formed the template of that religion.

    What is so troublesome, and why I think it’s important for their messages to be analyzed and critiqued, is because they claim to be preaching Christ. This is what they claim is their constant theme: the Gospel.

    But is what they teach the Gospel? What is the fruit we’re supposed to examine? What is it they’re really selling in the name of God?

    I think if you are out there claiming to be a minister of God’s word and are appearing at conferences, authoring books, and planting churches where you claim to be a “minister’s wife,” “directing the women’s ministry” or calling yourself a “pastor” then you are automatically putting yourself in a position where your message deserves to be examined. Moreover, it would be irresponsible for Christians not to do so.

    And why is that? Because the Gospel is Public Truth. It isn’t some private revelation that people are allowed to take and turn it into something by adding their own personal twists and turns to. A true messenger handles the Word of God accurately by preaching it in the way it was intended to be preached, and delivered faithfully by those who do no harm to it’s content by turning into a means by which they profit and make financial gains from.

    And that’s what they Mahaney’s have done with the Gospel – they’ve turned it into a religion that they’ve designed themselves, and then teach it to others like it’s the one size that fits all. They’ve presumed upon God, which is why they’re always so concerned about carnal things like “pride” and “comparing ourselves to others.” When you’re walking in the truth of God’s Word, you’re walking according to the Spirit, and the Spirit and the flesh are contrary to one another. There’s no need to be constantly concerned about Pride or Making Comparisons to others because that isn’t part of the landscape you’re walking through in the first place. Those things become the focus of one’s attention only when the carnal nature is given precedence over that of the Spirit. And so much of what the Mahaney’s teach seems to originate from there: they’ll draw out a passage of scripture, mishandle it by misinterpreting it’s message, and use it to address some carnally natured problem that they assume all other Christians are struggling with on a day to day basis.

    So, rather than preaching the Good News and it resulting in a greater awareness of the power of a changed life, they take you back again and again to an presumption of your sin and of you being under the control and domination of the carnal nature. But its false teaching because it denies the full work of the Gospel and hinders people from growing and progressing. Instead it develops a sense of dependency upon their “leadership” and “authority” which you must “submit to” by constantly attending all their meetings and buying all their books.

    So, yes I agree with you Jenny, they do need our prayers as those who are alienated from God and void of the gospel. But they must also be regarded as false teachers and treated as such according to the scriptures including exposing them and warning others.

  188. Evie wrote:

    Instead it develops a sense of dependency upon their “leadership” and “authority” which you must “submit to” by constantly attending all their meetings and buying all their books.

    It has been said here, over and over, the mahaney hierarchy teaching is the opposite of what Jesus said.

    Matthew 20:25 But Jesus called them to Himself and said, “You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their great men exercise authority over them. 26 It is not this way among you, but whoever wishes to become great among you shall be your servant, 27 and whoever wishes to be first among you shall be your slave; 28 just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many.”

  189. @ Deb:
    Right, yes! The perfect mash-up. The Mennonite and the Meth Man!

    Carolyn could realize her ambitions by marrying a promising-looking preacher. And since she was a preacher’s daughter, she could provide a model family that CJ needed to help propel his message and provide a basis for his ministry. Win! Win!

    Carolyn and CJ always preached that the man should be the head and leader within the family, and claimed CJ fulfilled that role with such excellence that it proved his leadership qualifications.

    Homeschooling has always been a big thing within SGM, and if the man was the leader within the home, you’d think he’d be involved in something as important as his children’s education, right? Things like helping them with their lessons & participating in their activities?

    None of that appeared to have happened until the Mahaney’s had a son, and then CJ started showing an interest in Chad’s athletic development.

    Together with his son he launched a Boy-Talk-Style-Sports-Blog. But it seems when it comes to Ministry and Leadership, the “Girls” with their blog and new book are leading the men.

    Hmm, that’s not very submissive of Carolyn Mahaney, showing up her husband like that, stealing the limelight. Wasn’t she the one who said women should step aside and help the men be out front and lead? For shame!

    So, it was nice that Carolyn worked so hard to provide CJ with a reason he could degift other men. One time, the both of them went so far as to teach that CJ’s leadership within the family was so extensive that he inspected, for appropriateness, every piece of clothing Carolyn and the girls wore! Now that’s true CBMW leadership, men! Try measuring up to that!!

    So what is CJ doing now in his downsized role?

    We know he’s not out there on the T4G, SGM, NFI or TGC Conference Tours.

    Is he spending tons of time with the Fam? Helping to homeschool the Grands?

    It’s doubtful he’s doing any pastoring (that he said he was so anxious to return to since that, he discerned, was his real calling.)

    He says the most important hour of the week is the Hour of Preaching, so does he spend his time polishing his old messages? Laboring over new ones?

    Maybe his son-in-law SGCL Pastor Brian Chesemore gets to work with the people during the 167 hours that remain in the week outside the Golden Hour when CJ preaches.

    Or maybe CJ, too, is compiling a new book based on questions people have asked him and his son about sports at their blog?

    The “Girl Talk” blog doesn’t allow for Open Comments, so we have to take authors Carolyn and Nicole at their word when they say “True Beauty” addresses “the stories, questions, struggles, and comments that so many of you shared with us.

    (I guess all four ladies are always so busy that none of them can deal with responding to open blog comments. Or is it that none of them are able to deal with criticism?)

    Unlike Rachel Held Evans, for example, and the Open-Comments you can read at her blog, Nicole Whitacre & Carolyn Mahaney can’t prove from their No-Comments-Allowed blog that any of the conservations they claim took place in their new book actually did.

    But of course they’ll make it seem like behind the scenes they’ve received a BUNCH of correspondence from women who have emailed them seeking out their advice – ENOUGH TO WRITE A BOOK!!!

  190. @ Mara:
    Yes, I agree. And they probably thought the water was safe enough to release a book. That things were calmed down. That’s its not so choppy. That they could float a book out there and it would sail.

    Well, I’m all for hurtling a load of cannon balls at that little sucker as you can see!

  191. @ Evie:

    I appreciate your perspective on this. An insider’s view is immensely valuable and instructive. Thanks for taking the time to comment with such clarity.

    You’re right. These folks aren’t your run-of-the-mill benighted souls in need of prayer. They are hucksters using our Lord’s name to sell their own designer label false gospel. The apostle Paul warned, “Even from your own number men will arise and distort the truth in order to draw away disciples after them” (Acts 20:30). The Bible says we need to expose false teachers and warn the brethren to avoid them. You’re doing a great job of this, Evie.

  192. Evie wrote:

    Well, I’m all for hurtling a load of cannon balls at that little sucker as you can see!

    And people can think all sorts of bad things about us for doing this.
    But honestly, it’s not about being b!tter or je@lous or goss!ps.

    It’s about love.

    No, really. It is.

    First we love all those unsuspecting people who are gungho about Jesus but don’t have their discerner radar fine-tuned enough yet. They need to see that there is a reason to examine this rather than just sucking it down like it’s the pure milk of the gospel.

    Second, aparantly, as long as the Mahaneys can make it in the Christian world by lying, cblackmailing, protecting pedophiles and whatever, they will continue to do so. They need to repent. Some people simply cannot do that until they hit rock bottom.

  193. @ Mara:
    Yes Mara I agree it is about love. And when its about true love then with that there comes the experience of really hating those things that work to ruin or spoil the beauty and the perfection of that love. And so it is with one’s love for God. With that comes a hatred for evil and the kinds of things that mar the message of the Gospel.

    Some may say that calling out people by name isn’t loving, it isn’t kind. That the thing to do is to follow Matt. 18 and go to them in private. Well in this case I certainly don’t agree because we are talking about people who have taken things into their own hands and didn’t care enough in the first place to submit themselves to others within the church or the Body. They have acted independently and have continued on withou responding to Christian brothers and sisters who were excluded from the conversation in the first place. Where is the burden they bear to submit themselves to others so that there’s the necessary accountability in place, so that there’s a proven concern they have exercised to insure the that what they teach and preach safeguards the ultimate command to love one another.

    No, instead they have acted independently as though submission and following the “rules” is a one-way street – something they can easily demand of others, but bear no responsibility to follow the scriptures themselves.

    I contend Carolyn Mahaney has designed and implemented teachings for women that are unbiblical and are not in accordance with the revelation of the New Covenant delivered to us by Christ. I believe she has limited her daughters choices by impressing upon them both the need to conform to what their parents have taught, and the belief that its absolutely true. The girls have followed closely and obeyed their parents, but their submission has been made comfortable for them and their obedience rewarded. What would have happened if they had chosen their own path that was separate from that of their parents and distinct from their teachings? Would the same level of “love” and “support” have been there for them?

    So yes, speaking out against erroneous teachings that mar the truth is an expression of love. But when you’re talking about people who think they embody the truth of God’s word within their lives and within their doctrine, all they can do is tune you out and carry on as usual, pretending as though nothing is wrong. But for the Mahaney’s to pretend nothing is wrong with them is just evidence of how deceived they are! And how willing Caroly Mahaney actually is of living an “Unexamined Life,” in exactly the way she used to tell others not to do.

  194. @ Mara:
    p.s. you probably got moderated for the section of your comment in which you quoted me because it caused me to be moderated, too. So, it wasn’t you! It was me! 😛